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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:02 AM
iPhone 3Gold
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Posts: n/a
Default New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

The new Palm Pre, which runs on the new Web OS operating system, will
not work with older applications supported on the Palm Treo and other
smart phones.

Anyone was waiting to buy this heavy device with the smaller screen
than an iPhone simply because they would not have to buy all their
favorite Palm applications again are going to be shocked to find out
Palm has abandoned all the old Palm software. This is a whole new ball
game for Palm. Everyone will have to buy a new version of the old
software all over again from the Palm store.

You may be delighted to discover all your old Palm PDB files will open
on the iPhone if you add the iSilo software adapter which is only
$9.99, half of what it is for other platforms including Palm. iSilo
adds a server which can be turned on and off which makes it very easy
to transfer any kind of data to the iPhone and off the iPhone
wirelessly. It is only a click to add the iPhone to Vista as a
networked file server where you can do everything on the iPhone that
you can do with your local drives under Vista(except format). I can
even work on a document on the PC and save it directly to the iPhone
wirelessly in PDF format.

This iPhone simplicity makes more sense then developing a document
using a tiny keyboard when you have a full size keyboard on all PCs.

I can send a PDF to almost any kind of OS for others to view.

IsiloX can be even be used to send an entire web site to the iPhone
where you can browse it and access the local links and such without
even a web connection.
A neat trick.





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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 04:52 PM
Rbenen
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

I am an 'old'-time Palm user--pre-orderd the first Pilot!--who just
switched to the iPhone.
You would also want to look at eReader (free) for books from ereader
and Fictionwise, and also Bookshelf for Mobibook format files (non-DRM
only), text and PDF.

There's some good stuff out there!
Rbenen


On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:02:25 -0800 (PST), iPhone 3Gold
<vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote:

> New Palm Pre won't work with old apps
>
>The new Palm Pre, which runs on the new Web OS operating system, will
>not work with older applications supported on the Palm Treo and other
>smart phones.
>
>Anyone was waiting to buy this heavy device with the smaller screen
>than an iPhone simply because they would not have to buy all their
>favorite Palm applications again are going to be shocked to find out
>Palm has abandoned all the old Palm software. This is a whole new ball
>game for Palm. Everyone will have to buy a new version of the old
>software all over again from the Palm store.
>
>You may be delighted to discover all your old Palm PDB files will open
>on the iPhone if you add the iSilo software adapter which is only
>$9.99, half of what it is for other platforms including Palm. iSilo
>adds a server which can be turned on and off which makes it very easy
>to transfer any kind of data to the iPhone and off the iPhone
>wirelessly. It is only a click to add the iPhone to Vista as a
>networked file server where you can do everything on the iPhone that
>you can do with your local drives under Vista(except format). I can
>even work on a document on the PC and save it directly to the iPhone
>wirelessly in PDF format.
>
>This iPhone simplicity makes more sense then developing a document
>using a tiny keyboard when you have a full size keyboard on all PCs.
>
>I can send a PDF to almost any kind of OS for others to view.
>
>IsiloX can be even be used to send an entire web site to the iPhone
>where you can browse it and access the local links and such without
>even a web connection.
>A neat trick.
>
>
>


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:22 PM
4phun
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

On Jan 12, 1:34*pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

>
> No, what makes more sense is having the OPTION of entering data when and
> where it's most convenient, whether that's at home in front of real
> keyboard, or mobile when you actually get the data.
>


Well lets see. I enter data on the iPhone with my voice or by using
the camera. I don't bother with the keyboard most of the time.

The voice notes can be converted to text using a voice to text
application. The camera notes can be converted to text with another
popular application.

Google and Vindago and many other ways are available to allow voice to
be instantly converted to a search of the web or contacts or whatever.

Amazon allows a picture of any object to be queried to see if they
have more information or even to sell something like it.

Now the bit about PDF is that on the iPhone PDF's can have numerous
pictures and active links that jump around the file in the blink of
an eye for more information. All of this is compatible with stretch
and zoom, auto scrolling and a world of other nice options that are
unusable on previous smartphones due to their poor hardware or OS
platform.

And Todd don't think you can blow smoke I have been using them all
since anything was available years ago.

Apple got it right for the first time with their iPod Touch and
iPhone. All that other crap about creating documents or the latest
novel on a phone are from people who like the old status quo and can
not think about what really is needed in real life.

BTW the Palm Pre is nothing more than web widgets which the iPhone
first had last year and made people like you sick.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:34 PM
Rbenen
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

And Dataviz Documents to Go will be out for the iPhone soon--it should
allow the same editing that they did on Palm.
(Oh, and DDH HandDBase for database work).

It's a *different* way of looking at the world from Palm, and we don't
know what the new Palm will bring. I'm not sorry I switched to the
iPhone!
RBenen

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:22:15 -0800 (PST), 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Jan 12, 1:34*pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> No, what makes more sense is having the OPTION of entering data when and
>> where it's most convenient, whether that's at home in front of real
>> keyboard, or mobile when you actually get the data.
>>

>
>Well lets see. I enter data on the iPhone with my voice or by using
>the camera. I don't bother with the keyboard most of the time.
>
>The voice notes can be converted to text using a voice to text
>application. The camera notes can be converted to text with another
>popular application.
>
>Google and Vindago and many other ways are available to allow voice to
>be instantly converted to a search of the web or contacts or whatever.
>
>Amazon allows a picture of any object to be queried to see if they
>have more information or even to sell something like it.
>
>Now the bit about PDF is that on the iPhone PDF's can have numerous
>pictures and active links that jump around the file in the blink of
>an eye for more information. All of this is compatible with stretch
>and zoom, auto scrolling and a world of other nice options that are
>unusable on previous smartphones due to their poor hardware or OS
>platform.
>
>And Todd don't think you can blow smoke I have been using them all
>since anything was available years ago.
>
>Apple got it right for the first time with their iPod Touch and
>iPhone. All that other crap about creating documents or the latest
>novel on a phone are from people who like the old status quo and can
>not think about what really is needed in real life.
>
>BTW the Palm Pre is nothing more than web widgets which the iPhone
>first had last year and made people like you sick.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:31 PM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

At 12 Jan 2009 11:22:15 -0800 4phun wrote:

> > No, what makes more sense is having the OPTION of entering data
> > when and where it's most convenient, whether that's at home in
> > front of real keyboard, or mobile when you actually get the data.
> >

>
> Well lets see. I enter data on the iPhone with my voice or by using
> the camera. I don't bother with the keyboard most of the time.


You can't speak or snap edits into an existing document.

> The voice notes can be converted to text using a voice to text
> application. The camera notes can be converted to text with another
> popular application.



Then you can cut and paste all these fragments into your documents when
you get in front of a real computer and reupload it into your phone
again, then the cycle continues- how convenient.

> Google and Vindago and many other ways are available to allow voice to
> be instantly converted to a search of the web or contacts or whatever.


That's a nice feature- I have no problem with that. What I have a
problem with are your continual announcements of ancient, commonly
available, technology _finally_ added to the iPhone as if something
wonderful was just invented. The iPhone does many things well, but it's
hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up where
it's lacking.


> Now the bit about PDF is that on the iPhone PDF's can have numerous
> pictures and active links that jump around the file in the blink of
> an eye for more information. All of this is compatible with stretch
> and zoom, auto scrolling and a world of other nice options that are
> unusable on previous smartphones due to their poor hardware or OS
> platform.


PDF support on other devices is certainly lackluster- no argument there.
But mobile PDFs are good for static reference info only, not documents
that require constant updating.

> And Todd don't think you can blow smoke I have been using them all
> since anything was available years ago.



No one could even notice my smoke in the fog you're continually creating...


> Apple got it right for the first time with their iPod Touch and
> iPhone.


No, they got it half-right. Just a different half than everyone else
did. Palm, Blackberry and Windows Mobile have the features but a lacking
UI. Apple nailed the UI, and left out the features that would benefit
from it.

> All that other crap about creating documents or the latest
> novel on a phone are from people who like the old status quo and can
> not think about what really is needed in real life.


No one is suggesting people create huge documents on a phone, but
pretending no one revises a Word doc or updates a few cells in a
spredsheet is pure apologism. Go look on Dataviz's forums and see how
many iPhone users are BEGGING them to port Docs-to-Go to the iPhone.
(Which will still be a lackluster implementation since you wouldn't be
able to email the docs unless DataViz runs one of those "convenient"
servers you couldstore documents on and link to, to get the docs on and
off the phone.)

> BTW the Palm Pre is nothing more than web widgets which the iPhone
> first had last year and made people like you sick.


Still does. However, the irony is how many times that first year we
heard the iPologists tell us how widgets were preferable to installable
apps...

....until the iPhone finally got installable apps.

Similarly, all this "old status quo" BS will evaporate when the iPhone
(inevitably) gets editable Office Doc support.

Then you'll be here telling everyone what a slick "new" idea that is, and
the wonderful new era in mobile computing we're entering because of it...




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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 11:44 PM
The Bob
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> amazed us all with the following in
news:3b249d18-7ec7-4190-8258-9abbe54b4e07@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com:


>
> And Todd don't think you can blow smoke I have been using them all
> since anything was available years ago.
>


Only if you were using them from the cradle.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:18 AM
4phun
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

On Jan 12, 6:44*pm, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> amazed us all with the following innews:3b249d18-7ec7-4190-8258-9abbe54b4e07@s9g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > And Todd don't think you can blow smoke I have been using them all
> > since anything was available years ago.

>
> Only if you were using them from the cradle.


Be your cradle Todd, not mine, I am retired.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:50 AM
SMS
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

Todd Allcock wrote:

> That's a nice feature- I have no problem with that. What I have a
> problem with are your continual announcements of ancient, commonly
> available, technology _finally_ added to the iPhone as if something
> wonderful was just invented. The iPhone does many things well, but it's
> hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up where
> it's lacking.


Remember, the iPhone was never designed to be a PDA. It _is_ actually
very difficult for the developers to create seemingly simple
applications on the iPhone platform. I.e., cut and paste, and editing
Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
sought after applications in extremely high demand so if it was trivial
for the developers to create these applications they would have been
available long before now.

The iPhone was designed to be a phone, web access devices, and
music/video player. Turning it into a PDA or SmartPhone is going to take
a couple of more generations.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:23 AM
4phun
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

Dan Dilger's take on the Palm Pre
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0...ors-new-phone/

Palm Pre: The Emperor’s New Phone

January 12th, 2009

Daniel Eran Dilger

Palm impressed CES attendees this year with the unveiling of a new
smartphone OS and prototype hardware called the Palm Pre. Given the
low expectations set for the firm, the demos drew applause. But why?
Imagine a company announcing a new smartphone that blew away the
current state of the art and ushered in a totally revamped user
interface with intuitive touch control. That would merit applause. Now
wait two years and duplicate the same demo, with missing functionality
and lots of important details still unreleased, including the phone’s
price. Why should this receive any applause at all, pity?

Palm simply showed up with a copycat iPhone interface two years late.
But that isn’t the most egregiously lame part of the Pre’s
introduction. Imagine now a different scenario: a new phone with a
radical new approach to UI and mobile software is given an open, web
standards-based SDK and developers are invited to write cool new
applets for the device. Everyone groans and registers a wintery volley
of discontent, complaining that without a native SDK, they’d rather
develop for other platforms.

That of course was the iPhone in the fall of 2007, before Apple
released its Cocoa-based development tools that allowed developers to
write actual apps, not just Widget-like JavaScript applets.



Palm’s webOS.

So now Palm scrambles out a demo of a Linux phone running what is
essentially a Dashboard layer of browser widgets written in HTML and
JavaScript, and CES pundits hail the project as a phenomenal wonderful
development, even though the company hasn’t released any details on
how to actually develop those supposedly wide open apps outside of a
small, closed subset of developers.

This is just another gagging example of how the tech media can
complain about the downsides of getting Christmas ponies from Apple
while marveling at the potential of diamonds from the chunks of coal
thrown at them by other tech companies.

At the same time, Palm’s supposedly marvelous Pre has been associated
with the fact that a handful of Palm’s employees once worked at Apple,
which they suggest should help make the new Palm device magical.
What’s up with these schizophrenic sycophants?



The software

Palm calls its web development framework Mojo. It has revealed enough
information to make it clear that this is plainly widget level
development. There’s nothing really wrong with that; I suggested that
Apple’s best bet in delivering early apps for the iPhone would be to
create a widget sandbox for its web developers so they could run
standalone widget-like web apps.

The development community laughed that idea off the table. They
demanded nothing short of full access to the Cocoa frameworks Apple
itself was using on the iPhone to build its own apps. Apple delivered,
creating what has since come to be a blockbuster development program
that has attracted massive development resources and resulted in the
kind of revenues that are sustaining the development of hundreds of
significant new apps from major publishers and indies alike.

Palm is playing a different game, relying on HTML5-style, freestanding
web applets that can talk to the device’s internal contact, calendar,
and location services via JSON messaging. The web browser Palm showed
off on the Pre is based on WebKit, and borrows a lot of the UI and
behavior from Mobile Safari. It’s great Palm has joined Nokia and
Google’s Android to avail itself of the existing WebKit code that is
quickly emerging as the standard for mobile devices, but clearly
Palm’s browser is not a JavaScript plus HTML applet; it’s a native app
just like the iPhone’s Mobile Safari. In fact, it appears that the
Pre’s entire public SDK environment is based upon its WebKit browser
engine.

The apps

The Pre applets Palm is trying to all but pass off as equivalents to
iPhone apps are not real applications at all but just a mobile version
of desktop widgets. If you’re wondering why Palm didn’t trot out EA,
Sega and a series of other developers to show their games for the new
Pre, suffice it to say they’re not going to be building anything
approaching the more demanding iPhone apps as HTML widgets for the
Pre.

That might not upset Palm’s user base, which is used to running fairly
simple, single-tasking cell phone software apps for the archaic Palm
OS. The move to an widget environment that can run “multiple widgets
at once” might be seen as an improvement for Palm OS users who have
never been able to run two apps concurrently, but sorry I have to
throw up a little at the painfully strained attempt by Palm to present
the Pre as more advanced than the fully multitasking, but third party-
restricted iPhone OS environment.

The iPhone runs real apps and processes concurrently, it just doesn’t
allow third parties to install background servers and apps that refuse
to shutdown when the user hits the home button. That’s not a “missing
feature” that can be improved upon with competitive bullet point
marketing fluff, it’s a purposeful engineering decision Apple made
that might someday be answered by the availability of greater
resources. Palm’s Pre doesn’t solve any new problems in multitasking,
it just does less while advertising that it does more.

iPhone 2.0 SDK: The No Multitasking Myth


The user base

Legacy Palm users might be entirely happy with basic widget-like
applets. It also may be a significant improvement for owners of
Windows Mobile-based Palm devices. The biggest problem for Palm is
that its installed base has shrunk to the point of embarrassment. It
has no excited, loyal group of customers to upgrade.

Imagine if Apple had lost its iPod empire to Sony and other MP3 makers
back in 2005. Had that happened, Apple would never have been able to
win back dominance in that market. The same story is there for Palm.
It might bounce back from relative obscurity to become another
Motorola, but it will never win back its one-time position as the
dominant maker of smartphones, at least in the US, which it had in the
nearly part of the decade. The company voluntarily abdicated that
position through sheer incompetence.

Palm is a lot like Apple in some ways. And Apple did rebound from a
pathetic Palm-like position in the mid 90s to become a hardware
powerhouse today. However, Apple’s Mac sales never went away, they
just remained static and therefore began to pale in significance with
the explosive growth of PCs sold around them. Apple bounced back in
part by augmenting its Mac sales with the iPod, and it continues to
branch out in new areas, adding to its core businesses while
strengthening its Mac position.

Palm has not only suffered from the emergence a wider, more diverse
smartphone market like Apple did in the PC market, but has lost all
relevance as a proprietary hardware vendor because everybody stopped
buying Palm devices. The company has no sales to rescue its future. It
has now obsolesced its existing Palm OS and Windows CE platforms,
rather than augmenting them with a separate successful product. The
last attempt to actually add to its core business was last years’
failed Foleo concept.

The Egregious Incompetence of Palm

The hardware

Now take a look at the Pre itself. It’s just over twice as thick as
the iPhone 3G. If that doesn’t have you drooling, perhaps you’re not
among the smartphone users who value clunky crap built by HTC. Again:
the iPhone is .33 inches thick, the Pre is .67 inches. Wow. In weight,
the two are about the same however. That means the iPhone feels solid
and is well built, while the Pre is the typical HTC smartphone design
where large amounts of dead air are engulfed by a cheap plastic
fenders.

In part, this kind of construction is there to accommodate the Pre’s
replaceable battery, which Palm hailed as an implied improvement over
the iPhone. It’s not. In years of Palm Treo ownership, the only time I
ever needed to replace the battery was after yanking it out to kill
the thing after it crashed. Apple is progressively proving that the
pundits are wrong: replaceable batteries are really a feature only in
the mind of people who can’t accept new ideas.

The Pre’s screen has the same resolution as the iPhone but is slightly
smaller. There’s a slide out Treo-style chicklet keyboard, but
apparently no provision for onscreen input at all. That means, like
Android, every time you ever want to enter a character, you’ll need to
slide the keyboard down and start thumb typing, except your key
targets will be far tinier than even the mini-keyboards of phones like
the Android-based G1.

There’s no stylus, so all existing Palm OS owners considering the Pre
will have to forget everything they know and learn how to use an
iPhone, without the iPhone’s software library, without its media
playback, without its industrial design, and so on. Why not just get
an iPhone? Is the allure of the Pre solely tied to Sprint’s amazing
customer service or Palm’s long history of competitive software update
prowess?

Stick to your knitting

Remember when the tech media fawned over the BlackBerry Storm,
assuming that if RIM could build those popular BlackBerry pager
devices, it must also be able to deliver an full screen, touch-based
iPhone clone that its satisfied pager customers would flock towards to
upgrade? The problem was that RIM wasn’t very good at building an
iPhone clone because its core competencies lied elsewhere, and its
current BlackBerry users didn’t rush to the Storm because they were
BlackBerry owners, not aspiring iPhone users.

Well get ready for the same thing to happen again. Palm makes stylus
PDAs with mobile phone features. So now its going to crank out an
iPhone clone and suddenly deliver an experience comparable to Apple,
despite having no particular experience in digital media sales or
media playback, no history in developing a sophisticated operating
system, no business acumen in challenging the status quo of the
smartphone industry, no proven ability to maintain desktop software,
and a developer relations program that has been on life support for
years, without any real forward momentum in development technology
despite its doodling with Linux, PalmOS enhancements, Windows Mobile
tailoring, and even the purchase of BeOS?

Palm has to do something, and the Pre is a nice demo from the company.
It isn’t anything very novel or pioneering though. It smacks a lot of
last year’s Microsoft Surface: an attempt to take credit for existing
technology in a desperate bid to restore some shine to a battered
brand. However, it comes across as a bald man’s combover. Who is Palm
trying to fool with this nonsense that the Pre is amazing because it
accommodates a battery and runs multiple widgets “at once,” just not
at the same time?

Even worse, more than a few pundits have been duped into gushing
accolades over the Pre, as if there’s a lot to be impressed about.
It’s more than a bit early to suggest that Palm has caught up to
Apple, since all the Pre is so far is a nice demo. At the same time,
there are a few clever innovations on the Pre, including its gesture
bar, which replaces the typical, unimaginative, and clumsy joystick
navigation common to clunky HTC-style smartphones with a touch
sensitive panel outside the screen that responds to swipes in order to
go back.

Palm suggests this helps make the Pre more suitable for one-handed
operation, but then how does one type on those tiny chicklet keys with
one hand? Like the Surface, the Pre demo shows off a lot of things
very carefully in a fashion that skips over some important details.
What about the serious omissions this phone doesn’t handle?

Scratching the Surface of Microsoft’s New Table PC
Microsoft Surface: the Fine Clothes of a Naked Empire

Copy and paste
Palm has remixed a few iPhone features to make them different and
arguably improved (such as a fancier view of tabs in the browser, or
integrated mail and instant messenger inboxes), but it isn’t so tough
to tweak an existing system that already defined how the standard
human interface should work; Microsoft essentially did the same thing
when it introduced Windows as ‘almost as good as a Mac.’

The difference then was that the Mac of the mid 90s was too expensive,
and Microsoft held a monopoly with DOS. In this version, Palm is
intending to sell the Pre for more, not less, than the iPhone, and it
has no position of market power to force its clone into the
mainstream. Good luck with that, Palm.
And the Pre is a shameless clone; Palm has copied the iPhone’s design
down to even minor details, from oval number badges to many of its
icons. This isn’t innovation as much as imitation. The iPhone is a
good starting place, so there’s nothing really wrong with copying the
elements it got right. What’s really wrong with the Pre is that in
areas where Palm has introduced something new, it has created a bland,
flat interface that appears minimal but is really just lacking.

Everything on the iPhone is action oriented. It’s very easy to know
what to do because every screen only offers to do a few things with
large, distinctive targets. The Pre’s demonstrated user interface
tends to overload the screen with layers of icons and fields that are
not sharply outlined, but instead all blandly grey so nothing jumps
out as actionable, while everything actually is. It’s minimal looking,
but really just busy in a quietly noisy sort of way. It’s the kind of
interface where you have to read the entire screen to figure out what
to do next.

And now the tricky part

Even if this was an amazing device, how could Palm possibly sell it
successfully? Who is going to pay a premium (rumored to be $399) for
an iPhone clone that doesn’t do much of what the iPhone does?

How is Palm going to find any attention for a new mobile software
platform in the shadow of the iPhone when RIM’s BlackBerry, Google’s
Android partners, Nokia’s Symbian, and Microsoft’s Windows Mobile
licensees are already desperately hungry for any remaining market
share in the emerging mobile software business that Apple brought to
life?

Palm has accomplished step one in defeating Apple: introducing copycat
hardware that apes some of the iPhone’s features. Considering the
waves of similarly ineffectual iPod-killers that washed up dead on
Apple’s shores over the last 7 years, that’s not enough to claim
victory.

The real test will come when Palm reveals how well it can execute in
copying Apple’s business acumen, marketing savvy, customer support,
ongoing software development, security refreshes, and industrial
design enhancements. In those areas, Palm’s track record is worse than
the American car makers. Perhaps the company should proactively hit up
President Bush for a billion dollar bailout before he leaves office.


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:38 AM
iPhone 3Gold
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

On Jan 12, 6:31*pm, Todd Allcock <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>The iPhone does many things well, but it's
>hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up where
>it's lacking.


So what is your point? Each day there are hundreds of new apps that
address some ones need. Needs are being addressed by the iPhone
platform and not on existing sub par hardware that few really want.

Each day the iPhone platform becomes more and more desirable to more
people who have hesitated at first.

Face it, Apple is on a roll. Palm Pre is far behind with little hope
of catching up. I doubt they can even catch up to Rim which is also
fairly far behind the iPhone.


No wonder the biggest carriers AT&T and Verizon didn't want a Palm Pre
and Palm had to go with Sprint.







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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 04:04 AM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

At 12 Jan 2009 18:38:32 -0800 iPhone 3Gold wrote:

> >The iPhone does many things well, but it's
> >hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up

where
> >it's lacking.

>
> So what is your point? Each day there are hundreds of new apps that
> address some ones need. Needs are being addressed by the iPhone
> platform and not on existing sub par hardware that few really want.



My point is simply that other than pretty nifty games, most of those
"needs" are already available on other platforms, hence "catch up."


> Each day the iPhone platform becomes more and more desirable to more
> people who have hesitated at first.


Apple found a huge market- a combo iPod phone/smartphone for dummies- I'm
not suggesting it's a bad product or even picking on it, as much as I'm
picking on you for trotting out every new catch-up app as some sort of
revelation.

> Face it, Apple is on a roll. Palm Pre is far behind with little hope
> of catching up. I doubt they can even catch up to Rim which is also
> fairly far behind the iPhone.



No argument here. The Pre is too little to late, unless it lauches with
an "old Palm" emulator to provide a clean upgrade path for loyal Palm OS
holdouts.




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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 05:22 AM
g
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 12 Jan 2009 18:38:32 -0800 iPhone 3Gold wrote:
>
>>> The iPhone does many things well, but it's
>>> hilarious to see how hard developers have to work to play catch-up

> where
>>> it's lacking.

>> So what is your point? Each day there are hundreds of new apps that
>> address some ones need. Needs are being addressed by the iPhone
>> platform and not on existing sub par hardware that few really want.

>
>
> My point is simply that other than pretty nifty games, most of those
> "needs" are already available on other platforms, hence "catch up."


and more fundamentally, which of the really nifty 3G apps can find a
network that covers a large percentage of the physical area of the US to
run on? Not AT&T's anyway, it looks like a mild case of acne on a map
of the US..... really not anybody's if real 3G or 4G is required.

g

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:19 AM
nospam
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Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

In article <XuSal.8849$pr6.5092@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, SMS
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> It _is_ actually
> very difficult for the developers to create seemingly simple
> applications on the iPhone platform.


it's actually quite simple.

> I.e., cut and paste, and editing
> Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
> sought after applications in extremely high demand


what in the world gave you that idea?

> so if it was trivial
> for the developers to create these applications they would have been
> available long before now.


or it could be that there's very little demand for it.

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 06:45 PM
Todd Allcock
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Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps


"nospam" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:120120092219067201%nospam@nospam.invalid...
> In article <XuSal.8849$pr6.5092@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, SMS
> <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> It _is_ actually
>> very difficult for the developers to create seemingly simple
>> applications on the iPhone platform.

>
> it's actually quite simple.


While the actual coding for the iPhone might be comparitively simple,
dealing with the phone's security restrictions seem less so. The
"sandboxing" of each app's data files make relatively simple concepts
difficult to execute. Take AirShare- a nice app that allows WiFi file
transfer and a document viewer in one application. Ask yourself why that's
one app and not two- simple: a standalone file transfer app wouldn't be able
to access the stored documents of the file viewing app, so they need to be
integrated. Therefore, any Docs-To-Go type app like DataViz is apparently
working on will have to integrate it's own (redundant) file transfer
mechanisms, and be unable to access docs emailed to the phone, and be unable
to email edited documents to anyone directly, seriously limiting it's
usefulness. I suspect that they will employ a cloud-based "Google Docs"
type solution, so users can receive and send links to the files via email
rather than email the documents themselves, or just leave email out of the
mix, which essentially turns its back on the way most people work with
mobile documents. There's not much point to editing a document "on the run"
if you then have to get back to your desk to copy it to your computer before
emailing it. Quickoffice just announced their spreadsheet program last
week. It edits Excel documents and transfers them to/fro the phone via WiFi
(surprise!), or via MobileMe's cloud-based drive, but conspicously _not_ via
email. "Simple!"

Similarly, any cut and paste app can't cut and paste between 3rd-party apps,
since you can't store the clipboard contents anywhere on the device it'd be
accessable to the next app. Any workable third-party CnP solution will
likely also have to be cloud-based, so a remote server can be used as an
"iPhone-legal" storage medium for the clipboard data. "Simple?" Hardly.

iPhone app development seems decidedly Java-like, since apps have to run
within the constraints of the device's sandbox made available to the app.
Like with Java, access to the internet or the file system is controlled by
the phone's security policies, but at least with (most) Java phones, users
are allowed to grant permission to do either. This seriously limits the
usefulness of many apps. Alternative PIM managers/extenders are made
difficult on the iPhone since Apple allows access to a Phonebook API, but
not to the Calendar. Other oft-requested/convenient apps are simply
verboten by policy, i.e. a alternate "real" GPS app that gives turn-by-turn
realtime directions, or works offline, or alternative media players with
support for more file formats.


>> I.e., cut and paste, and editing
>> Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
>> sought after applications in extremely high demand

>
> what in the world gave you that idea?


While the number of folks desiring a mobile Office app is probably mostly
limited to business users, you can't seriously argue that cut-and-paste
isn't a demanded feature. The large number of blog posts requesting them,
and the online surveys and polls seem to make that a no-brainer- take
http://technologizer.com/2008/09/30/...atisfaction/3/, for example,
that polled over 2000 iPhone users (mostly Mac owners.)

>> so if it was trivial
>> for the developers to create these applications they would have been
>> available long before now.

>
> or it could be that there's very little demand for it.


Yeah, that's probably it. Super Monkey Ball is really the only thing any
high-end phone truly needs...




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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 07:50 PM
iPhone 3Gold
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

On Jan 13, 1:45*pm, "Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
> "nospam" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:120120092219067201%nospam@nospam.invalid...
>
> > In article <XuSal.8849$pr6.5...@flpi149.ffdc.sbc.com>, SMS
> > <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:

>


> >> I.e., cut and paste, and editing
> >> Office documents are still not available. Clearly these are highly
> >> sought after applications in extremely high demand

>
> > what in the world gave you that idea?

>
> While the number of folks desiring a mobile Office app is probably mostly
> limited to business users, you can't seriously argue that cut-and-paste
> isn't a demanded feature. *The large number of blog posts requesting them,
> and the online surveys and polls seem to make that a no-brainer- takehttp://technologizer.com/2008/09/30/iphone-satisfaction/3/, for example,


Yes and 95% of those posts were probably from Larry.
I don't miss cut and paste.




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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:09 PM
Todd Allcock
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps



> > While the number of folks desiring a mobile Office app is probably
> > mostly
> > limited to business users, you can't seriously argue that cut-and-paste
> > isn't a demanded feature. The large number of blog posts requesting
> > them,
> > and the online surveys and polls seem to make that a no-brainer-
> > takehttp://technologizer.com/2008/09/30/iphone-satisfaction/3/, for
> > example,

>
> Yes and 95% of those posts were probably from Larry.
> I don't miss cut and paste.



Somehow, I get the feeling you don't miss anything Apple tells you you
really don't need... ;-)

Besides, just because you don't miss it doesn't mean others don't either...

http://blog.laptopmag.com/blackberry...es-limitations

The above, of course, is presented as the absolutely worthless anecdotal
evidence it is... Much like a certain "iPhone/Android Bar Fight" gem you
posted last week!
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.cellular.attws/browse_thread/thread/9d048d94c434033c?>





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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 04:40 PM
SMS
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

Todd Allcock wrote:

>> or it could be that there's very little demand for it.

>
> Yeah, that's probably it. Super Monkey Ball is really the only thing
> any high-end phone truly needs...


It's a chicken and egg thing actually. Since the iPhone lacks some of
the most rudimentary features of a Smart Phone and PDA, businesses don't
deploy them, so the demand for those features is less than it would
otherwise be.

With iPhone sales way down, maybe Apple will decide to make the
necessary changes in the next generation to make it more business-user
friendly.

"http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/13/citigroup_says_slow_iphone_sales_may_spur_early_re fresh.html"

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2009, 12:39 AM
Marc Heusser
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Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps

In article <Syobl.1159$PE4.799@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> It's a chicken and egg thing actually. Since the iPhone lacks some of
> the most rudimentary features of a Smart Phone and PDA,


such as?

> businesses don't deploy them, so the demand for those features is less than it would
> otherwise be.


Don't they? :-)

Marc

--
remove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail
<http://www.heusser.com>

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2009, 11:17 AM
Calab
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Default Re: New Palm Pre won't work with old apps



"Marc Heusser" <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invali d> wrote in
message news:marc.heusser-56A6B9.01395415012009@news.uzh.ch...
> In article <Syobl.1159$PE4.799@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>,
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's a chicken and egg thing actually. Since the iPhone lacks some of
>> the most rudimentary features of a Smart Phone and PDA,

>
> such as?


Voice dialing

Cut/Paste

AD2P audio streaming

The iPhone rocks! But I wouldn't have bought one if I knew what I know now.


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