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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 03:13 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:58:24 -0400, Mary <zzz@zzz.com> wrote in
<i5t8v2duei2vngmkjmt7tu6k36fdrjuad3@4ax.com>:

>So in my case the DNC list has worked great. ...


Me too. And now I've cut the landline cord, which has dropped my
telemarketing calls to zero, yet another reason to do that.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 03:15 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:12:42 -0500, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in
<b0fec4-05e.ln1@remote.clifto.com>:

>Scott wrote:
>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Scott wrote:
>>>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Whether that entity has a right to do so
>>>>> is irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> Except that the law was not written that way. Your intended outcome
>>>> would not supercede the regulation. The law allows exceptions- the
>>>> do-not-call list is not the end all, be all that many people wrongly
>>>> think it is.
>>>
>>> You may have missed my last sentence.
>>>
>>> The fact that I am able to fart loudly in church, and probably not
>>> even get kicked out for it, doesn't mean it's not excessively annoying
>>> and downright rude. The same goes for the telesleaze.

>>
>> Understood, but legislating annoying and rude behavior would require
>> another new arm of the government to handle the volume.

>
>While they were writing the TCPA, they had to go out of their way to
>include language exempting bozos from the rules. They put deliberation
>and hard work into giving them permission to abuse their relationships
>with their customers. This is not a case of needing special legislation
>to make them conform to the rules, which your comment might address,
>but one of going out of their way to please the telesleaze operations.


I disagree -- the TCPA is reasonable and balanced.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 07:00 PM
karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:07:42 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:47:48 GMT, karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net wrote in
><duq7v29vsu07n8o9g6953mcgcg4rfjdlou@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 07:39:00 -0400, Mary <zzz@zzz.com> wrote:

>
>>>One question. Do you, or for that matter, does anybody consider this
>>>type of message to be spam? Personally I don't. I haven't checked my
>>>phone yet but I would actually appreciate there sending it out.

>>
>>This is quite DIFFERENT from the SPAM I received by text message which
>>only wanted to sell txt and photo messaging, and had no
>>way listed to stop future such SPAM, and was sent to a cell phone
>>where txt messaging had been disabled (and was still showing as such
>>in Cingular's records). You sure are working
>>hard to defend the undefendable.

>
>No offense intended, but I think this is a tempest in a teapot. Despite
>how you feel personally, this isn't actual "spam" by the commonly
>accepted definition.


By the John navas definition only. Unsolicited attempt to sell
services = SPAM

+ . In years as a Cingular customer never before March 9, 2007 had I
received a "Administrative Message" by txt on my cell phone.
It was plainly a SPAM message as all it did was direct me to a
Cingular website to learn about buying txt or photo messaging from my
cell phone; a service I asked to be disabled in July of 2004, and
Cingular CSRs confirmed that my account showed that txt messaging was
turned off.
Cinglar never-the-less violated my privacy and its own privacy
rules by sending me the SPAM txt message, and
lamely trying to CYA by calling it an "Administrative Message".
Any 12 of my peers (except Navas) would conclude it was SPAM.
Heavens forfend Cingular use an insert with my next bill.

+. I was NEVER given the opportunity to opt out.


+. I never opted in to receive same.

+. The message received on March 9, was clearly not Administrative, as
if I had not received it or acted upon that message, my account would
not have been affected in any way, however the SPAM
failed to give receipient option to not receive such anymore, a
clear
violation of Federal Law. (i.e.) reply with a "CANCEL" to stop
receiving
administrative messages. A true Administrative Message would be
like the notice I received from DirecTv telling me my units WOULD
be affected
if they hadn't received the recent updates to handle the new
longer Daylight Savings Time.

+. I have now asked that my account be configured to NEVER receive
Adminsitartive txt Messages, but fear Cingular will invent some
new name for SPAM, and automatically opt me in to receive such; as it
improperly just did for the SPAM I received on March 9.

+. Cingular refused to offer any compensation for its outrageous,
illegal actions; and the time and energy it took me to discover what
was happening. I HAVE MY OPTIONS HERE.

+. Cingular has clearly been disingenuous and dishonest in dealing
with me on this matter.








> You have an existing business relationship with
>Cingular, which makes it legal and legitimate for Cingular to contact
>you regarding that business relationship.


I had text messaging tuned off on my account, and they over rode it to
SPAM me.


> If you don't want such
>communications from Cingular, then do business with someone else.


That is certainly an option.

> If
>you don't like that legal standard, then contact your government. And
>think hard about why you're getting major upset over something so minor.


It's Cingular's unique interpretation that's in question.


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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 07:32 PM
clifto
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

Scott wrote:
> There are only a few exceptions to the DNC:
>
> - non-profit organizations
> - political calls (you don't actually expect them to cut off their own
> noses, do you?) - companies with which you have had a working business
> relationship in the last ? years (I don't remember the timeframe)
>
> Most companies (Cingular included) do give you the ability to opt-out of
> scenario three, which is interestingly enough the only exception that
> you can opt to exclude.


I believe that's required by law. I do NOT believe they'd do it if it
wasn't required by law. A lot of these companies will NOT do so if you
use the wrong language, e.g. "take me off your list", "quit calling me";
holding exactly to the letter of the law, they will blast you with
calls until you precisely ask to be put *onto* their do-not-call list.

> Personally, I find the "public service calls"
> from G Dubya and Babs Streisand around election time to be much more
> obnoxious and intrusive, and yet I can't tell them not to call.


I agree this is a travesty. I have resolved to vote against any
candidate for any office who spams my phone, regardless of how much
I might have wanted that person in office. So far I have done that.

> I fail to see where the telemarketers were given any slack. If you're
> getting calls from someone who doesn't meet one of the exclusions above,
> reprt them to the FCC.


The few who've called me without legal permission were very, very good
at hiding the origins of their calls. Believe me, if I thought I had
enough on any one of them to take them into small claims court, I'd
be there in a flash for my $500.

--
Martians drive SUVs! <http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html>

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 07:37 PM
clifto
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

John Navas wrote:
> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>While they were writing the TCPA, they had to go out of their way to
>>include language exempting bozos from the rules. They put deliberation
>>and hard work into giving them permission to abuse their relationships
>>with their customers. This is not a case of needing special legislation
>>to make them conform to the rules, which your comment might address,
>>but one of going out of their way to please the telesleaze operations.

>
> I disagree -- the TCPA is reasonable and balanced.


It's heavily weighted against the person who does not want to receive
calls. It was deliberately made so by the efforts of the Direct
Marketing Association and others.

"Reasonable" would be "call me only if you have permission, or your
call is urgent to me." Unreasonable is "my phone is every bozo's
dedicated advertising medium." TCPA enacted the latter into law.

--
Martians drive SUVs! <http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html>

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 07:40 PM
clifto
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

John Navas wrote:
> Me too. And now I've cut the landline cord, which has dropped my
> telemarketing calls to zero, yet another reason to do that.


There's something very comforting about 48 volts on a twisted pair,
especially when disaster strikes and cell networks are all but unusable.

--
Martians drive SUVs! <http://oregonmag.com/MarsWarm307.html>

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 08:25 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:40:53 -0500, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in
<6vmgc4-1ut.ln1@remote.clifto.com>:

>John Navas wrote:
>> Me too. And now I've cut the landline cord, which has dropped my
>> telemarketing calls to zero, yet another reason to do that.

>
>There's something very comforting about 48 volts on a twisted pair,
>especially when disaster strikes and cell networks are all but unusable.


I've found little real difference between landline and cellular in times
of disaster. If anything, I think cellular will be more reliable than
landline in the future. But both are vulnerable -- for those that
really care about staying in touch, the only real options are satphone
and shortwave radio.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 08:33 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:00:16 GMT, karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net wrote in
<ng8bv2hf56fphobiv6a2qgi38mtj9ajva3@4ax.com>:

>On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:07:42 GMT, John Navas
><spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:


>>No offense intended, but I think this is a tempest in a teapot. Despite
>>how you feel personally, this isn't actual "spam" by the commonly
>>accepted definition.

>
>By the John navas definition only. Unsolicited attempt to sell
>services = SPAM


Incorrect on both counts.

>> If
>>you don't like that legal standard, then contact your government. And
>>think hard about why you're getting major upset over something so minor.

>
>It's Cingular's unique interpretation that's in question.


It's your unique (personal) interpretation that's in question.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28electronic%29>

Spamming is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to send
unsolicited bulk messages, which are universally undesired.

Read those words carefully. Pay particular attention to "abuse",
"bulk", and "universally".

In 2002 and 2003, frequent users of cell phone text messages began to
see an increase in the number of unsolicited (and generally unwanted)
commercial advertisements being sent to their cell phones through
text messaging.

In the United States, this use is regulated by the CAN-SPAM Act of
2003 and the Telephone Consumer Protection Act of 1991.

Read those laws carefully. Cingular isn't violating them, not only
because it has a business relationship to you, but also because it's not
charging for those messages.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 08:34 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:37:08 -0500, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in
<4omgc4-1ut.ln1@remote.clifto.com>:

>John Navas wrote:
>> clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>While they were writing the TCPA, they had to go out of their way to
>>>include language exempting bozos from the rules. They put deliberation
>>>and hard work into giving them permission to abuse their relationships
>>>with their customers. This is not a case of needing special legislation
>>>to make them conform to the rules, which your comment might address,
>>>but one of going out of their way to please the telesleaze operations.

>>
>> I disagree -- the TCPA is reasonable and balanced.

>
>It's heavily weighted against the person who does not want to receive
>calls. It was deliberately made so by the efforts of the Direct
>Marketing Association and others.


I disagree.

>"Reasonable" would be "call me only if you have permission, or your
>call is urgent to me." Unreasonable is "my phone is every bozo's
>dedicated advertising medium." TCPA enacted the latter into law.


In your opinion. My opinion differs.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 08:41 PM
John Navas
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Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:32:58 -0500, clifto <clifto@gmail.com> wrote in
<agmgc4-1ut.ln1@remote.clifto.com>:

>Scott wrote:


>> Personally, I find the "public service calls"
>> from G Dubya and Babs Streisand around election time to be much more
>> obnoxious and intrusive, and yet I can't tell them not to call.

>
>I agree this is a travesty. I have resolved to vote against any
>candidate for any office who spams my phone, regardless of how much
>I might have wanted that person in office. So far I have done that.


That's how a market works, much more effective than regulation.

--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 09:30 PM
karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?

On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 20:33:27 GMT, John Navas
<spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 12 Mar 2007 19:00:16 GMT, karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net wrote in
><ng8bv2hf56fphobiv6a2qgi38mtj9ajva3@4ax.com>:
>
>>On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 15:07:42 GMT, John Navas
>><spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:

>
>>>No offense intended, but I think this is a tempest in a teapot. Despite
>>>how you feel personally, this isn't actual "spam" by the commonly
>>>accepted definition.

>>
>>By the John navas definition only. Unsolicited attempt to sell
>>services = SPAM

>
>Incorrect on both counts.
>
>>> If
>>>you don't like that legal standard, then contact your government. And
>>>think hard about why you're getting major upset over something so minor.

>>
>>It's Cingular's unique interpretation that's in question.

>
>It's your unique (personal) interpretation that's in question.
>
><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_%28electronic%29>
>
> Spamming is the abuse of electronic messaging systems to send
> unsolicited bulk messages, which are universally undesired.
>




That fits perfectly what Cingular sent. Thank you. SPAM !!

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 10:55 PM
Michael Paris
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Anyone else get TXT Message Spam from Cingular lately?


"Kurt" <labolide@spacegmail.com> wrote in message
news:labolide-8B05F9.15462410032007@news.giganews.com...
>I got a recorded voice message from Cingular today about making sure my
> Treo was updated for daylight savings time.
> Haven't gotten any text messages from them yet.
>
> --
> To reply by email, remove the word "space"


Got the same from them for my Treo 750, as well as a text message. I don't
consider that spam. I do get a commercial message from them which isn't
tech releated, honestly it doesn't bother me, I just delete it. Life's too
short the fret over it. Since I use Cingular and they don't charge me or it
doesn't come off my basic tm plan and we do have a business relationship I
consider it fair, as well as getting like one every other month or every
month it's no over done.

BTW, I do think the one for the wrestling thing was sorta redneckish.


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