VoIP and iPhone together at last - fring launches iPhone VoIP client

VoIP and iPhone together at last - fring launches iPhone VoIP client

Well it looks like leading VoIP provider fring has managed to beat out
the competition by launching the first ever VoIP application for the
iPhone.

fring says that their natively installed VoIP client for the iPhone is
a "special pre-release R&D version of fring" created in conjunction
with the Holon Institute of Technology academic research labs.

Add http://fring.com/iphone.xml to your iPhone installer to get it.

"4phun" <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:af87b690-27bf-413a-b27f-ca7027d2476f@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> VoIP and iPhone together at last - fring launches iPhone VoIP client
>
> Well it looks like leading VoIP provider fring has managed to beat out
> the competition by launching the first ever VoIP application for the
> iPhone.

"Leading VoIP provider?"

Fring's app is actually pretty cool, since it integrates multiple VoIP
providers in one client- you can do Skype, Google Talk, several IM services
and even a "real" VoIP SIP service.

In addition, Fring uses their own server and low-bandwidth codec, so many
people are able to use it over EDGE as well as WiFi. The only real downside
of Fring is it's absolutely p*ss-poor UI, since it's designed for
non-touchscreen phones (and doesn't even have a dialer- it's "contacts"
based.) Hopefully the iPhone version will correct those shortcomings.

While the Fring service itself is not particularly popular, if you can only
have one VoIP app available, it might as well be Fring's, given that
versatility.

(While the webpage blurb about the iPhone version doesn't list all of the
usual Fring features, I suspect they'll be added eventually, since the
"pre-release" version is called a "lite" version.)

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:GqcNj.61$OV4.43@fe127.usenetserver.com:

> "Leading VoIP provider?"
>
> Fring's app is actually pretty cool, since it integrates multiple VoIP
> providers in one client- you can do Skype, Google Talk, several IM
> services and even a "real" VoIP SIP service.
>
> In addition, Fring uses their own server and low-bandwidth codec, so
> many people are able to use it over EDGE as well as WiFi. The only
> real downside of Fring is it's absolutely p*ss-poor UI, since it's
> designed for non-touchscreen phones (and doesn't even have a dialer-
> it's "contacts" based.) Hopefully the iPhone version will correct
> those shortcomings.
>
> While the Fring service itself is not particularly popular, if you can
> only have one VoIP app available, it might as well be Fring's, given
> that versatility.
>
> (While the webpage blurb about the iPhone version doesn't list all of
> the usual Fring features, I suspect they'll be added eventually, since
> the "pre-release" version is called a "lite" version.)
>
>
>

Will it talk to Gizmo and Skype on the Iphone? That would be very
interesting......

Silly hackers automated switching the Linux tablet's USB port to OTB or
Peripheral or Host. Simple prog boots, touch a button, bingo.

My tablet is playing DivX off a 1 terabyte Western Digital USB drive in
Host mode as I type this! The tiny USB port on the tablet doesn't
deliver enough power to run a laptop USB drive, so you use a USB hub to
add power. That works, too, on my 250GB laptop USB drive.

I'm not sure how many terabytes an N800 supports. It supports 1TB just
fine. So, now you just plug your massive hard drive into the USB port
in Host mode and use one of the tablet's file managers to copy to the
16GB SD cards....freeing your mainframe for more important stuff, like
downloading...(c;

I wanna see iPhone's new Voip rendering Gizmo and Googletalk
Video....from the Linux tablets would be fun...(c;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIiP7...eature=related
KDE looks cool on the tablet, too!

Larry if you are going to tote all that crap around, why don't you
just carry a desktop PC in a box to the Waffle house to impress those
toothless waitresses? That is a big difference from dropping an
oversized credit card device with a decent clear screen into your
pocket or clipping it to your belt like an iPhone.

Y0u can not get a Nokia 800 into a normal shirt pocket can y0u, Larry?
Which pocket do you carry your normal cell phone in to make phone
calls? How many useful pockets do you have Larry left after you
secrete all this stuff on your person?

Where do you carry your gun and ammo? Are you another one of BHO's
bitter ones?

Larry wrote:
> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
> news:GqcNj.61$OV4.43@fe127.usenetserver.com:
>
> > "Leading VoIP provider?"
> >
> > Fring's app is actually pretty cool, since it integrates multiple VoIP
> > providers in one client- you can do Skype, Google Talk, several IM
> > services and even a "real" VoIP SIP service.
> >
> > In addition, Fring uses their own server and low-bandwidth codec, so
> > many people are able to use it over EDGE as well as WiFi. The only
> > real downside of Fring is it's absolutely p*ss-poor UI, since it's
> > designed for non-touchscreen phones (and doesn't even have a dialer-
> > it's "contacts" based.) Hopefully the iPhone version will correct
> > those shortcomings.
> >
> > While the Fring service itself is not particularly popular, if you can
> > only have one VoIP app available, it might as well be Fring's, given
> > that versatility.
> >
> > (While the webpage blurb about the iPhone version doesn't list all of
> > the usual Fring features, I suspect they'll be added eventually, since
> > the "pre-release" version is called a "lite" version.)
> >
> >
> >
>
> Will it talk to Gizmo and Skype on the Iphone? That would be very
> interesting......
>
> Silly hackers automated switching the Linux tablet's USB port to OTB or
> Peripheral or Host. Simple prog boots, touch a button, bingo.
>
> My tablet is playing DivX off a 1 terabyte Western Digital USB drive in
> Host mode as I type this! The tiny USB port on the tablet doesn't
> deliver enough power to run a laptop USB drive, so you use a USB hub to
> add power. That works, too, on my 250GB laptop USB drive.
>
> I'm not sure how many terabytes an N800 supports. It supports 1TB just
> fine. So, now you just plug your massive hard drive into the USB port
> in Host mode and use one of the tablet's file managers to copy to the
> 16GB SD cards....freeing your mainframe for more important stuff, like
> downloading...(c;
>
> I wanna see iPhone's new Voip rendering Gizmo and Googletalk
> Video....from the Linux tablets would be fun...(c;
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIiP7...eature=related
> KDE looks cool on the tablet, too!

4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:acab1e0f-b850-4a98-8e44-
df9cc5a7d64d@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

> Larry if you are going to tote all that crap around

What a silly stand. It all fits in a PSP game case.

Next deflection.

I'm headed out to Compuzone this morning. Best Buy didn't have a USB
gender changer last night, and I want to get the changer so I can plug
disk drives, keyboards, my little Canon laptop printer into the now-
switchable-to-OTG and Host mode little camera USB port on the N800.
http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/usbcontrol/

Plug the 1TB USB drive into the tablet.
Copy the movies and music off onto the two 16GB SD cards.
.....and you're ready to cruise!

We even have a new two-window File Manager with lots more capabilities
than the "user file manager" the tablets come with to keep the user's
fingers out of crashing Linux by hiding everything but his user files.
http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/emelfm2/
If you crash it all, you lose the game, but not the tablet. We just run
the OS flasher from XP/Vista and the punishment is reinstallilng all the
apps again because we didn't backup...(c;

Of course, you'll need to see the movie, but don't try to look at it on
your iPhone because it's Flash it won't play. Use your Mac.
http://wardenclyffetower.com/MaemoFi.../emel_overview
..html

It even unpacks/unzips and installs apps. Way cool file manager.

This app also shows you how great open source is because you can talk
directly to the guy who wrote it and have input into what the app's next
revision does, without being a programmer, yourself. Pipeline is the
program's author:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ad.php?t=18462
Nothing like direct support, instead of one of those company clones in
Bombay who hasn't a clue....

Todd Allcock wrote:

> While the Fring service itself is not particularly popular, if you can
> only have one VoIP app available, it might as well be Fring's, given
> that versatility.

It's a good service, which has been available for Symbian and WinMo
based handsets for a while. I agree with 4phun that it's about time they
added the iPhone to their supported devices. However to call fring a
leading VOIP provider is a stretch of the truth that only 4phun could
manage!

Note that fring only works on unlocked iPhones, "All you need to start
enjoying the pre-release fring for iPhone is an “opened” iPhone with the
Installer and a WiFi access." So for most users, unwilling to hack their
iPhones, fring is not an option. For now, those that want VOIP on a
mobile platform should stick with Symbian-based, or Win-Mo based devices.

For the iPhone, until it catches up with the other mobile platforms in
terms of capability, stick with something like Voicestick or OneSuite
for low-cost per-minute VOIP worldwide long-distance, but you use up
your peak minutes on your plan.

I particularly like OneSuite's expansion of local access numbers onto
other continents.

"4phun" <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:acab1e0f-b850-4a98-8e44-df9cc5a7d64d@m36g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Larry if you are going to tote all that crap around, why don't you
> just carry a desktop PC in a box to the Waffle house to impress those
> toothless waitresses? That is a big difference from dropping an
> oversized credit card device with a decent clear screen into your
> pocket or clipping it to your belt like an iPhone.

I love the Apple Fanboy definition of a "brick"- any device even slightly
larger than the Apple device they own.

The Nokia is 5.6"x3"x0.7"- certainly larger than the iPhone's
4.5"x2.4"x0.5", but not ridiculously so.

Besides, to quote those Capital One commercials, "what's in YOUR wallet?" if
you think 4.5x2.4 is "credit card sized?" I've always suspected you've
never seen an N800 in person- now I'm doubting if you've ever seen a credit
card either.

This reminds me of the fanboys on CSMA who poo-pooed the MS Zune as being a
"brick" because it was slightly larger (4.4x2.4x0.6) than a comparable iPod
(4.1x2.4x0.4.) Ironically, of course, the freakishly giantic brick-like
Zune is roughly the same height and width as an iPhone...

Personally, I LIKE "bricks"- large screens, audible speakers, and reasonably
useful controls are worth the tradeoff in size. My WinMo phone is too
small- it's smaller than your iPhone in every dimension (except depth) and
it suffers for it in screen real estate- it has a 2.8" screen vs. the
iPhone's quasi-3.5" (I say "quasi" since the iPhone is a "widescreen" 3x2
aspect screen, it's area is slightly smaller than, say, the 3.5" 4x3 screen
on my old Dell Axim, so a straight diagonal size comparison isn't 100%
accurate. The iPhone's screen is just a few millimeters wider than a 2.8"
4x3, but significantly taller.)

> Y0u can not get a Nokia 800 into a normal shirt pocket can y0u, Larry?


Sure, if he uses David Byrne's tailor...

http://www.howardism.org/thoughts/TalkingHeadsClip7.jpg

"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:4806296c$0$36383$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Todd Allcock wrote:
>
>> While the Fring service itself is not particularly popular, if you can
>> only have one VoIP app available, it might as well be Fring's, given that
>> versatility.
>
> It's a good service, which has been available for Symbian and WinMo based
> handsets for a while. I agree with 4phun that it's about time they added
> the iPhone to their supported devices. However to call fring a leading
> VOIP provider is a stretch of the truth that only 4phun could manage!

It's Apple Fanboy-speak. If Wendy's Hamburger restaurants offered free WiFi
for iPhone users, they'd be the "leading fast food restaurant chain."

> Note that fring only works on unlocked iPhones, "All you need to start
> enjoying the pre-release fring for iPhone is an “opened” iPhone with the
> Installer and a WiFi access." So for most users, unwilling to hack their
> iPhones, fring is not an option.

True, but that's a necessary evil to having this as a true VoIP app rather
than a "Talkety" like dial-around service, which is more complicated, yet
essentially no better, than using a calling card.

> For now, those that want VOIP on a mobile platform should stick with
> Symbian-based, or Win-Mo based devices.

True, but frankly I doubt many people choose their phone based on what will
work well with VoIP. Even if you travel overseas often, you could always
tote a dedicated WiFi VoIP handset for those uses. VoIP on my mobile is a
convenience for the few times I need it (it came in handy in Mexico a few
months ago- $0.02/min. VoIP beat hell out of $1.49/min. roaming!) but I
certainly didn't choose my phone solely based on VoIP capability. (But it's
VoIP and remote terminal capabilities did allow me NOT to bring a laptop
along.)

> For the iPhone, until it catches up with the other mobile platforms in
> terms of capability, stick with something like Voicestick or OneSuite for
> low-cost per-minute VOIP worldwide long-distance, but you use up your peak
> minutes on your plan.

Which is fine domestically, but this will allow jailbroken iPhone users to
call via WiFi overseas, reducing roaming charges or the need to deal with
the hassle of local prepaid SIMs.

> I particularly like OneSuite's expansion of local access numbers onto
> other continents.

Which is a great thing, particulary for those planning to use payphones or
local SIMs, but if WiFi is available, VoIP is still preferable, IMO. For
short trips, buying a $30 SIM to avoid $30 in roaming charges is a false
economy. My week in Mexico, for example, was a vacation- even with
practically-free VoIP I probably used less than 20 minutes of call time all
week- I (briefly) returned a couple of important work calls and chatted a
little with family. For high volume use, of course, a local SIM and call
forwarding (from the US cellphone number to the local SIM via a VoIP like
Voicestick) would've made more sense, but I wasn't anticipating any
significant usage.

Todd Allcock wrote:
>
> "SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
> news:4806296c$0$36383$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> Todd Allcock wrote:
>>
>>> While the Fring service itself is not particularly popular, if you
>>> can only have one VoIP app available, it might as well be Fring's,
>>> given that versatility.
>>
>> It's a good service, which has been available for Symbian and WinMo
>> based handsets for a while. I agree with 4phun that it's about time
>> they added the iPhone to their supported devices. However to call
>> fring a leading VOIP provider is a stretch of the truth that only
>> 4phun could manage!
>
> It's Apple Fanboy-speak. If Wendy's Hamburger restaurants offered free
> WiFi for iPhone users, they'd be the "leading fast food restaurant chain."
>
>> Note that fring only works on unlocked iPhones, "All you need to start
>> enjoying the pre-release fring for iPhone is an “opened” iPhone with
>> the Installer and a WiFi access." So for most users, unwilling to hack
>> their iPhones, fring is not an option.
>
> True, but that's a necessary evil to having this as a true VoIP app
> rather than a "Talkety" like dial-around service, which is more
> complicated, yet essentially no better, than using a calling card.
>
>> For now, those that want VOIP on a mobile platform should stick with
>> Symbian-based, or Win-Mo based devices.
>
> True, but frankly I doubt many people choose their phone based on what
> will work well with VoIP. Even if you travel overseas often, you could
> always tote a dedicated WiFi VoIP handset for those uses. VoIP on my
> mobile is a convenience for the few times I need it (it came in handy in
> Mexico a few months ago- $0.02/min. VoIP beat hell out of $1.49/min.
> roaming!) but I certainly didn't choose my phone solely based on VoIP
> capability. (But it's VoIP and remote terminal capabilities did allow
> me NOT to bring a laptop along.)
>
>> For the iPhone, until it catches up with the other mobile platforms in
>> terms of capability, stick with something like Voicestick or OneSuite
>> for low-cost per-minute VOIP worldwide long-distance, but you use up
>> your peak minutes on your plan.
>
> Which is fine domestically, but this will allow jailbroken iPhone users
> to call via WiFi overseas, reducing roaming charges or the need to deal
> with the hassle of local prepaid SIMs.

Perhaps, but just as in the U.S., Wi-Fi isn't sufficient for adequate
coverage. It's actually worse overseas where there isn't nearly as much
free Wi-Fi. With some free Wi-Fi networks requiring Microsoft SideKick
to work, this further lessens the value of Wi-Fi. You really need a
prepaid SIM overseas if you're going to have even moderate use. Which of
course rules out the iPhone unless you have it unlocked.

Where I'd like an iPhone size device is at the hotel to use the hotel's
Wi-Fi rather than haul along a laptop. Alas, many hotels still have only
wired access, including the last hotel I stayed at in Asia. So I'd have
to also haul along a pocket router to use a device without wired capability.

> Which is a great thing, particulary for those planning to use payphones
> or local SIMs, but if WiFi is available, VoIP is still preferable, IMO.
> For short trips, buying a $30 SIM to avoid $30 in roaming charges is a
> false economy.

Yes, this is true. At least in Taiwan the local SIM is not $30, it's
around $10.

At 16 Apr 2008 19:05:46 -0700 SMS wrote:

> > Which is fine domestically, but this will allow jailbroken iPhone users
> > to call via WiFi overseas, reducing roaming charges or the need to
> > deal with the hassle of local prepaid SIMs.
>
> Perhaps, but just as in the U.S., Wi-Fi isn't sufficient for adequate
> coverage. It's actually worse overseas where there isn't nearly as
> much free Wi-Fi.

Understood- I'm not talking about an Oxford-like ubiquity, I just mean the
ability to make or take VoIP calls back at the hotel. Fortunately or
unfortunately I'm not "important" enough to need 24/7 access. When
traveling, just catching up with voicemail and e-mail daily is adequate for
my needs.

> With some free Wi-Fi networks requiring Microsoft
> SideKick to work, this further lessens the value of Wi-Fi. You really
> need a prepaid SIM overseas if you're going to have even moderate
> use. Which of course rules out the iPhone unless you have it unlocked.


I would assume anyone who's jailbroken their iPhone is also likely to have
unlocked it, although I could be wrong.

> Where I'd like an iPhone size device is at the hotel to use the hotel's
> Wi-Fi rather than haul along a laptop. Alas, many hotels still have only
> wired access, including the last hotel I stayed at in Asia.

I believe Larry is now selling N800s door-to-door... ;-)

> So I'd have to
> also haul along a pocket router to use a device without wired capability.


There's one packed in my travel kit just for that eventuality.


> > For short trips, buying a $30 SIM to avoid $30 in roaming charges is a
false economy.
>
> Yes, this is true. At least in Taiwan the local SIM is not $30, it's
around $10.

There are certainly bargains to be had in some countries. For $10 I'd
probably buy one just for giggles.

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:StqNj.514$Vn5.503@fe119.usenetserver.com:

> VoIP on my mobile is a
> convenience for the few times I need it (it came in handy in Mexico a
> few months ago- $0.02/min. VoIP beat hell out of $1.49/min. roaming!)
> but I certainly didn't choose my phone solely based on VoIP
> capability.

While driving back from the boonies from fixing a church's Kawai digital
piano, this afternoon, my N800 "rang". It was a crazy character I've known
for years from Osaka, Japan, and he rode along on Alltel EVDO ($25/mo
unlimited) on the way back into town for over an hour. He's a software
kinda guy and very handy to know if you run Linux, his specialty. But, his
garage door opener remote control failure wasn't a software problem. I got
him to pull it apart on his desk and "we" found a loose battery spring that
broke loose from the PC board the idiots who built it soldered it to.

The call cost us nothing for over an hour from Charleston, SC to Osaka, JP
because we were both on Skype. We talk a lot either on Skype or Gizmo,
which I occasionally boot, but not as often as Skype because Skype has its
own phone number.

The garage door opens itself, now, in the monsoon rains.....(c;

With a little more training, he'll be able to operate the soldering iron on
his own, without American consultation....and I'll be allowed root access
to Linux without my Japanese mentor looking over my shoulder keeping me
from crashing the kernel.

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:fu6dla$9la$1
@aioe.org:

>> Where I'd like an iPhone size device is at the hotel to use the hotel's
>> Wi-Fi rather than haul along a laptop. Alas, many hotels still have only
>> wired access, including the last hotel I stayed at in Asia.
>
> I believe Larry is now selling N800s door-to-door... ;-)
>
>

http://www.internettablettalk.com/wi...p?title=HOWTO:
_Wired_Networking_using_USB_host_mode_and_OS_2008

Nope just solutions. This webpage is a howto to setup the N800 with a
Linksys Ethernet-to-USB adapter (Linksys USB100M) so you can plug either
OS2008 Maemo Linux tablet into an Ethernet system, directly, at the hotel.

Ignore the link to put the tablet into OTG or Host mode on its USB port.
No more hacking is necessary as there is a nice little app, of course free,
that simply has 3 buttons on it for you to choose the USB mode from the GUI
app:

http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/usbcontrol/

With a common camera miniUSB cable and a female-to-female gender changer, I
can now connect USB peripherals such as my 1TB USB hard drives, a USB hub
from Staples via the thrift shop, my HP scanner/printer, even a Microsoft
USB full keyboard to the tablet's USB port. I ordered my own gender
changer today because noone in town here has one I can find. The Geek
Squad at BB told me I can't connect the tablet's USB port to devices, only
computers. "Like this?", I offered showing him an 8GB SD card in a USB
adapter plugged into the gender changer on loan to me.....(c;

Priceless.....(c; Another convert...

"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:FcqNj.106
$Vr3.10@fe115.usenetserver.com:

>> Y0u can not get a Nokia 800 into a normal shirt pocket can y0u, Larry?
>
>
> Sure, if he uses David Byrne's tailor...
>
> http://www.howardism.org/thoughts/TalkingHeadsClip7.jpg
>
>
>

It fits quite nicely into my inside pocket of my jacket, but I have to be
careful listening to streaming audio without headphones in there. People
are no longer used to seeing someone with a "transistor radio" playing in
their pocket, even at computer stores. Everyone KNOWS music players all
use HEADPHONES, right??

Todd Allcock wrote:

> I believe Larry is now selling N800s door-to-door... ;-)

Yes, he was here yesterday.

I think I'd go with the Asus Eee PC if I have to have two devices anyway.

> There are certainly bargains to be had in some countries. For $10 I'd
> probably buy one just for giggles.

It was a pain to buy, as they stopped selling them at 7-11 (there are
often multiple 7-11's on each block in Taipei) and now only sell them at
the carrier's offices which have hours worse than banker's hours.

My daughter is in Taiwan now on an exchange student program and I gave
her the quad band phone and SIM card to use, though I'm not calling her
every half hour as I threatened to do, especially after hearing a review
of a new book, "A Nation of Wimps: The High Cost of Invasive Parenting."

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
C7C0F2.08522317042008@nntp3.usenetserver.com:

> Jesus. You didn't grow up with that, did you? So why would you even
> think about doing it to your own kids?
>
>

If he knew what she was doing in Taiwan, he'd probably have a heart attack
early.

At 17 Apr 2008 05:24:38 -0700 SMS wrote:
> Todd Allcock wrote:
>
> > I believe Larry is now selling N800s door-to-door... ;-)
>
> Yes, he was here yesterday.
>
> I think I'd go with the Asus Eee PC if I have to have two devices anyway.


I bought one a few weeks ago on sale from Buy.com- the 4GB version, and
after 15 minutes with it, installed XP over the included Linux distro.
(Asus made a virtual 800x600 driver for XP, whereas Linux was stuck at the
device's native 800x480.) VoIP works smoothly on it, even using the built-
in speakers and mic, and it's surprisingly snappy even on XP, despite it's
paltry 512k RAM and 900MHz processor supposedly underclocked to 600 to save
battery and waste heat (it gets warmer on my lap than either of my "real"
laptops!)

But despite it's faults (small display, terrible keyboard- not just because
it's cramped, but because some keys are bewilderingly placed, and the
spacebar only registers a "hit" if struck in the center) it's small enough
that it'll be my travel laptop of choice. I'll just remote in to my real
PC via LogMeIn.com.

At 17 Apr 2008 08:52:23 -0400 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> It took someone ELSE to tell you that helicopter parenting is bad?
>
> Jesus. You didn't grow up with that, did you? So why would you even
> think about doing it to your own kids?


In Steven's defence, as a parent of three kids 10 and younger, we're
products of our times. Try being a "low key" parent by today's standards
and you're regarded as an unfit mutant freak, who should have their kids
taken away by the state!

I'm certainly low-key compared to my kids' friends' parents, but still
waaaay too involved compared to my own. But I'm working on it...

In article <fu8f73$2gi$2@aioe.org>,
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

> At 17 Apr 2008 08:52:23 -0400 Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
> > It took someone ELSE to tell you that helicopter parenting is bad?
> >
> > Jesus. You didn't grow up with that, did you? So why would you even
> > think about doing it to your own kids?
>
>
> In Steven's defence, as a parent of three kids 10 and younger, we're
> products of our times. Try being a "low key" parent by today's standards
> and you're regarded as an unfit mutant freak, who should have their kids
> taken away by the state!
>
> I'm certainly low-key compared to my kids' friends' parents, but still
> waaaay too involved compared to my own. But I'm working on it...

Seems like kids today are allowed the play and discovery that kids had
when I grew up.
We ate dirt (so we have great immune systems). Weren't driven everywhere
- we had bikes or walked to school. We also bonded with our friends more
after school.
Parents today have peer pressure to overprotect their kids.
Kids have no easy way of learning their boundaries today. (We got
whooped when we overstepped)
Bad time to be a kid.

--
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Kurt <labolide@spacegmail.com> wrote in news:labolide-
1767F9.17273517042008@news.giganews.com:

> Seems like kids today are allowed the play and discovery that kids had
> when I grew up.
> We ate dirt (so we have great immune systems). Weren't driven
everywhere
> - we had bikes or walked to school. We also bonded with our friends
more
> after school.
> Parents today have peer pressure to overprotect their kids.
> Kids have no easy way of learning their boundaries today. (We got
> whooped when we overstepped)
> Bad time to be a kid.
>
>

I don't think it's any different, now, than when I was a kid in the
1950's. They just didn't talk about all the nasty stuff that went on in
1950. Now, the propaganda machine's job is to push it 24/7. All men
are evil. They do evil things. Today's kids are told that from
kindergarten.

Our other problem is this really scary slide back into religious
control. We don't notice it, as long as we stay home. But, American
tourists going to europe are just horrified that (put your EU country
here) is a den of iniquity, promiscuous sex, why they even let little
kids run around naked on the beach! Americans are religiously
indoctrinated prudes, by comparison.

The resurgence of religious isolation to the family sect is also very
scary as it breeds hatred and contempt into the impressionable children
before the age of reason. This sect's kids learn to hate and dispise
this other sect's kids LONG before they can have at each other, Middle
East Style, in the religious murders. Hell, there's Jews in England who
were born and raised there in total isolation that don't even speak
English so you can understand it. Walled in, any child is simply
assimilated into whatever enclave he is enslaved to......and will
believe anything the elders tell him, even murder.

I grew up in Moravia, NY in the Owasco Lake Valley. Google Earth it,
the whole place is in high resolution. It was a fantastic place to be
raised in a small upstate NY town where everyone knew everyone and
everyone else's business. By the time I was 10, my father simply said,
"Be home at a reasonable hour.", and I left him to his TV addiction.
Getting in trouble meant getting caught smoking by one of the town
biddies or a school teacher. The really nasty kids strung toilet paper
in the trees. Lots of kids had guns in school because we all went
hunting right after school before the sun went down! Finding shotguns
in lockers was OK. Finding CIGARETTES in lockers got you SUSPENDED! I
believe we could have stood off a fairly heavy attack with the weapons
and ammo stored in those halls...(c; Noone ever thought of shooting a
teacher or each other. That's crazy!

I only got thrown out of school ONCE. The school, itself, had us kids
selling magazines, light bulbs, etc., so did the Scouts. So, as I
worked in the 275 year old Rexall Drug Store after school, I had a
little condom concession setup in my locker, a little retail
establishment that kept the boys supplied and the girls out of
pregnancy.....well, until Mrs Van Lew, our old maid Cit Ed teacher
opened my locker during the lock-down cigarette inspections.

If the coach had opened it, we'd been fine. He knew it was there. But,
alas, he didn't, SHE did! Teenage girls didn't do THAT, in her world.
Her world was in Lalaland. I sold 50 dozen on a good Friday during
lunch period for the weekend. I made good money because I bought them
wholesale through the drug store account. I was performing a public (or
was that pubic) service! The Principal would have let it die if SHE
hadn't gone to the School Board. So, I got 3 days off and had to move
the store off school property, dropping revenues by 30%!

My dad thought it was hilarious....luckily. JC Penney had nothing on me
as a retailer...(c; Hell, the damned schools GIVE AWAY what I got in
trouble for, now!!

The drinking age in NY was 18 in 1964 when I turned 18, so we didn't
have the teenage drinking problems of Age 21 Prohibition does now. All
us kids, me included, were brought up in the bar at the VFW where we
went with our fathers! Begging for nickels to run the pinball machines
WAS PERMITTED....(c; Bringing beers to Dad's table was a great way to
get nickel tips, too! We stayed home during VFW meeting
nights....BORING!

Sorry you kids didn't get to go to Woodstock in '69. I was 23 and in
the Navy in Charleston. 5 of us drove my VW minibus to Woodstock on 3
weeks leave! Look for the skinhead sailors in all that hair in the
Woodstock pictures....(c; Anyone that actually REMEMBERS Woodstock
wasn't there. If you breathed the air, you were STONED....(c;

We better get back before the Topic Police start shooting.....(c;

Here, I'll start off:
Iphone will never be an Enterprise Device........your turn.

In article <Xns9A83DF46BE868noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> Kurt <labolide@spacegmail.com> wrote in news:labolide-
> 1767F9.17273517042008@news.giganews.com:
>
> > Seems like kids today are allowed the play and discovery that kids had
> > when I grew up.
> > We ate dirt (so we have great immune systems). Weren't driven
> everywhere
> > - we had bikes or walked to school. We also bonded with our friends
> more
> > after school.
> > Parents today have peer pressure to overprotect their kids.
> > Kids have no easy way of learning their boundaries today. (We got
> > whooped when we overstepped)
> > Bad time to be a kid.
> >
> >
>
> I don't think it's any different, now, than when I was a kid in the
> 1950's. They just didn't talk about all the nasty stuff that went on in
> 1950. Now, the propaganda machine's job is to push it 24/7. All men
> are evil. They do evil things. Today's kids are told that from
> kindergarten.
>
> Our other problem is this really scary slide back into religious
> control. We don't notice it, as long as we stay home. But, American
> tourists going to europe are just horrified that (put your EU country
> here) is a den of iniquity, promiscuous sex, why they even let little
> kids run around naked on the beach! Americans are religiously
> indoctrinated prudes, by comparison.
>
> The resurgence of religious isolation to the family sect is also very
> scary as it breeds hatred and contempt into the impressionable children
> before the age of reason. This sect's kids learn to hate and dispise
> this other sect's kids LONG before they can have at each other, Middle
> East Style, in the religious murders. Hell, there's Jews in England who
> were born and raised there in total isolation that don't even speak
> English so you can understand it. Walled in, any child is simply
> assimilated into whatever enclave he is enslaved to......and will
> believe anything the elders tell him, even murder.
>
> I grew up in Moravia, NY in the Owasco Lake Valley. Google Earth it,
> the whole place is in high resolution. It was a fantastic place to be
> raised in a small upstate NY town where everyone knew everyone and
> everyone else's business. By the time I was 10, my father simply said,
> "Be home at a reasonable hour.", and I left him to his TV addiction.
> Getting in trouble meant getting caught smoking by one of the town
> biddies or a school teacher. The really nasty kids strung toilet paper
> in the trees. Lots of kids had guns in school because we all went
> hunting right after school before the sun went down! Finding shotguns
> in lockers was OK. Finding CIGARETTES in lockers got you SUSPENDED! I
> believe we could have stood off a fairly heavy attack with the weapons
> and ammo stored in those halls...(c; Noone ever thought of shooting a
> teacher or each other. That's crazy!
>
> I only got thrown out of school ONCE. The school, itself, had us kids
> selling magazines, light bulbs, etc., so did the Scouts. So, as I
> worked in the 275 year old Rexall Drug Store after school, I had a
> little condom concession setup in my locker, a little retail
> establishment that kept the boys supplied and the girls out of
> pregnancy.....well, until Mrs Van Lew, our old maid Cit Ed teacher
> opened my locker during the lock-down cigarette inspections.
>
> If the coach had opened it, we'd been fine. He knew it was there. But,
> alas, he didn't, SHE did! Teenage girls didn't do THAT, in her world.
> Her world was in Lalaland. I sold 50 dozen on a good Friday during
> lunch period for the weekend. I made good money because I bought them
> wholesale through the drug store account. I was performing a public (or
> was that pubic) service! The Principal would have let it die if SHE
> hadn't gone to the School Board. So, I got 3 days off and had to move
> the store off school property, dropping revenues by 30%!
>
> My dad thought it was hilarious....luckily. JC Penney had nothing on me
> as a retailer...(c; Hell, the damned schools GIVE AWAY what I got in
> trouble for, now!!
>
> The drinking age in NY was 18 in 1964 when I turned 18, so we didn't
> have the teenage drinking problems of Age 21 Prohibition does now. All
> us kids, me included, were brought up in the bar at the VFW where we
> went with our fathers! Begging for nickels to run the pinball machines
> WAS PERMITTED....(c; Bringing beers to Dad's table was a great way to
> get nickel tips, too! We stayed home during VFW meeting
> nights....BORING!
>
> Sorry you kids didn't get to go to Woodstock in '69. I was 23 and in
> the Navy in Charleston. 5 of us drove my VW minibus to Woodstock on 3
> weeks leave! Look for the skinhead sailors in all that hair in the
> Woodstock pictures....(c; Anyone that actually REMEMBERS Woodstock
> wasn't there. If you breathed the air, you were STONED....(c;
>
> We better get back before the Topic Police start shooting.....(c;
>
> Here, I'll start off:
> Iphone will never be an Enterprise Device........your turn.

I'm with you on this. Same perspective, but little younger I was more
60s. One of my favs was in late 6os when the girl's VP at my Junior High
(forget the "Middle School" crap) would measure dress lengths. Anything
too short (like 2 inches above the knee) and the girl would have to wear
a burlap gunny sack fashioned into a dress.

Damn those topic police:

Maybe if they killed the camera when they brought in all the Enterprise
features it would.

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Kurt <labolide@spacegmail.com> wrote in news:labolide-
5AF8E7.20070317042008@news.giganews.com:

> I'm with you on this. Same perspective, but little younger I was more
> 60s. One of my favs was in late 6os when the girl's VP at my Junior
High
> (forget the "Middle School" crap) would measure dress lengths.
Anything
> too short (like 2 inches above the knee) and the girl would have to
wear
> a burlap gunny sack fashioned into a dress.
>

In our little town, only about 1/3 of the girls ever wore the skirts I
loved. Doesn't matter how long they are, skirts were designed for
sex....and I knew it...(c;

Being the condom dealer everyone depended upon had certain "fringe
benefits" and this "dependency" resulted in a lot of trust. The best
thing that happened was when I got caught, which was better advertising
than if I'd spent $20M on Superbowl advertising....

Our school was a Central School. The whole end of the county went to
ONE Elementary School to 6th Grade, then 7-12 was in the High School.
There was no need of a jr high for the puberty class.

19 boys graduated with me in '64. 9 of us survived Vietnam. Of us 9,
the best ones off were the ones that simply fled the country to Sweden
and Canada. They're all still there, well educated and captains of
industry. Of the 10 we lost, 3 of those are still MIA, long forgotten
and ignored by the US Government, it's military bureaucrats...simply
written off.

Today, every teenage boy I meet or can interfere with, I beg them to
stay as far away from the Illuminati's military money machine as I can
get them. They've ruined enough lives in my lifetime. There's no honor
and country left about it. There wasn't in Vietnam, either...
Prostituting themselves out for a few dollars to the National Guard and
Reserves is just guaranteeing they'll be put in "Harm's Way for
Halliburton". If we ever DO get attacked, and we weren't on 9/11/2001,
the boys will do their duty...without being cannon fodder for some
military hardware corporation to test its latest toys against some
poorly defended enemy of Israel.

.......topic switch......ON

Yes, the camera just about keeps them out of most companies with secrets
to hide.

In article <Xns9A8451D9BD9Fnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> In our little town, only about 1/3 of the girls ever wore the skirts I
> loved. Doesn't matter how long they are, skirts were designed for
> sex....and I knew it...(c;
>
> Being the condom dealer everyone depended upon had certain "fringe
> benefits" and this "dependency" resulted in a lot of trust. The best
> thing that happened was when I got caught, which was better advertising
> than if I'd spent $20M on Superbowl advertising....
>
> Our school was a Central School. The whole end of the county went to
> ONE Elementary School to 6th Grade, then 7-12 was in the High School.
> There was no need of a jr high for the puberty class.
>
> 19 boys graduated with me in '64. 9 of us survived Vietnam. Of us 9,
> the best ones off were the ones that simply fled the country to Sweden
> and Canada. They're all still there, well educated and captains of
> industry. Of the 10 we lost, 3 of those are still MIA, long forgotten
> and ignored by the US Government, it's military bureaucrats...simply
> written off.
>
> Today, every teenage boy I meet or can interfere with, I beg them to
> stay as far away from the Illuminati's military money machine as I can
> get them. They've ruined enough lives in my lifetime. There's no honor
> and country left about it. There wasn't in Vietnam, either...
> Prostituting themselves out for a few dollars to the National Guard and
> Reserves is just guaranteeing they'll be put in "Harm's Way for
> Halliburton". If we ever DO get attacked, and we weren't on 9/11/2001,
> the boys will do their duty...without being cannon fodder for some
> military hardware corporation to test its latest toys against some
> poorly defended enemy of Israel.
>
> ......topic switch......ON
>
> Yes, the camera just about keeps them out of most companies with secrets
> to hide.

Heartbreaking stories from back then. They ended the draft the year I
turned 18. I was ready to enlist in AF. Only knew a couple guys who
never came back (older brothers of friends)

Terrible to see the same stuff happening again today - with an even more
ill-conceived war.

Back to topic....

A phone version of the iPod Touch?

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Kurt <labolide@spacegmail.com> wrote in news:labolide-
EB8D3F.15051018042008@news.giganews.com:

> Heartbreaking stories from back then. They ended the draft the year I
> turned 18. I was ready to enlist in AF. Only knew a couple guys who
> never came back (older brothers of friends)

Every MALE who graduated in 1964 was DRAFTED unless he had a deferment
in hand the day he graduated. This usually kept the rich kids out of
the trenches, you know, like John Kerry, GW, the rich kids.

So, I knew there was a file with my name on it....no money, no papers.
I had been talking to Signalman Master Chief Ralph W Ince, USN, a rather
short Cherokee Indian from the Auburn, NY, Navy recruiting office.
Chief Ince saved hundreds of boys from being killed during his
assignment because he got us in the Navy and away from those fox holes.

I had been draggin' my feet trying not to go anywhere. I had a nice job
at the Rexall Drug Store, family and friends and a whole town where
everyone pretty much loved everyone else.

Well, it was a Thursday and I was home with my mother, father at work
making Smith-Corona Sterling typewriters in a sweatshop in Groton, NY,
two towns south of Moravia. The phone rang and my mother called me to
it. "Butler, do you want to come in the Navy, today?"....hemmed and
hawed about 30 seconds and Chief Ince dropped the bomb. "Well, this
will be my last call....." I asked him if he'd given up on me. "No,
but they mailed your draft notice about 8AM this morning. If I don't
get you out of there AND SWORN IN before that postman special delivers
your notice, you'll be in the Army and out of my reach." Within 30
minutes, Chief Ince was in the Navy's van at my door with 4 other
draftees he was trying to save. I bid my mother farewell after putting
on some rather old clothes, as instructed, and off we shot away from
there towards the Navy induction station in Syracuse, directly, as I was
the last pickup on Thursday.

When we got there, they took us into this large room and IMMEDIATELY
swore us into the Navy, almost before we had all gotten into the room!
After we were officially sworn in, they took the time to find out if
they wanted to keep us, which they did, so when the postman got to my
mother's home, she told him I had already joined the Navy that very day.
Mr Valentine, our postman, smiled and said that was 3 in the Navy and 5
in the Air Force since he started delivering the notices that
day....only two got drafted before he got to my house, but there were
others still in his bag.....one of them my buddy, Mike, who was killed
about a year later in the Vietnamese mountains by machine gun fire....


>
> Terrible to see the same stuff happening again today - with an even
more
> ill-conceived war.
>

Not ill-conceived at all! The Illuminati Bankers know exactly what
they're doing. Just like Vietnam, they have found a SUSTAINABLE war so
they can keep loaning the US Government more and more money, AT
INTEREST, to run the war machine which keeps all of them very rich. The
Bankers from the interest,the politicians from the bribes and kickbacks
and the War contractors from the constant stream of replacement parts
and new equipment and new methods of mass murder ordered by the bribed
politicians. It all feeds very well on itself......and, DEPOPULATES a
good portion of the world of us lower classes in the process with noone
trying to kill the overlords, themselves.

"The New World Order".....constant war, depopulation, devaluation...

On topic -

I met a kid at Circuit City with a cracked and loaded iPhone. It
actually had some apps in it, but he was out of memory on two apps that
were a little too grandiose for a device with only 76MB of user memory.