Apple Opens iPhone Dev Center

Today, Apple Opens iPhone Dev Center... Complete with technical
documentation, sample code, and videos through ADC on iTunes, the iPhone
Dev Center is a single source for information on designing, coding and
optimizing applications for iPhone and iPod touch.

http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/

Enjoy!

On Oct 24, 7:25 pm, Oxford <colalovesm...@smart.com> wrote:
> Today, Apple Opens iPhone Dev Center... Complete with technical
> documentation, sample code, and videos through ADC on iTunes, the iPhone
> Dev Center is a single source for information on designing, coding and
> optimizing applications for iPhone and iPod touch.
>
> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/

no native app info there . . .

not that I really need it, I've got enough to keep me busy doing
parallel dev on OS X proper. . .

plus back in the day *I* was the guy making the SDKs (10.5 is
apparently shipping with *3* of my sample projects in the /Developer/
Examples/ LOL)

On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Mr X wrote:
>> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
> no native app info there . . .

Of course not. It's all about how you hack your web page to make it work
with the iPhone.

So now, besides the real Internet (which you access with a real browser
such as IE or Firefox) and the mobile Internet (which you access with
WAP), there's now the iPhone Internet (which you access with the world's
worst browser, Safari).

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

On Oct 25, 7:59 am, Mark Crispin <M...@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Mr X wrote:
> >>http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
> > no native app info there . . .
>
> Of course not. It's all about how you hack your web page to make it work
> with the iPhone.
>
> So now, besides the real Internet (which you access with a real browser
> such as IE or Firefox) and the mobile Internet (which you access with
> WAP), there's now the iPhone Internet (which you access with the world's
> worst browser, Safari).
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
> Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
> Si vis pacem, para bellum.

The 'real' internet has to deal with monstrosities like IE, that much
you are right about.

But can you explain to me why we need an extra protocol for a 'mobile
internet' when we can simply use css to adapt our pages to the iPhone?

Oxford wrote:
> Today, Apple Opens iPhone Dev Center... Complete with technical
> documentation, sample code, and videos through ADC on iTunes, the iPhone
> Dev Center is a single source for information on designing, coding and
> optimizing applications for iPhone and iPod touch.
>
> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
>
> Enjoy!

You did claim that you know all about netiquette so why did you start a
new thread in alt.cellular.verizon ?

In news:QPWdnSqttvdqBL3anZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@comcast.com,
George <george@nospam.invalid> typed:
> Oxford wrote:
>> Today, Apple Opens iPhone Dev Center... Complete with technical
>> documentation, sample code, and videos through ADC on iTunes, the iPhone
>> Dev Center is a single source for information on designing, coding and
>> optimizing applications for iPhone and iPod touch.
>>
>> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
>>
>> Enjoy!
>
> You did claim that you know all about netiquette so why did you start a
> new thread in alt.cellular.verizon ?


My guess is that he wanted us all to know that the iPhone web browser
requires optimizing Web 2.0 applications and content for iPhone. lol

Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> wrote in news:colalovesmacs-
847E09.20250324102007@mpls-nnrp-03.inet.qwest.net:

> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/

All nicely company controlled, as usual.....

Remember the big reward for the first guy to run Linux on the Xbox?
I'd just love to see the iPhone bootup with little Tux waving at
you from the screen....(c;

THAT would be HILARIOUS!

Larry
--
Why, by the way, did you post this to Verizon not attws or cingular
for the customers to see? Is there an agenda I'm missing?

Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in
news:alpine.WNT.0.9999.0710242350350.5368@Shimo-
Tomobiki.Panda.COM:

> the mobile Internet (which you access with
> WAP)

That's odd. I'm using Opera 8 or Mozilla on my pocket box:
http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n800

The OS2008 Linux coming out is dropping the Opera preference for
a new Firefox/Mozilla browser. You can switch browser engines
with a click, if you like. Mozilla is faster, but Opera has an
optimizer server to make the monster pages easier to read and
navigate on the little screens.

WAP really SUCKS! That's terrible. The N800 and the new N810
are 800 X 480 pixels. Most webpages display horizontally
complete in full screen mode at the touch of a button on top.
The other 2 buttons (+ and -), when the browser is on top, are
the zoom buttons to see the little types.

Larry
--
You can tell there's extremely
intelligent life in the universe
because they have never called Earth.

Belphegor <huelse@gmail.com> wrote in news:1193318366.289802.252910
@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com:

> we can simply use css to adapt our pages to the iPhone

"Adapt"? What do you have to "adapt"? I thought it rendered
webpages as it came.

Larry
--
http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n800
......already "adapted"

At 25 Oct 2007 15:57:47 +0000 Larry wrote:

> WAP really SUCKS! That's terrible.

Depends on yur POV I suppose. I have several WAP pages bookmarked on my
home PC because I like the simplicity of reading information without
goofy animated GIFs or flash "intros," banner ads, or pop-ups. Until
Accuweather ruined it, their PDA site was the quickest and easiest way to
grab a quick 5-day forcast.

> The N800 and the new N810
> are 800 X 480 pixels. Most webpages display horizontally
> complete in full screen mode at the touch of a button on top.
> The other 2 buttons (+ and -), when the browser is on top, are
> the zoom buttons to see the little types.
>
> Larry


Wow the guy who used to warn us about "webpage spam" is actually giddy
with excitement over reading webpages on a tablet! ;-)

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, Larry wrote:
>> the mobile Internet (which you access with WAP)
> That's odd. I'm using Opera 8 or Mozilla on my pocket box:
> http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n800

Oh, absolutely, the Nokia N800 accesses the real Internet, whether with
Opera (which also has a version for mobile phones) or Mozilla.

The Nokia N800 and N810 are fine devices, no question about it.

For less than you pay for an iPhone, you can buy a N800 from Amazon (at
$230) plus a EVDO phone from Verizon. Then you would have better Internet
access AND better phone service!

> WAP really SUCKS! That's terrible.

I agree. WAP was intended for tiny resolution screens and 2G networks.

> The N800 and the new N810 are 800 X 480 pixels.

2.5 times the number of pixels of an iPhone...

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

In article <1193318366.289802.252910@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups .com>,
Belphegor <huelse@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Oct 25, 7:59 am, Mark Crispin <M...@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
> > On Wed, 24 Oct 2007, Mr X wrote:
> > >>http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
> > > no native app info there . . .
> >
> > Of course not. It's all about how you hack your web page to make it work
> > with the iPhone.
> >
> > So now, besides the real Internet (which you access with a real browser
> > such as IE or Firefox) and the mobile Internet (which you access with
> > WAP), there's now the iPhone Internet (which you access with the world's
> > worst browser, Safari).
> >
> > -- Mark --
> >
> > http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
> > Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
> > Si vis pacem, para bellum.
>
> The 'real' internet has to deal with monstrosities like IE, that much
> you are right about.
>
> But can you explain to me why we need an extra protocol for a 'mobile
> internet' when we can simply use css to adapt our pages to the iPhone?

Mark doesn't know about CSS, apparently.

Among other things.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, Steve Hix wrote:
> Mark doesn't know about CSS, apparently.

I know about CSS. I see nothing about CSS that is specific to iPhone as
opposed to being general principles for any web design.

If iPhone requires specific web design for iPhone, as opposed to proper
overall web design, then iPhone creates its own type of web, just like WAP
has done.

There should be no need for a development center on how to design web
pages for iPhone. It was a design mistake that a web server is able to
identify the client implementation at all; that creates this type of
fragmented "do this for iPhone, do this for IE, do this for Firefox, do
this for Blurdybloop" quagmire that we find ourselves in today.

I don't expect Mac fanboys to understand the argument in the previous
paragraph.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

On 2007-10-24 23:59:08 -0700, Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> said:

{who cares?]

Would you happen to be the same Mark Crispin from whom Lynn Gold is so
happily divorced? The guy who used to pollute the comp.sys.next.*
newsgroups?

-jcr

On 2007-10-24 23:34:12 -0700, Mr X <imouttahere@mac.com> said:

> no native app info there . . .

Not yet, of course. The SDK doesn't come out until February, and that
includes the documentation, which is being written as we speak.

-jcr

On 2007-10-25 08:57:47 -0700, Larry <noone@home.com> said:

> WAP really SUCKS!

Sure, but given the capabilities of the devices for which it was
developed, it was worth a try. It showed us some of the potential of
mobile web access. I wouldn't consider it a failed experiment, just a
technology that was OK for its time, and can be abandoned now.

-jcr

On Oct 25, 11:39 pm, Mark Crispin <m...@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, Steve Hix wrote:
> > Mark doesn't know about CSS, apparently.
>
> I know about CSS. I see nothing about CSS that is specific to iPhone as
> opposed to being general principles for any web design.
>
> If iPhone requires specific web design for iPhone, as opposed to proper
> overall web design, then iPhone creates its own type of web, just like WAP
> has done.
>
> There should be no need for a development center on how to design web
> pages for iPhone. It was a design mistake that a web server is able to
> identify the client implementation at all; that creates this type of
> fragmented "do this for iPhone, do this for IE, do this for Firefox, do
> this for Blurdybloop" quagmire that we find ourselves in today.
>
> I don't expect Mac fanboys to understand the argument in the previous
> paragraph.
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://panda.com/mrc
> Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Please reconsider what you are saying here:

> If iPhone requires specific web design for iPhone, as opposed to proper
> overall web design, then iPhone creates its own type of web, just like WAP
> has done.

I can tell you very confidently that a css style sheet is easier to
implement on a web site than to re-purpose that site to conform to
WAP.

Additionally to that, css is a well understood and widely used method
of adjusting to different media needs.

WAP is not, and most likely, never will be.

The comparison you are presenting is terribly askew.

And not in your favour, especially as the Browser you recommend, IE,
is one of the main reasons alternative style sheets have to be
developed that would be entirely redundant if that browser worked
according to standards.

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> > http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
>
> All nicely company controlled, as usual.....
>
> Remember the big reward for the first guy to run Linux on the Xbox?
> I'd just love to see the iPhone bootup with little Tux waving at
> you from the screen....(c;
>
> THAT would be HILARIOUS!

Apple wouldn't care one bit. They encourage that type of development.
Linux has been on the iPod for many years. Apple doesn't do a thing
about it. Same with the iPhone.

You have to remember Apple is very hippy, not control freaks like MS.

-

Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:

> > The N800 and the new N810 are 800 X 480 pixels.
>
> 2.5 times the number of pixels of an iPhone...

and heavy / bulky / thick as a brick, poor battery life, poor
resolution, no core graphics, bad browsers, no multi-touch, bad resell
value, no ipod, no glass screen...

other than that, you have a winner Mark!

Mark Crispin <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:

> > The N800 and the new N810 are 800 X 480 pixels.
>
> 2.5 times the number of pixels of an iPhone...

but not as clear as the iphone. that sucks. nokia has no clue about
handling resolution.

fuzzy, fuzzy, very similar to using a windows PC, no thanks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:N800.jpg

Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote in news:ffqvvq
$suf$1@aioe.org:

> Accuweather ruined it, their PDA site was the quickest and
easiest way to
> grab a quick 5-day forcast.
>
>
http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationcatalog2006/
https://garage.maemo.org/projects/omweather

I'm running omweather (aka Other Maemo Weather), a nice little
applet that stays on the home screen. I have it setup to update
every 30 minutes, but I usually force it with a click when I come
online. It gets its data from Weather Underground and displays
how many ever days you like as little graphical boxes across or
up/down, wherever you place the applet box. When you click on a
day, that day opens into a larger box with the graphical
forecast/temp/etc. until you click anything else. With this
larger box open, you click the SETTINGS if you like or the UPDATE
button to get fresh data off of the scheduled times. The first
box is CURRENT readings.

The other neat thing it does in SETTINGS is gives you menus of
all the places Weather Underground tracks on the planet and you
add whatever places you want to your own list. With more than
one on the list, the applet box has a tiny CITY bar with two
arrows on the main applet box. Click the arrows to scroll fwd or
back through your fav cities, which causes all the day boxes to
instantly switch to that city's current and forecasts. It's
really slick, no spam, no webpages, no browser boot or overhead.
The applet is really tiny....normal for Linux.

For more comprehensive Weather, I'll let you in on a
secret...Plymouth State College, Plymouth, NH:
http://vortex.plymouth.edu/
The students run one of the nicest, NO SPAM weather websites I
have listed. I found it years ago. It's run by PSC's Meterology
Department. Important to us in Charleston, it always has the
most comprehensive, straight-forward coverage (sat photos, NWS
text discussions, pictures) of every tropical storm BEFORE those
spam-soaked commercial sites. They must have some really direct
connections to NHC/NWS data. A little hurricane symbol blinks in
red on the left panel over "tropical weather" when new data has
come in.

Mt Washington's weather is fun to read in winter...brrr....(c;
The website is a pleasure to view. Don't hesitate to email them
a nice thank you of appreciation for a job very well done.


Larry
--
The last crack I'll simply ignore as unnecessary....
I don't do much web browsing on it at all. There are applets to
do really neat stuff like internet radio, weather, those kinds of
things without opening the browser. I open it once to get the
URL for the radio stream to feed the players. Mplayer puts two
applet boxes on the main screen, one for internet radio and one
for the internal FM stereo receiver. The FM player has access to
an online database so it loads itself of all the station in the
area you tell it to, making loading the receiver a couple of
clicks with unlimited station presets. Stopping in Peoria,
tonight, load up Peoria online and play FM. Almost too easy.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, Belphegor wrote:
> I can tell you very confidently that a css style sheet is easier to
> implement on a web site than to re-purpose that site to conform to
> WAP.
> Additionally to that, css is a well understood and widely used method
> of adjusting to different media needs.
> WAP is not, and most likely, never will be.

All this is true. Nonetheless, it is fundamentally wrong to use of CSS
filters to produce specific results for iPhone (or for that matter IE).
Consider the reports of pages not rendering the same on iPod Touch as
iPhone, in spite of basically identical capabilities.

What I'm advocating is use of CSS based upon device/browser capabilities,
never mind that it may be called "iPhone" or "IE" or "Blurdybloop".

> And not in your favour, especially as the Browser you recommend, IE,

I don't "recommend" IE. I use it, but I also use Firefox at least as
often (probably more often).

> is one of the main reasons alternative style sheets have to be
> developed that would be entirely redundant if that browser worked
> according to standards.

Aye, that's the rub of the matter. All too often, the philosophy of many
current developers is to implement to cause a particular behavior in some
other implementation, rather than implement according to the standard.

That is the quick and easy way, but it causes tremendous problems for a
any third implementation that follows the standard. Microsoft is (justly)
criticized when it does this practice; but it is not specific to
Microsoft.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > Today, Apple Opens iPhone Dev Center... Complete with technical
> > documentation, sample code, and videos through ADC on iTunes, the iPhone
> > Dev Center is a single source for information on designing, coding and
> > optimizing applications for iPhone and iPod touch.
> >
> > http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
> >
> > Enjoy!
>
> You did claim that you know all about netiquette so why did you start a
> new thread in alt.cellular.verizon ?

simply because tverizon users have the most to gain by developing for
the iphone. they are locked into nokia, blackberry, so they are trapped.

at least apple offers a more open option, plus a far better phone.

verizon users are moving over in droves, 4,500 per day by some estimates
but wanted to get the word out to programmers for the big iphone pushes
coming up.

-

Belphegor <huelse@gmail.com> wrote in
news:1193355736.574190.216840@y42g2000hsy.googlegr oups.com:

> I can tell you very confidently that a css style sheet is
easier to
> implement on a web site than to re-purpose that site to conform
to
> WAP.
>
> Additionally to that, css is a well understood and widely used
method
> of adjusting to different media needs.
>
>

This all goes along with Apple's Do-It-Our-Way of thinking.

People buy computer equipment BACKWARDS. They buy a pretty box
with no idea what they want.

First, look at what you want to do with it....and HOW you want to
do it.
Then, look around for software that does BEST what you want at
the most reasonable price.
Then, look at the software to see what operating system it runs
under.
Then, find a box that runs that operating system the most
efficient and economical way to meet the specifications.

Buying hardware is the LAST STEP in the process, not the first.

You should be holding the software in your hand while shopping
for hardware so you can take it for a ride before buying a bunch
of overpriced hardware that won't run it, or runs it under some
stupid converter to make it run under the OS it wasn't designed
for.

Buying hardware FIRST is just STUPID.

Larry
--
"I love the mauve box with the big screen even though I have no
idea what it can do for me! The salesman said it has a 400GHz
motherboard with 8TB of RAM and 12TB hard drive! I only want it
to run Micro$oft Word and to store pictures from my camera."

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> This all goes along with Apple's Do-It-Our-Way of thinking.

ah, Apple has always built machines to allow you to do it exactly "your
way" without the fuss of Microsoft and the clones which lock you into
backwards technology without any control.

> People buy computer equipment BACKWARDS. They buy a pretty box
> with no idea what they want.

But the "pretty design" is exactly what you get "inside and within" the
software. Apple does the "whole product", so if you see a pretty Mac,
you know it's pretty to use, pretty to upgrade, pretty to maintain, etc.

Apple creates the "whole widget", no other company has these advantages
if they buy non-Apple equipment.

> First, look at what you want to do with it....and HOW you want to
> do it.

Yes, agree.

> Then, look around for software that does BEST what you want at
> the most reasonable price.

Yes, agree.

> Then, look at the software to see what operating system it runs
> under.

Ah, but if it doesn't run on a Mac, it won't be of a high enough quality.

> Then, find a box that runs that operating system the most
> efficient and economical way to meet the specifications.

And 99% of the time it's a Mac.

> Buying hardware is the LAST STEP in the process, not the first.

Correct. That's why buying a Mac is the easy choice since it RUNS ALL
SOFTWARE, you don't get locked into just Windows with a Mac, you can run
30 OSs with no issues. You can't do that with a windows machine.

Macs are well known as the most OPEN machines for this very reason.

> You should be holding the software in your hand while shopping
> for hardware so you can take it for a ride before buying a bunch
> of overpriced hardware that won't run it, or runs it under some
> stupid converter to make it run under the OS it wasn't designed
> for.

Well that's only if you are in a blue collar position. If you are a
professional, a Mac will be the way to go 99% of the time.

> Buying hardware FIRST is just STUPID.

Not really, if you go with a Mac you are safe since it runs ALL
software, if you buy just a PC, you are kinda locked out of many
possibilities.

-

Gene Jones <jasin@janus.com> wrote in news:jasin-
59A382.18222425102007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net:

> and heavy / bulky / thick as a brick, poor battery life, poor
> resolution, no core graphics, bad browsers, no multi-touch, bad
resell
> value, no ipod, no glass screen...
>
>

You forgot some other problems with it....

No Apple and its oddball OSX
No AT&T
No cellphone carrier hobbling
No permanent battery
No contracts
No training wheels you can't remove
No special webpages to make it render

Let's address the other points, just for fun at 1AM....
Nokia N800 iPhone
Heavy - 206g 135g
Bulky - 144 x 75 x 13mm 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Display 4.25" 800x480 3.5" 480x320
Speakers front stereo what speakers??
Runtime-standby 250 hours 250 hours
running - who can tell in the real world? Too many variables.
With wifi and BT on, connected to one or the other, streaming
audio or video with backlight on full bright, 16GB of SD cards
installed, 27 processes running, speaker volume wide open,
standard battery - over 4 hours continuous duty.

I wonder what you users are getting with it playing video
brightly, even on earphones with no speakers? Apple's posted
times are hilarious with their "preproduction units":

"# Talk Time: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007
using preproduction iPhone units and software. All talk time
testing was done connected to a 1900MHz network. All settings
were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi
feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Battery life depends
on the cellular network, location, signal strength, feature
configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are
conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
# Standby Time: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007
using preproduction iPhone units and software. All settings were
default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature
Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Battery life depends on the
cellular network, location, signal strength, feature
configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are
conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
# Internet over Wi-Fi: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June
2007 using preproduction iPhone units and software. Internet over
Wi-Fi testing conducted using a closed network and dedicated web
and mail server, simulating browsing to 20 popular URLs and
checking mail once an hour. All settings were default except:
Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join
Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off; WPA2 encryption was
enabled. Battery life depends on the cellular network, location,
signal strength, Wi-Fi connectivity, feature configuration,
usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using
specific iPhone units; actual results may vary. Internet over
EDGE: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007 using
preproduction iPhone units and software. Internet over EDGE
testing conducted over a 1900MHz EDGE, using a dedicated web and
mail server, simulating browsing to 20 popular URLs and checking
mail once an hour. All settings were default except: Call
Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks
and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Battery life depends on the
cellular network, location, signal strength, EDGE connectivity,
feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery
tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results
may vary.
# Video Playback: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007
using preproduction iPhone units and software. Video content was
a repeated 2 hour 23 minute movie purchased from the iTunes
Store. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was
turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-
Brightness were turned off. Battery life depends on the cellular
network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage,
and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using
specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
# Audio Playback: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2007
using preproduction iPhone units and software. The playlist
consisted of 358 unique audio tracks, a combination of content
imported from CDs using iTunes (128-Kbps AAC encoding) and
content purchased from the iTunes Store (128-Kbps AAC encoding).
All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on;
the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Battery
life depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength,
feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery
tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results
may vary."

I wonder how much current "specific iPhone units" use doing the
same thing as YOURS....?? WTF??

If 4 hours isn't enough, I can buy the EXTENDED Sellphone battery
for mine. That'll make it run longer, but without a back panel,
I suspect. We could argue this absurdity all night.

I have no idea what "no core graphics" means. It renders every
webpage that isn't running JAVA. Javascript, Flash 9, Opera 8
(one of the most internet standard compliant web browsers on the
planet). I need a better DivX codec that will render movies
larger than 800 pixels wide in mplayer. I'm missing some codecs
from the iPhone website....DivX, RealVideo/audio, Windoze Media,
Flash video/audio to name the most important ones. I see iPhone
renders only up to 640 x 480 VGA video. You do have a nicer
camera at 2M pixels. Nokia's is made to be a webcam, which works
great for what it was made for. This paragraph also answer the
"poor resolution" crack. 800 pixels beats 480 every time. Once
converted to 800 pixels, DivX movies look beautiful, in spite of
the only 65,000 colors. That extra 3/4" of screen matters, too.

Tell me about "multi-touch"...?? M800 has a touchscreen that
responds correctly to stylus and fingers and handwriting you
train it for. It single clicks, doubleclicks, touch'n'drags to
move the app screen around, but doesn't have that all-important
spread-my-fingers to magnify. I have to press the + and -
buttons on top on either side of the full screen button. What's
"multitouch" do better?? Is that the two fingers?

Bad browsers - Opera 8 and Mozilla Firefox. How awful!

Now let's discuss money.... I paid $222 on buy.com for a new
N800. Add ONE 8GB SD card from the mem store at $68 to be fair
about comparible memory and that comes to $290. Some of you paid
$600 for an 8GB iPhone on opening day when the companies were in
holdback mode. The official price for a NEW one is now $399,
losing you $201, already. UNhacked iPhones only a few months old
are going for about $350. They've lost more money on those
phones than my N800 COST! This doesn't take into account the ATT
termination fee or other money trickery. Some of the hackers are
listing unlocked Iphones with 1.1.1 firmware for around $350.

Sorry....there's only two N800's on Ebay, tonight and their buy
now price is $25 MORE than I paid buy.com for mine. More will
come for sale after the N810 wow's 'em.

The screen looks like polycarbonate. I wish it were NOT
reflective and I wish the metal front of it was FLAT BLACK, but
it's not. The N810 is better in that respect. I hate white-faced
TV appliances with shiny parts that reflect EVERYTHING. Iphone
is the same way. So are most laptops, except a few Dell models,
admirably.

No iPod? Hmm...before I loaded other players and codecs on it,
it played, out of the box:
Supported file formats

* Audio: AAC, AMR, AWB, M4A, MP2, MP3, RA (RealAudio), WAV,
WMA
* Image: BMP, GIF, ICO, JPEG, PNG, TIFF, SVG-tiny
* Video: 3GP, AVI, H.263, MPEG-1, MPEG-4, RV (Real Video)
* Internet radio playlists: M3U, PLS
But, with my downloading a few more really neat players like Kagu
and Canola and UK Media Player and Video Center and Media
Streamer, it plays a LOT more codecs, now....even streams! These
apps and applets installed a lot of libs and they don't tell me
what all codecs they do. It plays everything except my big DivX
movies wider than 800 pixels just fine....

It is interesting comparing them, as has been done on countless
webpages and blogs. But, they're really different boxes other
than OS. Yours is a smartphone. Mine is an Internet appliance.

Mine's phone number costs $60/year each. (It has 2, USA and
London) My interconnect costs $30/year for unlimited service USA
and Canada, incl HI, AK, PR. Europe is 2.1c/min to phones, to
other Skype users, it's all free. Sure hope Skype has a video
driver for the little webcam, soon. I miss it. The webcam works
great on Googletalk and others like it. I bought it, originally,
because it was the first portable Skype phone that would allow me
to logon to free wifi that required a webpage logon to get
access, something my Netgear SPH101 Skype phone would not do.
They went one better. It bypasses the webpage logon, somehow.
It simply connects...??? I don't care how. The wifi transceiver
in it is much better than either the Dell or Gateway laptops I
use. It's a hot wifi box.

Larry
--
2AM...g'night...(c;

Gene Jones <jasin@janus.com> wrote in news:jasin-
1FBDF9.18264925102007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net:

> fuzzy, fuzzy, very similar to using a windows PC, no thanks.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:N800.jpg
>
>

Boy, are you in for a shock! That picture is from the little
webcam that pops out the side of the N800, not playing the
display! The webcam is only 640x480 VGA! Are you talking about
the little webcam or the 4.25" 800 pixel screen?? iPhone takes
much better pictures with its camera....but that's useless as a
webcam sending out live video the Sellphone company doesn't want
you to use it for.

You need to see a DivX movie playing, even from Orb over
Realvideo.

I'd love to compare the screens, side-by-side, looking at an
iPhone camera still picture at full resolution in full screen
mode. That would be a much better comparison than what wiki is
showing you in that jpg.

Tell you what, I know just where we can go for perfect pictures
to compare them. Find an N800 and browse both iPhone and N800 to
http://mahmood.tv/ a blogger in Bahrain. He's a professional
video photographer with his own video production company. He
takes beautiful digital stills around his beautiful garden with
the finest digital cameras on the planet. He posts them to
flickr in groups for all to see. Let's render them on both
iPhone and N800 screens. I'll drop by the deserted ATT company
store and look for myself on the demo units and my N800, tomorrow
if things go without crisis. Find his pictures from his blog.
He posts every day. I don't think you can render his videos,
though. Sorry....

Larry
--
You can tell there's extremely
intelligent life in the universe
because they have never called Earth.

On Oct 26, 1:27 am, Mark Crispin <m...@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007, Belphegor wrote:
> > I can tell you very confidently that a css style sheet is easier to
> > implement on a web site than to re-purpose that site to conform to
> > WAP.
> > Additionally to that, css is a well understood and widely used method
> > of adjusting to different media needs.
> > WAP is not, and most likely, never will be.
>
> All this is true. Nonetheless, it is fundamentally wrong to use of CSS
> filters to produce specific results for iPhone (or for that matter IE).

I really don't think you understand the practice and purpose of css.

The whole idea of css and the separation of content and style is that
you can use style sheets to reformat for different platforms and
media. Thus we add style sheets for printing page to our web sites.
Thus we can also provide styles to make content easier readable for
the visually impaired, or for that matter, more convenient for
visitors who have devices with small screen sizes (such as most mobile
phones).

The result is that all devices and browser are able to display the
content of any document that is coded according to the current
standards.

> Consider the reports of pages not rendering the same on iPod Touch as
> iPhone, in spite of basically identical capabilities.
>
> What I'm advocating is use of CSS based upon device/browser capabilities,
> never mind that it may be called "iPhone" or "IE" or "Blurdybloop".
>
> > And not in your favour, especially as the Browser you recommend, IE,
>
> I don't "recommend" IE. I use it, but I also use Firefox at least as
> often (probably more often).
>

You described IE in your previous post as a 'real browser' and Safari
as 'the worlds worst browser'.

If that is not a recommendation of IE over Safari, you tell me what it
is.

> > is one of the main reasons alternative style sheets have to be
> > developed that would be entirely redundant if that browser worked
> > according to standards.
>
> Aye, that's the rub of the matter. All too often, the philosophy of many
> current developers is to implement to cause a particular behavior in some
> other implementation, rather than implement according to the standard.

So?

Apple states on its web site that:
"And while the Web is always changing, Apple notes, it asks that
anyone building applications stick to the most current languages such
as: HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.0, CSS 2.1 and partial CSS3, ECMAScript 3
(JavaScript), W3C DOM Level 2, and AJAX technologies, including
XMLHTTPRequest ."


>
> That is the quick and easy way, but it causes tremendous problems for a
> any third implementation that follows the standard. Microsoft is (justly)
> criticized when it does this practice; but it is not specific to
> Microsoft.
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http://panda.com/mrc
> Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
> Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.

Oxford wrote:
> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Today, Apple Opens iPhone Dev Center... Complete with technical
>>> documentation, sample code, and videos through ADC on iTunes, the iPhone
>>> Dev Center is a single source for information on designing, coding and
>>> optimizing applications for iPhone and iPod touch.
>>>
>>> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/devcenter/
>>>
>>> Enjoy!
>> You did claim that you know all about netiquette so why did you start a
>> new thread in alt.cellular.verizon ?
>
> simply because tverizon users have the most to gain by developing for
> the iphone. they are locked into nokia, blackberry, so they are trapped.
>
> at least apple offers a more open option, plus a far better phone.
>
> verizon users are moving over in droves, 4,500 per day by some estimates
> but wanted to get the word out to programmers for the big iphone pushes
> coming up.
>
> -
You are just so desirous of having Steve Jobs baby that you don't
realize how silly you look.

But thanks for respecting the netiquette...

In news:colalovesmacs-234096.23511125102007@mpls-nnrp-06.inet.qwest.net,
Oxford <colalovesmacs@smart.com> typed:
> Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>> This all goes along with Apple's Do-It-Our-Way of thinking.
>
> ah, Apple has always built machines to allow you to do it exactly "your
> way" without the fuss of Microsoft and the clones which lock you into
> backwards technology without any control.
>
>> People buy computer equipment BACKWARDS. They buy a pretty box
>> with no idea what they want.
>
> But the "pretty design" is exactly what you get "inside and within" the
> software. Apple does the "whole product", so if you see a pretty Mac,
> you know it's pretty to use, pretty to upgrade, pretty to maintain, etc.
>
> Apple creates the "whole widget", no other company has these advantages
> if they buy non-Apple equipment.
>
>> First, look at what you want to do with it....and HOW you want to
>> do it.
>
> Yes, agree.
>
>> Then, look around for software that does BEST what you want at
>> the most reasonable price.
>
> Yes, agree.
>
>> Then, look at the software to see what operating system it runs
>> under.
>
> Ah, but if it doesn't run on a Mac, it won't be of a high enough quality.
>
>> Then, find a box that runs that operating system the most
>> efficient and economical way to meet the specifications.
>
> And 99% of the time it's a Mac.
>
>> Buying hardware is the LAST STEP in the process, not the first.
>
> Correct. That's why buying a Mac is the easy choice since it RUNS ALL
> SOFTWARE, you don't get locked into just Windows with a Mac, you can run
> 30 OSs with no issues. You can't do that with a windows machine.
>
> Macs are well known as the most OPEN machines for this very reason.
>
>> You should be holding the software in your hand while shopping
>> for hardware so you can take it for a ride before buying a bunch
>> of overpriced hardware that won't run it, or runs it under some
>> stupid converter to make it run under the OS it wasn't designed
>> for.
>
> Well that's only if you are in a blue collar position. If you are a
> professional, a Mac will be the way to go 99% of the time.
>
>> Buying hardware FIRST is just STUPID.
>
> Not really, if you go with a Mac you are safe since it runs ALL
> software, if you buy just a PC, you are kinda locked out of many
> possibilities.
>
> -

If Apple computers and software provide a user with anything they would ever
need to do - Why would an Apple computer owner need another OS especially
Windows?

Since the latest versions of Apple OS uses the same processor as Windows -
AND - if Steve Jobs really wants to overtake Microsoft - why doesn't Apple
just release a version of Apple OS to run on a Windows machine. Then rather
than upgrading to Windows Vista, everyone could upgrade to the Apple OS?