Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
Just like I thought, WiFi is going to rule the airwaves, not 3G.
That is...
Unless 3.5G / 4G, gets MUCH better about power consumption or Jobs will
simply put them ALL out of business. Take your pick!
Cell companies are very inefficient, they've never had the competitive
envirnoment that the computer industry has known, so Jobs and Co will
steamroll them unless they get their act together soon.
Companies that don't hold iPhone contracts are basically dead in the
water at this point, especially now that 3G has been rendered obsolete.
Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to catch up with what
Apple is delivering today. Everything is going EVDO or WiFi, so it was
good that the US never got stuck with old fashioned 3G like Europe did.
The iPhone gets around 6 hours of talk time, 10-40 hours of normal use.
200 hours of standby. 3G would cut that in half. No thanks!
----
Apple chief executive Steve Jobs slammed 3G phones for having limited
battery life as he launched the iPhone in the UK through an exclusive
deal with network operator O2.
O2 is thought to have signed an unprecedented agreement passing around
10pc of all revenues from the iPhone to Apple, whose tough commercial
terms some other mobile networks baulked at.
One of those was Vodafone, whose chief executive Arun Sarin has pointed
out that the first version of the iPhone will not run on 3G mobile
networks, thus offering only the slower web browsing speeds of 2.5G
unless customers are in a wi-fi hotspot.
Mr Jobs, however, said Apple had decided against incorporating 3G for
now because it drained battery life. "The 3G chipsets work well apart
from power. They're real power hogs. Most phones now have battery lives
of two to three hours," he added.
"Our phone has eight hours of talktime life. That's really important
when you start to use the internet and want to use the phone to listen
to music. We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the
five-plus hour range. Hopefully we'll see that late next year."
Ben Wood, director of research at CCS Insight said: ''Jobs knows people
are going to buy iPhone whether it's got 3G or not, it's a lifestyle
device and a fashion item.
"If you put 3G into it, it could cost $20 to $40 extra for Apple to make
each one just to placate network operators who have invested billions in
networks. Doing it this way also allows Jobs to stand up in a year's
time and say 'now the time is right for the 3G iPhone'."
Apple is expected to award a German iPhone distribution deal to Deutsche
Telekom's T-Mobile and a French deal to France Telecom's Orange later
this week.
Asked to respond to talk that he had angered European mobile networks by
playing them off against each other before picking partners Mr Jobs
said: "It's kind of like getting married. We dated a few people but
didn't get married to them. I guess there are a few upset girlfriends
out there."
> Companies that don't hold iPhone contracts are basically dead in the
> water at this point, especially now that 3G has been rendered obsolete.
> Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to catch up with what
> Apple is delivering today. Everything is going EVDO or WiFi, so it was
> good that the US never got stuck with old fashioned 3G like Europe did.
EVDO *is* a 3G standard, you nitwit! And Jobs doesn't control the
cell-phone market (big surprise for you I'm sure!).
On Sep 18, 2:47 pm, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
<snip>
> Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to catch up with what
> Apple is delivering today. Everything is going EVDO or WiFi, so it was
> good that the US never got stuck with old fashioned 3G like Europe
so... 3g sucks, and evdo is good, eh oxford? hahahahaaaaaa!
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:47:52 -0600, Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com>
wrote:
>Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
>it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
>all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>
>Just like I thought, WiFi is going to rule the airwaves, not 3G.
>
>That is...
>
>Unless 3.5G / 4G, gets MUCH better about power consumption or Jobs will
>simply put them ALL out of business. Take your pick!
>
Likely very true. WiFi availability is rapidly expanding, and WiMax
will soon be upon us, meanwhile in Houston, TX ATT 3G is like Swiss
Cheese, hardly better than WiFi, despite maps showing otherwise.
On 2007-09-18 14:47:52 -0700, Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com> said:
> Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
> it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
> all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
No, he said that *today's* 3G chipsets are power hogs, which they are.
Check again in six months. The first generation of 802.11 chips drew
a lot more power than today's equivalents do.
> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 15:47:52 -0600, Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
>> it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
>> all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>>
>> Just like I thought, WiFi is going to rule the airwaves, not 3G.
>>
>> That is...
>>
>> Unless 3.5G / 4G, gets MUCH better about power consumption or Jobs will
>> simply put them ALL out of business. Take your pick!
>>
>
> Likely very true. WiFi availability is rapidly expanding, and WiMax
> will soon be upon us, meanwhile in Houston, TX ATT 3G is like Swiss
> Cheese, hardly better than WiFi, despite maps showing otherwise.
My EDGE+ (2.5G) here in H-Town pretty much gives me an average of 225 kbps.
Oxford wrote:
> Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
> it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
> all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>
> Just like I thought, WiFi is going to rule the airwaves, not 3G.
>
> That is...
>
> Unless 3.5G / 4G, gets MUCH better about power consumption or Jobs will
> simply put them ALL out of business. Take your pick!
>
> Cell companies are very inefficient, they've never had the competitive
> envirnoment that the computer industry has known, so Jobs and Co will
> steamroll them unless they get their act together soon.
>
> Companies that don't hold iPhone contracts are basically dead in the
> water at this point, especially now that 3G has been rendered obsolete.
> Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to catch up with what
> Apple is delivering today. Everything is going EVDO or WiFi, so it was
> good that the US never got stuck with old fashioned 3G like Europe did.
>
> The iPhone gets around 6 hours of talk time, 10-40 hours of normal use.
> 200 hours of standby. 3G would cut that in half. No thanks!
>
> ----
>
> Apple chief executive Steve Jobs slammed 3G phones for having limited
> battery life as he launched the iPhone in the UK through an exclusive
> deal with network operator O2.
>
> O2 is thought to have signed an unprecedented agreement passing around
> 10pc of all revenues from the iPhone to Apple, whose tough commercial
> terms some other mobile networks baulked at.
>
> One of those was Vodafone, whose chief executive Arun Sarin has pointed
> out that the first version of the iPhone will not run on 3G mobile
> networks, thus offering only the slower web browsing speeds of 2.5G
> unless customers are in a wi-fi hotspot.
>
> Mr Jobs, however, said Apple had decided against incorporating 3G for
> now because it drained battery life. "The 3G chipsets work well apart
> from power. They're real power hogs. Most phones now have battery lives
> of two to three hours," he added.
>
> "Our phone has eight hours of talktime life. That's really important
> when you start to use the internet and want to use the phone to listen
> to music. We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the
> five-plus hour range. Hopefully we'll see that late next year."
>
> Ben Wood, director of research at CCS Insight said: ''Jobs knows people
> are going to buy iPhone whether it's got 3G or not, it's a lifestyle
> device and a fashion item.
>
> "If you put 3G into it, it could cost $20 to $40 extra for Apple to make
> each one just to placate network operators who have invested billions in
> networks. Doing it this way also allows Jobs to stand up in a year's
> time and say 'now the time is right for the 3G iPhone'."
>
> Apple is expected to award a German iPhone distribution deal to Deutsche
> Telekom's T-Mobile and a French deal to France Telecom's Orange later
> this week.
>
> Asked to respond to talk that he had angered European mobile networks by
> playing them off against each other before picking partners Mr Jobs
> said: "It's kind of like getting married. We dated a few people but
> didn't get married to them. I guess there are a few upset girlfriends
> out there."
>
> http://snipurl.com/1qvfh
Actually Jobs said today that it "will be about another year" before 3G
chips will have low power consumption.
> > Companies that don't hold iPhone contracts are basically dead in the
> > water at this point, especially now that 3G has been rendered obsolete.
> > Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to catch up with what
> > Apple is delivering today. Everything is going EVDO or WiFi, so it was
> > good that the US never got stuck with old fashioned 3G like Europe did.
>
> EVDO *is* a 3G standard, you nitwit! And Jobs doesn't control the
> cell-phone market (big surprise for you I'm sure!).
But it is part of CDMA2000, which doesn't suck power as badly as 3G.
Ah, guess you didn't get the memo, Job now controls the upper portion of
the Cellphone Industry. He'll work his way down over the coming years to
control most of the industry, so everyone better shape up or ship out.
There really isn't any other choice for cell companies at this point.
It sounds like Frankster doesn't know how all this works...
John C. Randolph <jcr.nospam@nospam.mac.com> wrote:
> > Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
> > it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
> > all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>
> No, he said that *today's* 3G chipsets are power hogs, which they are.
> Check again in six months. The first generation of 802.11 chips drew
> a lot more power than today's equivalents do.
Yes, and if the 3G group can rise to meet Steve's challenge they have a
chance, but if not, they will be superseded. There is no reason a faster
protocol needs to be power hungry, it's poor chip design that's all.
> >Unless 3.5G / 4G, gets MUCH better about power consumption or Jobs will
> >simply put them ALL out of business. Take your pick!
> >
>
> Likely very true. WiFi availability is rapidly expanding, and WiMax
> will soon be upon us, meanwhile in Houston, TX ATT 3G is like Swiss
> Cheese, hardly better than WiFi, despite maps showing otherwise.
yes, the cell industry is in a state of "collapse", there is no way they
can compete against the iPhone AND free / or closed WiFi. "the internet"
is the network, not some proprietary format that is decades old.
Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com> wrote in
news:colalovesmacs-4EE5B2.18372318092007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net:
> "Frankster" <Frank@SPAM2TRASH.com> wrote:
>
>> > Companies that don't hold iPhone contracts are basically dead in
>> > the water at this point, especially now that 3G has been rendered
>> > obsolete. Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to
>> > catch up with what Apple is delivering today. Everything is going
>> > EVDO or WiFi, so it was good that the US never got stuck with old
>> > fashioned 3G like Europe did.
>>
>> EVDO *is* a 3G standard, you nitwit! And Jobs doesn't control the
>> cell-phone market (big surprise for you I'm sure!).
>
> But it is part of CDMA2000, which doesn't suck power as badly as 3G.
>
Oh, my stupid little troll. You need to learn more before posting in the
big peoples' groups. 3G is a generic term for technology, not a platform
like CDMA2000. EVDO is most certainly 3G technology by every definition
known to man.
And keep spouting about wi-fi. Chicago and San Francisco say hello- they
will bne joined by more major motropolitan areas by the end of the year.
Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com> wrote in
news:colalovesmacs-F0170A.18403818092007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net:
> John C. Randolph <jcr.nospam@nospam.mac.com> wrote:
>
>> > Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs
>> > said it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G
>> > approach for all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>>
>> No, he said that *today's* 3G chipsets are power hogs, which they
>> are.
>> Check again in six months. The first generation of 802.11 chips
>> drew
>> a lot more power than today's equivalents do.
>
> Yes, and if the 3G group can rise to meet Steve's challenge they have
> a chance, but if not, they will be superseded. There is no reason a
> faster protocol needs to be power hungry, it's poor chip design that's
> all.
>
> John <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually Jobs said today that it "will be about another year" before 3G
>> chips will have low power consumption.
>
> it won't happen. 3G is dead at this point in the game.
>
And you declare this without even knowing what it is.
John C. Randolph wrote:
> On 2007-09-18 14:47:52 -0700, Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com> said:
>
>> Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
>> it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
>> all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>
> No, he said that *today's* 3G chipsets are power hogs, which they are.
> Check again in six months. The first generation of 802.11 chips drew a
> lot more power than today's equivalents do.
This was really just a rationalization in an attempt to cast the iPhone
competition in a bad light, until Apple can catch up and offer 3G.
Yes 3G uses a lot of power, so does WiFi. A lot of users of 3G are
tethering, and the large laptop battery is powering the phone via USB.
It's two different markets. Most iPhone users are content with Edge to
use when on the road, and at work and home they have WiFi. The HSDPA and
EVDO users are willing to pay for high-speed ubiquitous access. For now,
WiFi access is very hit or miss, and of course there is no handoff.
WiMax will change all this if it ever gets deployed sufficiently, but
we're a long way from that.
In news:colalovesmacs-4EE5B2.18372318092007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net,
Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com> typed:
> "Frankster" <Frank@SPAM2TRASH.com> wrote:
>
>>> Companies that don't hold iPhone contracts are basically dead in the
>>> water at this point, especially now that 3G has been rendered obsolete.
>>> Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to catch up with what
>>> Apple is delivering today. Everything is going EVDO or WiFi, so it was
>>> good that the US never got stuck with old fashioned 3G like Europe did.
>>
>> EVDO *is* a 3G standard, you nitwit! And Jobs doesn't control the
>> cell-phone market (big surprise for you I'm sure!).
>
> But it is part of CDMA2000, which doesn't suck power as badly as 3G.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA2000
This is applicable to Verizon & Sprint - NOT ATT - ATT uses GSM
>
> Ah, guess you didn't get the memo, Job now controls the upper portion of
> the Cellphone Industry. He'll work his way down over the coming years to
> control most of the industry, so everyone better shape up or ship out.
>
> There really isn't any other choice for cell companies at this point.
>
> It sounds like Frankster doesn't know how all this works...
Verizon & Sprint use CDMA/1xRTT/EVDO and are implementing CDMA2000
All of the current phones will contimue to be compatable as CDMA2000 is
implemented.
ATT & T-Mobile use GSM/GPRS/EDGE and will eventually convert to
UMTS/HSDPA also kmown as WCDMA.
When ATT converts to WCDMA the current GSM phones will no longer work.
Like GSM phones & TDMA phones are not compatable.
And since the iPhone is GSM it will be like having a TDMA phone on a GSM
network.
So by all this, the people that were waiting for the next model that was
rumored to have 3G is out of the question ?
Look for another price cut in the not to near future.
When they get down to 200-250 I'll go check them out again.
Doing the web at 100K Is not fun.
"zara" <albert@heddonlures.com> wrote in message
news:nZ_Hi.47756$wN3.27516@bignews2.bellsouth.net. ..
> What are you doing here , Dickhead? Go back with the other Hardons in
> your own group.
>
On Sep 18, 5:47 pm, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
> Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
> it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
> all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>
> Just like I thought, WiFi is going to rule the airwaves, not 3G.
>
> That is...
>
[Snip]
Steve Jobs today ordered all Maccies to eat a pound of dog turds a day
or face excommunication. Oxford chomped down ten pounds today alone
and made 15 posts mocking anyone who doesn't eat dog turds as
'woefully behind the times'.
"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@mac.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-55C943.15475218092007@mpls-nnrp-04.inet.qwest.net...
> Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
> it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
> all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>
> Just like I thought, WiFi is going to rule the airwaves, not 3G.
>
> That is...
>
> Unless 3.5G / 4G, gets MUCH better about power consumption or Jobs will
> simply put them ALL out of business. Take your pick!
>
> Cell companies are very inefficient, they've never had the competitive
> envirnoment that the computer industry has known, so Jobs and Co will
> steamroll them unless they get their act together soon.
>
> Companies that don't hold iPhone contracts are basically dead in the
> water at this point, especially now that 3G has been rendered obsolete.
> Cellphone companies are going to have to scramble to catch up with what
> Apple is delivering today. Everything is going EVDO or WiFi, so it was
> good that the US never got stuck with old fashioned 3G like Europe did.
>
> The iPhone gets around 6 hours of talk time, 10-40 hours of normal use.
> 200 hours of standby. 3G would cut that in half. No thanks!
>
> ----
There are multiple possibilities here.
1. Oxford is just a troll. Making totally outrageous statements to incite flames...
Could anyone actually BE that stupid??
2. Oxford is one of the biggest fucking idiots I have seen in years.
A. EVDO is cellular. Oxford contradicts himself above.So much for the self
proclaimed genius he professes to be. PROOF HE IS A MORON.
B. Oxford, you have it DEAD wrong - basically 180 degrees wrong. The technology
that is dying and will NEVER be ubiquitous (like you contend) is WiFi.
Earthlink, San Francisco, Houston, etc, etc - it just ain't gonna happen - EVER. Now, wimax
may be something to watch, but wifi certainly will NEVER be a replacement for cellular.
To say so shows just how ignorant this dull tool Oxford really is.
3. Certainly Apple has to watch battery life. Without a USER CHANGEABLE battery, Apple has it's ASS
hanging waaaay out on a limb. This "3G bad" shit is nothing more than double speak. Apple fucked up and
now CAN'T support a better technology, because of battery life and potential pissed off customers.
Your infallible Apple - ISN'T. A BIG fuck up has been made and this is simply spin control, nothing more.
I personally thing Oxford IS a both a fucking idiot AND a slimy troll.
"DTC" <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> wrote in message news:yS0Ii.9096$z_5.1272@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Oxford wrote:
>> yes, the cell industry is in a state of "collapse", there is no way they can compete against the iPhone AND free / or
>> closed WiFi.
>
> Citations please....
> NEVER be ubiquitous (like you contend) is WiFi. Now, wimax
> may be something to watch, but wifi certainly will NEVER be a
> replacement for cellular.
ah, shifting goal posts? just as i figured.
wimax is wifi, the cell network is dead, just as i've been saying.
"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@mac.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-5B0940.22203218092007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net...
> "Reality" <reality@sucks.dontit.net> wrote:
>
>> NEVER be ubiquitous (like you contend) is WiFi. Now, wimax
>> may be something to watch, but wifi certainly will NEVER be a
>> replacement for cellular.
>
> ah, shifting goal posts? just as i figured.
>
> wimax is wifi, the cell network is dead, just as i've been saying.
Again demonstrating his complete and TOTAL ignorance....
WiFi operates on 2 UNLICENSED frequencies. Same as many other devices.
Like cordless phones, baby monitors, etc, etc.... It is NOT an ideal RF situation.
WiMax's implementation in the US will be using LICENSED frequencies.
(Just like good old cellular Oxford.)
The two are very definitly NOT the same. And, Sprint-Nextel will be building
wimax out as an overlay to existing CELLULAR infastructure. Clearwire also
colocates on existing cellular infastructure the majority of the time.
Comparing Wimax with Wi-Fi
Due to the fact both WiMAX and Wi-Fi begin with the same two letters and both have a
connection to wireless connectivity and the Internet, comparisons and confusion between
the two are frequent. Despite this, the two standards are aimed at TOTALLY different applications.
WiMAX is a long-range system, covering many kilometers that typically uses licensed spectrum
to deliver a point-to-point connection to the Internet from an ISP to an end user.
Wi-Fi is a shorter range system, typically hundreds of meters, that uses unlicensed spectrum
to provide access to a network, typically covering only the network operator's own property.
Typically Wi-Fi is used by an end user to access their own network, which may or may not be
connected to the Internet.
If WiMAX provides services analogous to a cellphone, Wi-Fi is more analogous to a simple
low tech and short range cordless phone.
WiMAX and Wi-Fi have quite different Quality of Service (QoS) mechanisms. WiMAX uses a mechanism
based on setting up connections between the Base Station and the user device (cell again). Each
connection is based on specific scheduling algorithms, which means that QoS parameters can be
guaranteed for each flow.
WiFi has introduced a QoS mechanism similar to fixed Ethernet, where packets can receive different priorities
based on their tags. This means that QoS is relative between packets/flows, as opposed to guaranteed.
WiMAX is highly scalable from what are called 'femto' scale remote stations to multi-sector 'maxi' scale base
that handle complex tasks of management and mobile handoff functions and include MIMO-AAS smart antenna
subsystems.
> 3. Certainly Apple has to watch battery life. Without a USER CHANGEABLE
> battery, Apple has it's ASS hanging waaaay out on a limb.
I really can't understand why Apple didn't make the battery user
changeable. The trick is to incorporate the battery compartment into the
cosmetic design, not dismiss it as irrelevent.
> This "3G bad" shit is nothing more than double speak. Apple fucked up and
> now CAN'T support a better technology, because of battery life and
> potential pissed off customers.
And it certainly is a better technology.
This will come back to bite Apple in a few months because the
competition won't stand idle. The iPhone US launch put the 3G community
on notice, and power efficient chipsets are probably being fabbed at
this moment.
> Your infallible Apple - ISN'T. A BIG fuck up has been made
> and this is simply spin control, nothing more.
"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@mac.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-55C943.15475218092007@mpls-nnrp-04.inet.qwest.net...
> Looks like the slow 3G network died a terrible death today. Jobs said
> it's a "power hog", so basically that's the end of the 3G approach for
> all cellphone companies worldwide going forward.
>
> Just like I thought, WiFi is going to rule the airwaves, not 3G.
>
> That is...
>
> Unless 3.5G / 4G, gets MUCH better about power consumption or Jobs will
> simply put them ALL out of business. Take your pick!
>
> Cell companies are very inefficient, they've never had the competitive
> envirnoment that the computer industry has known, so Jobs and Co will
> steamroll them unless they get their act together soon.
>
snip, snip, snip
Isn't he the same guy who took over the desktop PC market back in the
eighties?
> ah, shifting goal posts? just as i figured.
>
> wimax is wifi
How is WiMax anything like WiFi? WiFi is unlicensed, low-power, and
localized, and WiMax is wide-area, commercial and licensed- in that
way it's much closer to cellular than it is to Wi-Fi- it's simply a
wireless data service rather than wireless "voice." The fact that 70%
or so of it is being deployed by Sprint should give you a clue...
Perhaps the first two letters are confusing you? Yes- they're both"
wireless"- so is cellular- would you like it better if we called it
"WiVoice"?
> the cell network is dead, just as i've been saying.
Yep, you'll feel so much better writing a check to Sprint or
Clearwire each month instead of AT&T, huh? At least after you
replace your iPhone with a future WiMax-compatible one... (That is,
if Jobs doesn't declare WiMax as "too power hungry" and insists that
all future iPhones only have RJ-11 jacks and low-power analog modem
chipsets onboard...)
--
"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003
Jobs SLAMS 3G - Wipes out its future! 
Linear Mode
