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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:45 PM
Robert Peirce
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

In article <1ardzj7atxi5q$.1hq55x1rl8y1j.dlg@40tude.net>,
tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net> wrote:

> Well, Calibre won't do any of that natively, without outside help. And
> what's more, Calibre's Quick-Start Guide actually warns:
>
> <cite>
> : In the USA there is a law known as the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
> : (DMCA). This law makes it illegal to circumvent a copy protection system
> : (DRM is such a copy protection system). It also makes it illegal to produce
> : tools, distribute tools, and aid in circumvention.
> </cite>


I don't think I actually loaded it but I seem to have the outside help.
Maybe it is because I download purchases to the Kindle.app on my Mac.

As for DRM, my wife and I both have Kindles. If one of us buys a book
and the other wants to read it, it would be possible to read it on the
other's Kindle, but it is easier to load it on your own. Yes, it was
probably possible to get them both under a single registration, but
she's owned hers for a year, I just got mine last December and I am the
primary downloader of new books.

While I suppose family sharing is counter to the goals of DRM, I have
zero problem doing it. I would have a problem if I were trying to
re-sell it to third parties.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:57 PM
Robert Peirce
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

In article <pui5j7hm7ism49tq2a2mh02c5iokd42rs3@4ax.com>,
nobody@nada.com wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:18:48 -0500, Robert Peirce
> <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>
> >One problem for us is the desire to compare other people to where we
> >are. I ran into a similar situation with my mother-in-law a number of
> >years back. She was comparing the terrible working conditions in the
> >Pittsburgh steel mills in the 1940s to the 1980s. I suggested she
> >compare them to the 1900s. From our point-of-view they were terrible.
> >From the point-of-view of the people who lived then they weren't great
> >and they wanted them to be better but they were better off than just a
> >few years earlier. A similar situation is going on in China.

>
> What Pittsburgh steel mills? Most of them have gone overseas, many to
> China. I don't consider exporting the jobs improving labor conditions.


1900, 1940 and 1980. They were still around then. The USW was working
to shut them down, but it took a while.

> Human nature, or a free market system, doesn't work well except in the
> absence of any externalities. And even the US has laws to guarantee a
> certain level of wages and working conditions, and restrictions on
> child, even prison, labor. Human nature without the humanity isn't in
> OUR nature as Americans. China is pretty much lacking in this area.


Actually, it works perfectly. Buyers try to get the lowest price they
can. Sellers try to get the highest. They meet where both think they
are getting a good deal.

Most restrictions are counter-productive. Minimum wage laws, for
example, guarantee a minimum wage of $0 to anybody who isn't worth
whatever the legislated minimum happens to be. Teen unemployment used
to be about the same as adult unemployment. Now it is 2-3x higher.

> I am a supporter of free markets in theory but as some Nobel economist
> have shown, it only gives the best and most fair results in the
> absence of any externalities and perfect capital markets. The world
> economic system we have doesn't satisfy there conditions, not by a
> long shot. We need rules to level the playing field. Pure free
> markets would allow employing children and importing workers to
> undercut US wages. If you look at our own labor history, capitalism
> didn't stop child labor, laws and the government did.


In other words, you are in favor of free markets as long as they are not
free. Restrictions tend to distort markets, but they eventually
self-correct. It is unfortunate that it takes as long as it does
sometimes and can be catastrophic when it finally happens, but it takes
a while to convince people, for example, that living off the government
only works until the money runs out. We've been at it for 100 years and
only now are some people wising up.

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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:59 PM
Robert Peirce
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

In article <jli5j7tip3b8cg1kjm49913mt2v7ltpdoa@4ax.com>,
nobody@nada.com wrote:


> You can get Kindle and Nook apps for iPad, other tablets, phones, etc.
> What is the need to remove DRM? I more often convert ePubs to Kindle
> so I can read it there.


I have kindle readers on my Mac, iPod and two Kindles. My Kindles are
registered to two different people and Calibre makes it easy to go back
and forth. I don't see a lot of epub books, but that would work as well.

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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 02:36 PM
Robert Peirce
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

In article <bob-AEA73A.14570410022012@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> In article <pui5j7hm7ism49tq2a2mh02c5iokd42rs3@4ax.com>,
> nobody@nada.com wrote:
>
> > What Pittsburgh steel mills? Most of them have gone overseas, many to
> > China. I don't consider exporting the jobs improving labor conditions.

>
> 1900, 1940 and 1980. They were still around then. The USW was working
> to shut them down, but it took a while.


I forgot to mention there are still a number of mills in the Pittsburgh
area, much fewer than before but still some. The USW have not totally
succeeded yet.

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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2012, 08:06 PM
nobody@nada.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:57:04 -0500, Robert Peirce
<bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

>In article <pui5j7hm7ism49tq2a2mh02c5iokd42rs3@4ax.com>,
> nobody@nada.com wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 08:18:48 -0500, Robert Peirce
>> <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>>
>> >One problem for us is the desire to compare other people to where we
>> >are. I ran into a similar situation with my mother-in-law a number of
>> >years back. She was comparing the terrible working conditions in the
>> >Pittsburgh steel mills in the 1940s to the 1980s. I suggested she
>> >compare them to the 1900s. From our point-of-view they were terrible.
>> >From the point-of-view of the people who lived then they weren't great
>> >and they wanted them to be better but they were better off than just a
>> >few years earlier. A similar situation is going on in China.

>>
>> What Pittsburgh steel mills? Most of them have gone overseas, many to
>> China. I don't consider exporting the jobs improving labor conditions.

>
>1900, 1940 and 1980. They were still around then. The USW was working
>to shut them down, but it took a while.
>
>> Human nature, or a free market system, doesn't work well except in the
>> absence of any externalities. And even the US has laws to guarantee a
>> certain level of wages and working conditions, and restrictions on
>> child, even prison, labor. Human nature without the humanity isn't in
>> OUR nature as Americans. China is pretty much lacking in this area.

>
>Actually, it works perfectly. Buyers try to get the lowest price they
>can. Sellers try to get the highest. They meet where both think they
>are getting a good deal.


"Perfectly" would then seem to allow child labor or unsafe working
conditions or insider trading.
>
>Most restrictions are counter-productive. Minimum wage laws, for
>example, guarantee a minimum wage of $0 to anybody who isn't worth
>whatever the legislated minimum happens to be. Teen unemployment used
>to be about the same as adult unemployment. Now it is 2-3x higher.


Yes, some people aren't worth minimum wage, but we pay them one way or
the other via public assistance. All restrictions are
counter-productive, but in a civilized country maximum prodctivity
isn't the only goal. Totally free markets only produce equitable
results for all parties only if two conditions are met - 1) there are
no economic externalities (third party actions, think taxes) and 2)
perfect capital markets (no transaction or bankruptcy costs, perfect
information, and unlimited access to borrowing). That's not the real
world.

Teen employment is down for several reasons. One is more indulgent
parents who give them things. Another is the flooding of the unskiled
labor pool with immigrants, legal or not, who will work cheaper and
full time, and are more exploitable.
>
>> I am a supporter of free markets in theory but as some Nobel economist
>> have shown, it only gives the best and most fair results in the
>> absence of any externalities and perfect capital markets. The world
>> economic system we have doesn't satisfy there conditions, not by a
>> long shot. We need rules to level the playing field. Pure free
>> markets would allow employing children and importing workers to
>> undercut US wages. If you look at our own labor history, capitalism
>> didn't stop child labor, laws and the government did.

>
>In other words, you are in favor of free markets as long as they are not
>free. Restrictions tend to distort markets, but they eventually
>self-correct. It is unfortunate that it takes as long as it does
>sometimes and can be catastrophic when it finally happens, but it takes
>a while to convince people, for example, that living off the government
>only works until the money runs out. We've been at it for 100 years and
>only now are some people wising up.


Even Adam Smith was not in favor of absolutely free markets if they
interefered with the national economy. I'm in favor of as few
restrictons as necessary to avoid human misery and to insure fairness.
Some restraint of the derivatives market would have been a positive
thing. One major problem there was that there was little information
about the products and misinformation about the risk.

So yes, I don't want uncontrolled absolute free markets. I want fair
markets that come as close as possible to free markets.

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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2012, 08:08 PM
nobody@nada.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

On Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:36:45 -0500, Robert Peirce
<bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

>In article <bob-AEA73A.14570410022012@5ad64b5e.bb.sky.com>,
> Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <pui5j7hm7ism49tq2a2mh02c5iokd42rs3@4ax.com>,
>> nobody@nada.com wrote:
>>
>> > What Pittsburgh steel mills? Most of them have gone overseas, many to
>> > China. I don't consider exporting the jobs improving labor conditions.

>>
>> 1900, 1940 and 1980. They were still around then. The USW was working
>> to shut them down, but it took a while.

>
>I forgot to mention there are still a number of mills in the Pittsburgh
>area, much fewer than before but still some. The USW have not totally
>succeeded yet.


And the point is? The steel industry is all but gone and other major
manufacturing suppliers of good jobs are headed in the same direction.
This is what global markets (and free markets) do. They seek to reduce
costs.

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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2012, 08:22 PM
nobody@nada.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 16:32:58 -0700, Todd Allcock
<elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:

>At 09 Feb 2012 13:39:40 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 23:05:43 -0700, Todd Allcock
>> <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>>
>> >At 08 Feb 2012 18:29:18 -0800 nobody@nada.com wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Fire is a great deal, but can't access the android market.

>Similar
>> >> to the iPad, what you can get is limited to what Amazon provides.
>> >
>> >Kinda sorta. It's cumbersome, but apps can by sideloaded without

>rooting:
>> >
>> ><http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/11/kindle-fire-sideload/>
>> >
>> >(And the fact that the Fire doesn't block sideloading is in itself a
>> >testament to the fact that Amazon isn't trying to "control" the

>device.)
>>
>> But you need an android device to get the apks. If they weren't trying
>> to control the device, they'd just let you have android market on it.

>
>You need the .apks. Another android device is one way to get them.
>
>
>> >In reality, for most folks, the Amazon Market has a wide enough

>selection
>> >not to ned another market, or go through the hassle of sideloading apps.

>
>>
>> Probably true for most Fire potential customers.

>
>Probably true for most Android customers period, except perhaps the geeks
>and power users, (who wouldn't touch a Fire with a ten-foot pole anyway.)


Not so. Why else would people be rooting it to get its full potential?
It's a great tablet but greater if more open.

You can make the same comparisons for Mac versus PC as for real
android versus android tethered to a single supplier or an iThing
tethered to Apple.
>
>
>> >I can't remember the last time I downloaded anything from Google's

>market
>> >to my Android devices. Amazon has everything I need, and I've scored

>some
>> >real deals, including the regularly $15 QuickOffice, from their "free

>app
>> >of the day" program. The crap-to-gem ratio seems much better in

>Amazon's
>> >market as well. Wading through a few thousand vetted apps on Amazon is
>> >far more pleasant than fighting through hundreds of thousands of apps
>> >that the only barrier to entry was a $25 dev payment.

>>
>> You do need to be smart about what apps you get. I do have some that
>> Amazon can't supply (and some android market doesn't have either).

>
>
>I'll go out on a limb and guess few if any of those have a broad appeal,
>and are mostly tweaks and utilities.


The main one is Talkatone, which lets me use GoogleVoice and data,
which I have plenty of, rather than voice minutes, which are limited.

There are numerous apps for controlling what's on the phone (removing
carrier inflicted junk) or doing complete backups of apps and data to
the cloud. Are these tweaks? Only to people who don't want to do that.
One guy's tweak may be another's essential.
>
>
>> >> I
>> >> was ready to get a Nook Color (which also can't use the android
>> >> market) and stick in a real android OS sd card...
>> >
>> >
>> >Don't blame Amazon and B&N entirely for the Apple-like control. Google
>> >maintains control over what devices are allowed access to the Android
>> >market, and with their custom Android builds, Google probably wouldn't
>> >let them have access even if they wanted it. (Same goes for all of

>those
>> >cheap Chinese import crap-tabs- they aren't blessed by Google, so they
>> >don't get Google's suite of apps, including Gmail and android Market. I
>> >had to hack the market on one I owned for a few months, but Amazon

>market
>> >downloaded and installed just fine.)

>>
>> From what I have read, it was Amazon, not Google, that made that
>> decision.

>
>
>Quite possibly. I just doubt Google would've allowed it anyway. Fire runs
>Android 2.3, and Google has never allowed the Market or other pre-loaded
>Google apps on a tablet not running 3.0. (I think there were a few
>exceptions made for OEMs that shipped tablets before 3.0 was ready, using
>2.3 as an interim.)
>
>> My other nit with the Fire is no sd card slot, and it's not
>> a particularly good reader.

>
>Agreed on both counts, but the occasional Black Friday steal aside, the
>$200 price point can forgive a lot. Your Asus isn't really a $250 tablet,
>but a $400 tablet, si they really aren't comparable.


A good deal these days for a cheap tablet is the Nook Color for $200
and putting in a SD Card with real android on it. Then you can put
Kindle app on it and have as good a reader as the Fire but access to
the android market.
>
>


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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2012, 09:09 PM
XS11E
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Any way around the requirement to have a data package?

nobody@nada.com wrote:

<snipped off topic garbage>

Back to the OP's question, the answer is NO! Sorry.



--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

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