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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2006, 07:11 PM
admin35
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Posts: n/a
Default How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).

Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
and get the informaiton that I need.

Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
was connected to their cellular network?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2006, 11:43 PM
dr
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

Sorry; except for a court order; I do not believe there is a way to get a
caller id that is unavailable, blocked or spoofed. And those that can
"spoof" are usually businesses with their own switchboards, usually not a
residential or cell phone use. Sorry I can't help. dr

PS: For those that will follow-up with more information then I; my
understanding is that if you block your caller-id to an 800 number; since it
is a paid for service, they get your caller id anyway.

--
dr.news //stores.ebay.com/better-price-wireless (not better than you
deserve, just more than you're used to) //free.better-price.biz (for new
lines of wireless service; all carriers; the phones are almost always a
better-price)

"admin35" <admin35@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:j4a7k2pe7qanvhr1at7cqpievpugbmerj2@4ax.com...
>I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
> Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
> "unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
> Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
>
> Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
> know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
> is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
> of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
> Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
> containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
> specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
> reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
> Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
> and get the informaiton that I need.
>
> Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
> information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
> they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
> cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
> was connected to their cellular network?




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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2006, 01:48 AM
Geoff
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

Caller ID is a strange thing. When I went through HellSouth, I had a
hardware block on my line but when I called my main office in Wisconson, the
number showed up.

I asked a HellSouth person how they can get the number but he did not know.

-g



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2006, 03:13 AM
The Ghost of General Lee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:43:35 -0500, "dr"
<dr@better-price.biz.<delete-obvious>> wrote:

>PS: For those that will follow-up with more information then I; my
>understanding is that if you block your caller-id to an 800 number; since it
>is a paid for service, they get your caller id anyway.


That's the way my toll free number works. I get the calling number on
my CID display and it's in my account detail, too.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2006, 08:54 PM
Just Me (remove
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

800 numbers get your caller-id or phone number because they are paying
for the call. Hard to complain about that since it is "their dime."

You can always call them on their non-800 number and I think your
anonymity gets protected because it is "your dime." Better yet, use
SKYPE and the caller id is a bunch of gibberish, comes out as
123-456-7890 I think.



The Ghost of General Lee wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:43:35 -0500, "dr"
> <dr@better-price.biz.<delete-obvious>> wrote:
>
>> PS: For those that will follow-up with more information then I; my
>> understanding is that if you block your caller-id to an 800 number; since it
>> is a paid for service, they get your caller id anyway.

>
> That's the way my toll free number works. I get the calling number on
> my CID display and it's in my account detail, too.
>


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2006, 10:26 PM
admin35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 18:43:35 -0500, "dr"
<dr@better-price.biz.<delete-obvious>> wrote:

>Sorry; except for a court order; I do not believe there is a way to get a
>caller id that is unavailable, blocked or spoofed. And those that can
>"spoof" are usually businesses with their own switchboards, usually not a
>residential or cell phone use. Sorry I can't help. dr
>
>PS: For those that will follow-up with more information then I; my
>understanding is that if you block your caller-id to an 800 number; since it
>is a paid for service, they get your caller id anyway.


Thanks for the response. To clarify further, I would add the
following:

First off, I don't want the CID (caller ID) information because I
already have the caller ID information.

Second, I want the ANI (automatic number identification) information.
The ANI informaiton is billing information and is more difficult to
alter. I have a toll-free number, and I know that when someone calls
my toll-free number I can get the ANI informaiton for that call (even
if the CID information is blocked or marked private or whatever). But
in this case they called me on my Verison Wireless phone, I can't have
them call my toll free number, and I want the ANI information for the
call that I received on my Verizon Wireless phone.

Third, I want to know what carrer (outside of the Verizon Wireless
network) connected the call to Verizon's Network on it's way to my
cell phone. This is information that is SEPARATE from the CID or ANI
information, and it is not information that is derived from the CID or
ANI information. I know how to get this information for calls to my
Verizon (land line phone), but I don't know how to get this
information from calls to my Verizon Wireless phone.

Fourth, getting a subpoena and/or a court order is the easy part. I
have already sent a subpoena to Verizon Wireless for the information.
The hard part is finding out who at Verizon Wireless knows how to get
this information so they can give it to me in response to my subpoena.

Anyone have any ideas?

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2006, 10:39 PM
The Ghost of General Lee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:26:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:

>Fourth, getting a subpoena and/or a court order is the easy part. I
>have already sent a subpoena to Verizon Wireless for the information.
>The hard part is finding out who at Verizon Wireless knows how to get
>this information so they can give it to me in response to my subpoena.


Then it sounds like you haven't sent a real subpoena off to VZW. That
would hit their legal department and the info would be forthcoming.
You wouldn't need to ask who to get the info from. The subpoena would
do all the talking necessary. Did a judge sign your subpoena? If
not, who did and under what authority did they sign it?


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2006, 10:59 AM
none@none.net
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

This is so easy. All telcos in North America use Signal System 7 or
may have moved to 8 by now. Under SS7, the LEC, OCC, and MTSOs all
communicate out of band before a call is assigned a voice channel. The
data packet sent contains the originating BTN, the carrier code,
billing codes, etc. It is this data packet that causes a 'reverse
lookup' to get the subscriber name if CID with name is purchased on
the destination end.

The easiest way to 'spoof' a destination is to use an ATT calling
card. It gives one of about seven hub numbers and those are actually
about one of 5,000 lines ATT uses to dumb the call back out.

QUESTION, what jurisdiction are you in that you can issue your own
subpeona/court order? I have worked closely with the courts in
several jurisdictions and have not seen anyone where the plantiff can
issue their own without a judge or magistrates signature.


none






On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:11:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:

>I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
>Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
>"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
>Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
>
>Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
>know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
>is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
>of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
>Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
>containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
>specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
>reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
>Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
>and get the informaiton that I need.
>
>Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
>information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
>they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
>cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
>was connected to their cellular network?


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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2006, 12:39 PM
admin35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 18:39:09 -0500, The Ghost of General Lee
<ghost@general.lee> wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:26:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Fourth, getting a subpoena and/or a court order is the easy part. I
>>have already sent a subpoena to Verizon Wireless for the information.
>>The hard part is finding out who at Verizon Wireless knows how to get
>>this information so they can give it to me in response to my subpoena.

>
>Then it sounds like you haven't sent a real subpoena off to VZW. That
>would hit their legal department and the info would be forthcoming.
>You wouldn't need to ask who to get the info from. The subpoena would
>do all the talking necessary. Did a judge sign your subpoena? If
>not, who did and under what authority did they sign it?


Thanks for the response. I have been doing this (sending subpoeanas
to telephone companies) for several years now. I am in PA. I don't
need a judge to sign my subpoena, it is signed, stamped, sealed, and
issued by the Prothonotary for the Court of Common Pleas in PA. The
issue is not with the subpoena. Verizon Wireless is not contesting
the validity of my subpoena. They are in fact responding to my
subpoena - but they are saying that they don't have the informaiton
that I have requested in the subpoena. I have spoken with a senior
counsel for subpoena compliance associated with Verizon Wireless, and
they are more than happy to provide me with any information that they
have. The problem is that they claim not to have the information that
I am asking for - so I need to be more specific in my request.

For example, I would like to know the ANI information associated with
the call to my cell phone. If the call was received on my land line
phone, then the ANI information would be available by subpoena. But
since cell phone comnpanies bill the end users for all incomming
calls, I don't know if they keep track of the ANI information on any
incomming calls. If they don't have the ANI information, then all the
subpoenas and court orders in the world won't get the information from
them. On the other hand, maybe Verizon Wireless calls the ANI
information something else. For example, if Verizon Wireless calls
ANI information "the out of band tracking number" (I just made that
up), then they can respond to my subpoena and tell me that they don't
have any ANI information - because they don't. And they don't have to
give me the "out of band tracking number" - because I didn't ask for
that.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2006, 12:45 PM
admin35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

Thanks for your response.

In my case, sometimes the CID information is simply "unavailable", and
other times I believe the CID information is being put through by a
PBX (Private Branch Exchange). There's nothing wrong (per se) with a
company putting through a CID of their choice. It's just that the CID
information (when it is "available") is not of any value to me, and
thus any information derived from it is of no value to me.

I want to know the "out of band" information associated with the call
that I received on my Verizon Wireless phone. Does Verizon Wireless
keep a record of any "out of band" information when it receives a call
from outside of it's network? If so, then what out of band
information is recorded, where is it recorded, how long is it
retained, and how would I ask for it?

WRT to the subpoena itself, I am in PA. In order to send a subpoena
to a phone company, I have to file a civil complaint in the court of
common pleas, pay $2 to the prothonotary for a blank subpoena form
that is numbered, stamped with a sealed, and signed by the
prothonotary (it's a stamped signature). THen I fill out the subpoena
form indicating the plaintiff, defendant, case number, who the
subpoena is directed to, what information/documents are being
requested, and who is sending the subpoena. If a company that does
business in PA refuses to respond to a PA subpoena, then I file a
motion to compel with the court and the judge signs an order
compelling a response within x days or sanctions may be applied. If a
company does not do business in PA, then they can respond to a PA
subpoena or not, it's their choice. If they choose not to respond,
then I have to domesticate my subpoena in a state that they do
business in and have that state issue a subpoena directing them to
respond.

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 06:59:15 -0500, none@none.net wrote:

>This is so easy. All telcos in North America use Signal System 7 or
>may have moved to 8 by now. Under SS7, the LEC, OCC, and MTSOs all
>communicate out of band before a call is assigned a voice channel. The
>data packet sent contains the originating BTN, the carrier code,
>billing codes, etc. It is this data packet that causes a 'reverse
>lookup' to get the subscriber name if CID with name is purchased on
>the destination end.
>
>The easiest way to 'spoof' a destination is to use an ATT calling
>card. It gives one of about seven hub numbers and those are actually
>about one of 5,000 lines ATT uses to dumb the call back out.
>
>QUESTION, what jurisdiction are you in that you can issue your own
>subpeona/court order? I have worked closely with the courts in
>several jurisdictions and have not seen anyone where the plantiff can
>issue their own without a judge or magistrates signature.
>


>On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:11:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
>>Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
>>"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
>>Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
>>
>>Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
>>know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
>>is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
>>of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
>>Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
>>containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
>>specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
>>reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
>>Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
>>and get the informaiton that I need.
>>
>>Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
>>information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
>>they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
>>cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
>>was connected to their cellular network?


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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-03-2006, 10:44 AM
none@none.net
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

thanks for the info. subpeonas are not as inexpensive in the deep
south. They are $25 plus the sheriff or constables service charge.

As far as SS7 data retention, when I worked for Ma Bell, the retention
period for raw data was about 7 days for local (non-toll), 90 days for
toll traffic. I have often wondered about places with near 100%
measured local service.

One idea would be to get a PRI line with an SS7 data channel. This
should give you 24 channels. The SS7 data would be channel 23 with
the PRI data on 24. You would then have 22 other channels for data or
voice.

Sounds like it is time for another subpeona, "how long to you keep raw
SS7 data on inbound calls?"


none



On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 13:45:37 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:

>Thanks for your response.
>
>In my case, sometimes the CID information is simply "unavailable", and
>other times I believe the CID information is being put through by a
>PBX (Private Branch Exchange). There's nothing wrong (per se) with a
>company putting through a CID of their choice. It's just that the CID
>information (when it is "available") is not of any value to me, and
>thus any information derived from it is of no value to me.
>
>I want to know the "out of band" information associated with the call
>that I received on my Verizon Wireless phone. Does Verizon Wireless
>keep a record of any "out of band" information when it receives a call
>from outside of it's network? If so, then what out of band
>information is recorded, where is it recorded, how long is it
>retained, and how would I ask for it?
>
>WRT to the subpoena itself, I am in PA. In order to send a subpoena
>to a phone company, I have to file a civil complaint in the court of
>common pleas, pay $2 to the prothonotary for a blank subpoena form
>that is numbered, stamped with a sealed, and signed by the
>prothonotary (it's a stamped signature). THen I fill out the subpoena
>form indicating the plaintiff, defendant, case number, who the
>subpoena is directed to, what information/documents are being
>requested, and who is sending the subpoena. If a company that does
>business in PA refuses to respond to a PA subpoena, then I file a
>motion to compel with the court and the judge signs an order
>compelling a response within x days or sanctions may be applied. If a
>company does not do business in PA, then they can respond to a PA
>subpoena or not, it's their choice. If they choose not to respond,
>then I have to domesticate my subpoena in a state that they do
>business in and have that state issue a subpoena directing them to
>respond.
>
>On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 06:59:15 -0500, none@none.net wrote:
>
>>This is so easy. All telcos in North America use Signal System 7 or
>>may have moved to 8 by now. Under SS7, the LEC, OCC, and MTSOs all
>>communicate out of band before a call is assigned a voice channel. The
>>data packet sent contains the originating BTN, the carrier code,
>>billing codes, etc. It is this data packet that causes a 'reverse
>>lookup' to get the subscriber name if CID with name is purchased on
>>the destination end.
>>
>>The easiest way to 'spoof' a destination is to use an ATT calling
>>card. It gives one of about seven hub numbers and those are actually
>>about one of 5,000 lines ATT uses to dumb the call back out.
>>
>>QUESTION, what jurisdiction are you in that you can issue your own
>>subpeona/court order? I have worked closely with the courts in
>>several jurisdictions and have not seen anyone where the plantiff can
>>issue their own without a judge or magistrates signature.
>>

>
>>On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:11:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
>>>Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
>>>"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
>>>Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
>>>
>>>Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
>>>know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
>>>is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
>>>of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
>>>Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
>>>containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
>>>specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
>>>reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
>>>Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
>>>and get the informaiton that I need.
>>>
>>>Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
>>>information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
>>>they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
>>>cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
>>>was connected to their cellular network?


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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2006, 07:53 PM
admin35
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: How to find who called when Caller ID is "unavailable"

I respond to my own post as follows:

Telephone carriers apparently bill other carriers for terminating
calls to their subscribers. For instance, if I have a land line phone
with Bell South service, and you call me from your land line phone
that is serviced by Qwest, then Bell South will bill Qwest a small
amount of money for terminating the call from Qwest's subcriber (ie.
you) to Bell South's subscriber (ie. me). This is done using a
Carrier Access Billing System (CABS), and the carrier (ie. Qwest in
this example) is identified by their Carrier Identification Code
(CIC). Presumably cell phone service providers like Verizon Wireless
also use a CABS system to bill carriers who want to terminate calls to
Verizon Wireless cell phone customers.

Verizon (land line, not wireless) and Comcast Cable can find the CIC
information for calls terminated to my Verizon (land line, not
wireless) and Comcast Cable phones, respectively.

Verizon Wireless says they're looking into it, and they'll get back to
me...

Anyone have any information on the CABS system that Verizon Wireless
uses???


On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 19:11:14 GMT, admin35 <admin35@verizon.net> wrote:
>I need to track down who is calling me on my cell phone (Verizon
>Wireless). The calls come from Caller ID's (CID's) that are
>"unavilable" (or they are "spoofed" such that the number provided in
>Caller ID is not in any way related to the caller).
>
>Sicne the calls did not come from a Verizon Wireless subscriber, I
>know that Verizon Wireless cannot tell me the name of the person who
>is billed for the number that called me. However, for similar types
>of calls to my land-line Verizon phone I can send a subpoena to
>Verizon (land line) and ask them for a "special computer search"
>containing the "raw switch data" for a call to a specific number on a
>specific date at a specific time. The "special computer search"
>reveals which outside telephone carrier connected that call to
>Verizon's network. I can then send a subpoena to that outside carrier
>and get the informaiton that I need.
>
>Anyone have any idea how to do this for a cellular phone number? What
>information do cellular phone companies have about incoming calls? Can
>they identify the outside carrier that connected a call to their
>cellular network? Can they obtain the ANI information for a call that
>was connected to their cellular network?


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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-06-2007, 04:21 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 0
Default caller id unavilable

best thing is to set your cell phone to reject un-identified numbers then the people calling you will have to change numbers to get thru...

also.. check out Caller Id Unavailable it may give you some insight.
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