NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Verizon Wireless will break with the rest of
the cell phone industry and become the first mobile operator in the U.S.
to let customers use any phone on its network, the company announced
Tuesday.
The No. 2 U.S. wireless operator said that, by the end of 2008, its
customers could use phones and other devices that they've purchased
anywhere, as long as they meet certain standards.
It is a major change for Verizon Wireless, which had previously only
sold phones and service together as a package. Cell phone carriers
currently dictate what selection of phones customers may purchase, and
even what software is on the phones.
Going gaga over Google mobile
Phones and devices that access Verizon Wireless' network will still have
to meet technical standards dictated by Verizon, and the company said it
would publish guidelines for designing software and devices for the
network early in 2008.
Verizon Wireless is a joint venture of Verizon Communications and
Britain's Vodafone PLC.
At 27 Nov 2007 15:14:46 -0500 Jim Higgins wrote:
> Verizon to open cell network to all phones
> http://tinyurl.com/ywczjj
>
Geez, I hate sloppy journalism....
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Verizon Wireless will break with the
> rest of the cell phone industry and become the first mobile
> operator in the U.S. to let customers use any phone on its network,
> the company announced Tuesday.
The U.S. GSM carriers (both old and new AT&T, and T-Mobile and it's
predecessors) have always allowed any compatible phone on their network.
You stick your SIM into whatever phone you want.
> It is a major change for Verizon Wireless, which had previously
> only sold phones and service together as a package.
Also not entirely true- while it's certainly a new move for Verizon since
the switch to CDMA, back in the analog-only days, cell companies (including
Verizon!) allowed any compatible equipment on their networks- back then
there were no "PRLs" or special data settings to encourage carriers to rely
on or supply customized handsets.
Jim Higgins wrote:
> Verizon to open cell network to all phones
> http://tinyurl.com/ywczjj
>
> November 27 2007: 2:14 PM EST
>
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Verizon Wireless will break with the rest of
> the cell phone industry and become the first mobile operator in the U.S.
> to let customers use any phone on its network, the company announced
> Tuesday.
>
> The No. 2 U.S. wireless operator said that, by the end of 2008, its
> customers could use phones and other devices that they've purchased
> anywhere, as long as they meet certain standards.
>
> It is a major change for Verizon Wireless, which had previously only
> sold phones and service together as a package. Cell phone carriers
> currently dictate what selection of phones customers may purchase, and
> even what software is on the phones.
> Going gaga over Google mobile
>
> Phones and devices that access Verizon Wireless' network will still have
> to meet technical standards dictated by Verizon, and the company said it
> would publish guidelines for designing software and devices for the
> network early in 2008.
>
> Verizon Wireless is a joint venture of Verizon Communications and
> Britain's Vodafone PLC.
The interesting thing will be is if we actually see an immediate
reduction in plan costs since no subsidy recovery will be involved and
if crippling stops since devices will still need to be built to spec
will that spec include say crippling all GPS receivers such as they
currently do in the Blackberries and Novatel USB modems.
>
> The U.S. GSM carriers (both old and new AT&T, and T-Mobile and it's
> predecessors) have always allowed any compatible phone on their
> network. You stick your SIM into whatever phone you want.
Yeah, but that didn't include non-sim carded phones. So it wasn't all
phones. Verizon is going to allow all phones from any network, which will
be an industry first.
Corby <a6geles6sdrag6on@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:Xns99F5C7E2D8D9BCorby@208.49.82.60:
>
>>
>> The U.S. GSM carriers (both old and new AT&T, and T-Mobile and it's
>> predecessors) have always allowed any compatible phone on their
>> network. You stick your SIM into whatever phone you want.
>
>
> Yeah, but that didn't include non-sim carded phones. So it wasn't all
> phones. Verizon is going to allow all phones from any network, which
> will be an industry first.
>
George <george@nospam.invalid> wrote in
news:EsednXFhI7K6DNHanZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@comcast.com:
> The interesting thing will be is if we actually see an
immediate
> reduction in plan costs since no subsidy recovery will be
involved and
> if crippling stops since devices will still need to be built to
spec
> will that spec include say crippling all GPS receivers such as
they
> currently do in the Blackberries and Novatel USB modems.
>
>
I suspect one of the "certain standards" is the ability to upload
Verizon's crippleware to the phone, turning off anything they
think they can SELL back to you. Wanna bet?
If you get a chance, take an Alltel CDMA, GPS-enabled phone into
VZW and ask them to put it on your plan. See if they want to
upload their crippleware to it, then report back here what
happened....(c; Alltel's phones aren't crippled like VZW's are.
Larry
--
Isn't it ironic that the same ISPs that are telling you
you're downloads threaten their networks......
.....are testing 100Gbps TV to sell on the SAME systems? http://tinyurl.com/27qx3v
> > The U.S. GSM carriers (both old and new AT&T, and T-Mobile and it's
> > predecessors) have always allowed any compatible phone on their
> > network. You stick your SIM into whatever phone you want.
>
>
> Yeah, but that didn't include non-sim carded phones.
Of course not- non-SIM carded phones are incompatible with their networks.
> So it wasn't all
> phones.
No, as I said- "all compatible phones."
> Verizon is going to allow all phones from any network, which will
> be an industry first.
No they're not- how are they going to allow an incompatible GSM phone onto
their CDMA network? They are allowing customers to use other COMPATIBLE
phones on their network, which, as I said, has been done for years on GSM,
and frankly even on CDMA with Alltel, IIRC.
The article doesn't even make it clear if they're talking about past or
current phones, BTW. It sounds more like they're leaving the door open for
future non-carrier branded phones like the upcoming Google OS-based phones.
> Corby <a6geles6sdrag6on@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:Xns99F5C7E2D8D9BCorby@208.49.82.60:
>
>>
>>>
>>> The U.S. GSM carriers (both old and new AT&T, and T-Mobile and
>>> it's predecessors) have always allowed any compatible phone on
>>> their network. You stick your SIM into whatever phone you want.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, but that didn't include non-sim carded phones. So it wasn't
>> all phones. Verizon is going to allow all phones from any
>> network, which will be an industry first.
>>
>
> You should clarify- all CDMA networks.
Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow GSM
phones, they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers
to use their networks so it's possible if they thought they could make
a profit doing so.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
news:Xns99F5CD7EB8FDExs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
> Scott <how.do@you.do> wrote:
>
>> Corby <a6geles6sdrag6on@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:Xns99F5C7E2D8D9BCorby@208.49.82.60:
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The U.S. GSM carriers (both old and new AT&T, and T-Mobile and
>>>> it's predecessors) have always allowed any compatible phone on
>>>> their network. You stick your SIM into whatever phone you want.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, but that didn't include non-sim carded phones. So it wasn't
>>> all phones. Verizon is going to allow all phones from any
>>> network, which will be an industry first.
>>>
>>
>> You should clarify- all CDMA networks.
>
> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow GSM
> phones, they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers
> to use their networks so it's possible if they thought they could make
> a profit doing so.
>
>
>
>
What that means Larry is your non VZ network phone will go up in value
and existing crippled and locked VZ phones will decline in value now
that users have a choice.
On Nov 27, 9:51 pm, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> George <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote innews:EsednXFhI7K6DNHanZ2dnUVZ_qCdnZ2d@comcast.co m:
>
>
>
> > The interesting thing will be is if we actually see an
> immediate
> > reduction in plan costs since no subsidy recovery will be
> involved and
> > if crippling stops since devices will still need to be built to
> spec
> > will that spec include say crippling all GPS receivers such as
> they
> > currently do in the Blackberries and Novatel USB modems.
>
> I suspect one of the "certain standards" is the ability to upload
> Verizon's crippleware to the phone, turning off anything they
> think they can SELL back to you. Wanna bet?
>
> If you get a chance, take an Alltel CDMA, GPS-enabled phone into
> VZW and ask them to put it on your plan. See if they want to
> upload their crippleware to it, then report back here what
> happened....(c; Alltel's phones aren't crippled like VZW's are.
>
> Larry
> --
> Isn't it ironic that the same ISPs that are telling you
> you're downloads threaten their networks......
> ....are testing 100Gbps TV to sell on the SAME systems?http://tinyurl.com/27qx3v
> What that means Larry is your non VZ network phone will go up
in value
> and existing crippled and locked VZ phones will decline in
value now
> that users have a choice.
>
>
ONe thing you can count on....if nothing else.
NO used SELLphone has EVER gone UP in value....or even price.
You're lucky if you can GIVE it away!
Larry
--
Isn't it ironic that the same ISPs that are telling you
you're downloads threaten their networks......
.....are testing 100Gbps TV to sell on the SAME systems? http://tinyurl.com/27qx3v
On Nov 27, 10:30 pm, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> 4phun <vic.hea...@gmail.com> wrote in news:8c0f1790-4f4c-4226-
> ac73-ee51f285e...@n20g2000hsh.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > What that means Larry is your non VZ network phone will go up
> in value
> > and existing crippled and locked VZ phones will decline in
> value now
> > that users have a choice.
>
> ONe thing you can count on....if nothing else.
>
> NO used SELLphone has EVER gone UP in value....or even price.
> You're lucky if you can GIVE it away!
>
> Larry
> --
> Isn't it ironic that the same ISPs that are telling you
> you're downloads threaten their networks......
> ....are testing 100Gbps TV to sell on the SAME systems?http://tinyurl.com/27qx3v
Larry, there is a strong market for certain used phones. I suspect
your Nokia 800/810 is one of the more desirable ones. I had a link a
while back where you could get a quote on your existing phone when I
was investigating buying a different type of phone. I agree many cell
phones have zip value as used. I used to pass such used phones on to
women who needed free 911. But now you can get a decent new Motorola
phone without a contract at RadioShack or Walmart for $10 which does
that. These Tracfones also makes regular phone calls if needed.
BTW that is a though provoking point in your signature in the above
post.
> On 2007-11-28, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>> GSM phones
>
> ...except that then they'd have to build out a GSM network.
Wrong, read the entire post:
"they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers to
use their networks"
That's how they allowed roaming back before there was a complete CDMA
network, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those agreements are still
in effect and/or could be renewed and new agreements made, the question
is would it be profitable to do so?
Heck, they don't even have a complete CDMA network, they use Altel's
and others.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
> XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
> news:Xns99F5CD7EB8FDExs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>> GSM phones, they probably already have some agreements with GSM
>> providers to use their networks so it's possible if they thought
>> they could make a profit doing so.
> Yes- I am sure of that.
How so?
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
news:Xns99F5DF0312F37xs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-11-28, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>>> GSM phones
>>
>> ...except that then they'd have to build out a GSM network.
>
> Wrong, read the entire post:
>
> "they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers to
> use their networks"
>
> That's how they allowed roaming back before there was a complete CDMA
> network,
Um- no.
> I wouldn't be surprised if some of those agreements are still
> in effect and/or could be renewed and new agreements made, the question
> is would it be profitable to do so?
Um- no.
>
> Heck, they don't even have a complete CDMA network, they use Altel's
> and others.
>
>
XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
news:Xns99F5DF1FC72BDxs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
> Scott <how.do@you.do> wrote:
>
>> XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
>> news:Xns99F5CD7EB8FDExs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
>
>>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>>> GSM phones, they probably already have some agreements with GSM
>>> providers to use their networks so it's possible if they thought
>>> they could make a profit doing so.
>
>> Yes- I am sure of that.
>
> How so?
>
>
How so? Because I know for a fact that your suppositions and assumptions
are wrong. There are no agreements in place between GSM and CDMA
providers- there never have been.
XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
news:Xns99F5DF0312F37xs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
> Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-11-28, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>>> GSM phones
>>
>> ...except that then they'd have to build out a GSM network.
>
> Wrong, read the entire post:
>
> "they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers to
> use their networks"
They don't.
>
> That's how they allowed roaming back before there was a complete CDMA
> network,
No, it's not. There has never been roaming between GSM and CDMA carriers.
> I wouldn't be surprised if some of those agreements are still
> in effect and/or could be renewed and new agreements made, the question
> is would it be profitable to do so?
No.
>
> Heck, they don't even have a complete CDMA network, they use Altel's
> and others.
>
>
> XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
> news:Xns99F5DF1FC72BDxs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
>
>> Scott <how.do@you.do> wrote:
>>
>>> XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
>>> news:Xns99F5CD7EB8FDExs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
>>
>>>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>>>> GSM phones, they probably already have some agreements with GSM
>>>> providers to use their networks so it's possible if they
>>>> thought they could make a profit doing so.
>>
>>> Yes- I am sure of that.
>>
>> How so?
>>
>>
>
> How so? Because I know for a fact that your suppositions and
> assumptions are wrong. There are no agreements in place between
> GSM and CDMA providers- there never have been.
And, of course, you have proof of that.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:55:22 -0700, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com>
wrote:
>Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2007-11-28, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>>> GSM phones
>>
>> ...except that then they'd have to build out a GSM network.
>
>Wrong, read the entire post:
>
>"they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers to
>use their networks"
Those were your words, not words from the article quoted.
>That's how they allowed roaming back before there was a complete CDMA
>network, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those agreements are still
>in effect and/or could be renewed and new agreements made, the question
>is would it be profitable to do so?
Right, roaming. Remember that for a second.
To quote the original article, with emphasis added:
"Verizon Wireless will break with the rest of the cell phone industry
and become the first mobile operator in the U.S. to let customers use
any phone on *ITS NETWORK*, the company announced Tuesday."
Nowhere does it say they're going to allow phones to roam on any GSM
network partners, or for that matter ANY partners. They are going to
allow any compatible phone on *ITS* network.
Now, back to the original article, again with emphasis added:
"The No. 2 U.S. wireless operator said that, by the end of 2008, its
customers could use phones and other devices that they've purchased
anywhere, ***as long as they meet certain standards.***"
You can bet two of those standards will be, 1) it must be CDMA, and,
2) if it's a phone, it must be E911 Phase II compliant. They aren't
going to rebuild/duplicate their network just so it can be used with
devices they didn't sell.
>Heck, they don't even have a complete CDMA network, they use Altel's
>and others.
Then the users of devices not sold by VZW may not be able to use them
on VZW's extended network roaming partners. We'll have to wait until
an official announcement is made. But I just do not see VZW allowing
GSM devices to be added on their customer accounts when they would be
roaming 100% of the time.
On 2007-11-28, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote:
> Wrong, read the entire post:
>
> "they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers to
> use their networks"
OK. Now explain to me why Verizon would want GSM phones on their network,
when allowing said phones means the customers using them would be roaming
100% of the time.
> Heck, they don't even have a complete CDMA network, they use Altel's
> and others.
That's different. Verizon has a large CDMA footprint. They have plenty of
NATIVE CDMA coverage. They have no native GSM coverage.
On 2007-11-28, Todd Allcock <elecconnec@AmericaOnLine.com> wrote:
> No they're not- how are they going to allow an incompatible GSM phone onto
> their CDMA network? They are allowing customers to use other COMPATIBLE
> phones on their network, which, as I said, has been done for years on GSM,
> and frankly even on CDMA with Alltel, IIRC.
Actually, Verizon Wireless, back in '01 or '02, allowed me to activate my
Nokia 6185 on their Cleveland network. It was originally a GTE/Alltel phone.
I don't think they were going to, because they claimed they didn't
sell it, but then I reminded them that a couple area resellers sold
Verizon 6185s, and they would have to have approved it for use on
their network.
XS11E wrote:
> Scott <how.do@you.do> wrote:
>
>> XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote in
>> news:Xns99F5CD7EB8FDExs11emailinatorcom@69.28.173. 184:
>
>>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>>> GSM phones, they probably already have some agreements with GSM
>>> providers to use their networks so it's possible if they thought
>>> they could make a profit doing so.
>
>> Yes- I am sure of that.
>
> How so?
>
>
How so?
4phun wrote:
> What that means Larry is your non VZ network phone will go up in value
> and existing crippled and locked VZ phones will decline in value now
> that users have a choice.
>
I understand you are a fanboi but do you ever think about what you write?
Steve Sobol wrote:
> On 2007-11-28, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote:
>
>> And, of course, you have proof of that.
>
> You still haven't explained why Verizon would want their customers to use
> phones that by their very nature would have to roam all of the time.
>
>
Exactly, thats why Sprint has roaming restrictions because even though
their users need VZW's system to compensate for their network they
restrict them because roaming is so much more expensive than native
coverage.
> I suspect one of the "certain standards" is the ability to upload
> Verizon's crippleware to the phone, turning off anything they
> think they can SELL back to you. Wanna bet?
"Suspect" all you want but that's extremely UNLIKELY. There would be far
too many support costs and issues associated with trying to load software
onto that much larger a variety of handsets. It's bad enough on their own
units.
The gotcha in all this is likely to be some outrageous fees for the non-VZW
phones. Probably both an initial activation charge and a monthly gouge.
The Ghost of General Lee <ghost@general.lee> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:55:22 -0700, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2007-11-28, XS11E <xs11e@mailinator.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Are you sure of that? There's no reason Verizon couldn't allow
>>>> GSM phones
>>>
>>> ...except that then they'd have to build out a GSM network.
>>
>>Wrong, read the entire post:
>>
>>"they probably already have some agreements with GSM providers to
>>use their networks"
>
> Those were your words, not words from the article quoted.
Right, so?
>>That's how they allowed roaming back before there was a complete
>>CDMA network, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those agreements
>>are still in effect and/or could be renewed and new agreements
>>made, the question is would it be profitable to do so?
>
> Right, roaming. Remember that for a second.
>
> To quote the original article, with emphasis added:
>
> "Verizon Wireless will break with the rest of the cell phone
> industry and become the first mobile operator in the U.S. to let
> customers use any phone on *ITS NETWORK*, the company announced
> Tuesday."
>
> Nowhere does it say they're going to allow phones to roam on any
> GSM network partners, or for that matter ANY partners. They are
> going to allow any compatible phone on *ITS* network.
Nowhere does it say they aren't. *ITS* network includes all the
carriers with whom Verizon has agreements, primarily Alltel but others
as well.
> Now, back to the original article, again with emphasis added:
>
> "The No. 2 U.S. wireless operator said that, by the end of 2008,
> its customers could use phones and other devices that they've
> purchased anywhere, ***as long as they meet certain standards.***"
>
> You can bet two of those standards will be, 1) it must be CDMA,
> and, 2) if it's a phone, it must be E911 Phase II compliant. They
> aren't going to rebuild/duplicate their network just so it can be
> used with devices they didn't sell.
You can bet, I won't take that one. Nowhere did I suggest they would
rebuild their network, they can use other's networks exactly as they
are doing now. If it's profitable for them to use other's CDMA
networks (and it is or they wouldn't be doing it) it may be profitable
for them to use other's GSM networks.
What I *will* be on is that if Verizon can make money doing it, they'll
do it.
--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Verizon to open cell network to all phones 
Linear Mode
