> > If you people don't want an iPhone, and hate them so much, why are you
> > all going out of your way to try and dismiss them as garbage? Just don't
> > get one and enjoy whatever phone you have and move on.
>
> I'm not, but I'm really sick and fucking tired of people posting all the
> iPhone crap in newsgroups dedicated to CARRIERS WHOSE NETWORKS THE iPHONE
> WON'T EVEN RUN ON.
yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple enters a
market, it will take over that market. do you use a PC? yes or you
wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that. ever used
a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to thank for that.
ever use the world wide web? you have steve jobs to thank for that? and
on and on... basically your understanding of what the iphone is... IS
naive.
you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
what we are talking about now.
> Alt.cellular.cingular, OK. Alt.cellular.tmobile, OK, at least it's the
> same technology. .verizon, .sprintpcs, .alltel - come on, those customers
> couldn't use a GSM iPhone even if it was unlocked. I've seen posts in all
> of those newsgroups. .nokia? Why? So some drooling Apple fanboy can tell us
> all how much Nokia sucks?
they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by the
iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15 years.
There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just don't have the
resources to build fine quality, tiny phones. they just don't have the
experience or depth of knowledge that Apple has in this area.
> My take is that the iPhone is cool. I wouldn't buy one, but I can understand
> why other people might. But several newsgroups have been overrun by iPhone
> posts. It's obnoxious. Go away already; many (most?) of us don't care.
Ah, but the iPhone has only been out for 120 days and still in Version
1, there will be a series of about 20 more models over the next 5 years,
so at some point you'll understand what we are talking about and join in
the party. Until then, you can complain all you want, but the iPhone
will grow and grow until it takes over the entire cell industry.
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:15:16 -0600, Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com>
wrote:
>Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>> > If you people don't want an iPhone, and hate them so much, why are you
>> > all going out of your way to try and dismiss them as garbage? Just don't
>> > get one and enjoy whatever phone you have and move on.
>>
>> I'm not, but I'm really sick and fucking tired of people posting all the
>> iPhone crap in newsgroups dedicated to CARRIERS WHOSE NETWORKS THE iPHONE
>> WON'T EVEN RUN ON.
>
>yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple enters a
>market, it will take over that market. do you use a PC? yes or you
>wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that. ever used
>a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to thank for that.
>ever use the world wide web? you have steve jobs to thank for that? and
>on and on... basically your understanding of what the iphone is... IS
>naive.
>
>you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
>makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
>what we are talking about now.
The Apple iPhone runs great on WiFi, now with ever easier availability
of free WiFi. It was Apple that first put 802.11 wireless
networking/Internet into their computers as standard, using Lucent
technology then and now called "Airport". My 7 year old Pismo laptop
still works great; try and find a working 7 year old Compaq laptop.
Apple was first with Sony's 3 1/2 floppy disks in 1984
and first with Office networked desktop computers also in 1984.
The overpriced Lisa doesn't count
As much as Apple's Laser Writer in 1986 pushed the envelope
for shared Laser Printers that did more than Courier font,
I thought Adobe had something to do with fonts.
>
>> Alt.cellular.cingular, OK. Alt.cellular.tmobile, OK, at least it's the
>> same technology. .verizon, .sprintpcs, .alltel - come on, those customers
>> couldn't use a GSM iPhone even if it was unlocked. I've seen posts in all
>> of those newsgroups. .nokia? Why? So some drooling Apple fanboy can tell us
>> all how much Nokia sucks?
>
>they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by the
>iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15 years.
>There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just don't have the
>resources to build fine quality, tiny phones. they just don't have the
>experience or depth of knowledge that Apple has in this area.
>
>> My take is that the iPhone is cool. I wouldn't buy one, but I can understand
>> why other people might. But several newsgroups have been overrun by iPhone
>> posts. It's obnoxious. Go away already; many (most?) of us don't care.
>
>Ah, but the iPhone has only been out for 120 days and still in Version
>1, there will be a series of about 20 more models over the next 5 years,
>so at some point you'll understand what we are talking about and join in
>the party. Until then, you can complain all you want, but the iPhone
>will grow and grow until it takes over the entire cell industry.
>
>-
In news:colalovesmacs-78C6BB.01151624102007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net,
Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com>spewed forth:
> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>>> If you people don't want an iPhone, and hate them so much, why are
>>> you all going out of your way to try and dismiss them as garbage?
>>> Just don't get one and enjoy whatever phone you have and move on.
>>
>> I'm not, but I'm really sick and fucking tired of people posting all
>> the iPhone crap in newsgroups dedicated to CARRIERS WHOSE NETWORKS
>> THE iPHONE WON'T EVEN RUN ON.
>
> yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple
> enters a market, it will take over that market. do you use a PC? yes
> or you wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that.
> ever used a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to
> thank for that. ever use the world wide web? you have steve jobs to
> thank for that? and on and on... basically your understanding of what
> the iphone is... IS naive.
>
> you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
> makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
> what we are talking about now.
>
>> Alt.cellular.cingular, OK. Alt.cellular.tmobile, OK, at least it's
>> the
>> same technology. .verizon, .sprintpcs, .alltel - come on, those
>> customers couldn't use a GSM iPhone even if it was unlocked. I've
>> seen posts in all of those newsgroups. .nokia? Why? So some drooling
>> Apple fanboy can tell us all how much Nokia sucks?
>
> they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by
> the iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15
> years. There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just
> don't have the resources to build fine quality, tiny phones. they
> just don't have the experience or depth of knowledge that Apple has
> in this area.
>
>> My take is that the iPhone is cool. I wouldn't buy one, but I can
>> understand why other people might. But several newsgroups have been
>> overrun by iPhone posts. It's obnoxious. Go away already; many
>> (most?) of us don't care.
>
> Ah, but the iPhone has only been out for 120 days and still in Version
> 1, there will be a series of about 20 more models over the next 5
> years, so at some point you'll understand what we are talking about
> and join in the party. Until then, you can complain all you want, but
> the iPhone will grow and grow until it takes over the entire cell
> industry.
>
> -
contrary to what you might think, there are people that use a cell phone
just as a phone and couldn't care less about bells and whistles.
Unlike others, my cell is not welded to my hip and never will be. YMMV
["Followup-To:" header set to alt.cellular.sprintpcs.]
On 2007-10-24, Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote:
> yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple enters a
> market, it will take over that market. do you use a PC? yes or you
> wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that. ever used
> a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to thank for that.
No, Idiot Boy, Apple uses PostScript. PostScript is an Adobe product.
> you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
> makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
> what we are talking about now.
So in short, what you're saying is "I'm an asshole, and I'll continue to
be an asshole because I feel that my message warrants me being an asshole."
Even if you are 100% right, you're still off topic and posting crap that
others in (most of) the newsgroups you're posting to don't want to read.
> they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by the
> iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15 years.
> There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just don't have the
> resources to build fine quality, tiny phones. they just don't have the
> experience or depth of knowledge that Apple has in this area.
Are you on crack?
One of the first phones I ever carried was a Nokia 100 AMPS handset.
That was in 1995.
That'd be twelve years ago.
Apple just started manufacturing phones.... exactly when?
> The Apple iPhone runs great on WiFi, now with ever easier availability
> of free WiFi.
Cool. But what both you and Oxford fail to understand is that I'm not
arguing that the iPhone is a piece of junk. I don't know, I don't care, and
I don't want to see five gazillion messages about the iPhone in the VZ or
Sprint newsgroups.
> As much as Apple's Laser Writer in 1986 pushed the envelope
> for shared Laser Printers that did more than Courier font,
> I thought Adobe had something to do with fonts.
PostScript was and still is an Adobe product. It IS an open standard, but
it's a page definition language originally designed by, and still maintained
by, Adobe. Newer Macs can display TrueType/OpenType fonts too IIRC, but for
quite some time, Mac fonts were PostScript, and only PostScript.
In news:slrnfhv31i.qut.sjsobol@amethyst.justthe.net,
Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> typed:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.cellular.sprintpcs.]
> On 2007-10-24, Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote:
>
>> yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple enters a
>> market, it will take over that market. do you use a PC? yes or you
>> wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that. ever used
>> a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to thank for that.
>
> No, Idiot Boy, Apple uses PostScript. PostScript is an Adobe product.
>
>> you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
>> makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
>> what we are talking about now.
>
> So in short, what you're saying is "I'm an asshole, and I'll continue to
> be an asshole because I feel that my message warrants me being an
> asshole."
>
> Even if you are 100% right, you're still off topic and posting crap that
> others in (most of) the newsgroups you're posting to don't want to read.
>
>> they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by the
>> iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15 years.
>> There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just don't have the
>> resources to build fine quality, tiny phones. they just don't have the
>> experience or depth of knowledge that Apple has in this area.
>
> Are you on crack?
>
> One of the first phones I ever carried was a Nokia 100 AMPS handset.
>
> That was in 1995.
>
> That'd be twelve years ago.
>
> Apple just started manufacturing phones.... exactly when?
The Apple logo has a piece missing ~ which is where logic and reasoning
ability was. lol
In article <471f80b8$0$1797$9a6e19ea@unlimited.newshosting.co m>,
ChairMan <why4@fu.com> wrote:
> contrary to what you might think, there are people that use a cell phone
> just as a phone and couldn't care less about bells and whistles.
> Unlike others, my cell is not welded to my hip and never will be. YMMV
I resisted for many years, even after working in a computer store that
sold tons of cell phones.
But last year, my girlfriend got me a phone for my birthday. I don't do
texting and rarely approach the number of minutes in my plan.
<karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:25duh31nudfqcujj3692ob0l33vrtp630u@4ax.com...
> It was Apple that first put 802.11 wireless
> networking/Internet into their computers as standard, using Lucent
> technology then and now called "Airport".
I very much doubt that no PCs had WiFi as standard prior to Apple coming it
with it standard on their computers. Are you really suggesting that's the
case? No, e.g., laptop manufacturer was shipping WiFi already integrated onto
the motherboard when Apple first released a machine with
motherboard-integrated WiFi?
> My 7 year old Pismo laptop
> still works great; try and find a working 7 year old Compaq laptop.
You don't see them because something like a 7-year-old Compaq laptop has zero
(or negative!) resale value, but I guarantee you that there are plenty sitting
around in peoples' closests.
> Apple was first with Sony's 3 1/2 floppy disks in 1984
That might be relatively close to accurate.
> and first with Office networked desktop computers also in 1984.
Hardly -- there were tons of PC networking options available before 1984.
Remember ARCNET?
Apple certainly tries hard to innovate -- as many companies do -- and they do
appear to have some legitimate new contributations in the iPhone.
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 17:37:26 -0700, Joel Koltner <JKolstad71HatesSpam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> and first with Office networked desktop computers also in 1984.
>Hardly -- there were tons of PC networking options available before 1984.
>Remember ARCNET?
>Apple certainly tries hard to innovate -- as many companies do -- and they do
>appear to have some legitimate new contributations in the iPhone.
What I best remember apple for is proprietary hardware that cost 70-250% more
than comparable PC hardware. I always laughed inwardly when helping a mac
owning friend replace some common component like a modem that cost $120
instead of $15, or a motherboard that was $600 instead of $60.
I've considered apple a few times, but could never get past the
amazing prices.
"Oxford" <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote in message
news:colalovesmacs-78C6BB.01151624102007@mpls-nnrp-05.inet.qwest.net...
>
> yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple enters a
> market, it will take over that market. do you use a PC? yes or you
> wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that. ever used
> a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to thank for that.
> ever use the world wide web? you have steve jobs to thank for that? and
> on and on... basically your understanding of what the iphone is... IS
> naive.
>
> you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
> makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
> what we are talking about now.
>
> they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by the
> iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15 years.
> There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just don't have the
> resources to build fine quality, tiny phones. they just don't have the
> experience or depth of knowledge that Apple has in this area.
>
> Ah, but the iPhone has only been out for 120 days and still in Version
> 1, there will be a series of about 20 more models over the next 5 years,
> so at some point you'll understand what we are talking about and join in
> the party. Until then, you can complain all you want, but the iPhone
> will grow and grow until it takes over the entire cell industry.
>
It is amazing that one person can spout so much total bullshit.
(PC = the AT, Intel / 8080, etc and yes, Redmond)
(Font = Adobe you dolt)
(WWW = SBLee, Arpanet, etc, etc)
(Nokia at risk?? - "fade away in 10-15" and the "resources" stupidly is especially moronic)
and on and on...
The FOOL Oxford is nothing more than a snotty kid, completely delusional and full of himself.
Pay no attention to the ramblings of a fanboy cretin.
Adding the Apple fanboy newsgroup so they can see why the people in the
mobile phone newsgroups are so annoyed at them.
On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Oxford wrote:
>> I'm not, but I'm really sick and fucking tired of people posting all the
>> iPhone crap in newsgroups dedicated to CARRIERS WHOSE NETWORKS THE iPHONE
>> WON'T EVEN RUN ON.
> yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple enters a
> market, it will take over that market.
And this is why Apple is forever doomed to be an "also-ran" in the
industry -- cretin fanboys like Oxford that so thoroughly annoy everybody
else that they PROHIBIT use of Apple products in their companies.
> do you use a PC? yes or you
> wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that.
Wrong. Apple did not invent the personal computer. I was around at that
time.
> ever used
> a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to thank for that.
Wrong. Apple did not invent laser or inkjet printers. For that matter, I
used laser printers in 1975, long before Apple existed. Quick, how many
people know what that printer was called?
> ever use the world wide web? you have steve jobs to thank for that?
Wrong. Neither Steve Jobs, nor Apple, invented the web. I happen to know
the inventor (who by the way is a European) of the web.
> you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
> makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
> what we are talking about now.
Too bad for your predictions that the overwhelming majority of mobile
phone users have neither the slightest interest nor use for an iPhone or
any other doo-dad that does anything more than make calls.
Most people do not WANT to access the Internet from their mobile phone,
much less pay for an obscenely priced data plan to use an obsolete EDGE
network. Much of the mobile phone market is people who have el cheapo
phones on bare-bones plans.
> they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by the
> iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15 years.
> There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just don't have the
> resources to build fine quality, tiny phones.
You must be taking some fine drugs to have such hallucinations.
Tell that to the people who have had to have their iPhones replaced due to
cracked screens.
Tell that to the people in Japan who have 3G Nokia phones that in every
way are far superior of iPhone. There's a set of reasons why Apple
doesn't even try to enter the Japanese mobile phone market. One is the
lack of 3G. Another is that the Japanese already have much better.
> Ah, but the iPhone has only been out for 120 days and still in Version
> 1, there will be a series of about 20 more models over the next 5 years,
> so at some point you'll understand what we are talking about and join in
> the party. Until then, you can complain all you want, but the iPhone
> will grow and grow until it takes over the entire cell industry.
More likely, Apple will drop iPhone and exit the mobile phone market.
Everybody who could possibly want an iPhone has bought one. There's no
further market.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
> > yes, steve... but you need to learn to deal with it. when Apple enters a
> > market, it will take over that market.
>
> And this is why Apple is forever doomed to be an "also-ran" in the
> industry -- cretin fanboys like Oxford that so thoroughly annoy everybody
> else that they PROHIBIT use of Apple products in their companies.
well, we'll see, it's still quite early in the PC game... especially now
that MS seems to be exiting the market is telling. They loose .25% each
month to Apple and that's increasing at a rapid rate.
29% of the laptop market is now Apple... that's shocking... in the
future, all modern university classrooms will look like this:
smart people buy Macs, iPods and iPhones, dumb people don't - it's
really that simple.
> > do you use a PC? yes or you
> > wouldn't be posting a reply. you have apple to thank for that.
>
> Wrong. Apple did not invent the personal computer. I was around at that
> time.
Ah, you might want to talk to the inventor. Woz... or read the book:
iWoz: From Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal
Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It
Woz is widely credited to creating the first personal computer.
I was around at that time too, and he was the first one to do it.
> > ever used
> > a font on a laser or inkjet printer? you have apple to thank for that.
>
> Wrong. Apple did not invent laser or inkjet printers. For that matter, I
> used laser printers in 1975, long before Apple existed. Quick, how many
> people know what that printer was called?
and I never said they did, but they were the first to popularize the
Laser Printer on a huge scale. First with Fonts on a wide scale, etc.
You are talking about huge HP 1000 pound boxes, not the Laser Printers
that Apple popularized. Think Mark, THINK.
> > ever use the world wide web? you have steve jobs to thank for that?
>
> Wrong. Neither Steve Jobs, nor Apple, invented the web. I happen to know
> the inventor (who by the way is a European) of the web.
And I never said they did, but they did provide the critical tool that
made the Web possible. If there was no Interface Builder, there would be
no Web. Sure, Tim is a common enough fellow, lots of people know him.
But he was able to create the Web on a NeXT Cube, no other machine could
have made it possible. NeXTSTEP, now called OSX Leopard, did it... And
you have Apple/SJ to thank.
> > you will use an iPhone or a cheap clone of it in 10 years, the iPhone
> > makes all other cell phones obsolete.... so might as well learn about
> > what we are talking about now.
>
> Too bad for your predictions that the overwhelming majority of mobile
> phone users have neither the slightest interest nor use for an iPhone or
> any other doo-dad that does anything more than make calls.
Yes, and they said the same thing about the iPod in 2002, not it 5 years
later and it has 72% of the market. the iPhone will take a similar path,
just watch...
> Most people do not WANT to access the Internet from their mobile phone,
> much less pay for an obscenely priced data plan to use an obsolete EDGE
> network. Much of the mobile phone market is people who have el cheapo
> phones on bare-bones plans.
>
> > they are still cell phone companies and will be greatly impacted by the
> > iPhone. Nokia is most at risk, expect them to fade away in 10-15 years.
> > There is no way they can compete against Apple, they just don't have the
> > resources to build fine quality, tiny phones.
>
> You must be taking some fine drugs to have such hallucinations.
No, I'm just skilled at perceiving how products/markets interact. You
don't seem to have any of those skills, so you are stuck at a university
in one of the most backwards technology states in the USA.
> Tell that to the people who have had to have their iPhones replaced due to
> cracked screens.
Like all 200 of 1,300,000? I'm sure Nokia has a far higher failure rates
of cracked screens. The iPhone screen is a ROCK... most solid smart
phone ever created for the mass market.
> Tell that to the people in Japan who have 3G Nokia phones that in every
> way are far superior of iPhone. There's a set of reasons why Apple
> doesn't even try to enter the Japanese mobile phone market. One is the
> lack of 3G. Another is that the Japanese already have much better.
But they also have access to free WiFi everywhere they go, so 3G kinda
doesn't make sense in those densely concentrated areas.
> > Ah, but the iPhone has only been out for 120 days and still in Version
> > 1, there will be a series of about 20 more models over the next 5 years,
> > so at some point you'll understand what we are talking about and join in
> > the party. Until then, you can complain all you want, but the iPhone
> > will grow and grow until it takes over the entire cell industry.
>
> More likely, Apple will drop iPhone and exit the mobile phone market.
Yes, kinda like they are about ready to drop the iPod, it's only selling
137,838 units A DAY... that's a failure in your eyes correct?
> Everybody who could possibly want an iPhone has bought one. There's no
> further market.
Gosh, I've never run into someone so scared of the iPhone. You are
freaking out that Apple is going to take over the cell market, I can see
it in your posts. Well my friend, it's going to happen... just like the
iPod did to the music industry. It's too late for slow moving companies
like Nokia... they just don't have the talent, patents or resources to
compete against Apple.
Get started developing for the iPhone today! You'll be glad you did!
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
> > Ah, you might want to talk to the inventor. Woz... or read the book:
> >
> > iWoz: From Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal
> > Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It
> >
> > Woz is widely credited to creating the first personal computer.
> >
> > I was around at that time too, and he was the first one to do it.
>
> Just when I think Oxford has said the ultimate in stupid things, he
> one-ups himself.
then take that up with computer historians, Woz, and everyone else. i'm
just repeating the facts.
if you can find a full fledged personal computer that had an actual
case, screen output, keyboard, cassette input and sold on a massive
scale before April 1st, 1976... I'm sure people would love to know your
2nd secret you keep hiding from everyone.
In news:colalovesmacs-249437.08243025102007@mpls-nnrp-04.inet.qwest.net,
Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> typed:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>
>>> Ah, you might want to talk to the inventor. Woz... or read the book:
>>>
>>> iWoz: From Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal
>>> Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It
>>>
>>> Woz is widely credited to creating the first personal computer.
>>>
>>> I was around at that time too, and he was the first one to do it.
>>
>> Just when I think Oxford has said the ultimate in stupid things, he
>> one-ups himself.
>
> then take that up with computer historians, Woz, and everyone else. i'm
> just repeating the facts.
>
> if you can find a full fledged personal computer that had an actual
> case, screen output, keyboard, cassette input and sold on a massive
> scale before April 1st, 1976... I'm sure people would love to know your
> 2nd secret you keep hiding from everyone.
>
> -
The Apple I computer designed by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the most
famous members of the Homebrew Computer Club, over 30 years ago, in 1976. It
was mostly a kit computer. Users bought the workings and built their own
case. http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...ars-ago-photo/
The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the
Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II, meets your
specs.
"IMHO IIRC" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.NOSPAM> wrote in
news:LQ2Ui.4917$E92.2419@newsfe23.lga:
> In
> news:colalovesmacs-249437.08243025102007@mpls-nnrp-04.inet.qwest.net,
> Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> typed:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Ah, you might want to talk to the inventor. Woz... or read the
>>>> book:
>>>>
>>>> iWoz: From Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal
>>>> Computer, Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It
>>>>
>>>> Woz is widely credited to creating the first personal computer.
>>>>
>>>> I was around at that time too, and he was the first one to do it.
>>>
>>> Just when I think Oxford has said the ultimate in stupid things, he
>>> one-ups himself.
>>
>> then take that up with computer historians, Woz, and everyone else.
>> i'm just repeating the facts.
>>
>> if you can find a full fledged personal computer that had an actual
>> case, screen output, keyboard, cassette input and sold on a massive
>> scale before April 1st, 1976... I'm sure people would love to know
>> your 2nd secret you keep hiding from everyone.
>>
>> -
>
> The Apple I computer designed by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the
> most famous members of the Homebrew Computer Club, over 30 years ago,
> in 1976. It was mostly a kit computer. Users bought the workings and
> built their own case.
> http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...ple-computer-3
> 0-years-ago-photo/
>
> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at
> the Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II,
> meets your specs.
>
>
>
>
Gee, Oxford. It looks like you just got caught with your pants down (was
Kurt spanking your monkey?). This would also seem to disprove your claim
of being around at that time, as those of that were clearly remember this.
Your spotty knowledge base seems to indicate that you are simply reading
the history and did not live it.
>
> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the
> Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II, meets your
> specs.
but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
nice try IMHO IIRC! but you need to learn the history of computing
before you make further mistakes.
"IMHO IIRC" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.NOSPAM> wrote in message news:LQ2Ui.4917$E92.2419@newsfe23.lga...
>
> The Apple I computer designed by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the most famous members of the Homebrew Computer Club,
> over 30 years ago, in 1976. It was mostly a kit computer. Users bought the workings and built their own case.
> http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...ars-ago-photo/
>
> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months
> before the Apple II, meets your specs.
>
>
'Trash 80'????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Trinity
1977 Trinity is a name given by Byte Magazine to three personal computers released
in 1977 which competed heavily for the emerging assembled microcomputer market.
They were in alphabetical order the Apple II, Commodore PET 2001 and the TRS-80 Model I.
I'd also add that the 8080 itself had a HUGE influence and thus Intel was born.
Leading to the Pentium - an item that cannot be ignored in this discussion.
"Ness_net" <richard@nomore.damn.spam.nessnet.com> wrote in
news:85qdndOMcOp-r7zanZ2dnUVZ_veinZ2d@giganews.com:
>
> "IMHO IIRC" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.NOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:LQ2Ui.4917$E92.2419@newsfe23.lga...
>>
>> The Apple I computer designed by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, the
>> most famous members of the Homebrew Computer Club, over 30 years ago,
>> in 1976. It was mostly a kit computer. Users bought the workings and
>> built their own case.
>> http://www.our-picks.com/archives/20...pple-computer-
>> 30-years-ago-photo/
>>
>> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at
>> the Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II,
>> meets your specs.
>>
>>
>
> 'Trash 80'????
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Trinity
> 1977 Trinity is a name given by Byte Magazine to three personal
> computers released
> in 1977 which competed heavily for the emerging assembled
> microcomputer market.
> They were in alphabetical order the Apple II, Commodore PET 2001 and
> the TRS-80 Model I.
>
>
> I'd also add that the 8080 itself had a HUGE influence and thus Intel
> was born. Leading to the Pentium - an item that cannot be ignored in
> this discussion.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Agreed. Personal computing (including Apples) didn't truly perform until
the Pentium was released. That was the final blow to Apple's dominance.
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, Oxford wrote:
> "IMHO IIRC" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.NOSPAM> wrote:
>> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the
>> Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II, meets your
>> specs.
> but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
Not by a long shot.
The Altair was out in January 1975, followed in August 1975 by the IMSAI
8080.
The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
Xerox had the Alto in 1973. The Alto was so great that Apple copied it a
decade later to create Lisa (later Macintosh). It had a GUI text editor
complete with fonts, and even its own version of Space Invaders and Maze
Wars. Alto was also the client platform for which Ethernet was invented.
I forget when the IMLAC PDS-1 came out, but that too was a personal
computer and it preceeded the Alto.
The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
computer, and came out in 1970.
Although somewhat large, the IBM 1130 was also arguably a personal
computer and that was late 1960s/early 1970s. I vividly remember
APL\1130, a largely compatible single-user version of APL\360. The 1130
was a bit large and power hungry for home use though...
The earliest that I can find of a reference to the term "personal
computer" is a New York Times article in 1962. In the mid 1970s, lots of
people were talking about personal computers and how to internetwork (note
the small "i") them. IIRC, REM's PCNET mailing list appeared in 1974 or
1975.
The main thing introduced by the Apple ][, Commodore Pet, Atari 800, IBM
PC, etc. was the transformation of personal computers from being the
province of hobbyists and research labs to being home appliances. There
is no doubt that the Apple ][ played a significant part. Similarly, the
IBM PC some years later established the multi-vendor standardization
necessary for PCs to be successful business tools.
These were important contributions; but in the environment of the 1970s
these developments were inevitable. Lots of people were working on, and
talking about, personal computers.
This is perhaps fortunate, because if Apple had "invented" the personal
computer, it would have been patented and prevented the vigorous
competition that created the industry we know today. Yet another example
of the benefit of open design over closed design.
-- Mark --
http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
In news:colalovesmacs-09AF22.18064025102007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net,
Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> typed:
> "IMHO IIRC" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.NOSPAM> wrote:
>
>>
>> The Commodore PET, Announced and demonstrated in January of 1977 at the
>> Consumer Electronics Show in Chicago, months before the Apple II, meets
>> your specs.
>
> but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
>
> nice try IMHO IIRC! but you need to learn the history of computing
> before you make further mistakes.
>
So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, IMHO IIRC wrote:
> So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
> personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
> cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
That's only because you restricted the mass storage to cassette. If you
allow hard disk, floppy, or random-access tape then there are multiple
personal computers earlier than June 1977.
-- Mark --
http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
In news:alpine.OSX.0.9999.0710252032350.4480@pangtzu. panda.com,
Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> typed:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, IMHO IIRC wrote:
>> So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
>> personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
>> cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
>
> That's only because you restricted the mass storage to cassette. If you
> allow hard disk, floppy, or random-access tape then there are multiple
> personal computers earlier than June 1977.
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://panda.com/mrc
> Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
The Datapoint 2200 did have cassette data storage in addition to optional
disk drives.
So it does indeed meet the specs that Oxford quoted.
It was introduced in 1971. http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=596
In article <alpine.OSX.0.9999.0710251727240.4480@pangtzu.pand a.com>,
Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
> Not by a long shot.
>
> The Altair was out in January 1975, followed in August 1975 by the IMSAI
> 8080.
didn't have a keyboard or a screen or a floppy drive, or any drive.
until much, much later. the apple ][ was the first PC, you need to
accept history, not try and be a revisionist.
> The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
> PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
riiiiiight, it was about as personal as an aircraft carrier. can't
believe you even tried to include mini-computers as PCs. funny!
> Xerox had the Alto in 1973. The Alto was so great that Apple copied it a
> decade later to create Lisa (later Macintosh). It had a GUI text editor
> complete with fonts, and even its own version of Space Invaders and Maze
> Wars. Alto was also the client platform for which Ethernet was invented.
the Alto was never sold, nor was it "personal".
> I forget when the IMLAC PDS-1 came out, but that too was a personal
> computer and it preceeded the Alto.
not a personal computer however.
> The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
> computer, and came out in 1970.
it was just a terminal.
> Although somewhat large, the IBM 1130 was also arguably a personal
> computer and that was late 1960s/early 1970s. I vividly remember
> APL\1130, a largely compatible single-user version of APL\360. The 1130
> was a bit large and power hungry for home use though...
yes, and the IBM System 36 was a personal computer correct?
> The earliest that I can find of a reference to the term "personal
> computer" is a New York Times article in 1962. In the mid 1970s, lots of
> people were talking about personal computers and how to internetwork (note
> the small "i") them. IIRC, REM's PCNET mailing list appeared in 1974 or
> 1975.
but none are regarded as personal computers. that happened with the
Apple ][. learn your history mark.
> The main thing introduced by the Apple ][, Commodore Pet, Atari 800, IBM
> PC, etc. was the transformation of personal computers from being the
> province of hobbyists and research labs to being home appliances. There
> is no doubt that the Apple ][ played a significant part. Similarly, the
> IBM PC some years later established the multi-vendor standardization
> necessary for PCs to be successful business tools.
good, now you are starting to catch on.
> These were important contributions; but in the environment of the 1970s
> these developments were inevitable. Lots of people were working on, and
> talking about, personal computers.
sure, but the Apple ][ was the definitive machine that sold millions all
the way up to 1993, it is considered the "first true" personal computer
by all historians. Its original design is what many PCs sold today still
use.
> This is perhaps fortunate, because if Apple had "invented" the personal
> computer, it would have been patented and prevented the vigorous
> competition that created the industry we know today. Yet another example
> of the benefit of open design over closed design.
well, they invented the first personal computer that sold in large
volumes, had tons of "personal" software and went on to form the
foundation that IBM later copied with their IBM PC in 1981.
In news:colalovesmacs-C2C275.09214726102007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net,
Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> typed:
> In article <alpine.OSX.0.9999.0710251727240.4480@pangtzu.pand a.com>,
> Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
>
>>> SNIP <<<
>
>> The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
>> computer, and came out in 1970.
>
> it was just a terminal.
>
Yes it had that function just like PCs and Macs do today.
Oxford wrote:
> In article <alpine.OSX.0.9999.0710251727240.4480@pangtzu.pand a.com>,
> Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
>
>> Not by a long shot.
>>
>> The Altair was out in January 1975, followed in August 1975 by the IMSAI
>> 8080.
>
> didn't have a keyboard or a screen or a floppy drive, or any drive.
> until much, much later. the apple ][ was the first PC, you need to
> accept history, not try and be a revisionist.
>
>> The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
>> PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
>
> riiiiiight, it was about as personal as an aircraft carrier. can't
> believe you even tried to include mini-computers as PCs. funny!
What's funny is I know someone that is running one in his basement.
>
>> Xerox had the Alto in 1973. The Alto was so great that Apple copied it a
>> decade later to create Lisa (later Macintosh). It had a GUI text editor
>> complete with fonts, and even its own version of Space Invaders and Maze
>> Wars. Alto was also the client platform for which Ethernet was invented.
>
> the Alto was never sold, nor was it "personal".
>
>> I forget when the IMLAC PDS-1 came out, but that too was a personal
>> computer and it preceeded the Alto.
>
> not a personal computer however.
>
>> The Datapoint 2200 (anyone remember those?) was arguably a personal
>> computer, and came out in 1970.
>
> it was just a terminal.
>
> >> The PDP-8 (introduced in 1965) was a personal computer, especially the
> >> PDP-8/e/f/m and PDP-8/a.
> >
> > riiiiiight, it was about as personal as an aircraft carrier. can't
> > believe you even tried to include mini-computers as PCs. funny!
>
> What's funny is I know someone that is running one in his basement.
yeah, they show up on ebay once in awhile. such a fun relic.
yes, too bad it never sold, thus isn't considered the first personal
computer. that title is well reserved for Woz and his breakthrough Apple
| and ][.
he's the guy that was able to reduce the chip count to such extreme
levels to make all PCs finally possible.
engineers still study and marvel at Woz's designs, he one of the true
geniuses of our age. he did what nobody else could do before... make the
first PC for the masses.
> > but didn't ship until September of 1977, thus the 2nd personal computer.
> >
> > nice try IMHO IIRC! but you need to learn the history of computing
> > before you make further mistakes.
> >
>
> So the answer to your original question is: there was NO full fledged
> personal computer that had an actual case, screen output, keyboard &
> cassette input sold before June 1977. lol
none that can be traced back to something resembling the Apple ][, which
became the de-facto standard still in use today.
yes, 1977 with the Apple ][ is the primary root upon all other PCs were
built.
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