So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean cruise,
and doesn't actually use it. Presumably, he had it with him just in case
he got a call from home on his cell number -- that being the reason why
most people take their US worldphones overseas.
When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for $4800,
because the iPhone was updating its email in the background over expensive
GPRS roaming.
What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
using it." That misses the point of having your home country phone with
you when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to be a
phone.
If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local prepay
SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...
The hype and the glitter is starting to come off the 21st century Edsel.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
This has nothing to do with the iPhone per se. The same thing
could have happened with any BlackBerry or Windows Mobile
device configured to download new email automatically. I
don't know about the iPhone, but on my Windows Mobile device,
I can turn off email updates without turning off telephone
service. If he didn't want to pay to download email during
his cruise, then he should have turned off email updates.
The iPhone isn't responsible for the fact that some dweeb
forgot to turn off email updates on his phone while roaming.
In article
<alpine.LRH.0.9999.0709100800480.23506@shiva1.cac. washington.edu>,
Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
> http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235
>
> So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean cruise,
> and doesn't actually use it. Presumably, he had it with him just in case
> he got a call from home on his cell number -- that being the reason why
> most people take their US worldphones overseas.
>
> When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for $4800,
> because the iPhone was updating its email in the background over expensive
> GPRS roaming.
>
> What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
> using it."
Attention fanboys: HE DID TURN HIS PHONES OFF. The problem is, the
phones are NEVER OFF--only the display and touchscreen are powered off.
The guts of it continue to work AT ALL TIMES.
To quote the article:
> The problem was that their three Iphones were racking up a bill for data
> charges using foreign phone charges. The Iphone regularly updates e-mail,
> even while it's off, so that all the messages will be available when the user
> turns it on.
>
> Levy is fuming, claiming that Apple and AT&T were acting like a bank which
> has automatic access to your ATM machine and is siphoning money out during
> all times of the day and night.
Didja see that, fanboys? "...regularly updates email, even while it's
off..."
Let me see here: I can't turn it off. I can't remove the battery, like
I can with a Blackberry (for example).
gee, somehow Steve managed not to mention that little bit of how it
works...
Mark Crispin wrote:
> http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235
>
> So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean cruise,
> and doesn't actually use it. Presumably, he had it with him just in
> case he got a call from home on his cell number -- that being the reason
> why most people take their US worldphones overseas.
>
> When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for
> $4800, because the iPhone was updating its email in the background over
> expensive GPRS roaming.
>
> What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
> using it." That misses the point of having your home country phone with
> you when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to be
> a phone.
>
> If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local
> prepay SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...
Well now it's possible to unlock the iPhone to use prepaid SIM cards.
Once you modify it, it's actually an ideal device to take with you
traveling as it's a good small web access device over Wi-Fi. I use my
old Toshiba PDA which doesn't have a great browser. The new iPod Touch
is probably the best option for minimalist travelers that want a
portable web browser, along with an unlocked quad band or 900/1800 GSM
phone to use with prepaid SIM cards. I wish they hadn't removed
BlueTooth from the Touch.
That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those updates.
Many people don't mind some occasional international roaming when they
initiate the call or choose to answer a call, but they don't expect the
iPhone to "phone home" on its own.
> Attention fanboys: HE DID TURN HIS PHONES OFF. The problem is, the
> phones are NEVER OFF--only the display and touchscreen are powered off.
> The guts of it continue to work AT ALL TIMES.
LOL, now we know why they soldered in the battery!
In article <46e56d84$0$27249$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> > If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local
> > prepay SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...
>
> Well now it's possible to unlock the iPhone to use prepaid SIM cards.
> Once you modify it, it's actually an ideal device to take with you
> traveling as it's a good small web access device over Wi-Fi. I use my
> old Toshiba PDA which doesn't have a great browser. The new iPod Touch
> is probably the best option for minimalist travelers that want a
> portable web browser, along with an unlocked quad band or 900/1800 GSM
> phone to use with prepaid SIM cards. I wish they hadn't removed
> BlueTooth from the Touch.
>
> That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those updates.
> Many people don't mind some occasional international roaming when they
> initiate the call or choose to answer a call, but they don't expect the
> iPhone to "phone home" on its own.
you can turn off iPhone's EDGE roaming when traveling overseas, just
call AT&T and they will turn it off for you.
At 10 Sep 2007 08:15:39 -0700 Mark Crispin wrote:
> http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235
>
> So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean
cruise,
> and doesn't actually use it.
Sure he did- he just didn't make any calls! ;-)
> Presumably, he had it with him just in case he got a call from home
> on his cell number -- that being the reason why most people take
> their US worldphones overseas.
True.
> When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for
> $4800, because the iPhone was updating its email in the background
> over expensive GPRS roaming.
Yep. That's the reason I disable data on my phone when traveling
overseas. I reenable it if necessary (I want to check e-mail when
Wifi isn't available, for example) then disable it again.
> What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he
> wasn't using it."
I'm certainly not a fanboy, and have given the iPhone a few solid
knocks where I felt it deserved it, but please- how is this
"sucker's" experience different from anyone who takes their world-
band smartphone overseas and doesn't disable data? The guy next to
him on the cruise with a Blackberry or Treo is getting hit with the
same charges.
The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
$25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
via e-mail? XP Service packs?
> That misses the point of having your home country phone with you
> when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to
> be a phone.
And it is. Turn off the cellular data! Many seasoned travelers also
keep cheaper, "dumber" handsets for traveling, either for us with
prepaid SIMs, or just to reduce risk of loss. I'd rather lose a $30
GSM phone to damage or theft on vacation than a $400 one.
> If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local
> prepay SIM card.
Really? I thought you just said "Presumably, he had it with him just
in case he got a call from home on his cell number..." How does he
remain available on his cell number if he replaces his SIM with a
prepaid in each country he visits? Besides, Cruise lines don't offer
SIMs. I suspect the majority of the charges were from the Cruise
company's in-house system. (Which would likely not be part of the
"preferred country" $25/20MB rate, but Cingular's default $30/mb
rate.) Even if not, a Cruise ship tends to stop at a different port
in a different country each day? How many ~$30 SIMs is he supposd to
buy? How much vacation time is he supposed to waste hunting down
mobile phone shops at each port of call?
> But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...
As are many phones. Again, any phone with an auto-updating e-mail
client would have the same issue. The poor soul learned an expensive
lesson which is worth repeating here not to slam the iPhone, but as a
warning to any "newbie" traveling internationally with a smartphone.
If you don't know how to manage your phone's data settings before
leaving on a trip, ASK someone before you go!
> The hype and the glitter is starting to come off the 21st century
Edsel.
I'm not sure which is worse on these NGs- the fanboys or their
diametrically polarized opposites!
Now if you want to bash the iPhone because of some deficiency of the
PHONE, fine, but this was a deficiency of the "sucker's" knowledge,
not his phone.
Price of iPhone... $599
Price of roaming data... $1600.
Showing off your smug, perceived American superiority to Euopean
cruisers by whipping out your iPhone on the top deck during
shuffleboard... Priceless?
--
"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003
> That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those
> updates.
One might argue that RIM created an entire business model out of just
that "flaw." ;-)
Automatic e-mail retrieval is a feature of virtually every high-end
phone. This was an unfortunate case of user ignorance, not a failure
of phone design.
--
"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003
On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
>
> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
bill without trying too hard.
I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
"Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:slrnfeb61q.7j.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com...
> On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
>> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
>> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
>> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
>>
>> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
>> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
>
> It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
>
> If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
> At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> bill without trying too hard.
>
> I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
>
> Dennis Ferguson
Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
manually. See below:
[Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
“Every
15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
myself. Oh well.
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
> Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
>>
>> What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
>> using it."
>
> Attention fanboys: HE DID TURN HIS PHONES OFF.
Attention ignoramuses: HE DID *NOT* TURN HIS PHONES OFF.
To say otherwise is ludicrous. Tune in next week when some yo-yo posts:
"iPhone found in Titanic wreckage, $670,222,344,111,209.12 in data
charges!!!"
> The problem is, the
> phones are NEVER OFF--only the display and touchscreen are powered off.
> The guts of it continue to work AT ALL TIMES.
>
> To quote the article:
>
>> The problem was that their three Iphones were racking up a bill for data
>> charges using foreign phone charges. The Iphone regularly updates e-mail,
>> even while it's off, so that all the messages will be available when the
>> user
>> turns it on.
>>
>> Levy is fuming, claiming that Apple and AT&T were acting like a bank
>> which
>> has automatic access to your ATM machine and is siphoning money out
>> during
>> all times of the day and night.
>
> Didja see that, fanboys? "...regularly updates email, even while it's
> off..."
>
> Let me see here: I can't turn it off. I can't remove the battery, like
> I can with a Blackberry (for example).
>
Here's a hint: when the iPhone is turned off it is off and will **NOT**
auto-check email. Ferchrist's sake anyone who turned an iPhone off just
once, and I mean off not sleep, would know this.
Next time do a little research before quoting "The Enquirer" as gospel.
Oxford will have a field day with this--and you deserve it this time.
At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.
> If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
About the same as T-Mo, then (T-Mo is at $16/MB, IIRC, now.)
> At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> bill without trying too hard.
Certainly.
> I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> the phone on?
The folks that have unlocked them seem to have no trouble
provisioning them for T-Mo, so I assume the data settings are
available, but I have no first hand knowledge- I don't currently, nor
do I have any plans to, own one.
> If not, that would be a design problem.
Agreed, but not an insurmountable one- as a last resort you could
simply delete your IMAP accounts and there'd be nothing to sync to.
I'm almost as bad- when I travel outside the US, I rename my APN to
an invalid one just in case I forget to turn off auto-retrieval!
I certainly don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the people in the
posted article- I was really just pointing out that it's not a
problem specific to "iPhones." With the ever-growing popularity of
smartphones, international travel can be hazardous to your wallet
without precautions! (As you well know better than most of us!) ;-)
--
"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003
In article <5klkn5F4e5obU1@mid.individual.net>,
"John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnfeb61q.7j.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com...
> > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
> >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
> >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
> >>
> >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
> >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
> >
> > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
> >
> > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
> > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> > bill without trying too hard.
> >
> > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
> >
> > Dennis Ferguson
>
> Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
> manually. See below:
>
> [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
>
> From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
> “Every
>
> 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
>
>
>
> Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
> myself. Oh well.
And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
*manually*.
Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
off...
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
>
>> It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
>> which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
>> The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
>
> Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
> a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
> reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.
I don't know. All the other comparable plans, including the one
for laptops ($140 for 100 M, require a year term, but the iPhone
plan description doesn't explicitly mention this.
It is always possible to cancel term service in the first 30 days,
however, if one has the self discipline to do it. I've actually
been tempted to take the laptop plan for a particular trip and
cancel when I get back, but my organizational skills are such
that I've been scared I'll end up paying a couple of months plus
the ETF.
On Sep 10, 8:15 am, Mark Crispin <m...@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
> http://theinquirer.net/?article=42235
>
> So the sucker takes his iPhone toy with him on a Mediterranean cruise,
> and doesn't actually use it. Presumably, he had it with him just in case
> he got a call from home on his cell number -- that being the reason why
> most people take their US worldphones overseas.
Kind of off topic, but I tied the "Mobile YouTube" (with a Razr, not
an iPhone, but I presume same content) service, and I was very
underwhelmed with the selection of videos they had on there. I would
estimate that the mobile version has maybe 1/1000th of the content of
the regular YouTube site, if even that. Also, the videos seemed to
have been hand picked, and the service reminded me more of regular TV,
albeit with different content, than the wild west goodness of the
regular YouTube. I was very underwhelmed. What does this have to do
with the iPhone? They were using the mobile version of YouTube as a
selling point. Not good.
>
> When he gets home, he's rewarded with a 54 page bill from AT&T for $4800,
> because the iPhone was updating its email in the background over expensive
> GPRS roaming.
>
> What do the fanboys say: "He shoulda turned the phone off if he wasn't
> using it." That misses the point of having your home country phone with
> you when overseas, which is to receive phone calls. It's supposed to be a
> phone.
>
> If he actually intended to use the phone overseas, he'd get a local prepay
> SIM card. But the iPhone is locked...oh dear, oh my...
>
> The hype and the glitter is starting to come off the 21st century Edsel.
>
I agree. The hype bit it for me even before the damned thing was
released when Jobs said "no 3rd party apps" (except Web 2.0 but I
don't consider those apps proper, as in running on the phone its self,
without having to be on a network). I tried the phone itself, and
while the interface is nice, it's not something I would shout from the
rooftops from. Hell, you can find the slider, pusher things on an old
iPaq or other touch screen based Windows Mobile 2002 and better (Palm
probably has this too), and some of the games and apps make extensive
use of those too. On top of that, this has been going on long before
the iPhone was a glimmer in Apple's eyes. No Multitouch, yes, but the
regular touch screens work fine as they are.
In article <5klkn5F4e5obU1@mid.individual.net>,
"John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnfeb61q.7j.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com...
> > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
> >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
> >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
> >>
> >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
> >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
> >
> > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
> >
> > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
> > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> > bill without trying too hard.
> >
> > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
> >
> > Dennis Ferguson
>
> Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
> manually. See below:
>
> [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
>
> From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
> “Every
>
> 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
>
>
>
> Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
> myself. Oh well.
On Sep 10, 1:18 pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
>
> > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
>
> Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
> a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
> reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.
>
> > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
>
> About the same as T-Mo, then (T-Mo is at $16/MB, IIRC, now.)
>
> > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> > bill without trying too hard.
>
> Certainly.
>
> > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> > the phone on?
>
> The folks that have unlocked them seem to have no trouble
> provisioning them for T-Mo, so I assume the data settings are
> available, but I have no first hand knowledge- I don't currently, nor
> do I have any plans to, own one.
>
> > If not, that would be a design problem.
>
> Agreed, but not an insurmountable one- as a last resort you could
> simply delete your IMAP accounts and there'd be nothing to sync to.
>
> I'm almost as bad- when I travel outside the US, I rename my APN to
> an invalid one just in case I forget to turn off auto-retrieval!
>
> I certainly don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the people in the
> posted article- I was really just pointing out that it's not a
> problem specific to "iPhones." With the ever-growing popularity of
> smartphones, international travel can be hazardous to your wallet
> without precautions! (As you well know better than most of us!) ;-)
>
What really gets my goat is *why* does International Data have to be
this expensive in the first place? This seems very ass backward to me,
sort of like the pricing structures of "information services" like
Compuserve were 25 years ago.
And $M$? Total rip off, thats why I never use it..
In article <KefFi.12764$5D.11028@fe099.usenetserver.com>,
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> At 10 Sep 2007 09:16:18 -0700 SMS wrote:
>
> > That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those
> > updates.
>
> One might argue that RIM created an entire business model out of just
> that "flaw." ;-)
> Automatic e-mail retrieval is a feature of virtually every high-end
> phone. This was an unfortunate case of user ignorance, not a failure
> of phone design.
Automatically retrieving email can be turned off in the iPhone.
--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
At 10 Sep 2007 21:12:03 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> It is always possible to cancel term service in the first 30 days,
> however, if one has the self discipline to do it. I've actually
> been tempted to take the laptop plan for a particular trip and
> cancel when I get back, but my organizational skills are such
> that I've been scared I'll end up paying a couple of months plus
> the ETF.
More importantly, I assume there is a finite number of times you
could get away with it! ("Uh, Mr. Ferguson, what makes you think
you'll enjoy this service any more THIS time than you did that week
in February, the two weeks last June or the first time you tried it a
year ago March?") ;-)
--
"I don't need my cell phone to play video games or take pictures
or double as a Walkie-Talkie; I just need it to work. Thanks for
all the bells and whistles, but I could communicate better with
ACTUAL bells and whistles." -Bill Maher 9/25/2003
In article <alangbaker-88CFF5.13383410092007@news.telus.net>,
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> In article <5klkn5F4e5obU1@mid.individual.net>,
> "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > "Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:slrnfeb61q.7j.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com...
> > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
> > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
> > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
> > >>
> > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
> > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
> > >
> > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
> > >
> > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
> > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> > > bill without trying too hard.
> > >
> > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
> > >
> > > Dennis Ferguson
> >
> > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
> > manually. See below:
> >
> > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
> >
> > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap Manual,
> > “Every
> >
> > 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
> >
> >
> >
> > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
> > myself. Oh well.
>
> And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
> *manually*.
>
> Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
> off...
By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off switch
to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it set to
check automatically.
--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
In article
<teadams$2$0$0$3-F5D853.18333210092007@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>
,
Tim Adams <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In article <alangbaker-88CFF5.13383410092007@news.telus.net>,
> Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>
> > In article <5klkn5F4e5obU1@mid.individual.net>,
> > "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > > news:slrnfeb61q.7j.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com...
> > > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> > > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T charges
> > > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
> > > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
> > > >>
> > > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
> > > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
> > > >
> > > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> > > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> > > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
> > > >
> > > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> > > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
> > > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> > > > bill without trying too hard.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> > > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
> > > >
> > > > Dennis Ferguson
> > >
> > > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
> > > manually. See below:
> > >
> > > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
> > >
> > > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap
> > > Manual,
> > > “Every
> > >
> > > 15 minutes,” “Every 30 minutes,” or “Every hour.”] p 50 of Iphone manual
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on this
> > > myself. Oh well.
> >
> > And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
> > *manually*.
> >
> > Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
> > off...
>
> By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off
> switch
> to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it set
> to
> check automatically.
Of course, by "turned off", I mean "turned off". :-)
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm certainly not a fanboy, and have given the iPhone a few solid
>> knocks where I felt it deserved it, but please- how is this
>> "sucker's" experience different from anyone who takes their world-
>> band smartphone overseas and doesn't disable data? The guy next to
>> him on the cruise with a Blackberry or Treo is getting hit with the
>> same charges.
>
> No, the guy next to him on the cruise with the BB or Treo can turn his
> phone OFF, as in all the way off. The iPhone, no such way exists,
> apparently.
>
Wow. The nonsense spewed in this thread is astounding.
"Tim Adams" wrote:
> Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
>
>> In article <5klkn5F4e5obU1@mid.individual.net>,
>> "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> > news:slrnfeb61q.7j.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com...
>> > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
>> > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T
>> > >> charges
>> > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
>> > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
>> > >>
>> > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
>> > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
>> > >
>> > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
>> > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
>> > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
>> > >
>> > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
>> > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
>> > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
>> > > bill without trying too hard.
>> > >
>> > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
>> > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
>> > >
>> > > Dennis Ferguson
>> >
>> > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
>> > manually. See below:
>> >
>> > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
>> >
>> > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap
>> > Manual,
>> > "Every
>> >
>> > 15 minutes," "Every 30 minutes," or "Every hour."] p 50 of Iphone
>> > manual
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on
>> > this
>> > myself. Oh well.
>>
>> And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
>> *manually*.
>>
>> Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
>> off...
>
> By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off
> switch
> to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it
> set to
> check automatically.
Uh, "turned off" means turned off. There is no "off switch," it's the--you
won't believe this--"sleep" button. When pressed it--again, hard to
believe--puts the iPhone to, well, sleep.
Sleep is not, in any way, the same as "off." When the iPhone is off it does
not--can not--check mail.
Can't believe this actually has to be spelled out. Tune in next week while
we debate making phone calls while in "Airplane Mode."
In article <1189460365.012099.34260@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.c om>, ultimauw@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Sep 10, 1:18 pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> > At 10 Sep 2007 19:17:15 +0000 Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> >
> > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
> >
> > Ah, the "catch"- thanks. Can you turn it on and off (i.e. a month at
> > a time) or does it have a term committment? Even a month's fee seems
> > reasonable for a week abroad vs. the standard rate.
> >
> > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
> >
> > About the same as T-Mo, then (T-Mo is at $16/MB, IIRC, now.)
> >
> > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> > > bill without trying too hard.
> >
> > Certainly.
> >
> > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> > > the phone on?
> >
> > The folks that have unlocked them seem to have no trouble
> > provisioning them for T-Mo, so I assume the data settings are
> > available, but I have no first hand knowledge- I don't currently, nor
> > do I have any plans to, own one.
> >
> > > If not, that would be a design problem.
> >
> > Agreed, but not an insurmountable one- as a last resort you could
> > simply delete your IMAP accounts and there'd be nothing to sync to.
> >
> > I'm almost as bad- when I travel outside the US, I rename my APN to
> > an invalid one just in case I forget to turn off auto-retrieval!
> >
> > I certainly don't mean to sound unsympathetic to the people in the
> > posted article- I was really just pointing out that it's not a
> > problem specific to "iPhones." With the ever-growing popularity of
> > smartphones, international travel can be hazardous to your wallet
> > without precautions! (As you well know better than most of us!) ;-)
> >
>
>
> What really gets my goat is *why* does International Data have to be
> this expensive in the first place? This seems very ass backward to me,
> sort of like the pricing structures of "information services" like
> Compuserve were 25 years ago.
>
> And $M$? Total rip off, thats why I never use it..
These pricing arrangements will eventually go that way, too, as people
find better ways to get their data.
Hotels try and get an internet charge from you when you can go to the
coffee house down the street.
In article <5km514F4gvl8U1@mid.individual.net>, "Tinman" <ask@for.it> wrote:
> "Tim Adams" wrote:
> > Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <5klkn5F4e5obU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >> "John B. Coarsey, PE" <jcoarsey<nospam>@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > "Dennis Ferguson" <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> >> > news:slrnfeb61q.7j.dcferguson@akit-ferguson.com...
> >> > > On 2007-09-10, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> >> > >> The article stated they had three iPhones with them, and AT&T
> >> > >> charges
> >> > >> $25 for 20 MB of data when roaming in 29 countries (an excellent
> >> > >> value compared to many carriers, BTW!)
> >> > >>
> >> > >> So, to run up $1600/phone, what the heck were these people receiving
> >> > >> via e-mail? XP Service packs?
> >> > >
> >> > > It isn't that excellent. The $25 is a recurring monthly charge
> >> > > which allows you to receive up to 20 MB in any one month for free.
> >> > > The overage charge on the plan is $0.005/kB, or $100 per 20 MB.
> >> > >
> >> > > If you aren't paying the $25 per month, or you are outside the 29
> >> > > countries, then the data charge is $0.0195/kB, or $400 per 20 MB.
> >> > > At that price it is fairly easy to see how one could run up a $1600
> >> > > bill without trying too hard.
> >> > >
> >> > > I wonder, is it easy to turn the data off on an iPhone while leaving
> >> > > the phone on? If not, that would be a design problem.
> >> > >
> >> > > Dennis Ferguson
> >> >
> >> > Yes, according to the manual it is very easy have the device only check
> >> > manually. See below:
> >> >
> >> > [Set whether iPhone checks for new messages automatically
> >> >
> >> > From the Home screen choose Settings > Mail > Auto-Check, then tap
> >> > Manual,
> >> > "Every
> >> >
> >> > 15 minutes," "Every 30 minutes," or "Every hour."] p 50 of Iphone
> >> > manual
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Real easy, but in all fairness to the OP I might have gotten bit on
> >> > this
> >> > myself. Oh well.
> >>
> >> And it's my understanding that the default setting is to check for mail
> >> *manually*.
> >>
> >> Not to mention that the iPhone doesn't check for mail when it is turned
> >> off...
> >
> > By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off
> > switch
> > to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it
> > set to
> > check automatically.
>
> Uh, "turned off" means turned off. There is no "off switch," it's the--you
> won't believe this--"sleep" button. When pressed it--again, hard to
> believe--puts the iPhone to, well, sleep.
>
> Sleep is not, in any way, the same as "off." When the iPhone is off it does
> not--can not--check mail.
>
> Can't believe this actually has to be spelled out. Tune in next week while
> we debate making phone calls while in "Airplane Mode."
I only brought it up as I know a person with an iPhone that didn't know the
'Off' vs the 'Sleep' state till I showed him. He thought the 'Sleep' as also
considered 'Off'.
Since Alan doesn't, or at least didn't, own an iPhone, I wanted to claify what
he had written.
--
regarding Snit "You are not flamed because you speak the truth,
you are flamed because you are a hideous troll and keep disrupting
the newsgroup." Andrew J. Brehm
In news:5km4ooF4bsh1U1@mid.individual.net,
Tinman <ask@for.it> typed:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:
>> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm certainly not a fanboy, and have given the iPhone a few solid
>>> knocks where I felt it deserved it, but please- how is this
>>> "sucker's" experience different from anyone who takes their world-
>>> band smartphone overseas and doesn't disable data? The guy next to
>>> him on the cruise with a Blackberry or Treo is getting hit with the
>>> same charges.
>>
>> No, the guy next to him on the cruise with the BB or Treo can turn his
>> phone OFF, as in all the way off. The iPhone, no such way exists,
>> apparently.
>>
>
>
> Wow. The nonsense spewed in this thread is astounding.
How do you turn OFF an iPhone, like other cell phones when the battery is
removed?
Tim Adams <teadams$2$0$0$3@earthlink.net> writes:
>By 'turned off' you mean completely powered down. Just pressing the off switch
>to blank the screen does NOT stop it from checking email IF you have it set to
>check automatically.
Well, yes, and my Windows Mobile device behaves exactly the same way.
Claims that the iPhone was checking the guy's email even though he had
"turned it off," or that the iPhone was behaving any differently
from any other email-enabled mobile device, are just a load of crap.
"IMHO IIRC" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.NOSPAM> writes:
>> Wow. The nonsense spewed in this thread is astounding.
>
>How do you turn OFF an iPhone, like other cell phones when the battery is
>removed?
Straw man and nonsequitur. I don't have to remove my battery to run
off my Windows Mobile device and prevent it from downloading email, and
an iPhone user doesn't have to be able to remove his battery to prevent
his iPhone from downloading email.
The "I remove my battery to be *damn sure* I'm not paying international
data rates, so the iPhone is bad because iPhone users can't do the same
thing" argument is an astoundingly lame, stupid, desperate attempt to
bash the iPhone for something that is simply not the iPhone's fault and
no different for the iPhone from any other data-enabled device.
I don't have an iPhone. I probably never will have an iPhone. I
don't care one way or the other whether people love or hate the
iPhone. But I just can't stand to see the absurd bullshit that people
are spewing because, for whatever reason, they feel desperately the
need to bash everything about the iPhone.
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:46e56d84$0$27249$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> That's a very bad design flaw to have it automatically do those updates.
> Many people don't mind some occasional international roaming when they
> initiate the call or choose to answer a call, but they don't expect the
> iPhone to "phone home" on its own.
take your iPhone abroad, pay $4800 
, require a year term, but the iPhone