CozmicDebris wrote:
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
> news:O3R0j.5$RQ.4@fe111.usenetserver.com:
>
>> At 20 Nov 2007 17:53:01 -0600 CozmicDebris wrote:
>
> GPS is found on the majority of US phones. User-expandable memory is
> another shortcoming- I'm currently running my phone with a 32 gig micro
> card.
Wow! I sure would like one of those. Is that a 32gb SDHC card?
Where'd you purchase yours and how much did they hit you for it?
No, E911-compliant A-GPS is. User-accessible satellite GPS (like the
Nokia N95 or AT&T Tilt has) is a rarity. I didn't expect it have that,
but I expected BT GPS support, at least.
> User-expandable memory is
> another shortcoming- I'm currently running my phone with a 32 gig micro
> card.
Wher on Earth did youfind a32GB microSD? I thought they weren't due out
until next year? (For just a bit more than an entire iPhone costs!)
My HTC Wizard doesn't support SDHC, so I'm using a 2GB quite comfortably
(700MB still free.)
The iPhone's 8GB is roomy enough for most people- my bigger beef with
it's lack of memory slot is for quick-n-dirty file transfers. Card
readers make it easier to schlep data on and off a phone.
> But look at the real features that folks are looking for. I'll give
you
> the GPS piece, but whether I'm using the phone over EDGE ove over the
high
> speed connection, that would not affect the amount of data going across
the
> network.
Sort of- you'd be less like to download large files or do a lot of
browsing at EDGE speed than at 3G. You'd also be more likely (or
desperate!) to find a Hotspot for those uses if your cellular data was
slow!
> Voice dialinbg and expandable memory would have no impact on the
> network.
True- Voice dialing was probably left off for it's "potential
embarrassment" like the camcorder. Since the press hammered the Newton
for it's good but not perfect handwriting recognition years ago, I
suspect Apple tries to avoid any similar debacles. My phone, like most,
is a lousy "camcorder"- Apple left the video recorder feature out, because,
most likely, it sucked, like most phones. I'm guessing voice dial
suffered the same fate. Voice dial works 90% of the time for me on my
HTC- more in quiet places or if I yell at my phone like an idiot, less in
a moving car (where I need it more!)
As far as a memory card slot goes, that's like BT OBEX- it's omission
prevents trading songs!
> But if the network has the capacity to move the data, why not give the
> option to move up?
We're talking about AT&T here... ;-)
Again, I feel that giving optional levels of data plans would've
naturally given customers the desire to also have "no thank you" as an
option, and without a dataplan, Visual Voicemail- one of the
"revolutions" of the iPhone goes AWOL. (Yeah, I know any phone can get it-
I've used it myself since well before the iPhone release!)
> But AT&T really doesn't have the network to adequately provide service
for
> a phone of this type.
Fine, but like I said, once Verizon said no, what were the options? Go
"unlocked" and you lose carrier feature and advertising support, go with
Sprint or T-Mo, and you lose potential market share.
> True 3G performance is limited geographically. This
> phone screams to have even average functionality- it was rushed to
market
> and will ultimately pay for that.
Only from those of us who expected more from it. AT&T has 60 million
users who put up with that network everyday. (And I think it's perfectly
adequate, but what do I know- I use T-Mo- any network seems robust to a T-
Mo user!) Now those 60 million, most ofwhom use dumbphones can move up
to an "iPod phone." It's a convergence device that instead of marrying a
$300 PDA with a $99 phone, married an $300 iPod with one. In that respect,
it's a perfectly adequate phone. Not really a smartphont, but more of a
"savant-phone." It just "coulda been a contenda..." Sad, really.
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:zNY0j.16$152.4@fe117.usenetserver.com:
> At 21 Nov 2007 09:08:41 -0600 CozmicDebris wrote:
>
>> GPS is found on the majority of US phones.
>
> No, E911-compliant A-GPS is. User-accessible satellite GPS (like the
> Nokia N95 or AT&T Tilt has) is a rarity. I didn't expect it have
> that, but I expected BT GPS support, at least.
>
>
>> User-expandable memory is
>> another shortcoming- I'm currently running my phone with a 32 gig
>> micro card.
>
> Wher on Earth did youfind a32GB microSD? I thought they weren't due
> out until next year? (For just a bit more than an entire iPhone
> costs!)
I screwed up- the phone is capable of reading to 32 gig. It's an 8 gig
card.
>
> My HTC Wizard doesn't support SDHC, so I'm using a 2GB quite
> comfortably (700MB still free.)
>
> The iPhone's 8GB is roomy enough for most people- my bigger beef with
> it's lack of memory slot is for quick-n-dirty file transfers. Card
> readers make it easier to schlep data on and off a phone.
Exactly.
>
>
>> But look at the real features that folks are looking for. I'll give
> you
>> the GPS piece, but whether I'm using the phone over EDGE ove over the
> high
>> speed connection, that would not affect the amount of data going
>> across
> the
>> network.
>
> Sort of- you'd be less like to download large files or do a lot of
> browsing at EDGE speed than at 3G. You'd also be more likely (or
> desperate!) to find a Hotspot for those uses if your cellular data was
> slow!
Nope- I'm more apt to do whatever it is on my laptop with a data card-
it's convenient and doesn't require going on a wifi snipe hunt.
Searching for wifi is counterproductive. Being able to turn on your
phone and know that high speed data is available would eliminate the
data card and laptop option.
>
>
>> Voice dialinbg and expandable memory would have no impact on the
>> network.
>
> True- Voice dialing was probably left off for it's "potential
> embarrassment" like the camcorder. Since the press hammered the
> Newton for it's good but not perfect handwriting recognition years
> ago, I suspect Apple tries to avoid any similar debacles. My phone,
> like most, is a lousy "camcorder"- Apple left the video recorder
> feature out, because, most likely, it sucked, like most phones. I'm
> guessing voice dial suffered the same fate. Voice dial works 90% of
> the time for me on my HTC- more in quiet places or if I yell at my
> phone like an idiot, less in a moving car (where I need it more!)
I have very good luck with my voice dialing- even on BT it rarely
presents the wrong number to dial, even in the car
>
> As far as a memory card slot goes, that's like BT OBEX- it's omission
> prevents trading songs!
No need for that- iTunes already does an effective job of preventing the
sharing.
>
>
>> But if the network has the capacity to move the data, why not give
>> the option to move up?
>
> We're talking about AT&T here... ;-)
>
> Again, I feel that giving optional levels of data plans would've
> naturally given customers the desire to also have "no thank you" as an
> option, and without a dataplan, Visual Voicemail- one of the
> "revolutions" of the iPhone goes AWOL. (Yeah, I know any phone can get
> it-
> I've used it myself since well before the iPhone release!)
If you have to force people to use functionality, what does it say for
it's true usefullness?
>
>> But AT&T really doesn't have the network to adequately provide
>> service
> for
>> a phone of this type.
>
> Fine, but like I said, once Verizon said no, what were the options?
> Go "unlocked" and you lose carrier feature and advertising support, go
> with Sprint or T-Mo, and you lose potential market share.
>
>> True 3G performance is limited geographically. This
>> phone screams to have even average functionality- it was rushed to
> market
>> and will ultimately pay for that.
>
>
> Only from those of us who expected more from it.
I simply expected it to live up to the corporate hype of being the most
technologically advanced device to ever hit a cell network. It falls
far short of that mark.
> AT&T has 60 million
> users who put up with that network everyday. (And I think it's
> perfectly adequate, but what do I know- I use T-Mo- any network seems
> robust to a T- Mo user!) Now those 60 million, most ofwhom use
> dumbphones can move up to an "iPod phone." It's a convergence device
> that instead of marrying a $300 PDA with a $99 phone, married an $300
> iPod with one. In that respect, it's a perfectly adequate phone. Not
> really a smartphont, but more of a "savant-phone." It just "coulda
> been a contenda..." Sad, really.
>
>
>
>
> I screwed up- the phone is capable of reading to 32 gig. It's an 8 gig
> card.
Same as an iPhone... ;-)
> I'm more apt to do whatever it is on my laptop with a data card-
> it's convenient and doesn't require going on a wifi snipe hunt.
See, it's working already- if you were an iPhone owner, AT&T'd be
collecting the $20 for data and you wouldn't be using it! ;-)
> Searching for wifi is counterproductive. Being able to turn on your
> phone and know that high speed data is available would eliminate the
> data card and laptop option.
Frankly, EDGE works fine for me on T-Mo- I don't find the lack of 3G a
hardship. Currently if I need more speed and WiFi isn't available, I
could always remote into my desktop and use it to do whatever I need.
But it's not like I'm downloading XP Service Packs over the phone- my
remote work uses mostly e-mail, and web-based data lookup and/or entry,
with the occasional ftp or remote terminal access, and remote play
includes, well, THIS- I've made virtually every post from my Wizard using
the QMail client.
> I have very good luck with my voice dialing- even on BT it rarely
> presents the wrong number to dial, even in the car
>
In my experience it depends on the number of contacts stored- the smaller
the number, the less likely they have similar patterns- with 600 or so on
the phone, I occasionally get errors, especially between family members
or company branches, since part of the name matches.
> If you have to force people to use functionality, what does it say for
> it's true usefullness?
Again, I suspect it was done to standardize the "iPhone experience"-
Visual Voicemail is so much a part of that concept, I suspect the
decision was made to be sure all iPhones had dataplans.
"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in message
news:bM_0j.173$384.82@fe095.usenetserver.com...
> At 21 Nov 2007 10:37:22 -0600 CozmicDebris wrote:
>
>> I screwed up- the phone is capable of reading to 32 gig. It's an 8 gig
>> card.
>
> Same as an iPhone... ;-)
>
Except that Cozmic can swap cards or use bigger cards when they become
available. Of course Oxy likely swaps memory like he swaps batteries ;-)
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:bM_0j.173
$384.82@fe095.usenetserver.com:
> At 21 Nov 2007 10:37:22 -0600 CozmicDebris wrote:
>
>> I screwed up- the phone is capable of reading to 32 gig. It's an 8
gig
>> card.
>
> Same as an iPhone... ;-)
>
>
>> I'm more apt to do whatever it is on my laptop with a data card-
>> it's convenient and doesn't require going on a wifi snipe hunt.
>
> See, it's working already- if you were an iPhone owner, AT&T'd be
> collecting the $20 for data and you wouldn't be using it! ;-)
But if I were an iPhone owner and had 3G speeds, I wouldn't need the
data card. I'd save money.
>
>
>> Searching for wifi is counterproductive. Being able to turn on your
>> phone and know that high speed data is available would eliminate the
>> data card and laptop option.
>
> Frankly, EDGE works fine for me on T-Mo- I don't find the lack of 3G a
> hardship. Currently if I need more speed and WiFi isn't available, I
> could always remote into my desktop and use it to do whatever I need.
> But it's not like I'm downloading XP Service Packs over the phone- my
> remote work uses mostly e-mail, and web-based data lookup and/or
entry,
> with the occasional ftp or remote terminal access, and remote play
> includes, well, THIS- I've made virtually every post from my Wizard
using
> the QMail client.
I deal with a number of large attachments on any given day, so the
ability to pull them down quickly becomes an issue. Going on a snipe
hunt for wifi just doesn't make sense. In addition, I do sometimes
participate in internet conferences while commuting. EDGE doesn't handle
these real well.
>
>
>
>> I have very good luck with my voice dialing- even on BT it rarely
>> presents the wrong number to dial, even in the car
>>
>
> In my experience it depends on the number of contacts stored- the
smaller
> the number, the less likely they have similar patterns- with 600 or so
on
> the phone, I occasionally get errors, especially between family
members
> or company branches, since part of the name matches.
>
>> If you have to force people to use functionality, what does it say
for
>> it's true usefullness?
>
> Again, I suspect it was done to standardize the "iPhone experience"-
> Visual Voicemail is so much a part of that concept, I suspect the
> decision was made to be sure all iPhones had dataplans.
I see it as Apple trying to tell people what they need without having a
clue about the true contents of the list.
At 21 Nov 2007 14:09:33 -0500 Don Udel (ETC) wrote:
> Except that Cozmic can swap cards or use bigger cards when they become
> available. Of course Oxy likely swaps memory like he swaps
batteries ;-)
VERY funny! ;-)
On the swapping front, while that's certainly possible, I haven't done it
much since getting a one-slot device. I have too many system files (IE
cache, mail attachments, etc.) and programs intalled to make swapping
cards easy. It's more like trying to hotswap your C: drive!
Back in days of dual-slot devices, I could keep one card in permanently,
and swap out the second for maps, music, videos, etc.
I still like removable cards of course- it's far faster and easier to
swap out a few 200MB movies for a trip via card reader than by USB-cable
or BT connection to the device!
"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in message
news:%H%0j.49$X34.28@fe103.usenetserver.com...
> I still like removable cards of course- it's far faster and easier to
> swap out a few 200MB movies for a trip via card reader than by USB-cable
> or BT connection to the device!
Quite true. Back in the days of smaller cards, I'd keep the GPS maps (most
of the US) on one card, music/video on another, development tools on another
and backups on others. It's also much quicker to pop the memory into a
reader and load it directly from the laptop. The bottom line is it's good
to have options. Bluetooth transfer if you don't have the cable, USB cable
if you need to charge while you sync/copy or direct transfer for outright
speed.
For those who can handle them, more options are preferable to less options.
How many people want a Baskin Robins with 2 flavors? <g>
> But if I were an iPhone owner and had 3G speeds, I wouldn't need the
> data card. I'd save money.
Somehow, I assume neither AT&T nor Apple have placed "saving their
customers money" at the top of their To-Do list! ;-)
> I deal with a number of large attachments on any given day, so the
> ability to pull them down quickly becomes an issue. Going on a snipe
> hunt for wifi just doesn't make sense. In addition, I do sometimes
> participate in internet conferences while commuting. EDGE doesn't
handle
> these real well.
Fair enough...
> I see it as Apple trying to tell people what they need without
> having a clue about the true contents of the list.
That's a hard point to argue with! I think they've developed a certain
hubris from their success with the iPod- look how long it took for them
to add video playback to the Nano, despite the numerous number of
competitors products already offering it in that form-factor.
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:5v01j.82$mk6.60
@fe089.usenetserver.com:
> At 21 Nov 2007 13:19:41 -0600 CozmicDebris wrote:
>
>> But if I were an iPhone owner and had 3G speeds, I wouldn't need the
>> data card. I'd save money.
>
> Somehow, I assume neither AT&T nor Apple have placed "saving their
> customers money" at the top of their To-Do list! ;-)
No argument here. But I think the days of the "blind sheep" cellular
consumer are coming to an end. For a while, the technology and industry
advanced faster than most consumers could keep up with. With it now being
a mature market, consumers are much more discriminating and more
knowledgeable about services available.
>
>
>> I deal with a number of large attachments on any given day, so the
>> ability to pull them down quickly becomes an issue. Going on a snipe
>> hunt for wifi just doesn't make sense. In addition, I do sometimes
>> participate in internet conferences while commuting. EDGE doesn't
> handle
>> these real well.
>
>
> Fair enough...
>
>
>> I see it as Apple trying to tell people what they need without
>> having a clue about the true contents of the list.
>
> That's a hard point to argue with! I think they've developed a certain
> hubris from their success with the iPod- look how long it took for them
> to add video playback to the Nano, despite the numerous number of
> competitors products already offering it in that form-factor.
>
>
>
And it has been their downfall before- man yApple products have met with a
quick death because of that attitude that they know what's best for the
public.
In article <5qj2igF107fa0U1@mid.individual.net>, Tinman <ask@for.it>
wrote:
> CozmicDebris wrote:
> >
> > I'm currently running my phone with a 32 gig
> > micro card.
> >
>
> I call bullshit on this.
>
Jeez, no kidding.
A microSD card at 32 GB? And it just happens that 'cozmic' uses this
item, which conveniently supports a (bizarrely inappropriate) claim?
Mitch <mitch@hawaii.rr> wrote in news:081220071653052205%mitch@hawaii.rr:
> In article <5qj2igF107fa0U1@mid.individual.net>, Tinman <ask@for.it>
> wrote:
>
>> CozmicDebris wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm currently running my phone with a 32 gig
>> > micro card.
>> >
>>
>> I call bullshit on this.
>>
>
> Jeez, no kidding.
> A microSD card at 32 GB? And it just happens that 'cozmic' uses this
> item, which conveniently supports a (bizarrely inappropriate) claim?
>
Except if you read further, I'm not- the phone supports 32 gig, the card
currently in the phone is only 8. I misspoke and corrected it almost
immediately.
Re: Hey Oxford - more reality 
Linear Mode
