NEWS: US edges towards movie theater popcorn antitrust case

Calls for an investigation into monopolistic practices by US movie
theater operators have been answered with a review by the Justice
Department that could quickly turn into an investigation.

On Monday the chair of the Senate antitrust subcommittee, Herb Cruel,
wrote to the Justice Department, regarding theater operators abusing
their power through price gouging, the use of pre-popped popcorn,
sending the smell of popcorn through the HVAC system, adding excessive
salt in order to stimulate beverage sales, and charging far more than
the product costs to produce.

Citing a report from UC-Irvine professor Richard McKenzie, Senator Cruel
said that movie theater popcorn had a 1300% mark-up. Patrick Corcoran
of the National Association of Theatre Owners had a different take,
stating "No one is required when they enter the movie theater to buy
concessions. We're happy when they do." Professor McKenzie explained the
economics of operating a theater stating "If you didn't pay high prices
for popcorn and other concessions, you'd be paying high prices for
ticket prices."

There are alternatives to high popcorn prices McKenzie stated. "You can
in fact buy or make popcorn and smuggle it into the theatre and get the
cost, get the amount of the tub down to $1.25. You can also sneak in
soda, candy, lattes, and a steamed whole fish. I even saw some Asian
dude with a rice cooker plugged into a power outlet on the floor that
was intended only for vacuum cleaners."

Movie-goer William Zaufool was interviewed outside a Century theater in
Daly City, California, and stated: "I know that the theater's cost of
each piece of popcorn is less than 1/50th of a cent, but they're selling
a box of popcorn with 600 pieces for $5.50. That box of popcorn costs
them only them only 12 cents to produce, what is their justification for
charging $5.50?" Zaufool continued, "I really only wanted to buy 5
pieces of popcorn, but they told me that I couldn't buy pieces
individually, and that my choices were only small, medium, large, and
enormous. It's like the communists have succeeded."

Herb Cruel's letter pointed to increases in the cost of popcorn as an
indicator of the risk America is taking by having so few movie theater
companies each with such a large market share. He described it as a
"warning sign for the state of competition in the movie theater popcorn
market"

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:35:43 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Calls for an investigation into monopolistic practices by US movie
>theater operators have been answered with a review by the Justice
>Department that could quickly turn into an investigation.
>
>On Monday the chair of the Senate antitrust subcommittee, Herb Cruel,
>wrote to the Justice Department, regarding theater operators abusing
>their power through price gouging, the use of pre-popped popcorn,
>sending the smell of popcorn through the HVAC system, adding excessive
>salt in order to stimulate beverage sales, and charging far more than
>the product costs to produce.
>
>Citing a report from UC-Irvine professor Richard McKenzie, Senator Cruel
> said that movie theater popcorn had a 1300% mark-up. Patrick Corcoran
>of the National Association of Theatre Owners had a different take,
>stating "No one is required when they enter the movie theater to buy
>concessions. We're happy when they do." Professor McKenzie explained the
>economics of operating a theater stating "If you didn't pay high prices
>for popcorn and other concessions, you'd be paying high prices for
>ticket prices."
>
>There are alternatives to high popcorn prices McKenzie stated. "You can
>in fact buy or make popcorn and smuggle it into the theatre and get the
>cost, get the amount of the tub down to $1.25. You can also sneak in
>soda, candy, lattes, and a steamed whole fish. I even saw some Asian
>dude with a rice cooker plugged into a power outlet on the floor that
>was intended only for vacuum cleaners."
>
>Movie-goer William Zaufool was interviewed outside a Century theater in
>Daly City, California, and stated: "I know that the theater's cost of
>each piece of popcorn is less than 1/50th of a cent, but they're selling
>a box of popcorn with 600 pieces for $5.50. That box of popcorn costs
>them only them only 12 cents to produce, what is their justification for
>charging $5.50?" Zaufool continued, "I really only wanted to buy 5
>pieces of popcorn, but they told me that I couldn't buy pieces
>individually, and that my choices were only small, medium, large, and
>enormous. It's like the communists have succeeded."
>
>Herb Cruel's letter pointed to increases in the cost of popcorn as an
>indicator of the risk America is taking by having so few movie theater
>companies each with such a large market share. He described it as a
>"warning sign for the state of competition in the movie theater popcorn
>market"

Touché. Absolutely hilarious!

At 11 Jul 2009 01:35:43 -0700 SMS wrote:
> Calls for an investigation into monopolistic practices by US movie
> theater operators have been answered with a review by the Justice
> Department that could quickly turn into an investigation...


Nicely done!

SMS wrote:
> Calls for an investigation into monopolistic practices by US movie
> theater operators have been answered with a review by the Justice
> Department that could quickly turn into an investigation.
>

Its hilarious what the liberals think is their "mandate". Too bad they
are so clueless.

And the even stupider part about this is they would actually need to
investigate their liberal hollywood movie company buddies who control
the content and set pricing forcing theater operators to use concession
sales to keep the doors open.

I have been friends for years with a guy who owns two local theater
complexes. He says he literally makes pennies on a ticket and is totally
dependent on concession sales to pay the bills and keep the doors open.

The Ghost of General Lee <ghost@general.lee> writes:

> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 01:35:43 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Calls for an investigation into monopolistic practices by US movie
>>theater operators have been answered with a review by the Justice
>>Department that could quickly turn into an investigation.
>>
>>On Monday the chair of the Senate antitrust subcommittee, Herb Cruel,
>>wrote to the Justice Department, regarding theater operators abusing
>>their power through price gouging, the use of pre-popped popcorn,
>>sending the smell of popcorn through the HVAC system, adding excessive
>>salt in order to stimulate beverage sales, and charging far more than
>>the product costs to produce.
>>
>>Citing a report from UC-Irvine professor Richard McKenzie, Senator Cruel
>> said that movie theater popcorn had a 1300% mark-up. Patrick Corcoran
>>of the National Association of Theatre Owners had a different take,
>>stating "No one is required when they enter the movie theater to buy
>>concessions. We're happy when they do." Professor McKenzie explained the
>>economics of operating a theater stating "If you didn't pay high prices
>>for popcorn and other concessions, you'd be paying high prices for
>>ticket prices."
>>
>>There are alternatives to high popcorn prices McKenzie stated. "You can
>>in fact buy or make popcorn and smuggle it into the theatre and get the
>>cost, get the amount of the tub down to $1.25. You can also sneak in
>>soda, candy, lattes, and a steamed whole fish. I even saw some Asian
>>dude with a rice cooker plugged into a power outlet on the floor that
>>was intended only for vacuum cleaners."
>>
>>Movie-goer William Zaufool was interviewed outside a Century theater in
>>Daly City, California, and stated: "I know that the theater's cost of
>>each piece of popcorn is less than 1/50th of a cent, but they're selling
>>a box of popcorn with 600 pieces for $5.50. That box of popcorn costs
>>them only them only 12 cents to produce, what is their justification for
>>charging $5.50?" Zaufool continued, "I really only wanted to buy 5
>>pieces of popcorn, but they told me that I couldn't buy pieces
>>individually, and that my choices were only small, medium, large, and
>>enormous. It's like the communists have succeeded."
>>
>>Herb Cruel's letter pointed to increases in the cost of popcorn as an
>>indicator of the risk America is taking by having so few movie theater
>>companies each with such a large market share. He described it as a
>>"warning sign for the state of competition in the movie theater popcorn
>>market"
>
> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!

Absolutely stupid.


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

In article <h3agad$i2n$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> I have been friends for years with a guy who owns two local theater
> complexes. He says he literally makes pennies on a ticket and is totally
> dependent on concession sales to pay the bills and keep the doors open.

Well it may be justified to charge high prices for concessions in that
case (although the profit margins would probably be very high even at
half the prices they charge).

But at ball parks, ski resorts, etc. where you have concessions on an
exclusive basis, you get high prices for modest meals (like $10 for a
hamburger smaller than what you'd get at a McDonald's for $1).

They're not struggling to survive just on those concession sales.

On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:04:18 -0700, nobody@nospam.pacbell.net (Bill
Z.) wrote:

>>
>> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!
>
>Absolutely stupid.

You've already introduced yourself. No need to do it again.

poldy wrote:
> In article <h3agad$i2n$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I have been friends for years with a guy who owns two local theater
>> complexes. He says he literally makes pennies on a ticket and is totally
>> dependent on concession sales to pay the bills and keep the doors open.
>
> Well it may be justified to charge high prices for concessions in that
> case (although the profit margins would probably be very high even at
> half the prices they charge).
>
> But at ball parks, ski resorts, etc. where you have concessions on an
> exclusive basis, you get high prices for modest meals (like $10 for a
> hamburger smaller than what you'd get at a McDonald's for $1).
>
> They're not struggling to survive just on those concession sales.

Different case there. The reason for high prices at the ball park is
they demand big fees for a space or a very large percentage cut from the
concessionaires. Got to pay those $100 Million ball players somehow
after the taxpayers build them a free stadium.

George wrote:
> poldy wrote:
>> In article <h3agad$i2n$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been friends for years with a guy who owns two local theater
>>> complexes. He says he literally makes pennies on a ticket and is
>>> totally dependent on concession sales to pay the bills and keep the
>>> doors open.
>>
>> Well it may be justified to charge high prices for concessions in that
>> case (although the profit margins would probably be very high even at
>> half the prices they charge).
>>
>> But at ball parks, ski resorts, etc. where you have concessions on an
>> exclusive basis, you get high prices for modest meals (like $10 for a
>> hamburger smaller than what you'd get at a McDonald's for $1).
>>
>> They're not struggling to survive just on those concession sales.
>
> Different case there. The reason for high prices at the ball park is
> they demand big fees for a space or a very large percentage cut from the
> concessionaires. Got to pay those $100 Million ball players somehow
> after the taxpayers build them a free stadium.

Well the public is unlikely to pay to see players like you and me!
Those players spent just about their entire lives getting good at the
game. The best are very good indeed!

"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote in
news:SsKdnSTcb9NhosTXnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@giganews.com:

> George wrote:
>> poldy wrote:
>>> In article <h3agad$i2n$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been friends for years with a guy who owns two local theater
>>>> complexes. He says he literally makes pennies on a ticket and is
>>>> totally dependent on concession sales to pay the bills and keep the
>>>> doors open.
>>>
>>> Well it may be justified to charge high prices for concessions in
>>> that case (although the profit margins would probably be very high
>>> even at half the prices they charge).
>>>
>>> But at ball parks, ski resorts, etc. where you have concessions on
>>> an exclusive basis, you get high prices for modest meals (like $10
>>> for a hamburger smaller than what you'd get at a McDonald's for $1).
>>>
>>> They're not struggling to survive just on those concession sales.
>>
>> Different case there. The reason for high prices at the ball park is
>> they demand big fees for a space or a very large percentage cut from
>> the concessionaires. Got to pay those $100 Million ball players
>> somehow after the taxpayers build them a free stadium.
>
> Well the public is unlikely to pay to see players like you and me!
> Those players spent just about their entire lives getting good at the
> game. The best are very good indeed!
>
>

Ted Williams was good. Mickey Mantle was good. Their inflation-adjusted
salaries were a minute fraction of the AVERAGE salary today.

The Ghost of General Lee <ghost@general.lee> writes:

> On Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:04:18 -0700, nobody@nospam.pacbell.net (Bill
> Z.) wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!
>>
>>Absolutely stupid.
>
> You've already introduced yourself. No need to do it again.

Lame comment from a complete and utter idiot.



--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

poldy wrote:

> But at ball parks, ski resorts, etc. where you have concessions on an
> exclusive basis, you get high prices for modest meals (like $10 for a
> hamburger smaller than what you'd get at a McDonald's for $1).
>
> They're not struggling to survive just on those concession sales.

A lot of ski areas _are_ struggling to survive, and the loss of sales at
concessions is one of the reasons. The high concession prices have
caused more and more skiers to bring their own food and beverages, and
it's a vicious cycle. It's also driven away customers in general,
because of the perceived high cost of a day of skiing.

The funniest thing in terms of people bringing their own food was when I
saw a woman walking into the Mount Rose Ski Area in Nevada carrying a
full size rice cooker.

At PacBell park in San Francisco, while I've only been there twice, once
for a football game, once for a baseball game, there were no restriction
on bringing in your own food and drinks, other than the usual ones of no
glass and no alcohol, while across the bay in Oakland you're not even
allowed to bring in bottles of water (the excuse is that the bottles
could be filled with clear alcohol like vodka).

poldy wrote:
> In article <h3agad$i2n$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I have been friends for years with a guy who owns two local theater
>> complexes. He says he literally makes pennies on a ticket and is totally
>> dependent on concession sales to pay the bills and keep the doors open.
>
> Well it may be justified to charge high prices for concessions in that
> case (although the profit margins would probably be very high even at
> half the prices they charge).
>
> But at ball parks, ski resorts, etc. where you have concessions on an
> exclusive basis, you get high prices for modest meals (like $10 for a
> hamburger smaller than what you'd get at a McDonald's for $1).
>
> They're not struggling to survive just on those concession sales.

Another way theaters make money is by extorting money from mall owners.

At the mall near me, an almost dead mall, one national chain opened a
very nice theater. They pay no rent to the mall for two years because
the construction of the theaters (paid for by the mall owners), was late
in getting completed, and the chain threatened to pull out otherwise.
The mall owners went broke, and the mall is in bankruptcy, after the
owners kept saying that the theater would revitalize the mall.

It's the only place at the mall that draws any crowds, and it's kind of
spooky to have this theater in the middle of an old mall that has almost
no stores left. A couple of food places (Cold Stone and frozen yogurt)
have opened near the theater. But no one is shopping at Macy's or
Victoria's Secrets after a movie.

The Ghost of General Lee wrote:

<snip>

> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!

Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:

"http://www.amazon.com/Why-Popcorn-Costs-Much-Movies/dp/0387769994"

It's a good book for anyone that mistakenly believes that prices for
goods and services are based on the price to produce or provide that
good or service.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <7an6m.7394$cl4.2220@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
>> movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:
>
> Or, you can pick it up at your local library.

Yeah, at least some libraries. I looked for it at the library that I can
see from my back yard, a beautiful new library building with a crappy
collection, an obnoxious staff, and a 20th century computer system (but
with a coffee house in the library) and they don't have that book. Four
miles away is a library in an old sprawling building with various
additions, but with a great collection and a competent staff, good
Wi-Fi, and a good on-line catalog.

Sorry about the rant.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 09:26:06 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Yeah, at least some libraries. I looked for it at the library that I can
>see from my back yard, a beautiful new library building with a crappy
>collection, an obnoxious staff, and a 20th century computer system (but
>with a coffee house in the library) and they don't have that book. Four
>miles away is a library in an old sprawling building with various
>additions, but with a great collection and a competent staff, good
>Wi-Fi, and a good on-line catalog.

Most libraries offer online search and reversation web pages. For
example, the Santa Cruz public library:
<https://catalog.santacruzpl.org/web2/tramp2.exe/log_in?SETTING_KEY=ENGLISH&guest=guest>
No need to deal with the obnoxious staff or onsite computer museum.
The problem locally is finding a convenient day or time when the local
library is open. I usually search online what I need in advance. When
I pickup the book, I also like to browse the stacks to see what I've
missed.

For example, the book on popcorn price management is only available at
3 out of 12 libraries in Santa Cruz:
<https://catalog.santacruzpl.org/web2/tramp2.exe/do_authority_search/A0si9h9b.002?servers=1home&index=ti&material_filte r=all&language_filter=all&location_filter=&locatio n_group_filter=all&date_filter=all&query=Why+popco rn+costs+so+much+at+the+movies+%3A>

>Sorry about the rant.

Not a problem. Your rant has content, something lacking in the other
one-line unsubstantiated comments.

I really liked the comment that carriers do no research and just buy
everything off the shelf. I guess all the research labs and copious
techy papers I constantly read were all done for public relations.

For Verizon:
<http://www22.verizon.com/technologytesting/>
<http://www22.verizon.com/technologytesting/sit_lab_locations.html>
and AT&T:
<http://www.att.com/labs>
<http://www.research.att.com> (search for wireless)
and Sprint:
<http://www.sprintlabs.com>


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article <_1n6m.7391$cl4.731@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> They're not struggling to survive just on those concession sales.
>
> Another way theaters make money is by extorting money from mall owners.
>
> At the mall near me, an almost dead mall, one national chain opened a
> very nice theater. They pay no rent to the mall for two years because
> the construction of the theaters (paid for by the mall owners), was late
> in getting completed, and the chain threatened to pull out otherwise.
> The mall owners went broke, and the mall is in bankruptcy, after the
> owners kept saying that the theater would revitalize the mall.
>
> It's the only place at the mall that draws any crowds, and it's kind of
> spooky to have this theater in the middle of an old mall that has almost
> no stores left. A couple of food places (Cold Stone and frozen yogurt)
> have opened near the theater. But no one is shopping at Macy's or
> Victoria's Secrets after a movie.

AMC Theatres at Cupertino Square? Very nice theaters; I've wondered how
such a lackluster mall ever got such a nice set of theaters. Last time
we were there (two months ago?) they were upgrading one of the theaters
to IMAX.

Steve

--
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

In article <I7o6m.3576$Ad2.1585@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > In article <7an6m.7394$cl4.2220@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>,
> > SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
> >> movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:
> >
> > Or, you can pick it up at your local library.
>
> Yeah, at least some libraries. I looked for it at the library that I can
> see from my back yard, a beautiful new library building with a crappy
> collection, an obnoxious staff, and a 20th century computer system (but
> with a coffee house in the library) and they don't have that book. Four
> miles away is a library in an old sprawling building with various
> additions, but with a great collection and a competent staff, good
> Wi-Fi, and a good on-line catalog.
>
> Sorry about the rant.

Which libraries are these? I see that Sunnyvale has it, so I'm guessing
the former is Cupertino and the latter is Sunnyvale. Mountain View
doesn't have it, either, but also doesn't have a coffee shop inside.

Steve

--
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, chip shot in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> For example, the book on popcorn price management is only available at
> 3 out of 12 libraries in Santa Cruz:
> <https://catalog.santacruzpl.org/web2/tramp2.exe/do_authority_search/A0si9h9b.002?servers=1home&index=ti&material_filte r=all&language_filter=all&location_filter=&locatio n_group_filter=all&date_filter=all&query=Why+popco rn+costs+so+much+at+the+movies+%3A>

None of the eight county library branches in Santa Clara County it.

As far as city-operated libraries:

Sunnyvale's library has it.
Santa Clara's library has it.
Palo Alto's library has it.
None of San Jose's branches have it.

In general I've found that the collections at the libraries in the
cities that opted out of the dysfunctional county system are much
better. They also have much better staffs.

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:46:28 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <tp3k551lokbr22u8git4eed9s5pesmm6if@4ax.com>,
> Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>
>> Most libraries offer online search and reversation web pages. For
>> example, the Santa Cruz public library:
>> <https://catalog.santacruzpl.org/web2...KEY=ENGLISH&gu
>> est=guest>
>> No need to deal with the obnoxious staff or onsite computer museum.
>> The problem locally is finding a convenient day or time when the local
>> library is open.
>
>7 days a week isn't convenient?

Nope. I work roughly from noon to midnight. Finding a library that's
open after midnight is rather difficult. I sleep or shuffle paper in
the morning.

Here are the new and severely trimmed SCZ Public Library hours:
<http://www.santacruzpl.org/media/pdf/news/newhours.pdf>
Note the large number of days where the libraries are totally closed.
Also note that all SCZ libraries are closed on Fridays. 25 staff
positions were axed this month. The survivors got a 10% pay cut in
the form of an unpaid furlough.

I also live in Ben Lomond, which requires a major expedition to drive
to an open library to pickup books. The nearest library (Boulder
Creek) is only open for 3 days and a total of 12 hours per week.
Incidentally, Ben Lomond had a library for many years, but couldn't
sustain it with an all volunteer staff.

>> For example, the book on popcorn price management is only available at
>> 3 out of 12 libraries in Santa Cruz:
>
>Um, don't they deliver it to the library of your choice, where it's
>convenient for YOU to pick up?

Nope. I can only reserve a book at the library where it's located. In
the distanta past I could can have it delivered to a different branch
for pickup. I tried the transfer service about 4 times, none of which
worked well. I'm not sure they even offer it any more as I couldn't
find it on the web pile:
<http://www.santacruzpl.org/services/detail/18/>
There's a $2.50 fee for books *NOT* picked up. It's easier to keep
things simple and just pickup the book myself, or convince someone to
do it for me.



--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:20:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <7an6m.7394$cl4.2220@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>:

>The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!
>
>Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
>movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:
>
>"http://www.amazon.com/Why-Popcorn-Costs-Much-Movies/dp/0387769994"

Good advice.

>It's a good book for anyone that mistakenly believes that prices for
>goods and services are based on the price to produce or provide that
>good or service.

Total misunderstanding of the content.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
John FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
Fixes to Wi-Fi Problems: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_Fixes>

On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:20:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote in <7an6m.7394$cl4.2220@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>:

>The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!
>
>Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
>movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:
>
>"http://www.amazon.com/Why-Popcorn-Costs-Much-Movies/dp/0387769994"
>
>It's a good book for anyone that mistakenly believes that prices for
>goods and services are based on the price to produce or provide that
>good or service.

"copyright 2008"
In other words, you knowingly violated the copyright,
and without any attribution. Why am I not surprised.

--
Best regards, FAQ for Wireless Internet: <http://wireless.navas.us>
John FAQ for Wi-Fi: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi>
Wi-Fi How To: <http://wireless.navas.us/wiki/Wi-Fi_HowTo>
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John Navas wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:20:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote in <7an6m.7394$cl4.2220@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>:
>
>> The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
<snip>
> "copyright 2008"
> In other words, you knowingly violated the copyright,
> and without any attribution. Why am I not surprised.
>

Just how did he violate the copyright? To do so he would have had to
reproduce a substantial portion of the work and distribute it. Quoting
a paragragh or two is considered "fair use" q.v.

Copyright 2009 Richard B. Gilbert
All rights reserved.

Richard B. Gilbert wrote:
> John Navas wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:20:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
>> wrote in <7an6m.7394$cl4.2220@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>:
>>
>>> The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
> <snip>
>> "copyright 2008"
>> In other words, you knowingly violated the copyright, and without any
>> attribution. Why am I not surprised.
>>
>
> Just how did he violate the copyright? To do so he would have had to
> reproduce a substantial portion of the work and distribute it. Quoting
> a paragragh or two is considered "fair use" q.v.
>
> Copyright 2009 Richard B. Gilbert
> All rights reserved.

I didn't quote _any_ of the book, I was simply stating what the
copyright date was, so people would know that the book is of recent
vintage. I've never even seen the book.

What chutzpah. Navas _routinely_ violates copyrights by posting entire
news stories from other sources, yet he gets his panties in a bunch when
someone includes the copyright date of a book!

He must sit at his computer all day thinking "what kind of random
thoughts can I put up on Usenet so readers will continue to understand
that I'm a moron."

Copyright 2009 Steven Scharf.

All rights reserved. No part of this message may be reproduced, stored
in a retrieval system, or transmitted, in any form or by any means,
electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise, without
prior written permission of the author.

John Navas wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Jul 2009 08:20:25 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote in <7an6m.7394$cl4.2220@flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com>:
>
>> The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!
>> Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
>> movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:
>>
>> "http://www.amazon.com/Why-Popcorn-Costs-Much-Movies/dp/0387769994"
>>
>> It's a good book for anyone that mistakenly believes that prices for
>> goods and services are based on the price to produce or provide that
>> good or service.
>
> "copyright 2008"
> In other words, you knowingly violated the copyright,
> and without any attribution. Why am I not surprised.
>

How exactly did he violate the copyright? He simply mentioned the title
and did not include any content.

SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> writes:

> The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!
>
> Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
> movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:
>
> "http://www.amazon.com/Why-Popcorn-Costs-Much-Movies/dp/0387769994"
>
> It's a good book for anyone that mistakenly believes that prices for
> goods and services are based on the price to produce or provide that
> good or service.

..... which is irrelevant to what was being discussed since the rules
are different for companies with a sizeable market share. For
example, read
<http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/20939/compact_disc_antitrust_deal_finalized/>
to get an idea of what happens when very large companies try to
"charge what the market will bear" when there is no effective
competition.

Just because they can charge what the want for popcorn in a small
theater does not mean large telecommunication companies operate
under the same rules.


--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

In article <x9H6m.8962$8r.2710@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

> What chutzpah. Navas _routinely_ violates copyrights by posting entire
> news stories from other sources, yet he gets his panties in a bunch when
> someone includes the copyright date of a book!

Nah...all he does is post press releases. I've never seen any depth.

--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
AT&T-Free At Last

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <higgy-50990F.09175613072009@news.announcetech.com>,
> John Higdon <higgy@kome.com> wrote:
>
>>> What chutzpah. Navas _routinely_ violates copyrights by posting entire
>>> news stories from other sources, yet he gets his panties in a bunch when
>>> someone includes the copyright date of a book!
>> Nah...all he does is post press releases. I've never seen any depth.
>
> No, it's not true that ALL he does is post press releases.
>
> He's perhaps most famous for his one-word responses to things he can't
> actually debate. "Nonsense" is perhaps his favorite. He can't NOT say
> something, but he doesn't actually have anything to say, so out comes
> "Nonsense."

Good scramble.

Bill Z. wrote:
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> writes:
>
>> The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Touché. Absolutely hilarious!
>> Thanks, you can buy McKenzie's book, _Why popcorn costs so much at the
>> movies : and other pricing puzzles_ (copyright 2008) here:
>>
>> "http://www.amazon.com/Why-Popcorn-Costs-Much-Movies/dp/0387769994"
>>
>> It's a good book for anyone that mistakenly believes that prices for
>> goods and services are based on the price to produce or provide that
>> good or service.
>
> .... which is irrelevant to what was being discussed since the rules
> are different for companies with a sizeable market share. For
> example, read
> <http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/20939/compact_disc_antitrust_deal_finalized/>
> to get an idea of what happens when very large companies try to
> "charge what the market will bear" when there is no effective
> competition.
>
> Just because they can charge what the want for popcorn in a small
> theater does not mean large telecommunication companies operate
> under the same rules.
>
>

The telephone companies (wired) are "regulated monopolies". The state
government regulates intrastate rates; e.g. NJ to NJ. The federal
government regulates interstate rates.

I don't know who regulates cellular phone rates. For all I know celluar
phone companies may not be regulated by anyone.

I pay something like $70/month for two cell phones. I doubt if we use
ten minutes a month.

It's worth that $70/month to know that my wife and I can reach each
other almost instantly no matter where we are and that we can summon a
policeman, an ambulance or a fire company wherever we are and whenever
we need such a thing. It's also most helpful to be able to call when we
are shopping for food in the super market: "Where are you?" "Aisle 17!"

Our usage may be atypical. The other extreme is the woman with a
bluetooth dongle in her ear talking with one person or another from dawn
till 11PM.

In article <rsmdnXE-TYi_LMbXnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@giganews.com>,
"Richard B. Gilbert" <rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:

> The telephone companies (wired) are "regulated monopolies". The state
> government regulates intrastate rates; e.g. NJ to NJ. The federal
> government regulates interstate rates.

And we're only talking the charge for basic telephone service. Features
and add-ons (including some of those mysterious charges that don't make
any sense) are whatever the traffic will bear.

> I don't know who regulates cellular phone rates. For all I know celluar
> phone companies may not be regulated by anyone.

That would be the marketplace.

> It's worth that $70/month to know that my wife and I can reach each
> other almost instantly no matter where we are and that we can summon a
> policeman, an ambulance or a fire company wherever we are and whenever
> we need such a thing. It's also most helpful to be able to call when we
> are shopping for food in the super market: "Where are you?" "Aisle 17!"

And that's how it's priced: if you'll pay it, they'll charge it.

--
John Higdon
+1 408 ANdrews 6-4400
AT&T-Free At Last