Any recourse beyond 25% rebate when child runs up data bill unknowingly?

My 13 y.o. son ran up about $700 a month in no-data-plan download
charges for the last two months...we missed last month's bill so we
weren't able to switch it to a data plan. He thought that there was
no internet use by the games he downloaded. Verizon agreed to put him
on a data plan for this month and reduce last month's charges by 25%,
plus a $50 "goodwill" credit. We've been customers for almost 10
years.

Is there anything more we can do?

And yes, we've turned off the Internet on his phone after this billing
period ends (tomorrow) and have made arrangements for him to work off
part of the charges (he had been asked to consult with my husband
regarding any data charges).

I completely agree about there needing to be some kind of capping and
notice for excessive use by anyone.

Any strategies working to reduce what we owe?

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:01:28 -0700 (PDT), ruthgree
<rgreenwood9@gmail.com> wrote:

>My 13 y.o. son ran up about $700 a month in no-data-plan download
>charges for the last two months...we missed last month's bill so we
>weren't able to switch it to a data plan. He thought that there was
>no internet use by the games he downloaded. Verizon agreed to put him
>on a data plan for this month and reduce last month's charges by 25%,
>plus a $50 "goodwill" credit. We've been customers for almost 10
>years.
>
>Is there anything more we can do?
>
>And yes, we've turned off the Internet on his phone after this billing
>period ends (tomorrow) and have made arrangements for him to work off
>part of the charges (he had been asked to consult with my husband
>regarding any data charges).

Sounds like what I would have done. You could also ask for a payment
plan from VZW.

On 6/22/2011 8:01 AM, ruthgree wrote:
> My 13 y.o. son ran up about $700 a month in no-data-plan download
> charges for the last two months...we missed last month's bill so we
> weren't able to switch it to a data plan. He thought that there was
> no internet use by the games he downloaded. Verizon agreed to put him
> on a data plan for this month and reduce last month's charges by 25%,
> plus a $50 "goodwill" credit. We've been customers for almost 10
> years.
>
> Is there anything more we can do?
>
> And yes, we've turned off the Internet on his phone after this billing
> period ends (tomorrow) and have made arrangements for him to work off
> part of the charges (he had been asked to consult with my husband
> regarding any data charges).
>
> I completely agree about there needing to be some kind of capping and
> notice for excessive use by anyone.
>
> Any strategies working to reduce what we owe?

Probably not, he used the data. If you're out of contract you could try
telling them that you're dropping service and see if they offer you a
better deal to stay.

I have my 13 y.o. son and 17 y.o. daughter on "feature phones" on
Verizon's MVNO Pageplus. They are not on a data plan, and I don't think
they realize that they could actually use the web on their phones at
$1.20/MB (which while still expensive, is less than what Verizon charges
per M. Worst case they'd deplete their balance down to zero and I'd
lose less than $100 per phone.

I recall my son, unbeknownst to me, downloading some games on my wife's
old dumb Verizon phone and Verizon crediting me for the charges.

Thanks for the insight -- what's Pageplus? I'll look it up.

Worst thing is...the bill was set up for automatic pay so we have a
$200 credit for this month.

My son has a feature phone, not a smartphone.. We're not out of
contract, since I just bought a new phone.

On 6/22/2011 2:34 PM, ruthgree wrote:
> Thanks for the insight -- what's Pageplus? I'll look it up.
>
> Worst thing is...the bill was set up for automatic pay so we have a
> $200 credit for this month.


That is the number one reason why I will never ever never (did I say
never) give anyone the keys to my account so they can automatically
debit it.

You get busy or whatever and a bill that you should really notice gets
paid and then you are left to do battle months later. I am thinking you
would have gotten a much better response if addressed in the first month.

I do understand being busy or whatever but I would much rather see a
bill go unpaid if I somehow missed it and didn't post it for payment.

Also I don't keep a lot of money in that account so if a merchant
debited a large amount I could end up missing other payments or
incurring charges. For example our gas utility couldn't read the meter
because of snow. At that time our gas bill was never more than $150 but
for some bizarre reason they rendered an estimated bill for $600+. If I
agreed to let them deduct that amount it would have compromised other
payments. I actually had to fight with them to get a "more correct"
estimated bill because it was the usual "we are megacorp and you are
stupid" discussion when I called.

>
> My son has a feature phone, not a smartphone.. We're not out of
> contract, since I just bought a new phone.

On 6/22/2011 11:34 AM, ruthgree wrote:
> Thanks for the insight -- what's Pageplus? I'll look it up.
>
> Worst thing is...the bill was set up for automatic pay so we have a
> $200 credit for this month.
>
> My son has a feature phone, not a smartphone.. We're not out of
> contract, since I just bought a new phone.

Pageplus is a Mobile Virtual Network Operator (MVNO). They are a prepaid
provider that uses Verizon's network.

My whole family is now on Pageplus, the spousal unit and I moved over
from Verizon in April.

Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.

They have three plans:
1. Pay as you go (4-10¢/min, 8¢/text, $1.20/MB data)
2. Talk N Text 1200 (1200 mins, 2000 texts, 100MB data)
3. Unlimited Talk & Text (20MB of data)

15¢/MB if you exceed the monthly data allocation on the plans that
include data.

The gotchas:

U.S., Can, Mex Only
No iPhones
No Blackberrys
You bring the phone
No high-use data plan
Roaming (29¢/min) on non-Verizon CDMA networks

SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
> from Verizon in April.
>
> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.

Once again the insinuations flow

you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-B6AEF2.16240622062011@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <ittdfn$25t$1@dont-email.me>, George <george@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> > Worst thing is...the bill was set up for automatic pay so we have a
>> > $200 credit for this month.
>>
>>
>> That is the number one reason why I will never ever never (did I say
>> never) give anyone the keys to my account so they can automatically
>> debit it.
>>
>> You get busy or whatever and a bill that you should really notice gets
>> paid and then you are left to do battle months later. I am thinking you
>> would have gotten a much better response if addressed in the first month.
>
> as the saying goes, possession is nine tenths of the law...
>
> ...in other words, we got it, and you can't come and get it.
>
> I agree. Nobody debits my account. You send me a bill, I will decide
> if it's valid, and if it is I will put the money into your hands.
>
> Voila. Now you have the incentive to send me a valid bill.
>
> (btw, anyone who deals with hospital billing should always, always look
> at every line and anything that seems suspicious, or that isn't
> explained, send back to them and demand a detailed explanation. Chances
> are they won't respond because they can't, but that's their choice and
> problem, not yours. You will end up not paying for those items they
> can't explain.)

Not too long ago I had a procedure for a kidney stone. I'm male and in my
late 60's In one of my bills there was a charge for a pregnancy test. I
complained and received a copy of the results. According to their records
I'm 8-10 weeks along.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:45:38 -0500, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>> (btw, anyone who deals with hospital billing should always, always look
>> at every line and anything that seems suspicious, or that isn't
>> explained, send back to them and demand a detailed explanation. Chances
>> are they won't respond because they can't, but that's their choice and
>> problem, not yours. You will end up not paying for those items they
>> can't explain.)
>
>Not too long ago I had a procedure for a kidney stone. I'm male and in my
>late 60's In one of my bills there was a charge for a pregnancy test. I
>complained and received a copy of the results. According to their records
>I'm 8-10 weeks along.

Congratulations! Any idea who the mother is? ;-)

On 6/22/2011 2:50 PM, SMS wrote:
> On 6/22/2011 11:34 AM, ruthgree wrote:
>> Thanks for the insight -- what's Pageplus? I'll look it up.
>>
>> Worst thing is...the bill was set up for automatic pay so we have a
>> $200 credit for this month.
>>
>> My son has a feature phone, not a smartphone.. We're not out of
>> contract, since I just bought a new phone.
>
> Pageplus is a Mobile Virtual Network Operator (MVNO). They are a prepaid
> provider that uses Verizon's network.
>
> My whole family is now on Pageplus, the spousal unit and I moved over
> from Verizon in April.
>
> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.

Correction, it isn't for someone if they use a *normal* amount of data.
I don't download videos and seldom do navigation (maybe 10 minutes last
mo9nth) and I easily use significantly more than 100 Mb/month.

>
> They have three plans:
> 1. Pay as you go (4-10¢/min, 8¢/text, $1.20/MB data)
> 2. Talk N Text 1200 (1200 mins, 2000 texts, 100MB data)
> 3. Unlimited Talk & Text (20MB of data)
>
> 15¢/MB if you exceed the monthly data allocation on the plans that
> include data.
>
> The gotchas:
>
> U.S., Can, Mex Only
> No iPhones
> No Blackberrys
> You bring the phone
> No high-use data plan

Correction, no normal use data plan is available.

> Roaming (29¢/min) on non-Verizon CDMA networks

"The Ghost of General Lee" <ghost@general.lee> wrote in message
news:4tm4075bp1n198f8rvf26t85k70rcre7os@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 15:45:38 -0500, "NotMe" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>> (btw, anyone who deals with hospital billing should always, always look
>>> at every line and anything that seems suspicious, or that isn't
>>> explained, send back to them and demand a detailed explanation. Chances
>>> are they won't respond because they can't, but that's their choice and
>>> problem, not yours. You will end up not paying for those items they
>>> can't explain.)
>>
>>Not too long ago I had a procedure for a kidney stone. I'm male and in my
>>late 60's In one of my bills there was a charge for a pregnancy test. I
>>complained and received a copy of the results. According to their records
>>I'm 8-10 weeks along.
>
> Congratulations! Any idea who the mother is? ;-)

I suspect it's the product of a one night 'sand'.

On 6/22/2011 4:45 PM, NotMe wrote:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> news:elmop-B6AEF2.16240622062011@news.eternal-september.org...
>> In article<ittdfn$25t$1@dont-email.me>, George<george@nospam.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Worst thing is...the bill was set up for automatic pay so we have a
>>>> $200 credit for this month.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is the number one reason why I will never ever never (did I say
>>> never) give anyone the keys to my account so they can automatically
>>> debit it.
>>>
>>> You get busy or whatever and a bill that you should really notice gets
>>> paid and then you are left to do battle months later. I am thinking you
>>> would have gotten a much better response if addressed in the first month.
>>
>> as the saying goes, possession is nine tenths of the law...
>>
>> ...in other words, we got it, and you can't come and get it.
>>
>> I agree. Nobody debits my account. You send me a bill, I will decide
>> if it's valid, and if it is I will put the money into your hands.
>>
>> Voila. Now you have the incentive to send me a valid bill.
>>
>> (btw, anyone who deals with hospital billing should always, always look
>> at every line and anything that seems suspicious, or that isn't
>> explained, send back to them and demand a detailed explanation. Chances
>> are they won't respond because they can't, but that's their choice and
>> problem, not yours. You will end up not paying for those items they
>> can't explain.)
>
> Not too long ago I had a procedure for a kidney stone. I'm male and in my
> late 60's In one of my bills there was a charge for a pregnancy test. I
> complained and received a copy of the results. According to their records
> I'm 8-10 weeks along.
>
>

Don't pay for that pregnancy test. If they insist, threaten to call in
the press. Newspapers love this sort of thing! The local TV News might
also enjoy poking fun at those jerks!

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 21:01:08 -0500]:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>
>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>
>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>
>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>
>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>
>
> I have 20Mb a month.
>
> Most I have used was 12.

Good for you. Do you want a medal?

The average on smartphones is over 200MB, the median is above 100MB

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700, SMS wrote:

> On 6/22/2011 11:34 AM, ruthgree wrote:
>> Thanks for the insight -- what's Pageplus? I'll look it up.
>>
>> Worst thing is...the bill was set up for automatic pay so we have a
>> $200 credit for this month.
>>
>> My son has a feature phone, not a smartphone.. We're not out of
>> contract, since I just bought a new phone.
>
> Pageplus is a Mobile Virtual Network Operator (MVNO). They are a prepaid
> provider that uses Verizon's network.
>
> My whole family is now on Pageplus, the spousal unit and I moved over
> from Verizon in April.
>
> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>
> They have three plans:
> 1. Pay as you go (4-10¢/min, 8¢/text, $1.20/MB data)
> 2. Talk N Text 1200 (1200 mins, 2000 texts, 100MB data)
> 3. Unlimited Talk & Text (20MB of data)
>
> 15¢/MB if you exceed the monthly data allocation on the plans that
> include data.
>
> The gotchas:
>
> U.S., Can, Mex Only
> No iPhones
> No Blackberrys
> You bring the phone
> No high-use data plan
> Roaming (29¢/min) on non-Verizon CDMA networks


I got a Blackberry. They knew it was a Blackberry when I gave them the
ESN.

Corrected: No BIS servers for PagePlus. But I still have Internet and
email.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:

> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>> from Verizon in April.
>>
>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>
> Once again the insinuations flow
>
> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month


I have 20Mb a month.

Most I have used was 12.

On 6/22/2011 7:01 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>
>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>
>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>
>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>
>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>
>
> I have 20Mb a month.
>
> Most I have used was 12.

For some reason, those that use a lot of data get very upset whenever
the Pageplus plans are mentioned, apparently even with appropriate
caveats about the plans not being appropriate for those that use a lot
of data.

This has a been a data heavy month for me as we were on a long road trip
and I used a lot of data checking e-mail and web browsing (while the
spousal unit was driving), as well as a bunch while cycling. I've used a
whopping over 12.56 MB and I don't re-up for 18 more days!

The latest study shows that 63% of Verizon users are at under 200MB per
month, the median data usage was 80MB, and the mean was 370MB. So you
have a small number of extremely heavy data users pulling the mean data
usage up, but the mean is not representative of typical data usage.

These numbers come from an analysis of 23,000 phone bills.

Incidentally, Verizon ends unlimited data on July 7 and these are the
new data rates:

2 GB: $30
5 GB: $50
10 GB: $80
Tethering: $20

So this is the time to sign up for unlimited data or forever hold your
peace.

On 6/22/2011 10:01 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>
>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>
>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>
>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>
>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>
>
> I have 20Mb a month.
>
> Most I have used was 12.
>
>
And my elderly neighbor drives 1,000 miles/year. How is that relevant
for most folks who have a job, family etc and don't do that?

On 6/23/2011 2:49 AM, SMS wrote:
> On 6/22/2011 7:01 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>>
>>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>>
>>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>>
>>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>>
>>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>>
>>
>> I have 20Mb a month.
>>
>> Most I have used was 12.
>
> For some reason, those that use a lot of data get very upset whenever
> the Pageplus plans are mentioned, apparently even with appropriate
> caveats about the plans not being appropriate for those that use a lot
> of data.
>

I doubt anyone is getting upset. For some reason you think your ideas
should apply to everyone else because you apparently imagine you are
smarter than everyone neglecting that there are lots and lots of savvy
people who do understand data usage. Remember how silly you made
yourself look with your "ubiquitous WiFi"?

> This has a been a data heavy month for me as we were on a long road trip
> and I used a lot of data checking e-mail and web browsing (while the
> spousal unit was driving), as well as a bunch while cycling. I've used a
> whopping over 12.56 MB and I don't re-up for 18 more days!
>
> The latest study shows that 63% of Verizon users are at under 200MB per
> month, the median data usage was 80MB, and the mean was 370MB. So you
> have a small number of extremely heavy data users pulling the mean data
> usage up, but the mean is not representative of typical data usage.
>
> These numbers come from an analysis of 23,000 phone bills.
>
> Incidentally, Verizon ends unlimited data on July 7 and these are the
> new data rates:
>
> 2 GB: $30
> 5 GB: $50
> 10 GB: $80
> Tethering: $20
>
> So this is the time to sign up for unlimited data or forever hold your
> peace.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 23:49:24 -0700, SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Incidentally, Verizon ends unlimited data on July 7

Thank you for answering a ? I asked a long time ago,
about if the above was true or not. My contract is up,
so I'm going new phone and plan because of this.

I wonder if that is per phone or all 3 of my lines?

?s to V-C/service gives no help...

Again, thanx for the heads up...


JJTj




I have always thought in the back of my mind

"Cheese and Onions".

I have always thought that the world was unkind

"Cheese and Onions".

Do I have to spell it out ?

"C-H-E-E-S-E A-N-D O-N-I-O-N-S"

oh no.

Man or machine (Man or machine)
Keep yourself clean (Keep yourself clean)
Or be a has-been (Ah-ah)
Like a Dinosaur, oh oh-oh.


Man of advise (Man of advise)
For ev'rything nice (Ev'rything nice)
You'd better think twice (Ah-ah)
At least once more, oh oh.

On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 08:01:28 -0700 (PDT), ruthgree
<rgreenwood9@gmail.com> wrote:

>Is there anything more we can do?

Beat the kid to within an inch of his life.

He won't do it again...

A_C

SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 23:49:24 -0700]:
> On 6/22/2011 7:01 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>>
>>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>>
>>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>>
>>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>>
>>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>>
>>
>> I have 20Mb a month.
>>
>> Most I have used was 12.
>
> For some reason, those that use a lot of data get very upset whenever
> the Pageplus plans are mentioned, apparently even with appropriate
> caveats about the plans not being appropriate for those that use a lot
> of data.
>
> This has a been a data heavy month for me as we were on a long road trip
> and I used a lot of data checking e-mail and web browsing (while the
> spousal unit was driving), as well as a bunch while cycling. I've used a
> whopping over 12.56 MB and I don't re-up for 18 more days!

I am sorry, but there is no definition possible where under 100MB
is a LOT of data.

> The latest study shows that 63% of Verizon users are at under 200MB per
> month, the median data usage was 80MB, and the mean was 370MB. So you
> have a small number of extremely heavy data users pulling the mean data
> usage up, but the mean is not representative of typical data usage.

No, the latest study of 65,000 shows the average data use by phone
from Q1 of this year. Since your study ended before this one...
In just the last 12 months, the amount of data the average smartphone user consumes per month has grown by 89 percent from 230 Megabytes (M in Q1 2010 to 435 MB in Q1 2011

> These numbers come from an analysis of 23,000 phone bills.

And your link to the study provided ZERO data

On 6/23/2011 5:02 AM, It's that Guy again... wrote:
>
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 23:49:24 -0700, SMS<scharf.steven@geemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, Verizon ends unlimited data on July 7
>
> Thank you for answering a ? I asked a long time ago,
> about if the above was true or not. My contract is up,
> so I'm going new phone and plan because of this.
>
> I wonder if that is per phone or all 3 of my lines?
>
> ?s to V-C/service gives no help...
>
> Again, thanx for the heads up...

Historically, Verizon and the other carriers have allowed customers to
continue with old plans for as long as they desire, even when their
contract is over and even when getting a new phone and going back under
contract.

There is no legal requirement for them to allow the continuation of a
plan after the contract is over, and they also can change the terms
during a contract by offering to release you from the contract (though
if you just bought a new phone and they change the contract terms to
something you really don't like, they don't buy back the phone).

Cingular got rid of a bunch of grandfathered AT&T Wireless plans when
they switched TDMA users to GSM.

On 6/22/2011 7:01 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>
>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>
>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>
>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>
>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>
>
> I have 20Mb a month.
>
> Most I have used was 12.

Even with the actual median data usage numbers, it's important to
understand that much of the "under 200MB" of data is being used even
when there is wi-fi available, simply because there is no reason (other
than perhaps speed) for a smart phone user on an unlimited data plan to
bother with switching to wi-fi. There is also a disadvantage if you're
doing something that requires privacy and it's not a secure site.

A Cisco study last year showed that 65% of smart phone data usage was at
home or work, and the remaining 35% was used elsewhere. That "elsewhere"
almost certainly included a great many places where wi-fi was available
at no cost.

With expanding availability of wi-fi, the need to use vast amounts of
cellular data is even less, and with the end of unlimited data it's
going to push people on the new plans to be a bit more logical
(especially if they get a bill like the original poster in this
thread!). It's amazing the number of places that have added free wi-fi,
it's gone way beyond traditional places like hotels, restaurants and
libraries to included airports, coffee Houses, medical centers,
bakeries, colleges, barber shops, copy centers, laundromats, bars, donut
shops, libraries, campgrounds, yogurt shops, parks, car repair shops,
freeway rest areas, car dealers, government buildings, shopping malls,
car washes, hospitals, and of course friend’s homes (a lot more people
are setting up guest networks in their homes).

The carriers were very smart by initially rolling out unlimited data
then later switching to tiered data. They have essentially locked in all
their customers on unlimited data plans that would lose unlimited data
if they churned to another carrier. The late adopters of smart phones
are the ones less likely to be using vast amounts of data, and they care
more about a lower monthly cost.

What is strange is how many people have no concept of how much data they
use in general and how much data they use when they could be using
either wi-fi on their phone or some other internet access device. They
are just positive that they need unlimited data, just as many people
were sure that unlimited long distance on their land line was always a
better deal than a low cost pay-by-the minute LD carrier.

I think the reason that some people get so upset when all these studies
point out just how low median data usage is is because they are the ones
pulling up the mean data usage and can't accept that their usage model
is neither the norm, nor applicable to everyone else. You often see an
attitude of "what I do must be the best thing for everyone because I'm
doing it." That's why I'm always very careful to point out the drawbacks
of a service like Page Plus, and explain why it might not be the best
option for everyone, even though I find it to be good for me personally.

Over the years I have found that if you want to have credibility with
your customers that you need to be able to point out both the pros and
cons of your product versus your competitors product. The salespeople
can go ashen when an engineer points out any tiny advantage of a
competitor's product, but when it's an audience of engineers they like
the facts explained.

SMS wrote on [Thu, 23 Jun 2011 08:44:26 -0700]:
> On 6/22/2011 7:01 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>>
>>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>>
>>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>>
>>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>>
>>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>>
>>
>> I have 20Mb a month.
>>
>> Most I have used was 12.
>
> Even with the actual median data usage numbers, it's important to
> understand that much of the "under 200MB" of data is being used even
> when there is wi-fi available, simply because there is no reason (other

That's funny, the study you cited made no such claim. All it showed
was mobile data usage ...


> A Cisco study last year showed that 65% of smart phone data usage was at
> home or work, and the remaining 35% was used elsewhere. That "elsewhere"
> almost certainly included a great many places where wi-fi was available
> at no cost.

Once again you are assuming that every workplace has wifi, which it
just doesn't.

ruthgree wrote:
> My 13 y.o. son ran up about $700 a month in no-data-plan download
> charges for the last two months...we missed last month's bill so we
> weren't able to switch it to a data plan. He thought that there was
> no internet use by the games he downloaded. Verizon agreed to put him
> on a data plan for this month and reduce last month's charges by 25%,
> plus a $50 "goodwill" credit. We've been customers for almost 10
> years.
>
> Is there anything more we can do?
>
> And yes, we've turned off the Internet on his phone after this billing
> period ends (tomorrow) and have made arrangements for him to work off
> part of the charges (he had been asked to consult with my husband
> regarding any data charges).
>
> I completely agree about there needing to be some kind of capping and
> notice for excessive use by anyone.
>
> Any strategies working to reduce what we owe?
>
>
My response here is not meant to be directed at you, the OP, and I
understand both your plight and your seeking of suggestions to reduce your
burden.

But after reading many of the responses here, I felt compelled to respond to
the indignant and self-righteous responses of so many of you who think that
you have some inalienable right to shirk your responsibilities. I
particularly am enamored of the people who go right to "threat mode", ie.
"tell them you're going to drop them", "sue them", etc. in order to get your
way, whether you are right or wrong.

When did it become that we as consumers got to feel that we have no share in
the responsibility of making contracts with others, whether small stores or
large companies?

Beyond asking why someone believes their 13 year old needs to have a data
phone at all, when did that 13 year-olds parents stop having the
responsibility to monitor and know what their child was doing?

With all due respect once again to the OP's plight and the hardship
incurred, it seems to me that Verizon was more than fair to you in trying to
alleviate some of your financial burden. Suck up your error, pay the bill,
and exercise more care in the future.

On 6/23/2011 11:44 AM, SMS wrote:
> On 6/22/2011 7:01 PM, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 19:03:28 +0000, Justin wrote:
>>
>>> SMS wrote on [Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:50:25 -0700]:
>>>> from Verizon in April.
>>>>
>>>> Pageplus is not for you if you need to use a lot of data. The most data
>>>> on any of their plans is 100MB per month. So if you're doing a lot of
>>>> video downloads or using navigation with downloaded maps, forget it.
>>>
>>> Once again the insinuations flow
>>>
>>> you dont need to do either of those to go over 100MB a month
>>
>>
>> I have 20Mb a month.
>>
>> Most I have used was 12.
>
> Even with the actual median data usage numbers, it's important to
> understand that much of the "under 200MB" of data is being used even
> when there is wi-fi available, simply because there is no reason (other
> than perhaps speed) for a smart phone user on an unlimited data plan to
> bother with switching to wi-fi. There is also a disadvantage if you're
> doing something that requires privacy and it's not a secure site.

It is important to understand that a lot of folks simply don't have an
option to use WiFi.



>
> A Cisco study last year showed that 65% of smart phone data usage was at
> home or work, and the remaining 35% was used elsewhere. That "elsewhere"
> almost certainly included a great many places where wi-fi was available
> at no cost.

You really do like studies don't you even thought it was pointed out to
you on numerous times that studies are only a way for whomever pays for
the study to advance their agenda.

>
> With expanding availability of wi-fi, the need to use vast amounts of
> cellular data is even less, and with the end of unlimited data it's
> going to push people on the new plans to be a bit more logical
> (especially if they get a bill like the original poster in this
> thread!). It's amazing the number of places that have added free wi-fi,
> it's gone way beyond traditional places like hotels, restaurants and
> libraries to included airports, coffee Houses, medical centers,
> bakeries, colleges, barber shops, copy centers, laundromats, bars, donut
> shops, libraries, campgrounds, yogurt shops, parks, car repair shops,
> freeway rest areas, car dealers, government buildings, shopping malls,
> car washes, hospitals, and of course friend’s homes (a lot more people
> are setting up guest networks in their homes).
>
> The carriers were very smart by initially rolling out unlimited data
> then later switching to tiered data. They have essentially locked in all
> their customers on unlimited data plans that would lose unlimited data
> if they churned to another carrier. The late adopters of smart phones
> are the ones less likely to be using vast amounts of data, and they care
> more about a lower monthly cost.
>
> What is strange is how many people have no concept of how much data they
> use in general and how much data they use when they could be using
> either wi-fi on their phone or some other internet access device. They
> are just positive that they need unlimited data, just as many people
> were sure that unlimited long distance on their land line was always a
> better deal than a low cost pay-by-the minute LD carrier.
>
> I think the reason that some people get so upset when all these studies
> point out just how low median data usage is is because they are the ones
> pulling up the mean data usage and can't accept that their usage model
> is neither the norm, nor applicable to everyone else. You often see an
> attitude of "what I do must be the best thing for everyone because I'm
> doing it." That's why I'm always very careful to point out the drawbacks
> of a service like Page Plus, and explain why it might not be the best
> option for everyone, even though I find it to be good for me personally.

Nobody gets upset. You are just being called on the nonsense you write.

>
> Over the years I have found that if you want to have credibility with
> your customers that you need to be able to point out both the pros and
> cons of your product versus your competitors product. The salespeople
> can go ashen when an engineer points out any tiny advantage of a
> competitor's product, but when it's an audience of engineers they like
> the facts explained.

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 00:00:51 +0000 (UTC), Justin
<nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:

>A motorola razr can use data and in fact one of the main options
>around the circle navigation thing is mobile web, which uses data
>just starting the damn thing up if you're not careful.

I used razrs for years, and it never needed 'mobile web' to start,
(in fact I have 2 old UNLOCKED ones if anyone wants them, cheap).
but ok, no matter what was used, he's running up $700 in 2 months.

One can also have Verizon shut off 'data' access...

Parents should of seen that the 1st month. Besides, a 13 yr old
would at best just need a PHONE' not a DATA phone. If ya want
a 13 yr old to use DATA, then you teach them how to use it
without so much costs. It's the same thing if he had access to a land
line, and dialed long dist all the time, and the parents don't have
the right plan to let that happen without big time costs.

It's not Verizon's fault the kid wasn't taught properly, or the
parents didn't tell them, or the parents didn't know reality.


JJTj





"..he lies to me about my gun
.....being loaded, or not.."

On 6/23/2011 3:48 PM, Justin wrote:
> Carl wrote on [Thu, 23 Jun 2011 15:10:53 -0400]:
>> ruthgree wrote:
>>> My 13 y.o. son ran up about $700 a month in no-data-plan download
>>> charges for the last two months...we missed last month's bill so we
>>> weren't able to switch it to a data plan. He thought that there was
>>> no internet use by the games he downloaded. Verizon agreed to put him
>>> on a data plan for this month and reduce last month's charges by 25%,
>>> plus a $50 "goodwill" credit. We've been customers for almost 10
>>> years.
>>>
>>> Is there anything more we can do?
>>>
>>> And yes, we've turned off the Internet on his phone after this billing
>>> period ends (tomorrow) and have made arrangements for him to work off
>>> part of the charges (he had been asked to consult with my husband
>>> regarding any data charges).
>>>
>>> I completely agree about there needing to be some kind of capping and
>>> notice for excessive use by anyone.
>>>
>>> Any strategies working to reduce what we owe?
>>>
>>>
>> My response here is not meant to be directed at you, the OP, and I
>> understand both your plight and your seeking of suggestions to reduce your
>> burden.
>>
>> But after reading many of the responses here, I felt compelled to respond to
>> the indignant and self-righteous responses of so many of you who think that
>> you have some inalienable right to shirk your responsibilities. I
>> particularly am enamored of the people who go right to "threat mode", ie.
>> "tell them you're going to drop them", "sue them", etc. in order to get your
>> way, whether you are right or wrong.
>>
>> When did it become that we as consumers got to feel that we have no share in
>> the responsibility of making contracts with others, whether small stores or
>> large companies?
>>
>> Beyond asking why someone believes their 13 year old needs to have a data
>> phone at all, when did that 13 year-olds parents stop having the
>> responsibility to monitor and know what their child was doing?
>>
>> With all due respect once again to the OP's plight and the hardship
>> incurred, it seems to me that Verizon was more than fair to you in trying to
>> alleviate some of your financial burden. Suck up your error, pay the bill,
>> and exercise more care in the future.
>
> While you may feel they were more than fair, there is no way to
> setup alerts that you are going to be hit by a huge data bill such as
> this.
>
> Verizon needs to setup processes whereby if your usage is unusually
> large (and double the usual monthly bill cost should automatically
> be included in this) you are notified by text or call.
>
>

It's hardly Verizon Wireless' responsibility to monitor your kid's cell
phone usage!

If you don't know who's responsible, find a convenient mirror!!!!!!

It's that Guy again wrote on [Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:38:02 -0400]:
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 00:00:51 +0000 (UTC), Justin
> <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>>A motorola razr can use data and in fact one of the main options
>>around the circle navigation thing is mobile web, which uses data
>>just starting the damn thing up if you're not careful.
>
> I used razrs for years, and it never needed 'mobile web' to start,

No, starting the mobile web used data

> (in fact I have 2 old UNLOCKED ones if anyone wants them, cheap).
> but ok, no matter what was used, he's running up $700 in 2 months.

And you just can't do that with a smart phone unless he has no data plan
and verizon requires a data plan for all smart phones

> One can also have Verizon shut off 'data' access...

yes... you can find that out after the first month

> Parents should of seen that the 1st month.

Not disagreeing with this.

> would at best just need a PHONE' not a DATA phone.

Find one!

On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 00:55:23 +0000 (UTC), Justin
<nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:

>Yeah, it's not the responsibility of the company that works 24/7 to bilk
>as much money from you as possible to make it simple to monitor the usage
>or provide any kind of warning your bill is going to be 700% the norm.

Then get the kid a pay as you use phone. How did Verizon know
it wasn't a adult doing it? ANYONE can say their kid did it, and
I'm not saying the OP is doing that. Read the flocking bill.

>Their job is to make it easy for you to, with zero warning, pile up huge
>bills.

If you are stupid. The 1st bill should of tipped them off. If
they paid that, how does Verizon know what is going on?

>Customer service be damned.

Not their fault either. All they had to do is call to
get the numbers..or go online. I can do that.

JJTj





If you wanna go crazy and act like a clown,
Be the laughing stock all over town,
That's your red wagon,
That's your red wagon,
So just keep draggin' your red wagon along!

If you stick your nose some place it don't belong,
Don't you come to me if things go wrong!
That's your red wagon,
That's your red wagon,
So just keep draggin' your red wagon along!

If you wanna smoke hop, drink 'china tea',
Give ya Jelly Roll away for free..
That's your red wagon,
That's your red wagon,
So just keep draggin' your red wagon along!

When you're making your bed,
Remember you'll do the lying there!
When you buttered your bread,
Don't expect me to eat your share!

If you're gonna play horses and blow your dough,
Don't you run to me if they don't show!
That's your red wagon,
That's your red wagon,
So just keep draggin' your red wagon along!

So the one you left me for is tired of you,
Baby, why call me 'cause I'm tired too?
That's your red wagon,
That's your red wagon,
So just keep draggin' your red wagon along!

Now you've finally learned
That you get burned when you play with fire!
Don't come running to me,
You can't use me for your spare tyre!

If you don't have love songs to fit my key,
Baby, don't sing your blues to me!
That's your red wagon,
That's your red wagon,
So just keep draggin' your red wagon along!