On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:13:00 GMT, DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob>
wrote in <wzuNh.16139$tD2.12868@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net>:
>John Navas wrote:
>> If you've got any real evidence to the contrary, of AMPS having
>> significantly more range than digital at comparable power levels (and
>> antennas), then by all means post it.
>
>If you've got any *real evidence* of Extended GSM, then by all means post it.
1. Irrelevant to the issue at hand -- "You do it too!" isn't a
persuasive argument.
2. I have first hand experience with Extended Range GSM, so I know it
exists, and really don't care whether anyone else believes it or
not.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in
news:02id03hfostcemb7gojk5iuq555bel52h7@4ax.com:
>
> 2. I have first hand experience with Extended Range GSM, so I know it
> exists, and really don't care whether anyone else believes it or
> not.
>
So you have nothing but the anecdotal story of an average user as proof of
your claim? According to many of your own posts, that is not worthy of
consideration.
How pathetic.
The fact is that no carrier on the north american continent is using
"extended GSM" technology. The technology, while possible, has proven too
costly to be of any benefit in the US.
In article <cYBNh.15029$PL.14052@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink .net>,
DTC <no_spam@move_along_folks.foob> wrote:
> John Navas wrote:
> > 2. I have first hand experience with Extended Range GSM, so I know it
> > exists,
>
> And *THAT*, dear readers....is his version of "credible evidence".
>
> So whenever he demands you back up your post or claim with credible
> evidence, remind him your personal experience is as good as it gets.
>
On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:46:19 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <46049f0d$0$27245$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>I've often made calls on the AMPS service, including in Tilden Park
>(above Berkeley), Sanborn County Park, along the far northern California
>coast between Fort Bragg and Mendocino, as well as along highway 88
>between Kirkwood and Lake Tahoe.
Ah yes, your Tilden Park claim again.
Well it happens that I was in Tilden Park today, and took the
opportunity to check Cingular coverage with my Motorola RAZR V3xx, both
by car and on foot. I found it to actually be good over most of the
park, almost always 3-5 bars of signal, most often 4 bars, with
high-speed data as well, both HSDPA(3G) and EGPRS(EDGE). I entertained
people with streaming video while waiting for the steam train.
I was there to meet a friend, but we failed to connect. The reason is
that she wasn't able to call me on her (tri-mode dual-band) Verizon
phone.
Another Scharfism bites the dust.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:54:35 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <460719ca$0$27160$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>DTC wrote:
>> John Navas wrote:
>>> 2. I have first hand experience with Extended Range GSM, so I know it
>>> exists,
>>
>> And *THAT*, dear readers....is his version of "credible evidence".
>>
>> So whenever he demands you back up your post or claim with credible
>> evidence, remind him your personal experience is as good as it gets.
>
>"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth
>and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain
That's pretty funny coming from you.
--
Best regards,
John Navas <http://navasgroup.com/>
"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." --Gene Spafford
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in
news:un9e031dfoa2gdbdif1ejot2jne577341f@4ax.com:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:46:19 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote in <46049f0d$0$27245$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>
>>I've often made calls on the AMPS service, including in Tilden Park
>>(above Berkeley), Sanborn County Park, along the far northern California
>>coast between Fort Bragg and Mendocino, as well as along highway 88
>>between Kirkwood and Lake Tahoe.
>
> Ah yes, your Tilden Park claim again.
>
> Well it happens that I was in Tilden Park today, and took the
> opportunity to check Cingular coverage with my Motorola RAZR V3xx, both
> by car and on foot. I found it to actually be good over most of the
> park, almost always 3-5 bars of signal, most often 4 bars, with
> high-speed data as well, both HSDPA(3G) and EGPRS(EDGE). I entertained
> people with streaming video while waiting for the steam train.
>
> I was there to meet a friend, but we failed to connect. The reason is
> that she wasn't able to call me on her (tri-mode dual-band) Verizon
> phone.
>
> Another Scharfism bites the dust.
>
Wow- that was even more self-serving than usual for you. And it has the
distinct aroma of pure bullshit. You wouldn't be lying, would you Johnny?
Of course, it will be up to the rest of the readers to determine just how
much credence your statememnt is given (if any).
You see, that's the problem with having such blinding product bias, as you
do. You have proven that you will go to any length to paint the company in
a positive light. Your "word" no longer has a value to anyone here and all
of your claims are baseless and devoid of fact. Resorting to using your
own questionable experience as end-all-be-all fact simply shows the
deperation of your viewpoint.
As for me, I have no doubt that your claims above are either a complete
fabrication or were greatly "enhanced" to prove your point. You have
proven yourself capable of both countless times in the past
Whenever navas is having his PMS, both his "personal experience" and his
"V3xx" tend to be part of his claims.
In article <YfednWYuDdhrsprbnZ2dnUVZ_revnZ2d@adelphia.com>,
Scott <how.do@you.do> wrote:
> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in
> news:un9e031dfoa2gdbdif1ejot2jne577341f@4ax.com:
>
> > On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:46:19 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> > wrote in <46049f0d$0$27245$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
> >
> >>I've often made calls on the AMPS service, including in Tilden Park
> >>(above Berkeley), Sanborn County Park, along the far northern California
> >>coast between Fort Bragg and Mendocino, as well as along highway 88
> >>between Kirkwood and Lake Tahoe.
> >
> > Ah yes, your Tilden Park claim again.
> >
> > Well it happens that I was in Tilden Park today, and took the
> > opportunity to check Cingular coverage with my Motorola RAZR V3xx, both
> > by car and on foot. I found it to actually be good over most of the
> > park, almost always 3-5 bars of signal, most often 4 bars, with
> > high-speed data as well, both HSDPA(3G) and EGPRS(EDGE). I entertained
> > people with streaming video while waiting for the steam train.
> >
> > I was there to meet a friend, but we failed to connect. The reason is
> > that she wasn't able to call me on her (tri-mode dual-band) Verizon
> > phone.
> >
> > Another Scharfism bites the dust.
> >
>
> Wow- that was even more self-serving than usual for you. And it has the
> distinct aroma of pure bullshit. You wouldn't be lying, would you Johnny?
> Of course, it will be up to the rest of the readers to determine just how
> much credence your statememnt is given (if any).
>
> You see, that's the problem with having such blinding product bias, as you
> do. You have proven that you will go to any length to paint the company in
> a positive light. Your "word" no longer has a value to anyone here and all
> of your claims are baseless and devoid of fact. Resorting to using your
> own questionable experience as end-all-be-all fact simply shows the
> deperation of your viewpoint.
>
> As for me, I have no doubt that your claims above are either a complete
> fabrication or were greatly "enhanced" to prove your point. You have
> proven yourself capable of both countless times in the past
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:54:35 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <460719ca$0$27160$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>DTC wrote:
>> John Navas wrote:
>>> 2. I have first hand experience with Extended Range GSM, so I know it
>>> exists,
>>
>> And *THAT*, dear readers....is his version of "credible evidence".
>>
>> So whenever he demands you back up your post or claim with credible
>> evidence, remind him your personal experience is as good as it gets.
>
>"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth
>and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain
p.s. Check your computer clock, and you'll have a better chance of not
putting your foot in your mouth yet again.
--
Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
Scott wrote:
> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in
> news:un9e031dfoa2gdbdif1ejot2jne577341f@4ax.com:
>
>
>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:46:19 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote in <46049f0d$0$27245$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>>
>>
>>> I've often made calls on the AMPS service, including in Tilden Park
>>> (above Berkeley), Sanborn County Park, along the far northern California
>>> coast between Fort Bragg and Mendocino, as well as along highway 88
>>> between Kirkwood and Lake Tahoe.
>>>
>> Ah yes, your Tilden Park claim again.
>>
>> Well it happens that I was in Tilden Park today, and took the
>> opportunity to check Cingular coverage with my Motorola RAZR V3xx, both
>> by car and on foot. I found it to actually be good over most of the
>> park, almost always 3-5 bars of signal, most often 4 bars, with
>> high-speed data as well, both HSDPA(3G) and EGPRS(EDGE). I entertained
>> people with streaming video while waiting for the steam train.
>>
>> I was there to meet a friend, but we failed to connect. The reason is
>> that she wasn't able to call me on her (tri-mode dual-band) Verizon
>> phone.
>>
>>
ah, She just happens to have Verizon as her provider. Yeah
Righttttttttt........
>> Another Scharfism bites the dust.
>>
>>
>
> Wow- that was even more self-serving than usual for you. And it has the
> distinct aroma of pure bullshit. You wouldn't be lying, would you Johnny?
> Of course, it will be up to the rest of the readers to determine just how
> much credence your statememnt is given (if any).
>
> You see, that's the problem with having such blinding product bias, as you
> do. You have proven that you will go to any length to paint the company in
> a positive light. Your "word" no longer has a value to anyone here and all
> of your claims are baseless and devoid of fact. Resorting to using your
> own questionable experience as end-all-be-all fact simply shows the
> deperation of your viewpoint.
>
> As for me, I have no doubt that your claims above are either a complete
> fabrication or were greatly "enhanced" to prove your point. You have
> proven yourself capable of both countless times in the past
>
DTC wrote:
> John Navas wrote:
>> 2. I have first hand experience with Extended Range GSM, so I know it
>> exists,
>
> And *THAT*, dear readers....is his version of "credible evidence".
>
> So whenever he demands you back up your post or claim with credible
> evidence, remind him your personal experience is as good as it gets.
"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth
and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain
The "Amps" Service is locked out by Cingular on GSM/Amps capable phones,
such as the Nokia 6340i.
This seems to be accomplished in two sneeky ways.
1. Remove the Amps provider from the phone on a no notice update.
2. Lock the phone such that it will use a GSM site even thought the GSM site
has a problem.
a. One way conversations when using the GSM site is a typical
problem.
b. No channels available on the GSM site, other than the channels
used for housekeeping. Actual use does not work.
c. No bearer available or no connection is a typical message when
you run into the issues.
3. When phone service is poor to unusable, the same phone will not roam to a
working GSM site due to Cingulars programming, even if the working GSM site
is a Cingular site, or a site with a cingular agreement. Again, the cause is
Cingulars unique firmware, that locks out "standard" features of this model.
4. The ability to manually force change to a working GSM site (Even when
it's a Cingular site) is locked out by Cingulars unique firmware.
5. Cingular no longer fully supports the WAP version on this phone, even
though they are "required" to do so until at least 2008.
"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
news:v24b03haofkrm98gllobtganujg1a53m7g@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:26:06 -0600, Todd Allcock
> <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in <eu1tpa$8fg$1@aioe.org>:
>
> >At 23 Mar 2007 15:36:41 -0700 SMS wrote:
> >
> >> What John doesn't understand is that the range of AMPS is greater,
> >> even on a low power handset, and on coverage maps they will always
> >> show digital service where it co-exists with AMPS, without showing
> >> the additional coverage area provided by AMPS.
> >
> >Maybe CDMA is an entirely different beast, butin a decade with TDMA on
> >Cingular, AT&TWS (and now both!) a phone TELLING you it has AMPS
> >coverage, and the ability to actually make or receive a call are entirely
> >different things. It's been pretty rare that I has enough signal to
> >actually make a call when the "D" for digital indicator disappeared from
> >my TDMA phones (unless I was roaming on a non-TDMA carrier like Verizon
> >and had no TDMA coverage but lots of signal.)
> >
> >So a lot of this AMPS coverage you speak of is likely unusable service.
> >An, in my experience (again, with TDMA) I've never seen a tower lose
> >digital signal 20 miles before the analog service craps out, and that
> >includes service in rural Kansas and Nebraska. I have to believe you
> >were analog roaming on some partner's service that your friend's PRL
> >denied him access to.
>
> Either Steven has a very very old phone, or he just makes it up.
>
> --
> Best regards, SEE THE FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS AT
> John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
In article <zb8Uh.33953$YJ4.23784@newsfe23.lga>, Chuckk2nospam@cox.net
says...
> The "Amps" Service is locked out by Cingular on GSM/Amps capable phones,
> such as the Nokia 6340i.
> This seems to be accomplished in two sneeky ways.
> 1. Remove the Amps provider from the phone on a no notice update.
> 2. Lock the phone such that it will use a GSM site even thought the GSM site
> has a problem.
> a. One way conversations when using the GSM site is a typical
> problem.
> b. No channels available on the GSM site, other than the channels
> used for housekeeping. Actual use does not work.
> c. No bearer available or no connection is a typical message when
> you run into the issues.
> 3. When phone service is poor to unusable, the same phone will not roam to a
> working GSM site due to Cingulars programming, even if the working GSM site
> is a Cingular site, or a site with a cingular agreement. Again, the cause is
> Cingulars unique firmware, that locks out "standard" features of this model.
> 4. The ability to manually force change to a working GSM site (Even when
> it's a Cingular site) is locked out by Cingulars unique firmware.
> 5. Cingular no longer fully supports the WAP version on this phone, even
> though they are "required" to do so until at least 2008.
If you are having these problems on a 6340i then I suspect your 6340i is
either not on a GAIT plan or doesn't have the proper GAIT feature codes
set on a GSM plan.
I have roamed all over TX in the last couple of years and I have seen
the 6340i switch between GSM, TDMA and AMPS frequently with none of the
problems you are describing. (Well, #4 above is true about not being
able to manually select a carrier but that was true from day1.) Yes, it
will hold onto a Cingular GSM signal until it looses the last bar but
then I've seen it switch to both TDMA and another GSM carrier. Once it
switches to a stronger carrier it holds that one for awhile--in fact
I've had to turn it off and back on to make it pick up Cingular again
(several times in the case of the old ATT system). And there is one
stretch near my family home in central TX where it ALWAYS switches to
AMPS--used to be from TDMA to AMPS, now it's from GSM to AMPS.
The last couple of months I've been using a GSM-only PDA phone and never
lost GSM (due to booster and external antennas)--at least not long
enough to dig the 6340i out of the glovebox. But before that it was
certainly switching as intended. The next time I loose GSM I'll switch
to the 6340i and verify it's still working on TDMA and/or AMPS--but I
bet it's fine on a GAIT plan.
And WAP was working fine the last time I tried it.
--
Jud
Dallas TX USA
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 13:29:18 -0400, "Chuck" <Chuckk2nospam@cox.net>
wrote in <zb8Uh.33953$YJ4.23784@newsfe23.lga>:
>The "Amps" Service is locked out by Cingular on GSM/Amps capable phones,
>such as the Nokia 6340i.
>This seems to be accomplished in two sneeky ways.
>1. Remove the Amps provider from the phone on a no notice update.
>2. Lock the phone such that it will use a GSM site even thought the GSM site
>has a problem.
Home network is a standard GSM feature.
> a. One way conversations when using the GSM site is a typical
>problem.
I'm not seeing such problems.
> b. No channels available on the GSM site, other than the channels
>used for housekeeping. Actual use does not work.
> c. No bearer available or no connection is a typical message when
>you run into the issues.
If no Home channels are available, then the phone will try non-Home
networks.
>3. When phone service is poor to unusable, the same phone will not roam to a
>working GSM site due to Cingulars programming, even if the working GSM site
>is a Cingular site, or a site with a cingular agreement. Again, the cause is
>Cingulars unique firmware, that locks out "standard" features of this model.
Actually standard GSM operation -- Home network is preferred when there
is a "usable" signal even if there's a much better signal on a non-Home
network.
>4. The ability to manually force change to a working GSM site (Even when
>it's a Cingular site) is locked out by Cingulars unique firmware.
True, probably to prevent unnecessary higher-cost roaming.
>5. Cingular no longer fully supports the WAP version on this phone, even
>though they are "required" to do so until at least 2008.
What requirement? I know of no such requirement.
p.s. Please don't switch posting styles (top vs bottom) in mid-thread
-- it makes the thread confusing and hard to follow. Thanks.
>"John Navas" <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote in message
>news:v24b03haofkrm98gllobtganujg1a53m7g@4ax.com.. .
>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 18:26:06 -0600, Todd Allcock
>> <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in <eu1tpa$8fg$1@aioe.org>:
>>
>> >At 23 Mar 2007 15:36:41 -0700 SMS wrote:
>> >
>> >> What John doesn't understand is that the range of AMPS is greater,
>> >> even on a low power handset, and on coverage maps they will always
>> >> show digital service where it co-exists with AMPS, without showing
>> >> the additional coverage area provided by AMPS.
>> >
>> >Maybe CDMA is an entirely different beast, butin a decade with TDMA on
>> >Cingular, AT&TWS (and now both!) a phone TELLING you it has AMPS
>> >coverage, and the ability to actually make or receive a call are entirely
>> >different things. It's been pretty rare that I has enough signal to
>> >actually make a call when the "D" for digital indicator disappeared from
>> >my TDMA phones (unless I was roaming on a non-TDMA carrier like Verizon
>> >and had no TDMA coverage but lots of signal.)
>> >
>> >So a lot of this AMPS coverage you speak of is likely unusable service.
>> >An, in my experience (again, with TDMA) I've never seen a tower lose
>> >digital signal 20 miles before the analog service craps out, and that
>> >includes service in rural Kansas and Nebraska. I have to believe you
>> >were analog roaming on some partner's service that your friend's PRL
>> >denied him access to.
>>
>> Either Steven has a very very old phone, or he just makes it up.
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR CINGULAR WIRELESS:
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless_FAQ>
Re: TDMA Shutdown 
Linear Mode
