"Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote in message
news:dgp13m$98i$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
> The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the
> motherboard?
Doesn't actually matter - what colour is the connector on the motherboard?
Just co-ordinate them!
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:08:57 +0100, "GT"
<contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote in message
>news:dgp13m$98i$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>> The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the
>> motherboard?
>
>Doesn't actually matter - what colour is the connector on the motherboard?
>Just co-ordinate them!
It probably does matter!
Current ATA cables use 80 wires. And are color coded.
Black is the master, Blue motherboard, Grey is the slave.
If that does not match your physical installation, get the proper
cable (or be in for some troubles:-) !
"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:43301546.1781648@News.Individual.NET...
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:08:57 +0100, "GT"
> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote in message
>>news:dgp13m$98i$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>>> The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the
>>> motherboard?
>>
>>Doesn't actually matter - what colour is the connector on the motherboard?
>>Just co-ordinate them!
>
> It probably does matter!
> Current ATA cables use 80 wires. And are color coded.
>
> Black is the master, Blue motherboard, Grey is the slave.
>
> If that does not match your physical installation, get the proper
> cable (or be in for some troubles:-) !
I just use the cable any way round, but set the jumpers on the back of the
drives to master and slave instead of cable select. You can't put the cable
in the wrong way up as there is a notch on the connector.
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:16:05 +0100, "GT"
<contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
>news:43301546.1781648@News.Individual.NET...
>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:08:57 +0100, "GT"
>> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote in message
>>>news:dgp13m$98i$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>>>> The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the
>>>> motherboard?
>>>
>>>Doesn't actually matter - what colour is the connector on the motherboard?
>>>Just co-ordinate them!
>>
>> It probably does matter!
>> Current ATA cables use 80 wires. And are color coded.
>>
>> Black is the master, Blue motherboard, Grey is the slave.
>>
>> If that does not match your physical installation, get the proper
>> cable (or be in for some troubles:-) !
>
>I just use the cable any way round, but set the jumpers on the back of the
>drives to master and slave instead of cable select. You can't put the cable
>in the wrong way up as there is a notch on the connector.
Do whatever you like. On your own computer.
But please: do not post bad advice to others.
"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:43302ade.7310841@News.Individual.NET...
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:16:05 +0100, "GT"
> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
>>news:43301546.1781648@News.Individual.NET...
>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:08:57 +0100, "GT"
>>> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote in message
>>>>news:dgp13m$98i$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>>>>> The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the
>>>>> motherboard?
>>>>
>>>>Doesn't actually matter - what colour is the connector on the
>>>>motherboard?
>>>>Just co-ordinate them!
>>>
>>> It probably does matter!
>>> Current ATA cables use 80 wires. And are color coded.
>>>
>>> Black is the master, Blue motherboard, Grey is the slave.
>>>
>>> If that does not match your physical installation, get the proper
>>> cable (or be in for some troubles:-) !
>>
>>I just use the cable any way round, but set the jumpers on the back of the
>>drives to master and slave instead of cable select. You can't put the
>>cable
>>in the wrong way up as there is a notch on the connector.
>
> Do whatever you like. On your own computer.
> But please: do not post bad advice to others.
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Gerard Bok
almaz wrote:
> cables does not matter, as long as you put the notches in the right way :)
>
Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables. The extra
conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding between the
original ATA 40 conductors. They must be grounded to work properly. If
the wrong end of the cable is plugged into the MB then the grounding
will not happen.
"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:43302ade.7310841@News.Individual.NET...
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:16:05 +0100, "GT"
> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
>>news:43301546.1781648@News.Individual.NET...
>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:08:57 +0100, "GT"
>>> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote in message
>>>>news:dgp13m$98i$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl...
>>>>> The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the
>>>>> motherboard?
>>>>
>>>>Doesn't actually matter - what colour is the connector on the
>>>>motherboard?
>>>>Just co-ordinate them!
>>>
>>> It probably does matter!
>>> Current ATA cables use 80 wires. And are color coded.
>>>
>>> Black is the master, Blue motherboard, Grey is the slave.
>>>
>>> If that does not match your physical installation, get the proper
>>> cable (or be in for some troubles:-) !
>>
>>I just use the cable any way round, but set the jumpers on the back of the
>>drives to master and slave instead of cable select. You can't put the
>>cable
>>in the wrong way up as there is a notch on the connector.
>
> Do whatever you like. On your own computer.
> But please: do not post bad advice to others.
Or what? Which part of my known working solution was 'bad' exactly and why
is your more restrictive advice better?
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 11:05:00 +0100, "GT"
<contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
>news:43302ade.7310841@News.Individual.NET...
>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:16:05 +0100, "GT"
>> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Gerard Bok" <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
>>>news:43301546.1781648@News.Individual.NET...
>>>> On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:08:57 +0100, "GT"
>>>> <contactGT_remove_me_@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote in message
>>>>>news:dgp13m$98i$1@news1.zwoll1.ov.home.nl.. .
>>>>>> The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the
>>>>>> motherboard?
>>>>>
>>>>>Doesn't actually matter - what colour is the connector on the
>>>>>motherboard?
>>>>>Just co-ordinate them!
>>>>
>>>> It probably does matter!
>>>> Current ATA cables use 80 wires. And are color coded.
>>>>
>>>> Black is the master, Blue motherboard, Grey is the slave.
>>>>
>>>> If that does not match your physical installation, get the proper
>>>> cable (or be in for some troubles:-) !
>>>
>>>I just use the cable any way round, but set the jumpers on the back of the
>>>drives to master and slave instead of cable select. You can't put the
>>>cable
>>>in the wrong way up as there is a notch on the connector.
>>
>> Do whatever you like. On your own computer.
>> But please: do not post bad advice to others.
>
>Or what? Which part of my known working solution was 'bad' exactly and why
>is your more restrictive advice better?
The fact that something might work on your PC does not imply that
it will function correctly on any PC.
Following your advice may well result in data loss, so it is fair
to say the advice is 'bad'.
Most people who save files to a harddisk do that for the purpose
of being able to read it back (reliably) sometime later.
You may not care about the integrity of your data, someone else
probably will care.
>
> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables. The extra
> conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding between the original
> ATA 40 conductors. They must be grounded to work properly. If the wrong
> end of the cable is plugged into the MB then the grounding will not
> happen.
>
But aren't the ground (pin #34) and CSEL signal (pin #28) the same on both
ends 8-)? The paragraph on PCguide explaining why the color coding is used
is more for those who don't know how the drives should be hooked up. If you
follow a couple simple rules -
A single drive will be set to master or CSEL (or single) and 'must' placed
at the end of the cable.
Two drives in CSEL mode will be assigned as 'master' on the end and 'slave'
in the middle.
--
"I don't cheat to survive. I cheat to LIVE!!"
- Alceryes
"John McGaw" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote in message
news:gUXXe.12007$pn2.2013@bignews1.bellsouth.net.. .
> almaz wrote:
>> cables does not matter, as long as you put the notches in the right way
>> :)
>>
>
>
> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables. The extra
> conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding between the original
> ATA 40 conductors. They must be grounded to work properly. If the wrong
> end of the cable is plugged into the MB then the grounding will not
> happen.
>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...Cable80-c.html
>
> --
> John McGaw
> [Knoxville, TN, USA]
> http://johnmcgaw.com
they show that the pinout is the same on both ends for 40 and 80 wire ATA
cables (they talk about the 80 wire cables below the diagram). So as long as
you make sure pin 1 on your cable mates with pin 1 on your device (that's
what the stub is for) there is no difference.
--
"I don't cheat to survive. I cheat to LIVE!!"
- Alceryes
"John McGaw" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote in message
news:gUXXe.12007$pn2.2013@bignews1.bellsouth.net.. .
> almaz wrote:
>> cables does not matter, as long as you put the notches in the right way
>> :)
>>
>
>
> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables. The extra
> conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding between the original
> ATA 40 conductors. They must be grounded to work properly. If the wrong
> end of the cable is plugged into the MB then the grounding will not
> happen.
>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...Cable80-c.html
>
> --
> John McGaw
> [Knoxville, TN, USA]
> http://johnmcgaw.com
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:11:24 GMT, "Alceryes"
<replytopost@thankyou.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables. The extra
>> conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding between the original
>> ATA 40 conductors. They must be grounded to work properly. If the wrong
>> end of the cable is plugged into the MB then the grounding will not
>> happen.
>>
>
>But aren't the ground (pin #34) and CSEL signal (pin #28) the same on both
>ends 8-)?
No, the host end has the CSEL line grounded. The master
device in a CSEL set master/slave configuration must be
connected on the opposite end, not the blue plugged end.
If you are not using CSEL to set master/slave designations,
you "could" flip the cable, but why? Unless there is some
kind of spacing issue of where the middle connector is, you
might as well just hook it up as intended.
"kony" wrote:
> "Alceryes" wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables.
>>> The extra conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding
>>> between the original ATA 40 conductors. They must be
>>> grounded to work properly. If the wrong end of the cable is
>>> plugged into the MB then the grounding will not happen.
>>>
>>
>>But aren't the ground (pin #34) and CSEL signal (pin #28) the
>>same on both
>>ends 8-)?
>
> No, the host end has the CSEL line grounded. The master
> device in a CSEL set master/slave configuration must be
> connected on the opposite end, not the blue plugged end.
>
> If you are not using CSEL to set master/slave designations,
> you "could" flip the cable, but why? Unless there is some
> kind of spacing issue of where the middle connector is, you
> might as well just hook it up as intended.
The spacing issue is imposed by the ATA specs in that
they specify where the controller connector should be and
where each of the device connectors should be - see p.29
of: http://t13.org/docs2004/d1532v2r4b-ATA-ATAPI-7.pdf .
In practice, though, modern circuitry seems very tolerant
of deviations from the cabling specs.
Check out pages 27 and 29 of: http://t13.org/docs2004/d1532v2r4b-ATA-ATAPI-7.pdf .
Due to effects of signal reflections off the connectors
and/or devices, the dimensions and directionality are
pretty well specified (not to say that they matter much
in real life).
*TimDaniels*
"Alceryes" wrote:
> In fact if you look here...
>
> http://pinouts.ru/data/AtaInternal_pinout.shtml
>
> they show that the pinout is the same on both ends for 40
> and 80 wire ATA cables (they talk about the 80 wire cables
> below the diagram). So as long as you make sure pin 1 on
> your cable mates with pin 1 on your device (that's
> what the stub is for) there is no difference.
> --
> "John McGaw" wrote:
>> almaz wrote:
>>> cables does not matter, as long as you put the notches
>>> in the right way
>>
>>
>> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables.
>> The extra conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding
>> between the original ATA 40 conductors. They must be
>> grounded to work properly. If the wrong end of the cable is
>> plugged into the MB then the grounding will not happen.
>>
>> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...Cable80-c.html
> No, the host end has the CSEL line grounded. The master
> device in a CSEL set master/slave configuration must be
> connected on the opposite end, not the blue plugged end.
Hmmm...is there a way that the IDE channel 'corrects' it if the cable is
flipped?
Because of cable length, and the fact that the slave connector is usually
much closer to the end of the cable, I have used the cable in reverse on
dozens of occasions and never had a problem. 99% of the time I use the CS
setting as well and the device on the end of the chain always becomes master
with the one in the middle set as slave.
I'm not talking all newer equipment too...when I worked at Best Buy and
Gateway there were many 'dinosaurs' brought in to be upgraded (new HD, more
RAM) and I never had a problem flipping the cables around...
If you're right that is kind of odd that I've never had problems. Any
ideas??
--
"I don't cheat to survive. I cheat to LIVE!!"
- Alceryes
"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:9av2j159dpbgugpt362fvtqu58eun9k58l@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:11:24 GMT, "Alceryes"
> <replytopost@thankyou.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables. The extra
>>> conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding between the
>>> original
>>> ATA 40 conductors. They must be grounded to work properly. If the wrong
>>> end of the cable is plugged into the MB then the grounding will not
>>> happen.
>>>
>>
>>But aren't the ground (pin #34) and CSEL signal (pin #28) the same on both
>>ends 8-)?
>
> No, the host end has the CSEL line grounded. The master
> device in a CSEL set master/slave configuration must be
> connected on the opposite end, not the blue plugged end.
>
> If you are not using CSEL to set master/slave designations,
> you "could" flip the cable, but why? Unless there is some
> kind of spacing issue of where the middle connector is, you
> might as well just hook it up as intended.
"Alceryes" wrote:
>> No, the host end has the CSEL line grounded. The master
>> device in a CSEL set master/slave configuration must be
>> connected on the opposite end, not the blue plugged end.
>
> Hmmm...is there a way that the IDE channel 'corrects' it if the
> cable is flipped?
>
> Because of cable length, and the fact that the slave connector
> is usually much closer to the end of the cable, I have used the
> cable in reverse on dozens of occasions and never had a problem.
> 99% of the time I use the CS setting as well and the device on
> the end of the chain always becomes master with the one in the
> middle set as slave. I'm not talking all newer equipment too...
> when I worked at Best Buy and Gateway there were many
> 'dinosaurs' brought in to be upgraded (new HD, more RAM)
> and I never had a problem flipping the cables around...
>
> If you're right that is kind of odd that I've never had problems.
> Any ideas??
Yeah, the circuitry is more tolerant of non-standard cabling
than the specs imply. Also, cirtuitry might be correcting for
an increased error rate that you're not aware of. It might
even be reducing the transfer rate to compensate. That
said, I use "round" cables in my PC, and I love 'em.
> Hmmm...is there a way that the IDE channel 'corrects' it if the cable is
> flipped?
>
> Because of cable length, and the fact that the slave connector is usually
> much closer to the end of the cable, I have used the cable in reverse on
> dozens of occasions and never had a problem. 99% of the time I use the CS
> setting as well and the device on the end of the chain always becomes master
> with the one in the middle set as slave.
Pin #28, (CSEL), when grounded signals the drive to act as master. This
pin gets its ground normally from the MB, (blue), connector and is not
connected at the middle, (gray), connector, but is connected at the end,
(black), connector. Reversing these would still leave CS intact. There
is some question about pin #34, which may be handled differently at each
end. As you've found, most set-ups don't care! :-)
> Yeah, the circuitry is more tolerant of non-standard cabling
> than the specs imply. Also, cirtuitry might be correcting for
> an increased error rate that you're not aware of. It might
> even be reducing the transfer rate to compensate. That
> said, I use "round" cables in my PC, and I love 'em.
See my reply to Alceryes. The only way increased error rate might be
incurred, is leaving a "stub" of a cable unconnected with only one drive
at the middle connector. This could pick up EMF which might interfere
with data transfer.
The main advantage of SATA is to get rid of all this nonsense! ;-)
The cables are much smaller than even round cables! Don't expect faster
performance until the drive "innards" catch up to the serial interface!
I have two RD3XP Gladiator cables in my system. 1, two connector with end
attached to DVD-RW (used to have an LS-120 also) and 1, one connector for my
Maxtor 120GB. They're the best of the best (and definitely overkill) but in
an all plexi case your cables gotta look good.
--
"I don't cheat to survive. I cheat to LIVE!!"
- Alceryes
"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:LvydnYpdQO2laq_eRVn-ig@comcast.com...
> "Alceryes" wrote:
>>> No, the host end has the CSEL line grounded. The master
>>> device in a CSEL set master/slave configuration must be
>>> connected on the opposite end, not the blue plugged end.
>>
>> Hmmm...is there a way that the IDE channel 'corrects' it if the
>> cable is flipped?
>>
>> Because of cable length, and the fact that the slave connector
>> is usually much closer to the end of the cable, I have used the
>> cable in reverse on dozens of occasions and never had a problem.
>> 99% of the time I use the CS setting as well and the device on
>> the end of the chain always becomes master with the one in the
>> middle set as slave. I'm not talking all newer equipment too...
>> when I worked at Best Buy and Gateway there were many
>> 'dinosaurs' brought in to be upgraded (new HD, more RAM)
>> and I never had a problem flipping the cables around...
>>
>> If you're right that is kind of odd that I've never had problems.
>> Any ideas??
>
>
> Yeah, the circuitry is more tolerant of non-standard cabling
> than the specs imply. Also, cirtuitry might be correcting for
> an increased error rate that you're not aware of. It might
> even be reducing the transfer rate to compensate. That
> said, I use "round" cables in my PC, and I love 'em.
>
> *TimDaniels*
"John McGaw" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote in message
news:gUXXe.12007$pn2.2013@bignews1.bellsouth.net.. .
> almaz wrote:
>> cables does not matter, as long as you put the notches in the right way
>> :)
>>
>
>
> Yes, it does matter in the case of the 80-conductor cables. The extra
> conductors in the cable are there to act as shielding between the original
> ATA 40 conductors. They must be grounded to work properly. If the wrong
> end of the cable is plugged into the MB then the grounding will not
> happen.
>
> http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/id...Cable80-c.html
>
> --
> John McGaw
> [Knoxville, TN, USA]
> http://johnmcgaw.com
"VWWall" wrote:
> Timothy Daniels wrote:
>
>> Yeah, the circuitry is more tolerant of non-standard cabling
>> than the specs imply. Also, cirtuitry might be correcting for
>> an increased error rate that you're not aware of. It might
>> even be reducing the transfer rate to compensate. That
>> said, I use "round" cables in my PC, and I love 'em.
>
> See my reply to Alceryes. The only way increased error rate might be
> incurred, is leaving a "stub" of a cable unconnected with only one drive
> at the middle connector. This could pick up EMF which might interfere
> with data transfer.
You meant "EMI" - electromagnetic interference. But that's
the reason for the ground wire alongside each data wire -
to prevent such pickup.
The ATA specs make the ribbon cable asymmetric for a
reason. I suspect that it's to make signal reflections (if they
occur) arrive at non-disruptive times. That is why an open
end connector is bad - it produces reflections due to the
infinite impedance there, and the reflected signals arrive
back at one or both of the other connectors at inopportune
times.
> The main advantage of SATA is to get rid of all this nonsense! ;-)
> The cables are much smaller than even round cables!
Right, but those cables are *stiff*. I wish they'd designed
'em to have more flexibility.
Some of those links are broken, and I don't read Kanji.
Could you summarize the results? How did the 80-wire
shielded round cables stack up against 80-wire ribbon
cables?
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 14:59:36 +0200, "Peter" <peter@planet.nl> wrote:
>The cable has a blue and a black end, Which side goes on to the motherboard?
>
This page says 80-wire cable is not compatible with 40-wire CS cable.
Anybody know why that is and how do you then replace the 40-wire CS
with what 80-wire cable?
ATA cable 
Linear Mode
