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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2009, 09:09 PM
Russ in San Diego
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On Mar 6, 10:02*am, Rik Brown <Rik.Brown.3on...@no-
mx.forums.travel.com> wrote:
> I found out yesterday that our company had been billed several months
> for a $9.99 monthly 3rd party ring tone package that Sprint claimed was
> authorized by me (not!). I had neither authorized it nor ever used it!
>
> After being forced to argue the matter for about 20 minutes, a
> supervisor finally gave us a credit (for something we should never had
> to pay for in the first place!). He claimed that Sprint did not even
> have any contract with this company but only handled the billing. Right.
>
> Has anyone else received such unauthorized billings (neatly buried deep
> in their bills, I might add) from Sprint?
>
> -- Rik
>
> ps: We had Sprint put a block on 3rd party add-on packages to the
> phones so hopefully this won't happen again!
>
> --
> Rik Brown
>
> Share your experiences in the forums, blogs, videos, and online
> community at 'TRAVEL.com' (http://forums.TRAVEL.com).
> Message Origin: TRAVEL.com


Something similar happened to me via AT&T -- twice, from two different
companies. It's called "cramming".

Don't blame Sprint in particular for this. Apparently, all phone
carriers are required to accept 3rd-party billings. Once you go
through the hassle you went through, you can usually get them to deny
these charges if you really did not authorize them. It helps if you
catch the problem on the very first bill.

Chances are that federal legislation requires phone carriers to accept
3rd party billing. And that tends to mean that some lobbyist
organization WROTE that legislation. The question is, who paid the
lobbyist to pay the legislator to sponsor the bill? Could be the
phone carriers, or it could be someone else. Anyone care to do some
investigation?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2009, 02:59 PM
The Bob
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:f94f972e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8ddc@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

> On May 4, 6:09*am, jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> On Mar 6, 6:09*pm, Russ in San Diego <russg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mar 6, 10:02*am, Rik Brown <Rik.Brown.3on...@no-

>>
>> > Don't blame Sprint in particular for this. *Apparently, all phone
>> > carriers are required to accept 3rd-party billings. *Once you go
>> > through the hassle you went through, you can usually get them to deny
>> > these charges if you really did not authorize them. *It helps if you
>> > catch the problem on the very first bill.

>>
>> > Chances are that federal legislation requires phone carriers to accept
>> > 3rd party billing. *

>>
>> Chances are that the phone carrier makes a whopping percentage of the
>> money it collects for the third party. *There's conniving going on.
>> When there's murder, always look for motive.
>>
>> The motive for larceny is greed.

>
> This I tried to post, and Google said my session expired, so here it
> is again, but out of place, which I don't have time to find:
>
> On May 8, 7:10 am, George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> jl wrote:

> [...]
>> Actually you started the personal attacks by calling everyone "toadies"

>
> Nope, the attacks started long before that, and your first post in the
> first thread was a personal attack.
> I went back over the thread just to watch the evolution of the attacks
> and who started them.
>
> Of course, I knew that sooner or later someone would start. It
> didn't take long. There are people who hang out in a NG just lying in
> wait and poised to pounce. LOL. It's very funny but unsavory trait
> of human nature, and almost universal.
>
> I remember going into a group to complain about sharp practices of
> Argenbright Securicor, the security company which policed and provided
> security for many airports here in the USA. They were acting like
> thugs, I said, and before long somebody in the group was calling me a
> racist, an idiot (the flamer's fav word) and god knows what else. It
> was a riot.
>
> Argenbright were stealing people's personal property in the name of
> security, and if you'll check them out you'll see that their buzzards
> finally came home to roost. They have been thrown out of most the
> airports where they operated. The misfortune couldn't have happened
> to a more deserving bunch of sonsa*****es.
>


So, were you able to line the entire house in lead or do you just have a
room or two done?

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:13 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following innews:f94f972e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8ddc@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:



I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon wireless
sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices by the
wireless companies has raged across the USA. The wireless
telecommunications companies illegally withhold earned commissions
from their salespeople, they "cram" customers' statements with false
charges and unauthorized third-party billings, they collect
unauthorized charges and taxes "by mistake," they impose illegal early
termination fees, they "lock" phones so they can't be used with other
cellphone companies, and they perpetrate false and fraudulent
advertising.

But hey, folks, I'm uneducated and, as THE bob says, a leech. So
don't pay any attention to me. All those hundreds and hundreds of
hits on all those class action lawsuits settled in the millions of
dollars in favor of their victims by Sprint, AT&T, and VZW are just
figments of Google's imagination.

________________________________

The judge, in a tentative ruling, said Sprint will have to pay 18
million dollars to customers who sued over the ["early termination"]
fees and credit nearly 55 million dollars to those who were charged
but did not pay the fees. The same judge is considering other lawsuits
against telecommunications companies over their so-called early
termination fees, which can range from $150 to $225.

This month Verizon Wireless agreed to pay 21 million dollars to settle
an identical lawsuit just as trial was starting. The ruling is at the
center of a debate in other state courthouses and in Washington over
the fairness of the fees. The Federal Communications Commission is
being lobbied over how to handle the fees. Telecommunications
companies have asked the FCC to regulate the fees and shield wireless
companies from class action lawsuits in state courts, such as the one
Sprint is poised to lose.

---- figment of the imagination from:
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/g...5041&catid=114

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2009, 09:36 PM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:3d9d6e93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8b26@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> innews:f94f97

> 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8ddc@t11g2...oglegroups.com:
>
>
> I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon wireless
> sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.
>
> For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices by the
> wireless companies has raged across the USA.


How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar search of
other industries was done?

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 02:54 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following innews:3d9d6e93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8b26@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> innews:f94f97

> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon wireless
> > sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>
> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices by the
> > wireless companies has raged across the USA. *

>
> How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar search of
> other industries was done?


State your case, Bluto.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2009, 11:06 PM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:0f76547c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f73de@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

> On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> innews:3d9d6e

> 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8b26@v17g2...oglegroups.com:
>>
>> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
>> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> innews:f94f97
>> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon wireless
>> > sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>>
>> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices by
>> > the wireless companies has raged across the USA. *

>>
>> How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar
>> search of other industries was done?

>
> State your case, Bluto.
>


I thought my case was very clearly stated. I also thought the question was
very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed outrage at
the number of complaints that have been filed. I asked how that volume
compared to other industries. I assumed that you did that research based
on your outrage. Based on your response, that clearly is not the case and
you were very poorly armed to answer the question.

As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your clients than
you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your data gathering skills.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2009, 02:58 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following innews:0f76547c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f73de@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> innews:3d9d6e

> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> innews:f94f97
> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon wireless
> >> > sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>
> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices by
> >> > the wireless companies has raged across the USA. *

>
> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar
> >> search of other industries was done?

>
> > State your case, Bluto.

>
> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the questionwas
> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed outrage at
> the number of complaints that have been filed. *I asked how that volume
> compared to other industries. *I assumed that you did that research based
> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not the case and
> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.
>
> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your clients than
> you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your data gathering skills.- Hide quoted text -



Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam. This is usenet, not
the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.

If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis Brief,
hire it done.

Jerk.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2009, 08:03 PM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:2c21d461-8e9b-4631-b9d5-67ab98a2ff93@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

> On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> innews:0f7654

> 7c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f73de@e20g2...oglegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> innews:3d9d6e
>> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
>> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> >> innews:f94f97
>> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon
>> >> > wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>>
>> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices by
>> >> > the wireless companies has raged across the USA. *

>>
>> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar
>> >> search of other industries was done?

>>
>> > State your case, Bluto.

>>
>> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the
>> question

> was
>> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed outrage
>> at the number of complaints that have been filed. *I asked how that
>> volume compared to other industries. *I assumed that you did that
>> research bas

> ed
>> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not the
>> case

> and
>> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.
>>
>> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your clients
>> than you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your data gathering
>> skills.- Hi

> de quoted text -
>
>
> Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam.


No. I was pointing out the fatal flaw in your arugument and your
response simply proves that I'm right. The flaw is that the cellular
industry has no more of a tainted record than any other industry in
terms of the complaints that can be found on the internet.

Your own words- "I just did a little googling with "sprint sued,"
"verizon wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on." The number of
hits would not have varied much at all if you had used Walmart,
Goodyear, General Electric, Kroger or any number of other corporate
titan. Your claim that, "For the last several years a pandemic of
fraudulent practices by the wireless companies has raged across the
USA" would have been put into a logical persective and shown not to be
the unique sitaution you are trying to make it out to be.



> This is usenet, not
> the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
> stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.



But you've only stated limited facts. The fact that you did not make
the comparison to other industries shows that you knew that it would
weaken your case or that you were too stupid to realize that it might
help your case if the numbers fell in your favor. So which is it?

>
> If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis Brief,
> hire it done.


No need for that with Google available. I have much better uses for my
money than padding the expense accounts of corporate leeches.

>
> Jerk.
>


And with that, I know the nerve was struck. And if that's the best you
can do, I guess I'm done wasting my time with you. For someone who
professes to be so smart, you haven't provided anything to back that
claim up. You totally avoided my point here because you knew that it
would expose your cause as one that doesn't merit the outrage you are
trying to gather.


You must be a Public Defender, because I'm now having a hard time
believing that you possess the skills people would freely pay for.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2009, 05:11 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 17, 4:03*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following innews:2c21d461-8e9b-4631-b9d5-67ab98a2ff93@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> innews:0f7654

> > 7c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f7...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> innews:3d9d6e
> >> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> >> innews:f94f97
> >> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon
> >> >> > wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>
> >> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices by
> >> >> > the wireless companies has raged across the USA. *

>
> >> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar
> >> >> search of other industries was done?

>
> >> > State your case, Bluto.

>
> >> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the
> >> question

> > *was
> >> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed outrage
> >> at the number of complaints that have been filed. *I asked how that
> >> volume compared to other industries. *I assumed that you did that
> >> research bas

> > ed
> >> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not the
> >> case

> > and
> >> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.

>
> >> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your clients
> >> than you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your data gathering
> >> skills.- Hi

> > de quoted text -

>
> > Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam. *

>
> No. *I was pointing out the fatal flaw in your arugument and your
> response simply proves that I'm right. *The flaw is that the cellular
> industry has no more of a tainted record than any other industry in
> terms of the complaints that can be found on the internet. *
>
> Your own words- "I just did a little googling with "sprint sued,"
> "verizon wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on." *The number of
> hits would not have varied much at all if you had used Walmart,
> Goodyear, General Electric, Kroger or any number of other corporate
> titan. *Your claim that, "For the last several years a pandemic of
> fraudulent practices by the wireless companies has raged across the
> USA" would have been put into a logical persective and shown not to be
> the unique sitaution you are trying to make it out to be.
>
> > This is usenet, not
> > the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
> > stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.

>
> But you've only stated limited facts. *The fact that you did not make
> the comparison to other industries shows that you knew that it would
> weaken your case or that you were too stupid to realize that it might
> help your case if the numbers fell in your favor. *So which is it? *
>
>
>
> > If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis Brief,
> > hire it done.

>
> No need for that with Google available. *I have much better uses for my
> money than padding the expense accounts of corporate leeches.
>
>
>
> > Jerk.

>
> And with that, I know the nerve was struck. *And if that's the best you
> can do, I guess I'm done wasting my time with you. * For someone who
> professes to be so smart, you haven't provided anything to back that
> claim up. *You totally avoided my point here because you knew that it
> would expose your cause as one that doesn't merit the outrage you are
> trying to gather.
>
> You must be a Public Defender, because I'm now having a hard time
> believing that you possess the skills people would freely pay for.- Hide quoted text -


Verrrry funny. "Your Honor, we have an excuse! Our culpability is
mitigated, or wiped out even, because other companies steal too!"
would be the defense of the crooked telecoms.

And nitwits like you.

Ha ha ha.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2009, 11:19 PM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:cd253919-55dc-4ec1-8be2-8ff02b9f8d0b@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com:

> On May 17, 4:03*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> innews:2c21d4

> 61-8e9b-4631-b9d5-67ab98a2ff93@f16g2...oglegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> innews:0f7654
>> > 7c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f7...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> >> innews:3d9d6e
>> >> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> >> >> innews:f94f97
>> >> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon
>> >> >> > wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>>
>> >> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices
>> >> >> > by the wireless companies has raged across the USA. *

>>
>> >> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar
>> >> >> search of other industries was done?

>>
>> >> > State your case, Bluto.

>>
>> >> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the
>> >> question
>> > *was
>> >> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed
>> >> outrage at the number of complaints that have been filed. *I asked
>> >> how that volume compared to other industries. *I assumed that you
>> >> did that research bas
>> > ed
>> >> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not the
>> >> case
>> > and
>> >> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.

>>
>> >> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your
>> >> clients than you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your data
>> >> gathering skills.- Hi
>> > de quoted text -

>>
>> > Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam. *

>>
>> No. *I was pointing out the fatal flaw in your arugument and your
>> response simply proves that I'm right. *The flaw is that the cellular
>> industry has no more of a tainted record than any other industry in
>> terms of the complaints that can be found on the internet. *
>>
>> Your own words- "I just did a little googling with "sprint sued,"
>> "verizon wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on." *The number
>> of hits would not have varied much at all if you had used Walmart,
>> Goodyear, General Electric, Kroger or any number of other corporate
>> titan. *Your claim that, "For the last several years a pandemic of
>> fraudulent practices by the wireless companies has raged across the
>> USA" would have been put into a logical persective and shown not to
>> be the unique sitaution you are trying to make it out to be.
>>
>> > This is usenet, not
>> > the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
>> > stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.

>>
>> But you've only stated limited facts. *The fact that you did not make
>> the comparison to other industries shows that you knew that it would
>> weaken your case or that you were too stupid to realize that it might
>> help your case if the numbers fell in your favor. *So which is it? *
>>
>>
>>
>> > If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis Brief,
>> > hire it done.

>>
>> No need for that with Google available. *I have much better uses for
>> my money than padding the expense accounts of corporate leeches.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Jerk.

>>
>> And with that, I know the nerve was struck. *And if that's the best
>> you can do, I guess I'm done wasting my time with you. * For someone
>> who professes to be so smart, you haven't provided anything to back
>> that claim up. *You totally avoided my point here because you knew
>> that it would expose your cause as one that doesn't merit the outrage
>> you are trying to gather.
>>
>> You must be a Public Defender, because I'm now having a hard time
>> believing that you possess the skills people would freely pay for.-
>> Hide

> quoted text -
>
> Verrrry funny. "Your Honor, we have an excuse! Our culpability is
> mitigated, or wiped out even, because other companies steal too!"
> would be the defense of the crooked telecoms.


I was afraid that my point was too complex for you. I was right. The
problem is that you have selected as your "evidence" numbers that have
no meaning unless put into relative terms. How does the percentage
compare to other industries? How many of the complaints were valid?
How many of the complaints were not made by consumers of the product?
How many of the complaints were made by disgruntled employees?

Your presentation of 'evidence' would be ripped to shreds by even the
most inexperienced opposing counsel. Your fatal flaw is that you assume
that the existence of a complaint immediately correlates to the
existence of a problem. Nothing could be further from the truth.

>
> And nitwits like you.


It would appear that we are not the nitwits.

>
> Ha ha ha.
>



Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 02:14 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 19, 7:19*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following innews:cd253919-55dc-4ec1-8be2-8ff02b9f8d0b@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 17, 4:03*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> innews:2c21d4

> > 61-8e9b-4631-b9d5-67ab98a2f...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> innews:0f7654
> >> > 7c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f7...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> >> innews:3d9d6e
> >> >> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> >> >> innews:f94f97
> >> >> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon
> >> >> >> > wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>
> >> >> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent practices
> >> >> >> > by the wireless companies has raged across the USA. *

>
> >> >> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a similar
> >> >> >> search of other industries was done?

>
> >> >> > State your case, Bluto.

>
> >> >> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the
> >> >> question
> >> > *was
> >> >> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed
> >> >> outrage at the number of complaints that have been filed. *I asked
> >> >> how that volume compared to other industries. *I assumed that you
> >> >> did that research bas
> >> > ed
> >> >> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not the
> >> >> case
> >> > and
> >> >> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.

>
> >> >> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your
> >> >> clients than you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your data
> >> >> gathering skills.- Hi
> >> > de quoted text -

>
> >> > Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam. *

>
> >> No. *I was pointing out the fatal flaw in your arugument and your
> >> response simply proves that I'm right. *The flaw is that the cellular
> >> industry has no more of a tainted record than any other industry in
> >> terms of the complaints that can be found on the internet. *

>
> >> Your own words- "I just did a little googling with "sprint sued,"
> >> "verizon wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on." *The number
> >> of hits would not have varied much at all if you had used Walmart,
> >> Goodyear, General Electric, Kroger or any number of other corporate
> >> titan. *Your claim that, "For the last several years a pandemic of
> >> fraudulent practices by the wireless companies has raged across the
> >> USA" would have been put into a logical persective and shown not to
> >> be the unique sitaution you are trying to make it out to be.

>
> >> > This is usenet, not
> >> > the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
> >> > stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.

>
> >> But you've only stated limited facts. *The fact that you did not make
> >> the comparison to other industries shows that you knew that it would
> >> weaken your case or that you were too stupid to realize that it might
> >> help your case if the numbers fell in your favor. *So which is it? *

>
> >> > If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis Brief,
> >> > hire it done.

>
> >> No need for that with Google available. *I have much better uses for
> >> my money than padding the expense accounts of corporate leeches.

>
> >> > Jerk.

>
> >> And with that, I know the nerve was struck. *And if that's the best
> >> you can do, I guess I'm done wasting my time with you. * For someone
> >> who professes to be so smart, you haven't provided anything to back
> >> that claim up. *You totally avoided my point here because you knew
> >> that it would expose your cause as one that doesn't merit the outrage
> >> you are trying to gather.

>
> >> You must be a Public Defender, because I'm now having a hard time
> >> believing that you possess the skills people would freely pay for.-
> >> Hide

> > quoted text -

>
> > Verrrry funny. *"Your Honor, we have an excuse! * Our culpability is
> > mitigated, or wiped out even, because other companies steal too!"
> > would be the defense of the crooked telecoms.

>
> I was afraid that my point was too complex for you. *I was right. *The
> problem is that you have selected as your "evidence" numbers that have
> no meaning unless put into relative terms. *How does the percentage
> compare to other industries? *How many of the complaints were valid? *
> How many of the complaints were not made by consumers of the product? *
> How many of the complaints were made by disgruntled employees?
>
> Your presentation of 'evidence' would be ripped to shreds by even the
> most inexperienced opposing counsel. *Your fatal flaw is that you assume
> that the existence of a complaint immediately correlates to the
> existence of a problem. *Nothing could be further from the truth.
>
>
>
> > And nitwits like you.

>
> It would appear that we are not the nitwits.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ha * *ha * * *ha.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in courts
of law.

You can usually pore over a complaint with some skepticism and tell
whether the complainer is whining or whether he has a legitimate
gripe. Some complaints are whines, some are on the line between
believable and unbelievable, and some are quite detailed and entirely
credible. The complaint of the originator of this thread is quite
credible.

Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2009, 02:50 PM
Todd Allcock
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?


"jl" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:f63ee9e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c74d6@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...

> You can usually pore over a complaint with some skepticism and tell
> whether the complainer is whining or whether he has a legitimate
> gripe. Some complaints are whines, some are on the line between
> believable and unbelievable, and some are quite detailed and entirely
> credible. The complaint of the originator of this thread is quite
> credible.


Agreed. Not at all like the guy who started this one:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.cellular.verizon/browse_thread/thread/c740eb4628710348/01953cdf9760ec52>

But regardless of the credibility, you still have to make the logical jump
from "simple mistakes" to "fraud." Even if you think you've found a
pattern, you have to weigh that appearance versus the sheer volume of
customers. For example, McDonald's has sold over 100 billion hamburgers. I
suspect that you could find thousands if not millions of customers who
received one that was prepared incorrectly. (Like asking for "no mustard"
and still getting mustard on it.) With those sheer numbers, even 10 million
"wrong" burgers would be random carelessness, not a "willful pattern of
fraud"!

Similarly, when looking at complaints against wireless companies like
Verizon or AT&T with 70 million customers or more at any one time, even a
0.01% billing error rate (1 in 10,000) represents 7,000 customers a month
with incorrect bills- or almost 100,000 a year. (And, judging by my days
with Cingular, "0.01%" is VERY optimistically low!) ;-)

Certainly some aspects of the system need work: for example, it's far too
easy to sign up for these stupid 3rd-party services- I can enter virtually
ANYONE's phone number on some websites and start a subscription to a
$10/month service that will appear on their phone bill. That needs fixing,
pronto. This could've been what happened to the originator of this thread.
(That doesn't excuse his shabby treatment by customer service attempting to
get the charges removed, of course.)



Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 04:17 AM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:f63ee9e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c74d6@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:

> On May 19, 7:19*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> innews:cd2539

> 19-55dc-4ec1-8be2-8ff02b9f8d0b@l32g2...oglegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 17, 4:03*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> innews:2c21d4
>> > 61-8e9b-4631-b9d5-67ab98a2f...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> > On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> >> innews:0f7654
>> >> > 7c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f7...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> >> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> >> >> innews:3d9d6e
>> >> >> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> >> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the
>> >> >> >> >> following innews:f94f97
>> >> >> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...

@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> > :

>>
>> >> >> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon
>> >> >> >> > wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>>
>> >> >> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent
>> >> >> >> > practices by the wireless companies has raged across the
>> >> >> >> > USA. *

>>
>> >> >> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a
>> >> >> >> similar search of other industries was done?

>>
>> >> >> > State your case, Bluto.

>>
>> >> >> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the
>> >> >> question
>> >> > *was
>> >> >> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed
>> >> >> outrage at the number of complaints that have been filed. *I
>> >> >> aske

> d
>> >> >> how that volume compared to other industries. *I assumed that
>> >> >> you did that research bas
>> >> > ed
>> >> >> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not
>> >> >> the case
>> >> > and
>> >> >> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.

>>
>> >> >> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your
>> >> >> clients than you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your
>> >> >> data gathering skills.- Hi
>> >> > de quoted text -

>>
>> >> > Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam. *

>>
>> >> No. *I was pointing out the fatal flaw in your arugument and your
>> >> response simply proves that I'm right. *The flaw is that the
>> >> cellula

> r
>> >> industry has no more of a tainted record than any other industry
>> >> in terms of the complaints that can be found on the internet. *

>>
>> >> Your own words- "I just did a little googling with "sprint sued,"
>> >> "verizon wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on." *The
>> >> number of hits would not have varied much at all if you had used
>> >> Walmart, Goodyear, General Electric, Kroger or any number of other
>> >> corporate titan. *Your claim that, "For the last several years a
>> >> pandemic of fraudulent practices by the wireless companies has
>> >> raged across the USA" would have been put into a logical
>> >> persective and shown not to be the unique sitaution you are trying
>> >> to make it out to be.

>>
>> >> > This is usenet, not
>> >> > the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
>> >> > stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.

>>
>> >> But you've only stated limited facts. *The fact that you did not
>> >> mak

> e
>> >> the comparison to other industries shows that you knew that it
>> >> would weaken your case or that you were too stupid to realize that
>> >> it might help your case if the numbers fell in your favor. *So
>> >> which is it?

> *
>>
>> >> > If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis
>> >> > Brief, hire it done.

>>
>> >> No need for that with Google available. *I have much better uses
>> >> for my money than padding the expense accounts of corporate
>> >> leeches.

>>
>> >> > Jerk.

>>
>> >> And with that, I know the nerve was struck. *And if that's the
>> >> best you can do, I guess I'm done wasting my time with you. * For
>> >> someone who professes to be so smart, you haven't provided
>> >> anything to back that claim up. *You totally avoided my point here
>> >> because you knew that it would expose your cause as one that
>> >> doesn't merit the outrage you are trying to gather.

>>
>> >> You must be a Public Defender, because I'm now having a hard time
>> >> believing that you possess the skills people would freely pay
>> >> for.- Hide
>> > quoted text -

>>
>> > Verrrry funny. *"Your Honor, we have an excuse! * Our culpability i

> s
>> > mitigated, or wiped out even, because other companies steal too!"
>> > would be the defense of the crooked telecoms.

>>
>> I was afraid that my point was too complex for you. *I was right. *Th

> e
>> problem is that you have selected as your "evidence" numbers that
>> have no meaning unless put into relative terms. *How does the
>> percentage compare to other industries? *How many of the complaints
>> were valid?

> *
>> How many of the complaints were not made by consumers of the product?
>> * How many of the complaints were made by disgruntled employees?
>>
>> Your presentation of 'evidence' would be ripped to shreds by even the
>> most inexperienced opposing counsel. *Your fatal flaw is that you
>> assum

> e
>> that the existence of a complaint immediately correlates to the
>> existence of a problem. *Nothing could be further from the truth.
>>
>>
>>
>> > And nitwits like you.

>>
>> It would appear that we are not the nitwits.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Ha * *ha * * *ha.- Hide quoted text -

>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
> corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in courts
> of law.
>
> You can usually pore over a complaint with some skepticism and tell
> whether the complainer is whining or whether he has a legitimate
> gripe. Some complaints are whines, some are on the line between
> believable and unbelievable, and some are quite detailed and entirely
> credible. The complaint of the originator of this thread is quite
> credible.
>


The complaint of the originator of this post is quite easy to defend
against. All Sprint has to show is that no company paid employee had
any hand in the transaction that created the charge. Even first year
law students understand that.

I want to retract my earlier observation that you must be a PD, You
don't possess the minimum skills for the job. You must be one of those
degree mill ambulance chasers.

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2009, 04:27 AM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:f63ee9e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c74d6@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:

> On May 19, 7:19*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> innews:cd2539

> 19-55dc-4ec1-8be2-8ff02b9f8d0b@l32g2...oglegroups.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 17, 4:03*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> innews:2c21d4
>> > 61-8e9b-4631-b9d5-67ab98a2f...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> > On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> >> innews:0f7654
>> >> > 7c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f7...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> >> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> >> >> >> innews:3d9d6e
>> >> >> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>>
>> >> >> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the
>> >> >> >> >> following innews:f94f97
>> >> >> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...

@t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >> > :

>>
>> >> >> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon
>> >> >> >> > wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>>
>> >> >> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent
>> >> >> >> > practices by the wireless companies has raged across the
>> >> >> >> > USA. *

>>
>> >> >> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a
>> >> >> >> similar search of other industries was done?

>>
>> >> >> > State your case, Bluto.

>>
>> >> >> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the
>> >> >> question
>> >> > *was
>> >> >> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed
>> >> >> outrage at the number of complaints that have been filed. *I
>> >> >> aske

> d
>> >> >> how that volume compared to other industries. *I assumed that
>> >> >> you did that research bas
>> >> > ed
>> >> >> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not
>> >> >> the case
>> >> > and
>> >> >> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.

>>
>> >> >> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your
>> >> >> clients than you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your
>> >> >> data gathering skills.- Hi
>> >> > de quoted text -

>>
>> >> > Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam. *

>>
>> >> No. *I was pointing out the fatal flaw in your arugument and your
>> >> response simply proves that I'm right. *The flaw is that the
>> >> cellula

> r
>> >> industry has no more of a tainted record than any other industry
>> >> in terms of the complaints that can be found on the internet. *

>>
>> >> Your own words- "I just did a little googling with "sprint sued,"
>> >> "verizon wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on." *The
>> >> number of hits would not have varied much at all if you had used
>> >> Walmart, Goodyear, General Electric, Kroger or any number of other
>> >> corporate titan. *Your claim that, "For the last several years a
>> >> pandemic of fraudulent practices by the wireless companies has
>> >> raged across the USA" would have been put into a logical
>> >> persective and shown not to be the unique sitaution you are trying
>> >> to make it out to be.

>>
>> >> > This is usenet, not
>> >> > the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
>> >> > stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.

>>
>> >> But you've only stated limited facts. *The fact that you did not
>> >> mak

> e
>> >> the comparison to other industries shows that you knew that it
>> >> would weaken your case or that you were too stupid to realize that
>> >> it might help your case if the numbers fell in your favor. *So
>> >> which is it?

> *
>>
>> >> > If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis
>> >> > Brief, hire it done.

>>
>> >> No need for that with Google available. *I have much better uses
>> >> for my money than padding the expense accounts of corporate
>> >> leeches.

>>
>> >> > Jerk.

>>
>> >> And with that, I know the nerve was struck. *And if that's the
>> >> best you can do, I guess I'm done wasting my time with you. * For
>> >> someone who professes to be so smart, you haven't provided
>> >> anything to back that claim up. *You totally avoided my point here
>> >> because you knew that it would expose your cause as one that
>> >> doesn't merit the outrage you are trying to gather.

>>
>> >> You must be a Public Defender, because I'm now having a hard time
>> >> believing that you possess the skills people would freely pay
>> >> for.- Hide
>> > quoted text -

>>
>> > Verrrry funny. *"Your Honor, we have an excuse! * Our culpability i

> s
>> > mitigated, or wiped out even, because other companies steal too!"
>> > would be the defense of the crooked telecoms.

>>
>> I was afraid that my point was too complex for you. *I was right. *Th

> e
>> problem is that you have selected as your "evidence" numbers that
>> have no meaning unless put into relative terms. *How does the
>> percentage compare to other industries? *How many of the complaints
>> were valid?

> *
>> How many of the complaints were not made by consumers of the product?
>> * How many of the complaints were made by disgruntled employees?
>>
>> Your presentation of 'evidence' would be ripped to shreds by even the
>> most inexperienced opposing counsel. *Your fatal flaw is that you
>> assum

> e
>> that the existence of a complaint immediately correlates to the
>> existence of a problem. *Nothing could be further from the truth.
>>
>>
>>
>> > And nitwits like you.

>>
>> It would appear that we are not the nitwits.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Ha * *ha * * *ha.- Hide quoted text -

>>
>> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
> corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in courts
> of law.


Very poor logic used there. Your fear of fact shows that you have a
very shaky case.

>
> You can usually pore over a complaint with some skepticism and tell
> whether the complainer is whining or whether he has a legitimate
> gripe. Some complaints are whines, some are on the line between
> believable and unbelievable, and some are quite detailed and entirely
> credible. The complaint of the originator of this thread is quite
> credible.
>


And the vast number of complaints you so boldly regaled us with earlier-
what about them? Does that mean I can pick out a dozen of the
complaints you mentioned and correctly determine that all of them were
indeed inaccurate and represented no issue at the company level, and
then use my findings to state that 100% of the complaints reviewed were
found to be spurious and therefore they all must be?

Be careful how you answer that one- you will be arguing against your own
logic.




Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009, 01:08 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 21, 12:17*am, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following innews:f63ee9e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c74d6@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 19, 7:19*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> innews:cd2539

> > 19-55dc-4ec1-8be2-8ff02b9f8...@l32g2000vba.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > On May 17, 4:03*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> innews:2c21d4
> >> > 61-8e9b-4631-b9d5-67ab98a2f...@f16g2000vbf.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> > On May 15, 7:06*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> >> innews:0f7654
> >> >> > 7c-1fc0-4f2a-b72d-0c8eba8f7...@e20g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> >> > On May 12, 5:36*pm, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >> >> >> >> innews:3d9d6e
> >> >> >> > 93-f75a-440d-b0d7-2feda75a8...@v17g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> >> >> > On May 9, 10:59*am, The Bob <nos...@bob.com> wrote:
> >> >> >> >> >> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the
> >> >> >> >> >> following innews:f94f97
> >> >> >> >> > 2e-9014-429e-be4d-96a8692a8...

>
> @t11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >> >> >> > :

>
> >> >> >> >> > I just did a little googling with "sprint sued," "verizon
> >> >> >> >> > wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on.

>
> >> >> >> >> > For the last several years a pandemic of fraudulent
> >> >> >> >> > practices by the wireless companies has raged across the
> >> >> >> >> > USA. *

>
> >> >> >> >> How different was the volume of these complaints when a
> >> >> >> >> similar search of other industries was done?

>
> >> >> >> > State your case, Bluto.

>
> >> >> >> I thought my case was very clearly stated. *I also thought the
> >> >> >> question
> >> >> > *was
> >> >> >> very clearly posed- you singled out an industry and expressed
> >> >> >> outrage at the number of complaints that have been filed. *I
> >> >> >> aske

> > d
> >> >> >> how that volume compared to other industries. *I assumed that
> >> >> >> you did that research bas
> >> >> > ed
> >> >> >> on your outrage. *Based on your response, that clearly is not
> >> >> >> the case
> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> you were very poorly armed to answer the question.

>
> >> >> >> As a lawyer, I would hope that you do more research for your
> >> >> >> clients than you did in this case- it speaks poorly of your
> >> >> >> data gathering skills.- Hi
> >> >> > de quoted text -

>
> >> >> > Shut up, BlutARSEky, you're just blowing steam. *

>
> >> >> No. *I was pointing out the fatal flaw in your arugument and your
> >> >> response simply proves that I'm right. *The flaw is that the
> >> >> cellula

> > r
> >> >> industry has no more of a tainted record than any other industry
> >> >> in terms of the complaints that can be found on the internet. *

>
> >> >> Your own words- "I just did a little googling with "sprint sued,"
> >> >> "verizon wireless sued," AT&T mobile" sued," and so on." *The
> >> >> number of hits would not have varied much at all if you had used
> >> >> Walmart, Goodyear, General Electric, Kroger or any number of other
> >> >> corporate titan. *Your claim that, "For the last several years a
> >> >> pandemic of fraudulent practices by the wireless companies has
> >> >> raged across the USA" would have been put into a logical
> >> >> persective and shown not to be the unique sitaution you are trying
> >> >> to make it out to be.

>
> >> >> > This is usenet, not
> >> >> > the courtroom, and I have generally in every case I stated here,
> >> >> > stated it thoroughly and with authorities cited.

>
> >> >> But you've only stated limited facts. *The fact that you did not
> >> >> mak

> > e
> >> >> the comparison to other industries shows that you knew that it
> >> >> would weaken your case or that you were too stupid to realize that
> >> >> it might help your case if the numbers fell in your favor. *So
> >> >> which is it?

> > *

>
> >> >> > If you want a big formal comparison with cites or a Brandeis
> >> >> > Brief, hire it done.

>
> >> >> No need for that with Google available. *I have much better uses
> >> >> for my money than padding the expense accounts of corporate
> >> >> leeches.

>
> >> >> > Jerk.

>
> >> >> And with that, I know the nerve was struck. *And if that's the
> >> >> best you can do, I guess I'm done wasting my time with you. * For
> >> >> someone who professes to be so smart, you haven't provided
> >> >> anything to back that claim up. *You totally avoided my point here
> >> >> because you knew that it would expose your cause as one that
> >> >> doesn't merit the outrage you are trying to gather.

>
> >> >> You must be a Public Defender, because I'm now having a hard time
> >> >> believing that you possess the skills people would freely pay
> >> >> for.- Hide
> >> > quoted text -

>
> >> > Verrrry funny. *"Your Honor, we have an excuse! * Our culpability i

> > s
> >> > mitigated, or wiped out even, because other companies steal too!"
> >> > would be the defense of the crooked telecoms.

>
> >> I was afraid that my point was too complex for you. *I was right. *Th

> > e
> >> problem is that you have selected as your "evidence" numbers that
> >> have no meaning unless put into relative terms. *How does the
> >> percentage compare to other industries? *How many of the complaints
> >> were valid?

> > *
> >> How many of the complaints were not made by consumers of the product?
> >> * How many of the complaints were made by disgruntled employees?

>
> >> Your presentation of 'evidence' would be ripped to shreds by even the
> >> most inexperienced opposing counsel. *Your fatal flaw is that you
> >> assum

> > e
> >> that the existence of a complaint immediately correlates to the
> >> existence of a problem. *Nothing could be further from the truth.

>
> >> > And nitwits like you.

>
> >> It would appear that we are not the nitwits.

>
> >> > Ha * *ha * * *ha.- Hide quoted text -

>
> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> >> - Show quoted text -

>
> > The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
> > corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in courts
> > of law.

>
> > You can usually pore over a complaint with some skepticism and tell
> > whether the complainer is whining or whether he has a legitimate
> > gripe. * Some complaints are whines, some are on the line between
> > believable and unbelievable, and some are quite detailed and entirely
> > credible. * The complaint of the originator of this thread is quite
> > credible.

>
> The complaint of the originator of this post is quite easy to defend
> against. *All Sprint has to show is that no company paid employee had
> any hand in the transaction that created the charge. *Even first year
> law students understand that.


Bwaaahhhhaaaaaa! Cite?


Note to Alkook: Are you the shady character posting all that spam?

And why am I not surprised you'd use a silly prop in your last post.
Props are juvenile.

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009, 01:19 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 21, 12:27*am, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following innews:f63ee9e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c74d6@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:

[...]
>
> > The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
> > corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in courts
> > of law.

>
> Very poor logic used there. *Your fear of fact shows that you have a
> very shaky case.


What facts? What is the burden of proof to a civil jury? Is it
beyond a reasonable doubt or to a moral certainty?
>
>
>
> > You can usually pore over a complaint with some skepticism and tell
> > whether the complainer is whining or whether he has a legitimate
> > gripe. * Some complaints are whines, some are on the line between
> > believable and unbelievable, and some are quite detailed and entirely
> > credible. * The complaint of the originator of this thread is quite
> > credible.

>
> And the vast number of complaints you so boldly regaled us with earlier-
> what about them? *Does that mean I can pick out a dozen of the
> complaints you mentioned and correctly determine that all of them were
> indeed inaccurate and represented no issue at the company level, and
> then use my findings to state that 100% of the complaints reviewed were
> found to be spurious and therefore they all must be?
>
> Be careful how you answer that one- you will be arguing against your own
> logic.-


Yawn. The evidence from all the lawsuits and judgments against the
wireless telecoms shows they're hot at it, and have been hot at it,
stealing from their customers. The Bush Administration, the FTC, and
FCC and various lazy and Republican attorneys general gave them green
lights. And now the tables are turning and you're whining.

The minute a ringer like you got in a jury pool, you'd fluoresce like
a rapist's DNA under a blacklight.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009, 01:31 PM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 21, 12:17*am, John BlutARSEky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:

> I want to retract my earlier observation that you must be a PD, *You
> don't possess the minimum skills for the job. *You must be one of those
> degree mill ambulance chasers.
>

Yawn.

Sorry to disappoint you, Bluto. I graduated at a fully accredited and
acclaimed law school in a respected state university system
established two centuries ago. I passed the bar exam on my first
attempt.

It is easy to see that you are a psychological misfit and a bit of a
simpleton, but that does not excuse your projection of your matchbook
techie school education onto me. You should try to bear up under your
own insecurities and moral failures and not try to project them onto
others. Your effort to sandpaper away the sins of the sleazy wireless
companies and silly little personal attacks are amusing.

Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009, 03:19 PM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:8a7ec290-2c47-4844-a523-f3222619c6d3@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com:

> On May 21, 12:27*am, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>> innews:f63ee9

> e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c74d6@q14g2...oglegroups.com:
> [...]
>>
>> > The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
>> > corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in
>> > courts of law.

>>
>> Very poor logic used there. *Your fear of fact shows that you have a
>> very shaky case.

>
> What facts? What is the burden of proof to a civil jury? Is it
> beyond a reasonable doubt or to a moral certainty?
>>
>>
>>
>> > You can usually pore over a complaint with some skepticism and tell
>> > whether the complainer is whining or whether he has a legitimate
>> > gripe. * Some complaints are whines, some are on the line between
>> > believable and unbelievable, and some are quite detailed and
>> > entirely credible. * The complaint of the originator of this thread
>> > is quite credible.

>>
>> And the vast number of complaints you so boldly regaled us with
>> earlier- what about them? *Does that mean I can pick out a dozen of
>> the complaints you mentioned and correctly determine that all of them
>> were indeed inaccurate and represented no issue at the company level,
>> and then use my findings to state that 100% of the complaints
>> reviewed were found to be spurious and therefore they all must be?
>>
>> Be careful how you answer that one- you will be arguing against your
>> own logic.-

>
> Yawn. The evidence from all the lawsuits and judgments against the
> wireless telecoms shows they're hot at it, and have been hot at it,
> stealing from their customers. The Bush Administration, the FTC, and
> FCC and various lazy and Republican attorneys general gave them green
> lights. And now the tables are turning and you're whining.


I'm not whining. You are avoiding the question, which simply shows the
weakness of your argument. And now you have shown that yours is nothing
more than a party agenda.

>
> The minute a ringer like you got in a jury pool, you'd fluoresce like
> a rapist's DNA under a blacklight.
>


Ringer? How do you figure?


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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009, 03:24 PM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
news:e67cec1c-a773-4406-9aee-1edbc30bd8b0@j32g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:

> On May 21, 12:17*am, John BlutARSEky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>
>> I want to retract my earlier observation that you must be a PD, *You
>> don't possess the minimum skills for the job. *You must be one of

those
>> degree mill ambulance chasers.
>>

> Yawn.
>
> Sorry to disappoint you, Bluto. I graduated at a fully accredited and
> acclaimed law school in a respected state university system
> established two centuries ago. I passed the bar exam on my first
> attempt.


So did many of the sleazy lawyers that taint the profession. Your
point?

>
> It is easy to see that you are a psychological misfit and a bit of a
> simpleton, but that does not excuse your projection of your matchbook
> techie school education onto me.


Now that was funny.

> You should try to bear up under your
> own insecurities and moral failures and not try to project them onto
> others.


What insecurities and moral failures? You seem to think you know who
and what I am, yet you couldn't be further from the truth. You are

> Your effort to sandpaper away the sins of the sleazy wireless
> companies and silly little personal attacks are amusing.
>


What efforts? Showing that you are an idiot? That has nothing to do
with the industry- you'd still be an idiot if we talking about anything
else.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2009, 04:42 PM
Richard B. Gilbert
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

John Blutarsky wrote:
> jl <jls1016@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
> news:8a7ec290-2c47-4844-a523-f3222619c6d3@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On May 21, 12:27 am, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
>>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
>>> innews:f63ee9

>> e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c74d6@q14g2...oglegroups.com:
>> [...]
>>>> The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
>>>> corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in
>>>> courts of law.
>>> Very poor logic used there. Your fear of fact shows that you have a
>>> very shaky case.

>> What facts? What is the burden of proof to a civil jury? Is it
>> beyond a reasonable doubt or to a moral certainty?


For a civil case, the standard is "preponderance of the evidence".
In English, that means that the side the presents the most believable
case, wins.

I recall a story about a case involving two women who collided while
backing up their cars.

The jury concluded that both were lying like rugs about looking where
they were going and awarded cross damages of one dollar each!

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2009, 11:16 AM
jl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Unauthorized 3rd Party Billings By Sprint?

On May 22, 12:42*pm, "Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilber...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> John Blutarsky wrote:
> > jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following in
> >news:8a7ec290-2c47-4844-a523-f3222619c6d3@z5g2000vba.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> On May 21, 12:27 am, John Blutarsky <bl...@ah.com> wrote:
> >>> jl <jls1...@bellsouth.net> amazed us all with the following
> >>> innews:f63ee9
> >> e0-1794-41a8-9852-03229c9c7...@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
> >> *[...]
> >>>> The legitimacy of so many complaints readily found by googling is
> >>>> corroborated by copious lawsuits, settlements, and judgments in
> >>>> courts of law.
> >>> Very poor logic used there. *Your fear of fact shows that you have a
> >>> very shaky case.
> >> What facts? *What is the burden of proof to a civil jury? *Is it
> >> beyond a reasonable doubt or to a moral certainty?

>
> For a civil case, the standard is "preponderance of the evidence".
> In English, that means that the side the presents the most believable
> case, wins.
>
> I recall a story about a case involving two women who collided while
> backing up their cars.


From Snopes.com?
>
> The jury concluded that both were lying like rugs about looking where
> they were going and awarded cross damages of one dollar each!- Hide quoted text -


Cite?


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