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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 03:55 PM
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers
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Posts: n/a
Default Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

Verizon continues to add iPhone imitators to its antiquated 3G CDMA
network and it finally collapsed in the most populated parts of the
USA Wednesday morning with many Verizon customers unable to use any
data at all for hours. Some found the 3G data service extremely
sluggish, a few lucky Verizon 3G customers never noticed the
widespread outage in the Eastern part of the USA.

Data rationing and limits coming to Verizon sooner rather than later?

Will Verizon continue to keep pushing these data intensive
'smartphones' like throwing mud on a wall and hoping some will stick
or will they back off to protect current Verizon 3G customers?

Or was this a geek hacker attack that took out the Verizon network
from a modified Verizon 'smartphone'?

Did some fool somewhere merely cut a hidden Verizon fiber optic cable
which was a key to the whole eastern USA?

Verizon needs to stop running commercials and spend money on their
network if they really want to run with the big dog.

http://darkgate.net/comic/images/wor...1267604046.gif

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 04:50 PM
nospam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article
<b0f28291-1002-4b37-98ad-aff3cfc2a9ab@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers <vic.healey@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Verizon continues to add iPhone imitators to its antiquated 3G CDMA
> network and it finally collapsed in the most populated parts of the
> USA Wednesday morning with many Verizon customers unable to use any
> data at all for hours. Some found the 3G data service extremely
> sluggish, a few lucky Verizon 3G customers never noticed the
> widespread outage in the Eastern part of the USA.


as opposed to at&t where customers find the service sluggish most of
the time rather than just for a few hours?

> Verizon needs to stop running commercials and spend money on their
> network if they really want to run with the big dog.


or at&t, who publicly stated they're not in any hurry to adopt lte (4g)?

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 04:54 PM
WindsorFox
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers wrote:
> Verizon continues to add iPhone imitators to its antiquated 3G CDMA
> network and it finally collapsed in the most populated parts of the
> USA Wednesday morning with many Verizon customers unable to use any
> data at all for hours. Some found the 3G data service extremely
> sluggish, a few lucky Verizon 3G customers never noticed the
> widespread outage in the Eastern part of the USA.
>



Says who? An anonymous iPhone fanboi? There was no down time here.

--
..



"A smorgasbord of tomfoolery" - L0afy

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 04:55 PM
WindsorFox
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

nospam wrote:
> In article
> <b0f28291-1002-4b37-98ad-aff3cfc2a9ab@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers <vic.healey@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Verizon continues to add iPhone imitators to its antiquated 3G CDMA
>> network and it finally collapsed in the most populated parts of the
>> USA Wednesday morning with many Verizon customers unable to use any
>> data at all for hours. Some found the 3G data service extremely
>> sluggish, a few lucky Verizon 3G customers never noticed the
>> widespread outage in the Eastern part of the USA.

>
> as opposed to at&t where customers find the service sluggish most of
> the time rather than just for a few hours?
>



*IF* they can find it....

--
..



"A smorgasbord of tomfoolery" - L0afy

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 05:04 PM
John B. Coarsey, PE
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning


"WindsorFox<[SS]>" <windsor.fox.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hmm7po$2pg$2@posting2.glorb.com...
> FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers wrote:
>> Verizon continues to add iPhone imitators to its antiquated 3G CDMA
>> network and it finally collapsed in the most populated parts of the
>> USA Wednesday morning with many Verizon customers unable to use any
>> data at all for hours. Some found the 3G data service extremely
>> sluggish, a few lucky Verizon 3G customers never noticed the
>> widespread outage in the Eastern part of the USA.
>>

>
>
> Says who? An anonymous iPhone fanboi? There was no down time here.
>
> --
> .
>
>
>
> "A smorgasbord of tomfoolery" - L0afy


No, not a fanboi. Google for it and you will see it is true. From what I
read it did not appear to be across the board though.



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 05:07 PM
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On Mar 3, 12:50*pm, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> or at&t, who publicly stated they're not in any hurry to adopt lte (4g)?


Every AT&T cell installation now includes the equipment for 4G. It is
merely a matter of switching it on next year. The BIG DOG plans whom
he is going to bite next.

It helps to be capitalized for 4G LTE too.

AT&T 147.50B

Verizon 82.66B
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets...00x_fuuuuu.jpg

Sprint 9.755B

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 05:41 PM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article
<2308c375-af72-4582-994a-224163197fa4@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com>,
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers <vic.healey@gmail.com>
wrote:

> > or at&t, who publicly stated they're not in any hurry to adopt lte (4g)?

>
> Every AT&T cell installation now includes the equipment for 4G.


even if that's true, there are zillions of existing cells that need to
be upgraded.

<http://www.macrumors.com/2010/03/02/...ephenson-speak
s-about-iphone-and-ipad/>

On the issue of LTE (4G) deployment, Stephenson reported that AT&T is
"not in a tremendous hurry" to deploy the next-generation network,
noting that the technology is still being developed and widespread
availability of products taking advantage of the technology is not
expected until 2012.

> It is merely a matter of switching it on next year.


no, it's much more than that.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2010, 09:30 PM
Dennis Ferguson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On 2010-03-03, FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 12:50*pm, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> or at&t, who publicly stated they're not in any hurry to adopt lte (4g)?

>
> Every AT&T cell installation now includes the equipment for 4G. It is
> merely a matter of switching it on next year. The BIG DOG plans whom
> he is going to bite next.


Do you have a link for that? I know AT&T now pulls fiber to
cell sites where ever possible, something which isn't strictly
necessary for 3G at the speeds they're running now but which
will be necessary for any future speed upgrades, either 3G or
4G. If that's all you are talking about, however, that's
"equipment for 4G" only if you stretch the definition of "4G
equipment" beyond recognition.

I'm pretty sure 4G, and higher speed 3G, requires denser cell
spacing than AT&T (or Verizon, probably) has now, so much of
the "equipment for 4G" required by both companies is going to
be steel for cell tower construction.

> It helps to be capitalized for 4G LTE too.
>
> AT&T 147.50B
>
> Verizon 82.66B
> http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets...00x_fuuuuu.jpg


Note that Verizon books a value of almost 80B for Verizon Wireless'
spectrum *licenses* alone, forget about the network (AT&T's spectrum
asset value is way below that), but since Verizon owns just 55% of Verizon
Wireless only part of that ends up adding to Verizon Communications'
value. Cellco Partnership dba Verizon Wireless is very well capitalized
even if that isn't all reflected in Verizon's value.

You can bet your boots that Verizon will be deploying LTE well before
AT&T (and maybe before LTE is ready for prime time?) since AT&T still
has some way to go with their 3G technology while Verizon has little
to do but LTE.

Dennis Ferguson

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 12:50 AM
Larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

"FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers" <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote
in news:b0f28291-1002-4b37-98ad-aff3cfc2a9ab@d2g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

> Data rationing and limits coming to Verizon sooner rather than later?
>
>


Still fighting the truth, eh, Vicky.....

http://vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/do...es/maps/3Gcomp
arison.pdf

The most lawyer-searched coverage maps on the planet......the truth.

VZW runs 1.7Mbps in the real world in Charleston.....quite fast but way
overpriced for only 5GB/mo.


--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

Larry


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 03:14 AM
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On Mar 3, 5:30*pm, Dennis Ferguson <dcfergu...@pacbell.net> wrote:

>
> > Every AT&T cell installation now includes the equipment for 4G. It is
> > merely a matter of switching it on next year. The BIG DOG plans whom
> > he is going to bite next.

>
> Do you have a link for that? *I know AT&T now pulls fiber to
> cell sites where ever possible, something which isn't strictly
> necessary for 3G at the speeds they're running now but which
> will be necessary for any future speed upgrades, either 3G or



> Dennis Ferguson


As a matter of fact I have several links. I can always prove what I
assert. Here is a recent link that indicates what BIG DOG is doing
while the little dogs sleep.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493

Summary for the USENET LAZY

Feb 10, 2010

Today in a press release, AT&T announced that it will be purchasing
equipment from telecom manufacturers Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson to
build out its 4G LTE network.

AT&T has field trials of LTE planned for later this year, with
commercial deployment sometime in 2011.

If everything goes according to plan, the carrier lovingly nicknamed
the Death Star will start rolling out 2,000 new 3G cell sites in
2010.

Terms of the agreement between the three companies ensure that any new
3G equipment that is deployed will have the capability to be easily
converted to LTE for the 2011 roll out.

Also note: Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson currently supply AT&T with
their 3G networking equipment.

Now actual announcement with details from AT&T on rollout of 4G in
2011 using LTE (long post)

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493

AT&T Selects LTE Equipment Suppliers

Agreements with Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson Extend Existing 3G
Relationships to Cover Planned Deployment of Next-Generation LTE
Mobile Broadband Network

Dallas, Texas, February 10, 2010


AT&T Inc.* today announced the selection of Alcatel-Lucent and
Ericsson as equipment suppliers for the planned deployment of its
higher-speed LTE mobile broadband network.

The selection of the two suppliers paves the way for AT&Ts planned
field trials of LTE technology later this year, with commercial
deployment scheduled to begin in 2011. AT&Ts LTE rollout schedule
aligns with industry expectations for development of LTE technology
and widespread availability of equipment and compatible LTE mobile
devices. The supplier agreements also complement AT&Ts plans to make
the nations fastest 3G network even faster in advance of LTE networks
and devices scaling, allowing the company to continue delivering the
most advanced mobile broadband experience in the nation.

After testing equipment from multiple suppliers in the field and in a
lab environment, AT&T chose to extend existing relationships with
Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson, which provide equipment for the AT&T 3G
network today. Continued work with these two suppliers will enable
AT&T not only to incorporate high-performance LTE equipment, but also
to take full advantage of compatibility between the suppliers
existing 3G equipment and forthcoming LTE upgrades. As part of the
supplier agreements, 3G equipment delivered to AT&T by the suppliers
starting this year will be easily convertible to LTE, enabling AT&T to
upgrade existing equipment and software rather than install entirely
new equipment in many cases as it deploys the next-generation
technology.

LTE, or Long-Term Evolution, is the next generation of the existing
GSM/UMTS mobile broadband technology platform that powers the AT&T 3G
network today. LTE technology could eventually deliver higher mobile
broadband throughput and lower latency than todays 3G networks,
helping to drive continued growth of powerful mobile applications and
advanced devices. AT&T customers will also benefit from compatibility,
with devices expected to interoperate between 3G and LTE networks.

The selection of Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson is an important step
forward in our ongoing mobile broadband strategy, which is focused on
delivering the best possible combination of speed, performance and
available devices for customers at every level of technology
deployment, said John Stankey, president and CEO, AT&T Operations.
AT&T has a key advantage in that LTE is an evolution of the existing
GSM family of technologies that powers our network and the vast
majority of the worlds global wireless infrastructure today. As some
competitors move away from their existing investment in niche 3G
platforms, we are able to efficiently and quickly move toward LTE
while enhancing our existing 3G performance and providing access to a
strong ecosystem of customer devices.

With this important step, AT&T is sending a clear and strong signal
about its commitment to the evolution of the broadband wireless
networks and to supporting the next generation of mobile applications.
We look forward to joining AT&T on this journey and see this as a
starting point for further collaboration with AT&T to deliver an end-
to-end IP solution for mobile broadband, said Alcatel-Lucent CEO Ben
Verwaayen. This announcement expands on our long-standing
relationship with AT&T one that covers everything from 3G HSPA
infrastructure to network monitoring and management and speaks
volumes about the confidence and trust they have in our leadership in
LTE technology and our ability to deliver a smooth end-to-end
migration path to LTE.

Our ability to work together to meet the demands of a rapidly
changing market has been a crucial element in gaining AT&Ts continued
confidence, said Hans Vestberg, president and CEO, Ericsson. We will
work just as hard to secure a smooth rollout of LTE and support AT&T
in introducing new consumer and business services moving forward."

As part of the agreements, AT&T has designated Alcatel-Lucent and
Ericsson as the domain suppliers for its Radio Access Network Domain.
The multi-year agreement covers radio access network equipment needed
to deliver LTE service. This equipment will be deployed at cell sites
across AT&Ts network to enable LTE speeds and functionality.
Financial terms of the supplier agreements were not disclosed.

AT&Ts Domain Supplier program, launched last September, facilitates a
more collaborative relationship with its equipment and software
suppliers, enabling AT&T to have best technologies in place to serve
its customers. The program is also designed to ensure that the
companys network technology investment accelerates AT&Ts move toward
a network that is well-equipped for the future.

The evolution to LTE is part of AT&Ts ongoing efforts to innovate and
invest in mobile broadband. AT&T today serves twice the number of
smartphone customers as its nearest competitor, and this smartphone
leadership has resulted in mobile broadband traffic that has grown
more than 5,000 percent over the past three years. Smartphones are
just one example of innovation made possible by investment in mobile
broadband.

AT&T in January announced total 2010 capital expenditures are expected
to be between $18 billion and $19 billion. These plans include an
increase of approximately $2 billion in wireless network and backhaul
investment, which will help ensure continued strong results in 3G
network performance as well as preparation for planned deployment of
LTE.

Earlier this year, AT&T upgraded 3G cell sites to HSPA 7.2 technology.
Over the course of 2010 and 2011, AT&T plans to combine this upgrade
with enhanced fiber-optic backhaul connectivity, which will support a
considerable boost in 3G speeds as well as future LTE service. AT&T
offers a total of 10 HSPA 7.2-compatible devices today, enabling
millions of customers to immediately take advantage of faster 3G
speeds as backhaul is deployed. In contrast, LTE devices are still in
development today and are not expected to be widely available until
2011.

This upgrade strategy will enable customers to experience a
significant boost in 3G speed well ahead of the time when an LTE
ecosystem with handsets is available. As LTE is deployed, HSPA 7.2 and
supporting backhaul will provide a much more robust 3G network
experience when users move outside of locations covered by next-
generation networks. In contrast, competitors who are not upgrading
their 3G networks will be unable to provide faster mobile broadband
speeds for smartphones until next-generation devices are available.

AT&T wireless network investment plans for 2010 also include
construction of about 2,000 new cell sites and adding new radio
controllers and carriers at a pace that doubles deployment in 2009.

*AT&T products and services are provided or offered by subsidiaries
and affiliates of AT&T Inc. under the AT&T brand and not by AT&T Inc.

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493


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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 03:41 AM
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On Mar 3, 11:14*pm, "FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers"
<vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 5:30*pm, Dennis Ferguson <dcfergu...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Every AT&T cell installation now includes the equipment for 4G. It is
> > > merely a matter of switching it on next year. The BIG DOG plans whom
> > > he is going to bite next.

>
> > Do you have a link for that? *I know AT&T now pulls fiber to
> > cell sites where ever possible, something which isn't strictly
> > necessary for 3G at the speeds they're running now but which
> > will be necessary for any future speed upgrades, either 3G or
> > Dennis Ferguson

>
> As a matter of fact I have several links. I can always prove what I
> assert. Here is a recent link that indicates what BIG DOG is doing
> while the little dogs sleep.
>
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493
>
> Summary for the USENET LAZY
>
> Feb 10, 2010
>
> Today in a press release, AT&T announced that it will be purchasing
> equipment from telecom manufacturers Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson to
> build out its 4G *LTE network.
>
> AT&T has field trials of LTE planned for later this year, with
> commercial deployment sometime in 2011.
>
> If everything goes according to plan, the carrier lovingly nicknamed
> the Death Star will start rolling out 2,000 new 3G cell sites in
> 2010.
>
> Terms of the agreement between the three companies ensure that any new
> 3G equipment that is deployed will have the capability to be easily
> converted to LTE for the 2011 roll out.
>
> Also note: Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson currently supply AT&T with
> their 3G networking equipment.
>
> Now actual announcement with details from AT&T on rollout of 4G in
> 2011 using LTE (long post)
>
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493
>
> AT&T Selects LTE Equipment Suppliers
>
> Agreements with Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson Extend Existing 3G
> Relationships to Cover Planned Deployment of Next-Generation LTE
> Mobile Broadband Network
>
> Dallas, Texas, February 10, 2010
>
> AT&T Inc.* today announced the selection of Alcatel-Lucent and
> Ericsson as equipment suppliers for the planned deployment of its
> higher-speed LTE mobile broadband network.
>
> The selection of the two suppliers paves the way for AT&Ts planned
> field trials of LTE technology later this year, with commercial
> deployment scheduled to begin in 2011. AT&Ts LTE rollout schedule
> aligns with industry expectations for development of LTE technology
> and widespread availability of equipment and compatible LTE mobile
> devices. The supplier agreements also complement AT&Ts plans to make
> the nations fastest 3G network even faster in advance of LTE networks
> and devices scaling, allowing the company to continue delivering the
> most advanced mobile broadband experience in the nation.
>
> After testing equipment from multiple suppliers in the field and in a
> lab environment, AT&T chose to extend existing relationships with
> Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson, which provide equipment for the AT&T 3G
> network today. Continued work with these two suppliers will enable
> AT&T not only to incorporate high-performance LTE equipment, but also
> to take full advantage of compatibility between the suppliers
> existing 3G equipment and forthcoming LTE upgrades. As part of the
> supplier agreements, 3G equipment delivered to AT&T by the suppliers
> starting this year will be easily convertible to LTE, enabling AT&T to
> upgrade existing equipment and software rather than install entirely
> new equipment in many cases as it deploys the next-generation
> technology.
>
> LTE, or Long-Term Evolution, is the next generation of the existing
> GSM/UMTS mobile broadband technology platform that powers the AT&T 3G
> network today. LTE technology could eventually deliver higher mobile
> broadband throughput and lower latency than todays 3G networks,
> helping to drive continued growth of powerful mobile applications and
> advanced devices. AT&T customers will also benefit from compatibility,
> with devices expected to interoperate between 3G and LTE networks.
>
> The selection of Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson is an important step
> forward in our ongoing mobile broadband strategy, which is focused on
> delivering the best possible combination of speed, performance and
> available devices for customers at every level of technology
> deployment, said John Stankey, president and CEO, AT&T Operations.
> AT&T has a key advantage in that LTE is an evolution of the existing
> GSM family of technologies that powers our network and the vast
> majority of the worlds global wireless infrastructure today. As some
> competitors move away from their existing investment in niche 3G
> platforms, we are able to efficiently and quickly move toward LTE
> while enhancing our existing 3G performance and providing access to a
> strong ecosystem of customer devices.
>
> With this important step, AT&T is sending a clear and strong signal
> about its commitment to the evolution of the broadband wireless
> networks and to supporting the next generation of mobile applications.
> We look forward to joining AT&T on this journey and see this as a
> starting point for further collaboration with AT&T to deliver an end-
> to-end IP solution for mobile broadband, said Alcatel-Lucent CEO Ben
> Verwaayen. This announcement expands on our long-standing
> relationship with AT&T one that covers everything from 3G HSPA
> infrastructure to network monitoring and management and speaks
> volumes about the confidence and trust they have in our leadership in
> LTE technology and our ability to deliver a smooth end-to-end
> migration path to LTE.
>
> Our ability to work together to meet the demands of a rapidly
> changing market has been a crucial element in gaining AT&Ts continued
> confidence, said Hans Vestberg, president and CEO, Ericsson. We will
> work just as hard to secure a smooth rollout of LTE and support AT&T
> in introducing new consumer and business services moving forward."
>
> As part of the agreements, AT&T has designated Alcatel-Lucent and
> Ericsson as the domain suppliers for its Radio Access Network Domain.
> The multi-year agreement covers radio access network equipment needed
> to deliver LTE service. This equipment will be deployed at cell sites
> across AT&Ts network to enable LTE speeds and functionality.
> Financial terms of the supplier agreements were not disclosed.
>
> AT&Ts Domain Supplier program, launched last September, facilitates a
> more collaborative relationship with its equipment and software
> suppliers, enabling AT&T to have best technologies in place to serve
> its customers. The program is also designed to ensure that the
> companys network technology investment accelerates AT&Ts move toward
> a network that is well-equipped for the future.
>
> The evolution to LTE is part of AT&Ts ongoing efforts to innovate and
> invest in mobile broadband. AT&T today serves twice the number of
> smartphone customers as its nearest competitor, and this smartphone
> leadership has resulted in mobile broadband traffic that has grown
> more than 5,000 percent over the past three years. Smartphones are
> just one example of innovation made possible by investment in mobile
> broadband.
>
> AT&T in January announced total 2010 capital expenditures are expected
> to be between $18 billion and $19 billion. These plans include an
> increase of approximately $2 billion in wireless network and backhaul
> investment, which will help ensure continued strong results in 3G
> network performance as well as preparation for planned deployment of
> LTE.
>
> Earlier this year, AT&T upgraded 3G cell sites to HSPA 7.2 technology.
> Over the course of 2010 and 2011, AT&T plans to combine this upgrade
> with enhanced fiber-optic backhaul connectivity, which will support a
> considerable boost in 3G speeds as well as future LTE service. AT&T
> offers a total of 10 HSPA 7.2-compatible devices today, enabling
> millions of customers to immediately take advantage of faster 3G
> speeds as backhaul is deployed. In contrast, LTE devices are still in
> development today and are not expected to be widely available until
> 2011.
>
> This upgrade strategy will enable customers to experience a
> significant boost in 3G speed well ahead of the time when an LTE
> ecosystem with handsets is available. As LTE is deployed, HSPA 7.2 and
> supporting backhaul will provide a much more robust 3G network
> experience when users move outside of locations covered by next-
> generation networks. In contrast, competitors who are not upgrading
> their 3G networks will be unable to provide faster mobile broadband
> speeds for smartphones until next-generation devices are available.
>
> AT&T wireless network investment plans for 2010 also include
> construction of about 2,000 new cell sites and adding new radio
> controllers and carriers at a pace that doubles deployment in 2009.
>
> *AT&T products and services are provided or offered by subsidiaries
> and affiliates of AT&T Inc. under the AT&T brand and not by AT&T Inc.
>
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493


Now for a quick summary for those who never learned to read with
comprehension.

AT&T, the big dog, will easily be able to switch on 4G LTE as it is an
extension of hardware already in use on the superior 3G GSM network.

Verizon and Sprint, the little dogs, use proprietary 'niche' 3G that
is junk when it comes to LTE which is a different animal. That means
these smaller carriers will have to rip out all that old cell
equipment which will have value when tied to a chain and use as a boat
anchor somewhere. They could also take some of it to ham fests and
sell it to some idiot like Larry who will reveal in owning his very
own cell site. I have been there and seen them, they exist.

Then the little dogs will have to buy all new equipment at outrageous
expense and rebuild their whole cell system with the new standard.
Then they will have to transition all those out of date worthless CDMA
phones to 4G LTE phones. This will no doubt anger older people who do
not want to buy another cell phone. Eventually CDMA will soon go dark
across the USA as the wireless spectrum is converted to the more
efficient and far faster LTE.


Meanwhile the AT&T folks already on GSM will see increasingly faster
data rates with existing and/or new phones as the newer 3G/4G
equipment is installed across the USA.

THIS WHY APPLE IS STAYING WITH AT&T.





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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 04:23 AM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article
<79bc1f57-87ce-4203-9db2-f9f59a26d521@g7g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers <vic.healey@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Now for a quick summary for those who never learned to read with
> comprehension.


speaking about yourself?

> AT&T, the big dog, will easily be able to switch on 4G LTE as it is an
> extension of hardware already in use on the superior 3G GSM network.


wrong. lte is totally different.

> Verizon and Sprint, the little dogs, use proprietary 'niche' 3G that
> is junk when it comes to LTE which is a different animal.


verizon is closer to deploying lte than at&t is. sprint is pushing
wimax but they can easily switch once they decide to get with the
party.

> That means
> these smaller carriers will have to rip out all that old cell
> equipment which will have value when tied to a chain and use as a boat
> anchor somewhere.


no they won't. there is no way in hell anyone is going to rip out
anything since existing customers are not going to get new handsets
overnight. cdma and edge/3g are going to be around for a long, long
time.

> They could also take some of it to ham fests and
> sell it to some idiot like Larry who will reveal in owning his very
> own cell site.


that's what femtocells are.

> I have been there and seen them, they exist.


sure you have.

> Then the little dogs will have to buy all new equipment at outrageous
> expense and rebuild their whole cell system with the new standard.
> Then they will have to transition all those out of date worthless CDMA
> phones to 4G LTE phones. This will no doubt anger older people who do
> not want to buy another cell phone. Eventually CDMA will soon go dark
> across the USA as the wireless spectrum is converted to the more
> efficient and far faster LTE.


it ain't going dark any time soon.

> Meanwhile the AT&T folks already on GSM will see increasingly faster
> data rates with existing and/or new phones as the newer 3G/4G
> equipment is installed across the USA.


at&t has stated that they aren't in a rush to deploy lte and they have
enough problems with 3g as it is.

> THIS WHY APPLE IS STAYING WITH AT&T.


wrong. they're staying with at&t because it's financially beneficial to
both parties and/or they haven't ironed out the contract negotiations
with other carriers. rumour has it that the ipad was going to be
multi-carrier but verizon didn't want to match at&t's pricing, so it
isn't. at least not yet anyway.

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 04:23 AM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article
<aa522e12-6a4b-4116-8fcf-6100bc2e65f5@e36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers <vic.healey@gmail.com>
wrote:

> As a matter of fact I have several links. I can always prove what I
> assert.


actually, a lot of times, what you assert is easily disproven.

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 06:47 AM
Larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

"FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers" <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote
in news:aa522e12-6a4b-4116-8fcf-6100bc2e65f5@e36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:

> If everything goes according to plan, the carrier lovingly nicknamed
> the Death Star will start rolling out 2,000 new 3G cell sites in
> 2010.
>


Hey, that ain't fair! I've been calling them "The Borg" since they bought
Cellular One here!



--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

Larry


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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 06:50 AM
Larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

"FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers" <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote
in news:79bc1f57-87ce-4203-9db2-f9f59a26d521@g7g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:

> THIS WHY APPLE IS STAYING WITH AT&T.
>
>
>


Hmm...All this time I thought this was the reason....

http://vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/do...es/maps/3Gcomp
arison.pdf



--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

Larry


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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 08:25 AM
tlvp
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:14:39 -0500, FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mar 3, 5:30 pm, Dennis Ferguson <dcfergu...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> > Every AT&T cell installation now includes the equipment for 4G. It is
>> > merely a matter of switching it on next year. The BIG DOG plans whom
>> > he is going to bite next.

>>
>> Do you have a link for that? I know AT&T now pulls fiber to
>> cell sites where ever possible, something which isn't strictly
>> necessary for 3G at the speeds they're running now but which
>> will be necessary for any future speed upgrades, either 3G or

>
>
>> Dennis Ferguson

>
> As a matter of fact I have several links. I can always prove what I
> assert. Here is a recent link that indicates what BIG DOG is doing
> while the little dogs sleep.
>
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493
>
> Summary for the USENET LAZY
>
> Feb 10, 2010
>
> Today in a press release, AT&T announced that it will be purchasing
> equipment from telecom manufacturers Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson to
> build out its 4G LTE network.
>
> AT&T has field trials of LTE planned for later this year, with
> commercial deployment sometime in 2011.
>
> If everything goes according to plan, the carrier lovingly nicknamed
> the Death Star will start rolling out 2,000 new 3G cell sites in
> 2010.
>
> Terms of the agreement between the three companies ensure that any new
> 3G equipment that is deployed will have the capability to be easily
> converted to LTE for the 2011 roll out.
>
> Also note: Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson currently supply AT&T with
> their 3G networking equipment.
>
> Now actual announcement with details from AT&T on rollout of 4G in
> 2011 using LTE (long post)
>
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493
>
> AT&T Selects LTE Equipment Suppliers
>
> Agreements with Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson Extend Existing 3G
> Relationships to Cover Planned Deployment of Next-Generation LTE
> Mobile Broadband Network
>
> Dallas, Texas, February 10, 2010
>
>
> AT&T Inc.* today announced the selection of Alcatel-Lucent and
> Ericsson as equipment suppliers for the planned deployment of its
> higher-speed LTE mobile broadband network.
>
> The selection of the two suppliers paves the way for AT&T’s planned
> field trials of LTE technology later this year, with commercial
> deployment scheduled to begin in 2011. AT&T’s LTE rollout schedule
> aligns with industry expectations for development of LTE technology
> and widespread availability of equipment and compatible LTE mobile
> devices. The supplier agreements also complement AT&T’s plans to make
> the nation’s fastest 3G network even faster in advance of LTE networks
> and devices scaling, allowing the company to continue delivering the
> most advanced mobile broadband experience in the nation.
>
> After testing equipment from multiple suppliers in the field and in a
> lab environment, AT&T chose to extend existing relationships with
> Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson, which provide equipment for the AT&T 3G
> network today. Continued work with these two suppliers will enable
> AT&T not only to incorporate high-performance LTE equipment, but also
> to take full advantage of compatibility between the suppliers’
> existing 3G equipment and forthcoming LTE upgrades. As part of the
> supplier agreements, 3G equipment delivered to AT&T by the suppliers
> starting this year will be easily convertible to LTE, enabling AT&T to
> upgrade existing equipment and software rather than install entirely
> new equipment in many cases as it deploys the next-generation
> technology.
>
> LTE, or Long-Term Evolution, is the next generation of the existing
> GSM/UMTS mobile broadband technology platform that powers the AT&T 3G
> network today. LTE technology could eventually deliver higher mobile
> broadband throughput and lower latency than today’s 3G networks,
> helping to drive continued growth of powerful mobile applications and
> advanced devices. AT&T customers will also benefit from compatibility,
> with devices expected to interoperate between 3G and LTE networks.
>
> “The selection of Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson is an important step
> forward in our ongoing mobile broadband strategy, which is focused on
> delivering the best possible combination of speed, performance and
> available devices for customers at every level of technology
> deployment,” said John Stankey, president and CEO, AT&T Operations.
> “AT&T has a key advantage in that LTE is an evolution of the existing
> GSM family of technologies that powers our network and the vast
> majority of the world’s global wireless infrastructure today. As some
> competitors move away from their existing investment in niche 3G
> platforms, we are able to efficiently and quickly move toward LTE
> while enhancing our existing 3G performance and providing access to a
> strong ecosystem of customer devices.”
>
> “With this important step, AT&T is sending a clear and strong signal
> about its commitment to the evolution of the broadband wireless
> networks and to supporting the next generation of mobile applications.
> We look forward to joining AT&T on this journey and see this as a
> starting point for further collaboration with AT&T to deliver an end-
> to-end IP solution for mobile broadband,” said Alcatel-Lucent CEO Ben
> Verwaayen. “This announcement expands on our long-standing
> relationship with AT&T – one that covers everything from 3G HSPA
> infrastructure to network monitoring and management – and speaks
> volumes about the confidence and trust they have in our leadership in
> LTE technology and our ability to deliver a smooth end-to-end
> migration path to LTE.”
>
> “Our ability to work together to meet the demands of a rapidly
> changing market has been a crucial element in gaining AT&T’s continued
> confidence,” said Hans Vestberg, president and CEO, Ericsson. “We will
> work just as hard to secure a smooth rollout of LTE and support AT&T
> in introducing new consumer and business services moving forward."
>
> As part of the agreements, AT&T has designated Alcatel-Lucent and
> Ericsson as the domain suppliers for its Radio Access Network Domain.
> The multi-year agreement covers radio access network equipment needed
> to deliver LTE service. This equipment will be deployed at cell sites
> across AT&T’s network to enable LTE speeds and functionality.
> Financial terms of the supplier agreements were not disclosed.
>
> AT&T’s Domain Supplier program, launched last September, facilitates a
> more collaborative relationship with its equipment and software
> suppliers, enabling AT&T to have best technologies in place to serve
> its customers. The program is also designed to ensure that the
> company’s network technology investment accelerates AT&T’s move toward
> a network that is well-equipped for the future.
>
> The evolution to LTE is part of AT&T’s ongoing efforts to innovate and
> invest in mobile broadband. AT&T today serves twice the number of
> smartphone customers as its nearest competitor, and this smartphone
> leadership has resulted in mobile broadband traffic that has grown
> more than 5,000 percent over the past three years. Smartphones are
> just one example of innovation made possible by investment in mobile
> broadband.
>
> AT&T in January announced total 2010 capital expenditures are expected
> to be between $18 billion and $19 billion. These plans include an
> increase of approximately $2 billion in wireless network and backhaul
> investment, which will help ensure continued strong results in 3G
> network performance as well as preparation for planned deployment of
> LTE.
>
> Earlier this year, AT&T upgraded 3G cell sites to HSPA 7.2 technology.
> Over the course of 2010 and 2011, AT&T plans to combine this upgrade
> with enhanced fiber-optic backhaul connectivity, which will support a
> considerable boost in 3G speeds as well as future LTE service. AT&T
> offers a total of 10 HSPA 7.2-compatible devices today, enabling
> millions of customers to immediately take advantage of faster 3G
> speeds as backhaul is deployed. In contrast, LTE devices are still in
> development today and are not expected to be widely available until
> 2011.
>
> This upgrade strategy will enable customers to experience a
> significant boost in 3G speed well ahead of the time when an LTE
> ecosystem with handsets is available. As LTE is deployed, HSPA 7.2 and
> supporting backhaul will provide a much more robust 3G network
> experience when users move outside of locations covered by next-
> generation networks. In contrast, competitors who are not upgrading
> their 3G networks will be unable to provide faster mobile broadband
> speeds for smartphones until next-generation devices are available.
>
> AT&T wireless network investment plans for 2010 also include
> construction of about 2,000 new cell sites and adding new radio
> controllers and carriers at a pace that doubles deployment in 2009.
>
> *AT&T products and services are provided or offered by subsidiaries
> and affiliates of AT&T Inc. under the AT&T brand and not by AT&T Inc.
>
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493


Hmmm ... I read the line

"AT&T offers a total of 10 HSPA 7.2-compatible devices today,
enabling millions of customers to immediately take advantage
of faster 3G speeds as backhaul is deployed."

But what I understand is " ... enabling millions of customers
to fret away, unable to take advantage of their equipment's 3G
capabilities, until sufficient backhaul is finally deployed."

Corporate new-speak is here :-) . Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 11:32 AM
George
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On 3/3/2010 11:14 PM, FUTURE SHOCK: iPad a new class of computers wrote:
> On Mar 3, 5:30 pm, Dennis Ferguson<dcfergu...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Every AT&T cell installation now includes the equipment for 4G. It is
>>> merely a matter of switching it on next year. The BIG DOG plans whom
>>> he is going to bite next.

>>
>> Do you have a link for that? I know AT&T now pulls fiber to
>> cell sites where ever possible, something which isn't strictly
>> necessary for 3G at the speeds they're running now but which
>> will be necessary for any future speed upgrades, either 3G or

>
>
>> Dennis Ferguson

>
> As a matter of fact I have several links. I can always prove what I
> assert. Here is a recent link that indicates what BIG DOG is doing
> while the little dogs sleep.
>
> http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=30493
>
> Summary for the USENET LAZY
>
> Feb 10, 2010
>
> Today in a press release, AT&T announced that it will be purchasing
> equipment from telecom manufacturers Alcatel-Lucent and Ericsson to
> build out its 4G LTE network.
>



So you have confirmed what you wrote is your usual fanboi mastabatory
fantasy. "Will be purchasing" is not equivalent to "Every AT&T cell
installation now includes the equipment for 4G".

If you don't get that idea consider that if your parents said they are
going to but a car it doesn't mean there is already a new car out in the
driveway.



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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 05:43 PM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article <michelle-4F7149.09251304032010@nothing.attdns.com>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > rumour has it that the ipad was going to be multi-carrier but verizon
> > didn't want to match at&t's pricing, so it isn't. at least not yet
> > anyway.

>
> That may be the reason that the Wireless version of the iPad is being
> delayed a month past the release of the WiFi-only version.


it's probably to get fcc approval for the cell radio.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 05:43 PM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article <michelle-3F4873.09231404032010@nothing.attdns.com>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > THIS WHY APPLE IS STAYING WITH AT&T.

>
> You don't know why Apple is staying with AT&T; no one on this newsgroup
> knows why.


very true.

> For that matter, we don't know for how long Apple will stay with AT&T. For
> all we know, come June or July, when the next version of the iPhone will
> probably be released, the iPhone may become available on Verizon as well.


it's more likely to be on t-mobile than verizon (just needs a new 3g
band instead of a whole new air interface), but like you say, nobody
knows. i hope sprint gets it. the iphone would be the only thing that
might save them from collapsing.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 06:21 PM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article <michelle-EFA6A3.12021604032010@nothing.attdns.com>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > it's more likely to be on t-mobile than verizon (just needs a new 3g
> > band instead of a whole new air interface),

>
> Their own coverage map shows less coverage of their EDGE and 3G combined
> than AT&T's 3G map (as shown in Verizon ads).


true but my point is supporting t-mobile is much easier than
sprint/verizon. they're already partway there.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-04-2010, 08:14 PM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article <michelle-38B7F3.13553504032010@nothing.attdns.com>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> > true but my point is supporting t-mobile is much easier than
> > sprint/verizon.

>
> But why bother?


to give people an option. at a minimum, t-mobile customers on a
contract who don't want to break it.

> > they're already partway there.

>
> I understand that Qualcomm has a chip that would let any cellphone with it
> operate on either Verizon or AT&T.


i think their world phones have two separate chips. if apple were to
support verizon, they'd more than likely have one device work on either
carrier rather than one for each, but then again, nobody knows.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2010, 03:59 PM
Dennis Ferguson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On 2010-03-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <040320101514188363%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> > > true but my point is supporting t-mobile is much easier than
>> > > sprint/verizon.
>> >
>> > But why bother?

>>
>> to give people an option. at a minimum, t-mobile customers on a contract
>> who don't want to break it.

>
> I meant, does T-Mobile have enough customers or potential customers (not
> including any possible churn of AT&T iPhone owners) to make it worth the
> expense for Apple?


Beside T-Mobile's band there is also a WCDMA band which is included
in all new phones sold in Europe (900 MHz) which the iPhone lacks.
If Apple wanted to add both of these they could do so simply by
updating the components in the current phone. That is, there are
now dual-band WCDMA power amplifiers to replace the single-band
chips they use now, and there is a 5-band baseband chipset available
from Infineon which is otherwise compatible with the older one in
the current iPhone. Essentially they could now add those two bands
to the phone without increasing the chip count and with very little
software work by using updated components which weren't available
two years ago.

Supporting CDMA, on the other hand, would require them to add support
for a baseband chipset from a different vendor (probably one with
higher power consumption, comparing Qualcomm to Infineon chipsets),
and would either require them to find space for significantly more
chips in a single phone or to sell two different hardware configurations
of the phone, which they don't do now (they did build a second, WiFi-free
phone model for China for a while, but have stopped building that since).
They could certainly do this, of course, but this will cost something
while adding support for T-Mobile is very nearly free, comparatively.

There is also, of course, a third option, that they won't bother to
add T-Mobile's band and will use updated components to reduce the
phone's chip count. Adding T-Mobile's band does cost something
compared to this, but very little compared to supporting CDMA.

Dennis Ferguson

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:40 PM
Dennis Ferguson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

On 2010-03-04, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <040320101321548798%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> they're already partway there.

>
> I understand that Qualcomm has a chip that would let any cellphone with it
> operate on either Verizon or AT&T.


The only all-mode chipset Qualcomm is shipping now in any volume is a
modem chipset, with no voice support. When they announced the voice
chipset last year they said they expected it to be in phones by this
summer, but that more likely means next winter. It is unlikely that
this could be used in this summer's iPhone (though you never know).
Note that this is only a baseband chipset, though; you still need to
add other chips, like power amplifiers, in quantities which grow with
the number of bands and modes you support in a single phone.

I would point out some other stuff about Qualcomm and Apple, though.
If Apple had used Qualcomm from the beginning there would never have
been a 2G iPhone (and remember all the complaints about that phone's
lack of 3G), since Qualcomm had 3G chipsets then while Infineon's
was late. Apple clearly thought there was something about Infineon
worth waiting for (I suspect it is in part because the Infineon chips
have a really low power draw), and I'm not sure those considerations
have changed.

In addition, Qualcomm not only sells radio baseband chipsets but
also ARM application processors, and I am not aware of any smartphone
vendor using a Qualcomm baseband chipset which doesn't also use
a Qualcomm application CPU in the same phone, this including companies
(like Samsung) which also build and sell their own ARM cpus. I believe
this may be because there is something about the way Qualcomm's
smartphone baseband chipsets are integrated that makes using Qualcomm's
application CPUs highly desireable (if not necessary). This isn't
a problem with Infineon. Since Apple has gone to the trouble of
building its own ARM SOIC I can't believe they aren't intending to
use it in every product for which it is suitable, which suggests
that Qualcomm's offerings might be a poorer fit with Apple's plans
than Infineon's are.

Since there aren't really many alternatives to Qualcomm for CDMA
support, I suspect CDMA support might not be among Apple's priorities.

Dennis Ferguson

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2010, 04:42 PM
nospam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In article <michelle-2A3531.16371204032010@nothing.attdns.com>,
Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> I meant, does T-Mobile have enough customers or potential customers (not
> including any possible churn of AT&T iPhone owners) to make it worth the
> expense for Apple?


that's a different question. all i'm saying is that supporting t-mobile
is relatively easy. they already have partial support for it now (2g)
and adding the aws band (3g) is an expense, but much less than what it
would be to support sprint/verizon.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2010, 12:40 AM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Creaky 3G Network Finally Collapsed Wed Morning

In honor of Vic's incessent reporting everytime any phone in the Western
Hemisphere (other than the iPhone) or network (other than AT&T) loses data
access, I'll post a link to this handy guide from PC Magazine's Lance
Ulanoff, called...

"10 Things to Do When Your Phone's Data Plan Stops Working"

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2360903,00.asp

I liked #4:

"4) Look out the window
Come on, don't we all spend too much time looking down at that shiny little
device in our hands? Look up! Look out! Check out all of the people on the
street.staring at their phones."




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