I have just rebuilt my PC and re-installed all the software.
Now every time I boot up I get an explorer folder window open up. The window
is of the ATI catalyst installation folder. I close the window every time
but it comes back every time I reboot. Any ideas?
Haymish Pupkin wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have just rebuilt my PC and re-installed all the software.
>
> Now every time I boot up I get an explorer folder window open up. The window
> is of the ATI catalyst installation folder. I close the window every time
> but it comes back every time I reboot. Any ideas?
>
> Pete
>
>
A very common complaint and it appears to come from various sources. If
you do a Google search for "explorer window opens on startup" (without
the quotes) you'll find a lot of proposed solutions. Just be careful
about editing the registry unless you are very sure of what you are
doing. And backing up the registry before modifying it is a good idea
whether you are sure or not.
> I have just rebuilt my PC and re-installed all the software.
>
> Now every time I boot up I get an explorer folder window open up. The window
> is of the ATI catalyst installation folder. I close the window every time
> but it comes back every time I reboot. Any ideas?
"Haymish Pupkin" <not@this.address> wrote in message
news:1Bd5i.43210$Ug.35841@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.u k...
> Hi
>
> I have just rebuilt my PC and re-installed all the software.
>
> Now every time I boot up I get an explorer folder window open up. The
> window is of the ATI catalyst installation folder. I close the window
> every time but it comes back every time I reboot. Any ideas?
Check the Run registry key (and other entries shown by msconfig.exe).
You probably have a program, like explorer.exe, listed there but with no
parameters.
UCLAN wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> > UCLAN wrote:
> >
> >
> > GO LUNA ROSSA! Beat the Kiwis.
> >
> > LOL, like that's going to happen.
>
> My money says it is.
My money says "Where am I"?
However, since I've been taking the pills I don't hear it anymore.
Post back after Luna Rossa lose and tell me what your money says then. <g>
--
Shaun.
~misfit~ wrote:
> UCLAN wrote:
> > ~misfit~ wrote:
> >
> > > UCLAN wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > GO LUNA ROSSA! Beat the Kiwis.
> > >
> > > LOL, like that's going to happen.
> >
> > My money says it is.
>
> My money says "Where am I"?
>
> However, since I've been taking the pills I don't hear it anymore.
>
> Post back after Luna Rossa lose and tell me what your money says
> then. <g>
~misfit~ wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
> > UCLAN wrote:
> > > ~misfit~ wrote:
> > >
> > > > UCLAN wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GO LUNA ROSSA! Beat the Kiwis.
> > > >
> > > > LOL, like that's going to happen.
> > >
> > > My money says it is.
> >
> > My money says "Where am I"?
> >
> > However, since I've been taking the pills I don't hear it anymore.
> >
> > Post back after Luna Rossa lose and tell me what your money says
> > then. <g>
>
> One nil to NZ.
>
> Bloody close though, hard-fought race.
Two nil to NZ, that race was a bit more comfortable. Five times the margin
of the first race.
~misfit~ wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
> > ~misfit~ wrote:
> > > UCLAN wrote:
> > > > ~misfit~ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > UCLAN wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > GO LUNA ROSSA! Beat the Kiwis.
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL, like that's going to happen.
> > > >
> > > > My money says it is.
> > >
> > > My money says "Where am I"?
> > >
> > > However, since I've been taking the pills I don't hear it anymore.
> > >
> > > Post back after Luna Rossa lose and tell me what your money says
> > > then. <g>
> >
> > One nil to NZ.
> >
> > Bloody close though, hard-fought race.
>
> Two nil to NZ, that race was a bit more comfortable. Five times the
> margin of the first race. 40 seconds.
>
> What's your money saying now UCLAN?
Where's UCLAN gone? Just because it's now 3 - Zip in a 'best of nine'
doesn't mean Luna Rossa doesn't have a chance.
(Although being beaten yesterday by 1 minute 48 seconds after leading out of
the gate does hint that)
--
Shaun.
~misfit~ wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
> > ~misfit~ wrote:
> > > ~misfit~ wrote:
> > > > UCLAN wrote:
> > > > > ~misfit~ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > UCLAN wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > GO LUNA ROSSA! Beat the Kiwis.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOL, like that's going to happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > My money says it is.
> > > >
> > > > My money says "Where am I"?
> > > >
> > > > However, since I've been taking the pills I don't hear it
> > > > anymore. Post back after Luna Rossa lose and tell me what your money
> > > > says
> > > > then. <g>
> > >
> > > One nil to NZ.
> > >
> > > Bloody close though, hard-fought race.
> >
> > Two nil to NZ, that race was a bit more comfortable. Five times the
> > margin of the first race. 40 seconds.
> >
> > What's your money saying now UCLAN?
>
> Where's UCLAN gone? Just because it's now 3 - Zip in a 'best of nine'
> doesn't mean Luna Rossa doesn't have a chance.
>
> (Although being beaten yesterday by 1 minute 48 seconds after leading
> out of the gate does hint that)
Oh dear! NZ is now Four/Nil up in a best of nine! One win for NZ to go and
it's all she wrote. How embarrassing for Luna Rossa and her supporters! She
led by 100m not long after the start and had the favoured side of the course
but NZ just sailed straight past her.
Anyone seen that UCLAN fellow and his talking money? <g>
--
Shaun.
>>>>>>>GO LUNA ROSSA! Beat the Kiwis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LOL, like that's going to happen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>My money says it is.
>>>>>
>>>>>My money says "Where am I"?
>>>>>
>>>>>However, since I've been taking the pills I don't hear it
>>>>>anymore. Post back after Luna Rossa lose and tell me what your money
>>>>>says
>>>>>then. <g>
>>>>
>>>>One nil to NZ.
>>>>
>>>>Bloody close though, hard-fought race.
>>>
>>>Two nil to NZ, that race was a bit more comfortable. Five times the
>>>margin of the first race. 40 seconds.
>>>
>>>What's your money saying now UCLAN?
>>
>>Where's UCLAN gone? Just because it's now 3 - Zip in a 'best of nine'
>>doesn't mean Luna Rossa doesn't have a chance.
>>
>>(Although being beaten yesterday by 1 minute 48 seconds after leading
>>out of the gate does hint that)
>
>
> Oh dear! NZ is now Four/Nil up in a best of nine! One win for NZ to go and
> it's all she wrote. How embarrassing for Luna Rossa and her supporters! She
> led by 100m not long after the start and had the favoured side of the course
> but NZ just sailed straight past her.
>
> Anyone seen that UCLAN fellow and his talking money? <g>
UCLAN wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > GO LUNA ROSSA! Beat the Kiwis.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > LOL, like that's going to happen.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My money says it is.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My money says "Where am I"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, since I've been taking the pills I don't hear it
> > > > > > anymore. Post back after Luna Rossa lose and tell me what
> > > > > > your money says
> > > > > > then. <g>
> > > > >
> > > > > One nil to NZ.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bloody close though, hard-fought race.
> > > >
> > > > Two nil to NZ, that race was a bit more comfortable. Five times
> > > > the margin of the first race. 40 seconds.
> > > >
> > > > What's your money saying now UCLAN?
> > >
> > > Where's UCLAN gone? Just because it's now 3 - Zip in a 'best of
> > > nine' doesn't mean Luna Rossa doesn't have a chance.
> > >
> > > (Although being beaten yesterday by 1 minute 48 seconds after
> > > leading out of the gate does hint that)
> >
> >
> > Oh dear! NZ is now Four/Nil up in a best of nine! One win for NZ to
> > go and it's all she wrote. How embarrassing for Luna Rossa and her
> > supporters! She led by 100m not long after the start and had the
> > favoured side of the course but NZ just sailed straight past her.
> >
> > Anyone seen that UCLAN fellow and his talking money? <g>
>
> GO ALINGHI! BEAT THE KIWIS!
LOL!!!!!
Not a chance.
BTW, you do know that half of Luna Rossa's crew and most of Alinghi's crew
are Kiwis right?
--
Shaun.
>>GO ALINGHI! BEAT THE KIWIS!
>
> LOL!!!!!
>
> Not a chance.
>
> BTW, you do know that half of Luna Rossa's crew and most of Alinghi's crew
> are Kiwis right?
10 out of 36 of Alinghi's total crew are Kiwis. That is "most" ??
3 out of 36 of Luna Rosa's crew are Kiwis. That is "half" ?? Geez,
there are more USA crew members than Kiwi crew members on Luna Rosa,
and nearly as many on Alinghi.
UCLAN wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> > > GO ALINGHI! BEAT THE KIWIS!
> >
> > LOL!!!!!
> >
> > Not a chance.
> >
> > BTW, you do know that half of Luna Rossa's crew and most of
> > Alinghi's crew are Kiwis right?
>
> 10 out of 36 of Alinghi's total crew are Kiwis. That is "most" ??
You are aware that there aren't 36 men on bord the boat during a race right?
Where are those 10 Kiwis when Alinghi races? Who was the skipper who won
them the cup? Who is the skipper?
> 3 out of 36 of Luna Rosa's crew are Kiwis. That is "half" ?? Geez,
> there are more USA crew members than Kiwi crew members on Luna Rosa,
> and nearly as many on Alinghi.
Luna Rossa might not have as many Kiwis but their helmsman is Australian and
the head if their weather crew is a Kiwi. This on an "Italian" boat?
Oh, forgot to mention the obvious yesterday. Five nil clean sweep to Team
New Zealand over Luna Rossa. :-) What you could call a 'trouncing'. Feel
like sending some of your misguided money my way? <g>
Seems like the biggest input from the country that is supposed to be
represented is finance. Then they buy the best sailors they can find.
(Except NZ, we have plenty of world-class sailors, hence the fact that there
was at least one Kiwi on over 50% of the crews in the LV cup) What was BMW
Oracle's budget? 250 million USD? A quarter-billion dollars. It's no wonder
they could afford a few Kiwis.
For such a small country, (4 million people, included in that number a whole
bunch of relatively recent immigrants), that's a lot of proportional
representation amongst the participants of the worlds oldest international
sports trophy.
BTW, where did you get your figures? I just listen to the NZ commentary team
and, of course, they're constantly mentioning the Kiwis on the other boats
when the camera is on them.
Also, even Wikipedia recognises the input of NZ, the final comment on their
page about Alinghi says "Detractors say "How can Alinghi really win the
race, when they poached Team New Zealands key people for themselves" It will
not be a true victory." I think that comment was aimed at 2003 Americas cup
but it holds true today with Kiwi Brad Butterworth (Kiwi, 3-time AC winner)
being the skipper, vice president and tactician for Alinghi.
There is a saying on the waters of the Hauraki Gulf, how to become a
millionaire? Join the NZ AC team and wait for the offers to come rolling in.
So, whoever wins the AC (Go Team New Zealand!!) it'll be a victory for NZ.
14 days to wait until race one of the AC. Kiwi skipper against Kiwi skipper,
the only difference being one chose to race for his country, the other for
money.
--
Shaun.
>>>BTW, you do know that half of Luna Rossa's crew and most of
>>>Alinghi's crew are Kiwis right?
>>
>>10 out of 36 of Alinghi's total crew are Kiwis. That is "most" ??
>
> You are aware that there aren't 36 men on bord the boat during a race right?
> Where are those 10 Kiwis when Alinghi races?
Well, since they haven't raced yet it's hard to tell. Trimmers,
grinders, bowmen, etc., change from race to race. That's why they
have a total of 36 crew members. And of that 36, only 10 are Kiwis.
That is not "most."
>>3 out of 36 of Luna Rosa's crew are Kiwis. That is "half" ?? Geez,
>>there are more USA crew members than Kiwi crew members on Luna Rosa,
>>and nearly as many on Alinghi.
>
> Luna Rossa might not have as many Kiwis but their helmsman is Australian
Are we now saying Australians and Kiwis are the same? Aussies and Kiwis
might disagree with that - violently. And Francesco De Angelis, an
Italian, was also a helmsman.
> and
> the head if their weather crew is a Kiwi. This on an "Italian" boat?
LOL! Let's look at the afterguard of the Kiwi boat:
Adam Beashel - Strategist - Australian
Ray Davies - Strategist - New Zealand
Kevin Hall - Navigator - USA
Terry Hutchinson - Tactician - USA
This is on a New Zealand boat? And their major sponsor is an Arab
airline?
> Oh, forgot to mention the obvious yesterday. Five nil clean sweep to Team
> New Zealand over Luna Rossa. :-) What you could call a 'trouncing'. Feel
> like sending some of your misguided money my way? <g>
No. I'll send it to the American navigator and tactician. <g>
> Seems like the biggest input from the country that is supposed to be
> represented is finance. Then they buy the best sailors they can find.
??? Then why does *Emirates* New Zealand's team receive most of their
money from an Arab airline?
> (Except NZ, we have plenty of world-class sailors, hence the fact that there
> was at least one Kiwi on over 50% of the crews in the LV cup)
There were US sailors on board most of the other boats as well. Even the
Chinese boat was mainly foreign (French) sailors.
> For such a small country, (4 million people, included in that number a whole
> bunch of relatively recent immigrants), that's a lot of proportional
> representation amongst the participants of the worlds oldest international
> sports trophy.
And they still need US navigators and tacticians.
> BTW, where did you get your figures? I just listen to the NZ commentary team
> and, of course, they're constantly mentioning the Kiwis on the other boats
> when the camera is on them.
> Also, even Wikipedia recognises the input of NZ, the final comment on their
> page about Alinghi says "Detractors say "How can Alinghi really win the
> race, when they poached Team New Zealands key people for themselves" It will
> not be a true victory."
Ah, Wikipedia. That bastion of information. So incredibly accurate that
Universities such as Stanford are banning its use as a reference
(because of Wiki's oft reported errors.)
> I think that comment was aimed at 2003 Americas cup
> but it holds true today with Kiwi Brad Butterworth (Kiwi, 3-time AC winner)
> being the skipper, vice president and tactician for Alinghi.
I guess that is why the Kiwi boat has a US tactician and navigator, huh?
> There is a saying on the waters of the Hauraki Gulf, how to become a
> millionaire? Join the NZ AC team and wait for the offers to come rolling in.
>
> So, whoever wins the AC (Go Team New Zealand!!) it'll be a victory for NZ.
Really? In a race in light winds where tactics and navigation are key,
I'd say the Arab...er...New Zealand boat would credit Americans Hall
and Hutchinson, along with Australian strategist Beashel, or their
main sponsor Emirate Airways. <g>
UCLAN wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> > > > BTW, you do know that half of Luna Rossa's crew and most of
> > > > Alinghi's crew are Kiwis right?
> > >
> > > 10 out of 36 of Alinghi's total crew are Kiwis. That is "most" ??
> >
> > You are aware that there aren't 36 men on bord the boat during a
> > race right? Where are those 10 Kiwis when Alinghi races?
>
> Well, since they haven't raced yet it's hard to tell. Trimmers,
> grinders, bowmen, etc., change from race to race. That's why they
> have a total of 36 crew members. And of that 36, only 10 are Kiwis.
> That is not "most."
I guess we'll see on the day of the first race how many of the 17 man,
number 1 working crew are Kiwi.
> > > 3 out of 36 of Luna Rosa's crew are Kiwis. That is "half" ?? Geez,
> > > there are more USA crew members than Kiwi crew members on Luna
> > > Rosa, and nearly as many on Alinghi.
> >
> > Luna Rossa might not have as many Kiwis but their helmsman is
> > Australian
>
> Are we now saying Australians and Kiwis are the same?
Are we?
> Aussies and
> Kiwis might disagree with that - violently.
Perhaps.
> And Francesco De Angelis,
> an Italian, was also a helmsman.
However, I didn't see him holding the wheel in any of the races in the last
round-robin or final. Perhaps he's just a token Italian?
> > and
> > the head if their weather crew is a Kiwi. This on an "Italian" boat?
>
> LOL! Let's look at the afterguard of the Kiwi boat:
>
> Adam Beashel - Strategist - Australian
> Ray Davies - Strategist - New Zealand
> Kevin Hall - Navigator - USA
> Terry Hutchinson - Tactician - USA
>
> This is on a New Zealand boat?
Well, when Alinghi, then Oracle bought up all the best Kiwis we had to look
elsewhere for /some/ crew members.
> And their major sponsor is an Arab
> airline?
Now now. Don't be getting obtuse. You know how sponsorship works. Don't you?
> > Oh, forgot to mention the obvious yesterday. Five nil clean sweep
> > to Team New Zealand over Luna Rossa. :-) What you could call a
> > 'trouncing'. Feel like sending some of your misguided money my way?
> > <g>
>
> No. I'll send it to the American navigator and tactician. <g>
Yeah, I'm sure that /they/ need it.
> > Seems like the biggest input from the country that is supposed to be
> > represented is finance. Then they buy the best sailors they can
> > find.
>
> ??? Then why does *Emirates* New Zealand's team receive most of their
> money from an Arab airline?
Sponsorship. Are you sure that it's "most" of their money? You have access
to their balance-sheets?
> > (Except NZ, we have plenty of world-class sailors, hence the fact
> > that there was at least one Kiwi on over 50% of the crews in the LV
> > cup)
>
> There were US sailors on board most of the other boats as well. Even
> the Chinese boat was mainly foreign (French) sailors.
Well, relatively speaking, there are a *lot* of US sailors in the world.
Stands to reason they're going to be most places. Also, for a long time the
AC stayed in the US, then was contested fiercely by them. Lots of sailors
with experience with AC-class boats, gotta go somewhere.
> > For such a small country, (4 million people, included in that
> > number a whole bunch of relatively recent immigrants), that's a lot
> > of proportional representation amongst the participants of the
> > worlds oldest international sports trophy.
>
> And they still need US navigators and tacticians.
It happens when The US and Swiss snap up all the local talent.
> > Also, even Wikipedia recognises the input of NZ, the final comment
> > on their page about Alinghi says "Detractors say "How can Alinghi
> > really win the race, when they poached Team New Zealands key people
> > for themselves" It will not be a true victory."
>
> Ah, Wikipedia. That bastion of information. So incredibly accurate
> that Universities such as Stanford are banning its use as a reference
> (because of Wiki's oft reported errors.)
Are you saying that these scribblings are as important as a doctorate
thesis? My my, delusions of granduer.
Also, nice attempt at ignoring the comment and attacking the source. You
have political aspirations?
> > I think that comment was aimed at 2003 Americas cup
> > but it holds true today with Kiwi Brad Butterworth (Kiwi, 3-time AC
> > winner) being the skipper, vice president and tactician for Alinghi.
>
> I guess that is why the Kiwi boat has a US tactician and navigator,
> huh?
Yep, richer syndicates lured away the more experienced Kiwi crew.
> > There is a saying on the waters of the Hauraki Gulf, how to become a
> > millionaire? Join the NZ AC team and wait for the offers to come
> > rolling in. So, whoever wins the AC (Go Team New Zealand!!) it'll be a
> > victory
> > for NZ.
>
> Really? In a race in light winds where tactics and navigation are key,
In light winds the boat design and the trimmers/helmsman (and
grinders/foredeck crew if it's a tacking duel) are the key. Tactics and
navigation only come into it if there's big seperation. A situation that
didn't occur in any of T-NZ's last dozen or more races. Guess those US guys
were little more than ballast.
> I'd say the Arab...er...New Zealand boat
LOL!! So you think Oracle is a German boat because it's lised as "BMW
Oracle"? Shame you don't know how sponsorship works, you seem relatively
intelligent otherwise.
> would credit Americans Hall
> and Hutchinson, along with Australian strategist Beashel, or their
> main sponsor Emirate Airways. <g>
Ok, you have the figures. Which boat has the largest percentage of it's crew
actually originating from the country that the boat represents? Also, which
country has the highest representation in the LV/AC cup campaigns based on
head of population?
>>And Francesco De Angelis,
>>an Italian, was also a helmsman.
>
> However, I didn't see him holding the wheel in any of the races in the last
> round-robin or final. Perhaps he's just a token Italian?
He was at the helm for several of the RR2 races. I missed most of the
semi-finals, so I don't know about then. He is listed as the "skipper"
as well. BTW, there are 16 "token" Italians on the crew.
>>LOL! Let's look at the afterguard of the Kiwi boat:
>>
>>Adam Beashel - Strategist - Australian
>>Ray Davies - Strategist - New Zealand
>>Kevin Hall - Navigator - USA
>>Terry Hutchinson - Tactician - USA
>>
>>This is on a New Zealand boat?
>
> Well, when Alinghi, then Oracle bought up all the best Kiwis we had to look
> elsewhere for /some/ crew members.
You mean that great sailing power New Zealand ran out of tacticians
and navigators *that* quickly? Sounds like rationalization to me.
>>>Seems like the biggest input from the country that is supposed to be
>>>represented is finance. Then they buy the best sailors they can
>>>find.
>>
>>??? Then why does *Emirates* New Zealand's team receive most of their
>>money from an Arab airline?
>
> Sponsorship. Are you sure that it's "most" of their money? You have access
> to their balance-sheets?
First rationalization. Now denial. You think that New Zealand has a
bigger sponsor that doesn't mind that not just the boat, but the
ENTIRE syndicate is named "Emerates Team New Zealand" ?? And this
majority sponsor doesn't have its name plastered all over the sails?
Your above statement about finance seems to be in conflict with
your opinion on sponsorship.
>>>Also, even Wikipedia recognises the input of NZ, the final comment
>>>on their page about Alinghi says "Detractors say "How can Alinghi
>>>really win the race, when they poached Team New Zealands key people
>>>for themselves" It will not be a true victory."
>>
>>Ah, Wikipedia. That bastion of information. So incredibly accurate
>>that Universities such as Stanford are banning its use as a reference
>>(because of Wiki's oft reported errors.)
>
> Are you saying that these scribblings are as important as a doctorate
> thesis? My my, delusions of granduer.
>
> Also, nice attempt at ignoring the comment and attacking the source. You
> have political aspirations?
No, just have to grin when somebody uses a source that might have
been written by him, as is the case with Wiki. It's a nice place
to go for general information, but hardly a key to a winning
argument, especially when you use anonymous quotes.
> In light winds the boat design and the trimmers/helmsman (and
> grinders/foredeck crew if it's a tacking duel) are the key. Tactics and
> navigation only come into it if there's big seperation. A situation that
> didn't occur in any of T-NZ's last dozen or more races. Guess those US guys
> were little more than ballast.
Nonsense. In light, shifty winds, the tactician must decide in the
pre-start which side of the course to protect. The navigator is of
major assistance to the helm in deciding the best course to the mark.
Sailing upwind, a half a degree closer to the wind can reap major
rewards. Getting too close to a lay line may make such a course
mandatory. These situations are where the tactician and navigator
are of MAJOR importance to the helm. The trimmers/grinders job is
to make the sails as efficient as possible, regardless of what the
helm/tactician/navigator have decided.
>>I'd say the Arab...er...New Zealand boat
>
> LOL!! So you think Oracle is a German boat because it's lised as "BMW
> Oracle"? Shame you don't know how sponsorship works, you seem relatively
> intelligent otherwise.
Well at least BMW shares the name with Oracle, a Bay area company whose
founder and CEO is Larry Ellison (an American.) And Ellison is the one
controlling the purse strings.
> Ok, you have the figures. Which boat has the largest percentage of it's crew
> actually originating from the country that the boat represents?
Dunno. Site is down this afternoon. None of the boats are pure, but
there is talk of adding a "maximum foreign participation" clause in
the AC rules.
As far as exciting racing goes, let's return to 1987 and 12 meter
yachts off of Freemantle. It's been downhill since.
UCLAN wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> > > And Francesco De Angelis,
> > > an Italian, was also a helmsman.
> >
> > However, I didn't see him holding the wheel in any of the races in
> > the last round-robin or final. Perhaps he's just a token Italian?
>
> He was at the helm for several of the RR2 races. I missed most of the
> semi-finals, so I don't know about then. He is listed as the "skipper"
> as well. BTW, there are 16 "token" Italians on the crew.
This is the "crew" of 36 right? So less than half then.
> > > LOL! Let's look at the afterguard of the Kiwi boat:
> > >
> > > Adam Beashel - Strategist - Australian
> > > Ray Davies - Strategist - New Zealand
> > > Kevin Hall - Navigator - USA
> > > Terry Hutchinson - Tactician - USA
> > >
> > > This is on a New Zealand boat?
> >
> > Well, when Alinghi, then Oracle bought up all the best Kiwis we had
> > to look elsewhere for /some/ crew members.
>
> You mean that great sailing power New Zealand ran out of tacticians
> and navigators *that* quickly? Sounds like rationalization to me.
World class ones, yes. We're a pretty small country.
> > > > Seems like the biggest input from the country that is supposed
> > > > to be represented is finance. Then they buy the best sailors
> > > > they can find.
> > >
> > > ??? Then why does *Emirates* New Zealand's team receive most of
> > > their money from an Arab airline?
> >
> > Sponsorship. Are you sure that it's "most" of their money? You have
> > access to their balance-sheets?
>
> First rationalization. Now denial.
Chill, BIll.
> You think that New Zealand has a
> bigger sponsor that doesn't mind that not just the boat, but the
> ENTIRE syndicate is named "Emerates Team New Zealand" ?? And this
> majority sponsor doesn't have its name plastered all over the sails?
> Your above statement about finance seems to be in conflict with
> your opinion on sponsorship.
You do rather have a habit of homing in on things that you think can further
your argument huh?
I didn't say that EmIrates wasn't the major sponsor, I just said that
there's a good chance that the team didn't get _most_ of it's money from the
one source, as you suggested. Huge difference, try to keep the FUD to a
manageable level please. ;-)
> > > > Also, even Wikipedia recognises the input of NZ, the final
> > > > comment on their page about Alinghi says "Detractors say "How
> > > > can Alinghi really win the race, when they poached Team New
> > > > Zealands key people for themselves" It will not be a true
> > > > victory."
> > >
> > > Ah, Wikipedia. That bastion of information. So incredibly accurate
> > > that Universities such as Stanford are banning its use as a
> > > reference (because of Wiki's oft reported errors.)
> >
> > Are you saying that these scribblings are as important as a
> > doctorate thesis? My my, delusions of granduer.
> >
> > Also, nice attempt at ignoring the comment and attacking the
> > source. You have political aspirations?
>
> No, just have to grin when somebody uses a source that might have
> been written by him, as is the case with Wiki. It's a nice place
> to go for general information, but hardly a key to a winning
> argument, especially when you use anonymous quotes.
Sorry I couldn't attricute the quote further than I did. That's all I know
about it, it came from Wiki.
It never crossed my mind that someone could write it themself and then use
it to back up an argument. Guess I'm not devious enough. <g>
> > In light winds the boat design and the trimmers/helmsman (and
> > grinders/foredeck crew if it's a tacking duel) are the key. Tactics
> > and navigation only come into it if there's big seperation. A
> > situation that didn't occur in any of T-NZ's last dozen or more
> > races. Guess those US guys were little more than ballast.
>
> Nonsense. In light, shifty winds, the tactician must decide in the
> pre-start which side of the course to protect.
But if they don't get that side then his input is wasted right?
> The navigator is of
> major assistance to the helm in deciding the best course to the mark.
> Sailing upwind, a half a degree closer to the wind can reap major
> rewards.
Sure, but if the boat and the trimmers aren't good enough to sail that half
a degree higher then the navigator's advice is worthless.
> Getting too close to a lay line may make such a course
> mandatory. These situations are where the tactician and navigator
> are of MAJOR importance to the helm. The trimmers/grinders job is
> to make the sails as efficient as possible, regardless of what the
> helm/tactician/navigator have decided.
NO, that's the /trimmers/ job. The grinders are there to provide the
horsepower, pure and simple. Mainly come into play in tacking duels where
stamina as well as power is needed.
> > > I'd say the Arab...er...New Zealand boat
> >
> > LOL!! So you think Oracle is a German boat because it's lised as
> > "BMW Oracle"? Shame you don't know how sponsorship works, you seem
> > relatively intelligent otherwise.
>
> Well at least BMW shares the name with Oracle, a Bay area company
> whose founder and CEO is Larry Ellison (an American.) And Ellison is
> the one controlling the purse strings.
<\sarcasm> Thanks for the lesson, I needed that. <sarcasm>. I'm well aware
how much money Larry has sunk into his pastime and how he accrued it. There
was talk that their budget got close to a quarter billion for this campaign,
a bit rich even for Larry. Hence taking BMW on as a sponsor.
Same with TNZ. At least the country's name is still there, it's not
completely corporate.
> > Ok, you have the figures. Which boat has the largest percentage of
> > it's crew actually originating from the country that the boat
> > represents?
>
> Dunno. Site is down this afternoon. None of the boats are pure, but
> there is talk of adding a "maximum foreign participation" clause in
> the AC rules.
Now that would be a *brilliant* idea. Especially if it was realistic, like
10% (especially of the afterguard) or so. Trimmers don't matter so much,
they're just mules. <eg>
> As far as exciting racing goes, let's return to 1987 and 12 meter
> yachts off of Freemantle. It's been downhill since.
There was some great racing off Freemantle, for sure. I take it that you are
an Australian?
--
Shaun.
>>He was at the helm for several of the RR2 races. I missed most of the
>>semi-finals, so I don't know about then. He is listed as the "skipper"
>>as well. BTW, there are 16 "token" Italians on the crew.
>
> This is the "crew" of 36 right? So less than half then.
Yup. But hardly "token" as you suggest.
>>You mean that great sailing power New Zealand ran out of tacticians
>>and navigators *that* quickly? Sounds like rationalization to me.
>
> World class ones, yes. We're a pretty small country.
I thought that everybody down there spent their days out in the
Hauraki Gulf honing their skills. So much so, the sheep got jealous.
No?
> I didn't say that EmIrates wasn't the major sponsor, I just said that
> there's a good chance that the team didn't get _most_ of it's money from the
> one source, as you suggested. Huge difference, try to keep the FUD to a
> manageable level please. ;-)
Silly me. I just supposed that one gets "most" of it's money from
its largest sponsor. No? First rationalization, then denial, now
semantics. What's next? <g>
> It never crossed my mind that someone could write it themself and then use
> it to back up an argument. Guess I'm not devious enough. <g>
Ah, guess not.
>>>In light winds the boat design and the trimmers/helmsman (and
>>>grinders/foredeck crew if it's a tacking duel) are the key. Tactics
>>>and navigation only come into it if there's big seperation. A
>>>situation that didn't occur in any of T-NZ's last dozen or more
>>>races. Guess those US guys were little more than ballast.
>>
>>Nonsense. In light, shifty winds, the tactician must decide in the
>>pre-start which side of the course to protect.
>
> But if they don't get that side then his input is wasted right?
That advice? The pre-start advice? Yeah. But there are still four
legs of racing to deal with.
>>The navigator is of
>>major assistance to the helm in deciding the best course to the mark.
>>Sailing upwind, a half a degree closer to the wind can reap major
>>rewards.
>
> Sure, but if the boat and the trimmers aren't good enough to sail that half
> a degree higher then the navigator's advice is worthless.
Ah, boat design. Very important. But that is the realm of the computer
geeks and designers, not the real sailors, no? Once the boat is in the
water, it is the job of the navigator to chart the best course to the
mark based upon the boat's capabilities, no? A the trimmers? Didn't
you call them "mules" later in your post?
>>Getting too close to a lay line may make such a course
>>mandatory. These situations are where the tactician and navigator
>>are of MAJOR importance to the helm. The trimmers/grinders job is
>>to make the sails as efficient as possible, regardless of what the
>>helm/tactician/navigator have decided.
>
> NO, that's the /trimmers/ job.
I wrote trimmers/grinders. They work in tandem. The grinders provide
the horsepower. The trimmers provide the critical eye. One cannot
exist without the other.
>>>LOL!! So you think Oracle is a German boat because it's lised as
>>>"BMW Oracle"? Shame you don't know how sponsorship works, you seem
>>>relatively intelligent otherwise.
>>
>>Well at least BMW shares the name with Oracle, a Bay area company
>>whose founder and CEO is Larry Ellison (an American.) And Ellison is
>>the one controlling the purse strings.
>
> <\sarcasm> Thanks for the lesson, I needed that. <sarcasm>. I'm well aware
> how much money Larry has sunk into his pastime and how he accrued it. There
> was talk that their budget got close to a quarter billion for this campaign,
> a bit rich even for Larry. Hence taking BMW on as a sponsor.
His association with BMW goes back to his auto racing days. And last
AC Cup (in NZ), his "Oracle BMW Racing" yacht (note the reversal of
order) lost in the LV Cup final to Alinghi. So BMW has long been
associated with Ellison, not just "for this campaign" as you state.
>>Dunno. Site is down this afternoon. None of the boats are pure, but
>>there is talk of adding a "maximum foreign participation" clause in
>>the AC rules.
>
> Now that would be a *brilliant* idea. Especially if it was realistic, like
> 10% (especially of the afterguard) or so. Trimmers don't matter so much,
> they're just mules. <eg>
Really. Get those American navigators and tacticians off the NZ boat. ;)
>>As far as exciting racing goes, let's return to 1987 and 12 meter
>>yachts off of Freemantle. It's been downhill since.
>
> There was some great racing off Freemantle, for sure. I take it that you are
> an Australian?
Nah, a San Diegan. Taught Dennis all he knows. I just enjoyed the 12-
meter class, and racing with the Freemantle "Doctor", that's all.
That's the bottom line. Good, exciting, match racing.
UCLAN wrote:
> ~misfit~ wrote:
>
> > > He was at the helm for several of the RR2 races. I missed most of
> > > the semi-finals, so I don't know about then. He is listed as the
> > > "skipper" as well. BTW, there are 16 "token" Italians on the crew.
> >
> > This is the "crew" of 36 right? So less than half then.
>
> Yup. But hardly "token" as you suggest.
Depends on their input really.
> > > You mean that great sailing power New Zealand ran out of
> > > tacticians and navigators *that* quickly? Sounds like
> > > rationalization to me.
> >
> > World class ones, yes. We're a pretty small country.
>
> I thought that everybody down there spent their days out in the
> Hauraki Gulf honing their skills. So much so, the sheep got jealous.
>
> No?
No.
> > I didn't say that EmIrates wasn't the major sponsor, I just said
> > that there's a good chance that the team didn't get _most_ of it's
> > money from the one source, as you suggested. Huge difference, try
> > to keep the FUD to a manageable level please. ;-)
>
> Silly me. I just supposed that one gets "most" of it's money from
> its largest sponsor. No? First rationalization, then denial, now
> semantics. What's next? <g>
Silly you indeed.
Let's speculate, I'll outline a theoretical situation for your edification:
Let's say that there are 17 sponsors. (In fact there are probably far more.
I picked up a brochure in my local branch of an electronics chain-store
yesterday and, on page one, it says, in a large font, "Proudly sponsoring
Emirates Team New Zealand". I had no idea that they were a sponsor and I
shop there so often I have a "VIP" card and get a discount).
Emirates is obviously the major sponsor, to have naming rights. Let's say
that they provide 25% of the funding for the team. There are three other
major sponsors, Toyota, who get their logo on the boom and their name on the
hull, Estrella Dramm, who also get space on the boom and hull, and finally
Tourism NZ/NZ Trade and Enterprise who get secondary naming rights. Let's
say, for argument's sake that Toyota and Estrella Damm both put in 15% (They
are listed by TNZ as "elite sponsors") and the TNZ/NZT&E organisations put
in a further 15%. There's 70%
Now, it's well-known in NZ that the government. or more correctly the
taxpayer (we have a "Minister of the America's Cup", Trevor Mallard) has
also put money into the campaign. Shall we say 10%? Now we're up to 80%. On
the Emirates Team New Zealand web site (http://www.emiratesteamnz.com/) they
name a further 13 companies as "contributers". (My electronics store isn't
one of those). Shall we say 1% each for the 13? Now we're at 93%. I guess
the electronics store and several other business' that I've seen proclaiming
themselves as supporting the AC team make up the other 7%, along with the
many donations by wealthy individuals and the very active supporters club
who have had lots of fund-raising activities, celebrity auctions and the
like. There, 100%.
Obviously all of the above is merely educated speculation as they don't make
this stuff public. However, I'd say that, generally speaking, it's close to
the truth.
So you see, your supposition that "one gets most of it's money from it's
largest sponsor" is in fact wrong. In the theoretical scenario above it in
fact only gets one quarter, 25% of it's money from it's largest sponsor. Not
"most" by a long shot. Most is > 50%. I'll bet you my left testicle that
Emirates doesn't provide more than 50% of the funding for ETNZ. (Actually,
make that my right testicle, it slightly smaller and has a mildly perturbing
lump on it's surface).
Got it yet?
> > It never crossed my mind that someone could write it themself and
> > then use it to back up an argument. Guess I'm not devious enough.
> > <g>
>
> Ah, guess not.
>
> > > > In light winds the boat design and the trimmers/helmsman (and
> > > > grinders/foredeck crew if it's a tacking duel) are the key.
> > > > Tactics and navigation only come into it if there's big
> > > > seperation. A situation that didn't occur in any of T-NZ's last
> > > > dozen or more races. Guess those US guys were little more than
> > > > ballast.
> > >
> > > Nonsense. In light, shifty winds, the tactician must decide in the
> > > pre-start which side of the course to protect.
> >
> > But if they don't get that side then his input is wasted right?
>
> That advice? The pre-start advice? Yeah. But there are still four
> legs of racing to deal with.
Yeah but, historically, around 95% of the races are won by the team which
leads at the first mark.
> > > The navigator is of
> > > major assistance to the helm in deciding the best course to the
> > > mark. Sailing upwind, a half a degree closer to the wind can reap
> > > major rewards.
> >
> > Sure, but if the boat and the trimmers aren't good enough to sail
> > that half a degree higher then the navigator's advice is worthless.
>
> Ah, boat design. Very important. But that is the realm of the computer
> geeks and designers, not the real sailors, no?
Indeed. It also has to be built in the country that the boat represents.
(Lots of lost income there from the days when a lot of syndicates bought
NZ-designed and made boats). It could be argued that the boat is one of the
few things that is actually representative of the country it races for.
Computer geeks and designers, it's still talent. ETNZ is acknowledged to be
able to sail higher and faster upwind, especially in light winds, than any
other boat in the LV cup. Do you dismiss this as it's nothing to do with
"real sailors"?
> Once the boat is in the
> water, it is the job of the navigator to chart the best course to the
> mark based upon the boat's capabilities, no? A the trimmers? Didn't
> you call them "mules" later in your post?
Yes, and that was a brain-fart/typo. When read in context most readers would
have realised that I meant to write grinders, not trimmers.
> > > Getting too close to a lay line may make such a course
> > > mandatory. These situations are where the tactician and navigator
> > > are of MAJOR importance to the helm. The trimmers/grinders job is
> > > to make the sails as efficient as possible, regardless of what the
> > > helm/tactician/navigator have decided.
> >
> > NO, that's the /trimmers/ job.
>
> I wrote trimmers/grinders. They work in tandem. The grinders provide
> the horsepower. The trimmers provide the critical eye. One cannot
> exist without the other.
For sure. However, it's not the grinders who make the decisions, they just
turn the handles when told.
> > > > LOL!! So you think Oracle is a German boat because it's lised as
> > > > "BMW Oracle"? Shame you don't know how sponsorship works, you
> > > > seem relatively intelligent otherwise.
> > >
> > > Well at least BMW shares the name with Oracle, a Bay area company
> > > whose founder and CEO is Larry Ellison (an American.) And Ellison
> > > is the one controlling the purse strings.
> >
> > <\sarcasm> Thanks for the lesson, I needed that. <sarcasm>. I'm
> > well aware how much money Larry has sunk into his pastime and how
> > he accrued it. There was talk that their budget got close to a
> > quarter billion for this campaign, a bit rich even for Larry. Hence
> > taking BMW on as a sponsor.
>
> His association with BMW goes back to his auto racing days. And last
> AC Cup (in NZ), his "Oracle BMW Racing" yacht (note the reversal of
> order) lost in the LV Cup final to Alinghi. So BMW has long been
> associated with Ellison, not just "for this campaign" as you state.
Correct. I didn't realise that you were going to nit-pick or I would have
been more accurate and said "first-name sponsor". It would seem that Larry
had to squeeze BMW for more money this time around to inject into the NZ
economy. All those highly-paid Kiwis are most likely going to bring it home
when they're done raking it in.
> > > Dunno. Site is down this afternoon. None of the boats are pure,
> > > but there is talk of adding a "maximum foreign participation"
> > > clause in the AC rules.
> >
> > Now that would be a *brilliant* idea. Especially if it was
> > realistic, like 10% (especially of the afterguard) or so. Trimmers
> > don't matter so much, they're just mules. <eg>
>
> Really. Get those American navigators and tacticians off the NZ boat.
> ;)
Heh! Yeah, just as soon as the other syndicates are forced to let us have
our NZ guys back. Take Alighi. Murray Jones, Alinghi's strategist, Brad
Butterworth, their tactician and Mike Drummond, the navigator. All NZers.
Personally. I'd swap any of them for the Americans on ETNZ in a heartbeat.
I didn't look into the other syndicate's crews as my internet connection is
slow today and they all seem to have bandwidth-intensive sites but I think
you get the picture.
> > > As far as exciting racing goes, let's return to 1987 and 12 meter
> > > yachts off of Freemantle. It's been downhill since.
> >
> > There was some great racing off Freemantle, for sure. I take it
> > that you are an Australian?
>
> Nah, a San Diegan. Taught Dennis all he knows.
Ok. I wondered what was behind your backing of anyone who sails against
ETNZ. There is a (mostly) good-natured trans-Tasman rivalry between Aussies
and NZers that would have explained it. Otherwise I'm at a loss to explain
the anti-NZ sentiment you exhibit.
> I just enjoyed the 12-
> meter class, and racing with the Freemantle "Doctor", that's all.
Oh yeah.
> That's the bottom line. Good, exciting, match racing.
I wish. Sadly, the bottom line is money. If we can get to witness some good
matchracing along the way well then that's great.
Cheers,
--
Shaun. (Thanks alt.comp.hardware for putting up with this OT thread without
complaint. I appreciate it, a good discussion is hard to find and needs to
be enjoyed where it can be found IME)
>>>>He was at the helm for several of the RR2 races. I missed most of
>>>>the semi-finals, so I don't know about then. He is listed as the
>>>>"skipper" as well. BTW, there are 16 "token" Italians on the crew.
>>>
>>>This is the "crew" of 36 right? So less than half then.
>>
>>Yup. But hardly "token" as you suggest.
>
> Depends on their input really.
And add to that the two *other* Italian teams entered, with 38 of their
58 roster spots occupied by Italians. That's 54 Italian sailors in the
AC just on Italian boats! Momma Mia!
>>I thought that everybody down there spent their days out in the
>>Hauraki Gulf honing their skills. So much so, the sheep got jealous.
>>
>>No?
>
> No.
Hmmm...ESPN gave that impression during their AC coverage down there.
>>Silly me. I just supposed that one gets "most" of it's money from
>>its largest sponsor. No? First rationalization, then denial, now
>>semantics. What's next? <g>
>
> Silly you indeed.
>
> Let's speculate, I'll outline a theoretical situation for your edification:
[Long, needless math lesson snipped]
> Got it yet?
Oh, I "got it" long ago. I should have used the word "major" instead
of "majority." Semantics. Emirates Airlines gives the New Zealand team
the lion's share of its operating budget.
>>That advice? The pre-start advice? Yeah. But there are still four
>>legs of racing to deal with.
>
> Yeah but, historically, around 95% of the races are won by the team which
> leads at the first mark.
Methinks you made up that 95% figure. Back in the days that AC races
were longer than just four short legs, trailing at the first mark was
no big thing. The present format has taken a lot of excitement out of
the races.
That being said, Oracle trailed at the first mark in many of its RR1
and RR2 victories, and in its only semi-final victory (it trailed at
all three roundings, as a matter of fact.)
BTW...Luna Rossa's crew had only TWO Kiwis in the semi-finals -
a grinder and a bowman.
>>Ah, boat design. Very important. But that is the realm of the computer
>>geeks and designers, not the real sailors, no?
>
> Indeed. It also has to be built in the country that the boat represents.
> (Lots of lost income there from the days when a lot of syndicates bought
> NZ-designed and made boats). It could be argued that the boat is one of the
> few things that is actually representative of the country it races for.
> Computer geeks and designers, it's still talent. ETNZ is acknowledged to be
> able to sail higher and faster upwind, especially in light winds, than any
> other boat in the LV cup. Do you dismiss this as it's nothing to do with
> "real sailors"?
No, just another major aspect of the other entries that is NOT a result
of Kiwis being on the crew. If Alinghi beats Team Emirates, is it
because of the Kiwi grinders on board Alinghi, or the Swiss hired Dutch
boat designer? I vote for the latter.
> Heh! Yeah, just as soon as the other syndicates are forced to let us have
> our NZ guys back. Take Alighi. Murray Jones, Alinghi's strategist, Brad
> Butterworth, their tactician and Mike Drummond, the navigator. All NZers.
> Personally. I'd swap any of them for the Americans on ETNZ in a heartbeat.
>
> I didn't look into the other syndicate's crews as my internet connection is
> slow today and they all seem to have bandwidth-intensive sites but I think
> you get the picture.
I get the picture, alright. The Kiwi boat got US and Australian
experience in their afterguard, so the Kiwi talent went elsewhere.
>>Nah, a San Diegan. Taught Dennis all he knows.
>
> Ok. I wondered what was behind your backing of anyone who sails against
> ETNZ.
My backing of any opponent to Team Emirates is purely because I did not
enjoy the AC in Auckland, and don't want the AC to return there. If
there were a Australian team (specifically out of Freemantle) I would
probably hope they would win. At least a Alinghi victory would leave
the next AC location open to bidders, again. [We obviously can't have
the AC in Switzerland.]
> There is a (mostly) good-natured trans-Tasman rivalry between Aussies
> and NZers that would have explained it. Otherwise I'm at a loss to explain
> the anti-NZ sentiment you exhibit.
Not anti-NZ. Just anti Hauraki Gulf. But Chris Dickson rubbed me the
wrong way when he sold himself to the Japanese in 1991. That started
the current epidemic of "sailors for hire" in the AC.
Haymish Pupkin wrote:
> Hi
>
> I have just rebuilt my PC and re-installed all the software.
>
> Now every time I boot up I get an explorer folder window open up. The window
> is of the ATI catalyst installation folder. I close the window every time
> but it comes back every time I reboot. Any ideas?
>
> Pete
>
>
have you tried running msconfig to see if it is in the start menu and
can be unchecked?
annoying window 
Linear Mode
