"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A586A32A4074noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...

>> Yeah, the VoIP forums at DSLR are pretty down on Skype- it's per
>> minute rate is pretty high vs. other VoIPs, and it's non-standard, so
>> it doesn't work with the SIP-compliant ATAs, Asterisk servers, etc.
>> that the DSLR guys typically play with. The hard-core VoIPers seem to
>> see Skype as the "AOL" of VoIP.
>
> Free is too high?? $US36/YEAR is too high? What VoIP company will let
> me call USA/Canada incl AK, HI, and PR for $3/month and no other
> charges? This also includes calling FROM:


MagicJack offers unlimited incoming/outgoing for $20 year. Enjoy it while
it lasts, of course- neither their price nor Skype's are sustainable
indefinitely You can't sell something under cost and make it up with
volume! Skype still hasn't figured out how to make money at VoIP despite
giving away the farm. I don't know how true it is, but the last figure I
read on line was that they haven't averaged a nickel per user per month yet.
Puts that cellphone $50 ARPU in perspective!

As to overpriced, I'm talking about the casual pay-as-you-go per-minute
rate- not the unlimited bucket. It's a bit higher than most VoIPs, and has
that ridiculous "connection fee" no one else charges.

> Can you call home from New Zealand and talk for an hour for only a
> connection fee?

With a MagicJack you could do it without a connection fee! But MJ has the
same problem as Skype- it's non-standard. (Even worse- it IS SIP-standard
under the hood, but they cripple it intentionally to force you to use their
ad-supported software on a PC rather than generic SIP equipment.)


> Skype Pro is one helluva bargain, even if you don't consider all the
> amazing free services of skype-to-skype with full motion video and the
> other toys.

Gizmo offers all the same things (P2P, Video, etc.) amongst other Gizmo
project users AND they're SIP-compliant as well, so you could use them
without a PC or proprietary WiFi phone. (And their video calling works on
your N800 as well!) They, however, don't offer the cheap unlimited buckets
like Skype. Apparently they don't have eBay's money to squander while
looking for a successful business model! ;-)


> What they DON'T like is Skype's competition. What they DON'T like is
> Skype's security the "standard", off-the-shelf, server-based VoIP
> providers don't have.

It's a closed proprietary system- that doesn't make it "bad"- but that's
what makes it the "AOL" of VoIP- a commercial attempt at usurping and
replacing a perfectly good standard protocol with a closed one for
additional profit- I.e. "Skype certified" accessories. SIP-compliant
providers allow generic third party adapters and phones to be used- you have
to buy special "Skype certified" WiFi phones to use Skype without a PC.

Again, there's nothing wrong with that, but there was nothing inherently
wrong with AOL's non-standard e-mail and usenet protocols either if you were
a good boy and used their proprietary software, either.

> Skype used to be the VoIP joke....but no more. Considering all the
> freebies Skype doesn't charge for and the really cheap in-country phone
> services, $US0.021/min is really cheap to overseas.

Comparted to AT&T, sure. Compared to the $0.011 some other VoIPs charge
it's 100% higher!

> I didn't spend $10
> all year over the Skype Pro fee because my overseas calls are mostly to
> Skypers, which is always free.

Skype is fine for Skype-to-Skype. It's just not VoIP- it's more of like a
proprietary IM program with audio/video capability.

> Skype doesn't need to operate with "the SIP-compliant ATAs, Asterisk
> servers, etc. It's distributed system functions quite well on its own.

In your opinion. I don't want to leave a $600 PC running to get a dial tone
on a $9 cordless phone. Unlike you, I don't live alone. My family uses
all of the half-dozen phones we have squirreled around the house. That
either means $700 worth of Belkin WiFi phones, or dedicating a PC as my
"home phone server"! With SIP VoIP, a $35 ATA plugged into a phone jack can
feed dialtone to the entire house.


> http://www.skype.com/allfeatures/skypepro/
> They even gave me a 60% discount on my two Skype In POTS numbers in
> Charleston and London, this year. I don't see how they do it. It's SO
> cheap!

Because they're selling it under cost! Interconnect fees to US landlines
run $0.01 (metro) to $0.05 (VERY rural)/minute. Incoming also costs you if
you don't own your number pool (and Skype doesn't.) DID rentals run
$1-3/month wholesale depending on the desirability of the area code/prefix.
You CAN'T run a VoIP business with $20-60/year unlimited and make money,
unless it comes from elsewhere- like MagicJack's supposed ad revenue. Now
Skype might do it as a loss leader for eBay's integrated Skype "buyer/seller
connection" services. eBay might figure Skype's low rates will attract more
Skype users and facilitate more eBay transactions, etc. but that's a pretty
thin business plan as well.

All I know is that in three years I've seen Skype's unlimited US/Canada
calling go from free to $15/year, to $30/year, to $36. Still a bargain, but
obviously they're testing the waters to see a) how much you're willing to
pay, and b) what they can afford to provide service at. I bought for $15
just as a "toy" (pure profit to Skype- I used maybe 10 minutes all year) but
for $30 it wasn't worth it. Skype was just a backup for my backup, and if I
need to make a few calls, it'll be at the $0.021/min. rate. No point eating
at the buffet if you're not that hungry!


> Unlimited phone service TO AND FROM my Nokia N800 Linux tablet is only
> $36 out and $24/number in PER YEAR! With phone numbers in Charleston
> and England I'm paying $7/month AND THAT'S ALL!


Which is great. As I've said, I've got nothing against Skype. Again, it
just gets crapped on in the DSLReports forums because they tend to discuss
SIP-compliant VoIP, and Skype isn't one of them.

But Larry, do you not see the irony that you're defending a (relatively)
overpriced, closed, proprietary service like Skype tooth and nail because
you believe it represents a good value to you, yet to crap on anyone who
defends their "SELLphone" data service because ubiquitous mobile data
represents a good value to them?