iPhone will never run VoIP or streaming!

It took a little digging, just like it does on Verizon, but here's why
the Iphone for $600 will ONLY do webpages and email:

From ATT's legaleze on:
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...plan-terms.jsp

"Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Data Service sessions may be conducted
only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and
(iii) corporate intranet access (including access to corporate email,
customer relationship management, sales force automation, and field
service automation applications). PROHIBITED USES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT
LIMITED TO, USING SERVICES: (I) WITH SERVER DEVICES OR WITH HOST COMPUTER
APPLICATIONS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WEB CAMERA POSTS OR
BROADCASTS, CONTINUOUS JPEG FILE TRANSFERS, AUTOMATIC DATA FEEDS,
TELEMETRY APPLICATIONS, PEER-TO-PEER (P2P) FILE SHARING, AUTOMATED
FUNCTIONS OR ANY OTHER MACHINE-TO-MACHINE APPLICATIONS; (II) AS
SUBSTITUTE OR BACKUP FOR PRIVATE LINES OR DEDICATED DATA CONNECTIONS;
(III) FOR VOICE OVER IP; (IV) IN CONJUNCTION WITH WWAN OR OTHER
APPLICATIONS OR DEVICES WHICH AGGREGATE USAGE FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES PRIOR
TO TRANSMISSION; (V) USING THE SERVICES FOR ANY ACTIVITY THAT ADVERSELY
AFFECTS THE ABILITY OF OTHER PEOPLE OR SYSTEMS TO USE EITHER THE SERVICES
OR OTHER PARTIES' INTERNET-BASED RESOURCES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO
EXCESSIVE CONSUMPTION OF NETWORK OR SYSTEM RESOURCES (WHETHER INTENTIONAL
OR UNINTENTIONAL) AND "DENIAL OF SERVICE" (DOS) ATTACKS AGAINST ANOTHER
NETWORK HOST OR INDIVIDUAL USER; OR (VI) INTERFERENCE WITH OR DISRUPTION
OF OTHER NETWORK USERS, NETWORK SERVICES OR NETWORK EQUIPMENT. EXCEPT FOR
CONTENT FORMATTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH AT&T'S WIRELESS CONTENT STANDARDS,
UNLIMITED PLANS CANNOT BE USED FOR UPLOADING, DOWNLOADING OR STREAMING OF
VIDEO CONTENT (E.G. MOVIES, TV), MUSIC OR GAMES. FURTHERMORE, UNLIMITED
PLANS (EXCEPT FOR DATACONNECT AND BLACKBERRY TETHERED) CANNOT BE USED FOR
ANY APPLICATIONS THAT TETHER THE DEVICE (THROUGH USE OF, INCLUDING
WITHOUT LIMITATION, CONNECTION KITS, OTHER PHONE/PDA-TO-COMPUTER
ACCESSORIES, BLUETOOTH® OR ANY OTHER WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY) TO LAPTOPS,
PCS, OR OTHER EQUIPMENT FOR ANY PURPOSE. Service is not intended to
provide full-time connections, and the Service may be discontinued after
a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage.
AT&T reserves the right to (i) limit throughput or amount of data
transferred, deny Service and/or terminate Service, without notice, to
anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited above or
whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or
hinders access to its wireless network and (ii) protect its wireless
network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not
send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent.
You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and
applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are
not for resale."

As you can see, just like the rest of cellular, ATT will NOT allow any
kind of video, streaming, VoIP, downloading (except iTunes I suppose) or
any other REAL internet usage over your new $600 iPhone.

Do you REALLY want a $600 web browser and email machine?

Verizon Wireless finally spelled out how much is too much at 5GB/month,
$12/GB, which is obscene. I don't see this wording on ATT, which makes
it arbitrary where the line is. If Miss Tomlin (of the telephone
company) sees your downloading, YOU'RE TOAST!...(c;

I bet this obviously limited data service DOESN'T include Steve Jobs or
Apple Executives at demos.....(c;

Larry
--
Well, at LEAST it does WIFI so it might have SOME use.....
Cellular EVDO or not....that's USELESS...same old defecant, new name....

We'll now hear from those that think this means nothing and you can use
your new iPhone any ol' way you want....which is just NOT true.

READ THE FINE PRINT, PEOPLE! ALL OF IT! (EVEN THE FONT IS TINY!)

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote in news:Xns995CC1F694C91noonehomecom@
208.49.80.253:

> From ATT's legaleze on:
> http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...plan-terms.jsp
>

Coming in another door in the maze, I found the SAME JARGON on the
SPECIAL IPHONE TERMS OF USE webpage:

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp

Just like a Blackberry or your 8Ghz, 4.2TB laptop....WEBPAGES, EMAIL,
COMPANY INTRANET ONLY! No streaming, no downloading, no sharing, no
bluetooth-to-my-mainframe, and, GOD NO SKYPE!

Ye'll chop off y'er HEAD! Ye will!

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> It took a little digging, just like it does on Verizon, but here's why
> the Iphone for $600 will ONLY do webpages and email:

So FUNNY... thanks for post this... It's funny since Apple didn't allow
ATT any control over the iPhone. ATT basically holds an "empty bag" and
Steve completely tricked them, now it's too late, ATT has been screwed.

Apple owns all control over the iPhone, all control over the fast
portion of the network, only ATT can tie people into obsolete "out of
range of 802.11" / "minute plans" but DATA and everything else, Apple
controls.

This ranks right up there with MS screwing over IBM, congrats to Apple.

(att's worthless / pointless legal statement clipped)

> As you can see, just like the rest of cellular, ATT will NOT allow any
> kind of video, streaming, VoIP, downloading (except iTunes I suppose) or
> any other REAL internet usage over your new $600 iPhone.

But that's only on THEIR old EDGE network, nobody in their right mind is
going to be using that unless they are out in a corn field somewhere.

(the iPhone is $499, not $600, please update your notes)

> Do you REALLY want a $600 web browser and email machine?

Not if it's through ATT! but a $499 phone that freely connects to the
Web, does email, makes free phone calls, etc, etc... sure! ATT is just a
stupid pawn in the game at this point.

> Verizon Wireless finally spelled out how much is too much at 5GB/month,
> $12/GB, which is obscene. I don't see this wording on ATT, which makes
> it arbitrary where the line is. If Miss Tomlin (of the telephone
> company) sees your downloading, YOU'RE TOAST!...(c;

But again, that is ONLY if you are on their network, which very few
iPhone users will be... You need to understand the iPhone comes from the
COMPUTER world, where "fees" for metered bandwidth are NOT TOLERATED.

> I bet this obviously limited data service DOESN'T include Steve Jobs or
> Apple Executives at demos.....(c;

Yep, ATT got tricked by Steve, so it's funny to see how bad ATT lost.

-

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> > From ATT's legaleze on:
> > http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...plan-terms.jsp
>
> Coming in another door in the maze, I found the SAME JARGON on the
> SPECIAL IPHONE TERMS OF USE webpage:
>
> http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp

Again, TOO FUNNY, they honestly don't have a clue what they have agreed
to. Apple owns the iPhone lock stock and barrel, ATT has no control over
ANYTHING with the iPhone except the cell contract. So ATT is screwed for
the first time in their Cell Phone lives, they don't have a chance to
control what Steve turns future iPhones into...

> Just like a Blackberry or your 8Ghz, 4.2TB laptop....WEBPAGES, EMAIL,
> COMPANY INTRANET ONLY! No streaming, no downloading, no sharing, no
> bluetooth-to-my-mainframe, and, GOD NO SKYPE!
>
> Ye'll chop off y'er HEAD! Ye will!

Yep, cute... and blackberry doesn't have control over their own product,
since they signed their future away to ATT.

This is shaping up to be a 1981, MS/IBM agreement all over again. BG:
"sure I'll sell you MS-DOS for $60" (or whatever) but I retain rights to
the software (as his dad told him) then, IBM later in 1986 says, oh my
GOD, we don't control MS-Dos? SHIT! Now we don't control Windows, SHIT,
now OS/2 is HISTORY, SHIT. IBM leaves the entire market in 2004 or so.

The same thing is now going to happen to ATT, they signed a deal with
the devil, the devil that wants the best for consumers, not any self
interest.

Karma just killed ATT, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, good riddance!

On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:59:59 +0000, Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

>It took a little digging, just like it does on Verizon, but here's why
>the Iphone for $600 will ONLY do webpages and email:


What do you think Youtube is?


>
>From ATT's legaleze on:
>http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...plan-terms.jsp
>
>"Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Data Service sessions may be conducted
>only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and
>(iii) corporate intranet access (including access to corporate email,
>customer relationship management, sales force automation, and field
>service automation applications). PROHIBITED USES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT
>LIMITED TO, USING SERVICES: (I) WITH SERVER DEVICES OR WITH HOST COMPUTER
>APPLICATIONS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WEB CAMERA POSTS OR
>BROADCASTS, CONTINUOUS JPEG FILE TRANSFERS, AUTOMATIC DATA FEEDS,
>TELEMETRY APPLICATIONS, PEER-TO-PEER (P2P) FILE SHARING, AUTOMATED
>FUNCTIONS OR ANY OTHER MACHINE-TO-MACHINE APPLICATIONS; (II) AS
>SUBSTITUTE OR BACKUP FOR PRIVATE LINES OR DEDICATED DATA CONNECTIONS;
>(III) FOR VOICE OVER IP; (IV) IN CONJUNCTION WITH WWAN OR OTHER
>APPLICATIONS OR DEVICES WHICH AGGREGATE USAGE FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES PRIOR
>TO TRANSMISSION; (V) USING THE SERVICES FOR ANY ACTIVITY THAT ADVERSELY
>AFFECTS THE ABILITY OF OTHER PEOPLE OR SYSTEMS TO USE EITHER THE SERVICES
>OR OTHER PARTIES' INTERNET-BASED RESOURCES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO
>EXCESSIVE CONSUMPTION OF NETWORK OR SYSTEM RESOURCES (WHETHER INTENTIONAL
>OR UNINTENTIONAL) AND "DENIAL OF SERVICE" (DOS) ATTACKS AGAINST ANOTHER
>NETWORK HOST OR INDIVIDUAL USER; OR (VI) INTERFERENCE WITH OR DISRUPTION
>OF OTHER NETWORK USERS, NETWORK SERVICES OR NETWORK EQUIPMENT. EXCEPT FOR
>CONTENT FORMATTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH AT&T'S WIRELESS CONTENT STANDARDS,
>UNLIMITED PLANS CANNOT BE USED FOR UPLOADING, DOWNLOADING OR STREAMING OF
>VIDEO CONTENT (E.G. MOVIES, TV), MUSIC OR GAMES. FURTHERMORE, UNLIMITED
>PLANS (EXCEPT FOR DATACONNECT AND BLACKBERRY TETHERED) CANNOT BE USED FOR
>ANY APPLICATIONS THAT TETHER THE DEVICE (THROUGH USE OF, INCLUDING
>WITHOUT LIMITATION, CONNECTION KITS, OTHER PHONE/PDA-TO-COMPUTER
>ACCESSORIES, BLUETOOTH® OR ANY OTHER WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY) TO LAPTOPS,
>PCS, OR OTHER EQUIPMENT FOR ANY PURPOSE. Service is not intended to
>provide full-time connections, and the Service may be discontinued after
>a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage.
>AT&T reserves the right to (i) limit throughput or amount of data
>transferred, deny Service and/or terminate Service, without notice, to
>anyone it believes is using the Service in any manner prohibited above or
>whose usage adversely impacts its wireless network or service levels or
>hinders access to its wireless network and (ii) protect its wireless
>network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows. You may not
>send solicitations to AT&T's wireless subscribers without their consent.
>You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and
>applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-commercial use only and are
>not for resale."
>
>As you can see, just like the rest of cellular, ATT will NOT allow any
>kind of video, streaming, VoIP, downloading (except iTunes I suppose) or
>any other REAL internet usage over your new $600 iPhone.
>
>Do you REALLY want a $600 web browser and email machine?
>
>Verizon Wireless finally spelled out how much is too much at 5GB/month,
>$12/GB, which is obscene. I don't see this wording on ATT, which makes
>it arbitrary where the line is. If Miss Tomlin (of the telephone
>company) sees your downloading, YOU'RE TOAST!...(c;
>
>I bet this obviously limited data service DOESN'T include Steve Jobs or
>Apple Executives at demos.....(c;
>
>Larry

> Yep, ATT got tricked by Steve, so it's funny to see how bad ATT lost.


Really? I'll admit I don't know much about this deal, but I though you
still had to pay AT&T a voice AND data plan for each iPhone, so
whether you use the at&T data, or 802.11 you ARE going to pay AT&T for
both data and voice...

Plus, where do you see the details between the Apple and AT&T
contract, or are you just making that up?

Oxford wrote:
> Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>>> From ATT's legaleze on:
>>> http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...plan-terms.jsp
>> Coming in another door in the maze, I found the SAME JARGON on the
>> SPECIAL IPHONE TERMS OF USE webpage:
>>
>> http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp
>
> Again, TOO FUNNY, they honestly don't have a clue what they have agreed
> to. Apple owns the iPhone lock stock and barrel, ATT has no control over
> ANYTHING with the iPhone except the cell contract. So ATT is screwed for
> the first time in their Cell Phone lives, they don't have a chance to
> control what Steve turns future iPhones into...
>
>> Just like a Blackberry or your 8Ghz, 4.2TB laptop....WEBPAGES, EMAIL,
>> COMPANY INTRANET ONLY! No streaming, no downloading, no sharing, no
>> bluetooth-to-my-mainframe, and, GOD NO SKYPE!
>>
>> Ye'll chop off y'er HEAD! Ye will!
>
> Yep, cute... and blackberry doesn't have control over their own product,
> since they signed their future away to ATT.
>
> This is shaping up to be a 1981, MS/IBM agreement all over again. BG:
> "sure I'll sell you MS-DOS for $60" (or whatever) but I retain rights to
> the software (as his dad told him) then, IBM later in 1986 says, oh my
> GOD, we don't control MS-Dos? SHIT! Now we don't control Windows, SHIT,
> now OS/2 is HISTORY, SHIT. IBM leaves the entire market in 2004 or so.
>
> The same thing is now going to happen to ATT, they signed a deal with
> the devil, the devil that wants the best for consumers, not any self
> interest.
>
> Karma just killed ATT, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, good riddance!

Karma is only going to kill the cell companies' business model of
controlled portal content -- *if* the iPhone lives up to its hype for
consumers.

Q

jerryeveretts <ifreeley@gmail.com> wrote:

> Really? I'll admit I don't know much about this deal, but I though you
> still had to pay AT&T a voice AND data plan for each iPhone, so
> whether you use the at&T data, or 802.11 you ARE going to pay AT&T for
> both data and voice...

yes, for 1 day and $175 to break the contract, or 24 months, but then
the iPhone is completely free of ATT.

> Plus, where do you see the details between the Apple and AT&T
> contract, or are you just making that up?

http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html

http://www.apple.com/iphone/usingiphone/activation.html

In article <1182997559.208799.57030@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups. com>,
jerryeveretts <ifreeley@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Yep, ATT got tricked by Steve, so it's funny to see how bad ATT lost.
>
>
> Really? I'll admit I don't know much about this deal, but I though you
> still had to pay AT&T a voice AND data plan for each iPhone, so
> whether you use the at&T data, or 802.11 you ARE going to pay AT&T for
> both data and voice...

You can get an iPhone with any AT&T plan, actually, so you don't
strictly need to have a data plan.

> Plus, where do you see the details between the Apple and AT&T
> contract, or are you just making that up?

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

In article <Xns995CC1F694C91noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> It took a little digging, just like it does on Verizon, but here's why
> the Iphone for $600 will ONLY do webpages and email:
>
> From ATT's legaleze on:
> http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...plan-terms.jsp
>
> "Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Data Service

These are the terms of use for AT&T's data services. Any use of Skype,
etc. would obviously be over WiFi, not over AT&T's network.

It remains to be seen how hackable the iPhone is, of course, but what
you've posted here doesn't represent any kind of barrier.

[snip]

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

karlkrandall@sbcglobal.net wrote in
news:vtv583tj3djbdic7bd3o58k4ppdl10th4k@4ax.com:

> What do you think Youtube is?
>

I think it's streaming content, but it matters not what I think, or
you.....

It matters what ATT's network people think.

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

"ZnU" <znu@fake.invalid> wrote in message
news:znu-331534.23322227062007@individual.net...
> In article <1182997559.208799.57030@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups. com>,
> jerryeveretts <ifreeley@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Yep, ATT got tricked by Steve, so it's funny to see how bad ATT lost.
>>
>>
>> Really? I'll admit I don't know much about this deal, but I though you
>> still had to pay AT&T a voice AND data plan for each iPhone, so
>> whether you use the at&T data, or 802.11 you ARE going to pay AT&T for
>> both data and voice...
>
> You can get an iPhone with any AT&T plan, actually, so you don't
> strictly need to have a data plan.

incorrect.
http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html

On Jun 27, 4:56 pm, Oxford <colalovesm...@mac.com> wrote:
> Larry <n...@home.com> wrote:
> > It took a little digging, just like it does on Verizon, but here's why
> > the Iphone for $600 will ONLY do webpages and email:
>
> So FUNNY... thanks for post this... It's funny since Apple didn't allow
> ATT any control over the iPhone. ATT basically holds an "empty bag" and
> Steve completely tricked them, now it's too late, ATT has been screwed.
>
> Apple owns all control over the iPhone, all control over the fast
> portion of the network, only ATT can tie people into obsolete "out of
> range of 802.11" / "minute plans" but DATA and everything else, Apple
> controls.
>

Good. The cell phone companies here suck (in terms of freedom/
features) compared to most
of western Europe, it seems.

> This ranks right up there with MS screwing over IBM, congrats to Apple.
>

Now if the other manufacturers would just grow a pair and do the same
thing. Infact,
all electronic companies need to do that and tell Hollywood to accept
or fuck off instead
of kowtowing to their demands for companies to cripple their own
products with DRM
and other such crap.

ZnU wrote:
> In article <Xns995CC1F694C91noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
> Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>
>>It took a little digging, just like it does on Verizon, but here's why
>>the Iphone for $600 will ONLY do webpages and email:
>>
>>From ATT's legaleze on:
>>http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-pho...plan-terms.jsp
>>
>>"Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Data Service
>
>
> These are the terms of use for AT&T's data services. Any use of Skype,
> etc. would obviously be over WiFi, not over AT&T's network.
>
> It remains to be seen how hackable the iPhone is, of course, but what
> you've posted here doesn't represent any kind of barrier.
>
> [snip]
>
One more interesting observation on this non-Verizon device:

"Apple takes a gamble with restrictive iPhone options -
Success of the device might hinge on what it lacks"


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/Business

BTW, the 8gb model at $599, rounded to nearest 100 works out to $600
(for whomever objected to that number ;-) - interesting to know what the
unsubsidized price (without contract) would be...

ROC

The article has some mis-information. AT&T DOES have 3G (and 3.5G)
service. Crapple's iPhone just doesn't support it (EDGE only).

SoCalCommie

"The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot
is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalist is proud
of his country no matter what it does; the first attitude creates a
feeling of responsibility, but the second a feeling of blind arrogance
that leads to war." - Sidney J. Harris

"rocxspam" <nospam@xspamx.no> wrote in message
news:4683af9d$0$24789$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
> One more interesting observation on this non-Verizon device:
>
> "Apple takes a gamble with restrictive iPhone options -
> Success of the device might hinge on what it lacks"
>
>
>
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/Business
>
> BTW, the 8gb model at $599, rounded to nearest 100 works out to $600
> (for whomever objected to that number ;-) - interesting to know what
the
> unsubsidized price (without contract) would be...
>
> ROC

In article <iKIgi.27280$YL5.22289@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> ,
"ed" <news@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:

> "ZnU" <znu@fake.invalid> wrote in message
> news:znu-331534.23322227062007@individual.net...
> > In article <1182997559.208799.57030@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups. com>,
> > jerryeveretts <ifreeley@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> > Yep, ATT got tricked by Steve, so it's funny to see how bad ATT lost.
> >>
> >>
> >> Really? I'll admit I don't know much about this deal, but I though you
> >> still had to pay AT&T a voice AND data plan for each iPhone, so
> >> whether you use the at&T data, or 802.11 you ARE going to pay AT&T for
> >> both data and voice...
> >
> > You can get an iPhone with any AT&T plan, actually, so you don't
> > strictly need to have a data plan.
>
> incorrect.
> http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html

Incorrect.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/26plans.html

"In addition, iPhone customers can choose from any of AT&T¹s standard
service plans."

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

On Jun 28, 10:00 am, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> In article <iKIgi.27280$YL5.22...@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> ,
>
>
>
>
>
> "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > "ZnU" <z...@fake.invalid> wrote in message
> >news:znu-331534.23322227062007@individual.net...
> > > In article <1182997559.208799.57...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups. com>,
> > > jerryeveretts <ifree...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > Yep, ATT got tricked by Steve, so it's funny to see how bad ATT lost.
>
> > >> Really? I'll admit I don't know much about this deal, but I though you
> > >> still had to pay AT&T a voice AND data plan for each iPhone, so
> > >> whether you use the at&T data, or 802.11 you ARE going to pay AT&T for
> > >> both data and voice...
>
> > > You can get an iPhone with any AT&T plan, actually, so you don't
> > > strictly need to have a data plan.
>
> > incorrect.
> >http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html
>
> Incorrect.http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/26plans.html
>
> "In addition, iPhone customers can choose from any of AT&T¹s standard
> service plans."

um, yes, you can choose a standard voice plan- and add $20 to it for
the required data plan... don't just get your info from press
releases dude...

from the og link i posted:
"If you're already an AT&T customer and want to keep your current
voice plan, you can just add an iPhone Data Plan with unlimited data
(email and web) and Visual Voicemail for just $20 per month."

from at&t's faq:
http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/iphone-faqs.jsp
Q. Do I need to switch to a different rate plan if I upgrade to
iPhone?
A. If you're an existing AT&T (formerly Cingular) wireless customer,
you just need to add an iPhone Data Plan. (This may replace your
current data plan. Your voice plan will stay the same) The iPhone Data
Plan gives you Visual Voicemail, as well as Unlimited Data-includes
both email and web-and texting, all for as little as $20. You'll add
an iPhone Data Plan during the activation process.

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp

In article <1183050982.894738.49040@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.c om>,
ed <news@atwistedweb.com> wrote:

> On Jun 28, 10:00 am, ZnU <z...@fake.invalid> wrote:
> > In article <iKIgi.27280$YL5.22...@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net> ,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "ed" <n...@no-atwistedweb-spam.com> wrote:
> > > "ZnU" <z...@fake.invalid> wrote in message
> > >news:znu-331534.23322227062007@individual.net...
> > > > In article <1182997559.208799.57...@o61g2000hsh.googlegroups. com>,
> > > > jerryeveretts <ifree...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> > Yep, ATT got tricked by Steve, so it's funny to see how bad ATT lost.
> >
> > > >> Really? I'll admit I don't know much about this deal, but I though you
> > > >> still had to pay AT&T a voice AND data plan for each iPhone, so
> > > >> whether you use the at&T data, or 802.11 you ARE going to pay AT&T for
> > > >> both data and voice...
> >
> > > > You can get an iPhone with any AT&T plan, actually, so you don't
> > > > strictly need to have a data plan.
> >
> > > incorrect.
> > >http://www.apple.com/iphone/easysetup/rateplans.html
> >
> > Incorrect.http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/06/26plans.html
> >
> > "In addition, iPhone customers can choose from any of AT&T¹s standard
> > service plans."
>
> um, yes, you can choose a standard voice plan- and add $20 to it for
> the required data plan... don't just get your info from press
> releases dude...
>
> from the og link i posted:
> "If you're already an AT&T customer and want to keep your current
> voice plan, you can just add an iPhone Data Plan with unlimited data
> (email and web) and Visual Voicemail for just $20 per month."
>
> from at&t's faq:
> http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/iphone-faqs.jsp
> Q. Do I need to switch to a different rate plan if I upgrade to
> iPhone?
> A. If you're an existing AT&T (formerly Cingular) wireless customer,
> you just need to add an iPhone Data Plan. (This may replace your
> current data plan. Your voice plan will stay the same) The iPhone Data
> Plan gives you Visual Voicemail, as well as Unlimited Data-includes
> both email and web-and texting, all for as little as $20. You'll add
> an iPhone Data Plan during the activation process.
>
> http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp

That's interesting. Given that the plans Apple lists basically *are*
standard AT&T plans with the iPhone data plan added, the wording of
Apple's press release is highly misleading.

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

balanco01@yahoo.com wrote in news:1183034546.812603.294380
@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

>> Apple owns all control over the iPhone, all control over the fast
>> portion of the network, only ATT can tie people into obsolete "out of
>> range of 802.11" / "minute plans" but DATA and everything else, Apple
>> controls.
>>
>
> Good. The cell phone companies here suck (in terms of freedom/
> features) compared to most
> of western Europe, it seems.
>

This is just NOT so. ATT controls, with their iPhone Terms of Use, all
aspects of data downloaded/uploaded to its system, not Apple or Stevie
Wonderboy. One must, of course, read the long document and, removing the
advertising rose glasses, read what it says in detail:
http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp
particularly that part that says:

"Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Data Service sessions may be conducted
only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and
(iii) corporate intranet access (including access to corporate email,
customer relationship management, sales force automation, and field
service automation applications). PROHIBITED USES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT
LIMITED TO, USING SERVICES: (I) WITH SERVER DEVICES OR WITH HOST COMPUTER
APPLICATIONS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WEB CAMERA POSTS OR
BROADCASTS, CONTINUOUS JPEG FILE TRANSFERS, AUTOMATIC DATA FEEDS,
TELEMETRY APPLICATIONS, PEER-TO-PEER (P2P) FILE SHARING, AUTOMATED
FUNCTIONS OR ANY OTHER MACHINE-TO-MACHINE APPLICATIONS; (II) AS
SUBSTITUTE OR BACKUP FOR PRIVATE LINES OR DEDICATED DATA CONNECTIONS;
(III) FOR VOICE OVER IP; (IV) IN CONJUNCTION WITH WWAN OR OTHER
APPLICATIONS OR DEVICES WHICH AGGREGATE USAGE FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES PRIOR
TO TRANSMISSION; (V) USING THE SERVICES FOR ANY ACTIVITY THAT ADVERSELY
AFFECTS THE ABILITY OF OTHER PEOPLE OR SYSTEMS TO USE EITHER THE SERVICES
OR OTHER PARTIES' INTERNET-BASED RESOURCES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO
EXCESSIVE CONSUMPTION OF NETWORK OR SYSTEM RESOURCES (WHETHER INTENTIONAL
OR UNINTENTIONAL) AND "DENIAL OF SERVICE" (DOS) ATTACKS AGAINST ANOTHER
NETWORK HOST OR INDIVIDUAL USER; OR (VI) INTERFERENCE WITH OR DISRUPTION
OF OTHER NETWORK USERS, NETWORK SERVICES OR NETWORK EQUIPMENT. EXCEPT FOR
CONTENT FORMATTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH AT&T'S CONTENT STANDARDS, UNLIMITED
PLANS CANNOT BE USED FOR UPLOADING, DOWNLOADING OR STREAMING OF VIDEO
CONTENT (E.G. MOVIES, TV), MUSIC OR GAMES. FURTHERMORE, UNLIMITED PLANS
(EXCEPT FOR DATACONNECT AND BLACKBERRY TETHERED) CANNOT BE USED FOR ANY
APPLICATIONS THAT TETHER THE DEVICE (THROUGH USE OF, INCLUDING WITHOUT
LIMITATION, CONNECTION KITS, OTHER PHONE/PDA-TO-COMPUTER ACCESSORIES,
BLUETOOTH® OR ANY OTHER WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY) TO LAPTOPS, PCS, OR OTHER
EQUIPMENT FOR ANY PURPOSE. Service is not intended to provide full-time
connections, and the Service may be discontinued after a significant
period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage. AT&T reserves
the right to (i) limit throughput or amount of data transferred, deny
Service and/or terminate Service, without notice, to anyone it believes
is using the Service in any manner prohibited above or whose usage
adversely impacts its network or service levels or hinders access to its
network and (ii) protect its network from harm, which may impact
legitimate data flows. You may not send solicitations to AT&T subscribers
without their consent. You may not use the Services other than as
intended by AT&T and applicable law. Plans are for individual, non-
commercial use only and are not for resale."

WEBPAGES - EMAIL ONLY for individual customers not associated with a
company intranet for business. There will be NO STREAMING, NO
DOWNLOADING, NO VoIP including Skype, NO video or audio webcams, and the
long list of things like tethered devices to laptops/pcs (sic) or "Other
Equipment", whatever that means. ATT also reserves the right to LIMIT
THROUGHPUT OR AMOUNT OF DATA TRANSFERRED. Read that 5GB to 10GB/month,
just like Verizon Wireless. Their system just couldn't supply TV-Radio-
Movies over EDGE to a bunch of iPhone customers. Remember: "AT&T Means
Business"....not individuals. Your downloading will be different from
Apple's or Job's...(c;

The hawkers, like USA Today, Cnet, etc., need to be really careful to not
promise them they're going to be watching Harry Potter over AT&T
Wireless, because they're NOT! The ad hype means nothing....this legal
webpage at ATT is Gospel....

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

rocxspam <nospam@xspamx.no> wrote in news:4683af9d$0$24789
$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> BTW, the 8gb model at $599, rounded to nearest 100 works out to $600
> (for whomever objected to that number ;-)

Where I live, it means $US643.93 with tax....(c;

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote
> balanco01@yahoo.com wrote in news:1183034546.812603.294380
> @a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com:
>
>>> Apple owns all control over the iPhone, all control over the fast
>>> portion of the network, only ATT can tie people into obsolete "out
>>> of range of 802.11" / "minute plans" but DATA and everything else,
>>> Apple controls.
>>>
>>
>> Good. The cell phone companies here suck (in terms of freedom/
>> features) compared to most
>> of western Europe, it seems.
>>
>
> This is just NOT so. ATT controls, with their iPhone Terms of Use,
> all aspects of data downloaded/uploaded to its system,

No it doesnt with what is done using wifi. ATT gets not say what so even on that.

> not Apple or Stevie Wonderboy. One must, of course, read the long document and,
> removing the advertising rose glasses, read what it says in detail:
> http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...hone-terms.jsp
> particularly that part that says:

> "Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Data Service sessions

Thats over their EDGE network, not using wifi.

> may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing;
> (ii) email; and (iii) corporate intranet access (including access to
> corporate email, customer relationship management, sales force
> automation, and field service automation applications). PROHIBITED
> USES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, USING SERVICES: (I) WITH SERVER
> DEVICES OR WITH HOST COMPUTER APPLICATIONS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT
> LIMITATION, WEB CAMERA POSTS OR BROADCASTS, CONTINUOUS JPEG FILE
> TRANSFERS, AUTOMATIC DATA FEEDS, TELEMETRY APPLICATIONS, PEER-TO-PEER
> (P2P) FILE SHARING, AUTOMATED FUNCTIONS OR ANY OTHER
> MACHINE-TO-MACHINE APPLICATIONS; (II) AS SUBSTITUTE OR BACKUP FOR
> PRIVATE LINES OR DEDICATED DATA CONNECTIONS; (III) FOR VOICE OVER IP;
> (IV) IN CONJUNCTION WITH WWAN OR OTHER APPLICATIONS OR DEVICES WHICH
> AGGREGATE USAGE FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES PRIOR TO TRANSMISSION; (V)
> USING THE SERVICES FOR ANY ACTIVITY THAT ADVERSELY AFFECTS THE
> ABILITY OF OTHER PEOPLE OR SYSTEMS TO USE EITHER THE SERVICES OR
> OTHER PARTIES' INTERNET-BASED RESOURCES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO
> EXCESSIVE CONSUMPTION OF NETWORK OR SYSTEM RESOURCES (WHETHER
> INTENTIONAL OR UNINTENTIONAL) AND "DENIAL OF SERVICE" (DOS) ATTACKS
> AGAINST ANOTHER NETWORK HOST OR INDIVIDUAL USER; OR (VI) INTERFERENCE
> WITH OR DISRUPTION OF OTHER NETWORK USERS, NETWORK SERVICES OR
> NETWORK EQUIPMENT. EXCEPT FOR CONTENT FORMATTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH
> AT&T'S CONTENT STANDARDS, UNLIMITED PLANS CANNOT BE USED FOR
> UPLOADING, DOWNLOADING OR STREAMING OF VIDEO CONTENT (E.G. MOVIES,
> TV), MUSIC OR GAMES. FURTHERMORE, UNLIMITED PLANS (EXCEPT FOR
> DATACONNECT AND BLACKBERRY TETHERED) CANNOT BE USED FOR ANY
> APPLICATIONS THAT TETHER THE DEVICE (THROUGH USE OF, INCLUDING
> WITHOUT LIMITATION, CONNECTION KITS, OTHER PHONE/PDA-TO-COMPUTER
> ACCESSORIES, BLUETOOTH® OR ANY OTHER WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY) TO LAPTOPS,
> PCS, OR OTHER EQUIPMENT FOR ANY PURPOSE. Service is not intended to
> provide full-time connections, and the Service may be discontinued
> after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of
> excessive usage. AT&T reserves the right to (i) limit throughput or
> amount of data transferred, deny Service and/or terminate Service,
> without notice, to anyone it believes is using the Service in any
> manner prohibited above or whose usage adversely impacts its network
> or service levels or hinders access to its network and (ii) protect
> its network from harm, which may impact legitimate data flows. You
> may not send solicitations to AT&T subscribers without their consent.
> You may not use the Services other than as intended by AT&T and
> applicable law. Plans are for individual, non- commercial use only
> and are not for resale."
>
> WEBPAGES - EMAIL ONLY for individual customers not associated with a
> company intranet for business. There will be NO STREAMING, NO
> DOWNLOADING, NO VoIP including Skype, NO video or audio webcams, and
> the long list of things like tethered devices to laptops/pcs (sic) or
> "Other Equipment", whatever that means. ATT also reserves the right
> to LIMIT THROUGHPUT OR AMOUNT OF DATA TRANSFERRED. Read that 5GB to
> 10GB/month, just like Verizon Wireless. Their system just couldn't
> supply TV-Radio- Movies over EDGE to a bunch of iPhone customers.
> Remember: "AT&T Means Business"....not individuals. Your
> downloading will be different from Apple's or Job's...(c;
>
> The hawkers, like USA Today, Cnet, etc., need to be really careful to
> not promise them they're going to be watching Harry Potter over AT&T
> Wireless, because they're NOT! The ad hype means nothing....this
> legal webpage at ATT is Gospel....

Pity its not as absolute as you claim at the top.

Larry wrote:
> rocxspam <nospam@xspamx.no> wrote in news:4683af9d$0$24789
> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>
>> BTW, the 8gb model at $599, rounded to nearest 100 works out to $600
>> (for whomever objected to that number ;-)
>
> Where I live, it means $US643.93 with tax....(c;
>
> Larry
Still, that is WITH a plan, right?

Oh well, not interested in a mini Macpod-phone on a crappy network
anyway. Why is this crossposted to the alt.cellular.verizon group
(where I found this topic)?


ROC

rocx <xroxspam@nospam.no> wrote in news:46846aa0$0$14955
$4c368faf@roadrunner.com:

> Why is this crossposted to the alt.cellular.verizon group
> (where I found this topic)?
>

It's where I found it, too. It was, as usual, done as a troll, but it is
relevant to any cellular/PCS newsgroups as it will change the whole
industry if Apple can make it stick in its current hobbled up form.

I've read some blogs about V2 and V3 having new features.

Very little has been said about "This iPhone is NOT UPGRADABLE" as I've
read in many places. Not only can't you change the battery pack, you
can't upgrade the firmware/features according to many reports I've seen.

Reminds me of BASIC in ROM...(c;


Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

Larry <noone@home.com> wrote
> rocx <xroxspam@nospam.no> wrote

>> Why is this crossposted to the alt.cellular.verizon group
>> (where I found this topic)?

> It's where I found it, too. It was, as usual, done as a troll, but it is
> relevant to any cellular/PCS newsgroups as it will change the whole
> industry if Apple can make it stick in its current hobbled up form.

I doubt it. Even the pure touch screen approach has been pretty
common from others long before the iphone ever showed up.

The most that might happen is that a few ideas might be seen
first with the iphone and be seen on other stuff later, but thats
been true with the whole industry for a long time now.

> I've read some blogs about V2 and V3 having new features.

> Very little has been said about "This iPhone is NOT UPGRADABLE" as
> I've read in many places. Not only can't you change the battery pack, you
> can't upgrade the firmware/features according to many reports I've seen.

I find that a bit hard to believe, particularly with faults in the original.

> Reminds me of BASIC in ROM...(c;

In article <Xns995DEE5A98F1noonehomecom@208.49.80.253>,
Larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> rocx <xroxspam@nospam.no> wrote in news:46846aa0$0$14955
> $4c368faf@roadrunner.com:
>
> > Why is this crossposted to the alt.cellular.verizon group
> > (where I found this topic)?
> >
>
> It's where I found it, too. It was, as usual, done as a troll, but it is
> relevant to any cellular/PCS newsgroups as it will change the whole
> industry if Apple can make it stick in its current hobbled up form.
>
> I've read some blogs about V2 and V3 having new features.
>
> Very little has been said about "This iPhone is NOT UPGRADABLE" as I've
> read in many places. Not only can't you change the battery pack, you
> can't upgrade the firmware/features according to many reports I've seen.
>
> Reminds me of BASIC in ROM...(c;

Huh? All the iPhone's software is going to be sitting in flash memory,
and I'm sure Apple will be able to upgrade it through iTunes as easily
as they upgrade iPods. Easy software upgradability is probably one of
Apple's big advantages here. Most other phone vendors have to go through
the carriers every time they want to push out an upgrade.

Anyway, Apple has explicitly said they're planning to push out software
upgrades for the iPhone. They say this has some accounting implications,
so they mentioned it a while back as part of their financial disclosures.

--
"That's George Washington, the first president, of course. The interesting thing
about him is that I read three--three or four books about him last year. Isn't
that interesting?"
- George W. Bush to reporter Kai Diekmann, May 5, 2006

"SoCalCommie" <nospam@nowhere.non> wrote:

> The article has some mis-information. AT&T DOES have 3G (and 3.5G)
> service. Crapple's iPhone just doesn't support it (EDGE only).

but in only 35 cities, instead of 14,000 for 2.5G - do the math and
THINK.

Nobody is going to want G anything anyway, so not sure why this is even
a point.

12 hours to go and T Mobile runs their first TV AD that says, the FIRST
mobile phone to work over WiFi!

OH MY GOD THAT IS FUNNY.

They are scared since they KNOW WiFi is how all phones will work within
5 years, for FREE!

Bye bye Cell Companies...

The computer industry is going to STEAM ROLL YOU starting at 6pm local
time.

rocx <xroxspam@nospam.no> wrote:

> > Where I live, it means $US643.93 with tax....(c;
> >
> > Larry
> Still, that is WITH a plan, right?
>
> Oh well, not interested in a mini Macpod-phone on a crappy network
> anyway. Why is this crossposted to the alt.cellular.verizon group
> (where I found this topic)?

you only use the ATT data network if you are desperate, 99% of the time
you are going to use a regular 802.11 network.

Oxford <colalovesmacs@mac.com> wrote
> SoCalCommie <nospam@nowhere.non> wrote

>> The article has some mis-information. AT&T DOES have 3G (and 3.5G)
>> service. Crapple's iPhone just doesn't support it (EDGE only).

> but in only 35 cities, instead of 14,000 for 2.5G - do the math and THINK.

> Nobody is going to want G anything anyway,
> so not sure why this is even a point.

> 12 hours to go and T Mobile runs their first TV AD that says,
> the FIRST mobile phone to work over WiFi!

Pity that would be a lie, so it aint gunna happen.

> OH MY GOD THAT IS FUNNY.

> They are scared since they KNOW WiFi is how
> all phones will work within 5 years, for FREE!

Pity what the telcos will do about calls that land in their systems.

> Bye bye Cell Companies...

Only in your pathetic little drug crazed fantasyland.

> The computer industry is going to STEAM ROLL YOU starting at 6pm local time.

Only in your pathetic little drug crazed fantasyland.

SoCalCommie wrote:
> No. You'll use the AT&T data network if you're IN MOTION...
>
> SoCalCommie
>
> "The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot
> is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalist is proud
> of his country no matter what it does; the first attitude creates a
> feeling of responsibility, but the second a feeling of blind arrogance
> that leads to war." - Sidney J. Harris
>
> "none" <a@b.com> wrote in message
> news:a-A5C9DA.23370728062007@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net...
>> you only use the ATT data network if you are desperate, 99% of the
> time
>> you are going to use a regular 802.11 network.
>
>
Anyway, I was referring to the voice network. Thought ATT&T/Cingular
was still behind Verizon's (my wife's family in Northern Virginia seems
to have more trouble on their Cinglular phones making calls when away
from the "beaten path" vs our Verizon phones). Any changes with that
situation?

ROC

No. You'll use the AT&T data network if you're IN MOTION...

SoCalCommie

"The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot
is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalist is proud
of his country no matter what it does; the first attitude creates a
feeling of responsibility, but the second a feeling of blind arrogance
that leads to war." - Sidney J. Harris

"none" <a@b.com> wrote in message
news:a-A5C9DA.23370728062007@mpls-nnrp-02.inet.qwest.net...
> you only use the ATT data network if you are desperate, 99% of the
time
> you are going to use a regular 802.11 network.