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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2008, 11:11 PM
iPhone News
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Default new logging feature found (iPhone)

A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta
that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on
cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it
possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:48 AM
Larry
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid-
B428AE.19113718032008@news.giganews.com:

> A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta
> that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on
> cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it
> possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been.


http://dtrask.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/vcsmapper.png
Here's what you look like on the N800's Maemo Mapper. The poster didn't
have his position and trail onscreen from the little Bluetooth GPS so he
may not have one. Your position, in motion, looks like a blue dot with a
line pointing out of it showing your course. Behind the dot will be a red
trail going back since the last time you cleared it, ad nauseum. See the
lanes on those roads with the white line down the middle? The GPS position
puts you in the proper lane you are in and the trail is so accurate you can
see yourself making lane changes exactly where did. If you have a good 3D
fix, when you pull into a parking space at the mall, your blue dot is
exactly in the space you are occupying. If you take the tablet with you
into the mall, you can easily find your car by booting Maemo mapper on the
way out because you left the GPS in the car so the trail doesn't trail you
into the mall...showing you exactly where the car is located when you come
out. Parking lot range with the GPS in the window to the tablet in your
hand is well over 50 ft for updates.....incase someone moved your car while
you were gone.

This picture looks like Google Earth. I use Virtual Earth's COMPOSITE
OVERLAY on my Maemo Mapper. That overlays the street map over the
satellite photos and they both update, automatically, over the EVDO data
link from Alltel on the road, in motion....

What's the iPhone display look like without GPS accuracy? "Somewhere in
the shaded area"??


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:55 AM
Larry
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

iPhone News <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in news:invalid-
B428AE.19113718032008@news.giganews.com:

> A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta
> that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on
> cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it
> possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been.


Here's thoughtfix taking a hike from the parking lot to a geocaching site
looking for the prize.

http://bp3.blogger.com/_Ki_XGZxWsq4/...AAAAABmQ/CE5C-
mmMPRw/s1600-h/screenshot07.png

Geocaching's great fun. Setting up Geocaching is even more fun...(c;


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-19-2008, 10:08 PM
Thurman
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)


"iPhone News" <invalid@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:invalid-B428AE.19113718032008@news.giganews.com...
>A new logging feature has been found in the iPhone firmware 1.2 beta
> that tracks and stores the physichal location of the iPhone based on
> cell tower triangulation and Wi-Fi longitude/latitude data, making it
> possible to not only know where you are, but where you have been.


Which, essentially, is what some e911 services have been doing since June
2003.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008, 05:22 AM
Todd Allcock
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

At 19 Mar 2008 17:08:17 -0500 Thurman wrote:
>


> Which, essentially, is what some e911 services have been doing since June
> 2003.


Not with WiFi, though, at least not the cell carriers.

However, this outfit has done it for awhile :
http://www.navizon.com. They sell software that lets Wi-Fi enabled phones
without GPS use cell tower and WiFi AP location simulate an onboard GPS.

They get the data by "buying it" from WiFi and GPS enabled phone users.
You install their logging software turn on your GPS and WiFi and it
calculates tower and AP coordinates frand uploads them to their servers,
crediting you with points. Every 1000 cell towers or 5000 APs logged (or
weighted combination) earns you $20 deposited in your PayPal account.
Navizon essentially paid for my BT GPS module while I was on vacation last
summer. (My most prolific logging earned me $20 in one day's walking and
driving through Manhattan! There are a LOT of WiFi APs in the city that
never sleeps!)



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:13 PM
Tom Payne
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> What's the iPhone display look like without GPS accuracy? "Somewhere in
> the shaded area"??


It looks pretty much the same as the example you have provided. But full
blown GPS in a tool like the iPhone is impractical at this point and
will soon be obsolete. Too much room and too much drain on the battery.
Besides almost all new cars have GPS and portable units are so cheap
there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think Apple is ahead
of the curve by not pursuing this feature.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008, 05:24 PM
Larry
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Tom Payne <tp@nospam.net> wrote in
news:tp-9D4872.09134820032008@news.giganews.com:

> Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>> What's the iPhone display look like without GPS accuracy? "Somewhere
>> in the shaded area"??

>
> It looks pretty much the same as the example you have provided. But
> full blown GPS in a tool like the iPhone is impractical at this point
> and will soon be obsolete. Too much room and too much drain on the
> battery. Besides almost all new cars have GPS and portable units are
> so cheap there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think
> Apple is ahead of the curve by not pursuing this feature.
>


Tom, you should be working for Hillary Clinton! What a spinmeister!

There's no way in hell the iPhone with this crapware is going to place you
at a point in the lane of a road or in a certain parking space. It might
be able to place you at the whole mall, about that area.

http://www.nokiausa.com/A4630703
If they had any brains, they'd use an external Bluetooth device like the
LD-3W tiny GPS receiver I'm using with the N800 tablet. It's tiny,
REPLACEABLE, STANDARD, Nokia sellphone battery runs 22 hours of CONTINUOUS
use on a charge, and recharges in 3 hours for tomorrow. In standby, with
no bluetooth connection, it will standby for 7 days. It runs all the time
in my car, 24/7, and I charge it once a week, either from the car or the
N800's charger in the house (same STANDARD Nokia power supply their phones
use). A Bluetooth pairing turns it on.

Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS navigates
every plane and ship on the planet!

LD-3W is what the iphone needs for nav....even comes with commercial Nav
software, since Nokia just went and bought Navicore, Inc.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008, 06:57 PM
Tom Payne
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS navigates
> every plane and ship on the planet!


I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I
stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so cheap
there is no reason to have one on your phone.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008, 09:58 PM
Larry
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Tom Payne <tp@nospam.net> wrote in
news:tp-76C7B2.14570920032008@news.giganews.com:

> Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>> Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS
>> navigates every plane and ship on the planet!

>
> I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I
> stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so
> cheap there is no reason to have one on your phone.
>


They just started putting GPS chips in sellphones so the DEA can track you.

Unfortunately, because it's a SELLphone, you are not allowed to USE the GPS
you paid for....another stupid carrier decision.


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2008, 10:32 PM
News
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)



Larry wrote:

> Tom Payne <tp@nospam.net> wrote in
> news:tp-76C7B2.14570920032008@news.giganews.com:
>
>
>>Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Who told you GPS is obsolete? They need some re-education. GPS
>>>navigates every plane and ship on the planet!

>>
>>I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I
>>stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so
>>cheap there is no reason to have one on your phone.
>>

>
>
> They just started putting GPS chips in sellphones so the DEA can track you.
>
> Unfortunately, because it's a SELLphone, you are not allowed to USE the GPS
> you paid for....another stupid carrier decision.
>


Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 12:26 AM
Todd Allcock
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

At 20 Mar 2008 09:13:49 -0400 Tom Payne wrote:

> Besides almost all new cars have GPS and portable units are so cheap
> there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think Apple is ahead
> of the curve by not pursuing this feature.


There's nothing like Oxlogic.

And if we soon evolve into pointy headed creatures with a single antennae
to receive sound instead of two ears, Apple will have been "ahead of the
curve" by "not pursuing" stereo bluetooth headphone support as well... ;-)




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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 02:21 AM
Larry
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:fruvis$k81$1@aioe.org:

> At 20 Mar 2008 09:13:49 -0400 Tom Payne wrote:
>
>> Besides almost all new cars have GPS and portable units are so cheap
>> there will be no need to have one on your phone. I think Apple is
>> ahead of the curve by not pursuing this feature.

>
> There's nothing like Oxlogic.
>
> And if we soon evolve into pointy headed creatures with a single
> antennae to receive sound instead of two ears, Apple will have been
> "ahead of the curve" by "not pursuing" stereo bluetooth headphone
> support as well... ;-)
>
>


I like my Motorola S9 BT stereo headset so much, I solved this lack-of-
BT problem for all my old audio devices:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ...834&WT.mc_n=67
&WT.mc_t=U&cm_ven=COMPARISON%
20SHOPPING&cm_cat=PRICEGRABBER&cm_pla=DATAFEED-%3EPRODUCTS&cm_ite=1%
20PRODUCT&cm_keycode=67

Sorry about the wordwrap...(d^

Print this page out and take it to Best Buy with you. Those *******s
want $79 for it, even though this is discontinued by Sony. Buy it on
your credit card. Walk from the cash register to the service desk, whip
out your printout and invoke the Best Buy "Price minus 15%" guarantee,
bringing your price down to $42.46 + tax. She'll credit you the
difference to your credit card.....saving you even more money than CC
wants for discontinued stock. BB doesn't have to know CC doesn't carry
it in the store up the street. It's in the CC warehouse under "stuff to
dump that's obsolete" $42 and no shipping charges...not a bad "best
buy"...(c;

This tiny Sony transmitter must not have sold well at $80, even though
it's BT, really tiny and is Li-Ion powered with a drop-in charging stand
in 3 hours from dead. I left mine paired and playing to see how long it
would run because my Li-Ion was so old it was dead-as-a-doorknob and I
figured it was toast when I got it. It recharged right back up and its
capacity returned after a few recharge cycles, just like Sony said it
would. Specs say 11 continuous hours of BT paired play. Mine runs
almost 14 to the S9! Range to the S9 with the tiny transmitter clipped
to my carrying case is about 50' not 30 to BT specs. Playing in the
center of the house, I can wear the phones anywhere and it still plays,
DEAD QUIET with no background noise at all from the N800 tablet's
standard stereo headphone jack. Hitting it hard with audio doesn't seem
to distort it, either. I use the volume control on the S9 by my left
ear to adjust volume.

It only pairs with devices who use 0000 for the pairing code, so make
sure your headphones can use 0000 before you try it. Works great on all
stereo headphone jacks in the house from the old stereo to the old
Archos Studio 20MB MP3 player to my favorite Xclef 120GB portable MP3
player, my N800 tablet and all. Bluetooth audio is FAR better than the
noisy damned analog FM transmitters I just gave away...(c;

Tiger Direct has the $129.95 Motorola S9 BT headset/sellphone handsfree
for $49.95! That's really cheap!

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...m-Details.asp?
EdpNo=3581351&sku=M151-2310&SRCCODE=WEBGOOGSM&CMP=KNC-GOOGL

Sorry about the wordwrapping...dammit.

The S9 is paired for sellphone use with my Motorola Z6m toyphone. If
you go into the toyphone's BT control panel and shut down the A2DP
pairing so the phone doesn't hog the stereo away from the Sony
transmitter, you can pair BOTH the Sony for stereo and the Sellphone for
answering calls, simultaneously, which is really neat. When a call
comes in, or you press the call button to voice-activate a Sellphone
call, the audio from the stereo is muted until the call hangs up, then
resumes as before....just the way it should. UNfortunately, Motorola
got lazy and didn't hook the Sellphone calls to BOTH earphones, so you
only get phone calls in your left ear, which I think is a screwup. The
new S9 model may be different. Hey, it's ONLY $49, you know!

Well, if anyone's interested, it works great, here...best I've ever
found. Now it doesn't matter if this device or that device is A2DP
compatible. As long as it has a mini headphone jack, I gotcha
covered...(c;

.......even on iPhoneys!


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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 04:22 AM
Todd Allcock
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

At 20 Mar 2008 14:57:09 -0400 Tom Payne wrote:

> I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I
> stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so cheap
> there is no reason to have one on your phone.



Same is true of MP3 players, yet that's the iPhone's main feature.

And, if you recall the early iPhone commercials, Google Maps was/is a
leading feature as well. Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with
still images.




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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 01:20 PM
Tom Payne
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

In article <frvek7$m3$1@aioe.org>,
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

> Same is true of MP3 players, yet that's the iPhone's main feature.


Incorrect. The main feature of the iPhone is its WiFi feature.

> And, if you recall the early iPhone commercials, Google Maps was/is a
> leading feature as well. Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with
> still images.


It is MUCH more than Google maps. Assuming that you are not just a shill
for a certain competing cell phone manufacturer, I'd suggest you read up
on the iPhones features before making such foolish comments.

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 01:58 PM
Larry
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:frvek7$m3$1
@aioe.org:

> Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with
> still images.
>


Oh, I LIKE that one!...(c;

Great tagline!

.........

Rap is to music what Etch-A-Sketch is to art.


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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 01:59 PM
Larry
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Tom Payne <tp@nospam.net> wrote in news:tp-068E52.09201221032008
@news.giganews.com:

> It is MUCH more than Google maps. Assuming that you are not just a shill
> for a certain competing cell phone manufacturer, I'd suggest you read up
> on the iPhones features before making such foolish comments.
>
>


Todd's a big wheel at Nokia. He's the guy who dreamed up the Morph!

Cool phone, Todd! I want one!


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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 03:52 PM
SMS
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

News wrote:

> Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS.


Or to the HTC devices with an integral GPS.

It's a virtual certainty that a future iPhone will have an integrated
GPS, or at least allow the use of a Bluetooth GPS.

The iPhone is the perfect platform for a GPS, with its huge amount of
Flash, and its large screen.

Apple's just a little behind the curve right now. They need to get the
3G iPhone out the door, and fix the issues with the current model (i.e.
the lack of voice-dialing).

Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of
battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For
handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone, while
for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the
iPhone in a better location.

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 03:54 PM
News
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)



SMS wrote:
> News wrote:
>
>> Does not apply to many HP iPaqs that support/display native A-GPS.

>
>
> Or to the HTC devices with an integral GPS.
>
> It's a virtual certainty that a future iPhone will have an integrated
> GPS, or at least allow the use of a Bluetooth GPS.
>
> The iPhone is the perfect platform for a GPS, with its huge amount of
> Flash, and its large screen.
>
> Apple's just a little behind the curve right now. They need to get the
> 3G iPhone out the door, and fix the issues with the current model (i.e.
> the lack of voice-dialing).
>
> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of
> battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For
> handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone, while
> for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the
> iPhone in a better location.




GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 03:55 PM
SMS
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 20 Mar 2008 14:57:09 -0400 Tom Payne wrote:
>
>> I was speaking of putting GPS on cell phones as being obsolete. As I
>> stated, with GPS now on just about every car and portable units so cheap
>> there is no reason to have one on your phone.

>
>
> Same is true of MP3 players, yet that's the iPhone's main feature.
>
> And, if you recall the early iPhone commercials, Google Maps was/is a
> leading feature as well. Google Maps without GPS is like YouTube with
> still images.


And don't forget the fact that GPS is standard on very few cars. It's a
very high cost optional feature, which is why portable units sell so
well. A good portable unit is still $250.

Apple is behind the curve with the iPhone by not having an integrated
GPS, and/or not allowing Bluetooth to be used with an external GPS. It'd
be a great platform for a GPS with its large touch screen, large amount
of Flash, and long battery life.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 06:42 PM
Todd Allcock
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)


"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
news:HLednYicwqenR37anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
>> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms of
>> battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For handheld
>> use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone, while for
>> in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash, with the
>> iPhone in a better location.

>
>
>
> GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive.


I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones include a
"real" GPS- most rely on the carrier's E911 GPS data sold on a subscription
basis. I think BT GPS support is good enough, if you're trying to keep
size/battery life in check. With the current crop of tiny
(keychain/"lipstick") GPS units with high sensitivity, good battery life and
auto on/off, Apple could easily market an "official" Apple iPhone/iPod Touch
keychain BT GPS (you know, resell an existing OEM product for twice the
money in a brushed aluminum case with an Apple logo on it!) and that would
effective end the "no GPS" objection, which, IMO, has to be right up their
with no voice dial, no 3rd party apps, no 3G and no Exchange support as
leading iPhone negatives. Exchange and 3rd party are being addressed, 3G
will be in a newer model, so if they add BT GPS support and voice dial, I'll
have very little left to complain about! (But I'm sure i'll think of
something when Oxford posts something else stupid!)






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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 06:49 PM
Todd Allcock
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)


"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A6866B9E391Fnoonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> Tom Payne <tp@nospam.net> wrote in news:tp-068E52.09201221032008
> @news.giganews.com:
>
> Todd's a big wheel at Nokia. He's the guy who dreamed up the Morph!
>
> Cool phone, Todd! I want one!


If I was a big wheel at Nokia, I'd have stuck an unlocked GSM module in your
N800 and marketed it as a $400 "iPhone killer" last June!






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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 07:00 PM
News
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)



Todd Allcock wrote:
>
> "News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
> news:HLednYicwqenR37anZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>
>>> Personally, I think an application for the iPhone, using an external
>>> Bluetooth GPS, is an okay solution, and would have benefits in terms
>>> of battery life and in keeping the iPhone as thin as it is now. For
>>> handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone,
>>> while for in-car use the module can be optimally placed on the dash,
>>> with the iPhone in a better location.

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> GPS must be onboard/integral. Anything else is uncompetitive.

>
>
> I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones
> include a "real" GPS



IPaq and HTC... among others.

Frankly, no one needs another iDongle, iCable, or iKey and to run an
unnecessary BT radio simultaneously, which compromises battery life.

BTW, the onboard A-GPS on the iPaq (which syncs to Google Maps) will put
you right in the pickle barrel (if that's where you are, or want to be).

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 08:23 PM
Todd Allcock
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

At 21 Mar 2008 15:00:55 -0400 News wrote:

> > I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Even today, precious few phones

include a "real" GPS
>
>
> IPaq and HTC... among others.



The iPaqs and HTCs came to mind for me as well... ...then I couldn't
think of any others! ;-)


> Frankly, no one needs another iDongle, iCable, or iKey and to run an

unnecessary BT radio simultaneously, which compromises battery life.


I'm not sure BT strains the battery much more than an onboard GPS.

> BTW, the onboard A-GPS on the iPaq (which syncs to Google Maps) will put

you right in the pickle barrel (if that's where you are, or want to be).

I certainty agree onboard is preferable to external BT, but it's an
acceptable compromise, particular for the several million iPhones already
sold. While I'd like to have internal GPS on my next phone (I use an
external GPS with my HTC Wizard) I wouldn't let the GPS be the deciding
factor in a phone purchase (but if it's there, great.)

I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the hardware-
every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my
Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen (HP's
recent models, Treos)

I've been leaning towards the Kaiser/Tilt (if T-Mobile gets around to
releasing it) as my next phone, since HP seems to have cancelled the 914,
but I may hold out for the Sony X1 later in the year.




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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2008, 09:46 PM
SMS
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Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Todd Allcock wrote:

> I certainty agree onboard is preferable to external BT, but it's an
> acceptable compromise, particular for the several million iPhones already
> sold. While I'd like to have internal GPS on my next phone (I use an
> external GPS with my HTC Wizard) I wouldn't let the GPS be the deciding
> factor in a phone purchase (but if it's there, great.)


One big advantage I've found with an external GPS module is that while
driving you can have the antenna on the dash, with the rest of the unit
in a better location (closer to where a built in GPS would be).

Even a mini-USB jack where you plugged in an external GPS module would
be fine, but that's very un-Apple.

In some ways it's nice for it to be built in or at least powered by the
device. I have an old PDA with a CompactFlash GPS unit. Kind of nice to
not have to carry around the GPS part all the time.

I saw the unlocked HTC Tilt with the integrated GPS at Costco, and it
weighs 50% more than the iPhone and is about 1.8x as thick. It's good a
lot more functionality, and they didn't leave out crucial features like
the iPhone did, but geez I can't imagine carrying that around all the
time and using it as a phone.

> I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the hardware-
> every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my
> Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen (HP's
> recent models, Treos)


Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an
electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the
iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing
was just painfully slow.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:41 AM
Larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:47e3d8ff$0$36329
$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:

> For
> handheld use the module can be coupled mechanically to the iPhone


Naw...it's better in my jean's watchpocket. That's where the Nokia GPS
goes for walking around navigation....(c;


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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:42 AM
Todd Allcock
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)


"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:47e42c01$0$36403$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...

> One big advantage I've found with an external GPS module is that while
> driving you can have the antenna on the dash, with the rest of the unit in
> a better location (closer to where a built in GPS would be).


Yeah, but's that's less of an issue these days. I'm amazed at the reception
abilities of modern day GPS receivers vs. older ones. My first GPS (a
Pharos SiRF II CF card for an PocketPC) needed to be on the dash under the
windshield. My latest (a BT GPS with a Nemerix chipset) works if I stuff it
in the center console or even my pants pocket.


> Even a mini-USB jack where you plugged in an external GPS module would be
> fine, but that's very un-Apple.


It's pretty "un-high tech" looking these days.


> In some ways it's nice for it to be built in or at least powered by the
> device. I have an old PDA with a CompactFlash GPS unit. Kind of nice to
> not have to carry around the GPS part all the time.


Yeah, but I chose my GPS (a Semsons' iBlue) to fill three criteria: small,
(for it's day- the new "keychain" models are really small!) long battery
life (it's rated for up to 30 hours use on a charge, but it's more like 20)
and a mini-USB charge port so my HTC Wizard phone can share the same
charger. (I hate carrying a bunch of different chargers around. Between my
wife and I we have three mini-USB phones and two mini-USB GPS units.
Whatever car we're in, we always have the right DC charger for all of our
crap.)


> I saw the unlocked HTC Tilt with the integrated GPS at Costco, and it
> weighs 50% more than the iPhone and is about 1.8x as thick. It's good a
> lot more functionality, and they didn't leave out crucial features like
> the iPhone did, but geez I can't imagine carrying that around all the time
> and using it as a phone.


Depends on your POV, I guess- prior to using a "converged" device, I always
carried my Pocket PC with me (it was larger than the Tilt) and a separate
phone. Even a relatively large phone like the Tilt beats carrying two
separate devices, and if you generally use a BT headset (my Motorola has a
mini-USB charge port! and voice dial, you rarely actually use the phone
as a phone, unless you need to enter DTMF tones.

>> I love the WinMo OS, but I've never been overly impressed by the
>> hardware-
>> every phone has some achille's heel, whether it's a slow processor (my
>> Wizard), slow video (Tilt), or stupid quasi-compatible square screen
>> (HP's
>> recent models, Treos)

>
> Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an
> electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the
> iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing was
> just painfully slow.


I'm a T-Mobile customer. What's 3G?

Kidding aside, EDGE was never really a problem for many of us until phones
with better browsers (like the iPhone) developed. When mobile I tend to
stick to PDA/mobile formatted sites if possible, or use Google's XHTML
converter, which makes EDGE far less painful. The "problem" with the
iPhone, is that the "real web" experience demands "real web" speeds. I
understand Apple eschewing 3G, but I'm surprised they didn't set up their
own proxy servers for the iPhone (like Opera did for Opera Mini), or con
AT&T into doing it, so that could speedup the page load process for iPhones
on EDGE. There's a great browser for Pocket PCs/WinMo phones called
Thunderhawk, that really isn't a "browser" per se. It works through a
dedicated proxy (like Opera Mini), and basically just sends graphic images
of webpages to the phone so the actual page rendering is done on their
servers, not your (relatively) underpowered, low bandwidth phone. When I
tried Thunderhawk, it rendered faster on GPRS (30kbps) than any other Winmo
browser did on EDGE, since you were really just uploading screen taps and
downloading 320x240 images over the network.

The only downside to Thunderhawk, is that it's a service rather than a
product- you pay for usage of the server ($5/month or $50/year) rather than
a one time fee for the software. I used a beta for a few months when I had
a separate PPC and GPRS phone, but ditched it when I bought an EDGE WinMo
phone, since EDGE was "good enough" for my uses, and Thunderhawk's service
couldn't render one particular work website (after they upgraded it to the
over-Java-scripted mess it is today!) that I have to access. (Opera Mini can
partially render it, but generally I just remote into my home PC when I have
to access it on the road from my phone.)






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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Tom Payne
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an
> electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the
> iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing
> was just painfully slow.


There are so many WiFi networks to choose from that very few iPhone
users use the EDGE network ay all. At any given time I have at least 5
open networks to choose from. And of course that makes the 3G look like
dial-up.

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-22-2008, 04:57 PM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)


"Tom Payne" <tp@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:tp-80221C.09402522032008@news.giganews.com...

> There are so many WiFi networks to choose from that very few iPhone
> users use the EDGE network ay all.


And your source for that? I've used WiFi Pocket PCs and more recently a
WinMo phone with WiFi for many years, and I find it necessary to use a
cellular data plan. WiFi isn't nearly as ubiquitous as you pretend. While
the number of WiFi APs have steadily risen over the last few years, most
consumers have wised up and locked them down. When I first used my PPC
wirelessly, I'd estimate only 1/3 or less were secure. Now 8 or 9 out of 10
are.

> At any given time I have at least 5 open networks to choose from.


You don't get around very much then. If you lived in a modern city, rather
than Minneapolis, you wouldn't find it so easy, perhaps.

> And of course that makes the 3G look like dial-up.


How would you know? In prior posts you've told us you've never owned a cell
phone prior to the iPhone, so you'd have no first hand knowledge of 3G
access. WiFi is a transmission medium- not an internet provider. Those "5
open APs" you can choose from could just as easily be connected to a budget
256k DSL line than as a 12Mb cable connection. You just don't know. I've
used hotel WiFi systems that were as slow as molasses when 30 hotel guests
are all sharing an overloaded 1.5Mb Hughes satellite internet connection!

It's a moot point anyway- all of your anti-3G sentiment will disappear and
be forgotten when the 3G iPhone is released later this year, then you'll be
telling all of us how wonderful 3G is.






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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2008, 12:47 AM
Charles
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

In article <iUaFj.50$y%.38@fe107.usenetserver.com>, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

> While the number of WiFi APs have steadily risen over the last few
> years, most consumers have wised up and locked them down. When I
> first used my PPC wirelessly, I'd estimate only 1/3 or less were
> secure. Now 8 or 9 out of 10 are.


I have found the same thing. Particularly in the last year. Most WiFi
is now locked. Right after reading your post I looked at the networks
in my Condo. There were 19 networks. Only one was open.

--
Charles

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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-23-2008, 12:48 AM
SMS
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: new logging feature found (iPhone)

Tom Payne wrote:
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well the iPhone hardware isn't perfect either. I was listening to an
>> electronics guru on a radio talk show this morning fawning over the
>> iPhone, until he got to the lack of 3G and admitted that web browsing
>> was just painfully slow.

>
> There are so many WiFi networks to choose from that very few iPhone
> users use the EDGE network ay all. At any given time I have at least 5
> open networks to choose from. And of course that makes the 3G look like
> dial-up.


You can't use the WiFi networks while moving, and free WiFi networks are
definitely not the norm everywhere in the world or even everywhere in
the U.S..

Unless Apple quickly comes out with the 3G model, they will continue to
miss their sales goals without further drastic price cuts. Actually what
the guy on KGO really wanted was an EVDO iPhone that worked on Sprint
and Verizon, but that's far in the future.

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