Get iPhone from Verizon and then don't use it?

I am thinking about buying an iPhone from Verizon, and subscribing to
their cheapest data plan.

I would want to switch my cell phone subscription back and forth between
the new iPhone, and my old Motorola v9m dumbphone. Will Verizon penalize
me for doing so?

I am cost sensitive. I won't sign up for more than one subscription from
Verizon, or anyone else.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstein+usenet@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

One other question. Assuming this scheme works, will I be able to use
the iPhone on WiFi while I have the dumbphone connected to Verizon's
network? In this scenario, I would want to use the iPhone as if it were
an iPod Touch.

In other words, when a Verizon iPhone is not connected to the Verizon
network, is its use restricted?
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstein+usenet@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

Previously on alt.cellular.verizon, David Arnstein said:

> I would want to switch my cell phone subscription back and forth between
> the new iPhone, and my old Motorola v9m dumbphone.

Why? The iPhone can do everything the old Moto can do.

> Will Verizon penalize
> me for doing so?

No, but it will be a PITA.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #32.
I will not fly into a rage and kill a messenger who brings me bad news
just to illustrate how evil I really am. Good messengers are hard to
come by.

David Arnstein wrote on [Fri, 4 May 2012 00:29:54 +0000 (UTC)]:
> I am thinking about buying an iPhone from Verizon, and subscribing to
> their cheapest data plan.
>
> I would want to switch my cell phone subscription back and forth between
> the new iPhone, and my old Motorola v9m dumbphone. Will Verizon penalize
> me for doing so?

I have a question. Why would you want to do that?

On 5/3/2012 5:29 PM, David Arnstein wrote:
> I am thinking about buying an iPhone from Verizon, and subscribing to
> their cheapest data plan.
>
> I would want to switch my cell phone subscription back and forth between
> the new iPhone, and my old Motorola v9m dumbphone. Will Verizon penalize
> me for doing so?
>
> I am cost sensitive. I won't sign up for more than one subscription from
> Verizon, or anyone else.

It should work, but I don't know if they get upset if you keep changing
the IMEI on-line. There's no cost savings in doing so of course, you
still need the data plan, though I can see other reasons for doing what
you plan.

Are you doing this because there are places you go where you don't want
to bring the iPhone for fear it could be damaged, or is it because you
want the improved reception on the V9M? You could always just put the
V9M on Pageplus and forward calls from the iPhone to the V9M though of
course you'd be using minutes on both.

On Fri, 04 May 2012 00:33:37 +0000, David Arnstein wrote:

> One other question. Assuming this scheme works, will I be able to use
> the iPhone on WiFi while I have the dumbphone connected to Verizon's
> network? In this scenario, I would want to use the iPhone as if it were
> an iPod Touch.
>
> In other words, when a Verizon iPhone is not connected to the Verizon
> network, is its use restricted?

Should be able to use the WiFi feature no probs. Now, I'm not speaking
from experience with an iPhone, but with a Nokia I have with WiFi. THe
ONLY reason I carry it with me is if I'm in an area with WiFi to keep data
usage down on my 'Verizon' (PagePlus) phone.

As far as switching back and forth, they will charge you $35 every time
you do it...unless they have gone *UP!*

Look into Page Plus. They won't be able to help you with the iPhone at
this time, but you can get 250 mins and 250 text for $12 a month. For $29
a month you get 1200 mins and 100Mb (may have changed...200Mb?) for $40
you get unlimited talk and text and 100Mb, and for $55 you get all that
and 1Gb data a month. You can add 100Mb for $10 if you go over.

It usees Verizon's 'pre-paid' network, which is almost as good as their
regular network, and uses every VZ phone I have tried; Motorola, LG, Palm
and even a BlackBerry

On 5/3/2012 7:52 PM, hachiroku wrote:

> As far as switching back and forth, they will charge you $35 every time
> you do it...unless they have gone *UP!*

He's not talking about changing plans. He knows that he'll be charged
for data, but sometimes there are reasons for using a V9M versus an iPhone.

> Look into Page Plus. They won't be able to help you with the iPhone at
> this time

Many people have activated iPhones on Pageplus. Officially Pageplus says
no iPhones, but they don't really appear to care.

In article <jnvc81$744$1@dont-email.me>, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>I have a question. Why would you want to do that?

My current collection of gadgets includes a Motorola v9m dumbphone, and
an Apple iPod Touch.

The v9m is a good telephone. It has a good radio and the voice quality
on this thing is also good. The iPhone is a ****** telephone. Voice
quality is not acceptable to me. Radio performance (fringe area
reception) seems to be poor as well.

The v9m is a small enough gadget that I take it everywhere. The iPod
Touch is not.

So my idea is to get rid of my iPod Touch and replace it with an iPhone.
I don't plan to change my habits, much. I would occasionally use the
iPhone for voice calls, but not often. I would occasionally use the
Verizon data network with the iPhone, but not often.

The above two "not often" events are the times when I would switch my
Verizon activation from the v9m to the iPhone.

Basically, if I can get Verizon to pay for most of my iPhone, I might
just let them do it. I tend to upgrade my iPod Touch every two years.
Having Verizon buy me an iPhone every two years might not be too expensive.
I would get to use the superior iPhone cameras too.

I am certainly open to criticism. That's why I posted.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstein+usenet@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

>> I am thinking about buying an iPhone from Verizon, and subscribing to
>> their cheapest data plan.
>>
>> I would want to switch my cell phone subscription back and forth between
>> the new iPhone, and my old Motorola v9m dumbphone. Will Verizon penalize
>> me for doing so?
>>
>> I am cost sensitive. I won't sign up for more than one subscription from
>> Verizon, or anyone else.
>
>It should work, but I don't know if they get upset if you keep changing
>the IMEI on-line. There's no cost savings in doing so of course, you
>still need the data plan, though I can see other reasons for doing what
>you plan.
>
>Are you doing this because there are places you go where you don't want
>to bring the iPhone for fear it could be damaged, or is it because you
>want the improved reception on the V9M? You could always just put the
>V9M on Pageplus and forward calls from the iPhone to the V9M though of
>course you'd be using minutes on both.

If he activates both phones couldn't he use a Google Voice number to
forward to both phones and use the minutes only on the phone that gets
answered?

David Arnstein wrote on [Fri, 4 May 2012 07:29:35 +0000 (UTC)]:
> In article <jnvc81$744$1@dont-email.me>, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>I have a question. Why would you want to do that?
>
>
> The v9m is a small enough gadget that I take it everywhere. The iPod
> Touch is not.
>
> So my idea is to get rid of my iPod Touch and replace it with an iPhone.
> I don't plan to change my habits, much. I would occasionally use the
> iPhone for voice calls, but not often. I would occasionally use the
> Verizon data network with the iPhone, but not often.
>
> The above two "not often" events are the times when I would switch my
> Verizon activation from the v9m to the iPhone.

You'd still be paying the $30 monthly data fee the entire two year period,
so I have to wonder if the "not often" time periods would be worth it to
you.

On 5/4/2012 12:29 AM, David Arnstein wrote:
> In article<jnvc81$744$1@dont-email.me>, Justin<nospam@insightbb.com> wrote:
>> I have a question. Why would you want to do that?
>
> My current collection of gadgets includes a Motorola v9m dumbphone, and
> an Apple iPod Touch.
>
> The v9m is a good telephone. It has a good radio and the voice quality
> on this thing is also good. The iPhone is a ****** telephone. Voice
> quality is not acceptable to me. Radio performance (fringe area
> reception) seems to be poor as well.
>
> The v9m is a small enough gadget that I take it everywhere. The iPod
> Touch is not.
>
> So my idea is to get rid of my iPod Touch and replace it with an iPhone.
> I don't plan to change my habits, much. I would occasionally use the
> iPhone for voice calls, but not often. I would occasionally use the
> Verizon data network with the iPhone, but not often.
>
> The above two "not often" events are the times when I would switch my
> Verizon activation from the v9m to the iPhone.
>
> Basically, if I can get Verizon to pay for most of my iPhone, I might
> just let them do it. I tend to upgrade my iPod Touch every two years.
> Having Verizon buy me an iPhone every two years might not be too expensive.
> I would get to use the superior iPhone cameras too.
>
> I am certainly open to criticism. That's why I posted.

Okay, I'll criticize you.

The subsidy on an iPhone is $415, or $17.29/month for 24 months (this is
factoring in the new $35 fee when upgrading). The minimum monthly plan
cost on a Verizon iPhone, with no texting plan, and the smallest data
plan available with the iPhone, is about $80 per month, or about $1920
over 24 months. Subtract the subsidy and you're paying about
$62.70/month for 2GB of data.

What you could do:

1. Port your current cell phone number to Google Voice
2. Put the V9M on Pageplus
3. Buy a GSM iPhone and put it on Redpocket's $30/month plan
4. Forward calls from Google Voice to both phones.

You could also put a Verizon iPhone onto Pageplus, but officially
Pageplus said that iPhones are not allowed. Unofficially, many people
have put Verizon iPhones on Pageplus. I suppose they could do a sweep of
iPhone MEIDs someday, but it's not in their best interest to do so.

Must you have an iPod Touch? You can run an Android app like Doubletwist
to use your iTunes songs on an Android.

At 04 May 2012 07:29:35 +0000 David Arnstein wrote:
> In article <jnvc81$744$1@dont-email.me>, Justin <nospam@insightbb.com>
wrote:
> >I have a question. Why would you want to do that?
>
> My current collection of gadgets includes a Motorola v9m dumbphone, and
> an Apple iPod Touch.
>
> The v9m is a good telephone. It has a good radio and the voice quality
> on this thing is also good. The iPhone is a ****** telephone. Voice
> quality is not acceptable to me. Radio performance (fringe area
> reception) seems to be poor as well.
>
> The v9m is a small enough gadget that I take it everywhere. The iPod
> Touch is not.
>
> So my idea is to get rid of my iPod Touch and replace it with an iPhone.
> I don't plan to change my habits, much. I would occasionally use the
> iPhone for voice calls, but not often. I would occasionally use the
> Verizon data network with the iPhone, but not often.
>
> The above two "not often" events are the times when I would switch my
> Verizon activation from the v9m to the iPhone.
>
> Basically, if I can get Verizon to pay for most of my iPhone, I might
> just let them do it. I tend to upgrade my iPod Touch every two years.
> Having Verizon buy me an iPhone every two years might not be too
expensive.
> I would get to use the superior iPhone cameras too.
>
> I am certainly open to criticism. That's why I posted.


How is Verizon "buying you an iPhone" every two years when you'll be
forced into a mandatory $30/month data plan that by your own admission
you'll use "rarely". Seems like they're giving you $450 (the difference
between a $200 subsidized iPhone and a $650 unsubsidized one) in return
for $720 ($30/month x 24 month contract.)

For $30/month, I'll mail you a check for $450 every two years!

On 5/4/2012 5:32 AM, M.L. wrote:

> If he activates both phones couldn't he use a Google Voice number to
> forward to both phones and use the minutes only on the phone that gets
> answered?

Yes. And he could port his existing cell phone number over to Google Voice.

I keep an old Motorola V325i activated on Pageplus because it has
excellent reception and can be used in places where my Droid doesn't
work well, especially out in the boonies. iPhones suffer from the same
radio issues as Android phones. It may not be the radio as much as it is
the lack of a good antenna.

The best reception I used to get was when I used Motorola phones in the
Motorola Professional Handsfree Car Kits because they connected the
phone to an antenna on the outside of the car. Alas the V325i doesn't
work with that system.

It's too bad that as wireless has progressed, the actual ability to make
and receive calls has regressed. There are many places, just in the Bay
Area, where I used to be able to make and receive calls on my CDMA/AMPS
phones, that no longer have any signal at all. The FCC supposedly made
the shutdown of AMPS conditional on digital coverage replacing AMPS
coverage, but the reality is that this did not happen in the more remote
areas.

At 04 May 2012 08:01:48 -0700 SMS wrote:

> You could also put a Verizon iPhone onto Pageplus, but officially
> Pageplus said that iPhones are not allowed. Unofficially, many people
> have put Verizon iPhones on Pageplus. I suppose they could do a sweep
> of iPhone MEIDs someday, but it's not in their best interest to do so.


It's not Page Plus I'd fear doing the sweep, but Verizon. It's certainly
in Verizon's best interest to do so!


> Must you have an iPod Touch? You can run an Android app like
> Doubletwist to use your iTunes songs on an Android.

The media experience on an Android device is pretty subpar compared to an
iPod Touch/iPhone, IMO. It works, but it's not nearly as polished.

On 5/4/2012 8:58 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:

> How is Verizon "buying you an iPhone" every two years when you'll be
> forced into a mandatory $30/month data plan that by your own admission
> you'll use "rarely". Seems like they're giving you $450 (the difference
> between a $200 subsidized iPhone and a $650 unsubsidized one) in return
> for $720 ($30/month x 24 month contract.)

Well it isn't really $30 a month since you need to subtract the cost of
whatever alternative service you get.

OTOH, since that $30/month plus tax data plan requires a voice plan of
at least $40/month plus tax, plus perhaps a text plan, it really is
likely a lot more than $30/month.

> For $30/month, I'll mail you a check for $450 every two years!

I'll do it for $25/month.

Hmm, there may be a way to turn that into a business with an excellent
annual return. The problem is fraud and losses.

On 5/4/2012 9:04 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 04 May 2012 08:01:48 -0700 SMS wrote:
>
>> You could also put a Verizon iPhone onto Pageplus, but officially
>> Pageplus said that iPhones are not allowed. Unofficially, many people
>> have put Verizon iPhones on Pageplus. I suppose they could do a sweep
>> of iPhone MEIDs someday, but it's not in their best interest to do so.
>
>
> It's not Page Plus I'd fear doing the sweep, but Verizon. It's certainly
> in Verizon's best interest to do so!

Not so sure about that. Highly unlikely that those Pageplus customers
using Verizon iPhones would use a Verizon iPhone on Verizon proper. At
least Verizon is getting some money from those Pageplus customers.

Why would Verizon even sell non-contract iPhones? No one would buy one
to use on Verizon where there's no monthly discount for bringing your
own device. They must know where they are being used.

Those that simply have to have an iPhone but that don't want to be on a
major carrier could always buy a GSM iPhone and take it to RedPocket or
StraightTalk.

It's pricing theory at its finest. Sell the same product at different
prices, through different channels, to gain both non-price sensitive,
highly profitable, customers and still sell to less profitable,
price-sensitive, customers.

> The media experience on an Android device is pretty subpar compared to an
> iPod Touch/iPhone, IMO. It works, but it's not nearly as polished.

Very true.

Thanks for the great suggestions. I did not realize that Verizon data
is so expensive.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstein+usenet@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

In article <4fa406f1$0$16147$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>Those that simply have to have an iPhone but that don't want to be on a
>major carrier could always buy a GSM iPhone and take it to RedPocket or
>StraightTalk.

The domain RedPocket.com is for sale so I guess their deals were TOO
good! StraightTalk uses AT&T's network, right?
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstein+usenet@pobox.com {{ }}
^^

On 5/4/2012 9:52 AM, David Arnstein wrote:
> In article<4fa406f1$0$16147$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>,
> SMS<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>> Those that simply have to have an iPhone but that don't want to be on a
>> major carrier could always buy a GSM iPhone and take it to RedPocket or
>> StraightTalk.
>
> The domain RedPocket.com is for sale so I guess their deals were TOO
> good! StraightTalk uses AT&T's network, right?

<http://goredpocket.com>
<http://redpocket3g.com>

They could not get <http://redenvelope.com> either.

Redpocket uses AT&T's native network only. StraightTalk includes AT&T
plus roaming. You cannot purchase the $30/month StraightTalk plan for
use with the iPhone.

On 5/4/2012 8:58 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:

> For $30/month, I'll mail you a check for $450 every two years!

But will you give him $450 up front and trust him to send that $30 every
month? That is the essence of the business model of the top tier
carriers. They essentially lend their subscribers $450 at a very high
interest rate, and have the power to collect the monthly payments. You
and I don't have that power.

On Fri, 04 May 2012 09:02:27 -0700, SMS complained:

> The FCC supposedly made
> the shutdown of AMPS conditional on digital coverage replacing AMPS
> coverage, but the reality is that this did not happen in the more remote
> areas.

What happened is that AMPS coverage in one bunch of areas got replaced by
digital coverage in another. Would you have expected anything else :-) ?

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On 5/4/2012 1:44 PM, tlvp wrote:
> On Fri, 04 May 2012 09:02:27 -0700, SMS complained:
>
>> The FCC supposedly made
>> the shutdown of AMPS conditional on digital coverage replacing AMPS
>> coverage, but the reality is that this did not happen in the more remote
>> areas.
>
> What happened is that AMPS coverage in one bunch of areas got replaced by
> digital coverage in another. Would you have expected anything else :-) ?

Those other areas already had digital coverage!

Even if the FCC had tried to enforce their own policy it would have been
difficult. While many of the places that completely lost coverage were
along roads, many of the areas were in places like large parks where it
would be hard to test coverage.

sms88 wrote on [Fri, 04 May 2012 13:01:51 -0700]:
> On 5/4/2012 8:58 AM, Todd Allcock wrote:
>
>> For $30/month, I'll mail you a check for $450 every two years!
>
> But will you give him $450 up front and trust him to send that $30 every
> month? That is the essence of the business model of the top tier
> carriers. They essentially lend their subscribers $450 at a very high
> interest rate, and have the power to collect the monthly payments. You
> and I don't have that power.

That's why they run credit checks and require deposits if your credit is that
bad.

You and I do have that power, it's called lending club

On Fri, 04 May 2012 13:51:49 -0700, sms88 wrote:

> On 5/4/2012 1:44 PM, tlvp wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 May 2012 09:02:27 -0700, SMS complained:
>>
>>> The FCC supposedly made
>>> the shutdown of AMPS conditional on digital coverage replacing AMPS
>>> coverage, but the reality is that this did not happen in the more remote
>>> areas.
>>
>> What happened is that AMPS coverage in one bunch of areas got replaced by
>> digital coverage in another. Would you have expected anything else :-) ?
>
> Those other areas already had digital coverage!

And that's what made doing it that way such a no-brainer :-) .

> Even if the FCC had tried to enforce their own policy it would have been
> difficult. While many of the places that completely lost coverage were
> along roads, many of the areas were in places like large parks where it
> would be hard to test coverage.

I mourn the loss, too, but, for those few places where AMPS is still up, I
now have a lifeline PagePlus account (3x $10 equably distributed each year)
for a classic, old, two-digital-frequency+AMPS Motorola StarTAC :-) .

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

On Fri, 04 May 2012 09:02:27 -0700, SMS wrote:

> On 5/4/2012 5:32 AM, M.L. wrote:
>
>> If he activates both phones couldn't he use a Google Voice number to
>> forward to both phones and use the minutes only on the phone that gets
>> answered?
>
> Yes. And he could port his existing cell phone number over to Google Voice.
>
> I keep an old Motorola V325i activated on Pageplus because it has
> excellent reception and can be used in places where my Droid doesn't
> work well, especially out in the boonies. iPhones suffer from the same
> radio issues as Android phones. It may not be the radio as much as it is
> the lack of a good antenna.
>
> The best reception I used to get was when I used Motorola phones in the
> Motorola Professional Handsfree Car Kits because they connected the
> phone to an antenna on the outside of the car. Alas the V325i doesn't
> work with that system.
>
> It's too bad that as wireless has progressed, the actual ability to make
> and receive calls has regressed. There are many places, just in the Bay
> Area, where I used to be able to make and receive calls on my CDMA/AMPS
> phones, that no longer have any signal at all. The FCC supposedly made
> the shutdown of AMPS conditional on digital coverage replacing AMPS
> coverage, but the reality is that this did not happen in the more remote
> areas.

Wow.

My Blackberry gets EXCELLENT reception in all conditions, and has good,
clear sound, too. The Palm Treo had the touch screen, but sound quality
SUCKED! And Verizon seems to be expanding their pre-paid area (that
PagePlus uses) so I'm getting fewer and fewer 'roaming prompts'.

Previously on alt.cellular.verizon, David Arnstein said:

> My current collection of gadgets includes a Motorola v9m dumbphone, and
> an Apple iPod Touch.
>
> The v9m is a good telephone. It has a good radio and the voice quality
> on this thing is also good. The iPhone is a ****** telephone. Voice
> quality is not acceptable to me. Radio performance (fringe area
> reception) seems to be poor as well.
>
> The v9m is a small enough gadget that I take it everywhere. The iPod
> Touch is not.
>
> So my idea is to get rid of my iPod Touch and replace it with an iPhone.
> I don't plan to change my habits, much. I would occasionally use the
> iPhone for voice calls, but not often. I would occasionally use the
> Verizon data network with the iPhone, but not often.
>
> The above two "not often" events are the times when I would switch my
> Verizon activation from the v9m to the iPhone.

Sounds like you'd be better off just upgrading to a new iPod Touch,
since that's all you're really interested in anyway. Except for
cellular specific features, the iPod Touch does everything the iPhone
does. Or more accurately, the iPhone does everything the iPod Touch
does, plus it's a phone.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

"If I am ever the Hero top 100 list: #13. Self-appointed prophets who
deliver elliptically-worded warnings will be politely asked to
rephrase their utterances in plainer terms. If said prophet refuses
the request, a five-year-old child will be asked to explain the
meaning of the prophecy.

Previously on alt.cellular.verizon, SMS said:

> Must you have an iPod Touch? You can run an Android app like Doubletwist
> to use your iTunes songs on an Android.

There's more to it than music. I live in both ecosystems, I have an
Droid X phone, iPod Touch and I just got an iPad2. I used to have an
iPhone 3G. I still use the Touch because despite the many deficiencies
iTunes has as a Windows application, it happens to also be the best
music manager I've tried, and I have tried off and on for a decade
(ever since my first iPod) to find something better. It also syncs
your photo collection, automatically resizing for the target device,
and other media content such as ebooks, audiobooks, podcasts and
videos. DoubleTwist and iSyncr simply do not or cannot handle all of
that.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
Double ROT13 encoded for your protection

Peter's Top 100 Things I'd Do If I Ever Became An Evil Overlord, #107.
Even though I don't really care because I plan on living forever, I
will hire engineers who are able to build me a fortress sturdy enough
that, if I am slain, it won't tumble to the ground for no good
structural reason.