Bicyclist killed by woman driver who was downloading cell phone ring tones

Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
working for a personal-injury law firm.

http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death

What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.

Doesn't Sweden also have miles of highway set aside for cyclists?

Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.


"nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote in message
news:101ch.403162$5R2.165149@pd7urf3no...
> Doesn't Sweden also have miles of highway set aside for cyclists?
>
>

Yarper wrote:
> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>
> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.

I don't know if I agree with your sentiment regarding separate bicycle
lanes. (Seperate) If by bicycle "lanes" you mean "paths" I'd strongly
disagree with you. Bicycle paths in the US are severely neglected.
1. Bike paths don't benefit from regular "street cleaning"
2. Bike paths generally do not present good visibility (narrow, blind
corners, etc.)
3. Bike paths are not maintained as well/often as motor roadways.
(Repaving/re-surfacing)
4. Bike paths (or bicycle riders) become ghetto-ized. "Why don't you
use the bike path!"
5. The likelihood of injuries and accidents increases because bike
paths get used by joggers, baby strollers, roller-bladers, etc., all of
which have a present a a multitude of large speed differentials
compared to bicyclists, making accidents more likely.

If anything, this case demonstrates that we need more stringent laws
and penalties regarding reckless driving. I don't know the details of
this case, but in my mind, use of a cell phone while driving in any
fashion constitutes reckless driving. I know the person wasn't charged
with reckless driving in this case, but she certainly should have been.

"Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com...
> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>
> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.

<quotes>
Stark was so far off the road that she hit Mr. Wilhelm from behind with the
driver's side of her car. He was wearing a helmet.

Stark, who had three prior convictions since May 2005 one for disregarding a
traffic light and two for speeding. The last speeding conviction came about
five weeks before she hit Mr. Wilhelm.
<end quotes>

The man on the bicycle was doing nothing wrong. if Ms Stark had not hit him,
she would have been easily off the road entirely. There is no alarm for
improving bike paths. As one of these cases even rarely happens, even rarer
with a death of the biker.

But I do not feel that an improper lane usage charge is not adequate as
there was a human life involved, which is a test for reckless operation, and
that test was met with flying colors.
I have a sneaking hunch this will not be the last time we will hear about
Ms. Stark and her cell phone.

Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.


"damyth" <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:1165010371.758011.152660@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>
> Yarper wrote:
>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
>> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>
>> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>>
>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
>> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> I don't know if I agree with your sentiment regarding separate bicycle
> lanes. (Seperate) If by bicycle "lanes" you mean "paths" I'd strongly
> disagree with you. Bicycle paths in the US are severely neglected.
> 1. Bike paths don't benefit from regular "street cleaning"
> 2. Bike paths generally do not present good visibility (narrow, blind
> corners, etc.)
> 3. Bike paths are not maintained as well/often as motor roadways.
> (Repaving/re-surfacing)
> 4. Bike paths (or bicycle riders) become ghetto-ized. "Why don't you
> use the bike path!"
> 5. The likelihood of injuries and accidents increases because bike
> paths get used by joggers, baby strollers, roller-bladers, etc., all of
> which have a present a a multitude of large speed differentials
> compared to bicyclists, making accidents more likely.
>
> If anything, this case demonstrates that we need more stringent laws
> and penalties regarding reckless driving. I don't know the details of
> this case, but in my mind, use of a cell phone while driving in any
> fashion constitutes reckless driving. I know the person wasn't charged
> with reckless driving in this case, but she certainly should have been.
>

"Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com...
> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>
> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>

Yes, yes-- and have the bike lanes lead directly to places like Amsterdam's
legal brothels and famous red light district with girls in the windows ;-)

Butch

Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.


"Butch Haynes" <butch@huntsville.prz> wrote in message
news:QM-dnVzunbxdO-3YnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com...
>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
>> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>
>> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>>
>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
>> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>
>
> Yes, yes-- and have the bike lanes lead directly to places like
> Amsterdam's legal brothels and famous red light district with girls in the
> windows ;-)
>
> Butch
>

Karen Newton wrote:
> Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.

You're right, riding a bicycle has nothing to do
with frugality. Frugal people drive SUVs.

"Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1165011538.293994.60370@f1g2000cwa.googlegrou ps.com...
>
> Karen Newton wrote:
>> Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.
>
> You're right, riding a bicycle has nothing to do
> with frugality. Frugal people drive SUVs.
>

And download ringtones on Verizon cellphones.

On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
>to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
>http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>
>What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
>they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.

What we need is to bring back the guillotine for careless,
inattentive driving causing death.

I hope this four-time loser does the right thing and commits suicide.

BTW, shove your attempt at a political troll. Every DA's hands are
tied by the systemic bias that continues to perceive driving as a god
given right and victims as expendable.
--
zk

Karen I do not see frugal living in the addresses


"Karen Newton" <karen.newton@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jE1ch.3053$Ka4.710@newsfe14.lga...
> Please don't cross-post to the frugal living group.
>
>
> "damyth" <mdk.10.damyth@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
> news:1165010371.758011.152660@79g2000cws.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> Yarper wrote:
>>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
>>> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>>
>>> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>>>
>>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
>>> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>
>> I don't know if I agree with your sentiment regarding separate bicycle
>> lanes. (Seperate) If by bicycle "lanes" you mean "paths" I'd strongly
>> disagree with you. Bicycle paths in the US are severely neglected.
>> 1. Bike paths don't benefit from regular "street cleaning"
>> 2. Bike paths generally do not present good visibility (narrow, blind
>> corners, etc.)
>> 3. Bike paths are not maintained as well/often as motor roadways.
>> (Repaving/re-surfacing)
>> 4. Bike paths (or bicycle riders) become ghetto-ized. "Why don't you
>> use the bike path!"
>> 5. The likelihood of injuries and accidents increases because bike
>> paths get used by joggers, baby strollers, roller-bladers, etc., all of
>> which have a present a a multitude of large speed differentials
>> compared to bicyclists, making accidents more likely.
>>
>> If anything, this case demonstrates that we need more stringent laws
>> and penalties regarding reckless driving. I don't know the details of
>> this case, but in my mind, use of a cell phone while driving in any
>> fashion constitutes reckless driving. I know the person wasn't charged
>> with reckless driving in this case, but she certainly should have been.
>>
>
>

nash wrote:
>
> Karen I do not see frugal living in the addresses
>
> <snip>

She removed it before posting to the above groups.

Notan

In article <QM-dnVzunbxdO-3YnZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Butch Haynes" <butch@huntsville.prz> wrote:

> "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegro ups.com...

> > What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> > they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
> >
>
> Yes, yes-- and have the bike lanes lead directly to places like Amsterdam's
> legal brothels and famous red light district with girls in the windows ;-)


nice thought.

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 14:45:01 -0800, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
: On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
:
: >Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
: >to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
: >working for a personal-injury law firm.
: >
: >http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
: >
: >What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
: >they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
:
: What we need is to bring back the guillotine for careless,
: inattentive driving causing death.
:
: I hope this four-time loser does the right thing and commits suicide.
:
: BTW, shove your attempt at a political troll. Every DA's hands are
: tied by the systemic bias that continues to perceive driving as a god
: given right and victims as expendable.

Driving *is* a god given right, but those who do it so dangerously should be
dealt with harshly. So I both agree with you and think you're full of sh*t.

Robert Coe wrote:
>
> On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 14:45:01 -0800, Zoot Katz <zootkatz@operamail.com> wrote:
> : On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
> :
> : >Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> : >to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> : >working for a personal-injury law firm.
> : >
> : >http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
> : >
> : >What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> : >they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
> :
> : What we need is to bring back the guillotine for careless,
> : inattentive driving causing death.
> :
> : I hope this four-time loser does the right thing and commits suicide.
> :
> : BTW, shove your attempt at a political troll. Every DA's hands are
> : tied by the systemic bias that continues to perceive driving as a god
> : given right and victims as expendable.
>
> Driving *is* a god given right, but those who do it so dangerously should be
> dealt with harshly. So I both agree with you and think you're full of sh*t.

http://lexrex.com/informed/foundingd...bill_of_rights

I must've missed the one on driving.

Notan

Driving *is* a god given right, but those who do it so dangerously should
be
> dealt with harshly. So I both agree with you and think you're full of
> sh*t.<<

No, You are wrong, it is a privilege. Ask any auto insurance agent or
police person. Rules are there to protect the innocent and everyones
safety. They were not made for hotshot drivers who think they know better.
They are for everyone with generally accepted driving skill.

On Fri, 01 Dec 2006 18:58:23 -0500, Robert Coe <bob@1776.COM> wrote:
>
>:
>: BTW, shove your attempt at a political troll. Every DA's hands are
>: tied by the systemic bias that continues to perceive driving as a god
>: given right and victims as expendable.
>
>Driving *is* a god given right, but those who do it so dangerously should be
>dealt with harshly. So I both agree with you and think you're full of sh*t.

Driving is a "privilege". Were it a "right" a driver's license
couldn't be suspended or revoked.

Unfortunately, that option isn't exercised nearly enough when dealing
with repeat offenders who's cars should be shredded with them in it.
--
zk

In article <1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>,
"Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> working for a personal-injury law firm.

Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?

> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.

What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.

richard wrote:

>
> But I do not feel that an improper lane usage charge is not adequate as
> there was a human life involved, which is a test for reckless operation,
> and that test was met with flying colors.
> I have a sneaking hunch this will not be the last time we will hear
> about Ms. Stark and her cell phone.
>
>

Actually Ms. Stark should be prohibited from owning/using a cell phone
for the rest of her life!

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:29:30 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote:
: Driving *is* a god given right, but those who do it so dangerously should
: be
: > dealt with harshly. So I both agree with you and think you're full of
: > sh*t.<<
:
: No, You are wrong, it is a privilege. Ask any auto insurance agent or
: police person. Rules are there to protect the innocent and everyones
: safety. They were not made for hotshot drivers who think they know better.
: They are for everyone with generally accepted driving skill.

The US constitution and the laws implementing it were not written by auto
insurance agents and police persons.

Governments restrict rights. (One hopes they do it only when, and to the
degree, necessary.) They have no "privileges" to grant.

Yarper wrote:
> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
>
> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.

What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin around
with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity.

val189 wrote:
> Yarper wrote:
> > Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> > to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> > working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> > http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
> >
> > What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> > they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
> happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
> any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
> Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin around
> with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity.

"Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity."

ever hear of driving a car with a standard (non-automatic)
transmission?

-bdbafh

>>>The US constitution and the laws implementing it were not written by auto
insurance agents and police persons.
<<<

The US constitution does not say you have a right to drive either.

On 1 Dec 2006 17:15:29 -0800, "val189" <gwehrenb@bellsouth.net>
wrote:

>What we REALLY need are some heavy duty sentences for this type of
>happening. I can't wait for the day they outlaw cell phone usage of
>any kind while driving and some stiff penalties for noncompliance.
>Almost got creamed today in a parking lot by two drivers screwin around
>with their cellphones. Two hands on the wheel is becoming a rarity.

What we need are more phone booths so all these poor people aren't
forced into their cars to make a call.
--
zk

On Sat, 02 Dec 2006 01:35:36 GMT, "nash" <zwepytzkehillc9@jetable.net> wrote:
: >>>The US constitution and the laws implementing it were not written by auto
: insurance agents and police persons.
: <<<

"nash" did not write that. I did.

: The US constitution does not say you have a right to drive either.

The Constitution does not enumerate the rights you have. It enumerates the
rights you *don't* have.

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-E892C9.19035301122006@news.iphouse.com...
> In article <1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>,
> "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>
> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>
>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.

This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make the
drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because they are
off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have to cross
those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes the drivers
don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway. The worst of
them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also this gives the
car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them alone. Then theye
make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst possible place and put
the bikes in the position of having to enter the private domain of the cars
with every crossing of a side street.

The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the traffic
signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!! Street
markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that they can
drive over anything that gets in their way.

Dave Reckoning

Noblesville, Indiana

Zoot Katz wrote:
> On 1 Dec 2006 12:55:12 -0800, "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly
> >to Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
> >working for a personal-injury law firm.
> >
> >http://www.news-gazette.com/news/loc...cyclists_death
> >
> >What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like
> >they have throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>
> What we need is to bring back the guillotine for careless,
> inattentive driving causing death.
>
> I hope this four-time loser does the right thing and commits suicide.
>
> BTW, shove your attempt at a political troll. Every DA's hands are
> tied by the systemic bias that continues to perceive driving as a god
> given right and victims as expendable.
> --
> zk

That apparently doesn't apply to running over motorcyclists:

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/06334/742434-54.stm

"John Cartwright, 54, is charged with vehicular homicide, three counts
of aggravated assault, three counts of recklessly endangering another
person and traffic violations."

How could the driver not be charged with at least aggravated assault?
IANAL, but IMHO she most certainly should have been charged with
vehiclar homicide.

-bdbafh

"Dave Reckoning" <Dave_Reckoning@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:qJqdnVlWYJWBQO3YnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.co m...
> "Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> news:timmcn-E892C9.19035301122006@news.iphouse.com...
>> In article <1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>,
>> "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>
>> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>>
>>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>
>> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
>> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
>> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.
>
> This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make
> the drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because
> they are off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have
> to cross those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes
> the drivers don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway.
> The worst of them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also
> this gives the car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them
> alone. Then theye make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst
> possible place and put the bikes in the position of having to enter the
> private domain of the cars with every crossing of a side street.
>
> The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the
> traffic signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!!
> Street markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that
> they can drive over anything that gets in their way.
>
> Dave Reckoning
>
> Noblesville, Indiana
Sure Dave and that is why any Chinese city has 100's of cyclist head
injuries everyday of the year. Do not citation me I know it as common
knowledge. Anyone?

Sorry Karen forgot

"Dave Reckoning" <Dave_Reckoning@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:qJqdnVlWYJWBQO3YnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@insightbb.co m...
> "Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> news:timmcn-E892C9.19035301122006@news.iphouse.com...
>> In article <1165006512.331700.178580@80g2000cwy.googlegroups. com>,
>> "Yarper" <yubbers9@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Clear and obvious guilt. Result? A slap on the wrist, due directly to
>>> Democratic State Attorney Julia Reitz, who ironically is listed as
>>> working for a personal-injury law firm.
>>
>> Is her political affiliation somehow relevant?
>>
>>> What we need in the USA is separate bicycle lanes, like they have
>>> throughout Denmark and parts of Holland.
>>
>> What Denmark and Holland have is a population that uses bikes in large
>> numbers. That's what makes the difference. Separate bikes lanes are
>> frequently more dangerous than riding on the roads.
>
> This is definatly the case. Bike lanes are the MOST dangerous. They make
> the drivers think that they don't have to worry about the bikes because
> they are off in their seperate lanes. The problem is that the drivers have
> to cross those lanes to make turns and enter the street. Alas, sometimes
> the drivers don't stay in their own lanes and drive over the bikes anyway.
> The worst of them are the ones that are seperate sidewalk affairs. Also
> this gives the car drivers the illusion that the street belongs to them
> alone. Then theye make the bikes cross all of the streets at the worst
> possible place and put the bikes in the position of having to enter the
> private domain of the cars with every crossing of a side street.
>
> The best idea I have seen is counter-intuitive, take down all of the
> traffic signs and street marking and make people rely on common sense!!!
> Street markings and bike lanes just give the cars the false sense that
> they can drive over anything that gets in their way.
>
> Dave Reckoning
>
> Noblesville, Indiana
>