kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>>> "aaronep@pacbell.net" <aaronep@pacbell.net> wrote

>>>> I am interested in converting from wired to wireless keyboard & mouse.

>>>> If anyone reading this has experience with wireless, I would like
>>>> to know if you are happy with them. Are there any negatives?
>>>> Can you recommend one brand over another?

>>>> Any info on this appreciated.

>>> The need for wireless keyboard depends most on whether you move the
>>> keyboard off the desk in front of a monitor. I do so I find that useful.

>>> Even great wireless mice lag slightly.

>> Nope, any mouse lags slightly.

> To be reasonable, we'd have to have some reference point that was a mouse,

Nope. We know that any mouse thats serially connected to the PC, and all of the
current mice are, have to lag slightly due to the speed of the serial connection.

> since even the human "lags slightly".

Nope, what we are talking about is the time between
when say the button is pressed and the PC registers
that press. Same with a movement of the mouse.

> Given such a reference point being a high sample rate
> PS2 or USB, quality mouse, there are no wireless that
> don't lag more than that reference point

What matters is whether the wireless link adds any lag. It doesnt with the best wireless mice.

> - so the statement is true

Nope.

> even if you'd like to split hairs about it.

It aint hair splitting, its fact, ALL modern mice lag.

>>> Some people never notice it, the problem used to be worse than
>>> it is today so now mostly gamers would have a reason to be
>>> particular and yet plenty of people game ok with wireless mice.

>> Because the best wireless mice dont lag any more than a wired mouse does.

> False.

Fact.

> You may not be able to perceive it yourself, but it's there, others can.

Easy to claim, hell of a lot harder to actually substantiate that claim.

> Similarly some can't perceive CRT monitor flicker at 85Hz but others can.

Irrelevant to what is being discussed.

And human perception can be completely eliminated from
a rigorous scientific measurement of mouse lag anyway.

And its completely trivial to calculate the lag involved in any serial communication anyway.

>>> Like with the keyboard, if your mouse stays in one spot there's
>>> not so much need for wireless. Some people like the asthetics
>>> of not having a cord, though the extra weight of the battery(s)
>>> in a cordless mouse pretty much offsets the difference in ease
>>> of use having to move a cord around with the mouse.

>> Nope. The cord has a variable effect, the extra weight doesnt.

> ... in your subjective use,

Nope, nothing subjective about whether the cord sometimes
affects the movement of the mouse and sometimes doesnt.

> which is fine. Everyone should place their subjective use/needs
> above all other factors but nevertheless the hypothetical ideal
> when the user has good dexterity is an infinitely light mouse
> as it allows finer control with the twitch muscles in the wrist
> which are much faster than using more as the % of weight
> of mouse vs hand grows.

Meaningless waffle with what is being discussed there.

> Certainly some mice are worse than others in this respect,
> some take smaller lighter lithium cell, one or two AAA, or one
> AA instead of two AA - though some that seem to take two AA
> will actually run from one or a AAA if there were an adapter shim.

Irrelevant to whether the cord on a corded mouse will sometime
constrain the mouse movement when it gets snagged.

>> And the lightest mice arent as nice to use anyway.

> To you.

To everyone.

> Depends why they are light to some people, if there
> were no other tradeoff in shape, size, weight distribution
> then there are definitely people who prefer them lighter.

More meaningless waffle.

> Personally I find it crazy that some actually add a weight plate.

Your problem.

> The difference is I don't need the positive feedback of feeling pressure
> against my hand to know I'm moving the mouse or how much.

That isnt the reason for adding weight deliberately.

> Perhaps when one first gets a mouse and isn't so accustomed to it yet,
> a certain amount of weight helps but otherwise it has a lot to do with
> the user... if they get what they want it's win/win for everyone.

More irrelevant waffle.

>>> It certainly does look tidier to not have the wires, I'd consider
>>> a cordless mouse more useful than a cordless keyboard.

>>> Negatives are bad performance with junk brands or not having
>>> the receiver in a good spot. Even then some have a range of
>>> 6' or less. Get bluetooth type if maximum range is
>>> important but that tends to cost significantly more.

>>> Get some good low self discharge batteries like Sanyo
>>> Eneloops. It's handy to have a spare pair of them charged
>>> then whatever device you have that needs a swap - whether it
>>> be a game controller, phone, mouse, remote control or
>>> whatever - has a pair ready to install then you don't have
>>> to wait on the drained set to recharge.

>> Or get a mouse that will run all day with the low battery led flashing.

> Why?

So you dont have to do anything about the battery being low till its convenient to do that.

> So you can schedule swapping batteries at the end of the day instead?

Not schedule, just do something about the low battery when the mouse isnt being used.

And anyone with a clue uses a mouse that doesnt need
to have the rechargeable batterys physically removed too.

> Might matter if changing a battery took more than a dozen seconds.

Anyone with a clue uses a mouse that doesnt need
to have the rechargeable batterys physically removed.

> Either way you still need have the replacement pair recharged

Not if you recharge what stays in the mouse.

> or wait on that

Not if the batterys that stay in the mouse are
recharged overnight while you arent using the mouse.

> so what I wrote is still relevant

Nope, as always.

> - that it's handy to have a spare pair of low self discharge
> cells already charged and waiting to be used in whatever
> random device would happen to need them.

Anyone with a clue uses a mouse that allows the batterys to be
recharged without removing them from the mouse, and which runs fine
with the low battery indication flashing for the whole day so you can
just recharge it when you arent going to use the mouse overnight etc.

>>> Generally I find Logitech sets the best, then Microsoft.
>>> Trying to save a couple dollars by going with a lower
>>> quality brand is usually a bad idea. A low end Logitech
>>> set may be better than a high end generic though I
>>> would go with a middle tiered product.

>> I go for high end myself, because the keyboard and
>> mouse are more used than anything except the monitor.

> Unfortunately high end in a keyboard doesn't necessarily translate
> into any important parameters for general keyboard use.

Wrong, as always.

> Things like key travel & feedback vary per set design
> decisions that are not tied to how high or low end they are,

I didnt even mention low end.

> with one possible exception that now the old mechanical
> switch style used a couple decades ago has become high
> enough priced to be considered high-end by some, though
> AFAIK neither Logitech or MS make one.

That bit wasnt even discussing keyboards. The next bit clearly was about keyboards.

>>> Keyboard won't matter so much if you like the key placement, style,
>>> etc. Mouse improvement comes from spending enough to get one
>>> with a laser engine, same as with corded mice. Some non-lasers
>>> may claim fairly high DPI like around 1000 but they don't track as
>>> well as their laser counterparts on many mousing surfaces.

>> And anyone with a clue wants more than just minimal buttons on the mouse too.

> Depends on their use.

Nope.

> Games or HTPC users who want to control their HTPC
> with only a mouse may benefit from addt'l buttons the most,

Irrelevant to the other situations that benefit from more than just minimal mouse buttons.

> and as for the keyboard there are plenty of keyboard shortcuts and
> on most modern keyboards - even the cheap low end ones, there
> are several hotkeys that can be programmed. A low end cordless
> Logitech for example may have about a dozen such addt'l keys, in
> addition to secondary functions on all the <Fn> keys.

Irrelevant to my comment about mouse buttons. And those dont
replace well designed extra functions on the mouse anyway.