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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 06:31 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:02:15 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 15/10/2009 16:38, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> Now, if you really want to burn some time, go unto the FCC comment
>> search pile at:
>> <http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/comsrch_v2.cgi>
>> Inscribe a docket number such as 09-65 into the first box (Proceeding)
>> and see what floats to the surface. Most of it looks like "don't
>> forget about us" advertising for various organizations from lobbyists.
>> 09-51 returns the first 100 comments out of up to 10,000. The CTIA
>> stuff can be retreived by adding "CTIA" into box 4 (On behalf of)
>> which returns 23 comments. The first few comments I read discussed
>> the benefits provided by the CTIA for the handicapped, for CO2
>> reduction (smart-grid), and requests for speedy relocation of existing
>> (unathorized) 700MHz and AWS-1 systems. If you find anything useful,
>> please let me know.


>A quick try of that site came across this:
><http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020039 747>


Thanks. That's the original comment by the CTIA claiming that 800Mhz
of spectrum is needed.

The first thing that caught my eye is:
Watching a YouTube video consumes 100 times the bandwidth
of a voice call.
Skype uses 30-70Kbits/sec. YouTube HD seems to have an upper limit
around 350Kbits/sec download. That would be 5 to 10 times the
bandwidth.

Other amazing facts include:
African Americans are the most active users of the mobile
Internet, with 29 percent of African Americans and 29 percent
of Hispanics reporting that they use the Internet on their
handheld devices on a typical day.

By 2020, mobile devices will be the primary Internet devices
for most people in the world.

I guess the telcos should just give up on FTTH, FIOS, cable modems,
etc as cellular internet is predicted to render them obsolete.

On Pg 9, is an interesting chart comparing iPhone and Smartphone
internet usage. The only problem is that it's 22 months out of date.
I wonder why they would use such old data.

Some of the future projects remind me of the WorldCom claims that
internet traffic doubles every 3-4 months.
<http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/itcom.internet.growth.pdf> Sec 3.
The dramatic increase in cellular broadband uptake is also inflated
due to the mandatory requirement for obtaining a broadband plan with
the subsidized purchase of a smartphone.

However, the CTIA does make some important points.
With just under 410 MHz of spectrum a number that includes
AWS-1, 700 MHz and BRS allocations that may not yet be
available for use U.S. wireless carriers provide service
to more than 270 million subscribers. With more than
651,000 subscribers served per MHz of spectrum allocated,
U.S. carrier efficiency far surpasses that of other
carriers in the OECD’s top ten countries by GDP.
See table on Pg 17.

Oddly:
...the 1755-1780 MHz band should be reallocated for licensed
CMRS use, paired with the 2155-2180 MHz spectrum.
LTE requires unpaired spectrum, which makes me wonder if the CTIA is
running a few years behind on the technology.

Enough for a first reading...


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 06:49 PM
Dennis Ferguson
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, andquickly

On 2009-10-15, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
> The mystery (for me) is why would the FCC issue two separate dockets
> for all this? I have some conspiracy theories, but I'll keep them to
> myself. Well, maybe just one... spectrum sharing sounds very much
> like the FCC wants to get into the spectrum leasing business. They
> got burned by the Nextwave bankruptcy fiasco and figure that since the
> Supreme Court thinks that auction winners are forever, even with
> non-payment, then perhaps with leasing, the FCC would have more
> control over revenue while making spectrum somewhat more affordable
> and accessible.


I also have a a conspiracy theory: the FCC is trying to find a
set of rules which increases the rewards for operators which
actually deploy stuff in the spectrum rather than just for
showing up for the auction.

Note that while Verizon share holders may have $0.45 per share
less cash after the 700 MHz auction, they gained an appreciating
asset of equivalent value: the spectrum licenses. Verizon
currently values their spectrum licenses at $71 billion, a number
which moves up with time even if Verizon doesn't make the
capital investment to use the licenses. The capital gains from
just owning the spectrum are more valuable than keeping the
money in the bank. Exclusive-use spectrum is a fine investment
whether you get around to using it (or even paying for it, just
ask Nextwave) or not, God isn't making any more of it.

If you can find a set of rules which reduces the profitability
of being a spectrum landlord and increases the relative reward
for actually using the spectrum, then you should get more use
and less sitting on blocks of empty bandwidth. I guess 2.4 GHz
is the extreme example. The spectrum itself costs nothing but
still generates a lot of economic activity, and the guys who
get rich from it are only those who facilitate its use, so
the band is just chock full of stuff.

>>I would guess that most of those are about "Broadband" rather than
>>wireless.e.g.

>
> The term "Broadband" is badly defined and badly misused. For example,
> cramming more users into public safety spectrum using narrowbanding
> (12.5KHz and eventual 6.25KHz channel spacing) has somehow become part
> of "broadbanding". I suggest we replace "broadband" with "spectrum
> management reform".


I don't know, but I thought the intention for the big block of
700 MHz spectrum put aside for public safety was to build a
nationwide CDMA2000 network, complete with PTT handsets and the like,
for exclusive public safety use. 1.25 MHz channels are pretty
broadband.

Dennis Ferguson

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 08:11 PM
Wilfried Anders
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, andquickly

Jeff Liebermann schrieb:
> [...]
> LTE requires unpaired spectrum, which makes me wonder if the CTIA is
> running a few years behind on the technology.
> [...]


LTE comes in two flavours: TDD (time division duplex) for unpaired
spectrum and FDD (frequency division duplex) for paired spectrum. FDD
should be slightly more efficient than TDD as the latter requires to
leave some unused time between eNB and UE transmit intervals.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 01:57 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:49:17 -0500, Dennis Ferguson
<dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote:

>I also have a a conspiracy theory: the FCC is trying to find a
>set of rules which increases the rewards for operators which
>actually deploy stuff in the spectrum rather than just for
>showing up for the auction.


The Reed Hundt version of the spectrum auctions was suppose to include
a "use it or lose it" clause. Instead, the FCC concentrated on the
payment aspects, and didn't really care if the spectrum sat idle. The
FCC was warned that it would take time to build a national wireless
network and is being extremely lax about reminding auction winners
that eventually, they'll have to do something. This is a rather
interesting contrast to commercial land mobile licenses and
construction permits, where licensees are expected to meet rather
rigid construction and deployment restrictions. I would be happy with
a consistent policy that works for all classes of license.

>Note that while Verizon share holders may have $0.45 per share
>less cash after the 700 MHz auction, they gained an appreciating
>asset of equivalent value: the spectrum licenses. Verizon
>currently values their spectrum licenses at $71 billion, a number
>which moves up with time even if Verizon doesn't make the
>capital investment to use the licenses.


True. However such assets are not used to balance expenditures since
they don't generate any direct, leasing, or interest revenue. From
the operating expenses point of view, the value of the spectrum is
"intangible". However, someone has to pay for the acquisition costs,
which usually means the customers.

>The capital gains from
>just owning the spectrum are more valuable than keeping the
>money in the bank. Exclusive-use spectrum is a fine investment
>whether you get around to using it (or even paying for it, just
>ask Nextwave) or not, God isn't making any more of it.


Nextwave was either brain damage at the Supreme Court level, or
brokered behind the scenes by lobbyists. The FCC will certainly not
repeat that mistake, nor allow any more auction contracts without
detailed failure to perform clauses.

Whether spectrum constitutes an entitlement is subject to debate. Just
ask the broadcasters, who for year supported the FCC quite handsomely,
and assumed this preferred status would last in perpetuity. That
didn't happen and broadcast allocations have been auctioned off to
higher bidders. I seriously expect the cellular providers to be stuck
with minimum performance deadlines and requirements or risk losing
their investments in the same manner as the broadcasters.

Incidentally, I know of a few satellite slots and allocations that are
not being used. Same with many land mobile licenses. It probably
won't be difficult finding the same in public safety. For them, the
license is not exactly an asset. It's simply too expensive to replace
at a later date. I still hear IMTS tones on the old VHF mobile phone
channels, but have never heard any traffic. The carriers are there
just as a place holder to occupy the frequency.

>If you can find a set of rules which reduces the profitability
>of being a spectrum landlord and increases the relative reward
>for actually using the spectrum, then you should get more use
>and less sitting on blocks of empty bandwidth.


That's logical but not exactly the way it works. Note that AT&T
bought 700Mhz spectrum from Vulcan Spectrum (Bill Gates and Paul
Allen). I don't think these two powerful people are going to support
an FCC that takes their abilities to speculate away.

>I guess 2.4 GHz
>is the extreme example. The spectrum itself costs nothing but
>still generates a lot of economic activity, and the guys who
>get rich from it are only those who facilitate its use, so
>the band is just chock full of stuff.


Sounds revisionist to me. What actually happened is that 2.4Ghz usage
grew so fast that the FCC didn't have a clue what to do about it. I've
seen some odd comments from the late 90's that sounded like they
wanted it to go away. There was some attempts at plugging the holes
(requirements for unique RF connectors, type certification by system,
not components), but many of those were later reversed when it was
hinted that it might kill the golden goose (like the FCC did with CB
in 1977). Learning the lesson, when the FCC finally decided to
release 50Mhz of semi-unlicensed 3.6Ghz spectrum, they a tangle of
strings attached to make sure this one didn't get away from them. I
suppose it would be ungracious to point out that services with the
LEAST amount of FCC oversight and regulation, tend to be the most
popular and successful for the users.

>> The term "Broadband" is badly defined and badly misused. For example,
>> cramming more users into public safety spectrum using narrowbanding
>> (12.5KHz and eventual 6.25KHz channel spacing) has somehow become part
>> of "broadbanding". I suggest we replace "broadband" with "spectrum
>> management reform".


>I don't know, but I thought the intention for the big block of
>700 MHz spectrum put aside for public safety was to build a
>nationwide CDMA2000 network, complete with PTT handsets and the like,
>for exclusive public safety use. 1.25 MHz channels are pretty
>broadband.


I have some opinions on the D block auction fiasco and why it failed.
The current national broadband plan for the future has little to do
with that. The D block auction was an attempt to convince the
cellular providers to build a 700Mhz with public safety as the primary
user and their commercial customers as secondary users. None of the
parties involved wanted this compromise. Cyren Call tried to work out
another compromise but couldn't get financing. In addition, the FCC
tried to nail down the details, and ended up micromanaging the
proposal including some price controls. Little wonder there were no
bids.

Reminder: The entire purpose of the Recovery Act was to create jobs
and prop up the economy. That seems to be getting lost in all the
proposals, comments, and technology discussions. How will handing
800Mhz of allocations create jobs or improve the economy?

>Dennis Ferguson

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 02:09 AM
Not Me
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, andquickly

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 12:49:17 -0500, Dennis Ferguson
> <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> I also have a a conspiracy theory: the FCC is trying to find a
>> set of rules which increases the rewards for operators which
>> actually deploy stuff in the spectrum rather than just for
>> showing up for the auction.

>
> The Reed Hundt version of the spectrum auctions was suppose to include
> a "use it or lose it" clause. Instead, the FCC concentrated on the
> payment aspects, and didn't really care if the spectrum sat idle. The
> FCC was warned that it would take time to build a national wireless
> network and is being extremely lax about reminding auction winners
> that eventually, they'll have to do something. This is a rather
> interesting contrast to commercial land mobile licenses and
> construction permits, where licensees are expected to meet rather
> rigid construction and deployment restrictions. I would be happy with
> a consistent policy that works for all classes of license.


Same goes for use of oil and gas leases on public lands.

The oilco's bank them un-exploited, then clamor for more.

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 02:09 AM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly

On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:11:01 +0200, Wilfried Anders
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>Jeff Liebermann schrieb:
>> [...]
>> LTE requires unpaired spectrum, which makes me wonder if the CTIA is
>> running a few years behind on the technology.
>> [...]

>
>LTE comes in two flavours: TDD (time division duplex) for unpaired
>spectrum and FDD (frequency division duplex) for paired spectrum. FDD
>should be slightly more efficient than TDD as the latter requires to
>leave some unused time between eNB and UE transmit intervals.


Thanks. I didn't know that FDD allowed for paired spectrum
allocations. However, since various members of the CTIA already own
suitable unpaired spectrum, I'm wondering why the CTIA is asking for
paired. It would be easier to go TDD unpaired. AT&T will be doing
(real soon now) LTE on former TV channels 54 and 59 which I guess will
be FDD, paired spectrum. My appologies for the misleading info.

Speaking of unpaired spectrum... It would be interesting if Qualcomm
were to dump Mediaflo and convince the FCC to reassign their former TV
channel 55 national allocation for TDD LTE. Just a thought.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 03:01 PM
LR
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, andquickly

On 14/10/2009 21:38, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:11:37 -0700, John Navas
> <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> CTIA, the industry body running the San Diego, California, event, has
>> laid its cards on the table - it reckons that mobile telecommunications
>> needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly.
>>
>> MORE:<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/10/us_radio_spectrum/>

>
> The original ex parte filing (FCC GN Docket 09-51) is at:
> <http://www.ctia.org/media/press/body.cfm/prid/1866>
> This is the proposed "National Broadband Plan for our Future" as
> required by the Recovery Act of 2009. It also involves "Fostering
> Innovation and Investment in the Wireless Communications Market" (FCC
> GN Docket 09-157). There have been about 100 comments about the plan
> so far and growing. However, the FCC allowed only 15 days between
> request for replies to comments. Obviously, the FCC is in a terrible
> hurry to make all this happen. The CTIA requested an extension for
> the comment deadline so it can read them all (about 3,000 pages so
> far).
> <http://files.ctia.org/pdf/filings/091002_Competition_and_Innovation_Extension_Reques t_FINAL.pdf>
> I don't if they received the extension.

The deadline has been extended until Nov. 5 2009
<http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-2206A1.pdf>

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 03:35 PM
LR
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, andquickly

On 14/10/2009 21:38, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> Oddly, not only does the CTIA want 800MHz within 6 years, it seems to
> want it for not quite cellular applications (mHealth and Smart Grids
> were mentioned).
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHealth>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_grid>
> Assuming that the 800MHz of additional bandwidth will go to consumer
> cellular and mobile data, just might be wrong.
>

Out of curiosity I had a look at the Ex Parte filings for Verizon and
Comcast and they both had references to Healthcare.
Comcast
<http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020039 450>
Verizon
<http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020041 116>
<http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020038 623>
<http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020038 236>


Other providers docs are available using
<http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/comsrch_v2.cgi>

Charter
<http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=7020041 023>

etc...

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 06:06 PM
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:35:57 +0100, LR <lrme@privacy.net> wrote:

>Out of curiosity I had a look at the Ex Parte filings for Verizon and
>Comcast and they both had references to Healthcare.


Yep. Some of the standard tag lines are:

1. It's for the children.
2. It's for improving rural connectivity and service (which sucks due
to high cost of infrastructure per user).
3. It's for better national literacy and education.
4. It's for improved "access" (without ever defining what is meant by
access).
5. Will promote employment (required for Recovery Act funding).
6. Will be part of Health Information Technology (fashionable during
healthcare discussions).
7. Will improve national energy efficiency (Smart Grid).
8. Will enhance communications for national security.
9. It will help us compete with other countries, all of which seem to
have superior technology, infrastructure, regulatory climate, rates,
etc.

and a mess of others. The few comments I've read include elements of
all of these, some of which are a stretch. This is fairly normal for
FCC filings. The tag lines are basic requirements to claim alleged
compatibility will stated objectives. The real intentions are rarely
specified, much less detailed for public consumption.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 06:41 PM
LR
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, andquickly

On 16/10/2009 18:06, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:35:57 +0100, LR<lrme@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Out of curiosity I had a look at the Ex Parte filings for Verizon and
>> Comcast and they both had references to Healthcare.

>
> Yep. Some of the standard tag lines are:
>
> 1. It's for the children.
> 2. It's for improving rural connectivity and service (which sucks due
> to high cost of infrastructure per user).
> 3. It's for better national literacy and education.
> 4. It's for improved "access" (without ever defining what is meant by
> access).
> 5. Will promote employment (required for Recovery Act funding).
> 6. Will be part of Health Information Technology (fashionable during
> healthcare discussions).
> 7. Will improve national energy efficiency (Smart Grid).
> 8. Will enhance communications for national security.
> 9. It will help us compete with other countries, all of which seem to
> have superior technology, infrastructure, regulatory climate, rates,
> etc.
>
> and a mess of others. The few comments I've read include elements of
> all of these, some of which are a stretch. This is fairly normal for
> FCC filings. The tag lines are basic requirements to claim alleged
> compatibility will stated objectives. The real intentions are rarely
> specified, much less detailed for public consumption.
>

I was slightly amused by Charters pushing of "Targeted Advertising" with
their quote of "For example, in the study that Public
Knowledge cited in its comments, a majority of respondents “agreed or
strongly agreed that they prefer having free access to online content
that has advertising accompanying it (similar to television shows on
commercial broadcasts) rather than having to pay for the content.” Their
reference showed that 51% agreed, some majority, however what their
reference also reported was that:-
"Do You Click on Web Advertisements? -- In a series of new questions in
the current Digital Future Project, Internet users express strong
negative views about advertising online -- both through their limited
use of it and in their opinions about it. More than half of Internet
users (52 percent) said they never click on Web advertisements, and only
six percent do so sometimes or often. Users are even less enthusiastic
about purchasing decisions based on Web advertisements; 61 percent of
Internet users said they never buy products that they learned about from
a Web advertisement."
<http://www.digitalcenter.org/pdf/2009_Digital_Future_Project_Release_Highlights.pdf >


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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2009, 05:51 AM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly

On Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:16:58 -0400, Cyrus Afzali <pnsmnyv@lnubb.pbz>
wrote in <svind5ln1oodqq4dp85h7ee4bv322l2pgk@4ax.com>:

>On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 08:36:30 -0700, John Navas
><spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 08:36:57 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>>wrote in <4ad1fb48$0$1615$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>:
>>
>>>You can see why AT&T was in no hurry to enable MMS and why they're in no
>>>hurry to enable throttling, two features that have been available on
>>>other smart phones for years. Apple's been vilified, rather unfairly,
>>>over service and feature issues that are beyond their control. On the
>>>other hand,remember that AT&T was their second choice in networks for
>>>the iPhone and they probably had a good idea that the AT&T network
>>>wasn't ready for the volume of data the iPhone would generate,
>>>especially not the 3G network which is why they first came out with a
>>>non-3G model.

>>
>>Total nonsense. As usual.

>
>Still making friends, hey Navvy That Web site's still looking state
>of the art, by the way.


What's your website URL?

--
Best regards,
John <http:/navasgroup.com>

"Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea - massive,
difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind
boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it." -Gene Spafford

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2009, 05:55 AM
John Navas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly

On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:13:25 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote in
<_bKdnYWhX4yd0EvXnZ2dnUVZ_opi4p2d@speakeasy.net> :

>John Navas wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:49:01 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote in
>> <4KidnWHHaNtlnUvXnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> :
>>
>>> John Navas wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:08:39 -0400, News <News@Groups.Name> wrote in
>>>> <-fudnfKDoYpKwknXnZ2dnUVZ_opi4p2d@speakeasy.net>:
>>>>
>>>>> John Navas wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:55:11 +0200, Wilfried Anders
>>>>>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in <hb053f$19l$03$1@news.t-online.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LR schrieb:
>>>>>>>> Wilfried Anders wrote:
>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>> LTE exists in both TDD and FDD flavors, as does UMTS.
>>>>>>>> In the US?
>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution#Frequency_bands_and_chann el_bandwidths>
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> AFAIK, there are no commercial LTE installtions active anywhere in the
>>>>>>> world, be it TDD or FDD. Once a US operator is issued unpaired spectrum,
>>>>>>> and once the technology is commercially available, there is nothing to
>>>>>>> keep them from setting up an LTE TDD network.
>>>>>> True, although there have been field trials for the past couple of years
>>>>>> that have produced very good results.
>>>>> Good enough not to implement, apparently.
>>>> Implementation has been moving forward according to plan.
>>> Which I'm sure you can cite. Right now...

>>
>> I can. Apparently you can't.

>
>Your claim isn't mine, moron.


Didn't think so. Thanks for the confirmation.

With that insult you concede the debate. Thanks for saving me the time.
And feel free to rant on without me -- I'm giving you the last word.

--
John

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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:07 AM
John Blutarsky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: NEWS: mobile telecommunications needs 800MHz of spectrum, and quickly

John Navas <spamfilter1@navasgroup.com> wrote in
news:h9gqd510t02oe554asoaeaj7p1r54b9i0m@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:13:25 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote in
> <_bKdnYWhX4yd0EvXnZ2dnUVZ_opi4p2d@speakeasy.net> :
>
>>John Navas wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:49:01 -0400, News <News@Group.Name> wrote in
>>> <4KidnWHHaNtlnUvXnZ2dnUVZ_rqdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> :
>>>
>>>> John Navas wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:08:39 -0400, News <News@Groups.Name> wrote
>>>>> in <-fudnfKDoYpKwknXnZ2dnUVZ_opi4p2d@speakeasy.net>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> John Navas wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:55:11 +0200, Wilfried Anders
>>>>>>> <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>> <hb053f$19l$03$1@news.t-online.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LR schrieb:
>>>>>>>>> Wilfried Anders wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>>> LTE exists in both TDD and FDD flavors, as does UMTS.
>>>>>>>>> In the US?
>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Lo...ution#Frequenc
>>>>>>>>> y_bands_and_channel_bandwidths> [...]
>>>>>>>> AFAIK, there are no commercial LTE installtions active anywhere
>>>>>>>> in the world, be it TDD or FDD. Once a US operator is issued
>>>>>>>> unpaired spectrum, and once the technology is commercially
>>>>>>>> available, there is nothing to keep them from setting up an LTE
>>>>>>>> TDD network.
>>>>>>> True, although there have been field trials for the past couple
>>>>>>> of years that have produced very good results.
>>>>>> Good enough not to implement, apparently.
>>>>> Implementation has been moving forward according to plan.
>>>> Which I'm sure you can cite. Right now...
>>>
>>> I can. Apparently you can't.

>>
>>Your claim isn't mine, moron.

>
> Didn't think so. Thanks for the confirmation.
>
> With that insult you concede the debate. Thanks for saving me the
> time. And feel free to rant on without me -- I'm giving you the last
> word.
>


He conceeded nothing, Novice. He was asking you to back up your claims,
which you didn't. You lose this one- add it to the long list.

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