One of your customers has been repeatedly spamming the alt.cellular.attws
newsgroup with the charter for alt.cellular.cingular. He has been repeatedly
asked to stop doing this. He has refused. Further, other members have become
angry about it and he has declared he is posting the charter to what amounts
to reasons of spite.
Can you please take recommended action to stop this abuse.
Thank you. Headers follow for the most recent offending post:
Path:
uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!postnews.google.com!news2.google.com!new s.glorb
..com!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!c2a031c
6!not-for-mail
From: John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com>
Organization: The Navas Group <http://navasgroup.com>
Newsgroups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.attws
Subject: CHARTER of alt.cellular.cingular
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <21juj.622511$kj1.68930@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 07ca9e718313ac3ffc27eb0cfd700b02
X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net
X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1203354814
07ca9e718313ac3ffc27eb0cf
d700b02 (Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:13:34 GMT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:13:34 GMT
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:13:35 GMT
Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.cellular.cingular:86292 alt.cellular.attws:60542
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Dear AT&T Abuse:
>
> One of your customers has been repeatedly spamming the alt.cellular.attws
> newsgroup with the charter for alt.cellular.cingular. He has been repeatedly
> asked to stop doing this. He has refused. Further, other members have become
> angry about it and he has declared he is posting the charter to what amounts
> to reasons of spite.
>
> Can you please take recommended action to stop this abuse.
>
> Thank you. Headers follow for the most recent offending post:
It's rare that an ISP will do anything about spamming to Usenet, unless
it's threatening or illegal in some way. Navas is obnoxious and
annoying, but he's harmless, especially because no one believes anything
he posts.
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
> It's rare that an ISP will do anything about spamming to Usenet, unless
> it's threatening or illegal in some way. Navas is obnoxious and
> annoying, but he's harmless, especially because no one believes anything
> he posts.
I have my doubts as well. But at least there is a LONG history of his abuse
and a LONG history of protest against it. Perhaps, if we are really lucky,
AT&T will warn him to cease and desist, but I am not holding my breath.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 08:22:32 -0800, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <47bb019c$0$36401$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> Dear AT&T Abuse:
>>
>> One of your customers has been repeatedly spamming the alt.cellular.attws
>> newsgroup with the charter for alt.cellular.cingular. He has been repeatedly
>> asked to stop doing this. He has refused. Further, other members have become
>> angry about it and he has declared he is posting the charter to what amounts
>> to reasons of spite.
>>
>> Can you please take recommended action to stop this abuse.
>>
>> Thank you. Headers follow for the most recent offending post:
>
>It's rare that an ISP will do anything about spamming to Usenet, unless
>it's threatening or illegal in some way. Navas is obnoxious and
>annoying, but he's harmless, especially because no one believes anything
>he posts.
Nothing about these posts is in any way abusive, which is of course why
Thomas has to make something up to try to bolster his nonexistent case.
--
Best regards,
John Navas <http:/navasgroup.com>
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
On 19 Feb 2008 16:50:05 GMT, "Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@gmail.com>
wrote in <620fltF20u6vqU1@mid.individual.net>:
>SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's rare that an ISP will do anything about spamming to Usenet, unless
>> it's threatening or illegal in some way. Navas is obnoxious and
>> annoying, but he's harmless, especially because no one believes anything
>> he posts.
>
>I have my doubts as well. But at least there is a LONG history of his abuse
>and a LONG history of protest against it. Perhaps, if we are really lucky,
>AT&T will warn him to cease and desist, but I am not holding my breath.
You are just being an abusive.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Thomas T. Veldhouse.
--
Best regards,
John Navas <http:/navasgroup.com>
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>and a LONG history of protest against it. Perhaps, if we are really lucky,
>>AT&T will warn him to cease and desist, but I am not holding my breath.
>
> You are just being an abusive.
> Hypocrisy, thy name is Thomas T. Veldhouse.
>
I am being abusive? How? By asking you to stop posting the invalid charter.
You refuse. I post more assertively, this time with contact information for
others to directly ask you to cease and desist. You still refuse. In fact,
you bargain with people here and use your abuse as leverage indicating that if
people quit debating you on certain subjects then you will quit posting the
invalid charter. So, in fact, you ADMIT that you post an invalid charter and
only continue to post it because you didn't get your way.
I am sorry, but it is YOU that has abused this group. I have simply tried to
get you to stop.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>
>>It's rare that an ISP will do anything about spamming to Usenet, unless
>>it's threatening or illegal in some way. Navas is obnoxious and
>>annoying, but he's harmless, especially because no one believes anything
>>he posts.
>
> Nothing about these posts is in any way abusive, which is of course why
> Thomas has to make something up to try to bolster his nonexistent case.
>
What did I make up? I posted the exact message that I sent them, here, in
this group. Are you telling me that the message is false?
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
Thomas T. Veldhouse <veldy71@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear AT&T Abuse:
>
BTW ... I recommend that other posters here also send a similar message to
AT&T with your complaints [use your own words], assuming others here would
also like to see the illegitimate charter posting ceased.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Thomas T. Veldhouse <veldy71@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear AT&T Abuse:
>>
>
> BTW ... I recommend that other posters here also send a similar message to
> AT&T with your complaints [use your own words], assuming others here would
> also like to see the illegitimate charter posting ceased.
>
If you look into other groups on Usenet, you will see that ISPs do not
seem to care about verbal abuse, racial slurs, spamming, pornography,
etc.. What John is doing is far less offensive. I would recommend that
rather than waste time and become frustrated trying to get an ISP to do
anything, simply killfile any poster you wish to neither hear from nor
converse with.
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 15:32:59 -0500, Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote in
<P62dnUBw_7hhoSbanZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> Thomas T. Veldhouse <veldy71@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear AT&T Abuse:
>>
>> BTW ... I recommend that other posters here also send a similar message to
>> AT&T with your complaints [use your own words], assuming others here would
>> also like to see the illegitimate charter posting ceased.
>
>If you look into other groups on Usenet, you will see that ISPs do not
>seem to care about verbal abuse, racial slurs, spamming, pornography,
>etc.. What John is doing is far less offensive. I would recommend that
>rather than waste time and become frustrated trying to get an ISP to do
>anything, simply killfile any poster you wish to neither hear from nor
>converse with.
Good advice.
--
Best regards,
John Navas <http:/navasgroup.com>
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
> If you look into other groups on Usenet, you will see that ISPs do not
> seem to care about verbal abuse, racial slurs, spamming, pornography,
> etc.. What John is doing is far less offensive. I would recommend that
> rather than waste time and become frustrated trying to get an ISP to do
> anything, simply killfile any poster you wish to neither hear from nor
> converse with.
I don't universally find his posts worthless or abusive. But his charter I
do. And further, ignoring something is implicit legitimization and I am not
granting that.
Having said that, all I can do is ask his NSP to intervene, or continue to
post the response asking him to cease and desist with any information in it to
help others ask him to do the same.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>> If you look into other groups on Usenet, you will see that ISPs do not
>> seem to care about verbal abuse, racial slurs, spamming, pornography,
>> etc.. What John is doing is far less offensive. I would recommend that
>> rather than waste time and become frustrated trying to get an ISP to do
>> anything, simply killfile any poster you wish to neither hear from nor
>> converse with.
>
> I don't universally find his posts worthless or abusive. But his charter I
> do. And further, ignoring something is implicit legitimization and I am not
> granting that.
>
> Having said that, all I can do is ask his NSP to intervene, or continue to
> post the response asking him to cease and desist with any information in it to
> help others ask him to do the same.
>
Then , another possible path would be to create a rule in your
newsreader to trash any post with the subject of: "CHARTER of
alt.cellular.cingular".. Just a thought, would accomplish pretty much
what you are looking for, with a whole lot less frustration for you..
Read his postings in other groups. It's not just one group that hates him.
The guy is not playing with a full deck.
"Tony" <tony@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:P62dnUBw_7hhoSbanZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> Thomas T. Veldhouse <veldy71@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear AT&T Abuse:
>>>
>>
>> BTW ... I recommend that other posters here also send a similar message
>> to
>> AT&T with your complaints [use your own words], assuming others here
>> would
>> also like to see the illegitimate charter posting ceased.
>>
>
> If you look into other groups on Usenet, you will see that ISPs do not
> seem to care about verbal abuse, racial slurs, spamming, pornography,
> etc.. What John is doing is far less offensive. I would recommend that
> rather than waste time and become frustrated trying to get an ISP to do
> anything, simply killfile any poster you wish to neither hear from nor
> converse with.
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:17:31 -0500, Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote in
<O5CdnVRnOJLx2ibanZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> If you look into other groups on Usenet, you will see that ISPs do not
>>> seem to care about verbal abuse, racial slurs, spamming, pornography,
>>> etc.. What John is doing is far less offensive. I would recommend that
>>> rather than waste time and become frustrated trying to get an ISP to do
>>> anything, simply killfile any poster you wish to neither hear from nor
>>> converse with.
>>
>> I don't universally find his posts worthless or abusive. But his charter I
>> do. And further, ignoring something is implicit legitimization and I am not
>> granting that.
>>
>> Having said that, all I can do is ask his NSP to intervene, or continue to
>> post the response asking him to cease and desist with any information in it to
>> help others ask him to do the same.
>
>Then , another possible path would be to create a rule in your
>newsreader to trash any post with the subject of: "CHARTER of
>alt.cellular.cingular".. Just a thought, would accomplish pretty much
>what you are looking for, with a whole lot less frustration for you..
You're wasting your effort. It should be obvious that he's not trying
for less frustration -- he's a vigilante trying to impose his own will
on me by means of abusive conduct intended to coerce me, notwithstanding
the impact on others, which is both arrogant and hypocritical.
--
Best regards,
John Navas <http:/navasgroup.com>
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> Then , another possible path would be to create a rule in your
> newsreader to trash any post with the subject of: "CHARTER of
> alt.cellular.cingular".. Just a thought, would accomplish pretty much
> what you are looking for, with a whole lot less frustration for you..
>
Like I said, ignoring is posting of the charter from another newsgroup here is
the same as legitimizing the post, so I choose not to ignore it. Yes, I could
filter it out. I use my score file fairly liberally for many posters,
although I don't believe any posters from this group are in it. The problem
is that John must STOP POSTING HIS CHARTER here. He knows it is wrong; but
his personality seems to be preventing him from doing the right thing
unfortunately.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
> You're wasting your effort. It should be obvious that he's not trying
> for less frustration -- he's a vigilante trying to impose his own will
> on me by means of abusive conduct intended to coerce me, notwithstanding
> the impact on others, which is both arrogant and hypocritical.
>
Abusive conduct? Why do you post an invalid charter here? Further, why do
you set all follow-ups to your posts to go to alt.cellular.cingular. This
thread is about your illicit posting of the cingular charter in THIS newsgroup
and the discussion does not belong in the cingular group. Yet, you
intentially follow-up to the other group, post that other groups charter here
..... all in what appears to be a lame attempt at preventing the inevitable
decrease in posting volume of alt.cellular.cingular ... but I can only guess
at your reasons for doing it.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
Kevin Weaver wrote:
> Read his BS then come back and say that again.
>
> Read his postings in other groups. It's not just one group that hates
> him. The guy is not playing with a full deck.
>
>> If you look into other groups on Usenet, you will see that ISPs do not
>> seem to care about verbal abuse, racial slurs, spamming, pornography,
>> etc.. What John is doing is far less offensive. I would recommend
>> that rather than waste time and become frustrated trying to get an ISP
>> to do anything, simply killfile any poster you wish to neither hear
>> from nor converse with.
>
The ISP will NOT do anything about it, pure and simple.. I WILL say it
again, killfile it if you do not want to see it... For me, I simply
haven't had the time to read any of them, I just select those items that
interest me.. and ignore the rest.. The signal to noise ratio in this
group is better by a magnitude than most...
The fact of the matter is, you can choose to get yourself cranked up,
angry, frustrated, trying to control or manage something you have no
control over.. or simply killfile it, never see it, and go on with your
life, oblivious to his existence.. John, apparently is here to stay, and
there is little you can say or do to change his behavior..
If you wish to have the ability to control who enters this forum, or
what is posted here, simply take the forum to a privately hosted place
and run it.. The days of moderated Usenet died long ago, about the same
time the Internet was no longer the sole realm for us older geeks with
shell accounts, command lines, Archie, Veronica, and Gopher, and dial up
modems.... It's a lawless web out there..
There is plenty in life to stress about, why deliberately choose to add
to that stress?
I move that we nominate Navas as the "Benevolent Newsgoup Troll". Maybe if
he has an official position he will cease his childish antics. Does anyone
second the motion?
Jar-Jar
"Thomas T. Veldhouse" <veldy71@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:620jkfF1vs8ihU1@mid.individual.net...
> John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>>>and a LONG history of protest against it. Perhaps, if we are really
>>>lucky,
>>>AT&T will warn him to cease and desist, but I am not holding my breath.
>>
>> You are just being an abusive.
>> Hypocrisy, thy name is Thomas T. Veldhouse.
>>
>
> I am being abusive? How? By asking you to stop posting the invalid
> charter.
> You refuse. I post more assertively, this time with contact information
> for
> others to directly ask you to cease and desist. You still refuse. In
> fact,
> you bargain with people here and use your abuse as leverage indicating
> that if
> people quit debating you on certain subjects then you will quit posting
> the
> invalid charter. So, in fact, you ADMIT that you post an invalid charter
> and
> only continue to post it because you didn't get your way.
>
> I am sorry, but it is YOU that has abused this group. I have simply tried
> to
> get you to stop.
>
> --
> Thomas T. Veldhouse
>
> In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful
> Dead.
> -- Egyptian Book of the Dead
Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>> There is plenty in life to stress about, why deliberately choose to add
>> to that stress?
>
> I don't know. Ask John Novas.
>
When I first read this, I thought 'what a childish attitude this is'..
It is hardly worthy of being responded to..
John Navas has 'zero' control of your actions, attitudes, and life..
which is the same amount of control, which you have found to be true,
you have on his..
John is not deliberately adding any stress to your life, by letting his
actions control you , YOU are making the decision to add to the stress..
This whole situation is hardly worth the angst it is causing anyone
here, it borders on Elementary School Playground garbage..
Ignore him, if you like.. Walk away.. Do not engage him in
conversation.. Kill file him, filter it.. When one method is doomed to
failure (emails to abuse@*.*), simply change your course and find
another solution..
I haven't really counted the numbers of messages posted by John, or the
even bothered to read this grossly offensive charter people are up in
arms about, but the complaining about him seems to be making up more
noise in this forum that any of those posts..
With that having been said, I am done, I had responded in this thread
with the sincere intention to help you solve your problem, instead it is
obvious you really have no desire to solve it, and seem to enjoy
complaining.. Any more messages about this, the authors will find
themselves in my killfile.. This is just childish..
"Tony" <tony@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:9uCdnfEpmIT8FSHanZ2dnUVZ_rWtnZ2d@giganews.com ...
> Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
>> Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> There is plenty in life to stress about, why deliberately choose to add
>>> to that stress?
>>
>> I don't know. Ask John Novas.
>>
>
> When I first read this, I thought 'what a childish attitude this is'.. It
> is hardly worthy of being responded to..
>
> John Navas has 'zero' control of your actions, attitudes, and life.. which
> is the same amount of control, which you have found to be true, you have
> on his..
>
> John is not deliberately adding any stress to your life, by letting his
> actions control you , YOU are making the decision to add to the stress..
> This whole situation is hardly worth the angst it is causing anyone here,
> it borders on Elementary School Playground garbage..
>
> Ignore him, if you like.. Walk away.. Do not engage him in conversation..
> Kill file him, filter it.. When one method is doomed to failure (emails to
> abuse@*.*), simply change your course and find another solution..
>
> I haven't really counted the numbers of messages posted by John, or the
> even bothered to read this grossly offensive charter people are up in arms
> about, but the complaining about him seems to be making up more noise in
> this forum that any of those posts..
>
> With that having been said, I am done, I had responded in this thread with
> the sincere intention to help you solve your problem, instead it is
> obvious you really have no desire to solve it, and seem to enjoy
> complaining.. Any more messages about this, the authors will find
> themselves in my killfile.. This is just childish..
>
>
> Thank You..
>
>
>
>
>
Tony <tony@nospam.net> wrote:
>
> Ignore him, if you like.. Walk away.. Do not engage him in
> conversation.. Kill file him, filter it.. When one method is doomed to
> failure (emails to abuse@*.*), simply change your course and find
> another solution..
>
Since neither John's or my view on this matter seems to be of any concern to
you and since you feel strongly enough about having to read this, why don't
you follow your own advice? I am asking an honest question, not a sarcastic
one.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
P.Schuman wrote:
> I forgot ... where are the newsgroup charters stored,
> along with the New Group announcements...
>
> BTW - I seem to recall years ago when ATT Wireless came alive,
> I may have actually asked for the newsgroup to be created on the ISP
> I was using at the time,
> and I think they may have just issued a Create for it.
and it's hard to say which newsgroup names are valid after the years of
change
from ATTWS & Cell One & Cingular
just like over at VoiceStream & T-Mobile
In alt.cellular.attws P.Schuman <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>
> and it's hard to say which newsgroup names are valid after the years of
> change
> from ATTWS & Cell One & Cingular
> just like over at VoiceStream & T-Mobile
>
>
T-Mobile is the superset of all its predecessors and is the only remaining
entity. No problem there.
AT&T is the superset of all its predecessors, including Cingular, no problem
there either. The only difference here is that people have adopted
alt.cellular.attws as the group of choice, which was technically created for
AT&T Wireless, but, since there is no charter, was easily migrated to be for
Wireless by AT&T. In either case, alt.cellular.attws makes FAR more sense
than alt.cellular.cingular.
Just my 2 cents worth ... but at one time, a couple of silver pennies could
buy an aweful lot.
--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
In the land of the dark the Ship of the Sun is driven by the Grateful Dead.
-- Egyptian Book of the Dead
John Navas - Abuse 
Linear Mode
