The cathedral plus the bazaar: Open source and Apple (design) envy

Steve Sobol wrote:

> They're rolling out in the bigger cities, yes, but there are still a lot
> of places, like Victorville, where T-Mo doesn't have 3G yet and there is
> no ETA.
>
> We're a little over an hour northeast of Los Angeles.

I was back east a few weeks ago, and my brother was looking into getting
3G data service. He has Sprint cell service, and Sprint 3G service is
pretty good there, but T-Mobile had not yet deployed 3G in his part of
south Florida.

Of course it's not an anti-GSM agenda, as our favorite troll said. AT&T
3G service has greatly improved and is almost caught up with Verizon. It
has nothing to do with GSM or CDMA (especially since all 3G is CDMA of
one sort or another!).

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 03 Jul 2009 11:22:04 -0700 SMS wrote:
>
>>> it is a decent value, but so are offerings from other carriers. it's
>>> not the only choice nor is it the best value for everyone.
>> Flexpay is more expensive than other prepaid plans, plus you have much
>> poorer coverage that is the hallmark of T-Mobile, at least in the
>> western region. You wouldn't sign up for FlexPay for voice-only, you'd
>> only do it if you wanted the $20 unlimited mobile web service.
>
>
> That'd depend on one's needs. Flexpay plans are essentially the same as
> T-Mo's regular plans with no credit checks or deposits, so very heavy
> users with lousy credit will find value they wouldn't get from
> traditional prepaid plans, (or even PP's talk and text,) get features
> like "free" M2M and N&W, and have access to more advanced/new phones if
> they choose.
>
> (And, BTW, it's actually only $10 for data,
> not $20- John is referring to the unlimited data/messaging bundle in his
> quote.) The cheapest voice plan is $30, so voice plus unlimited data
> starts at $40.

Yes, I see that now. What about tethering?

> I you REALLY just want unlimited data on T-Mo, you could exploit a
> current loophole and setup a phone on regular prepaid, go online and
> switch to a "Sidekick plan"- a $1/day unlimited data and messaging plan
> intended only for the Sidekick line of "hiptop" phones. You then change
> your non-Sidekick's data settings to use the Sidekick's settins, and
> you're good to go, at least until T-Mo closes that loophole.

Yeah that's a good idea, assuming you can tether, and assuming they
don't close the loophole.

In message <5b6r45legat0qen64rev5c7t02mib1702o@4ax.com> John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> was claimed to have wrote:

>FlexPay is actually an excellent value.

Can you turn it on and off easily, or is there a lot of hassle involved?

Basically I'm just looking for "real" service (with data) when I'm in
the US, but I don't want to pay anything when I'm not. Sometimes I go 3
weeks between trips, sometimes 6 months, so leaving service active the
whole time is beyond my budget, but I do miss having data easily
available.

At 03 Jul 2009 17:04:29 -0700 SMS wrote:
> > The cheapest voice plan is $30, so voice plus unlimited data
> > starts at $40.
>
> Yes, I see that now. What about tethering?

So far it's "don't ask, don't tell"- it's prohibited by the TOS of
course, but T-Mo no longer offers a tethering plan, and no one has
reported being threatened or terminated on HoFo or other forums I follow.
(T-Mo technically only allows internet access on computers via a PC
card/USB dongle.)

T-Mo does have a 10GB/month soft cap- they threaten to throttle bandwidth
to 50kbps when you hit it.


> > I you REALLY just want unlimited data on T-Mo, you could exploit a
> > current loophole and setup a phone on regular prepaid, go online and
> > switch to a "Sidekick plan"- a $1/day unlimited data and messaging
plan
> > intended only for the Sidekick line of "hiptop" phones. You then
change
> > your non-Sidekick's data settings to use the Sidekick's settins, and
> > you're good to go, at least until T-Mo closes that loophole.
>
> Yeah that's a good idea, assuming you can tether, and assuming they
> don't close the loophole.


Like above, tethering works if the phone supports it (again, against the
TOS.)

Since it's prepaid, you could just stop buying refills if they close the
loophole, of course. I certainly wouldn't suggest buying some $500
Uberfone to use this or any service dependent on a loophole or a TOS
violation.

In message <UsB3m.10312$Kn1.1216@newsfe09.iad> Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@aNOoSPAMl.com> was claimed to have wrote:

>My suggestion would be starting an accoun on T-Mo's regular prepaid,
>opening with a $100 refill to get you "gold reward" status (once" gold,"
>all refills have a 365-day expiry.) Each time you're going to visit the
>US, go to the T-Mo website's OLAM (online account management) and switch
>from the regular prepaid plan to the "Sidekick" plan ($1/day unlimited
>data/messaging, $0.15/minute voice). When you get back, switch back to
>the regular prepaid plan to stop the $1/day charge, and the remaining
>balance will continue the rest of the year. Assuming you don't blow
>through $100 the first year, any refill card, as low as $10, will extend
>your remaining balance for another year. (I have three "gold rewards"
>accounts- at least two of which I don't really need, but for just
>$10/year I just can't seem to let them expire!)
>
>
>Unlike the regular prepaid plan, where higher denomination cards give you
>a lower per-minute voice rate, the Sidekick plan is fixed rate so there's
>no "penalty" buying smaller cards. The only reson I recommended a $100
>card to begin with is to get the one-year expiry option right away.
>Alternatively, you can buy smaller cards (they last 90 days) and you'll
>get Gold status after buying $100 worth in aggregate.
>
>Keep in mind, as I said earlier, this exploits the loophole (that's
>existed for years) that T-Mo doesn't attempt to technologically restrict
>this plan to "Sidekick" phones via the network, though the TOS says a
>Sidekick is required. Any unlocked (or T-Mo locked) phone with the
>ability to enter a new APN, (hiptop.t-mobile.com) should work, but I'd
>test your phone with the service using the $3 credit a T-Mo prepaid SIM
>comes with before shelling out $100 on a refill. T-Mo offers a prepaid 3G
>Nokia (3555) for $50 on their website- it's only UMTS rather than HSDPA,
>but cheap HSDPA phones with T-Mo' AWS band are hard to come by without a
>contract.

I'm currently using T-Mobile prepaid and have been for several years,
but I'd always assumed that you needed a Sidekick serial number or
something to use that plan, thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely try
this later this month.

At 03 Jul 2009 23:21:59 -0700 DevilsPGD wrote:

> I'm currently using T-Mobile prepaid and have been for several years,
> but I'd always assumed that you needed a Sidekick serial number or
> something to use that plan, thanks for the heads up, I'll definitely try
> this later this month.

Worst case scenario, it costs you a buck!

Some folks report it worked if they left the username and pw blank in the
data profile, others used "guest" for both. Seems to be phone-dependent.


Good luck!

DevilsPGD wrote:
> In message <5b6r45legat0qen64rev5c7t02mib1702o@4ax.com> John Navas
> <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>
>> FlexPay is actually an excellent value.
>
> Can you turn it on and off easily, or is there a lot of hassle involved?
>
> Basically I'm just looking for "real" service (with data) when I'm in
> the US, but I don't want to pay anything when I'm not. Sometimes I go 3
> weeks between trips, sometimes 6 months, so leaving service active the
> whole time is beyond my budget, but I do miss having data easily
> available.

A lot depends on how much data you need, and whether you need data on
the handset or data on a laptop.

One recently indroduced service is Sprint 3G prepaid data via Virgin
Mobile. There's no need to keep the Virgin data account active, you buy
blocks of data as needed, see
"http://web.virginmobileusa.com/broadbandPlans". You do have the initial
cost for the USB card for data, and Sprint has fairly poor coverage in
the U.S., but it's generally okay in urban areas--just don't go to
Alaska, or Montana!

You can keep a T-Mobile prepaid voice account active for 73 cents per
month, which should be within your budget (to do this you have to go
"Gold" which means buying $100 airtime card (for $88), then you can buy
$10 cards (for $8.80) once a year from then on). Unfortunately, T-Mobile
prepaid does not offer data services.

I guess you could activate a new FlexPay account every time you come,
but you have to get a phone from T-Mobile, you can't just buy a new SIM
card (at least on line), so every time you sign up you're paying about
$50. Also, the FlexPay account is no great bargain, you'd only get it if
(versus other prepaid options) if you needed the $10 unlimited data
add-on on the handset.

You can keep a PagePlus prepaid account active for about $2.50/month,
and pay as you go for data ($1.20/M and voice (6-12 cents per minute)
(actually a little less since their refill cards are discounted). This
could get expensive if you use more than just a small amount of data.

WalMart now sells a product called "StraightTalk" prepaid which includes
1000 voice minutes, 1000 texts, and 30MB of data for up to 30 days of
service for $30. But like FlexPay, you have to buy a phone when you sign
up, you can't use an existing Verizon CDMA phone.

DevilsPGD <DeathToSpam@crazyhat.net> wrote in
news:raft45lvhe387qr8n3fpq1bjf69rui4ivk@4ax.com:

> Basically I'm just looking for "real" service (with data) when I'm in
> the US, but I don't want to pay anything when I'm not. Sometimes I go 3
> weeks between trips, sometimes 6 months, so leaving service active the
> whole time is beyond my budget, but I do miss having data easily
> available.
>
>

Think about it.....Where would you need data service when you're in the US?

Hotel? Free Wifi
Restaurant? Free Wifi
Coffee Shop Free Wifi

Data is easily available almost anywhere there are commercial
establishments within 50 feet trying to attract computer customers.

Ok, so you'll not be browsing apple.com from the back seat of a cab....big
deal.



--
-----
Larry

If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?

In message <Xns9C3ED014F7D62noonehomecom@74.209.131.13> Larry
<noone@home.com> was claimed to have wrote:

>DevilsPGD <DeathToSpam@crazyhat.net> wrote in
>news:raft45lvhe387qr8n3fpq1bjf69rui4ivk@4ax.com :
>
>> Basically I'm just looking for "real" service (with data) when I'm in
>> the US, but I don't want to pay anything when I'm not. Sometimes I go 3
>> weeks between trips, sometimes 6 months, so leaving service active the
>> whole time is beyond my budget, but I do miss having data easily
>> available.
>>
>>
>
>Think about it.....Where would you need data service when you're in the US?
>
>Hotel? Free Wifi

Many hotels have surprisingly bad wifi. You've also not been to Vegas.

>Restaurant? Free Wifi

Some do, most of the ones we've been to in Dallas suburbs don't have
free wifi.

>Coffee Shop Free Wifi

I can't say I spend much time in coffee shops so I can't speak to this
one.

In message <SSD3m.7131$OF1.1095@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com> SMS
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> was claimed to have wrote:

>DevilsPGD wrote:
>> In message <5b6r45legat0qen64rev5c7t02mib1702o@4ax.com> John Navas
>> <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> was claimed to have wrote:
>>
>>> FlexPay is actually an excellent value.
>>
>> Can you turn it on and off easily, or is there a lot of hassle involved?
>>
>> Basically I'm just looking for "real" service (with data) when I'm in
>> the US, but I don't want to pay anything when I'm not. Sometimes I go 3
>> weeks between trips, sometimes 6 months, so leaving service active the
>> whole time is beyond my budget, but I do miss having data easily
>> available.
>
>A lot depends on how much data you need, and whether you need data on
>the handset or data on a laptop.

I'm looking for handset data, I've already got unlimited EVDO anywhere
in North America on my laptop.

My current hope is that I can get a MiFi onto my existing plan,
effectively giving me a free hotspot anywhere I go, but at the moment
TELUS is being somewhat difficult about confirming whether or not
they'll activate the hardware on their network.

>You can keep a T-Mobile prepaid voice account active for 73 cents per
>month, which should be within your budget (to do this you have to go
>"Gold" which means buying $100 airtime card (for $88), then you can buy
>$10 cards (for $8.80) once a year from then on). Unfortunately, T-Mobile
>prepaid does not offer data services.

This is what I'm currently doing, although obviously without data.

Rogers is now offering $1/MB US roaming, which isn't too bad if I'm
careful, but since it's a valid business expense, it would be handy to
have flat rate on-device data while I'm traveling rather then keeping my
data usage to the base minimum of business needs.

>I guess you could activate a new FlexPay account every time you come,
>but you have to get a phone from T-Mobile, you can't just buy a new SIM
>card (at least on line), so every time you sign up you're paying about
>$50. Also, the FlexPay account is no great bargain, you'd only get it if
>(versus other prepaid options) if you needed the $10 unlimited data
>add-on on the handset.

A new account isn't worth the hassle, I'd only do this if I could
suspend an account while I'm not using it or similar.

>You can keep a PagePlus prepaid account active for about $2.50/month,
>and pay as you go for data ($1.20/M and voice (6-12 cents per minute)
>(actually a little less since their refill cards are discounted). This
>could get expensive if you use more than just a small amount of data.

Yeah, I actually pay less then that for roaming data.

My goal would be to find something in the $30-$60/month range that I
could turn on and off without too much pain, GSM preferred since I use
GSM at home and already have a couple GSM devices, switching to some $20
"feature" phone to use a prepaid carrier isn't really worthwhile.

Larry wrote:

> Hotel? Free Wifi
> Restaurant? Free Wifi
> Coffee Shop Free Wifi

On a commuter train or bus. I.e., in the Washington D.C. Metro there is
Verizon service even on the underground portion. On BART, much of it is
above ground and 3G works, and on CalTrain all of it is above ground and
3G works.

I find paying by the MB for 3G is fine because I need it so rarely that
even $30/month for using a Sidekick plan with the workaround that Todd
explained, is more than I would spend.

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:Bhp4m.5004$Jb1.4675
@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com:

> paying by the MB for 3G is fine because I need it so rarely

That was my question's point to this user. With free wifi becoming so
much easier to find, some areas with 5 or 6 free wifis in a single
shopping center, the need for overpriced sellphone data access becomes
less and less important. You can't drive down main street and do
emails, or you shouldn't at least, unless you have a chauffeur most of
us rarely have. So, what do you do, you pull into some place, connect
to sellphone data and do what you do. In that same place, if you took
the time to look, there's probably several totally unlocked, totally
free wifis the device will simply logon to without the sellphone
expense....

The mobility issue sounds great and it IS lots of fun to listen to Kix
Country in Bundesberg, Queensland, AU while cruising the
interstate....but it sure isn't worth $70/month to do so. I marginally
justify the $25/mo I'm paying Verizon for tethered data, now. If it
increases as the Borg assume control, I'll dump it immediately as $25 is
about my limit. I may dump it anyway when the dreaded 5GB limit is
finally imposed. 5GB cruising commercial webpages full of flash spam
you'll be paying by the byte for looking at cnn.com, eats 5GB in no time
at all! It isn't an issue on an iPhone that doesn't support the spam
movies, but tethered to a real computer that does, data loads go way up.

================================================== ====================

I just got off the phone with this guy:
http://www.buzzirkmobilezer01.com/
who isn't interested in consumer sales of Zer01's new VoIP GSM service,
I found out. He's part of the Amway pyramid scheme looking for Amway-
style dealers to market the new service. His wife used to be an Amway
distributor he admitted to me when I told him it sounded like Amway. I
didn't want to be a Zer01 dealer making $50,000 to $100,000 per month on
shared commissions, so our conversation was brief. Consumers won't be
put online until August-something he wouldn't promise me, after they get
the dealer pyramid scheme setup and running.

I've read they'll be using data from ATT Wireless. I asked him how they
intended to get 3.1Mbps UNLIMITED data service out of ATTWS' 3G with no
AUP and no throttling, but he was on a roll-to-sell and wasn't
interested in the physics that fascinates me.

Even if it won't go any faster than ATTWS' 3G, it's really going to turn
the sellphone business on its head if they can deliver what they promise
for $79/month. Check it out. I was amazed when he called.

I wouldn't want to "get in on the ground floor" and start selling a
phone system that didn't work, though. It's bad enough selling phones
on a system that's reasonably functional to the consumers. I'm not sure
consumers are going to like WinMo VoIP client-over-GSM Data at this
time.

Didn't ATTWS JUST tell iphone customers they were running out of
bandwidth for the things iPhoners expect it to do? So, why are they
adding very high speed Zer01 data customers to the load with no limits
on GB or bandwidth, so the Zer01 people say of course, to exascerbate
the situation on their so-called overloaded system?? GSM in Charleston
is T-mobile and ATTWS. They're the only nationwide carriers on that
technology here. Zer01 has got to use one of them's system to connect.
ATTWS has 3G on about 70% of the city, with EDGE in the bedroom
communities of the NW of the metro area...never built out 3G. T-mo is
better and maybe the phones will select T-mo as this distributor said
Zer01 has agreements with every GSM carrier in the US/Canada.

Most interesting....if it works. Cricket Aircard to Skype is still $40
but has no features like these guys offer. $80 with their feature set,
and NO AUP UNLIMITED INTERNET DATA without throttling is a real bargain!



--
-----
Larry

Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
entrails of the last cleric.

On Fri, 3 Jul 2009 16:14:12 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote in <MPG.24b830a3a0c9472e9896cd@news.justthe.net>:

>In article <q0ms451g09an8ldsbvgdi3db2pbpir1fuv@4ax.com>, spamfilter1
>@navasgroup.com says...
>
>> >There's actually two parts to your "actually." First, in many parts of
>> >the country there is no 3G yet on T-Mobile. Second, at least in the
>> >western region, even if there is technically 3G, T-Mobile coverage is
>> >very lacking.
>>
>> Still not over your anti-GSM agenda, I see -- T-Mobile 3G coverage is
>> actually quite good here in Northern California, as shown in the
>> coverage map I posted earlier, and as anyone knows with any actual
>> experience on the T-Mobile 3G network.
>
>They're rolling out in the bigger cities, yes, but there are still a lot
>of places, like Victorville, where T-Mo doesn't have 3G yet and there is
>no ETA.
>
>We're a little over an hour northeast of Los Angeles.

Fair enough, although Victorville is in the high desert with a
population of about 100K, and what I wrote was "Northern California",
much farther than an "hour northeast of Los Angeles".

I spent the 4th weekend in the Sacramento area, and had good 3G coverage
from Davis to Roseville and down toward Stockton.

--
Best regards,
John <http:/navasgroup.com>

If the iPhone is really so impressive,
why do iFans keep making excuses for it?

On Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:53:07 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <SSD3m.7131$OF1.1095@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com>:

>I guess you could activate a new FlexPay account every time you come,
>but you have to get a phone from T-Mobile, you can't just buy a new SIM
>card (at least on line), so every time you sign up you're paying about
>$50.

1. You do not have to get a phone from T-Mobile --
you can use any workable phone, and you can buy just a SIM card --
I've done it.

>Also, the FlexPay account is no great bargain, you'd only get it if
>(versus other prepaid options) if you needed the $10 unlimited data
>add-on on the handset.

2. FlexPay is actually a good value.
3. Unlimited data (and messaging) is actually $20 per month.

--
Best regards,
John <http:/navasgroup.com>

If the iPhone is really so impressive,
why do iFans keep making excuses for it?

In article <6al455lp8hu3u7b8b94jpka7et9a0mu6dm@4ax.com>, spamfilter1
@navasgroup.com says...

> >They're rolling out in the bigger cities, yes, but there are still a
lot
> >of places, like Victorville, where T-Mo doesn't have 3G yet and there is
> >no ETA.
> >
> >We're a little over an hour northeast of Los Angeles.
>
> Fair enough, although Victorville is in the high desert with a
> population of about 100K, and what I wrote was "Northern California",
> much farther than an "hour northeast of Los Angeles".

Acknowledged. My point was simply that T-Mo is still in the middle of
their 3G rollout and, while I'm not surprised that you have good 3G data
coverage, plenty of small- and mid-sized cities still don't.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, California, USA
sjsobol@JustThe.net

At 06 Jul 2009 09:06:47 -0700 SMS wrote:
> Larry wrote:
>
> > Hotel? Free Wifi
> > Restaurant? Free Wifi
> > Coffee Shop Free Wifi
>
> On a commuter train or bus. I.e., in the Washington D.C. Metro there is
> Verizon service even on the underground portion. On BART, much of it is
> above ground and 3G works, and on CalTrain all of it is above ground
> and 3G works.
>
> I find paying by the MB for 3G is fine because I need it so rarely that
> even $30/month for using a Sidekick plan with the workaround that Todd
> explained, is more than I would spend.


The real power of that workaround is that it's billed on a per-day basis,
so, assuming you had a T-Mo prepaid account already, you could just fire
it up on days you needed ubiquitous or continuous access, like if your
broadband goes down, or you find yourself in a hotel that charges for WiFi.
("What's browsed in Vegas, is PAID in Vegas!")

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:58:37 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <ZVw3m.1826$cl4.1282@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>:

>Of course it's not an anti-GSM agenda, as our favorite troll said.

It quite clearly is.

>AT&T
>3G service has greatly improved and is almost caught up with Verizon.

Actually superior.

>It
>has nothing to do with GSM or CDMA (especially since all 3G is CDMA of
>one sort or another!).

CDMA2000 and UMTS are different technologies.

--
Best regards,
John <http:/navasgroup.com>

If the iPhone is really so impressive,
why do iFans keep making excuses for it?

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:34:24 -0600, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@aNOoSPAMl.com> wrote in <fIv3m.4272$Xs4.2259@newsfe11.iad>:

>That'd depend on one's needs. Flexpay plans are essentially the same as
>T-Mo's regular plans with no credit checks or deposits, so very heavy
>users with lousy credit will find value they wouldn't get from
>traditional prepaid plans, (or even PP's talk and text,) get features
>like "free" M2M and N&W, and have access to more advanced/new phones if
>they choose.

Correct.

>(And, BTW, it's actually only $10 for data,
>not $20- John is referring to the unlimited data/messaging bundle in his
>quote.) The cheapest voice plan is $30, so voice plus unlimited data
>starts at $40.

Correct if you don't want a messaging package.
If you do want a messaging package, then the only option is
Unlimited Web + Unlimited Messages for phones @ $19.95/month

Thank you for the clarification.

--
Best regards,
John <http:/navasgroup.com>

If the iPhone is really so impressive,
why do iFans keep making excuses for it?

On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:07:03 -0600, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@aNOoSPAMl.com> wrote in <UsB3m.10312$Kn1.1216@newsfe09.iad>:

>At 03 Jul 2009 19:35:25 -0700 DevilsPGD wrote:
>
>> >FlexPay is actually an excellent value.
>>
>> Can you turn it on and off easily, or is there a lot of hassle involved?
>
>You'd have to cancel and re-establish service each visit to avoid paying
>continuously.

Correct.

>There's no contract, but there'd be an activation fee ($36, IIRC,) and a

The activation fee is routinely waived.

--
Best regards,
John <http:/navasgroup.com>

If the iPhone is really so impressive,
why do iFans keep making excuses for it?

In message <342555thb1esaqmumns6g1fptpvelj3nb5@4ax.com> John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> was claimed to have wrote:

>On Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:07:03 -0600, Todd Allcock
><elecconnec@aNOoSPAMl.com> wrote in <UsB3m.10312$Kn1.1216@newsfe09.iad>:
>
>>At 03 Jul 2009 19:35:25 -0700 DevilsPGD wrote:
>>
>>> >FlexPay is actually an excellent value.
>>>
>>> Can you turn it on and off easily, or is there a lot of hassle involved?
>>
>>You'd have to cancel and re-establish service each visit to avoid paying
>>continuously.
>
>Correct.

I was hoping I could jump back and forth between that and a regular
prepaid plan that could sit inactive for a while.

>>There's no contract, but there'd be an activation fee ($36, IIRC,) and a
>
>The activation fee is routinely waived.

According to the website it's completely waived at the moment.

"DevilsPGD" <DeathToSpam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message
news:jjf555h0ar5ce5sngj75l8fa2d3drdmpj4@4ax.com...

>>>> >FlexPay is actually an excellent value.
>>>>
>>>> Can you turn it on and off easily, or is there a lot of hassle
>>>> involved?
>>>
>>>You'd have to cancel and re-establish service each visit to avoid paying
>>>continuously.
>>
>>Correct.
>
> I was hoping I could jump back and forth between that and a regular
> prepaid plan that could sit inactive for a while.

Not flexpay- there's currently no way to convert a prepaid account to
Flexpay, or vice-versa. You can just cycle between the different prepaid
accounts (Pay as you go, Pay by day, Sidekick)


>>>There's no contract, but there'd be an activation fee ($36, IIRC,) and a
>>
>>The activation fee is routinely waived.
>
> According to the website it's completely waived at the moment.

It seems to be a promotion that comes and goes. I'm a pessimist. I just
assume the moment I needed to activate, the fees would be back in play!

In message <Xns9C40A0DF17A1Anoonehomecom@74.209.131.13> Larry
<noone@home.com> was claimed to have wrote:

>That was my question's point to this user.

That would be me.

>With free wifi becoming so
>much easier to find, some areas with 5 or 6 free wifis in a single
>shopping center

I don't tend to spend my precious time away from home in shopping
centers, but when I do, I'm in and out in a hurry and don't really want
to have to play Marco-Polo with hotspots I can see but aren't close
enough to connect to, especially since I can't tell if they're free
until I get close enough to actually use it.

Grapevine Mills Mall, for example, didn't have any free wifi covering
the majority of the mall when I was there about a year ago, nothing at
all in the food court, the only thing I found was some coffee shop with
foul smelling swill.

Hotels in the area used to be decent sources for free access, but more
and more they look free until you try and use it, when you discover a
captive portal prompts for the password rather then using a wifi
password.

> the need for overpriced sellphone data access becomes
>less and less important. You can't drive down main street and do
>emails, or you shouldn't at least, unless you have a chauffeur most of
>us rarely have.

I nearly always have a chauffeur, when I travel on business it's mainly
the hotel shuttle driver or one of my coworkers who gets a better deal
on car rentals then I do.

None of the free indoor wifi helps me use Google Maps when I'm with
another out-of-towner and we're lost, nor does it get me an email from
the boss telling us that he's going out for drinks (which means drinks
are on him)

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> > Open-source advocates like good design as much as anyone, but the
> > open- source development process is often not the best way to achieve
> > it.

> Open source is horrible. All their fantastic software is just awful.
> Case in point:
> http://www.openoffice.org/
> http://www.abisource.com/
> http://flac.sourceforge.net/
> http://www.vorbis.com/
> http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/
> http://maemo.org/
> http://www.kde.org/
> http://sourceforge.net/
> http://code.google.com/
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codebase
>
> It's all horrible, buggy, crashes, impossible to run, cryptic, fun,
> amazing, impressive, and will keep you from any productive work for
> years and years....

John Gruber answered this point 5 years ago:
http://daringfireball.net/2004/04/spray_on_usability


--
In a world without walls and fences,
who needs windows and gates?