1st PC build

Hey Guys,

I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a
gaming computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro
(from my old computer). Here are my core components, first revision:

ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
AMD 64 X2 5000+ Windsor
Geforce 7950GT KO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
Segate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA (x2)
RAID 0 configuration
Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory (x2)
NEC DVD+R 3550A
Samsung 204B
NeoPower 550W
Antec P-180B Case
Logitech MX1000
Logitech G15

Do you think that all these pieces will function well together? Here is
a list of the games that I would like to play on it: Rise of Nations,
Rise of Legends, Civilization 4, Command and Conquer: The First Decade,
Command and Conquer 3 (when it comes out), and Star Wars: Empire at
War. My price window is $2100 - 2400. Thanks for the help.

bryant.rossiter@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a
> gaming computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro
> (from my old computer). Here are my core components, first revision:
>
> ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
> AMD 64 X2 5000+ Windsor
> Geforce 7950GT KO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
> Segate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA (x2)
> RAID 0 configuration
> Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory (x2)
> NEC DVD+R 3550A
> Samsung 204B
> NeoPower 550W
> Antec P-180B Case
> Logitech MX1000
> Logitech G15
>
> Do you think that all these pieces will function well together? Here is
> a list of the games that I would like to play on it: Rise of Nations,
> Rise of Legends, Civilization 4, Command and Conquer: The First Decade,
> Command and Conquer 3 (when it comes out), and Star Wars: Empire at
> War. My price window is $2100 - 2400. Thanks for the help.

I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice because of the
basic need to keep them powered. And because they're less reliable than
wired keyboards, and that's NOT a good thing in gameplay. Interference,
low battery, and so on.

Also, there are a small handful of games that actually support the LCD
thing on your keyboard. And most of those need a patch applied first.

http://www.logitech.com/promotions/p...ontentid=11264

I haven't turned up any obvious hardware incompatibilities. The budget
is your own problem to solve, though avoid tiger direct. There have
been multiple complaints on these newsgroups and other forums. I don't
know which, if any of your products are being offered there, but just
in case....

Other than my preference to lose the wireless keyboard and mouse,
you've got a respectable system. Some people swear by wireless mice, I
just swear AT them.

paulmd@efn.org wrote:
> bryant.rossiter@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hey Guys,
>>
>> I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a
>> gaming computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro
>> (from my old computer). Here are my core components, first revision:
>>
>> ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
>> AMD 64 X2 5000+ Windsor
>> Geforce 7950GT KO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
>> Segate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA (x2)
>> RAID 0 configuration
>> Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory
>> (x2) NEC DVD+R 3550A
>> Samsung 204B
>> NeoPower 550W
>> Antec P-180B Case
>> Logitech MX1000
>> Logitech G15
>>
>> Do you think that all these pieces will function well together? Here
>> is a list of the games that I would like to play on it: Rise of
>> Nations, Rise of Legends, Civilization 4, Command and Conquer: The
>> First Decade, Command and Conquer 3 (when it comes out), and Star
>> Wars: Empire at War. My price window is $2100 - 2400. Thanks for the
>> help.

> I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice
> because of the basic need to keep them powered.

Completely routine when they are properly designed.

> And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,

Pure drivel.

> and that's NOT a good thing in gameplay.
> Interference, low battery, and so on.

Completely trivial to ensure you cant get a low battery when it matters.

> Also, there are a small handful of games that actually support the LCD
> thing on your keyboard. And most of those need a patch applied first.

> http://www.logitech.com/promotions/p...ontentid=11264

Maybe he doesnt care with games.

> I haven't turned up any obvious hardware incompatibilities. The
> budget is your own problem to solve, though avoid tiger direct. There
> have been multiple complaints on these newsgroups and other forums. I
> don't know which, if any of your products are being offered there,
> but just in case....

> Other than my preference to lose the wireless keyboard
> and mouse, you've got a respectable system. Some
> people swear by wireless mice, I just swear AT them.

More fool you, there are plenty of decent ones around.

Rod Speed wrote:
> paulmd@efn.org wrote:
> > bryant.rossiter@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Hey Guys,
> >>
> >> I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a
> >> gaming computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro
> >> (from my old computer). Here are my core components, first revision:
> >>
> >> ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
> >> AMD 64 X2 5000+ Windsor
> >> Geforce 7950GT KO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
> >> Segate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA (x2)
> >> RAID 0 configuration
> >> Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory
> >> (x2) NEC DVD+R 3550A
> >> Samsung 204B
> >> NeoPower 550W
> >> Antec P-180B Case
> >> Logitech MX1000
> >> Logitech G15
> >>
> >> Do you think that all these pieces will function well together? Here
> >> is a list of the games that I would like to play on it: Rise of
> >> Nations, Rise of Legends, Civilization 4, Command and Conquer: The
> >> First Decade, Command and Conquer 3 (when it comes out), and Star
> >> Wars: Empire at War. My price window is $2100 - 2400. Thanks for the
> >> help.
>
> > I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice
> > because of the basic need to keep them powered.
>
> Completely routine when they are properly designed.

Routine if properly designed. Still annoying to change the battery when
you really have better things to do. Even if it takes 10 seconds, it's
simply not an issue with a wired keyboard. And 10 seconds means
something in games.
>
> > And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,
>
> Pure drivel.
>
EVERYTHING wireless is vunelrable to inteferece and limits of range.
Cell phones are less reliable than land lines, cable is more reliable
than rabbit ears and sattellite. Reliability is sacrificed to
portability. At a pricehike.

Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.

> > and that's NOT a good thing in gameplay.
> > Interference, low battery, and so on.
>
> Completely trivial to ensure you cant get a low battery when it matters.

Babysitting that is completely unnecessiary with a wired system.

> > Also, there are a small handful of games that actually support the LCD
> > thing on your keyboard. And most of those need a patch applied first.
>
> > http://www.logitech.com/promotions/p...ontentid=11264
>
> Maybe he doesnt care with games.

He still needs to be informed. Why pay for the LCD screen when he can't
use it? It's a hundred dollar keyboard. And a $50 mouse. You can get
wired ones MUCH cheaper, and not have to maintain them or change their
diapers, put them to bed or any such nonsense.

A black Usb keyboard has be had for $10-$25, even under $5. A mouse can
be had for next to nothing.

http://www.provantage.com/kensington-64370~7KNSK00L.htm
http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail.as..._id=bwbfroogle


And you may have not noticed, but Games are his primary reason for
having the system.

>
> > I haven't turned up any obvious hardware incompatibilities. The
> > budget is your own problem to solve, though avoid tiger direct. There
> > have been multiple complaints on these newsgroups and other forums. I
> > don't know which, if any of your products are being offered there,
> > but just in case....
>
> > Other than my preference to lose the wireless keyboard
> > and mouse, you've got a respectable system. Some
> > people swear by wireless mice, I just swear AT them.
>
> More fool you, there are plenty of decent ones around.

After the first couple I tried, I've encountered the same issues over
and over again. And trying the same thing over and over again and
expecting different results is just dumb.

Multiple computers in proximity with same brand mouse: problem, dead
battery; problem, having to press the reset button: problem. Other
wireless devices may intefere, and reduce the effective range of the
mouse/ keyboard: problem. Pluging in a keyboard and watching it Just
Work is by far more reliable, with virtually no maintinence, AND
cheaper.

And wireless mice and keyboards AREN'T that wireless, you still have to
plug in a sending unit, often a bulky, ackward one. Recent ones have
improved, but not enough.

If you're happy with yours, I won't make you change them. But chosing
between cheap technology with no maintainence, and expensive, and less
reliable techology with high maintainence and few, if any benefits, is
a no-brainer.

In article <1157263419.861508.267420@74g2000cwt.googlegroups. com>,
"bryant.rossiter@gmail.com" <bryant.rossiter@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Guys,
>
> I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a
> gaming computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro
> (from my old computer). Here are my core components, first revision:
>
> ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
> AMD 64 X2 5000+ Windsor
> Geforce 7950GT KO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
> Segate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA (x2)
> RAID 0 configuration
> Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory (x2)
> NEC DVD+R 3550A
> Samsung 204B
> NeoPower 550W
> Antec P-180B Case
> Logitech MX1000
> Logitech G15
>
> Do you think that all these pieces will function well together? Here is
> a list of the games that I would like to play on it: Rise of Nations,
> Rise of Legends, Civilization 4, Command and Conquer: The First Decade,
> Command and Conquer 3 (when it comes out), and Star Wars: Empire at
> War. My price window is $2100 - 2400. Thanks for the help.

The only comment I'd add to the wireless keyboard mouse
discussion, is:

http://groups.google.ca/groups?lnk=h...e+keyboard+lag

Paul

<paulmd@efn.org> wrote in message
news:1157280466.476209.274090@74g2000cwt.googlegro ups.com...
>>
>> > I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice
>> > because of the basic need to keep them powered.
>>
>> Completely routine when they are properly designed.
>
> Routine if properly designed. Still annoying to change the battery
> when
> you really have better things to do. Even if it takes 10 seconds,
> it's
> simply not an issue with a wired keyboard. And 10 seconds means
> something in games.

Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The keyboard
rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless? The
only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be farther
away than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come with very
long cords, either. I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE
voltage gets too low to affect behavior. Remember when inside a game
that you won't see a tray icon that may show you voltage level of the
batteries (and I've yet to see such a tray icon which means you have
to periodically go check using the Control Panel applet). Also, the
polling rate for wireless mices is much slower. You might try to up
the sampling rate and buffer size but that won't affect the polling
rate between the wireless mouse and the receiver. I've tried 7
wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a couple of the
low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay than a wired
mouse. Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the small
jerkiness in movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play
undemanding and slow games.

Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse
manufacturer. I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or
Microsoft but that's because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often
and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less jerky
(but still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not noticable
by lots of users).

>> > And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,
>>
>> Pure drivel.
>>
> EVERYTHING wireless is vunelrable to inteferece and limits of range.
> Cell phones are less reliable than land lines, cable is more
> reliable
> than rabbit ears and sattellite. Reliability is sacrificed to
> portability. At a pricehike.

That isn't the only problem. Wireless mice are supposed to have a
working range of up to 15 feet. True and not true. Some won't work
if the mouse if more than 3 feet away from the receiver. Be careful
what you place between the receiver and mouse. Yes, RF mice don't
need line-of-sight but hiding the receiver on the other side of a
metallic system case or behind a monitor can result in poor reception.

There is also the problem of one wireless mouse affecting another.
Since working range if 15 feet, in a company setting with cublicles
and offices close together, one user will wonder why their mouse
cursor is moving without touching the mouse. It's interference from
another user. Hell, in one case at work, we found the culprit
conflicting mouse was up one floor and 50 feet over (so obviously the
working range happened to be pretty far). We managed to correct that
problem but you can't always find different channels on which to set
the wireless mice so they won't interfere, and most only give you 2
"channels". In a home environment with just one computer, this
interference isn't a problem (unless you're in an apartment near the
same wall where the next tenant also has their computer and wireless
mouse), but then 2 channels is probably sufficient when to resync the
devices to eliminate the interference.

For wireless mice, and because they don't last that long, now they're
making cradles to keep the batteries recharged (to hide the poor
longevity). Some, like IBM and Microsoft, make the mouse go to sleep
sooner and wake up slower (than Logitech) in an attempt to increase
battery life. When you game a lot, the batteries deplete much faster
because there are no low-power use times (notice the LED will flicker
between high and low power modes if you have a wireless mouse with
translucent sides). Also, if you use a dark mouse pad or surface then
the batteries deplete faster, and most mouse pads are dark and so are
most desktop surfaces. If you use your mouse for word processing for
6 hours per day at work the batteries will last a lot longer than if
you play games for those same 6 hours.

Also remember that wireless mice weigh more than wired mice. Why?
Because of the weight of the batteries. If you choose to use a mouse
(instead of a trackball), you will invariably end up having to lift
the mouse over and over to reposition it on the mouse pad or desktop.
Yeah, you could up the acceleration and speed but then you loose
granularity and control. So how do you pick up the mouse for all that
repositioning? By squeezing it between your fingers (thumb and pinky
usually). Your pinky can get tired after hours and hours of mouse
use, especially with a heavier mouse that has to house batteries. If
you can arrange that the cord is unfettered so it doesn't snag and
also doesn't hit anything (to eliminate torqueing on the mouse from
restricted cord movement), a wired mouse is much less effort to move
over extended periods of use. My fingers got sore from prolonged use
of a wireless mouse because of the extra weight. I also don't go
deliberately looking for keyboards that have the hardest keys to
press, either.

Wireless mice are pricier. Break a wired one and its replacement is
cheap. Break or lose a wireless mouse and you'll waste time hunting
around for a better price or rethinking your original choice. Also
consider the expense of batteries. Unless you get one with a cradle,
you will need to buy lots of alkaline batteries or you will need to
get the rechargeable batteries (that don't last a long per charge as
the single-use of non-rechargeables) along with a charger. If you get
one with a recharging cradle, you'll get pissed off everytime you
leave the computer to come back to find that you forgot to cradle your
wireless mouse when you left, and now your mouse is still dead while
you wait for it to charge.

And getting a wireless mouse does NOT reduce the number of cords,
anyway. You're still stuck with the corded receiver. Most users get
wireless mice because it's a fad, cool, more technology, or newer, not
because they need wireless.

> Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.

Likewise when battery level goes low, you'll start to hear users in
the cubicles start swearing and banging harder on the keys until you
wander over to have a check and then replace the batteries.

There are good reasons of when or why to get wireless devices.
However, few of them come into play for users that choose them.

bryant.rossiter@gmail.com wrote:
> Hey Guys,
>
> I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a
> gaming computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro
> (from my old computer).

Heya

Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version then
that will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot transfer it to
a new PC - it sucks, but it's the rules.

I'll chip in on the wireless keyboard/mouse thing. I had a pair of
Creative keyboard/mouse sets and they were nothing but trouble. Back to
wired now. I have however used newer wireless mice that are fine and
last ages. Read the reviews, spend yer money, takes yer pick!

Alex

paulmd@efn.org wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>> bryant.rossiter@gmail.com wrote

>>>> I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a gaming
>>>> computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro (from
>>>> my old computer). Here are my core components, first revision:

>>>> ASUS M2N32-SLI Deluxe Wireless Edition
>>>> AMD 64 X2 5000+ Windsor
>>>> Geforce 7950GT KO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16
>>>> Segate Barracuda 7200.10 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA (x2)
>>>> RAID 0 configuration
>>>> Kingston 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) System Memory
>>>> (x2) NEC DVD+R 3550A
>>>> Samsung 204B
>>>> NeoPower 550W
>>>> Antec P-180B Case
>>>> Logitech MX1000
>>>> Logitech G15

>>>> Do you think that all these pieces will function well together?
>>>> Here is a list of the games that I would like to play on it: Rise
>>>> of Nations, Rise of Legends, Civilization 4, Command and Conquer:
>>>> The First Decade, Command and Conquer 3 (when it comes out), and
>>>> Star Wars: Empire at War. My price window is $2100 - 2400.

>>> I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice
>>> because of the basic need to keep them powered.

>> Completely routine when they are properly designed.

> Routine if properly designed. Still annoying to change
> the battery when you really have better things to do.

With a properly designed system, you dont have to ever change
the batterys, you just put the mouse in the charger overnight etc.

Some allow you to plug the charger cable into the mouse,
so at worst its the same as a wired mouse when charging,
and you have the freedom of a wireless mouse when its not.

And a properly designed system gives heaps of warning
about the battery so you can go all day with the battery
warning led flashing and just put it in the charger that
evening when you have finished using it too.

> Even if it takes 10 seconds, it's simply not an issue with a
> wired keyboard. And 10 seconds means something in games.

Anyone with a clue checks the battery status before starting
the game, and see above on the low battery status anyway.

>>> And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,

>> Pure drivel.

> EVERYTHING wireless is vunelrable to inteferece and limits of range.

In theory, yes. In practice that range is so much more
than you need with a keyboard and mouse that its just
not a problem with a properly designed system. The
bluetooth mice and keyboards have so much excess range that
the problem is still being able to see the monitor, not dropouts.

> Cell phones are less reliable than land lines, cable is more reliable
> than rabbit ears and sattellite. Reliability is sacrificed to portability.

Not with a properly designed wireless mouse and keyboard it isnt.

> Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.

Only if you are stupid enough to buy shit. He wasnt asking about shit.

>>> and that's NOT a good thing in gameplay.
>>> Interference, low battery, and so on.

>> Completely trivial to ensure you cant get a low battery when it matters.

> Babysitting that is completely unnecessiary with a wired system.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to manage with a system
that gives you a full day warning of the battery needing to be charged.

>>> Also, there are a small handful of games that actually support the LCD
>>> thing on your keyboard. And most of those need a patch applied first.

>>> http://www.logitech.com/promotions/p...ontentid=11264

>> Maybe he doesnt care with games.

> He still needs to be informed.

No he doesnt necessarily with games, because there is the monitor too.

> Why pay for the LCD screen when he can't use it?

You aint established that he cant use it with future games.

> It's a hundred dollar keyboard. And a $50 mouse. You can
> get wired ones MUCH cheaper, and not have to maintain them
> or change their diapers, put them to bed or any such nonsense.

Even someone as stupid as you should be able to handle the charging.

> A black Usb keyboard has be had for $10-$25, even under $5.
> A mouse can be had for next to nothing.

> http://www.provantage.com/kensington-64370~7KNSK00L.htm
> http://www.onsale.com/shop/detail.as..._id=bwbfroogle

Only a fool uses a non optical mouse.

> And you may have not noticed, but Games
> are his primary reason for having the system.

Irrelevant to whether he actually needs the LCD display with all games.

>>> I haven't turned up any obvious hardware incompatibilities. The
>>> budget is your own problem to solve, though avoid tiger direct.
>>> There have been multiple complaints on these newsgroups and other
>>> forums. I don't know which, if any of your products are being
>>> offered there, but just in case....

>>> Other than my preference to lose the wireless keyboard
>>> and mouse, you've got a respectable system. Some
>>> people swear by wireless mice, I just swear AT them.

>> More fool you, there are plenty of decent ones around.

> After the first couple I tried, I've encountered
> the same issues over and over again.

You should have had enough of a clue to get a decent one in the first place.

> And trying the same thing over and over again
> and expecting different results is just dumb.

Even someone a stupid as you should have noticed that there
must be decently designed wireless mice and keyboards around.

> Multiple computers in proximity with same brand mouse:

Handled fine by properly designed systems.

And you aint established that that is relevant to him anyway.

> problem, dead battery;

You get plenty of warning of battery charging with a properly designed
system and you dont even need that if you put it on the charger every night.

> problem, having to press the reset button: problem.

How odd that I never need to do that. Might just be because I have a
properly designed Logitech and arent stupid enough to buy cheap shit.

> Other wireless devices may intefere, and reduce
> the effective range of the mouse/ keyboard: problem.

Doesnt happen with a properly designed system. I have hordes
of other wireless devices and dont get any problem like that at all.

> Pluging in a keyboard and watching it Just Work is by far
> more reliable, with virtually no maintinence, AND cheaper.

Pity about when the cable fails.

Pity about the babysitting that inevitable with a non optical mouse.

> And wireless mice and keyboards AREN'T that wireless,

You obviously have never used one that is properly designed.

> you still have to plug in a sending unit,

Even you should be able to manage to do that, if someone was actually
stupid enough to lend you a seeing eye dog and a white cane.

> often a bulky, ackward one.

Anyone with a clue uses a mouse that drops into a charger.
Its no bigger than the mouse, let alone the keyboard, stupid.

> Recent ones have improved, but not enough.

Wrong, as always.

> If you're happy with yours, I won't make you change them.

You wont make anyone do anything you egotistic clown.

> But chosing between cheap technology with no maintainence,

Lie with a non optical mouse.

> and expensive, and less reliable techology with high maintainence

Lie with a decent designed system.

> and few, if any benefits,

Another silly lie.

> is a no-brainer.

You're the no brainer, nothing viable between the ears.

Vanguard <vanguard.news@yahooNIX.com> wrote
> <paulmd@efn.org> wrote

>>>> I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice
>>>> because of the basic need to keep them powered.

>>> Completely routine when they are properly designed.

>> Routine if properly designed. Still annoying to change the battery when
>> you really have better things to do. Even if it takes 10 seconds, it's
>> simply not an issue with a wired keyboard. And 10 seconds means
>> something in games.

> Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The keyboard
> rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?

Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

> The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be farther away
> than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come with very long cords,
> either.

Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.

> I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low to affect
> behavior.

You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low battery.

And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough
to turn the led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.

> Remember when inside a game that you won't see a tray icon that may show you
> voltage level of the batteries

That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.

> (and I've yet to see such a tray icon

Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.

> which means you have to periodically go check using the Control Panel applet).

Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.

> Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.

Wrong again.

> You might try to up the sampling rate and buffer size but that won't affect
> the polling rate between the wireless mouse and the receiver.

Not a problem with a properly designed system.

> I've tried 7 wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a couple of the
> low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay than a wired mouse.

You clearly didnt try the MX700.

> Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
> switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the small jerkiness
> in movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play undemanding and slow
> games.

You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.

> Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse manufacturer.

Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.

> I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or Microsoft but that's
> because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often

Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.

> and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less jerky (but
> still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not noticable by lots of
> users).

It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.

>>>> And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,

>>> Pure drivel.

>> EVERYTHING wireless is vunelrable to inteferece and limits of range. Cell
>> phones are less reliable than land lines, cable is more reliable than rabbit
>> ears and sattellite. Reliability is sacrificed to portability. At a
>> pricehike.

> That isn't the only problem.

It doesnt actually happen with a properly designed system.

> Wireless mice are supposed to have a working range of up to 15 feet. True and
> not true. Some won't work if the mouse if more than 3 feet away from the
> receiver.

Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.

> Be careful what you place between the receiver and mouse. Yes, RF mice don't
> need line-of-sight but hiding the receiver on the other side of a metallic
> system case or behind a monitor can result in poor reception.

Even you should be able to avoid that situation.

> There is also the problem of one wireless mouse affecting another.

Not with a properly designed system.

> Since working range if 15 feet, in a company setting with cublicles
> and offices close together, one user will wonder why their mouse
> cursor is moving without touching the mouse. It's interference from
> another user. Hell, in one case at work, we found the culprit
> conflicting mouse was up one floor and 50 feet over (so obviously the
> working range happened to be pretty far). We managed to correct that
> problem but you can't always find different channels on which to set
> the wireless mice so they won't interfere, and most only give you 2
> "channels". In a home environment

Which just happens to be the situation being discussed.

> with just one computer, this interference isn't a problem (unless you're in an
> apartment near the same wall where the next tenant also has their computer and
> wireless mouse),

It has to be the same system too.

> but then 2 channels is probably sufficient when to resync the devices to
> eliminate the interference.

> For wireless mice, and because they don't last that long, now they're making
> cradles to keep the batteries recharged (to hide the poor longevity).

Nope, because thats more convenient than farting around changing batterys.

You've likely noticed cordless phones use the same system.

> Some, like IBM and Microsoft, make the mouse go to sleep sooner and wake up
> slower (than Logitech) in an attempt to increase
> battery life. When you game a lot, the batteries deplete much faster
> because there are no low-power use times (notice the LED will flicker
> between high and low power modes if you have a wireless mouse with
> translucent sides). Also, if you use a dark mouse pad or surface then
> the batteries deplete faster, and most mouse pads are dark and so are
> most desktop surfaces. If you use your mouse for word processing for
> 6 hours per day at work the batteries will last a lot longer than if
> you play games for those same 6 hours.

The Logitechs all last more than a day even when the batterys
have aged considerably so that is completely academic.

> Also remember that wireless mice weigh more than wired mice.

I dont care. Its weight is fine anyway.

> Why? Because of the weight of the batteries. If you choose to use a mouse
> (instead of a trackball), you will invariably end up having to lift
> the mouse over and over to reposition it on the mouse pad or desktop.

Even a weakling like you should be able to manage that fine.

> Yeah, you could up the acceleration and speed but then you loose granularity
> and control. So how do you pick up the mouse for all that repositioning? By
> squeezing it between your fingers (thumb and pinky usually).

Wrong again.

> Your pinky can get tired after hours and hours of mouse use, especially with a
> heavier mouse that has to house batteries.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

> If you can arrange that the cord is unfettered so it doesn't snag and also
> doesn't hit anything (to eliminate torqueing on the mouse from restricted cord
> movement), a wired mouse is much less effort to move over extended periods of
> use.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

> My fingers got sore from prolonged use of a wireless mouse because of the
> extra weight.

Not everyone is a puny as you.

> I also don't go deliberately looking for keyboards that have the hardest keys
> to press, either.

Not everyone is a puny as you.

> Wireless mice are pricier. Break a wired one and its replacement is cheap.
> Break or lose a wireless mouse and you'll waste time hunting around for a
> better price or rethinking your original choice.

So dont break it, stupid.

> Also consider the expense of batteries.

No thanks, I had enough of a clue to get one with a charging cradle.

> Unless you get one with a cradle, you will need to buy lots of alkaline
> batteries

Only fools are actually that stupid.

> or you will need to get the rechargeable batteries (that don't last a long per
> charge as the single-use of non-rechargeables) along with a charger.

Anyone with a clue buys one with a charging cradle.

> If you get one with a recharging cradle, you'll get pissed off everytime you
> leave the computer to come back to find that you forgot to cradle your
> wireless mouse when you left, and now your mouse is still dead while you wait
> for it to charge.

You've clearly never used one. A properly designed one will
go for days between charges, will give enough of a warning
about low battery that you can still use it all day and put it on
the charger when you stop using it that night, and will recharge
fully during the lunch break etc anyway.

> And getting a wireless mouse does NOT reduce the number of cords, anyway.

It does where the cords matter, at the keyboard and mouse.

> You're still stuck with the corded receiver.

Since you never move that around, thats irrelevant.

> Most users get wireless mice because it's a fad, cool, more technology, or
> newer, not because they need wireless.

You can make the same stupid claim about the PC too.

>> Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.

> Likewise when battery level goes low, you'll start to hear users in
> the cubicles start swearing and banging harder on the keys until you wander
> over to have a check and then replace the batteries.

Not everyone has to deal with cretins in cubicles.

> There are good reasons of when or why to get wireless devices.
> However, few of them come into play for users that choose them.

Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.

Alex Harrington <spam@alexharrington.co.uk> wrote
> bryant.rossiter@gmail.com wrote

>> I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a gaming
>> computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro (from my old
>> computer).

> Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version then that
> will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot transfer it to a new PC -
> it sucks, but it's the rules.

That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'

> I'll chip in on the wireless keyboard/mouse thing. I had a pair of
> Creative keyboard/mouse sets and they were nothing but trouble. Back
> to wired now. I have however used newer wireless mice that are fine
> and last ages. Read the reviews, spend yer money, takes yer pick!

Some of use bought a decent system and would never go back to wired.

Rod Speed wrote:

>> Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version then that
>> will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot transfer it to a new PC -
>> it sucks, but it's the rules.
>
> That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'

I don't want to get in to another "is this legally enforceable or not"
thread. Fact is this has never been tried in court, and you are very
very unlikely to be prosecuted for it - however, in Microsoft's eyes you
are not licensed if you use an OEM licence on a different PC.

What the OP chooses to do about that is his business - I'm just flagging
up the issue.

Alex

Alex Harrington <spam@alexharrington.co.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote

>>> Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version
>>> then that will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot
>>> transfer it to a new PC - it sucks, but it's the rules.

>> That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'

> I don't want to get in to another "is this legally enforceable or not" thread.
> Fact is this has never been tried in court,

For one very very simple reason, MS knows that it aint legally enforceable.

> and you are very very unlikely to be prosecuted for it

Not a chance, actually.

> - however, in Microsoft's eyes you are not licensed if you use an OEM licence
> on a different PC.

Irrelevant to the law on that.

> What the OP chooses to do about that is his business - I'm just flagging up
> the issue.

It isnt an 'issue'

Pay no attention to the troll....


Rod Speed wrote:

> Vanguard <vanguard.news@yahooNIX.com> wrote
>
>><paulmd@efn.org> wrote
>
>
>>>>>I've never been fond of wireless keyboards and mice
>>>>>because of the basic need to keep them powered.
>
>
>>>>Completely routine when they are properly designed.
>
>
>>>Routine if properly designed. Still annoying to change the battery when
>>>you really have better things to do. Even if it takes 10 seconds, it's
>>>simply not an issue with a wired keyboard. And 10 seconds means
>>>something in games.
>
>
>>Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The keyboard
>>rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?
>
>
> Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.
>
>
>>The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be farther away
>>than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come with very long cords,
>>either.
>
>
> Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
> the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.
>
>
>>I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low to affect
>>behavior.
>
>
> You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
> can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low battery.
>
> And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough
> to turn the led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.
>
>
>>Remember when inside a game that you won't see a tray icon that may show you
>>voltage level of the batteries
>
>
> That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
> level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.
>
>
>>(and I've yet to see such a tray icon
>
>
> Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.
>
>
>>which means you have to periodically go check using the Control Panel applet).
>
>
> Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
> 4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.
>
>
>>Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.
>
>
> Wrong again.
>
>
>>You might try to up the sampling rate and buffer size but that won't affect
>>the polling rate between the wireless mouse and the receiver.
>
>
> Not a problem with a properly designed system.
>
>
>>I've tried 7 wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a couple of the
>>low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay than a wired mouse.
>
>
> You clearly didnt try the MX700.
>
>
>>Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
>>switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the small jerkiness
>>in movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play undemanding and slow
>>games.
>
>
> You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.
>
>
>>Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse manufacturer.
>
>
> Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.
>
>
>>I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or Microsoft but that's
>>because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often
>
>
> Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.
>
>
>>and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less jerky (but
>>still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not noticable by lots of
>>users).
>
>
> It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.
>
>
>>>>>And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,
>
>
>>>>Pure drivel.
>
>
>>>EVERYTHING wireless is vunelrable to inteferece and limits of range. Cell
>>>phones are less reliable than land lines, cable is more reliable than rabbit
>>>ears and sattellite. Reliability is sacrificed to portability. At a
>>>pricehike.
>
>
>>That isn't the only problem.
>
>
> It doesnt actually happen with a properly designed system.
>
>
>>Wireless mice are supposed to have a working range of up to 15 feet. True and
>>not true. Some won't work if the mouse if more than 3 feet away from the
>>receiver.
>
>
> Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
> range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
> so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.
>
>
>>Be careful what you place between the receiver and mouse. Yes, RF mice don't
>>need line-of-sight but hiding the receiver on the other side of a metallic
>>system case or behind a monitor can result in poor reception.
>
>
> Even you should be able to avoid that situation.
>
>
>>There is also the problem of one wireless mouse affecting another.
>
>
> Not with a properly designed system.
>
>
>>Since working range if 15 feet, in a company setting with cublicles
>>and offices close together, one user will wonder why their mouse
>>cursor is moving without touching the mouse. It's interference from
>>another user. Hell, in one case at work, we found the culprit
>>conflicting mouse was up one floor and 50 feet over (so obviously the
>>working range happened to be pretty far). We managed to correct that
>>problem but you can't always find different channels on which to set
>>the wireless mice so they won't interfere, and most only give you 2
>>"channels". In a home environment
>
>
> Which just happens to be the situation being discussed.
>
>
>>with just one computer, this interference isn't a problem (unless you're in an
>>apartment near the same wall where the next tenant also has their computer and
>>wireless mouse),
>
>
> It has to be the same system too.
>
>
>>but then 2 channels is probably sufficient when to resync the devices to
>>eliminate the interference.
>
>
>>For wireless mice, and because they don't last that long, now they're making
>>cradles to keep the batteries recharged (to hide the poor longevity).
>
>
> Nope, because thats more convenient than farting around changing batterys.
>
> You've likely noticed cordless phones use the same system.
>
>
>>Some, like IBM and Microsoft, make the mouse go to sleep sooner and wake up
>>slower (than Logitech) in an attempt to increase
>>battery life. When you game a lot, the batteries deplete much faster
>>because there are no low-power use times (notice the LED will flicker
>>between high and low power modes if you have a wireless mouse with
>>translucent sides). Also, if you use a dark mouse pad or surface then
>>the batteries deplete faster, and most mouse pads are dark and so are
>>most desktop surfaces. If you use your mouse for word processing for
>>6 hours per day at work the batteries will last a lot longer than if
>>you play games for those same 6 hours.
>
>
> The Logitechs all last more than a day even when the batterys
> have aged considerably so that is completely academic.
>
>
>>Also remember that wireless mice weigh more than wired mice.
>
>
> I dont care. Its weight is fine anyway.
>
>
>>Why? Because of the weight of the batteries. If you choose to use a mouse
>>(instead of a trackball), you will invariably end up having to lift
>>the mouse over and over to reposition it on the mouse pad or desktop.
>
>
> Even a weakling like you should be able to manage that fine.
>
>
>>Yeah, you could up the acceleration and speed but then you loose granularity
>>and control. So how do you pick up the mouse for all that repositioning? By
>>squeezing it between your fingers (thumb and pinky usually).
>
>
> Wrong again.
>
>
>>Your pinky can get tired after hours and hours of mouse use, especially with a
>>heavier mouse that has to house batteries.
>
>
> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>
>
>>If you can arrange that the cord is unfettered so it doesn't snag and also
>>doesn't hit anything (to eliminate torqueing on the mouse from restricted cord
>>movement), a wired mouse is much less effort to move over extended periods of
>>use.
>
>
> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>
>
>>My fingers got sore from prolonged use of a wireless mouse because of the
>>extra weight.
>
>
> Not everyone is a puny as you.
>
>
>>I also don't go deliberately looking for keyboards that have the hardest keys
>>to press, either.
>
>
> Not everyone is a puny as you.
>
>
>>Wireless mice are pricier. Break a wired one and its replacement is cheap.
>>Break or lose a wireless mouse and you'll waste time hunting around for a
>>better price or rethinking your original choice.
>
>
> So dont break it, stupid.
>
>
>>Also consider the expense of batteries.
>
>
> No thanks, I had enough of a clue to get one with a charging cradle.
>
>
>>Unless you get one with a cradle, you will need to buy lots of alkaline
>>batteries
>
>
> Only fools are actually that stupid.
>
>
>>or you will need to get the rechargeable batteries (that don't last a long per
>>charge as the single-use of non-rechargeables) along with a charger.
>
>
> Anyone with a clue buys one with a charging cradle.
>
>
>>If you get one with a recharging cradle, you'll get pissed off everytime you
>>leave the computer to come back to find that you forgot to cradle your
>>wireless mouse when you left, and now your mouse is still dead while you wait
>>for it to charge.
>
>
> You've clearly never used one. A properly designed one will
> go for days between charges, will give enough of a warning
> about low battery that you can still use it all day and put it on
> the charger when you stop using it that night, and will recharge
> fully during the lunch break etc anyway.
>
>
>>And getting a wireless mouse does NOT reduce the number of cords, anyway.
>
>
> It does where the cords matter, at the keyboard and mouse.
>
>
>>You're still stuck with the corded receiver.
>
>
> Since you never move that around, thats irrelevant.
>
>
>>Most users get wireless mice because it's a fad, cool, more technology, or
>>newer, not because they need wireless.
>
>
> You can make the same stupid claim about the PC too.
>
>
>>>Wired keyboards just work. Wireless ones have to be babysat.
>
>
>>Likewise when battery level goes low, you'll start to hear users in
>>the cubicles start swearing and banging harder on the keys until you wander
>>over to have a check and then replace the batteries.
>
>
> Not everyone has to deal with cretins in cubicles.
>
>
>>There are good reasons of when or why to get wireless devices.
>>However, few of them come into play for users that choose them.
>
>
> Just another of your pathetic little drug crazed fantasys.
>
>

Pay no attention to the troll. In this case, like most others, he is wrong.


Rod Speed wrote:

> Alex Harrington <spam@alexharrington.co.uk> wrote
>
>>bryant.rossiter@gmail.com wrote
>
>
>>>I am planning to build my first computer. It will mainly serve as a gaming
>>>computer, as well a school tool. The OS will be Windows XP Pro (from my old
>>>computer).
>
>
>>Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version then that
>>will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot transfer it to a new PC -
>>it sucks, but it's the rules.
>
>
> That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'
>
>
>>I'll chip in on the wireless keyboard/mouse thing. I had a pair of
>>Creative keyboard/mouse sets and they were nothing but trouble. Back
>>to wired now. I have however used newer wireless mice that are fine
>>and last ages. Read the reviews, spend yer money, takes yer pick!
>
>
> Some of use bought a decent system and would never go back to wired.
>

The troll is in error again by trying to practice law. Pay no attention
to the troll.



Rod Speed wrote:

> Alex Harrington <spam@alexharrington.co.uk> wrote
>
>>Rod Speed wrote
>
>
>>>>Assuming the version of XP Pro you have is a full retail version
>>>>then that will be fine. If it's an OEM licence then you cannot
>>>>transfer it to a new PC - it sucks, but it's the rules.
>
>
>>>That is just what MS claims, he never signed up to any such 'rule'
>
>
>>I don't want to get in to another "is this legally enforceable or not" thread.
>>Fact is this has never been tried in court,
>
>
> For one very very simple reason, MS knows that it aint legally enforceable.
>
>
>>and you are very very unlikely to be prosecuted for it
>
>
> Not a chance, actually.
>
>
>>- however, in Microsoft's eyes you are not licensed if you use an OEM licence
>>on a different PC.
>
>
> Irrelevant to the law on that.
>
>
>>What the OP chooses to do about that is his business - I'm just flagging up
>>the issue.
>
>
> It isnt an 'issue'
>
>

"Merrill P. L. Worthington" wrote:
>
> Pay no attention to the troll....
>
.... snip quote from Ron Speed ...

Then why do you top-post and quote the whole ugly mess?

--
Some informative links:
news:news.announce.newusers
http://www.geocities.com/nnqweb/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html
http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html

"Merrill P. L. Worthington" <mplw@us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:ElIKg.1261$Ez.932@newsfe06.lga...
>
> Pay no attention to the troll....


Don't be so hard on yourself.

"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4m0i5nF3ofusU1@individual.net...
> Vanguard <vanguard.news@yahooNIX.com> wrote
>> <paulmd@efn.org> wrote
>
>> Exactly why I quit using wireless mice (and keyboards). The
>> keyboard
>> rarely moves anyway so what's the point of having it wireless?
>
> Mine moves a lot because I dont use it on a desktop.

You really think using a keyboard atop your lap is normal use by the
majority of wireless keyboard users?

Sometimes a wireless mouse makes good sense but not so much for a
wireless keyboard. One place a wireless mouse comes in handy is on
shared hosts (or, at least, on shared I/O devices to those hosts). I
use the mouse on the leftside of the keyboard although I am
right-handed because that lets me extend my arm straight forward
rather than at an angle due to lopsided keyboards (with the arrow and
number pads on the right). Other users want it on the right side of
the keyboard. So being wireless makes it trivial to position the
mouse on either side of the keyboard for multiple users. However,
that is not how most wireless mice are used; i.e., they have a single
user.

>> The only time wireless makes sense is if the system unit will be
>> farther away than the cord, but then wireless devices don't come
>> with very long cords, either.
>
> Wrong again. The bluetooth devices can be used so far from
> the system that you cant even read the monitor anymore.

What is the point of moving yourself far away from that large monitor
for which you paid extra so it is the equivalent of a much cheaper and
smaller monitor? I don't recall ever seeing someone down the hallway
waving their mouse around. I haven't seen anyone positioning the
mouse and keyboard much more than 1 to 3 feet from the monitor
monitor. Yes, I know, gimmickry sells.

Bluetooth is not just used for wireless mice. It's used for
networking, too. Just Google on the problems with RF interference
when using Bluetooth. That guy down the hallway waving his Bluetooth
mouse around and using binoculars to see his monitor will also have
interference problems. Oh, of course, your response is "not in a
properly configured system". You can configure the "system" only
within the limits of the settings that are provided. You are really
claiming that it is ALWAYS possible to eliminate interference with
other Bluetooth and other RF devices? If so, time to visit the US
Patent Office with that discovery.

>> I've yet to see one that notifies you BEFORE voltage gets too low
>> to affect behavior.
>
> You need to get out more. The MX700 warns you so early that you
> can continue to use it fine all day once it starts warning of a low
> battery.

During gameplay, just where are you going to see that warning icon?
If it flashes up a warning dialog, it will screw up the resolution of
the game, interrupt the game to pop you back to the desktop, and upon
returning
to the game you may not be able to restore a usable screen.
Indicators on the mouse, tray icons, and warning dialogs, all to
overcome or forestall the inevitable problem of failing battery
charge.

Yes, the particular wireless mouse that the OP mentioned may have an
indicator of battery life. So is the user actually monitoring that
indicator during gameplay or while working to figure out just when
they will have to plan for the temporary outage so they can replace
the batteries without interfering with their later use of the or
continue their work? I've never seen users watching their mouse.
Instead they watch the mouse cursor on the monitor, so it will be when
they experience erratic behavior that they might then check on battery
voltage but then it's low and they have to do something about it then.
Something will happen with the mouse behavior and then they will look
at the voltage indicator. Hell, most users never notice the CapsLock
LED on their keyboard is lit until they notice they get all caps, then
they look.

> And it charges fast enough so that even a coffee break is enough
> to turn the led off, and it will fully charge over lunch too.

Must be nice to have such a slow work schedule (or personal schedule).
Having to wait around 15 minutes let alone an hour is not tolerable.
I doubt the mouse will just happen to get low when it happens to be
lunch or break time. I wasn't looking to deliberately generate
interruptions in my game play or for other use of my computers or a
reason to slack off at work. Yeah, boss, gotta take an early/late
lunch because my mouse isn't charged up.

>> Remember when inside a game that you won't see a tray icon that may
>> show you voltage level of the batteries
>
> That particular mouse he asked about has a 4
> level battery level indicator on the mouse itself.

Which the user won't be monitoring while playing a game or when
engrossed in their work. They'll know to replace the batteries or
recharge when and after the mouse starts behaving erratically, and by
then voltage is too low. Keyboards have had ScrollLock, NumLock, and
CapsLock LEDs for decades and yet they don't monitor them until after
something doesn't behave as expected.

>> (and I've yet to see such a tray icon
>
> Again, you need to get out more. The Logitechs have that.

I didn't say no tray icon was provided. Yep, if you cannot argue the
point, chop it up so it looks like they said something else.

> Not with that one he asked about. And its got a
> 4 level charge indicator on the mouse anyway.

Yeah, you made that point already. Do you actually watch your mouse
as you move it around and click on its buttons?

>> Also, the polling rate for wireless mices is much slower.
>
> Wrong again.

Yep, you are right - for GAMING mice. Some examples:

Typical cordless mouse: 125 Hz
Typical corded mouse: 200 Hz
Logitech MX1000 cordless mouse: Logitech doesn't say
Logitech G7 Laser cordless mouse: 500 Hz
Razer Copperhead cordless mouse: 1000 Hz

Logitech doesn't list the reports/sec (Hz) polling rate for the
MX1000. Since they advertise the G7 as their gaming mouse then the
MX1000 is probably something less, like 200 Hz which puts it
equivalent to the corded mice. So if there are wireless gaming mice,
there aren't wired gaming mice? I've heard of programs, like USB
Mouserate Switcher, than can up the polling rate to 1000 Hz. While
Logitech has their wireless G7 gaming mouse, they also have their
wired G7 gaming mouse for those not wanting the extra weight of
batteries and the nuisances that batteries incur. So, yes, I was
wrong that the polling rate is worse for wireless mice. It just isn't
any better than wired mice.

>> You might try to up the sampling rate and buffer size but that
>> won't affect the polling rate between the wireless mouse and the
>> receiver.
>
> Not a problem with a properly designed system.
>
>> I've tried 7 wireless mice from IBM, Microsoft, Logitech, and a
>> couple of the low-name brands and ALL were more jerky in gameplay
>> than a wired mouse.
>
> You clearly didnt try the MX700.

After trialing several wireless mice, I decided I liked the much
lighter corded mice due to the lack of weight for the batteries. I
use my mouse a LOT over long continuous hours of use. Casual users
probably won't mind. I'm arguing for less stress and less fatigue.
You're arguing for more of these. For short use, like a couple hours,
you might not mind. The same is true for the newbies that start
working in computer rooms and don't wear ear protectors because, well,
gee, all the fans don't seem to be that loud.

>> Some are much better than others but then most folks don't go
>> switching between them and wired mice often enough to see the small
>> jerkiness in movement that remains with wireless mice, or they play
>> undemanding and slow games.
>
> You clearly havent tried a decent gaming wireless mouse.

Paying 5 times the price didn't make economical sense. I can also get
a decent gaming WIRED mouse, too. Logitech G3 wired mouse at $60
(Logitech's price; $47 at newegg.com). I did NOT include the MX1000
because "cordless performance that equals USB corded connection"
(Logitech's description) means it runs as the measly 125 Hz, and even
my wired non-gaming mouse can do 200 Hz. The G7 wireless (at the same
500 Hz as the G3 wired) costs $100 (Logitech's price; $72 at
newegg.com) and you get 2.5 days of battery life for average game
play. More money with the nuisance of batteries. Such a deal.

>> Wireless mice never have the longevity claimed by the mouse
>> manufacturer.
>
> Mine hasnt failed and its been years now.

Sorry, I meant they don't have the longevity of battery life as
promised by the mouse manufacturer. The cradle was provided to hide
that fact. Some even come with 2 battery packs with the cradle to
further hide the problem of using batteries (so you're back to
swapping batteries).

>> I found the Logitech are more responsive than IBM or Microsoft but
>> that's because the Logitech doesn't go to sleep as often
>
> Doesnt go to sleep at all when its being used.

Except YOU don't constantly keep the mouse in motion. Most will go to
sleep in just 1 minute. With the IBM, it was 1.5 seconds to get it
out of sleep mode which meant I could be circling the mouse quite a
bit before the mouse cursor started moving. The Microsoft went to
sleep after 1 minute but was quicker to wake up but I could still see
the lag when I went to move the mouse before it woke up. The
Logitech's went to sleep after a longer period of inactivity and were
quicker to wake up, but they were also the shortest for battery
longevity. With a corded mouse, it never sleeps so you don't have to
"shake it" to wake it up. Cordless mice MUST go to sleep to preserve
battery life. If all you do is graphics then it's possible that you
keep you mouse continuously active. Same for when you are playing
games unless you find the keyboard provides better control, especially
for movement. For the rest of the use of the computer, you will use
the keyboard a lot, just like when you're typing your replies here.
Meanwhile your mouse sits idle and goes to sleep so you have to wake
it to get the mouse cursor moving.

>> and it also wakes up faster, and I've found Logitech to be less
>> jerky (but still jerkier than wired but tolerable and probably not
>> noticable by lots of users).
>
> It isnt jerky at all with the MX700.

Which is a Logitech model. Have you tried other brands? I said the
Logitech were smoother.

>>>>> And because they're less reliable than wired keyboards,
>
>>>> Pure drivel.

Some come with cradles so you don't have to replace batteries. Most
wireless mice do NOT have cradles. You think it is more reliable to
have users flexing a tab to remove a panel and be yanking out and
shoving in batteries? Besides the batteries, there is more to break
in wireless mice. After all, corded mice don't have to deal with
RF/EMF interference, switching channels to eliminate cross-talk
between nearby cordless mice or keyboards, and when they break (and
remember they ARE mechanical/manual devices so they do break) the
cordless units are cheaper to replace.

>> Wireless mice are supposed to have a working range of up to 15
>> feet. True and not true. Some won't work if the mouse if more
>> than 3 feet away from the receiver.
>
> Anyone with a clue gets one with a much better
> range than that if they need that. Bluetooth works
> so far that you cant read the monitor anymore.

And farther range is a plus? So you have g