New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

The new Palm Pre, which runs on the new Web OS operating system, will
not work with older applications supported on the Palm Treo and other
smart phones.

Anyone was waiting to buy this heavy device with the smaller screen
than an iPhone simply because they would not have to buy all their
favorite Palm applications again are going to be shocked to find out
Palm has abandoned all the old Palm software. This is a whole new ball
game for Palm. Everyone will have to buy a new version of the old
software all over again from the Palm store.

You may be delighted to discover all your old Palm PDB files will open
on the iPhone if you add the iSilo software adapter which is only
$9.99, half of what it is for other platforms including Palm. iSilo
adds a server which can be turned on and off which makes it very easy
to transfer any kind of data to the iPhone and off the iPhone
wirelessly. It is only a click to add the iPhone to Vista as a
networked file server where you can do everything on the iPhone that
you can do with your local drives under Vista(except format). I can
even work on a document on the PC and save it directly to the iPhone
wirelessly in PDF format.

This iPhone simplicity makes more sense then developing a document
using a tiny keyboard when you have a full size keyboard on all PCs.

I can send a PDF to almost any kind of OS for others to view.

IsiloX can be even be used to send an entire web site to the iPhone
where you can browse it and access the local links and such without
even a web connection.
A neat trick.

At 12 Jan 2009 03:02:25 -0800 iPhone 3Gold wrote:

> The new Palm Pre, which runs on the new Web OS operating system,
> will not work with older applications supported on the Palm Treo and
> other smart phones.

True. Palm is moving to an all new browser/web-based OS. Sound familiar?


> You may be delighted to discover all your old Palm PDB files will open
> on the iPhone if you add the iSilo software adapter which is only
> $9.99, half of what it is for other platforms including Palm. iSilo
> adds a server which can be turned on and off which makes it very easy
> to transfer any kind of data to the iPhone and off the iPhone
> wirelessly.


"Makes it very easy" is apparently an Apple fanboy euphemism for
"required to circumvent the iPhone's inherent file handling limitations."

> It is only a click to add the iPhone to Vista as a
> networked file server where you can do everything on the iPhone that
> you can do with your local drives under Vista(except format). I can
> even work on a document on the PC and save it directly to the iPhone
> wirelessly in PDF format.

And why is this preferable to having an _editable_ document in it's
native format? This seems marginally more useful than just printing the
document and "wirelessly" shoving it in your back pocket.

> This iPhone simplicity makes more sense then developing a document
> using a tiny keyboard when you have a full size keyboard on all PCs.


No, what makes more sense is having the OPTION of entering data when and
where it's most convenient, whether that's at home in front of real
keyboard, or mobile when you actually get the data.


> I can send a PDF to almost any kind of OS for others to view.

Wow! You're cooking with gas now!

> IsiloX can be even be used to send an entire web site to the iPhone
> where you can browse it and access the local links and such without
> even a web connection.
> A neat trick.

Very neat- I remember thinking how neat that was when we used to do that
on Palm Pilots with AvantGo back in 1998... ;-)

Those app store developers will probably be upgrading you to 21st-century
technology any day now!

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in news:lJOal.45238$%
o3.10027@newsfe02.iad:

>> I can send a PDF to almost any kind of OS for others to view.
>
> Wow! You're cooking with gas now!
>
>

We'll see....(c;]

I sent him a 3-page, Xournal-annotated layered, PDF file to his gmail
account and asked him to add some text or drawing to the PDF and send it
back to me FROM HIS IPHONE, not his Mac or whatever desktop.

We'll see how that works. The PDF was 1.6M or so. At first the tablet
wouldn't load it, but I remembered, finally, that I had limited
attachements to 1000 lines and this was nearly 2400 or so so it wouldn't
read it off the server.....oops...(c;]

Xournal on maemo tablets is nothing but cool....

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/xournal/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzXFnHnFuzU

You load the pdf into it, draw on it just like the video, then EXPORT to
PDF. Any Xournal drawing, whether it started as a pdf or not, can be
exported to pdf format. Pretty cool...(c;

At 12 Jan 2009 11:22:15 -0800 4phun wrote:

> > No, what makes more sense is having the OPTION of entering data
> > when and where it's most convenient, whether that's at home in
> > front of real keyboard, or mobile when you actually get the data.
> >
>
> Well lets see. I enter data on the iPhone with my voice or by using
> the camera. I don't bother with the keyboard most of the time.

You can't speak or snap edits into an existing document.

> The voice notes can be converted to text using a voice to text
> application. The camera notes can be converted to text with another
> popular application.


Then you can cut and paste all these fragments into your documents when
you get in front of a real computer and reupload it into your phone
again, then the cycle continues- how convenient.

> Google and Vindago and many other ways are available to allow voice to
> be instantly converted to a search of the web or contacts or whatever.

That's a nice feature- I have no problem with that. What I have a
problem with are your continual announcements of ancient, commonly
available, technology _finally_ added to the iPhone as if something
wonderful was just invented. The iPhone does many things well, but it's
hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up where
it's lacking.


> Now the bit about PDF is that on the iPhone PDF's can have numerous
> pictures and active links that jump around the file in the blink of
> an eye for more information. All of this is compatible with stretch
> and zoom, auto scrolling and a world of other nice options that are
> unusable on previous smartphones due to their poor hardware or OS
> platform.

PDF support on other devices is certainly lackluster- no argument there.
But mobile PDFs are good for static reference info only, not documents
that require constant updating.

> And Todd don't think you can blow smoke I have been using them all
> since anything was available years ago.


No one could even notice my smoke in the fog you're continually creating...


> Apple got it right for the first time with their iPod Touch and
> iPhone.

No, they got it half-right. Just a different half than everyone else
did. Palm, Blackberry and Windows Mobile have the features but a lacking
UI. Apple nailed the UI, and left out the features that would benefit
from it.

> All that other crap about creating documents or the latest
> novel on a phone are from people who like the old status quo and can
> not think about what really is needed in real life.

No one is suggesting people create huge documents on a phone, but
pretending no one revises a Word doc or updates a few cells in a
spredsheet is pure apologism. Go look on Dataviz's forums and see how
many iPhone users are BEGGING them to port Docs-to-Go to the iPhone.
(Which will still be a lackluster implementation since you wouldn't be
able to email the docs unless DataViz runs one of those "convenient"
servers you couldstore documents on and link to, to get the docs on and
off the phone.)

> BTW the Palm Pre is nothing more than web widgets which the iPhone
> first had last year and made people like you sick.

Still does. However, the irony is how many times that first year we
heard the iPologists tell us how widgets were preferable to installable
apps...

....until the iPhone finally got installable apps.

Similarly, all this "old status quo" BS will evaporate when the iPhone
(inevitably) gets editable Office Doc support.

Then you'll be here telling everyone what a slick "new" idea that is, and
the wonderful new era in mobile computing we're entering because of it...

Todd Allcock wrote:

> That's a nice feature- I have no problem with that. What I have a
> problem with are your continual announcements of ancient, commonly
> available, technology _finally_ added to the iPhone as if something
> wonderful was just invented. The iPhone does many things well, but it's
> hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up where
> it's lacking.

Remember, the iPhone was never designed to be a PDA. It _is_ actually
very difficult for the developers to create seemingly simple
applications on the iPhone platform. I.e., cut and paste, and editing
Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
sought after applications in extremely high demand so if it was trivial
for the developers to create these applications they would have been
available long before now.

The iPhone was designed to be a phone, web access devices, and
music/video player. Turning it into a PDA or SmartPhone is going to take
a couple of more generations.

On Jan 12, 6:31*pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>The iPhone does many things well, but it's
>hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up where
>it's lacking.

So what is your point? Each day there are hundreds of new apps that
address some ones need. Needs are being addressed by the iPhone
platform and not on existing sub par hardware that few really want.

Each day the iPhone platform becomes more and more desirable to more
people who have hesitated at first.

Face it, Apple is on a roll. Palm Pre is far behind with little hope
of catching up. I doubt they can even catch up to Rim which is also
fairly far behind the iPhone.


No wonder the biggest carriers AT&T and Verizon didn't want a Palm Pre
and Palm had to go with Sprint.

At 12 Jan 2009 18:38:32 -0800 iPhone 3Gold wrote:

> >The iPhone does many things well, but it's
> >hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up
where
> >it's lacking.
>
> So what is your point? Each day there are hundreds of new apps that
> address some ones need. Needs are being addressed by the iPhone
> platform and not on existing sub par hardware that few really want.


My point is simply that other than pretty nifty games, most of those
"needs" are already available on other platforms, hence "catch up."


> Each day the iPhone platform becomes more and more desirable to more
> people who have hesitated at first.

Apple found a huge market- a combo iPod phone/smartphone for dummies- I'm
not suggesting it's a bad product or even picking on it, as much as I'm
picking on you for trotting out every new catch-up app as some sort of
revelation.

> Face it, Apple is on a roll. Palm Pre is far behind with little hope
> of catching up. I doubt they can even catch up to Rim which is also
> fairly far behind the iPhone.


No argument here. The Pre is too little to late, unless it lauches with
an "old Palm" emulator to provide a clean upgrade path for loyal Palm OS
holdouts.

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 12 Jan 2009 18:38:32 -0800 iPhone 3Gold wrote:
>
>>> The iPhone does many things well, but it's
>>> hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up
> where
>>> it's lacking.
>> So what is your point? Each day there are hundreds of new apps that
>> address some ones need. Needs are being addressed by the iPhone
>> platform and not on existing sub par hardware that few really want.
>
>
> My point is simply that other than pretty nifty games, most of those
> "needs" are already available on other platforms, hence "catch up."

and more fundamentally, which of the really nifty 3G apps can find a
network that covers a large percentage of the physical area of the US to
run on? Not AT&T's anyway, it looks like a mild case of acne on a map
of the US..... really not anybody's if real 3G or 4G is required.

g

In article <XuSal.8849$pr6.5092@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, SMS
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> It _is_ actually
> very difficult for the developers to create seemingly simple
> applications on the iPhone platform.

it's actually quite simple.

> I.e., cut and paste, and editing
> Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
> sought after applications in extremely high demand

what in the world gave you that idea?

> so if it was trivial
> for the developers to create these applications they would have been
> available long before now.

or it could be that there's very little demand for it.

"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:120120092219067201%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <XuSal.8849$pr6.5092@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, SMS
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> It _is_ actually
>> very difficult for the developers to create seemingly simple
>> applications on the iPhone platform.
>
> it's actually quite simple.

While the actual coding for the iPhone might be comparitively simple,
dealing with the phone's security restrictions seem less so. The
"sandboxing" of each app's data files make relatively simple concepts
difficult to execute. Take AirShare- a nice app that allows WiFi file
transfer and a document viewer in one application. Ask yourself why that's
one app and not two- simple: a standalone file transfer app wouldn't be able
to access the stored documents of the file viewing app, so they need to be
integrated. Therefore, any Docs-To-Go type app like DataViz is apparently
working on will have to integrate it's own (redundant) file transfer
mechanisms, and be unable to access docs emailed to the phone, and be unable
to email edited documents to anyone directly, seriously limiting it's
usefulness. I suspect that they will employ a cloud-based "Google Docs"
type solution, so users can receive and send links to the files via email
rather than email the documents themselves, or just leave email out of the
mix, which essentially turns its back on the way most people work with
mobile documents. There's not much point to editing a document "on the run"
if you then have to get back to your desk to copy it to your computer before
emailing it. Quickoffice just announced their spreadsheet program last
week. It edits Excel documents and transfers them to/fro the phone via WiFi
(surprise!), or via MobileMe's cloud-based drive, but conspicously _not_ via
email. "Simple!"

Similarly, any cut and paste app can't cut and paste between 3rd-party apps,
since you can't store the clipboard contents anywhere on the device it'd be
accessable to the next app. Any workable third-party CnP solution will
likely also have to be cloud-based, so a remote server can be used as an
"iPhone-legal" storage medium for the clipboard data. "Simple?" Hardly.

iPhone app development seems decidedly Java-like, since apps have to run
within the constraints of the device's sandbox made available to the app.
Like with Java, access to the internet or the file system is controlled by
the phone's security policies, but at least with (most) Java phones, users
are allowed to grant permission to do either. This seriously limits the
usefulness of many apps. Alternative PIM managers/extenders are made
difficult on the iPhone since Apple allows access to a Phonebook API, but
not to the Calendar. Other oft-requested/convenient apps are simply
verboten by policy, i.e. a alternate "real" GPS app that gives turn-by-turn
realtime directions, or works offline, or alternative media players with
support for more file formats.


>> I.e., cut and paste, and editing
>> Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
>> sought after applications in extremely high demand
>
> what in the world gave you that idea?

While the number of folks desiring a mobile Office app is probably mostly
limited to business users, you can't seriously argue that cut-and-paste
isn't a demanded feature. The large number of blog posts requesting them,
and the online surveys and polls seem to make that a no-brainer- take
http://technologizer.com/2008/09/30/...atisfaction/3/, for example,
that polled over 2000 iPhone users (mostly Mac owners.)

>> so if it was trivial
>> for the developers to create these applications they would have been
>> available long before now.
>
> or it could be that there's very little demand for it.

Yeah, that's probably it. Super Monkey Ball is really the only thing any
high-end phone truly needs...

On Jan 13, 1:45*pm, "Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
> "nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:120120092219067201%nospam@nospam.invalid...
>
> > In article <XuSal.8849$pr6.5...@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, SMS
> > <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
>

> >> I.e., cut and paste, and editing
> >> Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
> >> sought after applications in extremely high demand
>
> > what in the world gave you that idea?
>
> While the number of folks desiring a mobile Office app is probably mostly
> limited to business users, you can't seriously argue that cut-and-paste
> isn't a demanded feature. *The large number of blog posts requesting them,
> and the online surveys and polls seem to make that a no-brainer- takehttp://technologizer.com/2008/09/30/iphone-satisfaction/3/, for example,

Yes and 95% of those posts were probably from Larry.
I don't miss cut and paste.

> > While the number of folks desiring a mobile Office app is probably
> > mostly
> > limited to business users, you can't seriously argue that cut-and-paste
> > isn't a demanded feature. The large number of blog posts requesting
> > them,
> > and the online surveys and polls seem to make that a no-brainer-
> > takehttp://technologizer.com/2008/09/30/iphone-satisfaction/3/, for
> > example,
>
> Yes and 95% of those posts were probably from Larry.
> I don't miss cut and paste.


Somehow, I get the feeling you don't miss anything Apple tells you you
really don't need... ;-)

Besides, just because you don't miss it doesn't mean others don't either...

http://blog.laptopmag.com/blackberry...es-limitations

The above, of course, is presented as the absolutely worthless anecdotal
evidence it is... Much like a certain "iPhone/Android Bar Fight" gem you
posted last week!
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.cellular.attws/browse_thread/thread/9d048d94c434033c?>

Todd Allcock wrote:

>> or it could be that there's very little demand for it.
>
> Yeah, that's probably it. Super Monkey Ball is really the only thing
> any high-end phone truly needs...

It's a chicken and egg thing actually. Since the iPhone lacks some of
the most rudimentary features of a Smart Phone and PDA, businesses don't
deploy them, so the demand for those features is less than it would
otherwise be.

With iPhone sales way down, maybe Apple will decide to make the
necessary changes in the next generation to make it more business-user
friendly.

"http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/13/citigroup_says_slow_iphone_sales_may_spur_early_re fresh.html"