> What does "unlocked" actually mean and if you get one can you use
> it on the VZ network?
Unlocked means a GSM cellphone that is not tied to a specific carrier
and can be moved to another carrier by just replacing the SIM card.
CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify the
network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able to be moved
to another carrier, some carriers will allow it, some won't.
VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty meaningless.
>"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What does "unlocked" actually mean and if you get one can you use
>> it on the VZ network?
>
>Unlocked means a GSM cellphone that is not tied to a specific carrier
>and can be moved to another carrier by just replacing the SIM card.
>
>CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify the
>network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able to be moved
>to another carrier, some carriers will allow it, some won't.
>
>VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty meaningless.
Can cell phones not approved by VZW be used on its network? How can
one find out these things?
"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:xn0gbvdcfhqvtx009@reader.albasani.net...
> XS11E wrote:
>
>>"badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What does "unlocked" actually mean and if you get one can you use
>>> it on the VZ network?
>>
>>Unlocked means a GSM cellphone that is not tied to a specific carrier
>>and can be moved to another carrier by just replacing the SIM card.
>>
>>CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify the
>>network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able to be moved
>>to another carrier, some carriers will allow it, some won't.
>>
>>VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty meaningless.
>
> Can cell phones not approved by VZW be used on its network? How can
> one find out these things?
By asking Verizon? Verizon seems to allow any device that's
"compatible" with its network and won't "harm" it. (There was one Motorola
phone sold by a now defunct prepaid service provider called Amp'd, that had
a firmware bug that caused it to tie up a data channel constantly even when
not transmitting or receiving data- Verizon "banned" those- the Amp'd Mobile
Motorola E816, IIRC, from their network. The only such "forbidden" phone
I'm aware of.) Loosely translated, they'll allow non-Verizon phones that
are the same make and model of a "proven" Verizon phone, so, for example, an
Alltel Motorola RAZR can be activated, since Verizon also offered the RAZR.
Alltel phones are generally a safe bet, while most Sprint phones aren't-
while they're "compatible," many Sprint phones have their settings "locked"
to prevent Verizon settings from being easily downloaded to the phone. They
can manually be configured by hooking them to a PC and running software to
force Verizon settings into them, but most people just ignore them and use
Verizon, Alltel or US Cellular models.
Like with most wireless carriers, Verizon will tell you you're on your own
as far as tech support goes if you use a device they didn't sell, however-
Verizon adds custom menus and software to their phones, your your particular
phone might have a wildly different UI than the "identical" Verizon version.
> By asking Verizon? Verizon seems to allow any device that's
> "compatible" with its network and won't "harm" it.
No longer.
> for example, an Alltel Motorola RAZR can be activated, since
> Verizon also offered the RAZR. Alltel phones are generally a safe
> bet, while most Sprint phones aren't-
"XS11E" <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C3695CF6A429xs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>> By asking Verizon? Verizon seems to allow any device that's
>> "compatible" with its network and won't "harm" it.
>
> No longer.
>
>> for example, an Alltel Motorola RAZR can be activated, since
>> Verizon also offered the RAZR. Alltel phones are generally a safe
>> bet, while most Sprint phones aren't-
>
> See my post here:
>
> http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1537135&page=2
>
> It's probably safe to say that a non-VZW phone will NOT activate on
> their network, at least an Alltel phone sure won't....
>
Gee, i got an Alltell phone off ebay, changed esn's online, and have been
happily using an alltel phone on the verizon network for over a year
odd that most of the posts in that thread say that is factually wrong....
On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:04:53 -0400, "Peter Pan"
<pponvistaNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote:
>Gee, i got an Alltell phone off ebay, changed esn's online, and have been
>happily using an alltel phone on the verizon network for over a year
>odd that most of the posts in that thread say that is factually wrong....
Considering that Alltel is now part of Verizon and is being slowly
integrated into a single network - the idea of an Alltel phone not
being compatible will become more moot as time goes on.
I think that most any Alltel phone can be used on the Verizon network
(the exception may be Page Plus). It might require a firmware upgrade
at a VZW corporate store - but it may work just fine without it.
For several years Alltel and Verizon were almost the same - very
similar plans, features, and for the most part had very liberal
roaming agreements between the two networks. It was a no brainer when
they decided to merge since they were almost a single network anyhow.
Network integration is probably relatively easy. Billing may be
another issue though!
"XS11E" <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C3695CF6A429xs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>
>> By asking Verizon? Verizon seems to allow any device that's
>> "compatible" with its network and won't "harm" it.
>
> No longer.
>
>> for example, an Alltel Motorola RAZR can be activated, since
>> Verizon also offered the RAZR. Alltel phones are generally a safe
>> bet, while most Sprint phones aren't-
>
> See my post here:
>
> http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1537135&page=2
>
> It's probably safe to say that a non-VZW phone will NOT activate on
> their network, at least an Alltel phone sure won't....
Jeez! Thanks for the update- I withdraw my previous post!
So much for that "open network" horses--t they spewed when Congress was
making noise about a "Cellular Consumers' Bill of Rights".
I'd love to hear the excuses, since PagePlus (a prepaid Verizon reseller)
will activate any CDMA phone on "their" (Verizon's) network, so it's
obviously a policy issue rather than a technical one. Verizon must fear a
rash of activations of phones that actually have features.
>
> "XS11E" <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C3695CF6A429xs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
>> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>>
>>> By asking Verizon? Verizon seems to allow any device
>>> that's "compatible" with its network and won't "harm" it.
>>
>> No longer.
>>
>>> for example, an Alltel Motorola RAZR can be activated, since
>>> Verizon also offered the RAZR. Alltel phones are generally a
>>> safe bet, while most Sprint phones aren't-
>>
>> See my post here:
>>
>> http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1537135&page=2
>>
>> It's probably safe to say that a non-VZW phone will NOT activate
>> on their network, at least an Alltel phone sure won't....
>>
>
> Gee, i got an Alltell phone off ebay, changed esn's online, and
> have been happily using an alltel phone on the verizon network for
> over a year odd that most of the posts in that thread say that is
> factually wrong....
A year ago it would have worked, I had no problem activating mine as
recently as April of this year.
"Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote in message
news:vPb1m.44$qT4.23@newsfe23.iad...
>
> "XS11E" <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C3695CF6A429xs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
>> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
>>
>>> By asking Verizon? Verizon seems to allow any device that's
>>> "compatible" with its network and won't "harm" it.
>>
>> No longer.
>>
>>> for example, an Alltel Motorola RAZR can be activated, since
>>> Verizon also offered the RAZR. Alltel phones are generally a safe
>>> bet, while most Sprint phones aren't-
>>
>> See my post here:
>>
>> http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1537135&page=2
>>
>> It's probably safe to say that a non-VZW phone will NOT activate on
>> their network, at least an Alltel phone sure won't....
>
> Jeez! Thanks for the update- I withdraw my previous post!
>
> So much for that "open network" horses--t they spewed when Congress was
> making noise about a "Cellular Consumers' Bill of Rights".
>
> I'd love to hear the excuses, since PagePlus (a prepaid Verizon reseller)
> will activate any CDMA phone on "their" (Verizon's) network, so it's
> obviously a policy issue rather than a technical one. Verizon must fear a
> rash of activations of phones that actually have features.
>
>
>
>
odd that you would buy that guys flat out lies, rather than the OTHER stuff
in that same thread that says the exact opposite... did you bother reading
it, or just take his lies as gospel? cuz it's NOT what the thread says at
all... Left the link in, click on it and read for yourself what it
says......
On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:15:55 -0400, Diamond Dave
<dmine45.NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:04:53 -0400, "Peter Pan"
><pponvistaNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote:
>
>>Gee, i got an Alltell phone off ebay, changed esn's online, and have been
>>happily using an alltel phone on the verizon network for over a year
>>odd that most of the posts in that thread say that is factually wrong....
>
>Considering that Alltel is now part of Verizon and is being slowly
>integrated into a single network - the idea of an Alltel phone not
>being compatible will become more moot as time goes on.
>
>I think that most any Alltel phone can be used on the Verizon network
>(the exception may be Page Plus). It might require a firmware upgrade
>at a VZW corporate store - but it may work just fine without it.
>
>For several years Alltel and Verizon were almost the same - very
>similar plans, features, and for the most part had very liberal
>roaming agreements between the two networks. It was a no brainer when
>they decided to merge since they were almost a single network anyhow.
>Network integration is probably relatively easy. Billing may be
>another issue though!
>
I've seen some advance information on VZW billing that does differ
from Alltel
1) You can't just "suspend" a phone without a charge. If you want to
turn junior's phone off as punishment for a while, you have to pay a
charge to do so.
2) No free phone number changes. Alltel allowed one in a 12 month
period.
3) More expensive if you get interrupted for non-payment. You pay
$15/LINE to get turned back on (that can equal $75 for a five line
account) instead of $35/account - and they will NOT waive that. VZW
doesn't have accounts that reach that point either due to that hefty
premium.
4) Much less liberal in how long they'll give you to make a payment.
5) On the good side, they are much more liberal in the reason they'll
allow an Early Termination Fee to be waived.
So get ready Alltel customers. The first wave of Alltel customers in
the NE market have already transitioned at the end of May (mainly
customers in VA). The BIG conversion will happen in a couple of weeks
(scheduled for the weekend of 11 July) and will encompass the Southern
Markets which is a HUGE group. That will just leave the midwest and
west markets which will transition at a date later this year that has
not yet been set in stone.
XS11E wrote:
> "badgolferman" <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What does "unlocked" actually mean and if you get one can you use
>> it on the VZ network?
>
> Unlocked means a GSM cellphone that is not tied to a specific carrier
> and can be moved to another carrier by just replacing the SIM card.
>
> CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify the
> network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able to be moved
> to another carrier, some carriers will allow it, some won't.
>
> VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty meaningless.
Not necessarily. There have been some phones, at least Motorola phones,
that you could buy directly from Motorola and use on any CDMA network. I
bought at least one of these in the past.
> > "XS11E" <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C3695CF6A429xs11eyahoocom@127.0.0.1...
> >> "Todd Allcock" <elecconnec@AnoOspamL.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> By asking Verizon? Verizon seems to allow any device that's
> >>> "compatible" with its network and won't "harm" it.
> >>
> >> No longer.
> >>
> >>> for example, an Alltel Motorola RAZR can be activated, since
> >>> Verizon also offered the RAZR. Alltel phones are generally a safe
> >>> bet, while most Sprint phones aren't-
> >>
> >> See my post here:
> >>
> >> http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...1537135&page=2
> >>
> >> It's probably safe to say that a non-VZW phone will NOT activate on
> >> their network, at least an Alltel phone sure won't....
> >
> > Jeez! Thanks for the update- I withdraw my previous post!
> >
> > So much for that "open network" horses--t they spewed when Congress was
> > making noise about a "Cellular Consumers' Bill of Rights".
> >
> > I'd love to hear the excuses, since PagePlus (a prepaid Verizon
> > reseller) will activate any CDMA phone on "their" (Verizon's) network,
> > so it's obviously a policy issue rather than a technical one. Verizon
> > must fear a rash of activations of phones that actually have features.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> odd that you would buy that guys flat out lies, rather than the OTHER
> stuff in that same thread that says the exact opposite... did you bother
> reading it, or just take his lies as gospel? cuz it's NOT what the thread
> says at all... Left the link in, click on it and read for yourself what
> it says......
I "consider the source" and have been reading XS11E's posts for a long
time, and he (she? it?) seems as trustworthy and reliable as anyone here in
the cellular NGs.
Where is this "lie" you speak of? XS11E isn't speaking for Verizon or its
policies- he just said _he_ is having difficulty getting his phone activated.
And yes, I read the whole HoFo thread linked, and assuming everyone in the
thread is essentially telling the truth, the situation seems to be that
despite VZW policy, store employees and CS are confused, and activating a
non-Verizon phone seems like a bit of a crapshoot right now. Given that
situation, I wouldn't recommend the OP intentionally go out and buy a non-
Verizon handset to activate on Verizon right now, as I had suggested a few
posts ago, which is why I retracted what I said earlier.
It really doesn't matter what the official policy is if you can't find an
employee willing or able to follow it. This sounds similar to AT&T's
supposed no-contract postpaid plans that exist per AT&T policy, but no one
can eve seem to find a rep that knows about them or how to setup one!
Mr. Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:15:55 -0400, Diamond Dave
> <dmine45.NOSPAM@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 18:04:53 -0400, "Peter Pan"
>> <pponvistaNOSPAM@MarcAlanNOSPAM.Info> wrote:
>>
>>> Gee, i got an Alltell phone off ebay, changed esn's online, and have been
>>> happily using an alltel phone on the verizon network for over a year
>>> odd that most of the posts in that thread say that is factually wrong....
>> Considering that Alltel is now part of Verizon and is being slowly
>> integrated into a single network - the idea of an Alltel phone not
>> being compatible will become more moot as time goes on.
>>
>> I think that most any Alltel phone can be used on the Verizon network
>> (the exception may be Page Plus). It might require a firmware upgrade
>> at a VZW corporate store - but it may work just fine without it.
>>
>> For several years Alltel and Verizon were almost the same - very
>> similar plans, features, and for the most part had very liberal
>> roaming agreements between the two networks. It was a no brainer when
>> they decided to merge since they were almost a single network anyhow.
>> Network integration is probably relatively easy. Billing may be
>> another issue though!
>>
>
> I've seen some advance information on VZW billing that does differ
> from Alltel
>
> 1) You can't just "suspend" a phone without a charge. If you want to
> turn junior's phone off as punishment for a while, you have to pay a
> charge to do so.
>
You can log in to "myvzw" and do it yourself at no charge.
> 2) No free phone number changes. Alltel allowed one in a 12 month
> period.
You can also do that for free on "myvzw" and I have done it a couple
times by calling CS and there was no charge.
>
> 3) More expensive if you get interrupted for non-payment. You pay
> $15/LINE to get turned back on (that can equal $75 for a five line
> account) instead of $35/account - and they will NOT waive that. VZW
> doesn't have accounts that reach that point either due to that hefty
> premium.
No experience with this but my buddy has five lines and his account got
turned off because the bill got overlooked for some reasons. He said
they turned his account on over the phone when he gave them a check
number. He said they didn't ding him any extra fees.
>
> 4) Much less liberal in how long they'll give you to make a payment.
>
> 5) On the good side, they are much more liberal in the reason they'll
> allow an Early Termination Fee to be waived.
>
> So get ready Alltel customers. The first wave of Alltel customers in
> the NE market have already transitioned at the end of May (mainly
> customers in VA). The BIG conversion will happen in a couple of weeks
> (scheduled for the weekend of 11 July) and will encompass the Southern
> Markets which is a HUGE group. That will just leave the midwest and
> west markets which will transition at a date later this year that has
> not yet been set in stone.
> XS11E wrote:
>> CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify
>> the network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able to
>> be moved to another carrier, some carriers will allow it, some
>> won't.
>>
>> VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty meaningless.
>
> Not necessarily. There have been some phones, at least Motorola
> phones, that you could buy directly from Motorola and use on any
> CDMA network. I bought at least one of these in the past.
Sure but that has nothing to do with a phone being locked or unlocked.
XS11E wrote:
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> XS11E wrote:
>>> CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify
>>> the network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able to
>>> be moved to another carrier, some carriers will allow it, some
>>> won't.
>>>
>>> VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty meaningless.
>> Not necessarily. There have been some phones, at least Motorola
>> phones, that you could buy directly from Motorola and use on any
>> CDMA network. I bought at least one of these in the past.
>
> Sure but that has nothing to do with a phone being locked or unlocked.
Perhaps, but being able to activate it on any CDMA network is close
enough for me.
> XS11E wrote:
>> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>> CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify
>>>> the network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able
>>>> to be moved to another carrier, some carriers will allow it,
>>>> some won't.
>>>>
>>>> VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty
>>>> meaningless.
>>> Not necessarily. There have been some phones, at least Motorola
>>> phones, that you could buy directly from Motorola and use on any
>>> CDMA network. I bought at least one of these in the past.
>>
>> Sure but that has nothing to do with a phone being locked or
>> unlocked.
>
> Perhaps, but being able to activate it on any CDMA network is
> close enough for me.
Irrelevant, the OP asked for a definition of the term "Unlocked", the
term does not apply to a CDMA phone.
> Irrelevant, the OP asked for a definition of the term "Unlocked", the
> term does not apply to a CDMA phone.
That's not quite true. Look at the ARN service. You can only use an
unactivated CDMA cellular phone that is also unregistered to a specific
carrier. You can't use an old Verizon or Sprint or Alltel phone that was
registered in the past with one of those carriers unless they agree to
unregister it, which is likely impossible. I could have used my 270C
that I bought from a Motorola reseller on ARN if I had wanted to, since
it wasn't registered with any carrier until I activated it on Verizon.
It even came with the generic, and full-featured Motorola firmware,
rather than the Verizon de-featured firmware.
Maybe "lock" is the wrong word because there's nothing physically in the
phone that makes it locked like a GSM phone, but the carrier keeps the
phone's ESN registered in its database, even when the phone is no longer
being used.
On 2009-06-27, XS11E <xs11eNO@SPAMyahoo.com> wrote:
> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>
>> XS11E wrote:
>>> SMS <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> XS11E wrote:
>>>>> CDMA cellphones are not locked, they use a PRL file to identify
>>>>> the network rather than a SIM card and may or may not be able
>>>>> to be moved to another carrier, some carriers will allow it,
>>>>> some won't.
>>>>>
>>>>> VZW is a CDMA carrier so the term unlocked is pretty
>>>>> meaningless.
>>>> Not necessarily. There have been some phones, at least Motorola
>>>> phones, that you could buy directly from Motorola and use on any
>>>> CDMA network. I bought at least one of these in the past.
>>>
>>> Sure but that has nothing to do with a phone being locked or
>>> unlocked.
>>
>> Perhaps, but being able to activate it on any CDMA network is
>> close enough for me.
>
> Irrelevant, the OP asked for a definition of the term "Unlocked", the
> term does not apply to a CDMA phone.
I don't quite get the distinction you are drawing.
You buy GSM service from Rogers, put the SIM in your T-Mobile phone
and turn the phone on. If the phone won't let you use Roger's service
until you enter a password (which can only be obtained from T-Mobile)
we say the phone is "locked".
You buy CDMA service from Telus, give them your Sprint phone to be
reprogrammed onto their service and discover that the configuration
menu for the service programming needed to rehome the phone is
protected by a password (which can only be obtained from Sprint, who
won't tell). Why would we not say the phone is "locked"?
At 29 Jun 2009 09:25:02 -0700 XS11E wrote:
> Dennis Ferguson <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't quite get the distinction you are drawing.
>
> Simple, "locked" applies only to GSM phones.
>
> Why that became accepted usage I neither know or care.
I'm with Dennis- Sprint "locks" phones and Verizon doesn't. GSM phones are
"SIM-locked" or "subsidy-locked" and CDMA phones are "MSL (Master Subsidy
Lock) locked." You'll note the "L" even stands for "Lock."
Without the MSL code, a CDMA phone can't be reprogrammed, and, unlike Sprint,
Verizon and Alltel leave their MSLs at the convenient default of all zeros,
IIRC.
Call it whatever you like, but to paraphrase the Immortal Bard, "a lock by
any other name..."
> At 29 Jun 2009 09:25:02 -0700 XS11E wrote:
>> Dennis Ferguson <dcferguson@pacbell.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I don't quite get the distinction you are drawing.
>>
>> Simple, "locked" applies only to GSM phones.
>>
>> Why that became accepted usage I neither know or care.
>
>
> I'm with Dennis- Sprint "locks" phones and Verizon doesn't. GSM
> phones are "SIM-locked" or "subsidy-locked" and CDMA phones are
> "MSL (Master Subsidy Lock) locked." You'll note the "L" even
> stands for "Lock."
>
> Without the MSL code, a CDMA phone can't be reprogrammed, and,
> unlike Sprint, Verizon and Alltel leave their MSLs at the
> convenient default of all zeros, IIRC.
Actually, Sprint phones aren't locked. They usually can't be flashed
to another carrier because, as I understand it, there's no problem
finding and using the code, I think BitPim or QPST will do that. The
problem is that Sprint uses a somewhat different "bootloader" and
flashing a non-Sprint phone to Sprint will usually brick it, I know it
destroys a Moto V9M! :-(
None the less, it's a matter of semantics and definitions, "Locked" is
applied to GSM phones and not to CDMA phones or at least not correctly.
unlocked cell phones 
Verizon seems to allow any device that's
Linear Mode
