is there any way to wirelessly detect a cell phone's model number?

Hi,

Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close proximity)
get/read a cell
phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I need to
find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be greatly
appreciated.

TIA,
Isaac

Isaac wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close proximity)
> get/read a cell
> phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I need to
> find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> TIA,
> Isaac
>

I'm inclined to doubt it! Why would anyone need the model of someone
else's phone?? Why would the manufacturer build such a capability into
the phone? How could he justify the cost of doing so?

Maybe you should start with the problem you are trying to solve!!

"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:M_-dnTFjv9OQVvDWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Isaac wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close
>> proximity) get/read a cell
>> phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I need
>> to
>> find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> TIA,
>> Isaac
>>
>
> I'm inclined to doubt it! Why would anyone need the model of someone
> else's phone?? Why would the manufacturer build such a capability into
> the phone? How could he justify the cost of doing so?
>
> Maybe you should start with the problem you are trying to solve!!

Imagine someone is a pickpocket.

Imagine someone wants to steal high value mobile phones (or the well filled
wallets of those carrying them).

Imagine why being able to detect such phones would give such a person an
advantage...

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:M_-dnTFjv9OQVvDWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Isaac wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close
>>> proximity) get/read a cell
>>> phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I need
>>> to
>>> find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be greatly
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>> Isaac
>>>
>> I'm inclined to doubt it! Why would anyone need the model of someone
>> else's phone?? Why would the manufacturer build such a capability into
>> the phone? How could he justify the cost of doing so?
>>
>> Maybe you should start with the problem you are trying to solve!!
>
> Imagine someone is a pickpocket.
>
> Imagine someone wants to steal high value mobile phones (or the well filled
> wallets of those carrying them).
>
> Imagine why being able to detect such phones would give such a person an
> advantage...
>
>

Well, that's a good reason NOT to give phones the ability to identify
themselves to strangers. Since, AFAIK, no cell phone has this
capability, perhaps this was thought of long ago.

Thanks for your reply.

I was thinking that it might be built into phones that support various
Bluetooth devices. For example, if you had Bluetooth device (e.g., headset,
stereo headphones, larger sized remote keyboard, etc) with many options not
supported by all phones, then it could be helpful to offer the user an auto
configured profile having optimal settings for each phone model supported
(at the time) and load the one that matches there phone model.

I believe when a Bluetooth device registers with the cell phone it provides
its model number (isn't that what we see on the display when a connection is
established?). So, maybe there is a certain Bluetooth protocol that allows
that to go the other direction. I should mention that on many phones it is
almost impossible to find the model number, so such a Bluetooth device as I
describe could not rely on the user the manually entering the #, which is
why I need to have find an automatic, wireless way to get it.

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Isaac

"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:M_-dnTFjv9OQVvDWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Isaac wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close
>> proximity) get/read a cell
>> phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I need
>> to
>> find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> TIA,
>> Isaac
>>
>
> I'm inclined to doubt it! Why would anyone need the model of someone
> else's phone?? Why would the manufacturer build such a capability into
> the phone? How could he justify the cost of doing so?
>
> Maybe you should start with the problem you are trying to solve!!

that is way too devious thinking here. They would already have to know
there was a high value Smartphone within a few feet, and be ready to mug the
person. You don't need a fancy scanning device to do that, they just watch
people use there fancy phones and follow them to mug them. I don't think
that is a real issue. Please advise on your ideas, though, on the
legitimate use I as about.

thanks again,
Isaac

"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:K6Gdnf-xU702b_DWnZ2dnUVZ_shi4p2d@giganews.com...
> R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:M_-dnTFjv9OQVvDWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Isaac wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close
>>>> proximity) get/read a cell
>>>> phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I need
>>>> to
>>>> find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be greatly
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> TIA,
>>>> Isaac
>>>>
>>> I'm inclined to doubt it! Why would anyone need the model of someone
>>> else's phone?? Why would the manufacturer build such a capability into
>>> the phone? How could he justify the cost of doing so?
>>>
>>> Maybe you should start with the problem you are trying to solve!!
>>
>> Imagine someone is a pickpocket.
>>
>> Imagine someone wants to steal high value mobile phones (or the well
>> filled wallets of those carrying them).
>>
>> Imagine why being able to detect such phones would give such a person an
>> advantage...
>
> Well, that's a good reason NOT to give phones the ability to identify
> themselves to strangers. Since, AFAIK, no cell phone has this capability,
> perhaps this was thought of long ago.

On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:50:06 -0500, "Richard B. Gilbert"
<rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:

>R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:M_-dnTFjv9OQVvDWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Isaac wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close
>>>> proximity) get/read a cell
>>>> phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I need
>>>> to
>>>> find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be greatly
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> TIA,
>>>> Isaac
>>>>
>>> I'm inclined to doubt it! Why would anyone need the model of someone
>>> else's phone?? Why would the manufacturer build such a capability into
>>> the phone? How could he justify the cost of doing so?
>>>
>>> Maybe you should start with the problem you are trying to solve!!
>>
>> Imagine someone is a pickpocket.
>>
>> Imagine someone wants to steal high value mobile phones (or the well filled
>> wallets of those carrying them).
>>
>> Imagine why being able to detect such phones would give such a person an
>> advantage...
>>
>>
>
>Well, that's a good reason NOT to give phones the ability to identify
>themselves to strangers. Since, AFAIK, no cell phone has this
>capability, perhaps this was thought of long ago.


I believe that a phone reveals its model number to a web site when it
connects via its mini-browser, so it not totally implausible.that it
may do something similar via Bluetooth.

Chris

Isaac wrote:
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I was thinking that it might be built into phones that support various
> Bluetooth devices. For example, if you had Bluetooth device (e.g., headset,
> stereo headphones, larger sized remote keyboard, etc) with many options not
> supported by all phones, then it could be helpful to offer the user an auto
> configured profile having optimal settings for each phone model supported
> (at the time) and load the one that matches there phone model.
>
> I believe when a Bluetooth device registers with the cell phone it provides
> its model number (isn't that what we see on the display when a connection is
> established?). So, maybe there is a certain Bluetooth protocol that allows
> that to go the other direction. I should mention that on many phones it is
> almost impossible to find the model number, so such a Bluetooth device as I
> describe could not rely on the user the manually entering the #, which is
> why I need to have find an automatic, wireless way to get it.
>
> Any ideas?
>

I'm not familiar with Bluetooth devices. . . . I have hearing aids in
both ears so there's very little room in my life for a Bluetooth dongle.

I don't talk on the phone so much that holding it to my ear is any hardship!

YMMV!

Chris, this is very interesting. The thought had crossed my since I see
full user IP and OS/browser configuration info at the bottom of form mail
submissions off websites.

I did a quick search on this and quick found that info for the mini-browser
at:
http://www.zytrax.com/tech/web/mobile_ids.html

They call that a "Mobile Browser ID (User-Agent) Strings".

Now that you have confirmed it is possible, I need to find out if it
actually and practically doable.

Unfortunately, I did not have any luck yet finding developer level info on
Bluetooth protocol/stack . Bluetooth.org requires a high level corporate
membership to get access to the Bluetooth specification.

Do you have any tips on how I might find at least top level info that
confirms Bluetooth can do it in general, and then icing on the cake would be
to know if all cell phones (esp. those w/o Internet capability) implement it
even if it is in the general specification.

Thanks a bunch!
Isaac


"Chris Blunt" <mail@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1b4sm55u44nvdivoitms2biv88fu51dpe1@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 17:50:06 -0500, "Richard B. Gilbert"
> <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>>> "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:M_-dnTFjv9OQVvDWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Isaac wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know if there is a way to wirelessly (esp. in close
>>>>> proximity) get/read a cell
>>>>> phone's model number; e.g., maybe like by using Bluetooth, etc? I
>>>>> need
>>>>> to
>>>>> find a way to do this so any ideas or helpful pointers would be
>>>>> greatly
>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA,
>>>>> Isaac
>>>>>
>>>> I'm inclined to doubt it! Why would anyone need the model of someone
>>>> else's phone?? Why would the manufacturer build such a capability into
>>>> the phone? How could he justify the cost of doing so?
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you should start with the problem you are trying to solve!!
>>>
>>> Imagine someone is a pickpocket.
>>>
>>> Imagine someone wants to steal high value mobile phones (or the well
>>> filled
>>> wallets of those carrying them).
>>>
>>> Imagine why being able to detect such phones would give such a person an
>>> advantage...
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Well, that's a good reason NOT to give phones the ability to identify
>>themselves to strangers. Since, AFAIK, no cell phone has this
>>capability, perhaps this was thought of long ago.
>
>
> I believe that a phone reveals its model number to a web site when it
> connects via its mini-browser, so it not totally implausible.that it
> may do something similar via Bluetooth.
>
> Chris

Isaac wrote:
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> I was thinking that it might be built into phones that support various
> Bluetooth devices. For example, if you had Bluetooth device (e.g., headset,
> stereo headphones, larger sized remote keyboard, etc) with many options not
> supported by all phones, then it could be helpful to offer the user an auto
> configured profile having optimal settings for each phone model supported
> (at the time) and load the one that matches there phone model.
>
> I believe when a Bluetooth device registers with the cell phone it provides
> its model number (isn't that what we see on the display when a connection is
> established?). So, maybe there is a certain Bluetooth protocol that allows
> that to go the other direction. I should mention that on many phones it is
> almost impossible to find the model number, so such a Bluetooth device as I
> describe could not rely on the user the manually entering the #, which is
> why I need to have find an automatic, wireless way to get it.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks!
> Isaac
>

Bluetooth stacks offer several connection profiles, for eg A2DP for
stereo headphones. When 2 devices connect, they only exchange their
supported capabilities, this has nothing to do with the underlying model
or even what class of device it is.
For example, the procedure for pairing your stereo bluetooth headphones
to your bluetooth enabled laptop is no different from pairing it with
your phone.
What you see on the screen is the assigned name of the device; by
default it is the model number but can be changed to anything.
On Nokia S60, go to the app called 'About' for model no. info.


-------------------------------------
Contrary to popular belief, the world is not ASCII.
-- from the xemacs 19.12 documentation on define-key
-------------------------------------

Your input is very helpful.

I have since learned that an application may connect to a cell phone via
Bluetooth for the purpose of sending AT commands via Serial Port service
(SPS) and/or the Dial-Up Networking service (DUNS). And, to get the
make/model info we can use the command "AT+CGMI" (manufacturer) and
"AT+CGMM" (model) via an SPP (Serial Port Profile) session.

Do you happen to know if there is a way to use these AT commands without
pairing first? Or, if there is another way to get the model info without
pairing. My problem is that the application I am working on needs to first
determine if the phone is supported (i.e., by first knowing the model
number) before conditionally proceeding to the pairing process. So, I'm in a
kind of a catch-22. So, I'm hoping there is maybe some protocol whereby
basic device info can be provided as part of the initial connection
establishment steps, but before going through the security procedure and
pairing. I know that IrDA allows AT commands without pairing, but,
unfortunately, few phones have IrDA.

TIA,
Isaac

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hko2cq$ar3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>> Thanks for your reply.
>>
<snip>

>
> Bluetooth stacks offer several connection profiles, for eg A2DP for stereo
> headphones. When 2 devices connect, they only exchange their supported
> capabilities, this has nothing to do with the underlying model or even
> what class of device it is.
> For example, the procedure for pairing your stereo bluetooth headphones to
> your bluetooth enabled laptop is no different from pairing it with your
> phone.
> What you see on the screen is the assigned name of the device; by default
> it is the model number but can be changed to anything.
> On Nokia S60, go to the app called 'About' for model no. info.
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> Contrary to popular belief, the world is not ASCII.
> -- from the xemacs 19.12 documentation on define-key
> -------------------------------------

Isaac wrote:
> Your input is very helpful.
>
> I have since learned that an application may connect to a cell phone via
> Bluetooth for the purpose of sending AT commands via Serial Port service
> (SPS) and/or the Dial-Up Networking service (DUNS). And, to get the
> make/model info we can use the command "AT+CGMI" (manufacturer) and
> "AT+CGMM" (model) via an SPP (Serial Port Profile) session.
>
> Do you happen to know if there is a way to use these AT commands without
> pairing first? Or, if there is another way to get the model info without
> pairing. My problem is that the application I am working on needs to first
> determine if the phone is supported (i.e., by first knowing the model
> number) before conditionally proceeding to the pairing process. So, I'm in a
> kind of a catch-22. So, I'm hoping there is maybe some protocol whereby
> basic device info can be provided as part of the initial connection
> establishment steps, but before going through the security procedure and
> pairing. I know that IrDA allows AT commands without pairing, but,
> unfortunately, few phones have IrDA.

Unfortunately, pairing is a security procedure that essentially sets up
a device as trusted. A paired device does not require permission to
connect (all others would have to exchange a password first). This is to
prevent malicious access from unauthorized bluetooth devices.
For example, you might pair your bluetooth headset with your phone so
that it can connect automatically whenever switched on, but you wouldn't
want to allow any device access. (Lots of mobile viruses/trojans spread
via Bluetooth, so it's a good idea to keep it turned off on your phone
when not used, and keep it in 'hidden' mode when it's on- so that only
paired (trusted) devices can see it/connect)
So you can try connecting to an unpaired device, but it will alert the
owner asking for permission to connect first. Don't know how that may
interrupt what you're trying to do.


-------------------------------------
I wish I had a shilling for every senseless killing
I'd buy a government
-- NOFX, "The Decline"
-------------------------------------

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hkokr7$n7a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>> Your input is very helpful.
>>
<snip>
>> Do you happen to know if there is a way to use these AT commands without
>> pairing first? Or, if there is another way to get the model info without
>> pairing. My problem is that the application I am working on needs to
>> first
<snip>
> Unfortunately, pairing is a security procedure that essentially sets up a
> device as trusted. A paired device does not require permission to connect
> (all others would have to exchange a password first). This is to prevent
> malicious access from unauthorized bluetooth devices.
> For example, you might pair your bluetooth headset with your phone so that
> it can connect automatically whenever switched on, but you wouldn't want
> to allow any device access. (Lots of mobile viruses/trojans spread via
> Bluetooth, so it's a good idea to keep it turned off on your phone when
> not used, and keep it in 'hidden' mode when it's on- so that only paired
> (trusted) devices can see it/connect)

Thanks for the explaination. Makes sense that this is the standard
approach. However, are you aware of any kind of partial access
(i.e., "gray") security levels whereby
you don't have to do full pairing but can get authorized for limited
connectivity (like some kind of a "sandbox" mode) to at least do some basic
AT commands like make/model discovery, or is it full phone system/profile
access/control or nothing? I ask this because, as a fall back, it would be
much more acceptable to the user if my app would first confirm phone model
support without any privacy/security issues and the user then can decide on
allowing full access if there phone is supported. Maybe there are different
Bluetooth stack profiles that allow this (e.g., dial up netwoking, file
sharing, etc.). I
would think that if Bluetooth is supposed to be a generic wireless
connection protocol to support all kind of devices and 3rd party
applications it should have at least some gray levels off security access,
not just black or white.


> So you can try connecting to an unpaired device, but it will alert the
> owner asking for permission to connect first.

I have no problem with the user being alerted to accept connection
permission each time, but (at least) the 1st time needs to be a (very)
limited access mode whereby they just allow partial access, enough to permit
make/model discovery to determine if their phone is supported 1st.

>Don't know how that may interrupt what you're trying to do.

Yes, that is a huge problem b/c I need to offer the user a 100% safe (no
risk) way
to first determine if their phone is supported by my App before they decide
on allowing any (esp. full) pairing. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks a bunch,
Isaac

>
>
> -------------------------------------
> I wish I had a shilling for every senseless killing
> I'd buy a government
> -- NOFX, "The Decline"
> -------------------------------------

Isaac wrote:
> "Rex"<rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
> news:hkokr7$n7a$1@news.eternal-september.org...

>
> Thanks for the explaination. Makes sense that this is the standard
> approach. However, are you aware of any kind of partial access
> (i.e., "gray") security levels whereby
> you don't have to do full pairing but can get authorized for limited
> connectivity (like some kind of a "sandbox" mode) to at least do some basic
> AT commands like make/model discovery, or is it full phone system/profile
> access/control or nothing? I ask this because, as a fall back, it would be
> much more acceptable to the user if my app would first confirm phone model
> support without any privacy/security issues and the user then can decide on
> allowing full access if there phone is supported. Maybe there are different
> Bluetooth stack profiles that allow this (e.g., dial up netwoking, file
> sharing, etc.). I
> would think that if Bluetooth is supposed to be a generic wireless
> connection protocol to support all kind of devices and 3rd party
> applications it should have at least some gray levels off security access,
> not just black or white.

I'm not sure about a sandbox mode- all I've seen are how Nokia devices
behave when paired with other phones, headsets and laptops. I don't
quite understand what you're trying to do- access the phone as a modem
via bluetooth? PC Suite installs a Bluetooth modem driver on your
PC/laptop depending on if the stack supports it- and it appears in your
list of installed modems, so I presume it would support AT commands and
stuff.

Basically, if you've already paired your phone to your laptop and use it
with PC Suite, you shouldn't face any restrictions. (I assume the
application you are writing is a desktop application)


-------------------------------------
Sponges grow in the ocean ... that *kills* me. I wonder how much deeper the
oceans would be if that didn't happen.
-- Steven Wright
-------------------------------------

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hkpbv7$jre$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>> "Rex"<rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
>> news:hkokr7$n7a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>>
>> Thanks for the explaination. Makes sense that this is the standard
>> approach. However, are you aware of any kind of partial access
>> (i.e., "gray") security levels whereby
>> you don't have to do full pairing but can get authorized for limited
>> connectivity (like some kind of a "sandbox" mode) to at least do some
>> basic
<SNIP>
> I'm not sure about a sandbox mode- all I've seen are how Nokia devices
> behave when paired with other phones, headsets and laptops. I don't quite
> understand what you're trying to do- access the phone as a modem via
> bluetooth? PC Suite installs a Bluetooth modem driver on your PC/laptop
> depending on if the stack supports it- and it appears in your list of
> installed modems, so I presume it would support AT commands and stuff.

for this app I'm doing, for user security issues, I need for it to
automatically discover the cell phone's make/model without pairing.

>
> Basically, if you've already paired your phone to your laptop and use it
> with PC Suite, you shouldn't face any restrictions. (I assume the
> application you are writing is a desktop application)

Of course, if you pair then you can send AT commands, which can retreive the
make/model info.

Guess what... I mostly found the info I was looking for and seems to confirm
that we can retreive the make/model info w/o pairing.

Basically, what I found says that any Bluetooth device in "discoverable
mode" will transmit the following information on demand:
a.. Device name
b.. Device class
c.. List of services
d.. Technical information (for example: device features, manufacturer,
Bluetooth specification used, clock offset)
Any device may perform an inquiry to find other devices to connect to, and
any device can be configured to respond to such inquiries. However, if the
device trying to connect knows the address of the device, it always responds
to direct connection requests and transmits the information shown in the
list above if requested.

The catch is, I don't know what address they are mean in "if the device
trying to connect knows the *address* of the device"? Do you have any idea
what address they are talking about? From this explaination, if I know that
address I can query the make/model info.

Thanks!
Isaac
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> Sponges grow in the ocean ... that *kills* me. I wonder how much deeper
> the
> oceans would be if that didn't happen.
> -- Steven
> Wright
> -------------------------------------

Isaac wrote:

>
> The catch is, I don't know what address they are mean in "if the device
> trying to connect knows the *address* of the device"? Do you have any idea
> what address they are talking about? From this explaination, if I know that
> address I can query the make/model info.
>
Every Bluetooth device has a MAC address, similar to that of an
ethernet adapter. It serves as a unique identifier. I think they're
saying that if the querying and target devices are already paired, then
the querying device knows the MAC address of the target and thus also
what services supported beforehand,so it doesn't have to query each time
it connects.
On Nokia phones, type *#2820# to find the bluetooth address.



-------------------------------------
Eat right, exercise, die anyway.
-------------------------------------

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hkrpfj$gfb$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>
>>
>> The catch is, I don't know what address they are mean in "if the device
>> trying to connect knows the *address* of the device"? Do you have any
>> idea
>> what address they are talking about? From this explaination, if I know
>> that
>> address I can query the make/model info.
>>
> Every Bluetooth device has a MAC address, similar to that of an ethernet
> adapter. It serves as a unique identifier.

Yes, it is the same. However, I assume when you say "bluetooth address"
below you mean something other than the MAC address. Can you clarify this
for me?

>I think they're saying that if the querying and target devices are already
>paired, then the querying device knows the MAC address of the target and
>thus also what services supported beforehand,so it doesn't have to query
>each time it connects.

No, I don't think this can be the case. Firstly, because they were saying
that this info is provided "on demand" under the SDP (Service discovery
protocol). See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetoo...up_connections

Secondly, I know that MAC address are publicly available (w/o pairing)
because this website has public scanners and reports MAC addresses on every
discoverable Bluetooth enabled phone that passes by his many Bluetooth
sensors:
http://www.bluetoothtracking.org/

Maybe the "address" they are talking about is a certain Bluetooth stack
address, but I would not think that would be unique to the device, so it
would not make sense to me for that to be the code that enables "on demand"
delivery of the technical info (e.g., make/mode) upon a query under SDP. I
agree MAC addresses make the most sense, but the above website makes clear
that MAC addresses are always provided "on demand" w/o pairing.


> On Nokia phones, type *#2820# to find the Bluetooth address.

Very interesting. This seems very useful. Is this a general pattern? I
mean, for example, do all Nokia Bluetooth address follow this pattern, or
maybe every Nokia model has the same pattern, but is different than any
other phone model or maker?

BTW, what do you mean by "Bluetooth address"? Do you mean the network
device ID address that is shown initially during the discovery process?

Thanks again for your help!
Isaac
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> Eat right, exercise, die anyway.
> -------------------------------------

Isaac wrote:

>
> Maybe the "address" they are talking about is a certain Bluetooth stack
> address, but I would not think that would be unique to the device, so it
> would not make sense to me for that to be the code that enables "on demand"
> delivery of the technical info (e.g., make/mode) upon a query under SDP. I
> agree MAC addresses make the most sense, but the above website makes clear
> that MAC addresses are always provided "on demand" w/o pairing.
>
>
>> On Nokia phones, type *#2820# to find the Bluetooth address.
>
> Very interesting. This seems very useful. Is this a general pattern? I
> mean, for example, do all Nokia Bluetooth address follow this pattern, or
> maybe every Nokia model has the same pattern, but is different than any
> other phone model or maker?
>
> BTW, what do you mean by "Bluetooth address"? Do you mean the network
> device ID address that is shown initially during the discovery process?
>
> Thanks again for your help!
> Isaac

I'd say the Bluetooth address is quite similar to a MAC address and
serves the same purpose- it also is in the form of 6 bytes.
For an example,connect any bluetooth device to your Win XP laptop, go to
'My Bluetooth Places' and look at the properties for it- you'll see the
Bluetooth address shown there.
I'm not really aware of implementation details of stacks; but features
may differ.
My Thinkpad's bluetooth device,for example, doesn't work with the
Microsoft Bluetooth stack so I need separate drivers and software from
Lenovo.

-------------------------------------
Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite.
Islanded between the arms the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which
is the main river.
-- Cyril Connolly
-------------------------------------

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hkue5o$otl$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>
>>
<snip>
>>
>>> On Nokia phones, type *#2820# to find the Bluetooth address.
>>
>> Very interesting. This seems very useful. Is this a general pattern? I
>> mean, for example, do all Nokia Bluetooth address follow this pattern, or
>> maybe every Nokia model has the same pattern, but is different than any
>> other phone model or maker?

Hey, can you tell me about this? Is it really true that you can just type
*#2820# to find the Bluetooth addresses of *any* Nokia phone. Or, does this
just work for that particular Nokia phone model, and each model would have
its own base code?


>>
>> BTW, what do you mean by "Bluetooth address"? Do you mean the network
>> device ID address that is shown initially during the discovery process?
>>
>> Thanks again for your help!
>> Isaac
>
> I'd say the Bluetooth address is quite similar to a MAC address and serves
> the same purpose- it also is in the form of 6 bytes.
> For an example,connect any bluetooth device to your Win XP laptop, go to
> 'My Bluetooth Places' and look at the properties for it- you'll see the
> Bluetooth address shown there.
> I'm not really aware of implementation details of stacks; but features may
> differ.
> My Thinkpad's bluetooth device,for example, doesn't work with the
> Microsoft Bluetooth stack so I need separate drivers and software from
> Lenovo.

OK, this make sense.

>
> -------------------------------------
> Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite.
> Islanded between the arms the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which
> is the main river.
> -- Cyril Connolly
> -------------------------------------

Isaac wrote:
> "Rex"<rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
> news:hkue5o$otl$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Isaac wrote:
>>
>>>
> <snip>
>>>
>>>> On Nokia phones, type *#2820# to find the Bluetooth address.
>>>
>>> Very interesting. This seems very useful. Is this a general pattern? I
>>> mean, for example, do all Nokia Bluetooth address follow this pattern, or
>>> maybe every Nokia model has the same pattern, but is different than any
>>> other phone model or maker?
>
> Hey, can you tell me about this? Is it really true that you can just type
> *#2820# to find the Bluetooth addresses of *any* Nokia phone. Or, does this
> just work for that particular Nokia phone model, and each model would have
> its own base code?
>

Oh, it works across phone models. There are several more, see this
article (and the previous one linked to) for a summary:
http://www.s60tips.com/2006/08/11/so...or-s60-phones/



-------------------------------------
So welcome to the Kali Yuga of the Pandaemonaeon wherein nothing is true and
everything is permissible. For in these post-absolutist days it is better to
build upon the shifting sands than the rock which will confound you on
the day
it shatters. Philosophers have become no more than the keepers of useful
sarcasms, for the secret is out, that there is no secret of the universe.
-- Anonymous, http://www.io.com/~shub/amc/faq05.html#magick
-------------------------------------

Oh, sorry, I mistakenly thought this code was embedded inside Nokia
Bluetooth addresses, not a code to punch into the Nokia phone itself to
access information on the phone. Thanks for the feedback, but what I need
is info on how to get phone make/model info remotely over Bluetooth without
paring between the devices.

thanks,
Isaac


"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hl0rg5$4je$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>> "Rex"<rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
>> news:hkue5o$otl$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Isaac wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nokia phones, type *#2820# to find the Bluetooth address.
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting. This seems very useful. Is this a general pattern?
>>>> I
>>>> mean, for example, do all Nokia Bluetooth address follow this pattern,
>>>> or
>>>> maybe every Nokia model has the same pattern, but is different than any
>>>> other phone model or maker?
>>
>> Hey, can you tell me about this? Is it really true that you can just
>> type
>> *#2820# to find the Bluetooth addresses of *any* Nokia phone. Or, does
>> this
>> just work for that particular Nokia phone model, and each model would
>> have
>> its own base code?
>>
>
> Oh, it works across phone models. There are several more, see this article
> (and the previous one linked to) for a summary:
> http://www.s60tips.com/2006/08/11/so...or-s60-phones/
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> So welcome to the Kali Yuga of the Pandaemonaeon wherein nothing is true
> and
> everything is permissible. For in these post-absolutist days it is better
> to
> build upon the shifting sands than the rock which will confound you on the
> day
> it shatters. Philosophers have become no more than the keepers of useful
> sarcasms, for the secret is out, that there is no secret of the universe.
> -- Anonymous, http://www.io.com/~shub/amc/faq05.html#magick
> -------------------------------------

"Isaac" <groups@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4b75ac27$0$2017$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
> Oh, sorry, I mistakenly thought this code was embedded inside Nokia
> Bluetooth addresses, not a code to punch into the Nokia phone itself to
> access information on the phone. Thanks for the feedback, but what I need
> is info on how to get phone make/model info remotely over Bluetooth
> without paring between the devices.

Now why would anyone want/need that information?

--
Brian
"Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."
www.imagebus.co.uk/shop

to automatically determine if the user's phone model is supported by my
software app, before any further effort (e.g., pairing) is even bothered
with.

"Brian Watson" <Brian@imagebus.co.uk> wrote in message
news:POGdnT808-mXGevWnZ2dnUVZ8kmdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Isaac" <groups@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:4b75ac27$0$2017$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net...
>> Oh, sorry, I mistakenly thought this code was embedded inside Nokia
>> Bluetooth addresses, not a code to punch into the Nokia phone itself to
>> access information on the phone. Thanks for the feedback, but what I
>> need is info on how to get phone make/model info remotely over Bluetooth
>> without paring between the devices.
>
> Now why would anyone want/need that information?
>
> --
> Brian
> "Fight like the Devil, die like a gentleman."
> www.imagebus.co.uk/shop
>

Isaac wrote:
> to automatically determine if the user's phone model is supported by my
> software app, before any further effort (e.g., pairing) is even bothered
> with.
Isn't this a bit overcomplicated?
Here's a list of S60 OSes-
S60 initial - Nokia 7650 - released 2002. I doubt you'll find many users
now.
S60 2nd Edition - introduced 2003, famous examples- 6600,6630,N70,N90
S60 3rd Edition - introduced 2006, famous examples - Basically every non
touchscreen N and E series device.
S60 5th Edition - introduced last year, examples - N97,5800 XpressMusic, X6.

These OSes differ mainly in UI- Bluetooth would be the same for all
3rd/5th edition devices. Between them there are dozens of supported
handsets, I've merely listed the well known ones. You absolutely do NOT
need to know the phone model number for writing an application, just the
OS version, which comes in 3 flavors as above.

I'm no Symbian programmer, but I imagine you would be able to specify
the supported OS when you package your application as a SIS file; it
won't install anyway on an unsupported OS.


Besides, as I've explained, you NEED to pair and the user has to
authorize your device before you can silently request any information
from a phone- in all other cases the user is going to get a big fat prompt.

It would be better if you just test with any 3rd edition handset and
then add a disclaimer about the app working on other platforms.


-------------------------------------
"Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing."
-- Albert Einstein
-------------------------------------

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hl8ocs$e9v$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>> to automatically determine if the user's phone model is supported by my
>> software app, before any further effort (e.g., pairing) is even bothered
>> with.
> Isn't this a bit overcomplicated?
> Here's a list of S60 OSes-
> S60 initial - Nokia 7650 - released 2002. I doubt you'll find many users
<snip>
> I'm no Symbian programmer, but I imagine you would be able to specify the
> supported OS when you package your application as a SIS file; it won't
> install anyway on an unsupported OS.

Sorry to lead you astray, however, the features that my (SW and HW) app must
support wrt to the model are not OS/software relate features, but physical
phone device hardware ones. Thus, once my SW app knows the target phone's
model is supported, my HW app will know how to do its thing, or tell the
user their phone is not supported.

> Besides, as I've explained, you NEED to pair and the user has to authorize
> your device before you can silently request any information from a phone-
> in all other cases the user is going to get a big fat prompt.

The process need not be silent. I have no problem with the phone user
getting prompted to permit anything except pairing. They would not OK
pairing with my SW app, but would OK, for example, thinks like enabling
discoverability, tech info inquiries, etc. So, I need any method possible
to for my SW app to detect the target phone's model number w/o requiring
pairing. For example, it would be good, even if I could send out a BT
broadcast message (maybe via something like bluejacking or business cards)
to all devices in the vicinity (including ones with discovery mode turned
off) that they need to turn on discovery mode (or OK tech info inquiries) to
determining HW device support. Then they would enable or OK the tech info
inquiries and I would get their model # and tell them if there HW is
supported by my HW app.

<snip>

Thanks,
Isaac



> -------------------------------------
> "Sometimes one pays most for the things one gets for nothing."
> -- Albert Einstein
> -------------------------------------

Isaac wrote:
> The process need not be silent. I have no problem with the phone user
> getting prompted to permit anything except pairing. They would not OK
> pairing with my SW app, but would OK, for example, thinks like enabling
> discoverability, tech info inquiries, etc. So, I need any method possible
> to for my SW app to detect the target phone's model number w/o requiring
> pairing. For example, it would be good, even if I could send out a BT
> broadcast message (maybe via something like bluejacking or business cards)
> to all devices in the vicinity (including ones with discovery mode turned
> off) that they need to turn on discovery mode (or OK tech info inquiries) to
> determining HW device support. Then they would enable or OK the tech info
> inquiries and I would get their model # and tell them if there HW is
> supported by my HW app.
>

Well..all 3rd edition devices use the same Bluetooth 2.0 standard, older
ones might differ. Is there something else also you want to determine by
model no. ?


-------------------------------------
If you go through life with both feet planted firmly on the ground, you'll
never change your underwear.
-------------------------------------

Actually, all I need to know is the make and model number of the phone then
I would message to the user that there phone HW was supported and give
instruction on what they need to do next. Any tips on how to do this
without pairing would be most appreciated.

Thanks,
Isaac

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hlbb4l$nlj$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>> The process need not be silent. I have no problem with the phone user
>> getting prompted to permit anything except pairing. They would not OK
>> pairing with my SW app, but would OK, for example, things like enabling
>> discoverability, tech info inquiries, etc. So, I need any method
>> possible
>> to for my SW app to detect the target phone's model number w/o requiring
>> pairing. For example, it would be good, even if I could send out a BT
>> broadcast message (maybe via something like bluejacking or business
>> cards)
>> to all devices in the vicinity (including ones with discovery mode turned
>> off) that they need to turn on discovery mode (or OK tech info inquiries)
>> to
>> determining HW device support. Then they would enable or OK the tech
>> info
>> inquiries and I would get their model # and tell them if there HW is
>> supported by my HW app.
>>
>
> Well..all 3rd edition devices use the same Bluetooth 2.0 standard, older
> ones might differ. Is there something else also you want to determine by
> model no. ?
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> If you go through life with both feet planted firmly on the ground, you'll
> never change your underwear.
> -------------------------------------

Isaac wrote:
> Actually, all I need to know is the make and model number of the phone then
> I would message to the user that there phone HW was supported and give
> instruction on what they need to do next. Any tips on how to do this
> without pairing would be most appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Isaac
>

Sorry, that's all I know about Bluetooth stacks
Mobile phone browsers usually have the model name as part of the user
agent- so you could provide a WAP site and autodetect the phone model
from there.



-------------------------------------
SCSI: System Can't See It.
-------------------------------------

Unfortunately, unlike Bluetooth with 90% penetration, few phones are web
enabled w/ data plans, so I cannot count on WAP, and I think they would have
to browse to my website (which they would know easily know or do) before I'd
get a chance to grab their phone's tech info.

thanks for trying to help, though!

"Rex" <rexdudeREMOVEANDREVERSEDOMAIN@liam.ur> wrote in message
news:hlgcmp$i19$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Isaac wrote:
>> Actually, all I need to know is the make and model number of the phone
>> then
>> I would message to the user that there phone HW was supported and give
>> instruction on what they need to do next. Any tips on how to do this
>> without pairing would be most appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Isaac
>>
>
> Sorry, that's all I know about Bluetooth stacks
> Mobile phone browsers usually have the model name as part of the user
> agent- so you could provide a WAP site and autodetect the phone model from
> there.
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------
> SCSI: System Can't See It.
> -------------------------------------