In fact, here's the last post in that thread.


klim wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:14:25 -0700, dualdflipflop
> <dualdflipflop@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> klim wrote:
>>> I'd like some advice on setting up our new satellite internet system.
>>>
>>> I need to connect 3 computers to a satellite internet modem.
>> Damn, and you got my hopes up that you were making a sweet ass
darknet going.
>>
>
> Thanks for taking time to offer such good information. I've never set
> up a network of any kind so this is quite an adventure.

Are you kidding, this is fun for me too... Playing with 802.11 stuff can
be very fun!

I'm lucky, I have a lot of friend/co-workers who are totally into
"hacking the planet" as we call it, where wifi plays a big part in. If
you have a chance, you might want to look into finding a Computer User
Group in your local area. I prefer Linux User Groups (LUG), those tend
to be the geekiest of the computer social gatherings. Computer clubs are
full of people like me who are more than willing to help... especially
if beer is involved!

>>> Computers 1 and 2 are in a building with steel siding, within 25' of
>>> one another and in two separate rooms. Computer 3 is in a separate
wood-sided building 350' away in direct
>>> line of sight.
>> Are they all in the same direction from the point of view from any
location close to where the router could or will be?
>
> The router and modem could be next to computer 1 or 2. They both will
> be 30' from the dish.

I'm sure the LNB and the modem have no problem being 30' apart. Most
are. The modem and the router is typically kept together seeming how
it's easier to do some physical troubleshooting if necessary.

>>> Place a draft-N (or would g be better?) wireless router (connected to
>>> satellite modem) next to computer 1 and connect by cat6 cable to
>>> computers 1 and 2.
>> Between draft-N and G. Personally, I'd go with G, .....
>
> That's the conclusion that I've been nearing after doing research and
> reading all the reviews I could find.
>> As for computers 1 and 2, would it be functional to place CAT-6 in
that room?
>
> Yes, router will be right next to one computer and I could run a cable
> 25' to the other.

I was under the impression that computer 1 and 2 were together. But
that's fine. 25' Cat-6 is shelf bought easily.

>>> Roof mount directional antenna above computer 1 (12' distance to roof)
>>> and aim it at the building 350' away where computer 3 is located.
>> Why above computer 1?
>
> Shortest route from the router, which will be next to computer 1, to
> the roof. From the roof, the antenna will be in direct line of sight
> to the building where computer 3 is.

Great...

>>> Questions:
>>> Which router do you suggest that will connect to an external roof
>>> antenna on the roof?
>> A 12' antenna, grounded of course, is not at all a big issue.
Assuming you know what to buy. I think Hawking sells a pre-wired antenna
cable system that would work just fine.
>
> I'll check that out

I'll link you to that later.

> An early revision of a WRT-54GS with
>> DD-WRT would be my first choice for Router.
>
> That's one that's high on my list, mainly for the fact that it has a
> detachable antenna, which makes me think it will be simple to connect
> the roof antenna cable to the router antenna jack. It seems to me that
> the WRT-54GS rated pretty low for long range signal (CNet), but I'm
> hoping the antenna will compensate for that. You think?

Well.. here's how I'd do it.

First, I'd figure out a way to grab an early revision of the WRT-54GS
(mine is a v1.1). Next I'd go to http://www.dd-wrt.com, they have a
spectacular Wiki in there and a great forum as well. The DD-WRT firmware
is basically replacing the Linksys firmware with an open source one. In
layman's terms, it takes a sixty some-odd dollar router and turns it
into a thousand dollar router. There are some really slick wireless
trick you can use in there to help you get the best possible configuration.

I'll give you an example. Today, I was doing some range testing on some
antennas I built out of cookie cans (4"x7"), placed one on my roof,
drove up the hill from where I live, had a simple laptop card with a
pigtail antenna adapter hooked up to an identical cookie can antenna on
a tripod pointing down to my antenna which I set up to point to the
location I was at, and managed to get a decent signal. I calculated the
distance on Google Earth to be approximately 1.24 miles. The settings on
DD-WRT was simple. I just made the wireless signal transmit and
receive on the same antenna jack (right one in this case, since it's
soldered on the board) and turned up the power to 100 mW from the
default which is around 24 mW I think... Anyhow. As you can see, 1.24
miles is much more than 350'.

Pros of doing it this way:
-- You can show off to your buddies your uber wifi hackery skills.
-- You have more options in DD-WRT than you do in any other router.
-- The range will be well over what you require.
-- Giving you total control over your network's potential capability.

Cons of doing it this way:
-- Harder to setup, DD-WRT will require some networking knowledge.
-- Total overkill, 350' is not all that far even with a wood wall.
-- Costs a little more in parts.
-- DD-WRT compatible routers are not easy to find.

The most professional way (and off the shelf) of doing this is getting a
good router, doesn't really matter if it's a Linksys, just so long as it
has at least one antenna jack. Acquire a mast, similar to one you'd find
a VHF/UHF television antenna stuck to. Run a cable with the grounding
adapter (I'll link you to it later), to a pre-built omni directional
antenna with at least 9dBi gain. A directional antenna is almost
overkill for 350' and limits mobility. The omni should not be as high as
you can go, just something that gives it line of sight, or close.

This really isn't an exact science. It'll be hard to screw it up. I promise.

>>> Which directional antenna do you suggest?
>> I would go with a helical on this one. It is directional, but if you
protect it correctly for outdoor use (birds like to land on antennas and
ruin them) it's quite a nice antenna. A backfire antenna is also a good
choice. You can buy pre-made ones of either or be like me. The helical
and backfire don't suffer as much from the directional-ness of a
parabolic, and cantennas are not the best for static use in my opinion.
A properly enclosed biquad would be another choice for me because its
got more coverage area, hence making it easier to set up, but I don't
know of any commercial biquads.
>>
>> If you're a DIY-kinda-guy: http://www.dxzone.com/catalog/Antennas/WiFi/
>
> Great site! Thanks for the lead.

Mind you, getting a pre-built antenna will yield the same or similar
results due to the proximity of your third computer. Just be sure it's
weather proof.

>>> What other product recommendations or setup ideas do you have to make
>>> this network work?
>> That's pretty much it. Just make sure you don't spend more time
trying to be cheap and get the "best deals". Typically, that ends up
where you save a little money up front, get bad gear, and have to
replace it later when it dies. Make sure you do your homework before
slapping down plastic or paper.
>
> Homework in progress.

This is a first... most people I talk to, don't really care to do the
necessary reading and whatnot.

>> Ground your antenna.
>
> Luckily, I have an 8' copper rod in the ground next to the building
> left over from an electric fence charger ground.
>
> Do you know of a surge protector I could put between the antenna and
> the router?

This is a good example of what I was talking about. Just be sure you can
adapt your cable to utilize this equipment.

http://tinyurl.com/2yyzdu

> One other question:
> Computer 3 will be inside a wood sided building 350 feet from the roof
> antenna. I am thinking of using a USB Wireless G adapter on that
> computer (I've read they actually pick up better than internal cards).
> What do you think the chances are of picking up a good signal with
> that setup.

This is a good question to ask. Depending on whether the computer is a
desktop with a free PCI slot which you can open the case and install
yourself, or a laptop which you can get a PCMCIA/Cardbus, or either
which could use a USB dongle; results may vary.

1) Desktop with a free PCI slot. This requires you understand how to
upgrade a component of your computer. If you feel comfortable doing
this, this would be my first choice. There is a card called the Netgear
WG311T which is an absolutely outstanding card hardware and driver wise,
(and supports higher speeds if bought with a 108 "turbo" whatever it's
called Netgear router. It's got an SMA-RP connector which makes life easy.

2) Laptops are tricky. Typically they come with an onboard m-PCI card
which has a built in antenna which I helped someone just today who
wanted to adapt a cable from that (in this newsgroup as well). PCMCI
cards with an external jack is hard to come by. Most of which are not
802.11G. This is a poor choice but sometimes necessary.

3) USB dongles are kinda hit or miss in my opinion. First of all, there
are some companies like Hawking and Edimax who make USB 802.11G adapters
with SMA-RP connectors, and yield decent results. The drivers are stable
in Windows, and Mac/Linux machines can run them as well with little mess
usually.

Now... I have all three of these situations as you may have guessed. My
first choice is clear with the Netgear WG311T PCI card. My other choice
if you must go USB would be with the Edimax EW-7318USg (Hawking has an
equivalent, which looks identical but white instead of black).

As far as an antenna on this end. If the stock antenna does not work, I
would recommend you try a higher gain omni before trying a directional.
There are a lot of desktop stationary omni antennas. I wouldn't keep the
antenna behind the machine. Raise it as high as you can ascetically,
there shouldn't be a need to make an additional reach for that last bit
of hight. The base station (router antenna) is more important in this
case it seems.

> Thanks again for your excellent comments.

My pleasure. I hope this works out for you in the end. If not, let me
know right away so return policies are not voided.

Make sure when you do get any equipment, you do as much common sense
experimentation as possible. Try out locations for antennas to see if
you can get significant signal gain. Play around.

Hell, I'm just typing way too much helping you answer a question which I
could have summed up in a paragraph and done about the same job. But for
you, because you seem interested in learning, which I admire, I figure
what the hell. Right? Plus, I'm bored... and I'm off work today.

Like I said, this is not an exact science. Your needs are not all that
extreme... almost basic enough to the point where you don't have to do
all this mounting antenna on roof action and whatnot just to get a
signal to propagate to the third computer. But you sound like the kind
of person who is somewhat willing to go all out to get the best quality
the first time around.