On 31 Aug 2005 18:40:06 -0400, Captin
<UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:

>One thing that held me back for years dealing with my business’s
>network of computers were Geeks. I was convinced just by listening to
>these Proffessionals that they were worth every penny to keep the
>family businesses network of computers up to scratch.(Logistics and
>Transport)

yes/no/maybe

There are good and bad IT professionals, just like in any
other line of work, and just like any other profession, they
are _people_ who have their own personalities, qualities,
faults, egos, etc, etc, etc.


>It seemed in a two minute conversation I would grasp 50% of the facts
>if I was lucky and simply reach for the check book and send them on
>their way.
> I found out the hard way that the average tech knows all the easy
>things but when push comes to shove data recovery is beyond many of
>them . The average computer store tends to diagnose a hard drive as no
>good, install a new one, install Windows for you and return your
>machine.

Well, if you go to your family doctor with a brain tumor, do
you expect him to pull out a scalpel and remove it right
there or send you to a specialist? Not only are IT pros
having to specialize more and more, the body of knowledge is
continually growing at an alarming rate. If you find a tech
that hesitates at recovering your data, you might be better
off than finding one that "assumes" they can and goes off
half cocked, doing more harm than good which ultimately
prevents anyone else from recovering the data. This can
vary of course, but consider what a computer store employee
does for the most part:

They sell and install parts. Diagnostics are not their
forte and rightly so, as a good diagnostician is worth over
$50 per hour and some problems take hours. How many people
would pay $500 to get a 3 year old (if not older) box up and
running again? Even when data is valuable, many have to
pause and think about whether results-based-fees are
worthwhile for data recovery. Money is always an issue.


>Now 95% of the time thats proably OK...But the thing that really
>cheesed me off were the Geeks that waffled on doing nothing more than
>trying to prove to the world how smart they are yet still offering no
>solution to the problem.

.... has nothing to do with being a geek though, ever watch
TV? It is a national pastime.

>When a hard drive fails theres more important
>issues than being told by a Geek he prefers to call the Controller
>board a daughter board or logic board. Further when Windows 2000 came
>about I was happy because there was less for me to do installing
>drivers etc.
>I did not care that the true computer nut was staying with Windows 98
>and he thought he was big and tough because he could install his own
>drivers etc.

<geek mode on>

A geek would've preferred Win2k AND installed the drivers
themselves. Windows bundled drivers are old bug-ridden
junk. Manufacturers release newer drivers for this very
reason, to be rid of the bugs in the prior versions. MS
also strips some features out of drivers because it aligns
with their questionable agenda, and other times to simple
cut down on the size of the driver files on the CD.

You can go to windowsupdate, and sometimes find newer
drivers... and should, if you have an aversion to
downloading them yourself. However, MS offers the same
drivers as the manufacturers, except they may still lack
some features.

>The culture seems to be sometimes that some of these IT people don’t
>know how to communicate outside of their cocoon. I mean it’s fine to
>communicate within your proffession but at the end of the day they
>don’t pay the bills.

If you went to your doctor and tried to have an intelligent
converstion with her/him about liver enzymes, would it
surprise you that they started using language, terms you
didn't know? Of course there will be a communication
problem.

"They don't pay the bills" is a pointless argument. It is
not their job to educate you. They are there to do a job,
period... just like anyone else. If the job they're doing
requires more communication skills than your present IT guys
have, then by all means let your recruiter know what kind of
qualifications you're looking for, and make issue of such
things in pre-employment interviews. However, good techs
are harder to find than slick talkers so given the choice,
you might need to emphasize ability at IT over communication
skills, may have to weigh what kind of techs you'll get for
any given salary and job position.

What often happens is that an IT pro comes across person
after person after person who has a PC, running windows, who
can press the on botton, click "OK" or "Cancel", and run
some applications that've been around for years- then
suddenly "some" of these people feel they are computer
experts. Indeed, some of them may be qualified for IT work
themselves, but others would be better off forgetting
everything they "think" they know. Of course there are a
lot of users in the middle of these two extremes, and a lot
of techs inbetween too.

I'll probably never forget what one tech told me:

"Windows 98 cannot use over 128MB of memory. I know this
because it was taught at a school that cost $6000".

Education- always nice, sometimes crucial
Experience- trumps education
Scientific methodolgy- trumps both



>It’s the average Joe that often doesn’t have the
>knowledge and the reason he hired the Geek in the first place is to do
>the job. If a Geek is not going to communicate and be easily
>understood then why have them.

Err, how about to do that job? That was what he was hired
for, right?

Who knows, maybe you just have some bad techs, or maybe they
get hounded and try to avoid explaining everything, or maybe
they're backlogged and just avoid spending a lot of time on
non-PC tasks... or maybe they're axe-murderers and just
don't like people. IT folks are as quirky as anybody else.
Who knows, they might think you don't communicate well.


> A classic is on forums when the average person posts and the Geeks
>ego gets in the way of things. The person with the problem may not be
>familiar with technical terms so the obvious thing to do with 99% of
>people is relay it in a language everyone can understand.

1) This is a usenet technical forum. Along with that comes
many conventions that help to keep things working smoothly,
more often than not. Technical terms are useful... is the
whole reason they exist. The person with the problems may
not even know exactly what the problem is and may be
guessing, or may have already gotten bits and pieces of
(mixed accuracy) information already and weeding through it
all can be essential. "Language everyone can understand" is
a nice idea, but put into practice we are dealing with
(almost, at least from a consumer perspective)
state-of-the-art, highly evolving electronic hardware and to
use common terms everyone could understand, would require
everyone have some sort of basic technical vocabulary.

The above is pretty vague, it has to be taken on a
case-by-case basis. There may be reasons for using certain
vocabulary that are not evident to some, are evident to
others, and could be useful. Perhaps an IT guy realizes why
the difference is important and to decribe something on
generic terms is more difficult. It is hard to "unlearn"
what one knows and even harder to guess at what level of
competence someone else may have.


> However, and I don’t think it’s rare at all, some Geeks can’t do what
>99% of the population do when it cdomes to communicating.
>

I think you're exaggerating, but if you're not, then why did
you hire them? Certainly this was semi-apparent during an
interview?

I also think you're assuming they are supposed to be trying
to describe intricate details of things to common people.
That's not their job- that's a _teacher's_ job. If you
find them ineffective at conveying essential information,
then perhaps they need a sit-down and reassessment of the
job priorities. That's at work though, here on the forums
where it's all donated time, anything goes.... you get every
last nickel's worth.


>I’d love to start this thread and have people add to it. I don’t know
>if the Geeks will listen , but never say never

It you just want to vent about speaking a different language
than IT geeks, this probably isn't the right forum for it,
as it IS a technical (albeit general topic) computer
hardware forum. I suppose when grandma calls the entire
system the "CPU", we could just run with it in the
conversation but sooner or later it'd come back problematic.

I don't recall any threads here where a *geek* used
technical language, where someone wrote that they didn't
understand and could anyone elaborate on something, and
there wasn't further elaboration. If you find that
happening, then ask for elaboration or provide some,
whichever applies at the time. It is to be expected that if
someone didn't know a given topic, solution, (whatever),
then of course there will be some new information, possibly
concepts and terms unfamiliar to them... if not, they'd
already "know". That's what learning is.

The ideal tech guy/gal is not one who carries on great
conversations, they're one who you never notice because
they've made your IT experience "invisible", something you
never have to think about. Maybe if you find it necessary
to converse with them a lot then they weren't doing those
technical things as they should've either... or maybe they
spend too much time trying to deal with people who are less
help than they think they are... every situation varies.

In general, you seem to be stereotyping a large group of
people, but ignoring that many non-techs don't have such
great communication skills either. Those who communicate
the most often, on topics with the most common knowledge
between those having the conversation, will of course find
it easier to communicate on those topics.