Lava Beds National Monument, the iPhone, AT&T & Verizon

This weekend I went on a boy scout camping trip with my son's troop to
Lava Beds National Monument, just south of the Oregon border in
California. We took AmTrak up to Klamath Falls from San Jose, then drove
down to the monument.

One parent on the trip had an iPhone, and had downloaded the camp
schedule, the park maps, the cave maps, the food menus, the list of what
to bring, etc, into his phone. Alas, the other five parents, all with
simple Verizon phones, could do none of this cool stuff.

The only advantage the Verizon users had over the iPhone user was that
we could actually use our phones as phones. There is no GSM service in
that part of California. Even though the AT&T coverage viewer shows
partner coverage at Lava Beds, there was no signal (at least on the iPhone).

The iPhone owner was telling us (jokingly) that 'if Steve Jobs had
wanted me to be able to make a call in this area, that he would have had
AT&T provide coverage here.'

In alt.cellular.verizon SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> One parent on the trip had an iPhone, and had downloaded the camp
> schedule, the park maps, the cave maps, the food menus, the list of what
> to bring, etc, into his phone. Alas, the other five parents, all with
> simple Verizon phones, could do none of this cool stuff.

My Verizon Palm 700 can do each of those things.

--
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russel

EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote in news:g1h0ee$93l$5@reader2.panix.com:

> My Verizon Palm 700 can do each of those things.
>
>

......and it will be still running in the morning, unlike the iPhone with
the dead battery...(c;

Larry wrote:
> EskWIRED@spamblock.panix.com wrote in news:g1h0ee$93l$5@reader2.panix.com:
>
>> My Verizon Palm 700 can do each of those things.
>>
>>
>
> .....and it will be still running in the morning, unlike the iPhone with
> the dead battery...(c;
>

Unfortunately, my V325i picked up an AMPS signal at some point at hung
onto it, quickly draining the battery. We were all at one bar of digital
on an extended network (not sure which one), but I had the only tri-band
phone that switched to AMPS (the rural carriers have kept it active)
when the digital signal was lost, probably inside the caves.

SMS wrote:

> Unfortunately, my V325i picked up an AMPS signal at some point at hung
> onto it, quickly draining the battery. We were all at one bar of digital
> on an extended network (not sure which one), but I had the only tri-band
> phone that switched to AMPS (the rural carriers have kept it active)
> when the digital signal was lost, probably inside the caves.

I told the iPhone guy about PagePlus, and he's going to sign up with
them for a phone to use as a phone when out of the urban area. We do a
lot of trips with this scout troop that are in areas with no GSM
coverage, but that have CDMA and/or AMPS coverage.

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in
news:O0X_j.2878$co7.860@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:

> SMS wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately, my V325i picked up an AMPS signal at some point at
>> hung onto it, quickly draining the battery. We were all at one bar of
>> digital on an extended network (not sure which one), but I had the
>> only tri-band phone that switched to AMPS (the rural carriers have
>> kept it active) when the digital signal was lost, probably inside the
>> caves.
>
> I told the iPhone guy about PagePlus, and he's going to sign up with
> them for a phone to use as a phone when out of the urban area. We do a
> lot of trips with this scout troop that are in areas with no GSM
> coverage, but that have CDMA and/or AMPS coverage.
>

Too bad ATT/Apple won't allow him to connect DUN over Bluetooth to a better
system out in the boonies.

Larry wrote:

> Too bad ATT/Apple won't allow him to connect DUN over Bluetooth to a better
> system out in the boonies.

That's true. This is one case where you'd be much better off decoupling
the PDA, web pad, tablet, notebook, etc. device from the cell phone.
However this would mean that he'd have to have a second data account on
CDMA, which isn't available under prepaid.

IMVAIO, you don't need to be on-line while camping, but it can be useful
to have cellular coverage for making calls in case of emergency. Even if
I had an iPhone (or other GSM phone) I'd want to carry a CDMA/AMPS phone
to use in case of emergency when traveling outside GSM service areas.

At 27 May 2008 14:58:48 -0700 SMS wrote:

> That's true. This is one case where you'd be much better off decoupling
> the PDA, web pad, tablet, notebook, etc. device from the cell phone.

Depends on the platform- some smartphones, particularly WinMo phones, can
connect to the internet via DUN as well as via their internal cellular radio,

so one doesn't necessarily need to lug around a separate PDA all the time-
their PDA phone can also function as a plain PDA when necessary.

> However this would mean that he'd have to have a second data
> account on CDMA, which isn't available under prepaid.

Actually PagePlus, likely via a loophole Verizon has yet to close, has
unlimited 1x (14.4kbps) data (that Verizon calls QNC, or "Quick2Net"
depending on the handset.) Unfortunately, only older handsets support
this, although some newer models can be modded to. In my case, my eBay
Samsung i600 WinMo Smartphone supports it "out of the box" so I can browse
the web (slowly) as well as send/receive POP/IMAP e-mail, and even have up-
to-date access to my contacts, calendar and tasks via Exchange. It doesn't
even count against my prepaid minutes. I can even tether my T-Mo WinMo
phone via infrared to the i600 if needed (but since the i600 duplicates
most of the T-Mo phone's important functions, I've never bothered except as
a "proof of concept.")

Obviously, if Verizon closes this "free QNC" loophole, I still have a fully
functional PagePlus phone and can update the e-mail and Exchange info, if
necessary, via a net-connected PC.

> IMVAIO...

Care to translate?


> you don't need to be on-line while camping, but it can be useful
> to have cellular coverage for making calls in case of emergency. Even if
> I had an iPhone (or other GSM phone) I'd want to carry a CDMA/AMPS
> phone to use in case of emergency when traveling outside GSM service areas.



The only disadvantage to my i600 is lack of AMPS, but that (unfortunately)
seems to be a temporary deficiency... :-( In either case, it's data
capabilities trump the slight lack of coverage the lack of AMPS represents.

Todd Allcock wrote:

> The only disadvantage to my i600 is lack of AMPS, but that (unfortunately)
> seems to be a temporary deficiency... :-( In either case, it's data
> capabilities trump the slight lack of coverage the lack of AMPS represents.

We'll see how temporary the deficiency is. Not all the CDMA/AMPS
carriers rushed to turn off AMPS, because doing so would have resulted
in a lot of lost coverage. Either they'll wait until so few AMPS capable
handsets exist that there's no reason to keep it going anymore, or
they'll wait until they are able to add enough towers to compensate for
the shorter range of CDMA (which will likely never happen in a lot of
areas).

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:Iq%_j.2750$xZ.1598
@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:

> IMVAIO, you don't need to be on-line while camping, but it can be useful
> to have cellular coverage for making calls in case of emergency. Even if
> I had an iPhone (or other GSM phone) I'd want to carry a CDMA/AMPS phone
> to use in case of emergency when traveling outside GSM service areas.
>
>

Alltel and Verizon have already shut down AMPS across SC and the South.
I'd be amazed if it's working, tonight, in those mountains, too.

I lit off my AMPS bagphone I've carried in each vehicle for years while way
out in the country last week. I got no AMPS connection on A or B anywhere.
AMPS is dead.

Data service while camping would sure come in handy to watch the various
weather services available over the phone. It comes in very handy as we
sail close offshore, too, so we know when it's best to head for safe
harbor. I like having that weather radar picture right in front of me on
the little tablet...as well as Virtual Earth's satellite photos on Maemo
Mapper coupled to the BT GPS fix.

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:g1i6up$cvr$2
@aioe.org:

> Actually PagePlus, likely via a loophole Verizon has yet to close, has
> unlimited 1x (14.4kbps) data (that Verizon calls QNC, or "Quick2Net"
> depending on the handset.)

Hmm.. Verizon must be hobbling the speed of 1X. 1X will go 110Kbps on the
Alltel system where EVDO may not be available at 700-1000Kbps.

At 28 May 2008 01:47:41 +0000 Larry wrote:
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:g1i6up$cvr$2
> @aioe.org:
>
> > Actually PagePlus, likely via a loophole Verizon has yet to close, has
> > unlimited 1x (14.4kbps) data (that Verizon calls QNC, or "Quick2Net"
> > depending on the handset.)
>
> Hmm.. Verizon must be hobbling the speed of 1X. 1X will go 110Kbps on
the
> Alltel system where EVDO may not be available at 700-1000Kbps.

Sorry- I probably have the terminology wrong- (the i600 is my first CDMA
phone! I was an AMPS and TDMA guy prior to using GSM.) I thought 1x was
the "first gen" CDMA data. This, then, would be whatever came before 1x!
(The equivalent of "CSD" on GSM and TDMA.)

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:g1iia5$pan$1
@aioe.org:

> This, then, would be whatever came before 1x!
>

We used to plug the phone cable from the XT modem into a telephone
interface box that put the audio tones from the modem out on the air via
AMPS to whatever BBS you wanted to connect to, at some blistering speed
like 1200 baud or 2400 baud or 4800 baud. Rich people with fancy modems
could get all the way up to 14.4Kbaud, but our BBS club couldn't afford
such luxuries. AMPS wouldn't do well over about 28.8 but the 56K modems
knew enough to backpedal because the phone lines wouldn't, either...(c;

Ahh...sitting for HOURS, totally enthralled, downloading the latest CP/M,
8080 machine code, TRS-DOS and those fancy new Microsoft DOS 1.0 programs
from the computer club's twin modem, PC-XT, 4.77 Mhz BBS located in a
closet at the History Department of the College of Charleston at 3AM.....

Life was much simpler, then......until someone ELSE in the house PICKED UP
THE PHONE!!!........DAMMIT!

"Daddy! I wanna call Missy!"

2 hours of downloading RUINT!

At 28 May 2008 03:37:38 +0000 Larry wrote:

> We used to plug the phone cable from the XT modem into a telephone
> interface box that put the audio tones from the modem out on the air via
> AMPS to whatever BBS you wanted to connect to, at some blistering speed
> like 1200 baud or 2400 baud or 4800 baud. Rich people with fancy modems
> could get all the way up to 14.4Kbaud, but our BBS club couldn't afford
> such luxuries. AMPS wouldn't do well over about 28.8 but the 56K modems
> knew enough to backpedal because the phone lines wouldn't, either...(c;


I'm not sure AMPS could handle anything near 28.8. Best I ever hit was 7200,
and that was with a full signal and a stiff tailwind! ;-)

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:g1iprp$k64$1@aioe.org:

> At 28 May 2008 03:37:38 +0000 Larry wrote:
>
>> We used to plug the phone cable from the XT modem into a telephone
>> interface box that put the audio tones from the modem out on the
air
>> via AMPS to whatever BBS you wanted to connect to, at some
blistering
>> speed like 1200 baud or 2400 baud or 4800 baud. Rich people with
>> fancy modems could get all the way up to 14.4Kbaud, but our BBS
club
>> couldn't afford such luxuries. AMPS wouldn't do well over about
28.8
>> but the 56K modems knew enough to backpedal because the phone
lines
>> wouldn't, either...(c;
>
>
> I'm not sure AMPS could handle anything near 28.8. Best I ever hit
> was 7200, and that was with a full signal and a stiff tailwind!
;-)
>
>
>

Spinnaker or wing 'n wing?