simple GPS lat/lon display?

If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
to be used later by standard GPS units.
--
----------------------------------
"If everything seems to be going well,
you have obviously overlooked something." - Steven Wright

"P.Schuman" <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote in news:AGCIj.23247
$0o7.3203@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net:

> If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
> can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
> I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
> to be used later by standard GPS units.

SURELY YOU JEST!!

SELLphone companies letting you see data from what you bought WITHOUT
PAYING SELLPHONE COMPANIES?!!

BITE YOUR TONGUE.....and open your wallet!

(in my best British accent) NEVAH!........(c;

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
<pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:

>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>to be used later by standard GPS units.

GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....

D <noemail@respondhere.com> amazed us all with the following in
news:e9e8v39asf0urbjaphv3tr98lb12b56on0@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
> <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>
>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
>
> GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
> triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>

Actually, some phones do have GPS and do not rely on triangulation.

And your post highlights something that I find interesting. GPS is the
acronym for "Global Positioning Satellite." Therefore, in order to offer
GPS as a service, a unit would need to communicate with satellites.
Anything else is simply a locator service, and is advertised as such.

The Bob wrote:
> D <noemail@respondhere.com> amazed us all with the following in
> news:e9e8v39asf0urbjaphv3tr98lb12b56on0@4ax.com:
>
>
>>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>><pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
>>
>>GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
>>triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>>
>
>
> Actually, some phones do have GPS and do not rely on triangulation.
>
> And your post highlights something that I find interesting. GPS is the
> acronym for "Global Positioning Satellite." Therefore, in order to offer
> GPS as a service, a unit would need to communicate with satellites.
> Anything else is simply a locator service, and is advertised as such.

Communicate is a slight overstatement. A GPS device needs only to
receive signals broadcast from the NavStar (GPS) satellites. Four
satellites are needed to solve four equations in four unknowns:
latitude, longitude, elevation and time. Even four or five years ago, a
GPS receiver was about as big as a book of matches!

D wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
> <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>
>> If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>> can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>> I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>> to be used later by standard GPS units.
>
> GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
> triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....

Actually some do use that as part of the solution.

The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
they use.

> And your post highlights something that I find interesting. GPS is the
> acronym for "Global Positioning Satellite." Therefore, in order to offer
> GPS as a service, a unit would need to communicate with satellites.

NO, NO, NO! GPS is a receive-only system. Your unit is listening for
multiple satellites. Based on what it 'hears' and the timing, it
triangulates a location.

At no point, at no time, NOT EVER, do any of the GPS units transmit back to
the satellites. THINK ABOUT IT. The power to get a signal back to orbit is
non-trivial. That and managing the traffic from a bajillion different GPS
unit would be nigh-on impossible.

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
<pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote in
<AGCIj.23247$0o7.3203@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net >:

>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>to be used later by standard GPS units.

What phone? What carrier?
--
Best regards, FAQ FOR AT&T MOBILITY (CINGULAR WIRELESS):
John Navas <http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/AT&T_Mobility_FAQ>

The definition of GPS is "Global Positioning System" NOT "Global Positioning
Satellite".

Craig

"The Bob" <nospam@bob.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9A74D377F2FA3bob@216.196.97.136...
>D <noemail@respondhere.com> amazed us all with the following in
> news:e9e8v39asf0urbjaphv3tr98lb12b56on0@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>> <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>>
>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
>>
>> GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
>> triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>>
>
> Actually, some phones do have GPS and do not rely on triangulation.
>
> And your post highlights something that I find interesting. GPS is the
> acronym for "Global Positioning Satellite." Therefore, in order to offer
> GPS as a service, a unit would need to communicate with satellites.
> Anything else is simply a locator service, and is advertised as such.

At 03 Apr 2008 10:19:23 -0700 CRAIG wrote:
> The definition of GPS is "Global Positioning System" NOT "Global
Positioning
> Satellite".


Then Verizon' and Sprint's systems still fail the definition, since, unlike
satellite-based systems, they're not available globally! ;-)

"Bill Kearney" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> amazed us all with the following
in news:NYidnfsjSbBzQWnanZ2dnUVZ_vShnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

>> And your post highlights something that I find interesting. GPS is
>> the acronym for "Global Positioning Satellite." Therefore, in order
>> to offer GPS as a service, a unit would need to communicate with
>> satellites.
>
> NO, NO, NO! GPS is a receive-only system. Your unit is listening for
> multiple satellites. Based on what it 'hears' and the timing, it
> triangulates a location.
>
> At no point, at no time, NOT EVER, do any of the GPS units transmit
> back to the satellites. THINK ABOUT IT. The power to get a signal
> back to orbit is non-trivial. That and managing the traffic from a
> bajillion different GPS unit would be nigh-on impossible.
>
>

So by listening to the satellites, communication is happening.

Thanks for nothing.

George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>D wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>> <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>> can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>>> I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>> to be used later by standard GPS units.
>>
>> GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
>> triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>
>Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
>
>The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
>cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
>they use.

And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any carrier.
Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?

"P.Schuman" <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote in message
news:AGCIj.23247$0o7.3203@newssvr13.news.prodigy.n et...
> If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
> can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
> I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
> to be used later by standard GPS units.
> --
> ----------------------------------
> "If everything seems to be going well,
> you have obviously overlooked something." - Steven Wright

Crossposting left in.

If you have a WM6 PPC/phone with a built in GPS like the Sprint Mogul has
then you mght find something with a "simple GPS lat/long display" here:
http://pocketpcfreewares.com/en/inde...cat=30&sortby=

Jack Hamilton wrote:

> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>D wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>>><pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
>>>
>>>GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
>>>triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>>
>>Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
>>
>>The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
>>cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
>>they use.
>
>
> And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any carrier.
> Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
> lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?


The HP iPaq hw65**/67**/69** GPS radio outputs NMEA 0183 Geographic
Latitude and Longitude (GLL) format coordinates, independent of carrier.

Jack Hamilton wrote:
> George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
>> D wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>>> <pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>>> can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?
>>>> I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>>> to be used later by standard GPS units.
>>> GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
>>> triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>> Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
>>
>> The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
>> cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
>> they use.
>
> And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any carrier.
> Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
> lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?

Its way to vague of a question since there are multiple schemes and
multiple devices with different feature sets.

Roger 2008 wrote:
> "News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
> news:y4GdnVf5xo6Yk2vanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>>
>>Jack Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>>>>><pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>>>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application
>
> ?
>
>>>>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>>>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
>>>>>
>>>>>GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
>>>>>triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>>>>
>>>>Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
>>>>
>>>>The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
>>>>cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
>>>>they use.
>>>
>>>
>>>And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any carrier.
>>>Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
>>>lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?
>>
>>
>>The HP iPaq hw65**/67**/69** GPS radio outputs NMEA 0183 Geographic
>>Latitude and Longitude (GLL) format coordinates, independent of carrier.
>
>
>
> I believe that pretty much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183"
> protocol.


But they're not all cell phones, are they?

"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
news:y4GdnVf5xo6Yk2vanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>
> Jack Hamilton wrote:
>
> > George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>D wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
> >>><pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
> >>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application
?
> >>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
> >>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
> >>>
> >>>GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather they
> >>>triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
> >>
> >>Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
> >>
> >>The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
> >>cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
> >>they use.
> >
> >
> > And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any carrier.
> > Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
> > lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?
>
>
> The HP iPaq hw65**/67**/69** GPS radio outputs NMEA 0183 Geographic
> Latitude and Longitude (GLL) format coordinates, independent of carrier.


I believe that pretty much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183"
protocol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMEA_0183

Even the Garmin Mobile 10, a BT GPS uses "NMEA 0183."

More info on the "Protocol" used by the "Garmin Mobile 10":
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/store/as...ile10_0706.pdf

But the Garmin Mobile 10 will change it's protocol when used with Garmin
Mobile XT software and it takes a power cycle to return it to using "NMEA
0183." BTW I learned that from a tech at Garmin.

That means that other programs that expect "NMEA 0183" like "Google Maps for
Mobile" will not work with the "Garmin Mobile 10" after using it with the
"Garmin Mobile XT" software until you cycle power on the device.

Roger 2008 wrote:
> "News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
> news:rq-dnaFKsefbuGvanZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
>>
>>Roger 2008 wrote:
>>
>>>"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
>>>news:y4GdnVf5xo6Yk2vanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@speakeasy .net...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jack Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>D wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
>>>>>>><pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
>>>>>>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map
>
> application
>
>>>?
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>>>>>>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather
>
> they
>
>>>>>>>triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
>>>>>>cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
>>>>>>they use.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any carrier.
>>>>>Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
>>>>>lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The HP iPaq hw65**/67**/69** GPS radio outputs NMEA 0183 Geographic
>>>>Latitude and Longitude (GLL) format coordinates, independent of carrier.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I believe that pretty much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183"
>>>protocol.
>>
>>
>>But they're not all cell phones, are they?
>
>
>
> If you know of a "cell phone" that takes "map applications" like the
> original poster was asking about and does *not* use "NMEA 0183" protocol
> then let me know about it.
>
> Until then I will repeat myself as having posted: "I believe that pretty
> much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183" protocol.
>
> TNX
>
>


Sure, repeat at will. Regardless of context.

The question, cross-posted to numerous cell phone provider newsgroups,
about E911 a cell phone location matter, was:

"Does GPS return lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?"

The reply was yes, GPS does return GLL. Further, that on the hw-series
iPaq PocketPC GSM phones, it will do so, even without a SIM installed.

"TNX", yourself. Check that DST problem, too.

"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
news:rq-dnaFKsefbuGvanZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>
>
> Roger 2008 wrote:
> > "News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
> > news:y4GdnVf5xo6Yk2vanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> >
> >>
> >>Jack Hamilton wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>D wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
> >>>>><pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
> >>>>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map
application
> >
> > ?
> >
> >>>>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
> >>>>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather
they
> >>>>>triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
> >>>>
> >>>>Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
> >>>>
> >>>>The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
> >>>>cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what phone
> >>>>they use.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any carrier.
> >>>Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
> >>>lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?
> >>
> >>
> >>The HP iPaq hw65**/67**/69** GPS radio outputs NMEA 0183 Geographic
> >>Latitude and Longitude (GLL) format coordinates, independent of carrier.
> >
> >
> >
> > I believe that pretty much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183"
> > protocol.
>
>
> But they're not all cell phones, are they?


If you know of a "cell phone" that takes "map applications" like the
original poster was asking about and does *not* use "NMEA 0183" protocol
then let me know about it.

Until then I will repeat myself as having posted: "I believe that pretty
much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183" protocol.

TNX

"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
news:kNidnciiG_J1oGvanZ2dnUVZ_tajnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>
>
> Roger 2008 wrote:
> > "News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
> > news:rq-dnaFKsefbuGvanZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> >
> >>
> >>Roger 2008 wrote:
> >>
> >>>"News" <News@Group.name> wrote in message
> >>>news:y4GdnVf5xo6Yk2vanZ2dnUVZ_o3inZ2d@speakeasy .net...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Jack Hamilton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>D wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 03:01:52 GMT, "P.Schuman"
> >>>>>>><pschuman_no_spam_me@interserv.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>If I enable the GPS location ON vs just have E911
> >>>>>>>>can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map
> >
> > application
> >
> >>>?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
> >>>>>>>>to be used later by standard GPS units.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>GPS on cell phones is not based on the satalites in orbit, rather
> >
> > they
> >
> >>>>>>>triangulate off the towers. It isn't a true GPS....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Actually some do use that as part of the solution.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>The problem with this question is that the OP cross posted to every
> >>>>>>cellular group without specifying what carrier they use and what
phone
> >>>>>>they use.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>And yet no one has answered the question for any phone or any
carrier.
> >>>>>Perhaps someone will have to write a custom program. Does GPS return
> >>>>>lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>The HP iPaq hw65**/67**/69** GPS radio outputs NMEA 0183 Geographic
> >>>>Latitude and Longitude (GLL) format coordinates, independent of
carrier.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I believe that pretty much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183"
> >>>protocol.
> >>
> >>
> >>But they're not all cell phones, are they?
> >
> >
> >
> > If you know of a "cell phone" that takes "map applications" like the
> > original poster was asking about and does *not* use "NMEA 0183" protocol
> > then let me know about it.
> >
> > Until then I will repeat myself as having posted: "I believe that pretty
> > much every GPS out there uses the "NMEA 0183" protocol.
> >
> > TNX
> >
> >
>
>
> Sure, repeat at will. Regardless of context.
>
> The question, cross-posted to numerous cell phone provider newsgroups,
> about E911 a cell phone location matter, was:
>
> "Does GPS return lat/lon, or does it use some other location scheme?"

Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
asked:
"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"

The answer to that is "yes" and it is proven by the amount of freeware
available for PPC/phones that turn GPS data into lat/long.

The original poster also stated:
"I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
to be used later by standard GPS units."

It sounded like he was interested in "geocaching." That is basically just a
way to say where something is via long/lat and there are all sorts of sites
about "geocaching" on the internet.

FYI I'm not really interested in taking up a debate about secondary
questions on this thread that doesn't answer the original poster since I too
am looking for the same thing the original poster is.

TNX

>Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
>asked:
>"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"

For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
and that may cost money.

>The answer to that is "yes" and it is proven by the amount of freeware
>available for PPC/phones that turn GPS data into lat/long.

Some phones (and PDAs) have a real GPS that listens to satellites
built in. I suspect that includes a Nextel phone I was testing a
few years ago: it never managed to talk to the satellites because
of one of (a) office building roof, (b) parking garage roof, or (c)
car roof was in the way most of the time, and the coordinates didn't
update for several days. That phone permitted me to display the
coordinates on the screen, along with some info about how many
satellites were visible. This seems to be what the OP is looking
for. I doubt that particular phone model is still sold, but
user-visible GPS is still likely available on some phones.

On my current phone (Motorola RAZR V3 with T-Mobile), I don't think
the feature is available. This phone doesn't have a lot of memory
for apps or maps, either (about 3 meg).

The standard communication protocol for GPS information is NMEA
0183. It specifies a record format, which might not be used in,
say, a Java application running ON the phone (there is more likely
to be a Java call like GetMyGPSCoords() which returns lat/long,
altitude, and time, and maybe speed and compass heading and some
indication whether it's a good fix. If, internally, there is a GPS
chip delivering a NMEA 0183 data stream, it may be available in a
friendlier format), and the data contained in individual fields,
which among other things includes lat/long in degrees, minutes, and
fractions of minutes.

"Conversion" to lat/long is unlikely to be much of an issue, since
that's how it's delivered, unless you like your lat/long as degrees
and fractions of degrees, or degrees, minutes, seconds, and fractions
of seconds, and in this case, it's fairly simple and straightforward
math.

>The original poster also stated:
>"I just want to be able to log specific GPS coords
>to be used later by standard GPS units."
>
>It sounded like he was interested in "geocaching." That is basically just a
>way to say where something is via long/lat and there are all sorts of sites
>about "geocaching" on the internet.

It can also be useful for letting a tow truck find you when your
car is broken down at night along a highway with few visible
landmarks, or trying to get the whole family back together at an
amusement park. But yes, I'll agree with an interpretation that
the OP was interested in geocaching.

>FYI I'm not really interested in taking up a debate about secondary
>questions on this thread that doesn't answer the original poster since I too
>am looking for the same thing the original poster is.

Gordon Burditt wrote:
>>Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
>>asked:
>>"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"
>
>
> For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
> actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
> are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
> Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
> your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
> and that may cost money.
>
>
>>The answer to that is "yes" and it is proven by the amount of freeware
>>available for PPC/phones that turn GPS data into lat/long.
>
>
> Some phones (and PDAs) have a real GPS that listens to satellites
> built in. I suspect that includes a Nextel phone I was testing a
> few years ago: it never managed to talk to the satellites because
> of one of (a) office building roof, (b) parking garage roof, or (c)
> car roof was in the way most of the time, and the coordinates didn't
> update for several days. That phone permitted me to display the
> coordinates on the screen, along with some info about how many
> satellites were visible. This seems to be what the OP is looking
> for. I doubt that particular phone model is still sold, but
> user-visible GPS is still likely available on some phones.
>
> On my current phone (Motorola RAZR V3 with T-Mobile), I don't think
> the feature is available. This phone doesn't have a lot of memory
> for apps or maps, either (about 3 meg).
>

My Verizon Wireless RAZR V3m claims GPS capability. I don't think you
get displays of satellite positions or latitude and longitude but you
can get software for it that will prompt to "turn left at the next
intersection". Like everything else, I think the software is an extra
cost item.

The RAZR V3m allows you to install a "Micro SD Trans Flash" memory card
which you can use to store photographs, audio recordings, etc, etc. You
can't, AFAIK, store them there directly but you can move then to the
Trans Flash card. I have a 1GB card in my phone right now. I think I
paid something like $15 US for it. The other nice thing is that you can
get a USB "reader" for these cards which allows you to remove the card
from your camera, plug it into the adapter, the adapter into your
computer and you can copy pictures or audio recordings into your
computer. If you are so inclined you could probably copy music from
your computer to the trans flash card, install the card in your phone
and use it to play the music.

While dumping the
alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.ce llular.cingular,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws
bit bucket, I heard Gordon Burditt say:

>>Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
>>asked:
>>"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"
>
> For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
> actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
> are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
> Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
> your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
> and that may cost money.
>
>>The answer to that is "yes" and it is proven by the amount of freeware
>>available for PPC/phones that turn GPS data into lat/long.
>
> Some phones (and PDAs) have a real GPS that listens to satellites
> built in. I suspect that includes a Nextel phone I was testing a
> few years ago: it never managed to talk to the satellites because
> of one of (a) office building roof, (b) parking garage roof, or (c)
> car roof was in the way most of the time, and the coordinates didn't
> update for several days. That phone permitted me to display the
> coordinates on the screen, along with some info about how many
> satellites were visible. This seems to be what the OP is looking
> for. I doubt that particular phone model is still sold, but
> user-visible GPS is still likely available on some phones.
>
> On my current phone (Motorola RAZR V3 with T-Mobile), I don't think
> the feature is available. This phone doesn't have a lot of memory
> for apps or maps, either (about 3 meg).
[...]

My Sprint RAZR V3m does have the full GPS via satellite capability that
the earlier V3 models were lacking. It works perfectly with the free
"Mobile GMaps" utility...

--
Dutch

While dumping the
alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.ce llular.cingular,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws
bit bucket, I heard Richard B. Gilbert say:

> Gordon Burditt wrote:
>>>Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
>>>asked:
>>>"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"
>>
>> For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
>> actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
>> are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
>> Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
>> your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
>> and that may cost money.
>>
>>>The answer to that is "yes" and it is proven by the amount of freeware
>>>available for PPC/phones that turn GPS data into lat/long.
>>
>> Some phones (and PDAs) have a real GPS that listens to satellites
>> built in. I suspect that includes a Nextel phone I was testing a
>> few years ago: it never managed to talk to the satellites because
>> of one of (a) office building roof, (b) parking garage roof, or (c)
>> car roof was in the way most of the time, and the coordinates didn't
>> update for several days. That phone permitted me to display the
>> coordinates on the screen, along with some info about how many
>> satellites were visible. This seems to be what the OP is looking
>> for. I doubt that particular phone model is still sold, but
>> user-visible GPS is still likely available on some phones.
>>
>> On my current phone (Motorola RAZR V3 with T-Mobile), I don't think
>> the feature is available. This phone doesn't have a lot of memory
>> for apps or maps, either (about 3 meg).
>>
>
> My Verizon Wireless RAZR V3m claims GPS capability. I don't think you
> get displays of satellite positions or latitude and longitude but you
> can get software for it that will prompt to "turn left at the next
> intersection". Like everything else, I think the software is an extra
> cost item.
>
> The RAZR V3m allows you to install a "Micro SD Trans Flash" memory card
> which you can use to store photographs, audio recordings, etc, etc. You
> can't, AFAIK, store them there directly but you can move then to the
> Trans Flash card. I have a 1GB card in my phone right now. I think I
> paid something like $15 US for it. The other nice thing is that you can
> get a USB "reader" for these cards which allows you to remove the card
> from your camera, plug it into the adapter, the adapter into your
> computer and you can copy pictures or audio recordings into your
> computer. If you are so inclined you could probably copy music from
> your computer to the trans flash card, install the card in your phone
> and use it to play the music.

I regularly move photos, mp3's, etc, back and forth to my V3m's flash
card without removing it. Depending on which computer I'm using, I do it
with either BlueTooth or a USB cable. The free "BitPIM" utility is also
handy for working with files for the phone...

--
Dutch

Dutch wrote:
> While dumping the
> alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.ce llular.cingular,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws
> bit bucket, I heard Richard B. Gilbert say:
>
>
>>Gordon Burditt wrote:
>>
>>>>Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
>>>>asked:
>>>>"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"
>>>
>>>For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
>>>actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
>>>are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
>>>Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
>>>your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
>>>and that may cost money.
>>>
>>>
>>>>The answer to that is "yes" and it is proven by the amount of freeware
>>>>available for PPC/phones that turn GPS data into lat/long.
>>>
>>>Some phones (and PDAs) have a real GPS that listens to satellites
>>>built in. I suspect that includes a Nextel phone I was testing a
>>>few years ago: it never managed to talk to the satellites because
>>>of one of (a) office building roof, (b) parking garage roof, or (c)
>>>car roof was in the way most of the time, and the coordinates didn't
>>>update for several days. That phone permitted me to display the
>>>coordinates on the screen, along with some info about how many
>>>satellites were visible. This seems to be what the OP is looking
>>>for. I doubt that particular phone model is still sold, but
>>>user-visible GPS is still likely available on some phones.
>>>
>>>On my current phone (Motorola RAZR V3 with T-Mobile), I don't think
>>>the feature is available. This phone doesn't have a lot of memory
>>>for apps or maps, either (about 3 meg).
>>>
>>
>>My Verizon Wireless RAZR V3m claims GPS capability. I don't think you
>>get displays of satellite positions or latitude and longitude but you
>>can get software for it that will prompt to "turn left at the next
>>intersection". Like everything else, I think the software is an extra
>>cost item.
>>
>>The RAZR V3m allows you to install a "Micro SD Trans Flash" memory card
>>which you can use to store photographs, audio recordings, etc, etc. You
>>can't, AFAIK, store them there directly but you can move then to the
>>Trans Flash card. I have a 1GB card in my phone right now. I think I
>>paid something like $15 US for it. The other nice thing is that you can
>>get a USB "reader" for these cards which allows you to remove the card
>>from your camera, plug it into the adapter, the adapter into your
>>computer and you can copy pictures or audio recordings into your
>>computer. If you are so inclined you could probably copy music from
>>your computer to the trans flash card, install the card in your phone
>>and use it to play the music.
>
>
> I regularly move photos, mp3's, etc, back and forth to my V3m's flash
> card without removing it. Depending on which computer I'm using, I do it
> with either BlueTooth or a USB cable. The free "BitPIM" utility is also
> handy for working with files for the phone...
>

Do you have a "Verizon Wireless" phone? The RAZR V3, as manufactured,
has the capability but Verizon Wireless disables it. You can reenable
it at the cost of voiding your warranty!

I bought the phone in order to be able to call for help if I happened to
need the police, fire department, an ambulance, a tow truck, etc. Once
I got my contact list into the phone using Motorola Phone Tools, I was
pretty much done. The camera, ability to play music, games, video are
of little or no interest. I took one "test" picture, managed to
transfer it to my computer via the trans flash card, and then deleted
the file.

While dumping the
alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.ce llular.cingular,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws
bit bucket, I heard Richard B. Gilbert say:

> Dutch wrote:
>> While dumping the
>> alt.cellular.verizon,alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.ce llular.cingular,alt.cellular.t-mobile,alt.cellular.attws
>> bit bucket, I heard Richard B. Gilbert say:
>>
[...]
>>>>Some phones (and PDAs) have a real GPS that listens to satellites
>>>>built in. I suspect that includes a Nextel phone I was testing a
>>>>few years ago: it never managed to talk to the satellites because
>>>>of one of (a) office building roof, (b) parking garage roof, or (c)
>>>>car roof was in the way most of the time, and the coordinates didn't
>>>>update for several days. That phone permitted me to display the
>>>>coordinates on the screen, along with some info about how many
>>>>satellites were visible. This seems to be what the OP is looking
>>>>for. I doubt that particular phone model is still sold, but
>>>>user-visible GPS is still likely available on some phones.
>>>>
>>>>On my current phone (Motorola RAZR V3 with T-Mobile), I don't think
>>>>the feature is available. This phone doesn't have a lot of memory
>>>>for apps or maps, either (about 3 meg).
>>>>
>>>
>>>My Verizon Wireless RAZR V3m claims GPS capability. I don't think you
>>>get displays of satellite positions or latitude and longitude but you
>>>can get software for it that will prompt to "turn left at the next
>>>intersection". Like everything else, I think the software is an extra
>>>cost item.
>>>
>>>The RAZR V3m allows you to install a "Micro SD Trans Flash" memory card
>>>which you can use to store photographs, audio recordings, etc, etc. You
>>>can't, AFAIK, store them there directly but you can move then to the
>>>Trans Flash card. I have a 1GB card in my phone right now. I think I
>>>paid something like $15 US for it. The other nice thing is that you can
>>>get a USB "reader" for these cards which allows you to remove the card
>>>from your camera, plug it into the adapter, the adapter into your
>>>computer and you can copy pictures or audio recordings into your
>>>computer. If you are so inclined you could probably copy music from
>>>your computer to the trans flash card, install the card in your phone
>>>and use it to play the music.
>>
>> I regularly move photos, mp3's, etc, back and forth to my V3m's flash
>> card without removing it. Depending on which computer I'm using, I do it
>> with either BlueTooth or a USB cable. The free "BitPIM" utility is also
>> handy for working with files for the phone...
>
> Do you have a "Verizon Wireless" phone? The RAZR V3, as manufactured,
> has the capability but Verizon Wireless disables it. You can reenable
> it at the cost of voiding your warranty!
>
> I bought the phone in order to be able to call for help if I happened to
> need the police, fire department, an ambulance, a tow truck, etc. Once
> I got my contact list into the phone using Motorola Phone Tools, I was
> pretty much done. The camera, ability to play music, games, video are
> of little or no interest. I took one "test" picture, managed to
> transfer it to my computer via the trans flash card, and then deleted
> the file.

Nope, I have Sprint's version of the V3m. Sorry about that, I forgot
this was cross-posting to multiple groups.

--
Dutch

"Gordon Burditt" <gordonb.sh6xy@burditt.org> wrote in message
news:XrOdnYKg7an-52vanZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@internetamerica...
> >Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
> >asked:
> >"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"
>
> For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
> actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
> are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
> Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
> your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
> and that may cost money.

Oh yeah, now that you mention it. My first camera phone called it GPS but
when you read further about it, it was just using cell phone towers.

BTW I have met a person with an iPHONE that thinks his phone has GPS and he
even showed me "Google Maps for Mobile" on it.

I thought he had a messed up GPS reading because it had us way across the
street and then I learned later the iPHONE uses cell phone towers for an
approximate location on "Google Maps for Mobile."

Roger 2008 wrote:
> "Gordon Burditt" <gordonb.sh6xy@burditt.org> wrote in message
> news:XrOdnYKg7an-52vanZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@internetamerica...
>
>>>Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
>>>asked:
>>>"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"
>>
>>For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
>>actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
>>are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
>>Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
>>your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
>>and that may cost money.
>
>
> Oh yeah, now that you mention it. My first camera phone called it GPS but
> when you read further about it, it was just using cell phone towers.
>
> BTW I have met a person with an iPHONE that thinks his phone has GPS and he
> even showed me "Google Maps for Mobile" on it.
>
> I thought he had a messed up GPS reading because it had us way across the
> street and then I learned later the iPHONE uses cell phone towers for an
> approximate location on "Google Maps for Mobile."
>
>

GPS, or at least the civilian version of it, is only accurate to within
about 300 feet or 100 meters. I once did a "site survey" using a
Motorola M12+T GPS timing receiver. The software I used plotted
something like 10,000 position readings on the map. The result was a
strip about 10 meters wide and 100 meters long and oriented ENE-SSW. My
antenna was more or less in the middle of this mess.

The military uses a different set of signals from the same satellite and
gets accurracy good enough for weapons targeting. This level of GPS is
available only to the military and certain defense contractors. Us
lowly civilians can't get it.

As far as I know, a cell phone tower has no means of determining the
direction your signal is coming from.

On Fri, 04 Apr 2008 21:12:28 -0400, "Richard B. Gilbert"
<rgilbert88@comcast.net> wrote:

>Roger 2008 wrote:
>> "Gordon Burditt" <gordonb.sh6xy@burditt.org> wrote in message
>> news:XrOdnYKg7an-52vanZ2dnUVZ_vOlnZ2d@internetamerica...
>>
>>>>Please do not forget who the original poster was and his questions: He
>>>>asked:
>>>>"can I display my own LAT/LON values somehow without a map application ?"
>>>
>>>For some cell phone implementation of "GPS" (this one doesn't involve
>>>actual satellites talking to your phone), your position coordinates
>>>are present at the cell towers and somewhere in the offices of Big
>>>Brother, but not on your cell phone. If a map application can get
>>>your position at all, it has to ask your cell provider to send it,
>>>and that may cost money.
>>
>>
>> Oh yeah, now that you mention it. My first camera phone called it GPS but
>> when you read further about it, it was just using cell phone towers.
>>
>> BTW I have met a person with an iPHONE