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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 09:41 PM
4phun
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Posts: n/a
Default Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
locations around the world.

The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.

I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.

Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 09:53 PM
Jer
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

4phun wrote:
> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
> locations around the world.
>
> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>
> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>
> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.
>



You'll have to have a Bat Belt to lug everything around. OTOH, since
that thing sucks so much, maybe apple can figure a way for it to suck
power from thin air.

--
jer
email reply - I am not a 'ten'

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 10:12 PM
Todd Allcock
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

At 21 Apr 2008 14:41:04 -0700 4phun wrote:
> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
> locations around the world.
>
> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>
> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>
> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.


Ugh. I feel like we're playing role reversal because _I'm_ defending the
iPhone!

It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out, but
also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device. Yes, I know the
iPhone v1 has a good battery life for a smartphone, but frankly a fully-
featured phone only really needs to make it through ONE DAY of use. With
push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi, my
WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with on-screen pop-
ups!) after 14-16 hours.

And that's fine- I charge it overnight and it's good to go the next day.
Sure I wish it only needed to be charged once a week like my old Nokia
candy-bar with B&W display and no GPRS, but if you want high-powered
features, the phone is going to swallow some battery power.

If it can run from 6AM to 10PM on a single charge, with a few hours of iPod
and browsing use that'll be good enough. Apple might design a slick phone
with a great UI, but they're bound by the same laws of physics as every
other manufacturer- it's unrealistic to expect Apple to somehow eek 3 times
the battery life out of their phone than their competitors can!

For those who need ubiquitous high-speed data, it's worth the tradeoff.
For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn 3G off...




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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2008, 10:48 PM
Charles
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

In article
<4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote:

> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.


And where did you inhale this rumor? You usually attach a link to your
so called "news". This time no link. Are you sure you did not drop some
LSD? What high school do you attend?

--
Charles

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 12:09 AM
The Bob
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> amazed us all with the
following in news:fuj3m2$ovh$1@aioe.org:

> At 21 Apr 2008 14:41:04 -0700 4phun wrote:
>> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
>> locations around the world.
>>
>> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
>> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone.
>> The only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
>> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>>
>> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>>
>> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
>> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.

>
> Ugh. I feel like we're playing role reversal because _I'm_ defending
> the iPhone!
>
> It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out,
> but also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device. Yes, I
> know the iPhone v1 has a good battery life for a smartphone, but
> frankly a fully- featured phone only really needs to make it through
> ONE DAY of use. With push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an
> hour to two of WiFi, my WinMo phone will start begging for a charge
> (literally, with on-screen pop- ups!) after 14-16 hours.
>
> And that's fine- I charge it overnight and it's good to go the next
> day. Sure I wish it only needed to be charged once a week like my old
> Nokia candy-bar with B&W display and no GPRS, but if you want
> high-powered features, the phone is going to swallow some battery
> power.
>
> If it can run from 6AM to 10PM on a single charge, with a few hours of
> iPod and browsing use that'll be good enough. Apple might design a
> slick phone with a great UI, but they're bound by the same laws of
> physics as every other manufacturer- it's unrealistic to expect Apple
> to somehow eek 3 times the battery life out of their phone than their
> competitors can!
>
> For those who need ubiquitous high-speed data, it's worth the
> tradeoff. For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn
> 3G off...
>
>
>


One thing to keep in mind. While your point about making it through a day
is valid, another piece of the equation comes into play.With most of the
smartphone market, you would be fine recharging every night, because once
the battery started losing its mojo, you just go out an buy another one and
pop it in. With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are
recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement every
9-10 months.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 12:36 AM
Kevin Weaver
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

"The Bob" <nospam@bob.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A87B8BEC7565bob@216.196.97.136...
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> amazed us all with the
> following in news:fuj3m2$ovh$1@aioe.org:
>
>> At 21 Apr 2008 14:41:04 -0700 4phun wrote:
>>> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
>>> locations around the world.
>>>
>>> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
>>> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone.
>>> The only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
>>> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>>>
>>> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>>>
>>> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
>>> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.

>>
>> Ugh. I feel like we're playing role reversal because _I'm_ defending
>> the iPhone!
>>
>> It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out,
>> but also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device. Yes, I
>> know the iPhone v1 has a good battery life for a smartphone, but
>> frankly a fully- featured phone only really needs to make it through
>> ONE DAY of use. With push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an
>> hour to two of WiFi, my WinMo phone will start begging for a charge
>> (literally, with on-screen pop- ups!) after 14-16 hours.
>>
>> And that's fine- I charge it overnight and it's good to go the next
>> day. Sure I wish it only needed to be charged once a week like my old
>> Nokia candy-bar with B&W display and no GPRS, but if you want
>> high-powered features, the phone is going to swallow some battery
>> power.
>>
>> If it can run from 6AM to 10PM on a single charge, with a few hours of
>> iPod and browsing use that'll be good enough. Apple might design a
>> slick phone with a great UI, but they're bound by the same laws of
>> physics as every other manufacturer- it's unrealistic to expect Apple
>> to somehow eek 3 times the battery life out of their phone than their
>> competitors can!
>>
>> For those who need ubiquitous high-speed data, it's worth the
>> tradeoff. For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn
>> 3G off...
>>
>>
>>

>
> One thing to keep in mind. While your point about making it through a day
> is valid, another piece of the equation comes into play.With most of the
> smartphone market, you would be fine recharging every night, because once
> the battery started losing its mojo, you just go out an buy another one
> and
> pop it in. With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are
> recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement every
> 9-10 months.



Just make sure you get it replaced within the 1yr coverage.
After that it's approx 90.00 The apple website says it's 79.00 to replace it
but add approx 10.00 for shipping and insurance. Way to much for a 15.00
battery IMO...


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 12:48 AM
Anybody
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

In article
<4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote:

> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
> locations around the world.
>
> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>
> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>
> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.


The battery was one of the reasons Apple didn't release a 3G phone in
the first place, so they've been working on this for over a year
already. Pre-release models rarely stack up to the proper version -
they're *PRE*-release for a reason: so that people can test and give
feedback

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 12:50 AM
News
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it



Anybody wrote:
> In article
> <4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
>>locations around the world.
>>
>>The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
>>time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
>>only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
>>charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>>
>>I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>>
>>Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
>>not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.

>
>
> The battery was one of the reasons Apple didn't release a 3G phone in
> the first place, so they've been working on this for over a year
> already. Pre-release models rarely stack up to the proper version -
> they're *PRE*-release for a reason: so that people can test and give
> feedback



Just what AAPL'd want, mucho "poor battery life" feedback in advance!

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 01:07 AM
Mark Crispin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008, Todd Allcock posted:
> It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out, but
> also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device.


You mean...like actually having a *removable* battery?

> With
> push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi, my
> WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with on-screen pop-
> ups!) after 14-16 hours.


The backlight is a huge power drain on many WM phones. In most firmware,
the default backlight level while on battery power is set way too high.
Try cranking it down to the minimum (one notch above backlight completely
off).

The published specifications for a typical WM phone (SoftBank X01HT a.k.a.
HTC Hermes) shows that using 3G reduces talk time by about 20% (4 hours
instead of 5 hours), but that standby time for 3G is 20% better (250 hours
vs. 200 hours).

Having compared battery life in both 3G and GSM more on this particular
model, I think that 20% is about right. I normally use regular
(non-smart) 3G mobile phones (both EV-DO and W-CDMA/UMTS), and the battery
consumption after a day of use is negligible.

The myth of "3G consuming too much battery" is more based upon the short
battery life of WM smartphones (and the backlight has a *lot* to do with
that!) than reality.

FWIW, I never cared for smart phones; they compromise the fundamental task
of being a phone too much in order to provide PDA capabilities. Before
you can place a call, iPhone requires three physical operations: press the
center button, slide to unlock, press the phone icon. WM is worse. Most
phones are ready in one physical operation: open flip/slider.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:13 AM
Todd Allcock
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

At 21 Apr 2008 19:09:42 -0500 The Bob wrote:

> One thing to keep in mind. While your point about making it through a

day
> is valid, another piece of the equation comes into play.With most of the
> smartphone market, you would be fine recharging every night, because once
> the battery started losing its mojo, you just go out an buy another one

and
> pop it in. With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are
> recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement every
> 9-10 months.



Good point- despite the "500+" recharge cycles a typical Li-Ion is
supposedly capable of, I find them to be noticeably weaker after a year of
daily charging. My 26-month old HTC Wizard just got it's 3rd battery
recently. While the batteries I'm no loger using weren't totally spent,
they fell below the "make it through a 16-hour day" threshold I require to
consider them useable.





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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:45 AM
Larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-
290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
> locations around the world.
>
> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>
> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>
> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.
>
>


Stalling tactic to clean out the warehouses and warehouses full of old,
unsold iPhones Apple "held back" to make 'em drool standing in line in
the cold, last winter.

---------------------------------------------------------------

I don't understand the battery problem. iPhone is nearly the same
chipset as the Nokia N800 ARM processor with its 4.5" very bright 800
pixel display. The only difference is the tiny, low-powered, PCS phone
chips the Linux tablet doesn't have, but the Linux tablet runs its
Bluetooth chipset to use the Sellphone link. With the display on full
power, I get 4.5 hours. If I reduce the display to 1/2 brightness, I
get nearly 7 continuous hours. If I'm listening to streaming audio over
the BT link through the Sellphone link and the display turns off because
I don't click anything, it'll run for days! The stock Nokia battery is
1300 mAh, same as they put in some Sellphones.

Does the iPhone get physically warm or hot to the touch after you make a
long call? I've never held one that long. Does it get hotter from the
display being on or from making long phone calls? That might identify
the power hogs inside the thin case.

I suppose you COULD wear one of these:
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=3186
and plug the car cord into it, which would recharge the 3G iPhone in
between embarrassing coffee shop encounters. Tell them you're a patriot
and want to display the flag. It says it will run 3.4 hours with a 50
watt load! iPhones, even 3G ones, should run all day and arrive home
fully recharged so you can talk while the fannypack recharges without
plugging the iPhone in...for the first couple of hours, at least.

Print up a phony PRESS PASS and make it into an ID badge. They'll think
you're a famous CNN videographer on assignment to cover the Starbuck's
new wifi company switch! People are stupid. They'll believe anything.

Hey, for no apparent reason, AAPL stock is rising back towards its
previous $200 price! That's the really important part to ol' Stevie J.
I'm sure this news will change that trend if it gets out.....

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:47 AM
Larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:fuj3m2$ovh$1@aioe.org:

> With
> push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi,
> my WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with
> on-screen pop- ups!) after 14-16 hours.
>


http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=3186

Maybe he's not the only one needing one of these!.....hee hee...(c;


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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:52 AM
Larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

The Bob <nospam@bob.com> wrote in
news:Xns9A87B8BEC7565bob@216.196.97.136:

> With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are
> recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement
> every 9-10 months.
>
>


This would be true if you constantly wait until it's DEAD before
recharging.

Most Li-Ion battery users don't understand how much damage they do to their
expensive battery packs by bragging to everyone it runs 4 days without
recharging when it sits all night next to their beds, RIGHT NEXT TO THE
CHARGER.

Li-Ion batteries are like lead-acid batteries in one respect....they are
FLOAT batteries. They LOVE to be PARTIALLY discharged, then recharged
IMMEDIATELY. I have Li-Ion batteries running old Palm Pilots that are
nearly 10 years old and STILL will run a Palm Pilot for a LONG time because
I always dropped it into the cradle every time I sat down at my desk to
recharge, even though it would run for weeks without it. I found my old
Palm clone and its charger the other day. IT still runs, too.

What destroys a Sellphone battery in 10 months is DEEP CYCLING it. The
chip in the battery only allows you to deep cycle it to about 50% of its
real capability because deep cycling li-ion simply destroys them. Deep
cycle it ONCE every 3-4 months to RESET the drifting cycle point on its
charge timer IC that's in every Li-Ion battery, then IMMEDIATELY give it a
FULL recharge. All other times, recharge it as quickly and as often as you
can. The old Ni-Cd memory legacy, where you HAD to deep cycle Ni-Cd to
keep them working, is still on many people's minds as true for Li-Ions and
that's SIMPLY WRONG!

EVERY chance you get to plug in your Li-Ion powered devices, DO SO! Damned
batteries, especially in iPhones you have to pay to have replaced, are
EXPENSIVE!


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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:11 AM
The Bob
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Larry <noone@home.com> amazed us all with the following in
news:Xns9A87EAEF57B40noonehomecom@208.49.80.253:

> The Bob <nospam@bob.com> wrote in
> news:Xns9A87B8BEC7565bob@216.196.97.136:
>
>> With the iPhone it won't be that easy, and if you are
>> recharging it every nigh you'll be looking at a battery replacement
>> every 9-10 months.
>>
>>

>
> This would be true if you constantly wait until it's DEAD before
> recharging.
>
> Most Li-Ion battery users don't understand how much damage they do to
> their expensive battery packs by bragging to everyone it runs 4 days
> without recharging when it sits all night next to their beds, RIGHT
> NEXT TO THE CHARGER.
>
> Li-Ion batteries are like lead-acid batteries in one respect....they
> are FLOAT batteries. They LOVE to be PARTIALLY discharged, then
> recharged IMMEDIATELY. I have Li-Ion batteries running old Palm
> Pilots that are nearly 10 years old and STILL will run a Palm Pilot
> for a LONG time because I always dropped it into the cradle every time
> I sat down at my desk to recharge, even though it would run for weeks
> without it. I found my old Palm clone and its charger the other day.
> IT still runs, too.
>
> What destroys a Sellphone battery in 10 months is DEEP CYCLING it.
> The chip in the battery only allows you to deep cycle it to about 50%
> of its real capability because deep cycling li-ion simply destroys
> them. Deep cycle it ONCE every 3-4 months to RESET the drifting cycle
> point on its charge timer IC that's in every Li-Ion battery, then
> IMMEDIATELY give it a FULL recharge. All other times, recharge it as
> quickly and as often as you can. The old Ni-Cd memory legacy, where
> you HAD to deep cycle Ni-Cd to keep them working, is still on many
> people's minds as true for Li-Ions and that's SIMPLY WRONG!
>
> EVERY chance you get to plug in your Li-Ion powered devices, DO SO!
> Damned batteries, especially in iPhones you have to pay to have
> replaced, are EXPENSIVE!
>
>



Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. Oh, wait
a minute- yes we would. It has been discussed ad nauseum in these groups.

And if you read the post I responded to, it was deep cycling that was being
discussed.

Why don't you go count the kernels on an ear of corn and report back the
outrageous price we pay for that ear.

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:21 AM
Larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:fuji0l$dt4$1@aioe.org:

> Good point- despite the "500+" recharge cycles a typical Li-Ion is
> supposedly capable of, I find them to be noticeably weaker after a
> year of daily charging. My 26-month old HTC Wizard just got it's 3rd
> battery recently. While the batteries I'm no loger using weren't
> totally spent, they fell below the "make it through a 16-hour day"
> threshold I require to consider them useable.
>


Here's yet ANOTHER legacy from the old Ni-Cd days. Li-Ion batteries
only discharged half way, then immediately recharged ASAP, will cycle
nearly indefinately, far longer than the life of the devices they are
in! There is no old Ni-Cd 500 recharge cycles on Li-Ion batteries. How
long they run is totally dependent upon how they are treated by the
users and how much load heating the engineers put upon them in their
device design.

Buy two identical devices powered by the same size Li-Ion batteries.
Run one of them like a Sellphone braggart, running it for days until
it's dead, then recharging it "when I get around to it".
Run the other one by plugging it into its charger every chance you get,
never leaving it in a discharged state for any length of time.

Test it for yourselves. Li-Ion batteries are FLOAT batteries that LOVE
to be immediately recharged from ANY state of discharge.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Your daily charging is very admirable. But, there's another dark side
to Li-Ion battery maintenance....

Inside every Li-Ion is a special IC timer that prevents you from really
killing the battery pack below about 50% of its REAL capacity because
deep cycling them simply destroys them. A 1000 mAh battery pack has a
2000 mAh set of cells in it. During the discharge cycle, the timer
measures the load current and acts as an amp-hour meter like the one on
the side of your house that runs both up and down....down during use, up
during recharge. UNfortunately, the battery pack ISN'T following the
IC's charge state curve, exactly.

Over time, several months of constant cycling, the IC's idea of what's
charged and discharged gets out of sync with battery reality. Lucky for
the battery it moves DOWN the real curve, not up into the overcharge
range. Li-Ion batteries must NEVER be overcharged or they EXPLODE
FORCEFULLY. (See Dell's exploding laptops for demo) This IC prevents
that. So, your device's charge point goes down, when the IC cuts off
the charging prematurely from reality....and it's discharged point goes
up, with the IC cutting off the device to save the battery way earlier
than necessary. You observe, correctly, the battery doesn't run as long
as it used to.

The solution is to cycle it hard just ONCE to reset the IC, which has an
algorithm built into it just for this purpose. About every 3-4 months,
run the device until the IC absolutely refuses to run any more. Even
cycling it AFTER the IC cuts it off the first few times is even better.
After the IC shuts it down, wait 10 minutes and power the device back up
until the IC shuts it down again, a further discharge. DO NOT LEAVE IT
DISCHARGED LIKE THIS FOR MORE THAN 10 MINUTES as it damages the
battery's crazy chemistry. When the IC refuses to let the device come
on any more, even for a minute, IMMEDIATELY plug the device into its
charger and LEAVE IT PLUGGED IN OVERNIGHT to get a full recharge. Test
the battery run time and you'll find it has been restored, saving you
$20 from the net or $90 at your Sellphone company for exactly the same
battery.

Li-Ions properly treated and RECHARGED IMMEDIATELY as soon as you can
recharge it, last for years!

DON'T DO THE IC RESET ABOVE ANY MORE THAN IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY TO
RESTORE RUNTIME. The less you do it, the longer the battery will last.
It costs you every time you do the reset, so don't make it a regular
habit until it really needs it!

Oh, and NEVER STORE A PREVIOUSLY CHARGED LI-ION BATTERY! If you have
spare batteries, SWAP THEM WITH THE DEVICE OFTEN! They have a very high
self-discharge rate and will simply destroy themselves sitting in your
drawer! I swap out the batteries at least once a week. DO NOT COME
HOME, SWAP OUT THE CURRENT BATTERY FOR THE OTHER BATTERY....BEFORE YOU
FULLY RECHARGE THE CURRENT BATTERY, leaving it in a stored DISCHARGED
state! No, no, no....do the swapout ONLY after the battery that's
currently being run is FULLY RECHARGED, FIRST, then pull it and put in
the battery out of the drawer, FULLY RECHARGING IT NEXT before you use
it. You can never recharge them TOO OFTEN.


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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:28 AM
Kevin Weaver
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A87E8CC5C483noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-
> 290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>
>> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
>> locations around the world.
>>
>> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
>> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
>> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
>> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>>
>> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>>
>> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
>> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.
>>
>>

>
> Stalling tactic to clean out the warehouses and warehouses full of old,
> unsold iPhones Apple "held back" to make 'em drool standing in line in
> the cold, last winter.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't understand the battery problem. iPhone is nearly the same
> chipset as the Nokia N800 ARM processor with its 4.5" very bright 800
> pixel display. The only difference is the tiny, low-powered, PCS phone
> chips the Linux tablet doesn't have, but the Linux tablet runs its
> Bluetooth chipset to use the Sellphone link. With the display on full
> power, I get 4.5 hours. If I reduce the display to 1/2 brightness, I
> get nearly 7 continuous hours. If I'm listening to streaming audio over
> the BT link through the Sellphone link and the display turns off because
> I don't click anything, it'll run for days! The stock Nokia battery is
> 1300 mAh, same as they put in some Sellphones.
>
> Does the iPhone get physically warm or hot to the touch after you make a
> long call? I've never held one that long. Does it get hotter from the
> display being on or from making long phone calls? That might identify
> the power hogs inside the thin case.
>
> I suppose you COULD wear one of these:
> http://www.batteryspace.com/index.as...OD&ProdID=3186
> and plug the car cord into it, which would recharge the 3G iPhone in
> between embarrassing coffee shop encounters. Tell them you're a patriot
> and want to display the flag. It says it will run 3.4 hours with a 50
> watt load! iPhones, even 3G ones, should run all day and arrive home
> fully recharged so you can talk while the fannypack recharges without
> plugging the iPhone in...for the first couple of hours, at least.
>
> Print up a phony PRESS PASS and make it into an ID badge. They'll think
> you're a famous CNN videographer on assignment to cover the Starbuck's
> new wifi company switch! People are stupid. They'll believe anything.
>
> Hey, for no apparent reason, AAPL stock is rising back towards its
> previous $200 price! That's the really important part to ol' Stevie J.
> I'm sure this news will change that trend if it gets out.....



The iPhone battery is very small. The funny thing is, Apple has had over a
year to solve this battery problem with 3G. This is why they said from day
one that they used edge chipset as the battery drain was so much. My treo
755 uses 3G and battery life compared to the iPhone is night and day. My
friend tells me Bluetooth sucks his iPhone more then any thing else on his
Iphone.

I think your right about them wanting to clear out stock before they start
shipping the new one's. Once they start selling the new, who would buy the
old ones. I'm wanting to know what the new data rate is going to be for the
3G service. I'll say they will charge close to the other 3G packages, but
throw in the 200 SMS for free.


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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:30 AM
Larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Mark Crispin <MRC@Washington.EDU> wrote in
news:alpine.WNT.1.10.0804211708490.5204@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washignton.EDU:

> The backlight is a huge power drain on many WM phones. In most
> firmware, the default backlight level while on battery power is set
> way too high. Try cranking it down to the minimum (one notch above
> backlight completely off).
>


The backlight is a fairly high load, but is NOTHING like the load of the
TRANSMITTER!

Ever notice how hot a Sellphone gets when you are not standing in full view
of a tower that's some distance away, causing the cell to crank up your
controllable output power to maximum so it can hear you on the shared
channel with the other 24 users (CDMA) on that channel. LEVEL is very
important on shared channel schemes.

When you are far from the tower, yakking away an causing lots of
transmitter packets loaded with voice data, that transmitter gets HOT!
That heat is the inefficiency of the transmitter's output power IC, a large
power IC on the case as its heat sink....warming your ear.

To get 150mw out of the antenna jack, about 300mw has to be put in as DC
from the battery pack. I = P/E (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)
..3W/3.8V Li-Ion cell power = 78ma...just in the output stage! This is why
the TALK time is so much LESS than the standby time of a simply Sellphone.
Total transmitter power is probably 100ma....which eats the battery even
MORE than the backlight. Add them together and you have iPhone on a too-
small battery pack......to make it THINNER!

Everything has its price.....to be THIN.



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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:33 AM
Larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

"Kevin Weaver" <kevinkeithweaver@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:RXcPj.1346$ix6.1292@newssvr11.news.prodigy.ne t:

> The iPhone battery is very small. The funny thing is, Apple has had
> over a year to solve this battery problem with 3G. This is why they
> said from day one that they used edge chipset as the battery drain was
> so much. My treo 755 uses 3G and battery life compared to the iPhone
> is night and day. My friend tells me Bluetooth sucks his iPhone more
> then any thing else on his Iphone.
>


Too much "thinness" glitz. If they'd made it just a couple of mm thicker,
they'd have had room for a MUCH bigger battery to power it. The Air
suffers from the same thinness problem.


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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:34 AM
Larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

The Bob <nospam@bob.com> wrote in
news:Xns9A87D79F5F654bob@216.196.97.136:

> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you. Oh,
> wait a minute- yes we would. It has been discussed ad nauseum in
> these groups.
>
>


So, what, just to satisfy you we never bring up the same topic for the new
people who never read it before? Isn't that kind of....well.....stupid?


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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 04:17 AM
DTC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Larry wrote:
> Ever notice how hot a Sellphone gets when you are not standing in full view
> of a tower that's some distance away, causing the cell to crank up your
> controllable output power to maximum so it can hear you on the shared
> channel with the other 24 users (CDMA) on that channel. LEVEL is very
> important on shared channel schemes.


CDMA Course 101 -
1) CDMA does not have a fixed number of channels.
2) Output power level is determined by the noise floor.

GSM Course 101 -
1) 24 users per channel.
2) Power level is fixed fixed.

> (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)


Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy.....

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 07:05 AM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

At 22 Apr 2008 03:21:24 +0000 Larry wrote:

> Here's yet ANOTHER legacy from the old Ni-Cd days. Li-Ion batteries
> only discharged half way, then immediately recharged ASAP, will cycle
> nearly indefinately, far longer than the life of the devices they are
> in! There is no old Ni-Cd 500 recharge cycles on Li-Ion batteries. How
> long they run is totally dependent upon how they are treated by the
> users and how much load heating the engineers put upon them in their
> device design.



I was referring to deep discharges- I thought the limit was 300-500, but I
could easily be confusing the number with the recharge limit of older
battery types.


> Test it for yourselves. Li-Ion batteries are FLOAT batteries that LOVE
> to be immediately recharged from ANY state of discharge.



I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm simply
not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the sucker costs me
$15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my cellphone into a "corded
phone!" ;-)



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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 11:43 AM
SMS
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Todd Allcock wrote:

> I was referring to deep discharges- I thought the limit was 300-500, but I
> could easily be confusing the number with the recharge limit of older
> battery types.


Li-Po batteries can have about 500 complete discharge cycles, Li-Ion
about 1000. But they last much longer if not completely discharged.

> I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm simply
> not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the sucker costs me
> $15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my cellphone into a "corded
> phone!" ;-)


The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook
computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 12:11 PM
Larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in
news:fuk2o9$8h0$1@aioe.org:

> I try to recharge mid-day when possible/convenient, but frankly, I'm
> simply not going to let a $15 battery run my life. If abusing the
> sucker costs me $15/year, so be it. Rather that than turn my
> cellphone into a "corded phone!" ;-)
>
>
>


What pisses me off is the cheapskate *******s eliminated the CONVENIENT,
EASY-TO-USE, drop in chargers we had on the old flipphones. It gave you a
place to "hang" your phone on your desk or beside your bed so it didn't get
shoved off onto the floor, or worse.....it automatically recharged your
battery WITHOUT you having to fight some damned little USB connector you
can hardly see that MUST be plugged in a certain way, which is really
stupid.

The drop in stand encouraged charging, which I supposed was hard on battery
revenues....

On my desk was a quad, or was it octal, charging stand. Each slot would
charge the phone(s) with battery attached...or...charge an extra battery,
without it being attached to the phone. If you got longwinded, you simply
swapped the easy-to-swap battery pack, which was the back of the phone.
You didn't have to dig around inside some slick, shiny girly case, fight
the damned battery hold down gadget to pry it out without a pry bar, then
replace it all, a real PITA on any new phone, now. No, press the button,
slide the whole back off the phone and slide another one on and you were
ready-to-go.

They talk a lot longer than the POWERFUL old transmitters, due to their
very low power, not some digital magic, now....but their construction, now
just sucks for user convenience.

God I HATE USB charging!


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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 12:33 PM
Ron
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:12:45 -0600, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:

>At 21 Apr 2008 14:41:04 -0700 4phun wrote:
>> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
>> locations around the world.
>>
>> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
>> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
>> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
>> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>>
>> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>>
>> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
>> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.

>
>Ugh. I feel like we're playing role reversal because _I'm_ defending the
>iPhone!
>
>It's April, not June. Not only does Apple has time to iron it out, but
>also expectations may have to be adjusted for this device. Yes, I know the
>iPhone v1 has a good battery life for a smartphone, but frankly a fully-
>featured phone only really needs to make it through ONE DAY of use. With
>push-e-mail and bluetooth enabled, and maybe an hour to two of WiFi, my
>WinMo phone will start begging for a charge (literally, with on-screen pop-
>ups!) after 14-16 hours.


Not to mention Push-to-talk/walkie-talkie phones that have to keep
"advertising" their presence to the network. Now that sucks current.


>
>And that's fine- I charge it overnight and it's good to go the next day.
>Sure I wish it only needed to be charged once a week like my old Nokia
>candy-bar with B&W display and no GPRS, but if you want high-powered
>features, the phone is going to swallow some battery power.
>
>If it can run from 6AM to 10PM on a single charge, with a few hours of iPod
>and browsing use that'll be good enough. Apple might design a slick phone
>with a great UI, but they're bound by the same laws of physics as every
>other manufacturer- it's unrealistic to expect Apple to somehow eek 3 times
>the battery life out of their phone than their competitors can!
>
>For those who need ubiquitous high-speed data, it's worth the tradeoff.
>For those that don't, they can stick with iPhone V1, or turn 3G off...
>
>


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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:04 PM
Bill Kearney
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it


> Gee, Larry- none of us would have known any of that without you.


And those of us that have killfilled him would never see his garbage were it
not for people quoting the whole damned thing.

Please, trim the replies.


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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:05 PM
Bill Kearney
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

> > (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)
>
> Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy.....


Indeed, living proof of "those that can't do, teach"?

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 06:53 PM
DTC
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it

Bill Kearney wrote:
>> > (hey, I taught electronics for 20 years!)

>>
>> Okaaaayyyyyyyyyy.....

>
> Indeed, living proof of "those that can't do, teach"?


Like wise, those that can't finish vet school try for
a human medical doctor course plan.

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 07:46 PM
John B. Coarsey, PE
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it


"4phun" <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4b52a109-2207-4e10-882b-290c1b5e7a16@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> The 3G iPhone is now in the hands of network testers in several
> locations around the world.
>
> The most obvious flaw is that this new phone's battery life sucks big
> time. It is leaked that it is much worse that the original iPhone. The
> only practical usage will require it to be plugged into a desktop
> charger or a mobile charger almost all the time.
>
> I doubt Apple can fix this before June 2008.
>
> Good going Apple! this was supposed to be a kick *** wireless phone
> not one with a 150 foot extension cord to power it around the office.
>


Chapter and verse plz



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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:12 PM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it


"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A88544A43308noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...

> What pisses me off is the cheapskate *******s eliminated the CONVENIENT,
> EASY-TO-USE, drop in chargers we had on the old flipphones. It gave you a
> place to "hang" your phone on your desk or beside your bed so it didn't
> get
> shoved off onto the floor, or worse.....it automatically recharged your
> battery WITHOUT you having to fight some damned little USB connector you
> can hardly see that MUST be plugged in a certain way, which is really
> stupid.


Six of one, half-dozen of the other- while I too miss the convenient drop in
stands, I'm jazzed by the ubiquity of mini-USB as a charging (and
connection) "standard."

When traveling, I can take one charger (an AC charger with a built-in 22mAH
battery pack and two USB output ports) and a pair of USB to mini-USB cables
to handle two phones, two bluetooth headsets, a BT GPS, two kiddie MP3/MP4
media players, and even my wife's keychain digital picture frame! By
carrying the appropriate charge/sync cables, the same AC "wallbrick" also
handles my Zunes, an iPod, my backup prepaid phone (a Verizon WinMo phone on
PagePlus for where my T-Mo service is spotty), my old PDAs, etc. With the
charger's included battery pack, I have emergency charging power on
airplanes if the Zunes and media players can't handle a long flight without
a little help.

Mini-USB as REALLY cut down the size of my electronics "travel support kit."
It's worth the trade off of losing the drop-in chargers of the past.

> If you got longwinded, you simply
> swapped the easy-to-swap battery pack, which was the back of the phone.
> You didn't have to dig around inside some slick, shiny girly case, fight
> the damned battery hold down gadget to pry it out without a pry bar, then
> replace it all, a real PITA on any new phone, now.


Yeah, but that has advantages as well- I had three completely different
models of Nokia phones with entirely different form factors that all used
the same "take off the cover and replace it" battery, which by coincidence
also was the same battery used by my first BT GPS module (may it rest in
peace.) I never had to carry the stupid proprietary charger for that GPS- I
just swapped the battery with my phone's when the GPS ran down, and charged
the low battery in the phone.

Now my new GPS has a proprietary battery, but a "standard" charger- such is
progress, I guess!


> No, press the button,
> slide the whole back off the phone and slide another one on and you were
> ready-to-go.


Again, advantages and disadvantages- it was very rare that those molded case
batteries worked in any other phone, unless the new model was styled just
like the old (i.e. Nokia 5120, 6120, 5160, 6160, etc. or the various Moto
MicroTACs, etc.)

> God I HATE USB charging!


Again, one charger for "everything" has certain conveniences!




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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:13 PM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious flaw in 3G iPhone discovered - fixable I doubt it


"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:V7kPj.5272$iK6.4580@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...

> The typical use pattern of cell phones, digital cameras, notebook
> computers, etc., favors lithium based batteries.


Certainly- unfortunately, my WinMo phone favors a portable Honda gasoline
powered generator... ;-)



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