Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
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Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 02:32:46 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
wrote:
>
>"Dave Reckoning" <Dave_Reckoning@notmail.com> wrote in message
>news:qJqdnVlWYJWBQO3YnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.c om...
>> "Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
>> news:timmcn-E892C9.19035301122006@news.iphouse.com...
>>> In article <1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>,
>>> "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>>>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>>>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>>
>>> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>>>
>>>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>>>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>>
>>> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
>>> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
>>> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.
>>
>> This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make
>> the drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because
>> they are off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have
>> to cross those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes
>> the drivers don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway.
>> The worst of them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also
>> this gives the car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them
>> alone. Then theye make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst
>> possible place and put the bikes in the position of having to enter the
>> private domain of the cars with every crossing of a side street.
>>
>> The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the
>> traffic signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!!
>> Street markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that
>> they can drive over anything that gets in their way.
>>
>> Dave Reckoning
>>
>> Noblesville, Indiana
>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>knowledge. Anyone?
Dear Nash,
No citation needed--the back of an envelope will do to check the claim
that "any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head injuries everyday of
the year."
Since "100's" is plural, it must mean 200 or more head injuries.
A rate of 200 cyclist head injuries every day would mean 73,000
injuries per year in "any Chinese city."
So in ten years every bicyclist in "any Chinese city" with 730,000
riders would suffer a head injury.
"Common knowledge" suggests that there is no such carnage.
As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
activity for the general population.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Fri, 1 Dec 2006 20:55:40 -0500, "Dave Reckoning"
<Dave_Reckoning@notmail.com> wrote:
: The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the traffic
: signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!! Street
: markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that they can
: drive over anything that gets in their way.
If that's the best idea you've seen, you should find a better optometrist.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
In article <qkr1n21jel4mqdhu3fq8n1tl1f4blo1p5m@4ax.com>, carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:07:36 GMT, "nash"
> <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote:
>
> >Sorry that was suppose to 100/ day. no need to go postal now
> >
> >peace
>
> Dear Nash,
>
> Nothing postal, just basic arithmetic.
>
> There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
> Chinese city."
>
> 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."
Not to mention that there are hundreds of Chinese cities, if not
thousands (depending on how one defines "city"). Goiing with "hundred"
and "thousand" we get a national incidence of:
36,500 x 100 = 3,650,000 per year.
36,500 x 1,000 = 36,500,000 per year.
If this was the case, then the Chinese population would be decimated
annually by bicycling-related head injuries. I would think that such
injury rates would provoke some sort of governmental or societal
response to reduce the risk.
(misc.consumers.frugal-living snipped per Karen's request, whomever she
may be. And since when do you need a newsgroup to talk about not buying
crap you don't need? Frugality is hardly a difficult concept.)
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
In article <1165022129.626158.129780@73g2000cwn.googlegroups. com>,
"val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Yarper wrote:
> > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> > to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed
> > as working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> > http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...n_is_sentenced
> > _for_bic yclists_death
> >
> > What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
> > throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
> happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
> any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
> Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin
> around with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a
> rarity.
Cell phones are intended to be used while driving. You can tell this by
the fact that coverage in almost all US metropolitan areas is excellent
on highways and spotty to poor more than 1/4 away from highways. In the
Twin Cities metro are there are many, many coverage holes and my phone
(Sprint) is frequently unusable on surface streets and in neighborhoods.
Not that talking on a cell phone and driving is a good idea. A dozen
times a day or more I see people driving neglectfully while talking on
cell phones- all of them probably thinking they are driving fine. NO
ONE drives safely while talking on a cell phone, and hands free phones
don't help much if at all. If you think you can drive safely while
you're talking on your cell phone, you are delusional.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:11:14 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
wrote:
>>>>>>As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
>activity for the general population.
>
>Carl,
>I was talking about Dave's Reckoning and comparing it to China which I still
>think is true. no laws or signs just common sense
Dear Nash,
To jog your memory, here's your entire post:
"Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
knowledge. Anyone?"
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:22:51 -0500, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> replied
>"Dave Reckoning" wrote:
>
>: The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the traffic
>: signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!! Street
>: markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that they can
>: drive over anything that gets in their way.
>
>If that's the best idea you've seen, you should find a better optometrist.
It's called "second generation" traffic calming, a combination of
traffic engineering and urban design that also draws heavily on the
fields of behavioural psychology and evolutionary biology.
One of the characteristics of a shared environment is that it appears
chaotic and demands a strong level of having your wits about you.
It is anarchy without malice.
It challenges one of the fundamental tenets of American urban
planning: that to create safe communities, you have to control them.
For the past 50 years, the American approach to traffic safety has
been dominated by the "triple E" paradigm: engineering, enforcement
and education. The history of traffic engineering is the effort to
rationalise what appeared to be chaos.
Studies of second-generation traffic calming methods have shown
encouraging reductions in the number of injury crashes, based largely
on reductions in speed and in the amount of vehicle traffic. The
Netherlands has noted an injury-crash reduction of more than 80
percent. In Germany, the number of crashes went up to some degree,
but the number of casualties decreased 30% - 56%, Great Britain, 24%
and Austria, 31%.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 02:32:46 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
wrote:
>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>knowledge. Anyone?
>
a) you must be new here - claiming such a patently ridiculous
statistic to be true without any proof is only employed by trolls and
pro-helmet zealots; and
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 20:43:24 -0800, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
: On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:22:51 -0500, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> replied
: >"Dave Reckoning" wrote:
: >
: >: The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the traffic
: >: signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!! Street
: >: markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that they can
: >: drive over anything that gets in their way.
: >
: >If that's the best idea you've seen, you should find a better optometrist.
:
: It's called "second generation" traffic calming, a combination of
: traffic engineering and urban design that also draws heavily on the
: fields of behavioural psychology and evolutionary biology.
:
: One of the characteristics of a shared environment is that it appears
: chaotic and demands a strong level of having your wits about you.
:
: It is anarchy without malice.
:
: It challenges one of the fundamental tenets of American urban
: planning: that to create safe communities, you have to control them.
Ah! I think I get it. This is the system that's now being tested in Baghdad,
right?
: For the past 50 years, the American approach to traffic safety has
: been dominated by the "triple E" paradigm: engineering, enforcement
: and education. The history of traffic engineering is the effort to
: rationalise what appeared to be chaos.
:
: Studies of second-generation traffic calming methods have shown
: encouraging reductions in the number of injury crashes, based largely
: on reductions in speed and in the amount of vehicle traffic. The
: Netherlands has noted an injury-crash reduction of more than 80
: percent. In Germany, the number of crashes went up to some degree,
: but the number of casualties decreased 30% - 56%, Great Britain, 24%
: and Austria, 31%.
:
: Do some research
Yeah, like into whether you and others proposing such madness are (or are
shilling for) personal-injury lawyers.
What does this have to do with Verizon cell phones? (Other than the obvious
fact that if this method of traffic "calming" becomes widespread, we're all
going to have to have 911 on speed dial.)
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
\On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
>to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
>http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>
>What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
>they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:40:01 -0600, Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
: In article <qkr1n21jel4mqdhu3fq8n1tl1f4blo1p5m@4ax.com>,
: carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
:
: > On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:07:36 GMT, "nash"
: > <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote:
: >
: > >Sorry that was suppose to 100/ day. no need to go postal now
: > >
: > >peace
: >
: > Dear Nash,
: >
: > Nothing postal, just basic arithmetic.
: >
: > There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
: > Chinese city."
: >
: > 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."
:
: Not to mention that there are hundreds of Chinese cities, if not
: thousands (depending on how one defines "city"). Goiing with "hundred"
: and "thousand" we get a national incidence of:
:
: 36,500 x 100 = 3,650,000 per year.
:
: 36,500 x 1,000 = 36,500,000 per year.
:
: If this was the case, then the Chinese population would be decimated
: annually by bicycling-related head injuries. I would think that such
: injury rates would provoke some sort of governmental or societal
: response to reduce the risk.
Well, "decimated" may be a bit too strong a term. It means "reduced by 90%".
The carnage you describe, even using the more lurid of your calculations,
amounts to approximately .03%. The Chinese population is pretty large.
: (misc.consumers.frugal-living snipped per Karen's request, whomever she
: may be. And since when do you need a newsgroup to talk about not buying
: crap you don't need? Frugality is hardly a difficult concept.)
Who cares? Nobody says you have to read it. Hasn't this thread wandered far
enough off-topic already?
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
Jasper Janssen wrote:
> \On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> >to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> >working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> >http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
> >
> >What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> >they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> All of the Netherlands, and no you don't.
>
> Jasper
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:03:53 -0600, Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
: In article <1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>,
: "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
: > Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
: > working for a personal-injury law firm.
:
: Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
It depends on your point of view. Is Jack Abramoff's political affiliation
relevant?
>> There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
>> Chinese city."
>>
>> 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."
>
>Not to mention that there are hundreds of Chinese cities, if not
>thousands (depending on how one defines "city"). Goiing with "hundred"
>and "thousand" we get a national incidence of:
>
>36,500 x 100 = 3,650,000 per year.
>
>36,500 x 1,000 = 36,500,000 per year.
>
>If this was the case, then the Chinese population would be decimated
>annually by bicycling-related head injuries. I would think that such
>injury rates would provoke some sort of governmental or societal
>response to reduce the risk.
FWIW, Chinese maps tend not to include any "city" with a population of
less than 1,000,000. If a map of China was produced with the same
rules as a map of the US, the eastern seaboard would be solid ink.
Having ridden in Beijing while I lived there, I can say with absolute
certainty that there ARE a fair number of cyclists injured, but the
vast majority are injured by motor vehicles (just because you're in
the separated northbound bicycle lane doesn't mean there's not a
southbound bus coming at you). The cycling speed of commuters in
China is not much above a slow jogging speed - a necessity due to the
fact that a) they don't want to arrive at work sweaty, b) the density
of the bike traffic makes it difficult to ride a lot faster than the
"typical rider" and c) a very large percentage of the bikes don't have
working brakes of any type (other than the Fred Flinstone version).
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
In article <5d43n216jpgtk227lohi9omn8kj094dufq@4ax.com>,
Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:03:53 -0600, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
> : In article <1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>,
> : "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
> :
> : > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due
> : > directly to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically
> : > is listed as working for a personal-injury law firm.
> :
> : Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>
> It depends on your point of view. Is Jack Abramoff's political
> affiliation relevant?
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
In article <9d33n29ssq8qvknkfsde1c4f1t073u134p@4ax.com>,
Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:40:01 -0600, Tim McNamara
> <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:
> : In article <qkr1n21jel4mqdhu3fq8n1tl1f4blo1p5m@4ax.com>,
> : carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> :
> : > On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:07:36 GMT, "nash"
> : > <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote:
> : >
> : > >Sorry that was suppose to 100/ day. no need to go postal now
> : > >
> : > >peace
> : >
> : > Dear Nash,
> : >
> : > Nothing postal, just basic arithmetic.
> : >
> : > There are not 100 bicyclists with head injuries every day in "any
> : > Chinese city."
> : >
> : > 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries per year in "any Chinese city."
> :
> : Not to mention that there are hundreds of Chinese cities, if not
> : thousands (depending on how one defines "city"). Goiing with
> : "hundred" and "thousand" we get a national incidence of:
> :
> : 36,500 x 100 = 3,650,000 per year.
> :
> : 36,500 x 1,000 = 36,500,000 per year.
> :
> : If this was the case, then the Chinese population would be
> : decimated annually by bicycling-related head injuries. I would
> : think that such injury rates would provoke some sort of
> : governmental or societal response to reduce the risk.
>
> Well, "decimated" may be a bit too strong a term. It means "reduced
> by 90%". The carnage you describe, even using the more lurid of your
> calculations, amounts to approximately .03%. The Chinese population
> is pretty large.
Erm, no. It means to reduce by 10% in its original usage:
"ORIGIN late Middle English : from Latin decimat- 'taken as a tenth,'
from the verb decimare, from decimus 'tenth.' In Middle English the
term decimation denoted the levying of a tithe, and later the tax
imposed in England by Cromwell on the Royalists (1655). The verb
decimate originally alluded to the Roman punishment of executing one
man in ten of a mutinous legion.
"USAGE Historically, the meaning of the word decimate is 'kill one in
every ten of (a group of people).' This sense has been superseded by
the later, more general sense 'kill or destroy a large percentage or
part of,' as in: the virus has decimated the population. Some
traditionalists argue that this and other later senses are incorrect,
but it is clear that these extended senses are now part of standard
English. It is sometimes also argued that decimate should refer to
people and not to things or animals such as weeds or insects. It is
generally agreed that decimate should not be used to mean 'defeat
utterly.'"
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
SO
<carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
news902n2dfn21sv7l4j22phjog7uos6l5dge@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:11:14 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
>>activity for the general population.
>>
>>Carl,
>>I was talking about Dave's Reckoning and comparing it to China which I
>>still
>>think is true. no laws or signs just common sense
>
> Dear Nash,
>
> To jog your memory, here's your entire post:
>
> "Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
> injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
> knowledge. Anyone?"
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
And to think if everybody did the speed limit we would not need engineers,
behavioural psychologists and evolutionary botanists.
Basically, I believe if everyone did the speed limit and followed the rules
there would be 99% less accidents except those that you caused by yourself
to yourself.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
>
>
>>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>>knowledge. Anyone?
>>
>
> a) you must be new here - claiming such a patently ridiculous
> statistic to be true without any proof is only employed by trolls and
> pro-helmet zealots; and
>
> b) "common knowledge" isn't either.
Google search 3rd entry
In Beijing, China, bicycle traffic constitutes more than 50% of passenger
transportation and more than 30% of traffic accident fatalities. Nearly 70%
of the traffic accidents were related to bicycles. The rate of fatalities
for bicyclists 60 and older is five times greater than the average. Farmers
have the greatest number of bicycle incidents. The peak hour for bicycle
accidents is usually 7:00 to 8:00 a.m., depending on the bicycle and
motorized vehicle traffic flows. Monday is the peak day for bicycle
accidents. It was also found that more bicycle accidents happened in July,
which is Beijing's tourism season. Generally speaking, roads and streets
with higher speed limits, such as arterials and rural highways, have higher
rates of bicycle accident fatalities. Bicycle accidents can be attributed to
many causes, including road and environmental conditions, traffic safety
measures, operations of motorized vehicles, and bicyclists' habits and
skills. The most pressing factor contributing to bicycle accidents is the
inadequate and insufficient facilities provided for bicyclists. To reduce
the annual toll of bicyclist injuries and fatalities, a number of
countermeasures, such as improvement of road and environmental conditions,
education in traffic laws, training in cycling, and use of helmet, are
recommended.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
>
>
>>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>>knowledge. Anyone?
>>
>
> a) you must be new here - claiming such a patently ridiculous
> statistic to be true without any proof is only employed by trolls and
> pro-helmet zealots; and
>
> b) "common knowledge" isn't either.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
>to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
>http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
Note that this took place in Illinois, which has a history of
discounting the rights of cyclists. Note that the State's Attorney in
defending her decision to not press for a more serious charge said,
"...the driver could have no reasonable expectation of a bike on the
side of the road."
If you want another prime example of Illinois' official attitude with
respect to cyclists, do a Google search for "Boub Decision".
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
In article <70d3n2hiuipfo4euupqit680iaa1noe9aj@4ax.com>,
John Everett <jeverett3@earthlink.DEFEAT.UCE.BOTS.net> wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> >to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed
> >as working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> >http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc..._is_sentenced_
> >for_bicy clists_death
>
> Note that this took place in Illinois, which has a history of
> discounting the rights of cyclists. Note that the State's Attorney in
> defending her decision to not press for a more serious charge said,
> "...the driver could have no reasonable expectation of a bike on the
> side of the road."
>
> If you want another prime example of Illinois' official attitude with
> respect to cyclists, do a Google search for "Boub Decision".
You mean the one that could be read as saying that bicyclists don't have
the right to ride on the roads?
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
The J Hopkins document shows autos caused 63% of the accidents and bicyclist
the rest.
Most were farmers on bikes
Just read it for your own sake. Ignore the helmut and environmental
conditions summary prescribed by JHopkins
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 16:43:53 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
wrote:
>SO
><carlfogel@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news902n2dfn21sv7l4j22phjog7uos6l5dge@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:11:14 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>As Frank Krygowski keeps pointing out, bicycling is a remarkably safe
>>>activity for the general population.
>>>
>>>Carl,
>>>I was talking about Dave's Reckoning and comparing it to China which I
>>>still
>>>think is true. no laws or signs just common sense
>>
>> Dear Nash,
>>
>> To jog your memory, here's your entire post:
>>
>> "Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>> injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>> knowledge. Anyone?"
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Carl Fogel
Dear Nash,
A fairly predictable descent from arrogant ignorance to silly evasions
and self-contradictions and finally to the bottom of a childish
barrel.
Amusingly, much of the audience won't even know what your "SO" meant.
Come back when you learn how to work a four-function calculator. The
illiteracy and mis-spelling are acceptable, but you really can't
expect to post numeric nonsense on a technical group without having
your errors pointed out.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 17:04:01 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net>
wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>>Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
>>>injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
>>>knowledge. Anyone?
>>>
>>
>> a) you must be new here - claiming such a patently ridiculous
>> statistic to be true without any proof is only employed by trolls and
>> pro-helmet zealots; and
>>
>> b) "common knowledge" isn't either.
>
>Google search 3rd entry
>In Beijing, China, bicycle traffic constitutes more than 50% of passenger
>transportation and more than 30% of traffic accident fatalities. Nearly 70%
>of the traffic accidents were related to bicycles. The rate of fatalities
>for bicyclists 60 and older is five times greater than the average. Farmers
>have the greatest number of bicycle incidents. The peak hour for bicycle
>accidents is usually 7:00 to 8:00 a.m., depending on the bicycle and
>motorized vehicle traffic flows. Monday is the peak day for bicycle
>accidents. It was also found that more bicycle accidents happened in July,
>which is Beijing's tourism season. Generally speaking, roads and streets
>with higher speed limits, such as arterials and rural highways, have higher
>rates of bicycle accident fatalities. Bicycle accidents can be attributed to
>many causes, including road and environmental conditions, traffic safety
>measures, operations of motorized vehicles, and bicyclists' habits and
>skills. The most pressing factor contributing to bicycle accidents is the
>inadequate and insufficient facilities provided for bicyclists. To reduce
>the annual toll of bicyclist injuries and fatalities, a number of
>countermeasures, such as improvement of road and environmental conditions,
>education in traffic laws, training in cycling, and use of helmet, are
>recommended.
>
>whole document here
>http://pubsindex.trb.org/document/vi...sp?lbid=451894
>
>50% of population ride to work in Beijing
>that enough for you citers.
>
Dear Nash,
Er, no.
No number in your citation addresses your "100's of head injuries
everyday in any Chinese city" claim. Those are all percentages of some
unknown number of accidents.
But it's good to see that you've changed your mind about citations and
started looking at reality to see if it corresponds to what you claim.
It isn't so much whether you're right or wrong about a particular
matter--it's getting into the habit of looking into things.
I'd be pleased if you find evidence that I'm mistaken in thinking that
you're off by an order of magnitude or so and that hundreds of
bicyclists suffer head injuries every day in any Chinese city.
But a quick google doesn't suggest that's the case:
"We are fortunate to have an in-depth report for China where bicycle
related deaths kill 22 per 1,000,000 per year [18]."
So in a Chinese city with a million people, there would be only 22
deaths per 365 x 100 = 36,500 head injuries. (Of course, those are 22
"bicycle-related" deaths and thus include a fair number of pedestrians
struck and killed by bicycles.)
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones
"Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com:
> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist,
> due directly to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz,
> who ironically is listed as working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...s_sentenced_fo
> r_bicyclists_death
>
> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
This particular stretch of road does have a full-width shoulder.
The area is dead flat with excellent visibility.
Which makes the driver's antics and crime all the more
questionable. Distracted driver laws are inadequate.
Re: Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones 
902n2dfn21sv7l4j22phjog7uos6l5dge@4ax.com...
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