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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 02:17 AM
larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Who is sales.liveperson.net??

Go to the VZW public website and don't login if you have an account.

Set your browser up so you can watch what it connects to and downloads
from, including Doubleclick, damn them.

Browse into the plans, individual plans and pick one. Click the button
to open the plan and watch what it goes to in the
tray.....sales.liveperson.net

Is VZW watching or logging what you do while looking through the sales
brochure? AS long as you have the webpage open, the browser is
transferring data from sales.liveperson.net. What are they transferring
when you're not doing anything but reading it, not clicking?

They've got lots of scripts to Coremetrics loaded, too:
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://cache.vzw.com/js/shared/coremetrics/v31/eluminate.js">
</script>
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://cache.vzw.com/js/shared/coremetrics/v31/techprops.js">
</script>
<script type="text/javascript"
src="http://cache.vzw.com/js/shared/coremetrics/cmdatatagutils.inc">
</script>

Don'tcha love it when webpage A shares data with company B while you're
just looking at their spam?

It also starts davcdata.exe running an IIS server, maybe to coremetrics
as I see test.coremetrics.com accessing the browser.

Then, if you just leave it sit, you get a popup window warning you they
are going to turn off your VZW browsing if you don't "do anything" in 5
minutes, making me even more suspicious someone is WATCHING what you do
and what you click. They want to get you offline to stop the data
flowing uselessly back to their system....obviously.

Y'all try it....and read the core codes.

It also keeps a connection to an http port on 130.94.77.118:http that
has no dns lookup or whois in any database. The trace goes to:
15 129.250.2.85 62ms 76ms 76ms TTL: 0 (xe-1-
1.r01.stngva01.us.bb.gin.ntt.net ok)
16 129.250.28.204 84ms 90ms 79ms TTL: 0 (mg-
1.c20.stngva01.us.da.verio.net probable bogus rDNS: No DNS)
17 161.58.157.141 122ms 110ms 65ms TTL: 0 (No rDNS)
where it dies in stng.VA on verio.net.

If I kill it, lots of internal active ports also closes.

Keystroke monitoring and recording? Spying on people?

What does it do?

It forces Firefox to close if you dump this IP. I've never seen this
kind of penetration from any other website.



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 03:43 AM
Steve Sobol
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

In alt.cellular.verizon, you wrote:

> Browse into the plans, individual plans and pick one. Click the button
> to open the plan and watch what it goes to in the
> tray.....sales.liveperson.net


> Is VZW watching or logging what you do while looking through the sales
> brochure? AS long as you have the webpage open, the browser is
> transferring data from sales.liveperson.net. What are they transferring
> when you're not doing anything but reading it, not clicking?



Um, Larry. Did you visit www.liveperson.net? OK, actually, the .net homepage
has a link to liveperson.COM, that's where you need to go.
They run a hosted chat service used by many large companies to aid in
customer service. Kinda like an outsourced online call center.

They do offer some tracking services, but those services give Verizon
nothing they couldn't get by using Google Analytics or a similar hosted
metrics service or program... stuff that your browser would tell them anyhow.
(City, state, etc. are identifiable from your IP address.)

I don't see where the liveperson link is, it doesn't seem to be on the home
page, but I can guarantee that on the page that transfers data from sales.
liveperson.net, there is a Click-to-Talk-to-VZW button somewhere.

> Don'tcha love it when webpage A shares data with company B while you're
> just looking at their spam?


What personally identifiable data do you think they are collecting? Note that
I said PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE. Anyone can get your IP address, HTTP User-Agent
string (which tells which browser and OS you use), and several other basic
pieces of data with no effort at all. None of those pieces of data identifies
you as Larry. Now, if you are logged into a website using a username and
password, that's different, but you probably had to give them information in
the first place, to gain the ability to log in.

Am I saying they're not doing anything they shouldn't be? No. What I AM saying
is that you probably need to do a little research before you start yelling
"conspiracy" here.

> Then, if you just leave it sit, you get a popup window warning you they
> are going to turn off your VZW browsing if you don't "do anything" in 5
> minutes, making me even more suspicious someone is WATCHING what you do
> and what you click. They want to get you offline to stop the data
> flowing uselessly back to their system....obviously.


> Y'all try it....and read the core codes.


\Why? I have no reason to go to the VZW site. I don't text anyone with a VZW
phone, I'm no longer a VZW customer and I don't plan on becoming one anytime
soon. I believe you. I'm just saying it doesn't affect me.


> If I kill it, lots of internal active ports also closes.


Which ports? Now I'm curious. Do a netstat -an in a DOS window (or shell
prompt if you're on a Linux box). I'm curious what's open.

> Keystroke monitoring and recording? Spying on people?


It's possible they're spying. Is it likely? I doubt it.

Oh, and I noticed a bunch of connections to Akamai. Those have nothing to
do with spying, I can pretty much guarantee it. Akamai runs a caching service
and they have cache servers placed pretty much all over the planet; the idea
is instead of pulling data from www.verizonwireless.com, which may or may not
be close to you in terms of Internet topology... you'll pull a mirror of the
web page you're looking for, from a server that is guaranteed to be close to
you. The idea is to deliver the web page to your web browser in the shortest
amount of time possible.

--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 04:52 AM
larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in
news:slrnfptbna.rk2.sjsobol@amethyst.justthe.net:

> I don't see where the liveperson link is, it doesn't seem to be on the
> home page, but I can guarantee that on the page that transfers data
> from sales. liveperson.net, there is a Click-to-Talk-to-VZW button
> somewhere.
>
>


It's not on the homepage. I saw it connect to some strange IP none of the
DNS servers can make into either a Whois or name server with TCPView. I
forced a disconnect and it reconnected. The livepersons must be watching
what you're doing and at a certain point in the ordering sequence, they
popup a chat window.

It's creepy....


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:10 AM
larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in
news:slrnfptbna.rk2.sjsobol@amethyst.justthe.net:

> What personally identifiable data do you think they are collecting?
> Note that I said PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE. Anyone can get your IP
> address, HTTP User-Agent string (which tells which browser and OS you
> use), and several other basic pieces of data with no effort at all.
> None of those pieces of data identifies you as Larry. Now, if you are
> logged into a website using a username and password, that's different,
> but you probably had to give them information in the first place, to
> gain the ability to log in.
>
>


My computer belongs to the ficticious Melvin Schultz, an old joke name
we hams used to use on old POTS long distance, person-to-person collect,
to alert our buddies far away to get on 3.903 Mhz LSB, our little
group's 75 meter SSB frequency...without paying for the call because
Melvin was never home to receive it collect.

Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own
phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, even two car tags....all
neatly arranged for the scammers into Outlook Express I don't use,
except for baiting. Melvin's yearly income is around $148K, so he gets
great service from everyone! I've spread his phoney identity around the
net for 20 years. Check his credit rating on Equifax! He's AAA+! He
has no debts and always pays his bills.

They can have all of Melvin's identity they like. I'm not on the system
at all. Melvin also has usernames and passwords in lots of places so
the bots can't miss his identity to steal. I've never seen him on the
long list of most wanted posters in the Post Office, though. He DOES
get about 12 really good, pre-approved credit card offers a month, but I
just trash those. No WONDER the financial institutions are in trouble
giving credit cards with LARGE credit limits out to ficticious people.

Oh, and he gets lots of **** SPAM.....It's disgusting! Melvin's a
Baptist Preacher by trade! What would they think?!

------------------------------------------------

No, what upsets me from this scammer is they are following me around the
website just looking at the product. Just like in Circuit City, noone
likes to be trailed around by some salesman running his mouth.....


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:44 AM
Steve Sobol
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

On 2008-01-29, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> It's not on the homepage. I saw it connect to some strange IP none of the
> DNS servers can make into either a Whois or name server with TCPView. I
> forced a disconnect and it reconnected. The livepersons must be watching
> what you're doing and at a certain point in the ordering sequence, they
> popup a chat window.
>
> It's creepy....


Well, although I do think you have the tinfoil hat on too often, there isn't
anything wrong with being cautious. Better to be too cautious than too
careless, for sure, especially these days when there ARE plenty of people
trying to steal your private info for various reasons.

And, for what it's worth, I suspect that it's exactly as you describe: at
some point you get to a web page that uses Liveperson's services. And if
you're not familiar with the service or the company, I can understand why
you'd get a little worried.


--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:52 AM
Steve Sobol
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

On 2008-01-29, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

> Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own
> phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers,


It's probably pretty easy to cook up an obviously phony driver's license
number; most states follow a predictable pattern. But are you absolutely
sure the SSN doesn't belong to someone?

> get about 12 really good, pre-approved credit card offers a month, but I
> just trash those. No WONDER the financial institutions are in trouble
> giving credit cards with LARGE credit limits out to ficticious people.


Well, aside from the fact that pre-approval isn't a guarantee of credit, yeah,
I think it's stupid. My 12-year-old son just received his first credit card
offer. Woohoo!

I still tell the story of an identity theft that wasn't, back in 1998. I
lived in Ohio, and back then the SSN's were still, very stupidly, printed
right on the driver's licenses; a few years later they were made optional, and
I think they've finally Found Clue(tm) and stopped putting them on altogether.

Anyhow, I lost my wallet, and someone drove out to Chicago and started
applying for instant credit at a bunch of department stores. In my name, of
course, using my SSN and driver's license.

The big clue was the letter from Carson Pirie Scott, a Chicago-based
department store. The only store they've EVER had in Ohio was in Toledo,
two hours west of Cleveland, where I lived. And the only reason I'd even
HEARD of Carson Pirie Scott was because many years ago, my father was one of
their suppliers.

The joke was on the thief, though. My credit SUCKED in 1998, and let me tell
you, I was NEVER as happy to have bad credit as I was that summer! (If it
happened now, I'd be screwed...)

After three applications, the loser gave up. But the fact that the department
store drones didn't even check my picture against the guy's face bothers me.

> No, what upsets me from this scammer is they are following me around the
> website just looking at the product. Just like in Circuit City, noone
> likes to be trailed around by some salesman running his mouth.....


So don't go to the VZW website. I don't.


--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 06:25 AM
The Ghost of General Lee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:52:19 +0000 (UTC), Steve Sobol
<sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

>On 2008-01-29, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>
>> Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own
>> phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers,

>
>It's probably pretty easy to cook up an obviously phony driver's license
>number; most states follow a predictable pattern.


SC issues their numbers in sequential order of application. Presuming
Larry got his earlier than 1980, I'd guess his number is < 008100000.
So unless he's using a very high number, chances are he's using a
valid number that has been assigned to someone. If not, he's using a
number that will someday be assigned to someone.

>But are you absolutely
>sure the SSN doesn't belong to someone?


If he uses one that passes the validation test, then again, he's using
one that either has been assigned to someone or likely will be
assigned to someone.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-29-2008, 11:23 AM
DTC
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

larry wrote:
> It's not on the homepage. I saw it connect to some strange IP none of the
> DNS servers can make into either a Whois or name server with TCPView. I
> forced a disconnect and it reconnected. The livepersons must be watching
> what you're doing and at a certain point in the ordering sequence, they
> popup a chat window.
>
> It's creepy....


Sprint does the same thing. On two occasions I was looking at plans
on their web page and a chat window popped up...and I *KNOW* I
didn't click on anything to initiate a chat at MY end.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2008, 01:19 AM
larry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in
news:slrnfptj8m.fcv.sjsobol@amethyst.justthe.net:

> The joke was on the thief, though. My credit SUCKED in 1998, and let
> me tell you, I was NEVER as happy to have bad credit as I was that
> summer! (If it happened now, I'd be screwed...)
>


I love it when some company or other threatens my "credit rating". My
credit has been spotless since I was 18...er, ah....1964...(c; That has
good points and bad points.

Yamaha Motors and their bogus Yamaha Credit Card, which is really a
revolving credit scam from Household Retail Services, old Household
Finance, said that if I didn't pay them for the defective 1997 Yamaha
GP1200 Waverunner PWC I returned to their dealer, who couldn't fix it,
under Magnusson-Moss Warranty Protection Act (15USC50 section 2300), they
were going to ruin my credit.

My lawyer disagreed, of course, and we did everything we could to get the
*******s to trash me. He wanted a new house on the beach and I had my eye
on a new Mercedes S class sedan. We had their *** and they knew it. The
ski disappeared after we told the tax bureaucrats we returned it, and my
credit card pre-approval apps increased unabated.

I haven't had a debt since 1991 when my wife left me. She thought,
wrongly, all credit cards should be at their limits, the American way. I
pay them off before any charges. Chase Bank insisted I take a Chase credit
card after checking me out from an online Amazon credit card I let them
send for a discount on the N800. Chase wanted to cut Amazon out of the
loop, so wanted me to stop using my Bank of America Quantum card I've had
for 20 years and start using a Chase Business Card with my little
electronics company logo on it and 3% cashback on all purchases. They
started me with a $75K line of credit, but soon raised it to $100K after
only a month, for what reason remains a mystery. Where would you like to
go on the planet, tomorrow...(c; Chase thinks I'm a Micro$oft...(c;

If I cared what my credit score was, I'd worry. I don't care and haven't
since 1991. The feeling is wonderful....I can live quite comfortably
without debt on lots less money and worry.


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2008, 01:28 AM
larry
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

The Ghost of General Lee <ghost@general.lee> wrote in
news:5fjtp35lcvfosumamuq1hn890m6n9qfpmt@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:52:19 +0000 (UTC), Steve Sobol
> <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>
>>On 2008-01-29, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own
>>> phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers,

>>
>>It's probably pretty easy to cook up an obviously phony driver's

license
>>number; most states follow a predictable pattern.

>
> SC issues their numbers in sequential order of application. Presuming
> Larry got his earlier than 1980, I'd guess his number is < 008100000.
> So unless he's using a very high number, chances are he's using a
> valid number that has been assigned to someone. If not, he's using a
> number that will someday be assigned to someone.
>
>>But are you absolutely
>>sure the SSN doesn't belong to someone?

>
> If he uses one that passes the validation test, then again, he's using
> one that either has been assigned to someone or likely will be
> assigned to someone.
>
>


Ok, let's get something straight. I'm not USING any numbers. Those
numbers exist only in my computer registry and are never transmitted to
anyone for any purpose. My SC drivers license number only has 7
significant digits from 1966. My number is lots older than 008, it's
0031

Oh, you guys should see a drivers license from SC before WW2! It was a
METAL TAG hand stanped out with only a number on it! I found one in a
thrift shop for $1 and they didn't know what it was until I told 'em.
Way cool. This one's dated 1936!

Melvin's SC drivers license number starts with 0000 and is very old. I
bet he's DEAD! To put your minds at ease about his SSN, he has my
mother's SSN. She died in my arms in 1999 of Parkinson's Disease and
could care less.

Oh, Melvin also has an old 1966 Navy serial number one number off mine.
It belonged to a buddy I went to boot camp with. He died in Vietnam in
a river boat firefight in the Mekong Delta. He's not coming back,
either.




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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2008, 02:40 AM
The Ghost of General Lee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:28:32 +0000, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

>The Ghost of General Lee <ghost@general.lee> wrote in
>news:5fjtp35lcvfosumamuq1hn890m6n9qfpmt@4ax.com :
>
>> On Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:52:19 +0000 (UTC), Steve Sobol
>> <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2008-01-29, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own
>>>> phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers,
>>>
>>>It's probably pretty easy to cook up an obviously phony driver's

>license
>>>number; most states follow a predictable pattern.

>>
>> SC issues their numbers in sequential order of application. Presuming
>> Larry got his earlier than 1980, I'd guess his number is < 008100000.
>> So unless he's using a very high number, chances are he's using a
>> valid number that has been assigned to someone. If not, he's using a
>> number that will someday be assigned to someone.
>>
>>>But are you absolutely
>>>sure the SSN doesn't belong to someone?

>>
>> If he uses one that passes the validation test, then again, he's using
>> one that either has been assigned to someone or likely will be
>> assigned to someone.
>>

>
>Ok, let's get something straight. I'm not USING any numbers. Those
>numbers exist only in my computer registry and are never transmitted to
>anyone for any purpose.


Let's back up a minute. You said:

>Melvin has phoney credit card numbers, bank account numbers, his own
>phoney SSN and SC drivers license numbers, even two car tags....all
>neatly arranged for the scammers into Outlook Express I don't use,
>except for baiting. Melvin's yearly income is around $148K, so he gets
>great service from everyone! I've spread his phoney identity around the
>net for 20 years. Check his credit rating on Equifax! He's AAA+! He
>has no debts and always pays his bills.


Which means you are either lying now, or you lied then. So which is
it, Lyin' Larry? If you aren't *USING* those numbers, then why are
they in your computer? Baiting for what? And how did you "spread"
this falsified identity around without using these numbers which you
had no lawful right to use?

>My SC drivers license number only has 7
>significant digits from 1966. My number is lots older than 008, it's
>0031


Yeah, so? What part of "<" (or less than) did you not understand?

>Oh, you guys should see a drivers license from SC before WW2! It was a
>METAL TAG hand stanped out with only a number on it! I found one in a
>thrift shop for $1 and they didn't know what it was until I told 'em.
>Way cool. This one's dated 1936!


*** does this have to do with anything? You just trying to deflect
attention from how big of a liar you are again.

>Melvin's SC drivers license number starts with 0000 and is very old. I
>bet he's DEAD!


But it likely was issued to someone, and would never be re-issued to
anyone else in the future. Theefore, you are still using someone
else's DL number, even if they are dead.

>To put your minds at ease about his SSN, he has my
>mother's SSN. She died in my arms in 1999 of Parkinson's Disease and
>could care less.


I'll bet SSA would have a different view of that statement. You are
still using the SSN of someone else. It really doesn't matter if they
are dead or alive, since they never get recycled.

>Oh, Melvin also has an old 1966 Navy serial number one number off mine.
>It belonged to a buddy I went to boot camp with. He died in Vietnam in
>a river boat firefight in the Mekong Delta. He's not coming back,
>either.


Surprise, surprise! Larry's using someone else's government issued ID
number. You are no better than the people who falsify documents for
illegal aliens.


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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2008, 02:42 AM
The Ghost of General Lee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:19:34 +0000, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

>I haven't had a debt since 1991 when my wife left me.


She finally sobered up, huh?


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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2008, 06:33 PM
Steve Sobol
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

On 2008-01-30, larry <noone@home.com> wrote:

>> The joke was on the thief, though. My credit SUCKED in 1998, and let
>> me tell you, I was NEVER as happy to have bad credit as I was that
>> summer! (If it happened now, I'd be screwed...)
>>

>
> I love it when some company or other threatens my "credit rating". My
> credit has been spotless since I was 18...er, ah....1964...(c; That has
> good points and bad points.


Definitely a double-edged sword. The good points are obvious. The bad
points, perhaps not so much. There is the identity-theft angle... lots
more at stake when you're up near 750 or 800 than when you're around
400 or 500. Then, you also have to keep a very close eye on your bills
and make sure the banks, etc. don't screw up your accounts. (What?
Yes, I know. Banks are perfect. Sorry I said anything. :>)



--
Steve Sobol, Victorville, CA PGP:0xE3AE35ED www.SteveSobol.com
Geek-for-hire. Details: http://www.linkedin.com/in/stevesobol


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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2008, 07:25 PM
Bill Kearney
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Who is sales.liveperson.net??

> since 1991 when my wife left me.

Oh now THERE'S a surprise...



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