iPhone is the Invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine

Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:

> No MMS messages

not needed by 99% of users

> No 3G

kills battery life, WiFi is much faster and more common / free.

> No GPS

GPS might not yet be ready for the iPhone's level of needs.

> No user-replaceable battery

Incorrect, it's $20 for a user to replace the iPhone battery

> Poor PDA functionality

Ah, I think you mean GREAT PDA functionality, Apple invented PDA's so
this is just an extension of Apple's original dream.

> Restrictive terms of use...

? Use is the exact same as any smartphone.

> No memory expansion..

Ah, you are forgetting how iTunes works, syncing makes for little need
for expansion when iTunes does this automatically.

> Have to PAY for ringtones?

no you don't, use iToner.

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/itoner/

> 2 Megapixel Camera

Megapixels have little to do with image quality, the Lens in the iPhone
is higher grade than most any smartphone or cellphone.

> No output to TV

Apple offers cables to output TV from any iPhone or (most) any iPod.

> VOIP?

VoIP is still in the formative stages. iChat does this now so it's only
a matter of time before it can be moved to the iPhone. Apple tends to
wait until the time is right, not push out inferior products before they
are ready.

> Touch Screen?

Yes, it's the best on the market. The Multi-Touch tech is a revolution
that only Apple will have for the next 17 years. The use of "Gestures"
has been a long held research project of Apple. Even the CEO of MS was
shocked / impressed by how good Apple did it with the iPhone.

Flicking through data with a single finger is unreal. The future of all
phones in the 18 year time frame.

-----

In article <colalovesmacs-6DD99A.14373101112007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net>, Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote:
>iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine

So why are you cross-posting this to every group and its mother? I'm seeing
this on the T-Mobile group, which I believe doesn't support that contraption.

Art

To each his own... But...

Gene Jones wrote:
> Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> No MMS messages
>
> not needed by 99% of users

99%? really? I use it extensively..

>
>> No 3G
>
> kills battery life, WiFi is much faster and more common / free.

I tether my phone to either my laptop or a Nokia N800 frequently..
Wifi, esp 'free' wifi is not as ubiquitous as you might think... and
Edge is too slow to be useful for a number of tasks... IMHO, Jobs panned
3G as being a power hog as the 'company line' for not including it... I
suspect the story behind the scenes is quite different.. Most likely
couldn't get past an engineering hurdle before they needed to launch
it.. but I am speculating..

>
>> No GPS
>
> GPS might not yet be ready for the iPhone's level of needs.

This one is a 'push'.. but considering the emphasis on google maps in
their advertisements, I would disagree...

>
>> No user-replaceable battery
>
> Incorrect, it's $20 for a user to replace the iPhone battery


Doesn't it require the user to send the phone in to Apple, and then pay
for a rental iPhone if they cannot be without one for more than 10 days?
or has Apple changed their stance on it? I did say 'user-replaceable'...

>
>> Poor PDA functionality
>
> Ah, I think you mean GREAT PDA functionality, Apple invented PDA's so
> this is just an extension of Apple's original dream.

Nope, I meant POOR... Apparently, what either of us look for in a PDA is
very different... and if you mean to bring up the Newton, I will give
you a 'Mulligan' on that... I owned one of those things...

>
>> Restrictive terms of use...
>
> ? Use is the exact same as any smartphone.

Not if you purchase an unlocked phone.. Granted, in the US, that means I
can use either ATT or T-Mobile, or a few other smaller independent
providers... but it is still a choice..
>
>> No memory expansion..
>
> Ah, you are forgetting how iTunes works, syncing makes for little need
> for expansion when iTunes does this automatically.

I have in excess of 7,000 songs, a number of videos, audiobooks, etc...
on my current iPod 5G Video.. If you think that having to 'plan' what
you want to listen to in advance and check off several hundred little
boxes is more efficient, than God Bless You... I would find it a
maddening waste of time... I spent enough time digitizing my entire
music library..

>
>> Have to PAY for ringtones?
>
> no you don't, use iToner.
>
> http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/itoner/

Fair enough.. but, and I know it's nit-picky, you have to pay for
iToner.. therefore you are still 'paying' for ringtones.. and the MS
Windows crowd is left out...
>
>> 2 Megapixel Camera
>
> Megapixels have little to do with image quality, the Lens in the iPhone
> is higher grade than most any smartphone or cellphone.

Megapixels/Image Quality.. really depends on what you want to do with
the image... my cell phone (5MP/Carl Zeiss Lens) takes awesome pictures,
but I do not use it to take family portraits..


>
>> No output to TV
>
> Apple offers cables to output TV from any iPhone or (most) any iPod.

Yes, I saw that in a different section on the Apple Website.. It was not
listed as an iPhone accessory. See a previous post..

>
>> VOIP?
>
> VoIP is still in the formative stages. iChat does this now so it's only
> a matter of time before it can be moved to the iPhone. Apple tends to
> wait until the time is right, not push out inferior products before they
> are ready.


VOIP is used by numerous corporations, large and small, for their main
telecommunications needs.. the technology has matured quite well,
certainly well beyond, the 'formative' stages.
I use it all the time.. more so than the standard cell phone... Voice
quality is perfectly fine... Again, the reason was probably more
dependent on ATT not wanting the iPhone to circumvent their 'per minute'
plans than any view that VOIP is an immature technology..


>
>> Touch Screen?
>
> Yes, it's the best on the market. The Multi-Touch tech is a revolution
> that only Apple will have for the next 17 years. The use of "Gestures"
> has been a long held research project of Apple. Even the CEO of MS was
> shocked / impressed by how good Apple did it with the iPhone.
>

I actually moved away from a touch screen entirely and haven't had to
look back... to each his own...


> Flicking through data with a single finger is unreal. The future of all
> phones in the 18 year time frame.
>
> -----
Again, to each his own.. It seems counter productive to me to obscure
half of what is already not already that big of a screen with a virtual
keyboard, then obscure even more with a finger..

Like everything else, we will see.. Remember the Newton? The Lisa?
They were all visions of the future, Apple will show the world, etc...
Not that Apple is the only company with products that didn't quite 'make
it'..

Look at MS... Anyone here remember Microsoft Bob? Steve Ballmer was
very impressed with that as well... It died a quiet and speedy death...
I am definitely NOT a MS fan, and their opinions or what they are
'impressed' by, mean very little to me.

The iPhone is a good phone for a 'basic' user, it is a very well
designed phone from an aesthetic standpoint, but it is NOT the greatest
thing since sliced bread, nor is it as an innovative product as Apple
Marketing would like you to believe...

"Tony" <tony@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:UPydnUtDkYELsrbanZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Oxford wrote:
>> Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine
>
> No output to TV

Who has >output< to TV?

(owner of Razr, Blackjack and Hermes).

Arthur Shapiro wrote:
> In article <colalovesmacs-6DD99A.14373101112007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net>, Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote:
>> iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine
>
> So why are you cross-posting this to every group and its mother? I'm seeing
> this on the T-Mobile group, which I believe doesn't support that contraption.
>
> Art

Ah, yes. I believe it would be called SPAMMING.


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

Tony <t...@nospam.net> wrote:
> To each his own... But...

Exactly.

> Gene Jones wrote:


> >> No 3G
> > kills battery life, WiFi is much faster and more common / free.
> I tether my phone to either my laptop or a Nokia N800 frequently..

Wish my Blackberry could do that.


> >> No user-replaceable battery
>
> > Incorrect, it's $20 for a user to replace the iPhone battery
>
> Doesn't it require the user to send the phone in to Apple, and then pay
> for a rental iPhone if they cannot be without one for more than 10 days?
> or has Apple changed their stance on it? I did say 'user-replaceable'...

I've done ~$20 battery replacements on iPods...its not that hard, even
though its not consider to be "User" replaceable. Some "Batteries
Plus" franchise stores already offer iPod battery swaps (some while-u-
wait), so I'd expect them to expand their services to iPhones by the
time that they're coming out of warranty, and may similarly in some
areas be a while-u-wait service.


> >> Restrictive terms of use...
> > ? Use is the exact same as any smartphone.
>
> Not if you purchase an unlocked phone.. Granted, in the US, that means
> I can use either ATT or T-Mobile, or a few other smaller independent
> providers... but it is still a choice..

Kind of sounds like a silly option within the USA: "Be locked onto
AT&T or be unlocked and still on AT&T" :-) In general, I'd be more
concerned about the phone's free features being lobotimized by the
cellular provider to increase their service fees based profits (see:
Verizon); YMMV.



> >> 2 Megapixel Camera
>
> > Megapixels have little to do with image quality, the Lens in the iPhone
> > is higher grade than most any smartphone or cellphone.
>
> Megapixels/Image Quality.. really depends on what you want to do
> with the image... my cell phone (5MP/Carl Zeiss Lens) takes
> awesome pictures, but I do not use it to take family portraits..

That may be so, but its missing the point. The point is that for a
given chip size, the more pixels you cram onto it, the fewer photons
are available with which to integrate your signal, and the worse your
S/N ratio becomes: the trade-off is more pixels but with more noise,
versus fewer pixels with less noise.

What's been learned is that the noise levels are generally low and
okay up to a point, and then they go to hell. At what specific MP
count this happens depends on the size of the chip. From what I've
read, the S/N acceptability limit appears to be around 25-35MP for
fullframe dSLRs, 12-16MP for crop body dSLRs, the 7-10MP range for
most Point&Shoot digitals, and for cellphones, the limit's at around
4-5MP.

Of course, many people don't notice this, partly because they're not
really serious photographers, but also shooting under favorable
conditions: a nice sunny day, etc. Marginal and low light are
frequently auto-compensated for with higher ISO, and a higher ISO is
another way in which the photon collection rate S/N problem comes to
light. This is easy to test for yourself with a digital camera with
which you have full manual control...assuming of course that you
actually know what "noise" looks like in an image. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_noise
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glos...g/Noise_01.htm
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=pixels
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/key=Pixel_Quality


-hh

"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-CD0056.19060901112007@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net...
> nobody has done multi-touch before

Mmm... OK.

> nobody has done a real browser in a
> cell phone before

Yes, although there were other devices like the Nokia N800 that was touted as,
"link to your cell phone so that you can use a real web browser!" (The N800's
screen resolution is 800x480 -- more than the iPhone's). There were also some
Windows Mobile devices with 640x480 screens. But I agree that the iPhone has
done a lot to demonstrate that a higher-resolution screen and more
full-featured web browser is quite useful on a phone-type device.

What I'm saying here is that the browser in the iPhone is definitely more
"evolutionary" than "revolutionary"

> nobody has done an ipod in a cell phone before.

Now that's just silly. Sure, manybe not packaged witih the phone itself, but
Palm and Windows and probably even Symbian phones have long had *many*
iPod-like media players to choose from.

> workable visual voice mail another first. super slim size, incredible
> battery life, airport mode, international mode, on and on...

All of these have appeared in other phones over time. The iPhone's main
contributation is combining them all together in a relatively seamless manner
using multi-touch. The TIME article is correct that Steve Jobs main
contribution is that he considers style & usability to be on equal footing
with technology itself.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <13in02u1hvqma07@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Joel Koltner" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The TIME article is correct that Steve Jobs main
>> contribution is that he considers style & usability to be on equal footing
>> with technology itself.
>
> Except for when he doesn't. Like his newest operating system.
>
> Steve Jobs is a little child who throws tantrums and who, when he gets
> an idea in his head, refuses to acknowledge that it might be a bad idea
> and forces his developers to implement it.
>

Yup, just like Billy Bob Gates. Jobs and Gates; two spoiled brats that
need to be spanked.

"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-FE83E1.20285901112007@mpls-nnrp-04.inet.qwest.net...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey, Oxford: who is Adele Goldberg, and what crucial role did she play
>> in Steve Jobs's world?
>
> nobody seems to know... except you. how strange.
>
> ---
Ok, I gave you the book in another post (you'll have to look it up). Now
I'll give you the page number:340. In fact, the credit for changing Steve's
world may actually go to Harold Hall who ordered Adele to do what Elmo is
speaking of. After Adele's event, Steve Jobs responded by saying "I
remember within ten minutes of seeing the graphical user interface stuff,
just knowing that every computer in the world would work this way some day.
It was so obvious."

So, back to Elmo's question: who is Adele Goldberg, and what crucial role
did she play in Steve Jobs's world?

In fact, at the time, Xerox was an investor in Apple. In fact, in the 80's,
Apple did try to license Smalltalk for use in the Lisa development (Xerox
turned them down). Steve hired Tesler away from PARC shortly after that.
It may be history to you; but I lived it.

Don

In article <a-898939.09061102112007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net>,
none <a@bc.com> wrote:

> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>
> > > Nah, they still have total flexibility. They have the option to buy part
> > > of the wireless spectrum, or they can go full WiFi, or WiMax... they can
> > > also cut deals with other cell carriers, etc. There are no blocks on the
> > > iPhone which gives Apple plenty of leverage.
> >
> > Are you aware that Apple has a 5 year exclusivity agreement with AT&T ?
> > It is not able to sell iPhOnEs to any other USA network for 5 years.
>
> it's 2 years not five.

Actually, the consumer has to obligate to a 2 year deal with AT&T. The length of
the deal between Apple and AT&T, while never officially announced, is thought to
be 5 years.

--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm

> Edge is too slow to be useful for a number of tasks... IMHO, Jobs panned
> 3G as being a power hog as the 'company line' for not including it... I
> suspect the story behind the scenes is quite different.. Most likely
> couldn't get past an engineering hurdle before they needed to launch
> it.. but I am speculating..

More likely, Jobs couldn't get a good enough deal on a 3G chipset. What
he's selling in iPhone is a combination of slightly obsolete components
(EDGE chipset, low resolution display) that he could pick up on the cheap.

>>> No GPS
>> GPS might not yet be ready for the iPhone's level of needs.

More like, Jobs couldn't get a good enough deal on a GPS chipset.

>> Ah, I think you mean GREAT PDA functionality, Apple invented PDA's so
>> this is just an extension of Apple's original dream.

Apple most certainly did not invent the PDA. The Newton was a rehash of a
Sharp product that already existed in the Japanese market. Sharp decided
to go with its far superior Zaurus architecture instead (the first model,
the PI-3000 was in 1994) and dumped the older stuff. Apple picked up the
rights to the older technology for a song, changed the firmware, and
called it Newton.

Incidentally, Steve Jobs hated Newton (it was Sculley's project, not his)
and killed it as soon as he had the chance.

Note that Sharp's 1996 Zaurus MI-10 was the first color PDA ever. I no
longer have my Zaurus PI-3000, but I still have a PI-6000 and an MI-10.

>>> No memory expansion..
>> Ah, you are forgetting how iTunes works, syncing makes for little need
>> for expansion when iTunes does this automatically.

Undoubtably, Oxford will be singing the praises of the model that allows
an external memory card.

>> VoIP is still in the formative stages. iChat does this now so it's only
>> a matter of time before it can be moved to the iPhone. Apple tends to
>> wait until the time is right, not push out inferior products before they
>> are ready.

More like, Apple missed the boat on VOIP and now can't get on board
without having to pay a huge amount of royalties to someone else.

> I use it all the time.. more so than the standard cell phone... Voice
> quality is perfectly fine... Again, the reason was probably more
> dependent on ATT not wanting the iPhone to circumvent their 'per minute'
> plans than any view that VOIP is an immature technology..

Another reason why iPhone is not 3G. Skype works fine on 3G, but not on
EDGE.

>>> Touch Screen?
>> Yes, it's the best on the market.

Tell that to a Nokia N800 owner who has a touch screen with twice as many
pixels, or a user of a UMPC who has a touch screen with four times as many
pixels.

You don't have to do all that zooming and unzooming if you have enough
pixels.

> Like everything else, we will see.. Remember the Newton? The Lisa?
> They were all visions of the future, Apple will show the world, etc...

It'll be fun to watch the hew and cry and tearing of hair when iPhone is
cancelled.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

On Nov 1, 7:22 pm, Oxford <colalovesm...@smart.com> wrote:
> Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>
> iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine
>
> This goes without question of course, nothing so remarkable has ever
> been introduced to the phone market probably since the rotary dial or
> original phone back in 1876.

Okay, I went to Wal*mart and bought a rotary phone and answering
machine for 30 bucks.

turns out they are right

That only leaves a small fridge. That's a luxary item for sodas. I
may
check at Goodwill, tomorrow.

mk5000

"battery 1-12.2V battery 2-11.6V
About an hour after the last check, the stereo was no longer
picking
up the radio station and the lights were dimmer. The whole time, the
monitor showed batteries as being at rock-bottom."--vw in ca

At 02 Nov 2007 17:26:35 -0400 Don Udel (ETC) wrote:
> In fact, the credit for changing Steve's
> world may actually go to Harold Hall who ordered Adele to do what Elmo
is
> speaking of.


IIRC the PBS documentary on the subject correctly, Dr. Goldberg cautioned
her employers NOT to make her do what she did, having the foresight to
know that their guests might pick up the ball and run with it, as they
eventually did.

In article <elmop-B58F59.22030002112007@nntp1.usenetserver.com>,
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

> In article <fgg4mh02doc@enews1.newsguy.com>,
> "Don Udel \(ETC\)" <donudel@ellijay.com> wrote:
>
> > It may be history to you; but I lived it.
>
> And an absolutely fascinating piece of history it is.
>
> I hope one day to have the opportunity to meet Gary Starkweather.
>
> Hey, Oxford: who is Gary Starkweather, and what crucial role did HE
> play in Steve Jobs's life?

Wasn't that during a sexual exploration stage of his life?

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

In article <A7rWi.17908$JD.15681@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net >,
"LHA" <nobody@nobody1.com1> wrote:

> "Oxford" <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote in message
> news:colalovesmacs-6DD99A.14373101112007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
> > iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine
>
> A magazine for liberal idiots, run by liberal idiots.

What's a good one for conservative idiots?

--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"

Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:

> > Edge is too slow to be useful for a number of tasks... IMHO, Jobs panned
> > 3G as being a power hog as the 'company line' for not including it... I
> > suspect the story behind the scenes is quite different.. Most likely
> > couldn't get past an engineering hurdle before they needed to launch
> > it.. but I am speculating..
>
> More likely, Jobs couldn't get a good enough deal on a 3G chipset. What
> he's selling in iPhone is a combination of slightly obsolete components
> (EDGE chipset, low resolution display) that he could pick up on the cheap.

no it's well documented that 3G chips run too hot/consume too much power
to be useable as of yet.

> >>> No GPS
> >> GPS might not yet be ready for the iPhone's level of needs.
>
> More like, Jobs couldn't get a good enough deal on a GPS chipset.

well, it's probably related to the upcoming spectrum sale, GPS doesn't
go through roofs / walls, but apple probably has a plan to get around
that so they are holding out for something better.

> >> Ah, I think you mean GREAT PDA functionality, Apple invented PDA's so
> >> this is just an extension of Apple's original dream.
>
> Apple most certainly did not invent the PDA. The Newton was a rehash of a
> Sharp product that already existed in the Japanese market. Sharp decided
> to go with its far superior Zaurus architecture instead (the first model,
> the PI-3000 was in 1994) and dumped the older stuff. Apple picked up the
> rights to the older technology for a song, changed the firmware, and
> called it Newton.

mark, you make everyone laugh with ignorance like that, Apple certainly
did create the first PDA, they even coined the term!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sculley

apple's newton even to this day is more advanced than most PDA's, apple
innovated hard on the PDA and still own plenty of patents that nobody
else can use for a few more years.

> Incidentally, Steve Jobs hated Newton (it was Sculley's project, not his)
> and killed it as soon as he had the chance.

correct. "i don't like scribbly things" is a well known quote... he was
back for about a year then when he cleared out all the old macs, the
newton went with them.

> Note that Sharp's 1996 Zaurus MI-10 was the first color PDA ever. I no
> longer have my Zaurus PI-3000, but I still have a PI-6000 and an MI-10.

yes, but those were crap compared to the newton.

> >>> No memory expansion..
> >> Ah, you are forgetting how iTunes works, syncing makes for little need
> >> for expansion when iTunes does this automatically.
>
> Undoubtably, Oxford will be singing the praises of the model that allows
> an external memory card.

well, you really don't need more memory when you have iTunes doing all
the syncing. Auto sync is a marvel, so having a fixed 8GB is about 4
times more than most smartphones so it's not a problem.

> >> VoIP is still in the formative stages. iChat does this now so it's only
> >> a matter of time before it can be moved to the iPhone. Apple tends to
> >> wait until the time is right, not push out inferior products before they
> >> are ready.
>
> More like, Apple missed the boat on VOIP and now can't get on board
> without having to pay a huge amount of royalties to someone else.

no, apple has had VoIP since the mid 90's, it's just when the time is
right is when Apple will enter. They don't rush things so it's better
for the consumer that way.

> > I use it all the time.. more so than the standard cell phone... Voice
> > quality is perfectly fine... Again, the reason was probably more
> > dependent on ATT not wanting the iPhone to circumvent their 'per minute'
> > plans than any view that VOIP is an immature technology..
>
> Another reason why iPhone is not 3G. Skype works fine on 3G, but not on
> EDGE.

yes, but you rarely on are on EDGE with an iPhone, it uses normal WiFi
so 90% of the time you don't need 3G.

> >>> Touch Screen?
> >> Yes, it's the best on the market.
>
> Tell that to a Nokia N800 owner who has a touch screen with twice as many
> pixels, or a user of a UMPC who has a touch screen with four times as many
> pixels.

yes, but the screen quality is poor on the N800, touch doesn't respond
well, you still have to use a stylus, no multi-touch so it's quite
worthless if you want a higher quality screen / more responsive touch
screen.

> You don't have to do all that zooming and unzooming if you have enough
> pixels.

in other words, Nokia doesn't have Core Graphics / Core Animation so
they are kinda stuck in the 90's compared to the iPhone / OSX.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_Animation

> > Like everything else, we will see.. Remember the Newton? The Lisa?
> > They were all visions of the future, Apple will show the world, etc...
>
> It'll be fun to watch the hew and cry and tearing of hair when iPhone is
> cancelled.

considering it's by far the best selling smartphone that won't happen
for 20-40 or more years. the UK and Germany come online in just 7 Days!

so there's another 500,000 that first month. the iPhone will be known as
the primary cell/smartphone people of the world use from here on out.

you can get ready here:

http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/easysetup/getready.html

http://www.apple.com/de/iphone/easysetup/getready.html


-

"Joel Koltner" <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > nobody has done an ipod in a cell phone before.
>
> Now that's just silly. Sure, manybe not packaged witih the phone itself, but
> Palm and Windows and probably even Symbian phones have long had *many*
> iPod-like media players to choose from.

ipod "like" but not an ipod, so that's a huge difference for the user.

Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:

> >> No user-replaceable battery
> >
> > Incorrect, it's $20 for a user to replace the iPhone battery
>
> Doesn't it require the user to send the phone in to Apple, and then pay
> for a rental iPhone if they cannot be without one for more than 10 days?
> or has Apple changed their stance on it? I did say 'user-replaceable'...

why would you do that? the iphone is just like the ipod, it's $20 for a
new battery after 3-5 years, there are tons of video instructions on how
to do it.

yes, apple does offer a 3 day concierge service with use of a loaner
phone, but that's just for people willing to spend an extra $60 for the
convenience.

but sure, most people will do it themselves, just like any other ipod.
or get a new one in 3-4 years anyway and let someone buy it for $200 and
replace the battery on their own. then they have a $220 iphone for the
next 3-4 year rotation, repeat.

art.shapiro@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:

> >iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine
>
> So why are you cross-posting this to every group and its mother? I'm seeing
> this on the T-Mobile group, which I believe doesn't support that contraption.

not sure what you mean. only groups affected by the iPhone were included.

remember, this is USENET... love it or leave it. you have a choice...

Simon Templar <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote:

> > So why are you cross-posting this to every group and its mother? I'm
> > seeing
> > this on the T-Mobile group, which I believe doesn't support that
> > contraption.
> >
> > Art
>
> Ah, yes. I believe it would be called SPAMMING.

incorrect. spamming is sending out massive waves of non-topical
information.

while news & information about the iphone is important to all of us.

you can learn more here:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/gettings...uidedtour.html

Oxford wrote:
> incorrect. spamming is sending out massive waves of non-topical
> information.
>
> while news & information about the iphone is important to all of us.

CRAP iPhone is important to bugger all people. I am happy with my
Nokia, so PISS OFF and stop SPAMMING!

> you can learn more here:
>
> http://www.rottenapple.com/iphone/ge...uidedtour.html


--
The views I present are that of my own and NOT of any organisation I may
belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
<http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/client_search.client_lookup?pCLIENT_NO=157452>

Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote:

> art.shapiro@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
>
> > >iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine
> >
> > So why are you cross-posting this to every group and its mother? I'm
> > seeing this on the T-Mobile group, which I believe doesn't support that
> > contraption.
>
> not sure what you mean. only groups affected by the iPhone were included.

Incorrect.

You included comp.sys.mac.advocacy which has no relevence to the iPhone
whatsoever.

--

Immunity is better than innoculation.

Peter

>
> incorrect. spamming is sending out massive waves of non-topical
> information.
>
> while news & information about the iphone is important to all of us.
>
> you can learn more here:
>
> http://www.apple.com/iphone/gettings...uidedtour.html

Actually considering that you posted this in newsgroups that have
nothing to do with apple, or att wireless I am thinking that it is
indeed spam.

One definition of spamming says this: the use of mailing lists to
blanket Usenet groups or private e-mail boxes with indiscrimination,
unsolicited messages of a promotional nature.

Looking at the group of newsgroups that are receiving your
'information', lets see there is verizon, nokia, t-mobile, and
sprintpcs. hmm checking for iphones in those newsgroups.... nope no
iphones made by nokia, or for verizon t-mobile or sprintpcs... next
time, please be considerate enough to limit your 'information' to
those groups that would actually desire information on such a phone.
Thank you very much for your consideration.

notinuse2@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:

> > not sure what you mean. only groups affected by the iPhone were included.
>
> Incorrect.
>
> You included comp.sys.mac.advocacy which has no relevence to the iPhone
> whatsoever.

ah, it runs OSX so there is a strong connection.

Gene Jones wrote:

> Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>> No MMS messages
>
> not needed by 99% of users
>
>> No 3G
>
> kills battery life, WiFi is much faster and more common / free.
>
>> No GPS
>
> GPS might not yet be ready for the iPhone's level of needs.
>
>> No user-replaceable battery
>
> Incorrect, it's $20 for a user to replace the iPhone battery
>
>> Poor PDA functionality
>
> Ah, I think you mean GREAT PDA functionality, Apple invented PDA's so
> this is just an extension of Apple's original dream.
>
>> Restrictive terms of use...
>
> ? Use is the exact same as any smartphone.
>
>> No memory expansion..
>
> Ah, you are forgetting how iTunes works, syncing makes for little need
> for expansion when iTunes does this automatically.
>
>> Have to PAY for ringtones?
>
> no you don't, use iToner.
>
> http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/itoner/
>
>> 2 Megapixel Camera
>
> Megapixels have little to do with image quality, the Lens in the iPhone
> is higher grade than most any smartphone or cellphone.
>
>> No output to TV
>
> Apple offers cables to output TV from any iPhone or (most) any iPod.
>
>> VOIP?
>
> VoIP is still in the formative stages. iChat does this now so it's only
> a matter of time before it can be moved to the iPhone. Apple tends to
> wait until the time is right, not push out inferior products before they
> are ready.
>
>> Touch Screen?
>
> Yes, it's the best on the market. The Multi-Touch tech is a revolution
> that only Apple will have for the next 17 years. The use of "Gestures"
> has been a long held research project of Apple. Even the CEO of MS was
> shocked / impressed by how good Apple did it with the iPhone.
>
> Flicking through data with a single finger is unreal. The future of all
> phones in the 18 year time frame.
>
> -----


Apple really didn't invent anything. Just marketed ideas, some dating back
to the late 60's. Your real browser as it were, is based on KHTML which
belongs to the KDE community. I couldn't consider a browser, regardless of
rendering engine, being viewed on a screen only a tiny fraction the area of
a typical 19" monitor, "real" browsing.
As far as wifi, the reason it typically draws less current is because most
of them put out less than 100mw and you need to be within 500 feet of a
Latte as it were for it to do any good. Cellular devices typically can
output ten times that at 850mhz and twenty times that on 1.9ghz. There is
no free lunch here. Power dissipation in watts is power dissipation and it
does not matter how you arrived at a specific power dissipation. Of course
if you are closer to a cell tower, the tower controls the output of your
device and throttles it back. Translation: In a weaker area, you will use
more battery power. With WiFi, it won't use much power because it doesn't
have it to use in the first place. I do like the WiFi and the SIP phone
feature of my chosen Multimedia Cellular device though so I'm not totally
bashing WiFi.

Seeing as how the rate of change is quite high these days, was 70% a year
back in the 70's and I'm sure it is mind numbingly fast these days, there
is no accurate way to predict what will be in vogue for the next decade or
more and nothing that is used in the iPhone is earth shattering, it is a
collection of existing technology with a marketing trademark slapped on it
and a HUGE advertising budget. To me, if it had a holographic virtual
screen and virtual keyboard as well as virtual touch on the virtual screen
in thin air rather than on the physical device itself, THEN it would be
revolutionary. The problem with all these small multimedia gadjets is that
you are limited to real estate a third the size of a paperback book, sorry
but this won't do.


Dave


Dave

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007, Peter Hayes wrote:
> You included comp.sys.mac.advocacy which has no relevence to the iPhone
> whatsoever.

As comp.sys.mac.advocacy is the hangout of the Apple fanboys, it is
precisely the correct place where debunking of Apple fanboy propaganda
needs to take place.

If you don't like it, then keep your fanboy sewage off the Verizon, Nokia,
T-Mobile, and Sprint PCS newsgroups.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-24CBDA.21402702112007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net...
> Simon Templar <usenet@vk3xem.net> wrote:
>
>> > So why are you cross-posting this to every group and its mother? I'm
>> > seeing
>> > this on the T-Mobile group, which I believe doesn't support that
>> > contraption.
>> >
>> > Art
>>
>> Ah, yes. I believe it would be called SPAMMING.
>
> incorrect. spamming is sending out massive waves of non-topical
> information.
>
> while news & information about the iphone is important to all of us.
>

Hey asshole!!

The iPhone drivel isn't wanted in a Verizon newsgroup.

YOU and your sock puppet nom de jours post in this
and the other non-Apple newsgroups to primarily TROLL.

We don't want it - kindly fuck off.

"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-45E56D.21365102112007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net...
> art.shapiro@unisys.com (Arthur Shapiro) wrote:
>
>> >iPhone is the invention of the YEAR - TIME Magazine
>>
>> So why are you cross-posting this to every group and its mother? I'm
>> seeing
>> this on the T-Mobile group, which I believe doesn't support that
>> contraption.
>
> not sure what you mean. only groups affected by the iPhone were included.
>
> remember, this is USENET... love it or leave it. you have a choice...

Hey asshole!!

The iPhone drivel isn't wanted in a Verizon newsgroup.

YOU and your sock puppet nom de jours post in this
and the other non-Apple newsgroups to primarily TROLL.

We don't want it - kindly fuck off.

Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote:

> notinuse2@btinternet.com (Peter Hayes) wrote:
>
> > > not sure what you mean. only groups affected by the iPhone were included.
> >
> > Incorrect.
> >
> > You included comp.sys.mac.advocacy which has no relevence to the iPhone
> > whatsoever.
>
> ah, it runs OSX so there is a strong connection.

No, it's like spamming performance vehicle newsgroups with posts about
the Ford Transit just because they both run on petrol.

--

Immunity is better than innoculation.

Peter

Ness Net wrote:<nothing but iPhone drivel>

Keep your iPhone drivel elsewhere, perhaps someone might actually give a
rip-most of us do not.