Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes. Discuss Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes, on Wireless Forums.
Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
T-Mobile G1 Net Access Can't Be Turned Off, Results in Huge Roaming
Costs [T-mobile G1]
from Gizmodo by Sean Fallon
According to our tipster, taking your G1 abroad may not be financially
wise. Apparently, his data roaming bill rang up at $102.85—even though
data roaming, data sync and 3G were turned off.
How could this happen you ask? Well, after returning home from the UK,
he called T-Mobile customer service to discuss his bill. After a
lengthy series of conversations, a supervisor revealed that the G1
always accesses the internet whether you are sending text messages or
calls—even when the data roaming features are off. In the end, his
advice was that "the phone should have been left in the USA to avoid
these charges."
Naturally, there was no mention of this when he made his initial call
to T-Mobile before his trip to get international calling and text
added. All they said was data roaming would be charged at $10 per MB
and that if he did not access the internet everything would be fine.
As it turns out, he was charged approx $.15 every 3-7 minutes on
average—but not all of it was from calls and texts. In his words, it
was "almost as if the phone is pinging."
In a situation like this I am compelled to ask whether or not any of
you have experienced similar issues with the G1. Could it really be
accessing the internet this much? [Thanks James!]
More Android - T-Mobile Monthly Soft Data Caps Will Return?
On Dec 2, 3:54*pm, 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> T-Mobile G1 Net Access Can't Be Turned Off, Results in Huge Roaming
> Costs [T-mobile G1]
> from Gizmodo by Sean Fallon
>
> According to our tipster, taking your G1 abroad may not be financially
> wise. Apparently, his data roaming bill rang up at $102.85—even though
> data roaming, data sync and 3G were turned off.
>
> How could this happen you ask? Well, after returning home from the UK,
> he called T-Mobile customer service to discuss his bill. After a
> lengthy series of conversations, a supervisor revealed that the G1
> always accesses the internet whether you are sending text messages or
> calls—even when the data roaming features are off. In the end, his
> advice was that "the phone should have been left in the USA to avoid
> these charges."
>
> Naturally, there was no mention of this when he made his initial call
> to T-Mobile before his trip to get international calling and text
> added. All they said was data roaming would be charged at $10 per MB
> and that if he did not access the internet everything would be fine.
> As it turns out, he was charged approx $.15 every 3-7 minutes on
> average—but not all of it was from calls and texts. In his words, it
> was "almost as if the phone is pinging."
>
> In a situation like this I am compelled to ask whether or not any of
> you have experienced similar issues with the G1. Could it really be
> accessing the internet this much? [Thanks James!]
T-Mobile Monthly Soft Data Caps Will Return [Unconfirmed]
from Gizmodo by matt buchanan
When the G1 launched, there was an uproar over T-Mobile's 1GB-a-month
soft data cap that would slow your connection down to a 50kbps
trickle, and they backpedaled. Guess what? The cap's coming back.
The good: The new cap is 10GB, a fairly reasonably amount for mobile
data (really, that's like over 300MB a day). After you hit 10GB, your
connection will be throttled down to 50kbps, just like T-Mobile's
original cap plan. The bad: It will cover every phone, including the
SideKick. Worse for SideKick users, their monthly data is going up to
match the G1's. The supposed T-Mobile employee revealing this info
also mentions "$34.99 for all you can eat (cough 10GB cap)" though
it's not quite clear what he's referring to specifically.
Really, G1 users are most likely to be affected, since it's the only
phone T-Mobile's got conducive to really moving that kind of data. How
much data are you guys using a month on average, anyway? [Android
Community Forums via Android Community]
--
So lets hear it for all those geeks who appear to have ruined the T-
Mobile 3G service by tethering their Gphone to a laptop and who were
downloading torrents. Go to Verizon and try that, they might not
notice.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
4phun wrote:
> T-Mobile G1 Net Access Can't Be Turned Off, Results in Huge Roaming
> Costs [T-mobile G1]
> from Gizmodo by Sean Fallon
>
> According to our tipster, taking your G1 abroad may not be financially
> wise. Apparently, his data roaming bill rang up at $102.85—even though
> data roaming, data sync and 3G were turned off.
Re: More Android - T-Mobile Monthly Soft Data Caps Will Return?
At 03 Dec 2008 01:22:35 +0000 Larry wrote:
> > After you hit 10GB, your
> > connection will be throttled down to 50kbps,
>
> WiMax...WiMax...WiMax...packet based...unlimited...high bandwidth...
>
> $39/mo. No ******** hobbling.
>
> Easy....wait.....wait for it.....it's coming....
> Then sellphone can.........can..........****off!
Surrre.
You've failed to explain how WiMax can provide all this unlimited bandwidth
when it's subject to the same laws of physics as cellular.
Yes, it's a bit more spectrally efficient, but it's primary bandwidth
advantage at the moment is that no one's using it yet. Just wait until it
hits critical mass (which won't take long if they attract all of the high-
bandwidth "abusers" the cell companies are discouraging!) and they
implement a "fair use policy" just like everyone else!
Even some cable and DSL companies (who have a lot more bandwidth to play
with!) are experimenting with data caps. Don't think for a minute that
WiMax will avoid them forever!
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
At 02 Dec 2008 20:05:59 -0500 News wrote:
> 4phun wrote:
> > T-Mobile G1 Net Access Can't Be Turned Off, Results in Huge Roaming
> > Costs [T-mobile G1]
> > from Gizmodo by Sean Fallon
> >
> > According to our tipster, taking your G1 abroad may not be financially
> > wise. Apparently, his data roaming bill rang up at $102.85—even though
> > data roaming, data sync and 3G were turned off.
>
>
>
> <yawn>
>
> Same complaints surfaced about the iTrash....
Yeah, but to be fair, in the case of the iPhone stories, the user left data
on, ignorant to the ways (and costs) of data roaming.
In this case, if the story is true, it seems that the G1 "phones home" to
Mother Google regularly even if you switch all data off.
Re: More Android - T-Mobile Monthly Soft Data Caps Will Return?
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in
news:gh59du$ftq$1@aioe.org:
> You've failed to explain how WiMax can provide all this unlimited
> bandwidth when it's subject to the same laws of physics as cellular.
>
>
I don't know. I don't CARE. All I know is everyone I talked to that has
it, loves it! No more PPP connections that dump you every 15 seconds. No
more 1200 ms end-of-line sellphone latency. VoIP works fantastic over it
with no discernable delay. No more cluged up non-packet delivery with all
that conversion-timing nonsense we've put up with for years.
BRING IT ON! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
On the downside, I'm SURE, absolutely SURE, the sellphone beancounters will
come in and **** it all up. Sad, but very true.....
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in news:gh59tj$iec$1
@aioe.org:
> In this case, if the story is true, it seems that the G1 "phones home" to
> Mother Google regularly even if you switch all data off.
>
>
Google, since it inception, has made its money collecting data on everyone
who uses it and sells that information to its vast advertiser base. Now,
their phone, I'd bet, is doing the exact same thing, feeding Mother Google
ad-related data to continue that business model that's been so successful.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B6956460BBFAnoonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
>> In this case, if the story is true, it seems that the G1 "phones home" to
>> Mother Google regularly even if you switch all data off.
>>
>>
>
> Google, since it inception, has made its money collecting data on everyone
> who uses it and sells that information to its vast advertiser base. Now,
> their phone, I'd bet, is doing the exact same thing, feeding Mother Google
> ad-related data to continue that business model that's been so successful.
>
> That would be logical....right?
Perhaps. I assume it's just sloppy programming that forgot to make the
push-GMail/Google Calendar "heartbeat" signal obey the user settings. What
"valuable" info could Google collect on a guy NOT using his phone. "Now
he's at Buckingham Palace... not making calls, not going on line.. Now he's
at Trafalgar Square... not making calls, not going on line..."
The guy referenced in the original post racked up a whopping $100 in roaming
charges- not the thousands the horrified iPhoners (who left automatic email
retrieval on) on the cruise ship racked up in last year's similar story. At
T-Mo's $16/MB roaming rate, the phone only had to use 6MB of data in
who-knows-how-long a trip to rack up $100 roaming. I haven't used Android,
but Microsoft warns us that push email using Exchange on a Windows Mobile
device can use up to 12MB a month in connection overhead, so if Android is
similar, 6MB could have been the GMail push for two weeks, (or this case,
seeing it was a UK trip, "a fortnight.") ;-)
As a practical matter, I wonder if you can trick the phone into a complete
data shutdown by entering incorrect data settings. When I travel overseas,
I often enter a bogus APN into my WinMo phone's cellular settings instead of
T-Mo's "real" settings, just as a failsafe in case I forgot to shutoff data
completely. That might work on a G1 if T-Mo hasn't locked down the ability
to edit the APN (like they do on some "dumbphones"), or if the G1's push
settings aren't somehow hardcoded to always use T-Mo's network regardless of
any user settings.
Re: More Android - T-Mobile Monthly Soft Data Caps Will Return?
DUN with my LG Dare with VZW
$15/month for unlimited
Does not dump me every 15 seconds (I can stay connected as long as I need
too, highest I have been connected so far is 3 hours before I was done using
it)
Latency is around 80ms
Works with VOIP
"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B6955BC47C87noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
> Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in
> news:gh59du$ftq$1@aioe.org:
>
>> You've failed to explain how WiMax can provide all this unlimited
>> bandwidth when it's subject to the same laws of physics as cellular.
>>
>>
>
> I don't know. I don't CARE. All I know is everyone I talked to that has
> it, loves it! No more PPP connections that dump you every 15 seconds. No
> more 1200 ms end-of-line sellphone latency. VoIP works fantastic over it
> with no discernable delay. No more cluged up non-packet delivery with all
> that conversion-timing nonsense we've put up with for years.
>
> BRING IT ON! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
>
> On the downside, I'm SURE, absolutely SURE, the sellphone beancounters
> will
> come in and **** it all up. Sad, but very true.....
>
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
Bert Hyman wrote:
> In news:gh68hj$j5s$1@aioe.org "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> What "valuable" info could Google collect on a guy NOT using his
>> phone.
>
>
> They know he's a international traveller, and they know where he
> travels.
>
And that (he thinks) he's not stupid enough to fire up his phone and
rack up rapacious data charges.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
news:P8qdnRN86ZhcNqvUnZ2dnUVZ_sLinZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> What "valuable" info could Google collect on a guy NOT using his
>>> phone.
>>
>>
>> They know he's a international traveller, and they know where he
>> travels.
>
>
> And that (he thinks) he's not stupid enough to fire up his phone and rack
> up rapacious data charges.
Fair enough (to both of you!) However, I'd still file this under "Android,
like virtually all Google services, is still in beta" rather than "Google is
out to take over the World one piece of consumer data at a time."
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"K J" <kj@killjoy.invalid> wrote in message
news:gh7dj1$fc9$1@news.motzarella.org...
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>> No more so than the iPhone, which operates THE SAME WAY.
>
> So how would this work out in Europe with a local SIM card in G1 or
> iPhone?
You'd just get connection errors unless you set the correct data settings
for the local provider. The problem being discussed here, is that the G1
seems to connect to Google through T-Mobile USA's data settings periodically
even if the user turns cellular data off. This may be why T-Mobile REQUIRES
an unlimited data plan on every G1- to support whatever functionality this
connecting does (probably "push" GMail and updating of Google Calendar,)
like AT&T requires a data plan for iPhones to support its
required-connectivity functionality (mostly Visual Voicemail.)
It all just makes me glad to own a nice unlocked WinMobile smartphone that
_I'm_ in control of, rather than my cellular provider! ;-)
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
> You'd just get connection errors unless you set the correct data
> settings for the local provider. The problem being discussed here, is
> that the G1 seems to connect to Google through T-Mobile USA's data
> settings periodically even if the user turns cellular data off. This
> may be why T-Mobile REQUIRES an unlimited data plan on every G1- to
> support whatever functionality this connecting does (probably "push"
> GMail and updating of Google Calendar,) like AT&T requires a data plan
> for iPhones to support its required-connectivity functionality (mostly
> Visual Voicemail.)
This is enough for me to back off my plan to get G1.
> It all just makes me glad to own a nice unlocked WinMobile smartphone
> that _I'm_ in control of, rather than my cellular provider! ;-)
May I ask which model you have and whether it also can use WiFi
connection?
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
At 04 Dec 2008 12:40:16 -0800 K J wrote:
> > It all just makes me glad to own a nice unlocked WinMobile
> > smartphone that _I'm_ in control of, rather than my cellular
> > provider! ;-)
>
> May I ask which model you have and whether it also can use WiFi
> connection?
Sure, I own an unlocked AT&T Tilt that I use on T-Mobile. It has WiFi.
There's no special reason I use a Tilt, other than it was the cheapest unit
that met my requirments: WinMo 6 Pro (touchscreen), WiFi, at least 128MB RAM,
GPS, and an external memory card slot.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
> Sure, I own an unlocked AT&T Tilt that I use on T-Mobile. It has
> WiFi.
> There's no special reason I use a Tilt, other than it was the cheapest
> unit
> that met my requirments: WinMo 6 Pro (touchscreen), WiFi, at least
> 128MB RAM,
> GPS, and an external memory card slot.
Sounds great. I am looking for a phone whose OS has a version of Skype
that I could use over the WiFi connection and also it would have the
necessary codecs to view streaming video from my home IP webcam.
Conducting secure (https) transactions would also be desirable. I assume
WinMobile OS might be closest to deliver on these things. Am I way off?
Re: More Android - T-Mobile Monthly Soft Data Caps Will Return?
"Jon" <Jon@cebridge.net> wrote in
news:aSxZk.25195$Jl5.4097@newsfe19.iad:
> DUN with my LG Dare with VZW
> $15/month for unlimited
> Does not dump me every 15 seconds (I can stay connected as long as I
> need too, highest I have been connected so far is 3 hours before I was
> done using it)
> Latency is around 80ms
> Works with VOIP
>
>
Jon, let's test it and post what you see for us:
Go here with your PHONE browser on the phone network, not wifi: http://monitor.usenetserver.com/cgi-bin/trace.pl
UNS will simply do a traceroute back TO you giving you your ping times
along the route.
Now, copy and paste it into an email message and mail it to your desktop
you use for this usenet message. Copy it from there and paste it into a
reply to this message. I did the same from my N800 Linux tablet.
Here's my results on Alltel EVDO (Windstream) at 20:20 during primetime.
98.104.177.21
1 ge2-1.core2.usenetserver.com (208.49.83.45) 0.396 ms 0.204 ms
0.237
ms 2 TenGigabitEthernet3-3.ar5.ATL1.gblx.net (67.17.197.165) 0.347 ms
0.374 ms 0.490 ms 3 64.213.176.46 (64.213.176.46) 5.746 ms 5.625 ms
5.988 ms 4 * * * 5 75.116.241.36 (75.116.241.36) 29.250 ms 29.474
ms
29.723 ms 6 98.104.177.21 (98.104.177.21) 28.845 ms 27.859 ms
28.600
ms 7 98.104.177.21 (98.104.177.21) 680.419 ms 732.003 ms 747.315 ms
98.104.177.21 was my IP when I was connected to Alltel through my Z6m's
DUN. I have an applet on the tablet that confirms that.
It was about 28ms from UNS' server farm to Alltel/Windstream's
98.104.177.21, I suppose that feeds Charleston's EVDO. Now, look
closely at step 7. 680ms, 732ms, 747ms are the ping times to the PHONE
over EVDO on that last step. Sometimes I've seen it as high as 2
seconds during the business day when the phone system was really busy!
This is CRAZY! It's worse than my old dial up modem was back in the
80's! This latency is the reason high bandwidth video STREAMING balks
and squawks and locks. Radio streaming seems to tolerate it, as does
Skype, which will have a much worse delay than on wifi or Ethernet
direct, but is still usable. Skype PINGS for this figure and adjusts
the system accordingly. It's very tolerant of such nonsense if you can
get 110Kbps for the audio. I also ran the flash speedtest from my cable
ip: http://speedtest.knology.net/ on the Alltel DUN connection and I'm
only getting about 788Kbps down and 99Kbps up speeds at the moment.
That value is quite low. There must be a lot of phone calls on the
system at 8:30PM 12/4/08 at this moment. It's usually 900-1100Kbps.
(WARNING - iPhone users don't try this at home. It requires cut and
paste and a Flash-enabled browser you don't have. Storm users can't run
the Flash speedtest, either.)
Wimax solves BOTH these kluged up sellphone system related maladies.
Wimax at my buddy's house in Bahrain runs over 9Mbps. On the road, he's
only getting about 5Mbps. Pingtimes are only slightly higher than on a
cable modem, far below the 100ms level. Throughput is simply amazing.
Sellphone systems were not designed for PACKET data service, TCP/IP.
They are VOICE data systems forced into Packet service by various kluged
up schemes and run like PPP over a DSL line. Wimax, on the other hand,
like WiFi, was DESIGNED for PACKET data service. It's phone side uses
packet transmissions much like Skype does over the net. It was designed
to deliver packet data transmissions....much better.
I'd like to know, from our resident experts, how well LTE, the next-
generation kluged up packet converter, is going to work, what its
latency will be and how slow its throughput. LTE is supposed to be the
savior of sellular from the Wimax threat....besides ATT lawyers, that
is.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"K J" <kj@killjoy.invalid> wrote in news:gh9no6$rgu$1
@news.motzarella.org:
> Sounds great. I am looking for a phone whose OS has a version of Skype
> that I could use over the WiFi connection and also it would have the
> necessary codecs to view streaming video from my home IP webcam.
> Conducting secure (https) transactions would also be desirable. I
assume
> WinMobile OS might be closest to deliver on these things. Am I way
off?
>
> KJ
>
>
>
The Nokia N800 is the same computer running the same OS and can be had
much cheaper on Ebay if price is a problem. It uses two SDHC cards, up
to 32GB each, has front-mounted speakers and I like it better....no
keyboard. Don't be intimidated by its Linux base. It's easier to use
than WinXP. I have an old Navy chief who's now a total addict and he
can hardly get Internet Explorer to run on his desktop.
The excellent user/maemo community support is on: http://www.internettablettalk.com/
with a complete tablet school, forums and all the latest info, including
help with the bleeding edge of Maemo OS software.
Software is free and open source community based: http://www.maemo.org/
it is heavily supported by the Nokia development staff and hundreds of
the best Linux programmers across the planet. The pocketables.net
review was not connected to the extensive community that has built up
around these devices. Here's the current long list of totally free
software you can simply install on it with the click of your stylus: http://maemo.org/downloads/updated/OS2008/300/
New software and the last-updated software show up on top of this list.
Skype has a special version installed with the Operating System, Maemo
OS2008 Diablo, soon to be automatically replaced with a newer, fancier
OS in a month or two. All software upgrades, Operating System upgrades
are absolutely free. There is no sellphone company connections, so
there is no programming funny business. Open source developers try to
outdo each other to see who can cram the most and best into this tiny
box...without regard to corporate profits, bandwidth usage, etc.
The list of codecs it plays out of the box is long, but there is a port
of Linux's best audio/video media engine, Mplayer, everyone installs
that supports most all the rest. All common media, like DivX,
RealMedia, Flash 9 embedded in the Mozilla browser, FLAC, all the
various MPx, AVI, etc, are fully playable in Mplayer. There are several
front ends for the mplayer engine, from a simply file/url lister that
installs with mplayer, to the amazing Canola 2 CPU-hogging media monster
from Brazil to choose from. Some specialize in graphics, others are
more simple/fast/quick. KMPlayer has another embedded app/playlist
supported by its own community called WorldTV99. Being an app, it
automatically updates itself, which updates a list of a few hundred TV
stations across the planet it plays at a click...no spam, no funny
business. Linux's Streamtuner is ported with thousands of Icecast and
Shoutcast stations and has its own Bookmark system for your favs. Last
FM has a nice app called Vagalume with album cover and Last.FM controls.
The browser is from Mozilla. HTTPS is fully supported. You may also
choose to download a new special Firefox 3, currently in Beta. This
mobile browser uses the Maemo tablets as the test bed for both a complex
and very simply browser interface for Firefox3.
NOTE - The tablet is fully multitasking Linux. You can watch your
security webcam while doing other things, unlike phones that only run
one program at a time (iPhone comes to mind). This is a tiny computer,
not a phone.
There are many virtual game emulators and virtual machines. Access, in
Japan, the new owners of the Palm OS, have a full Palm OS Virtual
Machine for the tablet, currently free for the signup. This VM runs all
the Palm Pilot software, most recently now in portrait/full screen mode.
All your Palm software runs on it. It also syncs with Palm Desktop via
your wifi/Ethernet connection. I'm not much of a "gamer", being an old
fart with slow reaction times. I'll just warn you not to get hooked on
Numpty Physics, which on the Maemo tablets has its own user deviants
creating very deceitful physics problems that can simply consume you.
Its games have their own website and, of course, download themselves
right into the game itself at a click...destroying you until you figure
them out...dammit.
The N810 has a little webcam that does pictures and movies but is not a
bigshot camera. UNfortunately, Skype has never taken advantage of the
cam to put Skype video on the tablet, probably due to bandwidth concerns
over the tablet's extensive Bluetooth offering. The tablet easily uses
Bluetooth DUN to connect to the internet over your BT DUN-enabled
smartphone or simple sellphone. My phonemodem is a MotoROKR Z6m on
Alltel. Because the tablet is out of the CLUTCHES of the bureaucrats at
any sellphone company, they cannot tinker and tamper and HOBBLE the
tablet's great functions, like STREAMING YOUR WEBCAM, which most
sellphones simply won't do, on purpose, to save the sellphone company
money. The phones are hobbled....the tablets are not.
N810 has a full 20-channel WAAS-compensated GPS receiver with an
amazingly sensitive chipset like the finest marine GPS units. No
sellphone-hobbled tower-based GPS fix. N810 puts you right on the BENCH
END you're sitting on from Google or Virtual Earth. N810 comes with
Wayfinder commercial street software (the review was written before
Nokia simply swallowed Wayfinder's company). Wayfinder works just like
the $800 car GPS talking you through your trip in several voices you
choose. Included is the complete, up-to-date, street maps for the
entire USA/Alaska/Hawaii/PR. The hackers didn't like it, of course, so
an entire community of geocachers decended upon the tablet and wrote
several open source GPS-based programs for it. The most used is called
"Maemo Mapper", which has a life all its own. Maemo mapper can be
pointed at any Google-style tile server on the net, through the mobile
sellphone DUN link for realtime map tile downloading....or using stored
maps on its extensive mini or micro SD memory card offline. Tiles are
available from Open Street Maps, Google Earth, Virtual Earth, Runway
finder for real aeronautical US charts, Terraserver for terrain maps
(mountainclimber/backpacker?), a huge list of places to get tiles. New
apps for GPS are a GPS-based photo for the camera, which will put GPS
location on every picture you take with it and interface that with
Google Earth on your desktop at home. The glider pilots wrote a
complete aeronautical navigation system (it's on the list) for air
navigation. The Geocaching people have a system. Backpackers wanted to
be able to put their own maps on a GPS-based charting program, so
invented one you calibrate a jpg picture of the map to 2 or 3 points
(lat/long) and the GPS puts mark and trail on ANY picture of any map.
It goes on and on.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
At 04 Dec 2008 15:06:31 -0800 K J wrote:
> > I own an unlocked AT&T Tilt that I use on T-Mobile. It has WiFi.
> > There's no special reason I use a Tilt, other than it was the cheapest
unit
> > that met my requirments: WinMo 6 Pro (touchscreen), WiFi, at least
128MB RAM,
> > GPS, and an external memory card slot.
>
> Sounds great. I am looking for a phone whose OS has a version of
> Skype that I could use over the WiFi connection and also it would
> have the necessary codecs to view streaming video from my home
> IP webcam.
Skype's no problem- the WinMo version works quite well, and the webcam
should be ok if you stick to .wmv, otherwise you'd probably need a 3rd
party app- I'd try it first before committing. (I'd be happy to try if you
want to email me and setup a temp throwaway password for me to use- I have
several third party browsers and media players installed and could tell you
which, if any, worked. Remove "no" and "spam" from my email address if you
want to try it.)
> Conducting secure (https) transactions would also be desirable.
> I assume WinMobile OS might be closest to deliver on these things.
>Am I way off?
WinMo seems to have the largest available base of 3rd party apps (not
counting iPhone flashlight apps, perhaps) ;-) so if doesn't do what you
need out of the box, more than likely there's an app out there to get it
to.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote:
> You don't need a phone:
> http://www.pocketables.net/2008/02/review-nokia-n8.html
>
> The Nokia N800 is the same computer running the same OS and can be had
> much cheaper on Ebay if price is a problem. It uses two SDHC cards,
> up
> to 32GB each, has front-mounted speakers and I like it better....no
> keyboard. Don't be intimidated by its Linux base. It's easier to use
> than WinXP. I have an old Navy chief who's now a total addict and he
> can hardly get Internet Explorer to run on his desktop.
>
> The excellent user/maemo community support is on:
> http://www.internettablettalk.com/
> with a complete tablet school, forums and all the latest info,
> including
> help with the bleeding edge of Maemo OS software.
>
> Software is free and open source community based:
> http://www.maemo.org/
> it is heavily supported by the Nokia development staff and hundreds of
> the best Linux programmers across the planet. The pocketables.net
> review was not connected to the extensive community that has built up
> around these devices. Here's the current long list of totally free
> software you can simply install on it with the click of your stylus:
> http://maemo.org/downloads/updated/OS2008/300/
> New software and the last-updated software show up on top of this
> list.
>
> Skype has a special version installed with the Operating System, Maemo
> OS2008 Diablo, soon to be automatically replaced with a newer, fancier
> OS in a month or two. All software upgrades, Operating System
> upgrades
> are absolutely free. There is no sellphone company connections, so
> there is no programming funny business. Open source developers try to
> outdo each other to see who can cram the most and best into this tiny
> box...without regard to corporate profits, bandwidth usage, etc.
>
> The list of codecs it plays out of the box is long, but there is a
> port
> of Linux's best audio/video media engine, Mplayer, everyone installs
> that supports most all the rest. All common media, like DivX,
> RealMedia, Flash 9 embedded in the Mozilla browser, FLAC, all the
> various MPx, AVI, etc, are fully playable in Mplayer. There are
> several
> front ends for the mplayer engine, from a simply file/url lister that
> installs with mplayer, to the amazing Canola 2 CPU-hogging media
> monster
> from Brazil to choose from. Some specialize in graphics, others are
> more simple/fast/quick. KMPlayer has another embedded app/playlist
> supported by its own community called WorldTV99. Being an app, it
> automatically updates itself, which updates a list of a few hundred TV
> stations across the planet it plays at a click...no spam, no funny
> business. Linux's Streamtuner is ported with thousands of Icecast and
> Shoutcast stations and has its own Bookmark system for your favs.
> Last
> FM has a nice app called Vagalume with album cover and Last.FM
> controls.
>
> The browser is from Mozilla. HTTPS is fully supported. You may also
> choose to download a new special Firefox 3, currently in Beta. This
> mobile browser uses the Maemo tablets as the test bed for both a
> complex
> and very simply browser interface for Firefox3.
>
> NOTE - The tablet is fully multitasking Linux. You can watch your
> security webcam while doing other things, unlike phones that only run
> one program at a time (iPhone comes to mind). This is a tiny
> computer,
> not a phone.
>
> There are many virtual game emulators and virtual machines. Access,
> in
> Japan, the new owners of the Palm OS, have a full Palm OS Virtual
> Machine for the tablet, currently free for the signup. This VM runs
> all
> the Palm Pilot software, most recently now in portrait/full screen
> mode.
> All your Palm software runs on it. It also syncs with Palm Desktop
> via
> your wifi/Ethernet connection. I'm not much of a "gamer", being an
> old
> fart with slow reaction times. I'll just warn you not to get hooked
> on
> Numpty Physics, which on the Maemo tablets has its own user deviants
> creating very deceitful physics problems that can simply consume you.
> Its games have their own website and, of course, download themselves
> right into the game itself at a click...destroying you until you
> figure
> them out...dammit.
>
> The N810 has a little webcam that does pictures and movies but is not
> a
> bigshot camera. UNfortunately, Skype has never taken advantage of the
> cam to put Skype video on the tablet, probably due to bandwidth
> concerns
> over the tablet's extensive Bluetooth offering. The tablet easily
> uses
> Bluetooth DUN to connect to the internet over your BT DUN-enabled
> smartphone or simple sellphone. My phonemodem is a MotoROKR Z6m on
> Alltel. Because the tablet is out of the CLUTCHES of the bureaucrats
> at
> any sellphone company, they cannot tinker and tamper and HOBBLE the
> tablet's great functions, like STREAMING YOUR WEBCAM, which most
> sellphones simply won't do, on purpose, to save the sellphone company
> money. The phones are hobbled....the tablets are not.
>
> N810 has a full 20-channel WAAS-compensated GPS receiver with an
> amazingly sensitive chipset like the finest marine GPS units. No
> sellphone-hobbled tower-based GPS fix. N810 puts you right on the
> BENCH
> END you're sitting on from Google or Virtual Earth. N810 comes with
> Wayfinder commercial street software (the review was written before
> Nokia simply swallowed Wayfinder's company). Wayfinder works just
> like
> the $800 car GPS talking you through your trip in several voices you
> choose. Included is the complete, up-to-date, street maps for the
> entire USA/Alaska/Hawaii/PR. The hackers didn't like it, of course,
> so
> an entire community of geocachers decended upon the tablet and wrote
> several open source GPS-based programs for it. The most used is
> called
> "Maemo Mapper", which has a life all its own. Maemo mapper can be
> pointed at any Google-style tile server on the net, through the mobile
> sellphone DUN link for realtime map tile downloading....or using
> stored
> maps on its extensive mini or micro SD memory card offline. Tiles are
> available from Open Street Maps, Google Earth, Virtual Earth, Runway
> finder for real aeronautical US charts, Terraserver for terrain maps
> (mountainclimber/backpacker?), a huge list of places to get tiles.
> New
> apps for GPS are a GPS-based photo for the camera, which will put GPS
> location on every picture you take with it and interface that with
> Google Earth on your desktop at home. The glider pilots wrote a
> complete aeronautical navigation system (it's on the list) for air
> navigation. The Geocaching people have a system. Backpackers wanted
> to
> be able to put their own maps on a GPS-based charting program, so
> invented one you calibrate a jpg picture of the map to 2 or 3 points
> (lat/long) and the GPS puts mark and trail on ANY picture of any map.
> It goes on and on.
This is all great but who wants to carry two gadgets all the time (a
cell phone and a Nokia 810?) I'd like to see all those functions in one
gadget.
As to Linux, I am not afraid of it because I used to play with it from
the time before it was Version 1.0. I quit, however, when Ver. 2.6 came
out because it took too much of my time administering it.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote in
news:Xns9B6AE172C106Fnoonehomecom@74.209.131.13:
[...]
> You don't need a phone:
> http://www.pocketables.net/2008/02/review-nokia-n8.html
>
> The Nokia N800 is the same computer running the same OS and can be had
> much cheaper on Ebay if price is a problem. It uses two SDHC cards,
> up to 32GB each, has front-mounted speakers and I like it better....no
> keyboard. Don't be intimidated by its Linux base. It's easier to use
> than WinXP. I have an old Navy chief who's now a total addict and he
> can hardly get Internet Explorer to run on his desktop.
> and trail on ANY picture of any map.
[...]
> It goes on and on.
well then, you can buy mine.
--
"You tried to steal the identity of a James G. Keegan Jr. who did in
fact author a book, and you're trying to convince people that you are
the same person." -- corrupt prison clerk heishman lying as "Osprey"
in an effort to cover-up his earlier lie that i was not an author
<noneedtok...@mail.com>
in<v4qdndNQW_fFAMXanZ2dnUVZ_sOrn...@comcast.com>
Again, that was from my phone's browser, I get totally different results
when tethering at the same time (no wifi, connected phone to computer and
dialed #777):
1 ge2-1.core2.usenetserver.com (208.49.83.45) 15.159 ms 0.338 ms 0.243
ms
2 TenGigabitEthernet3-3.ar5.ATL1.gblx.net (67.17.197.165) 12.732 ms
0.387 ms 0.364 ms
3 TWTCIP-BACKBONE.TenGigabitEthernet1-3.ar2.DAL2.gblx.net (208.48.33.106)
19.857 ms 19.880 ms 19.853 ms
4 hagg-03-ge-0-0-0-540.hsto.twtelecom.net (66.192.246.206) 25.226 ms
25.251 ms 25.350 ms
5 254.sub-69-83-99.myvzw.com (69.83.99.254) 25.727 ms 25.718 ms 25.729
ms
6 110.sub-66-174-46.myvzw.com (66.174.46.110) 26.223 ms 26.096 ms
25.975 ms
7 43.sub-66-174-93.myvzw.com (66.174.93.43) 25.977 ms 25.971 ms 25.853
msAgain, VOIP works fine when I tether to a laptop to use, which is pretty
neat.I was even able to play a game of Counter Strike (not Source) on my EEE
901 and only had around 50ms lag,on a bus, going 60mph, on the highway, in
the middle of nowhere."Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B6AD2C51629noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
> "Jon" <Jon@cebridge.net> wrote in
> news:aSxZk.25195$Jl5.4097@newsfe19.iad:
>
>> DUN with my LG Dare with VZW
>> $15/month for unlimited
>> Does not dump me every 15 seconds (I can stay connected as long as I
>> need too, highest I have been connected so far is 3 hours before I was
>> done using it)
>> Latency is around 80ms
>> Works with VOIP
>>
>>
>
> Jon, let's test it and post what you see for us:
>
> Go here with your PHONE browser on the phone network, not wifi:
> http://monitor.usenetserver.com/cgi-bin/trace.pl
> UNS will simply do a traceroute back TO you giving you your ping times
> along the route.
>
> Now, copy and paste it into an email message and mail it to your desktop
> you use for this usenet message. Copy it from there and paste it into a
> reply to this message. I did the same from my N800 Linux tablet.
> Here's my results on Alltel EVDO (Windstream) at 20:20 during primetime.
>
> 98.104.177.21
>
> 1 ge2-1.core2.usenetserver.com (208.49.83.45) 0.396 ms 0.204 ms
> 0.237
> ms 2 TenGigabitEthernet3-3.ar5.ATL1.gblx.net (67.17.197.165) 0.347 ms
> 0.374 ms 0.490 ms 3 64.213.176.46 (64.213.176.46) 5.746 ms 5.625 ms
> 5.988 ms 4 * * * 5 75.116.241.36 (75.116.241.36) 29.250 ms 29.474
> ms
> 29.723 ms 6 98.104.177.21 (98.104.177.21) 28.845 ms 27.859 ms
> 28.600
> ms 7 98.104.177.21 (98.104.177.21) 680.419 ms 732.003 ms 747.315 ms
>
> 98.104.177.21 was my IP when I was connected to Alltel through my Z6m's
> DUN. I have an applet on the tablet that confirms that.
>
> It was about 28ms from UNS' server farm to Alltel/Windstream's
> 98.104.177.21, I suppose that feeds Charleston's EVDO. Now, look
> closely at step 7. 680ms, 732ms, 747ms are the ping times to the PHONE
> over EVDO on that last step. Sometimes I've seen it as high as 2
> seconds during the business day when the phone system was really busy!
> This is CRAZY! It's worse than my old dial up modem was back in the
> 80's! This latency is the reason high bandwidth video STREAMING balks
> and squawks and locks. Radio streaming seems to tolerate it, as does
> Skype, which will have a much worse delay than on wifi or Ethernet
> direct, but is still usable. Skype PINGS for this figure and adjusts
> the system accordingly. It's very tolerant of such nonsense if you can
> get 110Kbps for the audio. I also ran the flash speedtest from my cable
> ip: http://speedtest.knology.net/ on the Alltel DUN connection and I'm
> only getting about 788Kbps down and 99Kbps up speeds at the moment.
> That value is quite low. There must be a lot of phone calls on the
> system at 8:30PM 12/4/08 at this moment. It's usually 900-1100Kbps.
>
> (WARNING - iPhone users don't try this at home. It requires cut and
> paste and a Flash-enabled browser you don't have. Storm users can't run
> the Flash speedtest, either.)
>
> Wimax solves BOTH these kluged up sellphone system related maladies.
> Wimax at my buddy's house in Bahrain runs over 9Mbps. On the road, he's
> only getting about 5Mbps. Pingtimes are only slightly higher than on a
> cable modem, far below the 100ms level. Throughput is simply amazing.
>
> Sellphone systems were not designed for PACKET data service, TCP/IP.
> They are VOICE data systems forced into Packet service by various kluged
> up schemes and run like PPP over a DSL line. Wimax, on the other hand,
> like WiFi, was DESIGNED for PACKET data service. It's phone side uses
> packet transmissions much like Skype does over the net. It was designed
> to deliver packet data transmissions....much better.
>
> I'd like to know, from our resident experts, how well LTE, the next-
> generation kluged up packet converter, is going to work, what its
> latency will be and how slow its throughput. LTE is supposed to be the
> savior of sellular from the Wimax threat....besides ATT lawyers, that
> is.
>
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
"K J" <kj@killjoy.invalid> wrote in news:ghaui2$shq$1@news.motzarella.org:
> This is all great but who wants to carry two gadgets all the time (a
> cell phone and a Nokia 810?) I'd like to see all those functions in one
> gadget.
> As to Linux, I am not afraid of it because I used to play with it from
> the time before it was Version 1.0. I quit, however, when Ver. 2.6 came
> out because it took too much of my time administering it.
>
> KJ
>
>
That won't ever happen. You're dreaming. A sellphone will NEVER be
allowed to exist that ISN'T throttled and trashed by the sellphone
corporate beancounters. It simply isn't going to happen because the users
are all sheeple, and will take it as they dish it out without thinking of
what is being done to them.
You wouldn't even recognize Linux, today, if you haven't been around it
since 2.6. Xterm is hidden from the users, now.
Re: Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote in
news:Xns9B6BCF259B565noonehomecom@74.209.131.13:
> "james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:Xns9B6B60C9C5AC9jgleegannycaprrcom@130.133.1. 4:
>
>> well then, you can buy mine.
>
> Price, James, price! Remember it's "old and useless" so the price
> must be pennies on the dollar.....
>
> What do you want for it?
make me an offer. use email.
> What condition is it in?
probably better than my phone. i used it for a few months and never
again after i becan using a win mobile 6 phone. it was always handy, but
it duplicates too many functions of my phone. i don;t mean to be vague.
i don't know the yardstick to use, and here is is gathering dust.
Re: More Android - T-Mobile Monthly Soft Data Caps Will Return?
"Jon" <Jon@cebridge.net> wrote in
news:y%j_k.11294$Re2.9440@newsfe14.iad:
> 6:12PM CST (peak time) - Tested from phone browser (didn't tether)
>
> 1 ge2-1.core2.usenetserver.com (208.49.83.45) 0.347ms 0.351ms 0.239ms
> 2 1-3.r2.at.hwng.net (69.16.190.34) 0.303ms 0.275ms 0.242ms
> 3 2-1.r2.dc.hwng.net (66.16.191.125) 16.729ms 16.645ms 16.729ms
> 4 xe-10-3-0.edge2.Washington4.Level3.net (4.53.114.1) 15.356ms
> 15.392ms 15.357ms
> 5 vlan79.csw2.Washington1.Level3.net (4.68.17.126) 15.981ms 15.976ms
> 15.856ms
> 6 ae-73-73.ebr3.Washington1.Level3.net (4.69.134.165) 17.603ms
> 17.528ms 17.711ms
> 7 ae-4.ebr2.Newark1.Level3.net (4.69.132.102) 34.729ms 22.278ms
> 32.970ms 8 ae-21-54.car1.Newark1.Level3.net (4.68.99.101) 22.726ms
> 22.611ms 22.371ms 9 4.79.188.14 (4.79.118.14) 22.103ms 22.132ms
> 21.996ms 10 66.sub-66-174-106.myvzw.com (66.174.106.66) 22.103ms
> 21.837ms 22.150ms 11 45.sub-66-174-96.myvzw.com (66.174.96.45)
> 57.658ms 57.712ms 57.417ms 12 85.sub-66-174-98.myvzw.com
> (66.174.98.85) 58.456ms 57.878ms 58.083ms 13
> 61.sub-66-174-84.myvzw.com (66.174.84.61) 57.086ms 56.823ms 56.475ms
> 14 txslcsswap.vzwtest.com (66.174.93.14) 57.353ms 57.343ms 60.597ms
> 15 43.sub-66-174-93.myvzw.com (66.174.93.43) 56.792ms 56.706ms
> 57.064ms
>
> Again, that was from my phone's browser, I get totally different
> results when tethering at the same time (no wifi, connected phone to
> computer and dialed #777):
> 1 ge2-1.core2.usenetserver.com (208.49.83.45) 15.159 ms 0.338 ms
> 0.243
> ms
> 2 TenGigabitEthernet3-3.ar5.ATL1.gblx.net (67.17.197.165) 12.732 ms
> 0.387 ms 0.364 ms
> 3 TWTCIP-BACKBONE.TenGigabitEthernet1-3.ar2.DAL2.gblx.net
> (208.48.33.106)
> 19.857 ms 19.880 ms 19.853 ms
> 4 hagg-03-ge-0-0-0-540.hsto.twtelecom.net (66.192.246.206) 25.226
> ms
> 25.251 ms 25.350 ms
> 5 254.sub-69-83-99.myvzw.com (69.83.99.254) 25.727 ms 25.718 ms
> 25.729
> ms
> 6 110.sub-66-174-46.myvzw.com (66.174.46.110) 26.223 ms 26.096 ms
> 25.975 ms
> 7 43.sub-66-174-93.myvzw.com (66.174.93.43) 25.977 ms 25.971 ms
> 25.853
>
I'm most impressed! I've never seen such low pingtimes on a sellphone
system. It's also interesting your IP remains constant in both
connections. That would allow you to remotely access it, if it holds.
Windstream always gives you a whole different IP when you connect.
Now, if we could just get Alltel's unlimited tethered service on this
Verizon system, that would be great! 500GB/second matters not when you're
not allowed to use 5.01GB/month without paying 25c/MB extra.
Thanks for the headsup. The demo laptop at Best Buy in North Charleston
does not have these low reverse ping times. The Knology speed test is
around 180-250Kbps on its aircard and ping times are around 300ms whenever
I can sneak up and test it.
Flaw in G1 results in roaming data charge of $.15 every 3-7 minutes 
Linear Mode
