gizmodo.com — Verizon's tactics to combat the Jesusphone 3G now
include briefing its employees about the iPhone's failings, so they
can answer customer questions about why it doesn't carry the device.
BTW
Let's do our own math. Looking at the picture/ad/poster that Verizon
has issued; AT&T's Data is $30
Verizon's Data is $40.
Assuming each would be for a 2 year contract, that would cost you $720
for Cingular and $960 for Verizon. Remember, this is only for data at
3G/EVDO levels. Now, add voice, at Unlimited Minutes.
AT&T's voice is $100, adding up to $2400 + $720 in data = $3120, and
Verizon's voice is $139, adding up to $3336+$960 in data = $4296.
Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
Which is fairly large.
> Leaked Document Shows Verizon's Anti-iPhone Propaganda
>
> gizmodo.com — Verizon's tactics to combat the Jesusphone 3G now
> include briefing its employees about the iPhone's failings, so they
> can answer customer questions about why it doesn't carry the device.
>
>
Yep, pretty standard sales info. A zillion years ago when I owned a
Cingular dealership, we'd get similar propaganda whenever the competition
launched a new product or sefvice we didn't offer.
> BTW
> Let's do our own math. Looking at the picture/ad/poster that Verizon
> has issued; AT&T's Data is $30
> Verizon's Data is $40.
>
> Assuming each would be for a 2 year contract, that would cost you $720
> for Cingular and $960 for Verizon. Remember, this is only for data at
> 3G/EVDO levels.
Again, read the propaganda- VZW is suggesting their $40 data is preferable
because it includes unlimited text/MMS messaging and turn-by-turn spoken
navigation softwarea for just $10 more- unlimited texting on AT&T is $20
extra.
> Now, add voice, at Unlimited Minutes.
>
> AT&T's voice is $100, adding up to $2400 + $720 in data = $3120, and
> Verizon's voice is $139, adding up to $3336+$960 in data = $4296.
Verizon's voice is $99, just like AT&T- $139 includeds unlimited data and
messaging (essentially just the $99 voice plan plus the $40 data/txt/nav
plan discussed above.
> Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
> similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
> Which is fairly large.
> Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
> similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
> Which is fairly large.
>
>
Crap! Are these toys worth THAT much?! I don't think so....
"Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9B0D722C3DED8noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:94479a6d-4259-4868-9574-
> 827666a743c0@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
>> similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
>> Which is fairly large.
>>
>>
>
> Crap! Are these toys worth THAT much?! I don't think so....
>
> $3300 to look at webpages and play games?
>
> Are we all CRAZY??!
Depends on your needs I guess. On T-Mobile, I'm paying $72/month for two
WinMo phones on a shared plan both with unlimited web and e-mail. $350 for
the two phones, and $1728 for 24 months of service (to compare apples to
apples- I've never actually had a two-year contract, and don't even intend
on signing one either!) Just under $2000 for two years of voice and data on
two smartphones seems reasonable to me, or else I wouldn't be paying for
it...
At 02 Sep 2008 01:25:30 -0700 4phun wrote:
> Leaked Document Shows Verizon's Anti-iPhone Propaganda
>
> gizmodo.com — Verizon's tactics to combat the Jesusphone 3G now
> include briefing its employees about the iPhone's failings, so they
> can answer customer questions about why it doesn't carry the device.
>
> http://digg.com/apple/Leaked_Documen...one_Propaganda
Yep, pretty standard sales info. A zillion years ago when I owned a
Cingular dealership, we'd get similar propaganda whenever the competition
launched a new product or sefvice we didn't offer.
> BTW
> Let's do our own math. Looking at the picture/ad/poster that Verizon
> has issued; AT&T's Data is $30
> Verizon's Data is $40.
>
> Assuming each would be for a 2 year contract, that would cost you $720
> for Cingular and $960 for Verizon. Remember, this is only for data at
> 3G/EVDO levels.
Again, read the propaganda- VZW is suggesting their $40 data is preferable
because it includes unlimited text/MMS messaging and turn-by-turn spoken
navigation software for just $10 more- unlimited texting on AT&T is $20
extra.
> Now, add voice, at Unlimited Minutes.
>
> AT&T's voice is $100, adding up to $2400 + $720 in data = $3120, and
> Verizon's voice is $139, adding up to $3336+$960 in data = $4296.
Verizon's voice is $99, just like AT&T- $139 includes unlimited data and
messaging (essentially just the $99 voice plan plus the $40 data/txt/nav
plan discussed above.
> Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
> similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
> Which is fairly large.
Todd Allcock wrote:
> At 02 Sep 2008 01:25:30 -0700 4phun wrote:
>> Leaked Document Shows Verizon's Anti-iPhone Propaganda
>>
>> gizmodo.com — Verizon's tactics to combat the Jesusphone 3G now
>> include briefing its employees about the iPhone's failings, so they
>> can answer customer questions about why it doesn't carry the device.
>>
>>
> http://digg.com/apple/Leaked_Documen...one_Propaganda
>
>
> Yep, pretty standard sales info. A zillion years ago when I owned a
> Cingular dealership, we'd get similar propaganda whenever the competition
> launched a new product or sefvice we didn't offer.
The biggest failing of Verizon is that they have such a limited choice
of smart phones with Wi-Fi. I know that two new HTC models are coming in
October, but for now there's only the VX-6800.
The HTC Raphael, which Verizon will have soon, has been decontented
(according to early reports). Typical Verizon. OTOH, it still has a
_lot_ of advantages over the iPhone. For those looking for a true smart
phone with full PDA capabilities, the Raphael and the Herman look like
they'll blow the iPhone out of the water. They use the Opera browser,
and they didn't forget to include crucial phone features like voice dialing.
Personally I want a smart phone with WiFi, but without signing up for a
data plan. Verizon lets you do this with the VX6800, and hopefully it'll
be the same with their new models. There's enough free WiFi around to
meet my needs without having a huge monthly charge for data.
Verizon could put together a very terrific sales pitch in the stores by
having an iPhone in the store along with the Raphael (slide out
keyboard) and Diamond (touch screen only), and demonstrate the
differences in capabilities.
Larry wrote:
> 4phun <vic.healey@gmail.com> wrote in news:94479a6d-4259-4868-9574-
> 827666a743c0@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
>> similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
>> Which is fairly large.
>>
>>
>
> Crap! Are these toys worth THAT much?! I don't think so....
>
> $3300 to look at webpages and play games?
>
> Are we all CRAZY??!
>
They're coming to take me away hah, hah,
They're coming to take me away he, he,
To the funny farm,
Where everything's beautiful all the time. . . .
I somehow manage to get along without music, TV, internet browsing, etc,
on my phone! The phone could do so of course, if I wanted it.
Neither do I make or receive calls while dining in restaurants. (or even
at home.)
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:25evk.40081$ZE5.34867@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
> The HTC Raphael, which Verizon will have soon, has been decontented
> (according to early reports). Typical Verizon. OTOH, it still has a _lot_
> of advantages over the iPhone. For those looking for a true smart phone
> with full PDA capabilities, the Raphael and the Herman look like they'll
> blow the iPhone out of the water. They use the Opera browser, and they
> didn't forget to include crucial phone features like voice dialing.
I'm not really impressed with Opera Mobile. It's slow and awkward, but does
at least render a bunch of pages that IE Mobile can't. For dealing with
quick and dirty info grabbing from bookmarked WAP/mobile sites, IEM is still
my "go to" browser of choice.
Neither are as pretty or quick at rendering "full" pages as the iPhone's
mobile Safari.
> Verizon could put together a very terrific sales pitch in the stores by
> having an iPhone in the store along with the Raphael (slide out keyboard)
> and Diamond (touch screen only), and demonstrate the differences in
> capabilities.
That would be a horrible idea! The iPhone has a "sizzle" factor unmatched
by either HTC product, despite the more advanced capabilities of the HTC
devices. You wouldn't park the SUV you're trying sell next to a Porsche and
tell customers how much more useful the SUV is because it can tow a boat,
seat seven, and hold more luggage! As completely honest and truthful as
your sales pitch was, people's eyes would still wander over to the Porsche
while you were talking!
On Sep 2, 12:30*pm, "Todd Allcock" <eleccon...@AmericaOnLine.com>
wrote:
> At 02 Sep 2008 01:25:30 -0700 4phun wrote:> Leaked Document Shows Verizon's Anti-iPhone Propaganda
>
> > gizmodo.com — Verizon's tactics to combat the Jesusphone 3G now
> > include briefing its employees about the iPhone's failings, so they
> > can answer customer questions about why it doesn't carry the device.
>
> http://digg.com/apple/Leaked_Documen...nti_iPhone_Pro...
>
> Yep, pretty standard sales info. *A zillion years ago when I owned a
> Cingular dealership, we'd get similar propaganda whenever the competition
> launched a new product or sefvice we didn't offer.
>
> > BTW
> > Let's do our own math. Looking at the picture/ad/poster that Verizon
> > has issued; AT&T's Data is $30
> > Verizon's Data is $40.
>
> > Assuming each would be for a 2 year contract, that would cost you $720
> > for Cingular and $960 for Verizon. Remember, this is only for data at
> > 3G/EVDO levels.
>
> Again, read the propaganda- VZW is suggesting their $40 data is preferable
> because it includes unlimited text/MMS messaging and turn-by-turn spoken
> navigation software for just $10 more- unlimited texting on AT&T is $20
> extra.
>
> > Now, add voice, at Unlimited Minutes.
>
> > AT&T's voice is $100, adding up to $2400 + $720 in data = $3120, and
> > Verizon's voice is $139, adding up to $3336+$960 in data = $4296.
>
> Verizon's voice is $99, just like AT&T- $139 includes unlimited data and
> messaging (essentially just the $99 voice plan plus the $40 data/txt/nav
> plan discussed above.
>
> > Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
> > similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
> > Which is fairly large.
>
> Except you're off by $40/month or $960.
Apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
The Unlimited text is NOT THE SAME.
Verizon is unlimited text only to those IN or to say those on the
Verizon Network.
You pay Verizon through your donkey if you text to an iPhone on AT&T
for instance.
That is an expensive privilege if all your college friends have an
iPhone and you alone are on Verizon. Many colleges are giving iPhones
to their students this year and everyone gets a big discount from AT&T
for college use.
Then there is that unlimited Verizon Data which is capped at 5GB. Go
over and its is $0.25 PER MB data.
That means if you use 6 GB (5GB + 1GB over) you could owe the big Vz a
$250 data overcharge for that month. Whoa Monkey!
With those kinds of dollar signs in their eyes it is no wonder that VZ
can give away those iPhone clones and wannabes they stock.
Its all about that contract they nail you to, that is were the Verizon
money is.
> That would be a horrible idea! The iPhone has a "sizzle" factor
> unmatched by either HTC product, despite the more advanced capabilities
> of the HTC devices. You wouldn't park the SUV you're trying sell next
> to a Porsche and tell customers how much more useful the SUV is because
> it can tow a boat, seat seven, and hold more luggage! As completely
> honest and truthful as your sales pitch was, people's eyes would still
> wander over to the Porsche while you were talking!
But it's not as if these people don't know that the iPhone exists.
You've already lost the customers that care only about the coolness
factor and that don't care about capabilities.
It's a chance to cut through all the hype over the iPhone and bring a
dose of reality to the comparison. How many people know about the iPhone
limitations in terms of editing documents? How many people know that the
iPhone lacks voice dialing? How many people know that the iPhone browser
is so limited?
"SMS" <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:c7gvk.40091$ZE5.9591@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> That would be a horrible idea! The iPhone has a "sizzle" factor
>> unmatched by either HTC product, despite the more advanced capabilities
>> of the HTC devices. You wouldn't park the SUV you're trying sell next to
>> a Porsche and tell customers how much more useful the SUV is because it
>> can tow a boat, seat seven, and hold more luggage! As completely honest
>> and truthful as your sales pitch was, people's eyes would still wander
>> over to the Porsche while you were talking!
>
> But it's not as if these people don't know that the iPhone exists.
The SUV customers know a Porsche exists as well- I still wouldn't show my
SUV off against one!
There's a psychology to sales. Part of that is called "transfer of
ownership." It's why a good salesperson will put the item you're looking at
in your hands and let YOU go through it's motions, instead of just showing
it off. The idea is that it, in your mind, becomes "yours" while it's in
your control, and the salesperson tries to make it hard for you to
relinquish it. Having the competitor's product there gives the prospective
customer an opportunity to "own" it as well, and increases the odds he or
she might like it or prefer it. It's why a good car salesperson tries to
get you to test drive not just the model of vehicle you're interested in,
but one that's the color you want, and has the options you're most
interested in- it's all about letting you imagine the product is yours
before you purchase it. It's also why the Ford dealer doesn't have a new
Chevy on site to show off it's limitations- fear of accidentally transfering
ownership of the competitor's product to you instead of theirs!
> You've already lost the customers that care only about the coolness factor
> and that don't care about capabilities.
Not necessarily- all of life is a trade off. Many prospective iPhone
customers might be looking for an excuse to stay with Verizon because they
like the coverage, or because of the "in" calling, or whatever. They just
need to know that they can get a product that is "almost" as good, cool,
useful, or what-have-you. Showing these customers that the XPhone can do
all the stuff the iPhone does, plus these additional things, will serve the
purpose well. That's why I've said before that phones like the Voyager,
Instinct, Ocean, et all, don't have to be "better" than the iPhone- they
just need to be an acceptable substitute for those looking for an
iPhone-esque device that's not shackled to AT&T- if they can do a few neat
tricks the iPhone can't, that's just a bonus.
> It's a chance to cut through all the hype over the iPhone and bring a dose
> of reality to the comparison. How many people know about the iPhone
> limitations in terms of editing documents? How many people know that the
> iPhone lacks voice dialing? How many people know that the iPhone browser
> is so limited?
Regardless, how many people viewing the Verizon salesperson's
"demonstration" of an iPhone will actually believe that the demonstration
wasn't rigged to create non-existant limitations? I could easily
"demonstrate" that my HTC Tilt CAN'T do a variety of things that it actually
CAN do, and if you're not familiar with the product you'd have no easy way
(short of studying the manual and spending quality time with the device) to
dispute my claim. With all due respect, a solid demonstration of what the
Verizon product can do that the iPhone can't, of those features that
interest the customer (TBT directions, etc.) should suffice, without an
actual iPhone on site to "bash."
I've used him as an example before, but a friend of mine switched from a
Treo to an iPhone, knowing full well the Treo had more capability. He was
knocked out by the iPhone UI, and easy iTunes sync (he was an iPod user from
version 1.0.) He has managed to get around the limitations that bug him,
albeit awkwardly, (like e-mailing himself oft used documents before
traveling to be able to view them in the attachment viewer app, for example)
and doesn't regret for a moment that he switched. The hypothetical Verizon
salesperson in our discourse is far better off painting the proverbial "word
picture" of the iPhone's limitations rather than letting the prospect "own"
an iPhone on his turf, and imagine putting up with them!
Bottom line, the iPhone is a sexy phone and is a perfectly adequate choice
for a good number of people. I don't happen to be one of them, but that
illustrates the difference between a good salesperson and a bad one- a good
salesperson shows a customer the product that fills the customer's needs,
while the bad one shows the product that fills the SALESPERSON'S needs! For
an example of those salespeople, just look at the teenage rookies at a Best
Buy or Circuit City showing off liquid-cooled 3D gaming rigs to the
grandmother who asks to see a PC to receive digital pictures of her
grandkids via email!
The Verizon salesperson is far better off explaining the iPhone's
limitations, giving the customer a Verizon device and walking the customer
him/herself through doing various (and useful to the customer!) tasks on the
Verizon device that an iPhone can't do, and politely "daring" the prospect
to have an AT&T employee get the iPhone to do those tasks if he/she insists
on checking out an iPhone first before buying. Having a "live" iPhone on
site for a customer to enjoy, and perhaps decide he/she can live with the
limitations, is pure folly, IMO.
> > > AT&T's voice is $100, adding up to $2400 + $720 in data = $3120, and
> > > Verizon's voice is $139, adding up to $3336+$960 in data = $4296.
> >
> > Verizon's voice is $99, just like AT&T- $139 includes unlimited data and
> > messaging (essentially just the $99 voice plan plus the $40 data/txt/nav
> > plan discussed above.
> >
> > > Let's add the iPhone to AT&T's plan, which would be $3319, and a
> > > similar $199 phone to Verizon; $4495. It's a difference of $1375.
> > > Which is fairly large.
> >
> > Except you're off by $40/month or $960.
>
> Apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
>
> The Unlimited text is NOT THE SAME.
>
> Verizon is unlimited text only to those IN or to say those on the
> Verizon Network.
No, the $40 "premium" data add-on includes text and picture messaging to
any phone on any (US) network.
"Unlimited Text, Picture, Video & Instant Messaging to anyone on any
network in the U.S."
> You pay Verizon through your donkey if you text to an iPhone on AT&T
> for instance.
No, you don't- it's included in the package.
> That is an expensive privilege if all your college friends have an
> iPhone and you alone are on Verizon.
Yeah, it would be if those message weren't included. Just think how many
Verizon users have to text their iPhone-packing friends "Dude, didn't you
get the picture message I just sent you? ...Oh, that's right- you can't
receive picture messages!" ;-)
> Many colleges are giving iPhones
> to their students this year and everyone gets a big discount from AT&T
> for college use.
I suspect a large number of college students are on their parents' family
plans as additional users, so they have little direct control over what
carrier they get to use.
> Then there is that unlimited Verizon Data which is capped at 5GB. Go
> over and its is $0.25 PER MB data.
That doesn't apply to on-phone data use- only to tethering, which isn't
applicable to this comparison, again, because one of them are unable to!
From the above URL:
"Get Unlimited Messaging, VZ Navigator, Mobile Email, and V CAST VPak plus
unlimited megabytes for Mobile Web 2.0 and Get It Now on select Verizon
Wireless phones."
> That means if you use 6 GB (5GB + 1GB over) you could owe the big Vz a
> $250 data overcharge for that month. Whoa Monkey!
See above... "unlimited megabytes."
> With those kinds of dollar signs in their eyes it is no wonder that VZ
> can give away those iPhone clones and wannabes they stock.
While I agree Verizon is the most expensive nationwide carrier, AT&T does a
phenomenal job of "trying harder" in second place.
> Its all about that contract they nail you to, that is were the Verizon
> money is.
And AT&T is different exactly how? Am I missing the no-contract option for
iPhone 3G?
Verizon's Anti-iPhone Propaganda 
Linear Mode
