In <MPG.212e7021a6ad86ec98a5a7@news.individual.net> ,
Conor <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote:

> In article <slrnfc8kiu.619.h@realh.co.uk>, Tony Houghton says...
>> In <MPG.212e3e3a5b0746d598a592@news.individual.net> ,
>> Conor <conor.turton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Windows costs nothing when you buy a PC. Dell charge a £50 premium over
>> > a Windows box to put Ubuntu on.
>>
>> That's not strictly true. The situation is that Linux is only available
>> on a very few models and with the base spec it is cheaper than the
>> Windows version. But if you want to upgrade it it will probably cost
>> more than a different model number with a similar spec to what you want
>> that's only available with Windows.
>>
>> > When your computer goes tits up, you're more likely to find someone you
>> > know who can fix Windows than Linux.
>>
>> But it's less likely to go tits up with Linux.
>>
> Rubbish.

What do you think is likely to go wrong?

>> > When you buy hardware, you're pretty much guaranteed it'll "just work"
>> > when you use Windows whereas in Linux, it's a bit of a lottery
>> > especially when the Linux distro authors tell you a network card is
>> > fully supported in the current version of a ditro, even going as far to
>> > recommend it, only for you to find out that it was in an older version
>> > but not the current.
>>
>> A lottery is something you have no control over. You do have control
>> over whether you buy hardware that's supported by Linux.
>
> Yes you do.
>
>> Your main
>> bugbear seems to be with networking, especially wifi.
>
> Wifi is very important for many people.

So they'd have to be a bit silly not to check they get a compatible
card if they want to use Linux.

>> A wired LAN
>> adaptor not working with Linux is quite rare and the situation you refer
>> to is a temporary bug, not a conscious decision by manufacturers to drop
>> support as is the common case with Windows drivers.
>
> So Canonnical, the makers of Ubuntu, didn't have 5 of its servers taken
> offline this week because they were attacking the others because of the
> bug ridden state they were in which was mainly caused by the fact that
> the current version of Ubuntu doesn't support the network cards that
> were on the servers?

That's not necessarily the true version of events. It seems more likely
that the exploit was from running inherently insecure software due to
negligence rather than the choice of kernel and OS base. Nowhere does it
say that the current version of Ubuntu doesn't support the cards or that
they're recommended by Ubuntu.

>> Having to use an
>> older or patched Linux kernel for a while isn't as drastic as never
>> being able to run the version of Windows you want on it.
>
> Yet it left Cannonicals servers wide open.

Not likely. Other human error did.

>> And why doesn't
>> Windows XP include network drivers for one of the most common brand of
>> chips, nForce?
>
> It isn't one of the most common. Realtek and Intel ones are by a
> massive margin. nForce chipset motherboards are found in niche market
> sectors.
>
>> You'd better have them handy on disc in case you need to
>> reinstall Windows, because you won't be able to download them until
>> they're already installed.
>
> At least you'll have them on a CD.
>
>> As for wifi, if you're adding a card, one
>> supported by Linux costs and performs much the same as one that isn't,
>> and if you're buying a laptop you'd struggle to find a reason to get
>> something other than Intel, which is no problem with Linux.
>>
> Rubbish. I think you'll find Broadcom ones installed in most modern
> laptops.

Doesn't mean it's a good reason to avoid an Intel chip. Anyway, they're
compatible with ndiswrapper.

>> Buying a Windows machine really is a lottery: whether it'll work
>> properly after you've tried to get rid of the factory-installed malware,
>> and your licence key is probably tied to a special version that can't be
>> reinstalled without said malware.
>>
> Rubbish.

I've temporarily got a laptop with wifi that won't authenticate WPA
since I removed Norton and Napster. Maybe coincidence because it
couldn't make up its mind whether it was going to work before I
uninstalled them.

Many PCs do come with versions of Windows on special installation discs
or even hidden partitions bundled with whatever extra drivers it needs -
and crap like Norton. I don't believe you can use the key with a
standard Windows disc.

--
TH * http://www.realh.co.uk