Re: Verizon wants Wi-Fi-only iPad On Their Creaky 3G Network

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, nospam posted:
>> In the AT&T/Apple view, you have to throw out all your devices and buy new
>> ones every time the WAN radio is upgraded.
> *every* phone and wireless device has that limitation.

Phones, yes.

Wireless devices, no.

Have you seen a MyFi? It's about the size of a credit card, and about 1/4
inch thick. Both VZW and SPRINT have it.

Using the MyFi, any Wi-Fi device is automatically able to use a WAN
network as an EV-DO device. When VZW deploys LTE, you just get a new one
and all your other mobile devices are automatically upgraded to be LTE
devices. And you can use it with multiple devices at the same time.

It's crazy to have get a separate SIM card (and account!) for each and
every gizmo you possess.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1003101823270.27507@hsinghsing.pa nda.com>,
Mark Crispin <mrc@panda.com> wrote:

> >> In the AT&T/Apple view, you have to throw out all your devices and buy new
> >> ones every time the WAN radio is upgraded.
> > *every* phone and wireless device has that limitation.
>
> Phones, yes.
>
> Wireless devices, no.
>
> Have you seen a MyFi? It's about the size of a credit card, and about 1/4
> inch thick. Both VZW and SPRINT have it.

yes i have.

> Using the MyFi, any Wi-Fi device is automatically able to use a WAN
> network as an EV-DO device. When VZW deploys LTE, you just get a new one
> and all your other mobile devices are automatically upgraded to be LTE
> devices.

in other words, you have to replace it. the only advantage is that
other *wifi* devices can remain the same.

> And you can use it with multiple devices at the same time.

true, but you have to carry an extra device.

> It's crazy to have get a separate SIM card (and account!) for each and
> every gizmo you possess.

that depends whether the hassle of swapping sims and the inability to
use more than one device at a time is worth the savings.

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, nospam posted:
>>> In the AT&T/Apple view, you have to throw out all your devices and
>>> buy new
>>> ones every time the WAN radio is upgraded.
>> *every* phone and wireless device has that limitation.
>
> Phones, yes.
>
> Wireless devices, no.
>
> Have you seen a MyFi? It's about the size of a credit card, and about
> 1/4 inch thick. Both VZW and SPRINT have it.
>
> Using the MyFi, any Wi-Fi device is automatically able to use a WAN
> network as an EV-DO device. When VZW deploys LTE, you just get a new
> one and all your other mobile devices are automatically upgraded to be
> LTE devices. And you can use it with multiple devices at the same time.
>
> It's crazy to have get a separate SIM card (and account!) for each and
> every gizmo you possess.
>

Do you REALLY have to get a separate SIM card for each and every. . . ?

My VZW phone does not use or need a SIM card so I have no personal
experience. My understanding is that the SIM card makes whatever device
you install it in *your* phone with your phone number, carrier, etc, for
as long as it's installed. If you want to use two devices
simultaneously you need two SIM cards and if you want to use three
devices simulutaneously. . . .

Richard B. Gilbert wrote:

> My VZW phone does not use or need a SIM card so I have no personal
> experience. My understanding is that the SIM card makes whatever device
> you install it in *your* phone with your phone number, carrier, etc, for
> as long as it's installed. If you want to use two devices
> simultaneously you need two SIM cards and if you want to use three
> devices simulutaneously. . . .

You can't use an iPhone SIM in an iPad. The iPhone SIM is a full size
SIM, the iPad uses a MicroSIM. Now you could always have your iPhone SIM
cloned onto a MicroSIM, but I'm sure AT&T has a way of knowing what the
SIM is installed into.

With Verizon, you can go online and move your service to a different
device. But Verizon has a lot of limitations too. They won't allow you
to activate a smart phone, no matter where you got it, on a plan that
doesn't support data.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010, nospam posted:
>> It's crazy to have get a separate SIM card (and account!) for each and
>> every gizmo you possess.
> that depends whether the hassle of swapping sims and the inability to
> use more than one device at a time is worth the savings.

If you use a MyFi class device, then you can use multiple devices at a
time sharing the same radio.

iPhone fanboys wouldn't know about this, because it's called "tethering"
and their great leader Steve Jobs says they can't tether.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

In article <alpine.OSX.2.00.1003110902580.27507@hsinghsing.pa nda.com>,
Mark Crispin <mrc@panda.com> wrote:

> iPhone fanboys wouldn't know about this, because it's called "tethering"
> and their great leader Steve Jobs says they can't tether.

wrong. he said the iphone *does* tether, and it does tether.

the problem is at&t, who promised last year that tethering was 'coming
soon.' nearly a year later and nothing. not a word. they're a bunch of
inept incompetent idiots.

On 2010-03-11, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> With Verizon, you can go online and move your service to a different
> device. But Verizon has a lot of limitations too. They won't allow you
> to activate a smart phone, no matter where you got it, on a plan that
> doesn't support data.

Neither will copycat AT&T any more. I used to be able to select and
remove the data plan from the line my wife's iPhone is on from the
web interface (I did this as recently as December or January), now I
need to call every time I want to do this and change the IMEI to/from
the iPhone before they'll let me add/delete the plan.

AT&T's terms and conditions have now acquired this paragraph:

Data Plans: An eligible data plan is required for certain devices,
including iPhones and other designated smartphones. Eligible data plans
cover data usage in the U.S. and do not cover international data usage
and charges. If it is determined that you are using an iPhone or other
designated smartphone without an eligible data plan, AT&T reserves the
right to add an eligible data plan to your account and bill you the
appropriate monthly fee.

Oh, well.

Dennis Ferguson

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> On 2010-03-11, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> With Verizon, you can go online and move your service to a different
>> device. But Verizon has a lot of limitations too. They won't allow you
>> to activate a smart phone, no matter where you got it, on a plan that
>> doesn't support data.
>
> Neither will copycat AT&T any more. I used to be able to select and
> remove the data plan from the line my wife's iPhone is on from the
> web interface (I did this as recently as December or January), now I
> need to call every time I want to do this and change the IMEI to/from
> the iPhone before they'll let me add/delete the plan.
>
> AT&T's terms and conditions have now acquired this paragraph:
>
> Data Plans: An eligible data plan is required for certain devices,
> including iPhones and other designated smartphones. Eligible data plans
> cover data usage in the U.S. and do not cover international data usage
> and charges. If it is determined that you are using an iPhone or other
> designated smartphone without an eligible data plan, AT&T reserves the
> right to add an eligible data plan to your account and bill you the
> appropriate monthly fee.
>
> Oh, well.
>
> Dennis Ferguson

I see that Net10 now offers unlimited voice/text/data for $50/month. If
someone can figure out how to tether their phones, that would be ideal.

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in news:4b99be29$0$1588
$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net:

> I see that Net10 now offers unlimited voice/text/data for $50/month.
If
> someone can figure out how to tether their phones, that would be
ideal.
>
>

From its GSM coverage map, which doesn't say anything about 2G or 3G,
and comparing it with ATT's total coverage map, I'd say it's on ATT as
T-Mobile's map isn't anywhere close to this.

That said, their "unlimited data" would be crawling along like a snail,
with no streaming video and only low res streaming audio off the ATT
blue map, at best, unless it's throttled.

Then there are troubling LIMITS here:
http://net10.com/content/terms_conditions.jsp

The terms say:
"To enroll in the NET10 Unlimited Plan you must purchase a NET10
Unlimited phone."
Wanna bet that doesn't tether?

"12. NET10 UNLIMITED DATA SERVICES
With certain NET10 Unlimited phone models, you can access Data Services
through WAP. Data Services are additional services offered by NET10
Unlimited. Access to the Mobile Web is included in your plan. You will,
however, incur additional charges for downloads or purchases of Data
Services."

$50/month for WAP?! Yecch!

How can the SELL data (downloads) to someone paying for UNLIMITED
SERVICE, already?! Damned sellphone companies....

"Access/Purchase Data Services. In order to purchase and download NET10
Data Services, your NET10 Unlimited phone must have active service. You
will not incur Access Charges under the NET10 Unlimited plan, but you
will be charged a Content Charge or Subscription Charge each time you
select and purchase content to download or if you subscribe to any Data
Services. The Content Charges and Subscription Charges vary depending on
the type of content and/or subscription and these must be paid for
separately under the terms and conditions of the vendor from whom you
are purchasing the content. You may purchase and add a NET10 Unlimited
Minute Bundle to your account in order to purchase content, downloads,
ringtones or other services from NET10. You may NOT complete these
purchases using the balance in your NET10 Unlimited account without
adding a NET10 Unlimited Minute Bundle."

$50 is WAP ONLY on their hobbled up phones. WHAT A DEAL!

Being forced to use a "Net10 Unlimited Phone" pretty much decapitates
any dreams of tethering the laptop for $50/month of unlimited service.
Not in our lifetimes.



--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

Larry

At 11 Mar 2010 09:02:24 -0800 SMS wrote:

> You can't use an iPhone SIM in an iPad. The iPhone SIM is a full size
> SIM,

Technically it's a "mini-SIM"- full-size SIMs are smartcard-sized. That
credit card-sized "holder" we break our SIMs out of is the "full-sized"
SIM, apparently used back when phones were much larger. (Back in
those days I was using SIM-less TDMA phones!)

> the iPad uses a MicroSIM. Now you could always have your iPhone
> SIM cloned onto a MicroSIM,...

Theoretically you wouldn't even need to do that- you could just cut the
excess plastic off the iPhone SIM to make it fit the iPad- like the
standard to mini "punch out" SIM card, micros are just physically smaller
SIMs with the same pinout and electrical specifications (making their use
in the comparitively giant iPad that much more ludicrous!), but less
plastic.

An intrepid user, using the iPad SIM as a template, could cut his iPhone
SIM (or any AT&T SIM) down to size, keeping the cut-off portion as an
"adapter" which, with the help of some cellophane tape, could allow its
reinsertion into the iPhone.


> but I'm sure AT&T has a way of knowing what
> the SIM is installed into.


Probably, but then again, if AT&T feels secure that using microSIMs will
prevent moving "normal" SIMs into iPads, they might not have IMEI-based
"traps" set up to prevent this systemically, at least not until the word
gets around, and/or abuses occur. (Besides, tethering an iPad via WiFi
to a jailbroken iPhone or other AT&T phone acting as a MyFi is much less
work than screwing with SIM swapping and butchering anyway!)


> With Verizon, you can go online and move your service to a different
> device. But Verizon has a lot of limitations too. They won't allow you
> to activate a smart phone, no matter where you got it, on a plan that
> doesn't support data.


Does this apply to older smartphones like your SMT5800s as well, or do
they get a pass for being available prior to the "all smartphones get
data" policy?