I have a ScanDisk Cruzer Blade USB FLASH DRIVE - 8GB.
I want to make it a bootable XP USB drive. I have not been successful
at all, using 'pe2usb' primarily. My Googling tells me that there is
a known problem trying to do this with USB drives over 2GB.
Is that true?
Has anyone been successful?
If so, how? What did you use?
I thought this was a great idea - purpose to preserve my original XP
install capability. I have already had two XP installation CDs fail
from simply sitting on the shelf.
Ape wrote:
> I have a ScanDisk Cruzer Blade USB FLASH DRIVE - 8GB.
>
> I want to make it a bootable XP USB drive. I have not been successful
> at all, using 'pe2usb' primarily. My Googling tells me that there is
> a known problem trying to do this with USB drives over 2GB.
>
> Is that true?
> Has anyone been successful?
> If so, how? What did you use?
>
> I thought this was a great idea - purpose to preserve my original XP
> install capability. I have already had two XP installation CDs fail
> from simply sitting on the shelf.
>
> TX
>
> The Apeman
You should clarify what you're trying to build here. Some possibilities.
1) Your flash device is a WinXP C: drive, and you attempt to boot
WinXP from that C: drive. Via activation, the drive is paired with
one PC (i.e. the OS is not really "portable").
To make that work, the search term is "BootBusExtenders".
Example thread, here.
2) Your reference to pe2usb, suggests what you're doing, is moving
a BartPE (preinstall environment) disc to a USB flash. As discussed
here. It uses a RAMDisk created when it runs, to avoid the BootBusExtenders
problem (USB bus is reset, while pulling files over the USB bus, and
boot process stops). If the files are staged on the RAMDisk, the RAMDisk
doesn't get disconnected when the USB reset happens.
I don't immediately see how the size of the device comes into play.
It's true, that FAT file systems, have upper limits on the max size
of the file system, and a 2GB limit certainly exists. If the thing
booting insists on an older file system, you might be stuck.
Be aware, that for storage devices, there are two ways they can be
prepared. With a partition table, or without a partition table.
If you could use a primary partition table, you could define one
partition (the active one), to be slightly less than 2GB, leaving the
rest of the Cruzer unallocated. To start this process, I'd probably
load the USB flash into Linux, use fdisk, and define the partition structure,
as I don't think Windows typically likes to use a partition table there.
Now, the pe2usb tool might not like that. As the intrepid experimenter,
you'd just have to try a few things.
I have a BartPE disc, and I use it so seldom, I doubt I'd ever have
an interest in a USB flash version. I'd only end up erasing it and
putting some other OS on it. I don't own a lot of USB sticks. Of
the sticks I own, one was purposely bought to be small - a 1GB stick,
because a stick at that size, avoids FAT problems. Trouble is, finding
a stick that small now, is more difficult. The average stick for
sale will be bigger than that (bigger stick, can charge more money,
and sneak in a larger profit margin). Using the small stick, is for
cases where the installation tool insists on applying things like
FAT16, to the entire flash drive (and blowing up at 2GB).
The "HP formatter" was an example of such a tool type.
On Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:09:42 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>You should clarify what you're trying to build here.
Hi Paul -
I shud'v known you'd chime in. Thank you for your responses. They
are always well thought out and useful.
What I thought to do - bad idea I guess - was to build a bootable USB
that would not only enable me to avoid the XP install CD, which seems
to wear itself out doing nothing, and replace it with its equivalent
on more dependable USB. I thought I could add folders of copies of
the software installation CD's that I frequently add to a given
installation. They go bad too. For example printer softwares, free
virus checker, free disk cleanup softwares, free burners and players,
etc.
I think I'll begin thinking of doing this with two USB's. A small one
to boot. A larger one for the rest.
Or maybe just forget it.
Ape Man
>
>1) Your flash device is a WinXP C: drive, and you attempt to boot
> WinXP from that C: drive. Via activation, the drive is paired with
> one PC (i.e. the OS is not really "portable").
>
> To make that work, the search term is "BootBusExtenders".
> Example thread, here.
>
> http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic116114.html
>
>2) Your reference to pe2usb, suggests what you're doing, is moving
> a BartPE (preinstall environment) disc to a USB flash. As discussed
> here. It uses a RAMDisk created when it runs, to avoid the BootBusExtenders
> problem (USB bus is reset, while pulling files over the USB bus, and
> boot process stops). If the files are staged on the RAMDisk, the RAMDisk
> doesn't get disconnected when the USB reset happens.
>
> http://www.911cd.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=10806
>
>I don't immediately see how the size of the device comes into play.
>It's true, that FAT file systems, have upper limits on the max size
>of the file system, and a 2GB limit certainly exists. If the thing
>booting insists on an older file system, you might be stuck.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
>
> FAT16: 2 GB (4 GB for 64 KB clusters)
>
>Be aware, that for storage devices, there are two ways they can be
>prepared. With a partition table, or without a partition table.
>If you could use a primary partition table, you could define one
>partition (the active one), to be slightly less than 2GB, leaving the
>rest of the Cruzer unallocated. To start this process, I'd probably
>load the USB flash into Linux, use fdisk, and define the partition structure,
>as I don't think Windows typically likes to use a partition table there.
>Now, the pe2usb tool might not like that. As the intrepid experimenter,
>you'd just have to try a few things.
>
>I have a BartPE disc, and I use it so seldom, I doubt I'd ever have
>an interest in a USB flash version. I'd only end up erasing it and
>putting some other OS on it. I don't own a lot of USB sticks. Of
>the sticks I own, one was purposely bought to be small - a 1GB stick,
>because a stick at that size, avoids FAT problems. Trouble is, finding
>a stick that small now, is more difficult. The average stick for
>sale will be bigger than that (bigger stick, can charge more money,
>and sneak in a larger profit margin). Using the small stick, is for
>cases where the installation tool insists on applying things like
>FAT16, to the entire flash drive (and blowing up at 2GB).
>The "HP formatter" was an example of such a tool type.
>
> Paul
On 2/14/2012 1:23 PM, Ape wrote:
> I have a ScanDisk Cruzer Blade USB FLASH DRIVE - 8GB.
>
> I want to make it a bootable XP USB drive. I have not been successful
> at all, using 'pe2usb' primarily. My Googling tells me that there is
> a known problem trying to do this with USB drives over 2GB.
>
> Is that true?
> Has anyone been successful?
> If so, how? What did you use?
>
> I thought this was a great idea - purpose to preserve my original XP
> install capability. I have already had two XP installation CDs fail
> from simply sitting on the shelf.
>
> TX
>
> The Apeman
I have used the program found at the following link to transfer bootable
ISO files, including Windows 7 onto flash drives. Fortunately the
motherboard/ROM's in my PC's seem to be compatible with installing
directly from the USB port.
With luck your PC's will not be one of those that come up with the
"NTLDR is missing" message as mentioned at the bottom of the web page.
If the program claims success on installing an ISO file to your flash
drive you still need to actually try to use it to verify the motherboard
and ROM is compatible with installing from the USB port.
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:10:31 -0600, GlowingBlueMist
<glowingbluemist@truely.invalid> wrote:
>I have used the program found at the following link to transfer bootable
>ISO files, including Windows 7 onto flash drives. Fortunately the
>motherboard/ROM's in my PC's seem to be compatible with installing
>directly from the USB port.
>
>http://www.isotousb.com/
>
>With luck your PC's will not be one of those that come up with the
>"NTLDR is missing" message as mentioned at the bottom of the web page.
>
>If the program claims success on installing an ISO file to your flash
>drive you still need to actually try to use it to verify the motherboard
>and ROM is compatible with installing from the USB port.
I tried isotousb. It executed without any errors creating hopefully a
bootable XP on my 1GB flash drive. I tried booting up with the drive
on three XP machines - all failed to boot, saying 'disk error'. I
suppose the disk error is for the flash drive.
On 02/14/2012 01:23 PM, Ape wrote:
> I have a ScanDisk Cruzer Blade USB FLASH DRIVE - 8GB.
>
> I want to make it a bootable XP USB drive. I have not been successful
> at all, using 'pe2usb' primarily. My Googling tells me that there is
> a known problem trying to do this with USB drives over 2GB.
>
> Is that true?
> Has anyone been successful?
> If so, how? What did you use?
>
> I thought this was a great idea - purpose to preserve my original XP
> install capability. I have already had two XP installation CDs fail
> from simply sitting on the shelf.
>
> TX
>
> The Apeman
XP is not made to be booted from a USB device.
If you Google though you can find the procedure to hack it.
It's quite complicated and the bottom line is that it works quite poorly.
If you really insist on running XP from an external drive,
the only way to go is eSATA
On 2/18/2012 10:42 AM, Ape wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 06:10:31 -0600, GlowingBlueMist
> <glowingbluemist@truely.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>> I have used the program found at the following link to transfer bootable
>> ISO files, including Windows 7 onto flash drives. Fortunately the
>> motherboard/ROM's in my PC's seem to be compatible with installing
>> directly from the USB port.
>>
>> http://www.isotousb.com/
>>
>> With luck your PC's will not be one of those that come up with the
>> "NTLDR is missing" message as mentioned at the bottom of the web page.
>>
>> If the program claims success on installing an ISO file to your flash
>> drive you still need to actually try to use it to verify the motherboard
>> and ROM is compatible with installing from the USB port.
>
>
> I tried isotousb. It executed without any errors creating hopefully a
> bootable XP on my 1GB flash drive. I tried booting up with the drive
> on three XP machines - all failed to boot, saying 'disk error'. I
> suppose the disk error is for the flash drive.
>
> Oh well.......with an H
>
> Apeman
Oh well it was worth a try. You might want to verify the USB drive is
formatted in FAT or FAT32 rather than NTFS as some systems don't like
the newer NTFS format until after an OS is installed that understands it.
Some motherboards need the older USB compatibility option (or similar
name) turned on to boot from a flash. Usually it's just for keyboards
and mice but some need it to read drives properly during a boot.
Another test if you are still up to trying things would be the freeware
program Unetbootin and have it install a bootable version of Puppy Linux
on the flash drive and see if your system(s) can boot from that. If so
then it's not the hardware issue with your flash/PC but a software
incompatibility of some kind. The Windows version of the program can
download and install Puppy, or other versions of normally bootable
Linux, all in one pass eliminating the need for you to download Puppy
separately. Puppy is small, about 100MB, so the download time is
usually quick unless your stuck on a dial-up link.
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:49:07 -0600, GlowingBlueMist
<glowingbluemist@truely.invalid> wrote:
>
>Oh well it was worth a try. You might want to verify the USB drive is
>formatted in FAT or FAT32 rather than NTFS as some systems don't like
>the newer NTFS format until after an OS is installed that understands it.
It is FAT32.
Apeman
>
>Some motherboards need the older USB compatibility option (or similar
>name) turned on to boot from a flash. Usually it's just for keyboards
>and mice but some need it to read drives properly during a boot.
>
>Another test if you are still up to trying things would be the freeware
>program Unetbootin and have it install a bootable version of Puppy Linux
>on the flash drive and see if your system(s) can boot from that. If so
>then it's not the hardware issue with your flash/PC but a software
>incompatibility of some kind. The Windows version of the program can
>download and install Puppy, or other versions of normally bootable
>Linux, all in one pass eliminating the need for you to download Puppy
>separately. Puppy is small, about 100MB, so the download time is
>usually quick unless your stuck on a dial-up link.
>
>The link to the program is: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
>
>
All HPUSBF.EXE did for me was format the flash drive FAT32 clean. No
bootable OS on it. No surprise I guess since I would read the
filename to mean format the USB.
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:56:44 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Ape <Tarzan@Plaanet.Edu> schreef op Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:46:10 -0500 in artikel <dp60k754nd5h0fij70if225c2buchab1qp@4ax.com>:
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:46:38 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >philo <philo@privacy.net> schreef op Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:47:06 -0600 in artikel <jhoo6q$ipn$1@dont-email.me>:
>>
>> >Yes, it is possible, see:
>> >
>> >http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=197
>> >
>> >I use it with XP for made a backup with Ghost2K3.exe
>>
>> All HPUSBF.EXE did for me was format the flash drive FAT32 clean. No
>> bootable OS on it. No surprise I guess since I would read the
>> filename to mean format the USB.
>
>It works for me, for several years. Read the website
The website says:
HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool
Doesn't that mean just a format?
Ape
>. The flash drive
>contains IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM and a number of drivers. Do
>not forget instruct the BIOS te start from the flash drive.
Ape wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:56:44 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Ape <Tarzan@Plaanet.Edu> schreef op Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:46:10 -0500 in artikel <dp60k754nd5h0fij70if225c2buchab1qp@4ax.com>:
>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:46:38 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> philo <philo@privacy.net> schreef op Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:47:06 -0600 in artikel <jhoo6q$ipn$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>> Yes, it is possible, see:
>>>>
>>>> http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=197
>>>>
>>>> I use it with XP for made a backup with Ghost2K3.exe
>>> All HPUSBF.EXE did for me was format the flash drive FAT32 clean. No
>>> bootable OS on it. No surprise I guess since I would read the
>>> filename to mean format the USB.
>> It works for me, for several years. Read the website
>
> The website says:
> HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool
>
> Doesn't that mean just a format?
>
> Ape
>
>> . The flash drive
>> contains IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM and a number of drivers. Do
>> not forget instruct the BIOS te start from the flash drive.
>
> Mine is clean.
>
>> De volumenaam van station O is ASUSBU
>> Het volumenummer is 28B6-1FD8
>>
>> Map van O:\
>>
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 222.390 IO.SYS
>> 18-07-1999 21:05 9 MSDOS.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 93.890 COMMAND.COM
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 1.416 SETRAMD.BAT
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 35.330 ASPI2DOS.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 14.386 ASPI4DOS.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 37.564 ASPI8DOS.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 40.792 ASPI8U2.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 29.620 ASPICD.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 1.103 AUTOEXEC.BAT
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 21.971 BTCDROM.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 30.955 BTDOSM.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 629 CONFIG.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 68.871 DRVSPACE.BIN
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 272.206 EBD.CAB
>> 18-07-1999 21:05 0 EBD.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 93.242 EXTRACT.EXE
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 63.916 FDISK.EXE
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 6.855 FINDRAMD.EXE
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 64.425 FLASHPT.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 33.191 HIMEM.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 41.302 OAKCDROM.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 12.663 RAMDRIVE.SYS
>> 23-04-1999 22:22 14.764 README.TXT
>> 01-10-2002 18:15 1.024.024 Ghost2K3.exe
>> 28-07-2010 18:46 904 BOOTLOG.PRV
>> 28-07-2010 19:31 162 BOOTLOG.TXT
>
> I wonder - where did these files come from?
>
> Ape
> \
For the HP USB Formatter, there were several versions. Different
downloads from the HP site.
The one I got, consists of a formatter, plus enough DOS files
to make it bootable. The formatter really wasn't the whole intention
of the software in question. It was to make enough of a boot
environment, so that you could do a firmware update. The
package would also include the programming software and
the firmware file.
By offering it for USB, it solved the problem of updating HP
computers which did not have a floppy drive.
What the HP formatter could not handle, is USB Flash devices larger
than 2GB. It would format the USB either as FAT12 or FAT16, but
didn't seem to have FAT32. If the free DOS they were using supported
FAT32, perhaps that would have been an option as well.
*******
"Bootable USB - for system BIOS update
Creates a bootable HP Flash Disk that can be used to locally update the
video BIOS.
To make an HP Flash Disk bootable, install the "HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool",
HPUSBFormatter.exe. After the Format Tool has been installed execute the application;
by default it is located in c:\DriveKey\HPUSBFW.EXE. Choose to "Create a DOS startup
disk" and select the FREEDOS folder from this Softpaq as the location in the field
"using DOS system files located at". After the format has completed and the disk is
bootable, copy the contents of the DOSFLASH folder onto the Flash drive and follow
the DOSFLASH instructions to flash the video BIOS.
Files included in this folder:
HPUSBFormatter.exe
Readme.txt
freedos\command.com
freedos\kernel.sys
freedos\src\com082pl1.exe
freedos\src\ke2029src.exe
freedos\src\README
Copyright (c) 2005 Hewlett-Packard Development Company, L.P."
*******
Mine seems to be based on sp33221.exe (9,028,248 bytes).
And the description here, tells you why customers were really
supposed to be downloading it. But it does contain an instance
of the "HP Formatter" as a component part.
On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:42:20 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>Read the website. I can it, why should'nt you can?
Sorry about dat. My 1GB (yes 1GB) flash drive is now bootable to DOS,
with said DOS files available from the flash drive. All except your
large Ghost executable, that is.
Sitting in DOS, ready to install, say W98, won't help me with booting
to XP, or starting an install of XP which is my goal. XP's setup.exe
is not DOS executable of course.
Thanks
Apeman
Ape wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 23:42:20 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> Read the website. I can it, why should'nt you can?
>
> Sorry about dat. My 1GB (yes 1GB) flash drive is now bootable to DOS,
> with said DOS files available from the flash drive. All except your
> large Ghost executable, that is.
>
> Sitting in DOS, ready to install, say W98, won't help me with booting
> to XP, or starting an install of XP which is my goal. XP's setup.exe
> is not DOS executable of course.
> Thanks
> Apeman
The WinXP has two executables. One works in DOS, one works in a
32 bit Windows environment. Try both of them. (You'd use the 32 bit
one, if you were currently booted into Win2K, and were attempting to
upgrade.)
WINNT32.EXE
WINNT.EXE
A naively constructed DOS boot disk, when used to install WinXP,
will lack good file caching. The file copy phase can run extremely
slowly. Don't panic. It will finish eventually, and after the next
reboot step, the installation will pick up to the normal speed. It
isn't worth the time to fix the DOS system, for improved
performance - it will take you more time to add files and fiddle around,
than you'll save time during the installation. These are the options
I tried with smartdrv here. Smartdrv is not perfect, in that the
cache seems to purge itself at regular intervals, so it slows
down every once in a while. The reason I'm using the large settings
seen in this example, was I was experimenting to see how large
I could make them. It didn't seem to help, to make them this large.
It still suffered occasional slowdowns, while some of the 5000 files
on the WinXP installer were copied.
And this is my config.sys. The X=A000-CFFF was applicable
on my Asrock VIA based motherboard, for some reason, and
took me a whole bunch of reboots until I worked out the
right range (at least, with these settings, I could
finish the boot OK). My current Intel chipset motherboard,
might need some other settings. The question mark after
DEVICE, causes the boot process to pause until you hit Enter.
I like to view the output, after each step, to be sure
everything is OK.
Since I use that floppy for more than just installing WinXP, it
has stuff in it you don't need. You could try just adding
smartdrv for example, as a first step. Or, not bother at all,
your choice.
So as a non-expert, I find the boot floppy, needed to be
adjusted, depending on the computer it was used on.
For help with DOS, try this site. Smartdrv is listed here
as a topic.
> Sitting in DOS, ready to install, say W98, won't help me with booting
> to XP, or starting an install of XP which is my goal. XP's setup.exe
> is not DOS executable of course.
Well, the winnt.exe on the XP CD is a DOS executable. Microsoft
themselves has instructions on how to start XP install from MS-DOS at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307848
As for booting XP from a USB anything, I've never tried it. Last time I
installed it was from a CD created by nLite, which is a pretty cool tool
for creating XP installation CDs, you can integrate things like drivers
and remove things you don't want.
The site states: Optionally you can also make the disk BOOTABLE by
specifying a file location. Use the Windows 98 system files available
here. I duly downloaded win98boot.zip which I unpacked to a set of 30
system files plus a cdrom folder containing 6 more files. I see some
of those files in your list, some not. I see nothing that I
recognize would help me with booting XP.
Interestingly, when I execute HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8
specifying the downloaded folder of W98 files, the USB drive only ends
up with only 316KB of three files:
command.com
io.sys
msdos.sys
Make sense? Obviously I am missing something somewhere.
I will be away next two days - funeral for a good buddy dammit.
Cya when I get back.
Thanks
Apeman
wrote:
>Ape <Tarzan@Plaanet.Edu> schreef op Sat, 18 Feb 2012 17:41:24 -0500 in artikel <q2a0k71gg1d7469vbruegnlntddv0pvpb6@4ax.com>:
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 22:56:44 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Ape <Tarzan@Plaanet.Edu> schreef op Sat, 18 Feb 2012 16:46:10 -0500 in artikel <dp60k754nd5h0fij70if225c2buchab1qp@4ax.com>:
>> >> On Sat, 18 Feb 2012 19:46:38 +0100, Jawade <Henk_Jawade@hotmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >philo <philo@privacy.net> schreef op Sat, 18 Feb 2012 11:47:06 -0600 in artikel <jhoo6q$ipn$1@dont-email.me>:
>> >>
>> >> >Yes, it is possible, see:
>> >> >
>> >> >http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=197
>> >> >
>> >> >I use it with XP for made a backup with Ghost2K3.exe
>> >>
>> >> All HPUSBF.EXE did for me was format the flash drive FAT32 clean. No
>> >> bootable OS on it. No surprise I guess since I would read the
>> >> filename to mean format the USB.
>> >
>> >It works for me, for several years. Read the website
>>
>> The website says:
>> HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool
>>
>> Doesn't that mean just a format?
>>
>> Ape
>>
>> >. The flash drive
>> >contains IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM and a number of drivers. Do
>> >not forget instruct the BIOS te start from the flash drive.
>>
>> Mine is clean.
>>
>> >
>> > De volumenaam van station O is ASUSBU
>> > Het volumenummer is 28B6-1FD8
>> >
>> > Map van O:\
>> >
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 222.390 IO.SYS
>> >18-07-1999 21:05 9 MSDOS.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 93.890 COMMAND.COM
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 1.416 SETRAMD.BAT
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 35.330 ASPI2DOS.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 14.386 ASPI4DOS.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 37.564 ASPI8DOS.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 40.792 ASPI8U2.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 29.620 ASPICD.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 1.103 AUTOEXEC.BAT
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 21.971 BTCDROM.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 30.955 BTDOSM.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 629 CONFIG.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 68.871 DRVSPACE.BIN
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 272.206 EBD.CAB
>> >18-07-1999 21:05 0 EBD.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 93.242 EXTRACT.EXE
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 63.916 FDISK.EXE
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 6.855 FINDRAMD.EXE
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 64.425 FLASHPT.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 33.191 HIMEM.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 41.302 OAKCDROM.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 12.663 RAMDRIVE.SYS
>> >23-04-1999 22:22 14.764 README.TXT
>> >01-10-2002 18:15 1.024.024 Ghost2K3.exe
>> >28-07-2010 18:46 904 BOOTLOG.PRV
>> >28-07-2010 19:31 162 BOOTLOG.TXT
>>
>> I wonder - where did these files come from?
>
>Read the website. I can it, why should'nt you can?
>
>
>Met vriendelijke groeten, Jawade.
Ape wrote:
> I went to http://files.extremeoverclocking.com/file.php?f=197
> and downloaded/installed HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8
>
> The site states: Optionally you can also make the disk BOOTABLE by
> specifying a file location. Use the Windows 98 system files available
> here. I duly downloaded win98boot.zip which I unpacked to a set of 30
> system files plus a cdrom folder containing 6 more files. I see some
> of those files in your list, some not. I see nothing that I
> recognize would help me with booting XP.
>
> Interestingly, when I execute HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8
> specifying the downloaded folder of W98 files, the USB drive only ends
> up with only 316KB of three files:
>
> command.com
> io.sys
> msdos.sys
>
>
> Make sense? Obviously I am missing something somewhere.
> I will be away next two days - funeral for a good buddy dammit.
> Cya when I get back.
> Thanks
> Apeman
That is likely the minimum set of files that will work.
Nothing stops you from copying any other files you might
like, if you want to add features. My floppy has a whole
bunch of odds and ends, to suit various usages.
For example, MSDOS doesn't need smartdrv.exe in order to work.
It's optional, but improves storage performance.
I think the FreeDOS minimum file set, is small like that too.
FreeDOS is used on things like Seagate Seatools for DOS, and
is included in the download image. I think that has grown
large enough, it comes on a CD image now. (FreeDOS also has
its own web site.)
Another thing, is applications. MSDOS had an editor, which is
not normally included when you build one of these "BIOS flashing"
floppies. A complete OS with all included goodies would be quite
a bit larger.
If you do a Google search on
command.com io.sys msdos.sys
you will undoubtedly discover what each of those files covers
in terms of the OS design.
On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:40:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>That is likely the minimum set of files that will work.
>Nothing stops you from copying any other files you might
>like, if you want to add features. My floppy has a whole
>bunch of odds and ends, to suit various usages.
>
>For example, MSDOS doesn't need smartdrv.exe in order to work.
>It's optional, but improves storage performance.
>
>I think the FreeDOS minimum file set, is small like that too.
>FreeDOS is used on things like Seagate Seatools for DOS, and
>is included in the download image. I think that has grown
>large enough, it comes on a CD image now. (FreeDOS also has
>its own web site.)
>
>Another thing, is applications. MSDOS had an editor, which is
>not normally included when you build one of these "BIOS flashing"
>floppies. A complete OS with all included goodies would be quite
>a bit larger.
>
>If you do a Google search on
>
> command.com io.sys msdos.sys
>
>you will undoubtedly discover what each of those files covers
>in terms of the OS design.
>
> Paul
I'm back.
Thanks - I agree. What confused me is that I went to all the trouble
of telling HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8 to download some
30 files plus a CDROM folder and told HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool
- v2.1.8 to load that when it formatted the USB. But it didn't. Why
not?
I do agree that I can load the rest on the USB manually. Just seems
that HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8 should have done it.
Ape wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 13:40:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>> That is likely the minimum set of files that will work.
>> Nothing stops you from copying any other files you might
>> like, if you want to add features. My floppy has a whole
>> bunch of odds and ends, to suit various usages.
>>
>> For example, MSDOS doesn't need smartdrv.exe in order to work.
>> It's optional, but improves storage performance.
>>
>> I think the FreeDOS minimum file set, is small like that too.
>> FreeDOS is used on things like Seagate Seatools for DOS, and
>> is included in the download image. I think that has grown
>> large enough, it comes on a CD image now. (FreeDOS also has
>> its own web site.)
>>
>> Another thing, is applications. MSDOS had an editor, which is
>> not normally included when you build one of these "BIOS flashing"
>> floppies. A complete OS with all included goodies would be quite
>> a bit larger.
>>
>> If you do a Google search on
>>
>> command.com io.sys msdos.sys
>>
>> you will undoubtedly discover what each of those files covers
>> in terms of the OS design.
>>
>> Paul
> I'm back.
>
> Thanks - I agree. What confused me is that I went to all the trouble
> of telling HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8 to download some
> 30 files plus a CDROM folder and told HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool
> - v2.1.8 to load that when it formatted the USB. But it didn't. Why
> not?
>
> I do agree that I can load the rest on the USB manually. Just seems
> that HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool - v2.1.8 should have done it.
>
> ApeMan
If the image, with three files on it, was bootable, then that
is defined as "success" :-)
But to be useful, the MSDOS boot disk can use a few items added to
it. For example, mine has two CDROM packages, intended to allow
mounting a CDROM device. That isn't necessary, when I'm installing
an OS (because I store the i386 folder on the hard drive ahead of time),
but the CDROM access comes in handy in other situations.
I don't use that floppy often enough, to even remember why half the
stuff is on there. Doing a "hard drive install" of WinXP, without
the CD, was an experiment, just to see if it could be done. And it
worked fine. The machine I'm typing this on, was installed that way -
one FAT32 partition was C:, while an adjacent FAT32 partition held the
i386 folder with 5000 files in it, for doing the install. Just
change directory to D:\i386 while in the DOS window, and away it went.
My version of MSDOS, supports FAT32, which is why the two partitions
were FAT32 type (so MSDOS can "see" them during the initial copy phase).
If you don't have the smartdrv.exe thing bolted into your MSDOS,
it might take 2 hours or so to finish the install. The initial
file copy phase, being the slow step.
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:24:08 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>If the image, with three files on it, was bootable, then that
>is defined as "success" :-)
Well - my download from the link in HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool
v2.1.8 to the W98 boot files produced a ZIP file not an image file.
The former decompressed to the many files I mentioned earlier.
That's why I was surprised that only three files ended up on the USB.
The USB does not boot into XP at all. Just DOS.
You indicate that you booted into XP with what you had on your USB.
Did you just copy the content of an XP image file (including I386
folder) onto your USB? And was that sufficient to get the USB to boot
up in XP?
For sure, I am feeling quite stupid right now on all this.
ApeMan
>
>But to be useful, the MSDOS boot disk can use a few items added to
>it. For example, mine has two CDROM packages, intended to allow
>mounting a CDROM device. That isn't necessary, when I'm installing
>an OS (because I store the i386 folder on the hard drive ahead of time),
>but the CDROM access comes in handy in other situations.
>
>I don't use that floppy often enough, to even remember why half the
>stuff is on there. Doing a "hard drive install" of WinXP, without
>the CD, was an experiment, just to see if it could be done. And it
>worked fine. The machine I'm typing this on, was installed that way -
>one FAT32 partition was C:, while an adjacent FAT32 partition held the
>i386 folder with 5000 files in it, for doing the install. Just
>change directory to D:\i386 while in the DOS window, and away it went.
>My version of MSDOS, supports FAT32, which is why the two partitions
>were FAT32 type (so MSDOS can "see" them during the initial copy phase).
>
>If you don't have the smartdrv.exe thing bolted into your MSDOS,
>it might take 2 hours or so to finish the install. The initial
>file copy phase, being the slow step.
>
> Paul
Ape wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 15:24:08 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
>
>> If the image, with three files on it, was bootable, then that
>> is defined as "success" :-)
>
> Well - my download from the link in HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool
> v2.1.8 to the W98 boot files produced a ZIP file not an image file.
> The former decompressed to the many files I mentioned earlier.
> That's why I was surprised that only three files ended up on the USB.
> The USB does not boot into XP at all. Just DOS.
>
> You indicate that you booted into XP with what you had on your USB.
> Did you just copy the content of an XP image file (including I386
> folder) onto your USB? And was that sufficient to get the USB to boot
> up in XP?
>
> For sure, I am feeling quite stupid right now on all this.
>
>
> ApeMan
Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here.
My MSDOS floppy, only boots into DOS. It has no other magical properties.
But once in there, I can run the setup application in the i386
folder, and start a WinXP installation. When you start a WinXP
installation, the first stage is "file copying", where the
files are moved from the install media, to the new C: partition.
Once that step is complete (and in this case, done while
DOS is running), the system can be rebooted and will then
start running from the contents of C:. Once it does so, it
continues with the installation, until all steps are finished.
Only during the first stage of the installation, is my DOS
floppy running. After that, the hard drive can be used to finish
the job.
<---- First stage, copies files, D: to C: <----
Running "D:\i386\winnt.exe" starts this...
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
| New C: partition (FAT32) | D:\i386 (holds files from a CD, FAT32) |
+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
+----------------------+
| A: my MSDOS floppy |
+----------------------+
*******
You can boot WinXP from a USB hard drive - this requires modifications
to BootBusExtenders, to prevent problems with the USB bus disconnecting
in the middle of the boot process. And the resulting hard drive image,
isn't suited for sharing over multiple computers, because of the
Activation issues that would cause.
You can prepare a WinPE (Preinstall Environment) disc, such as BartPE.
I've used that to run programs, but you have to load the programs
onto the optical disc in a particular way (as it's not a full environment and
has limitations).
The WinXP CD itself, boots into recovery console, which is a DOS-like
environment suited to doing repair work on the hard drive partition.
But this too, is of limited value for general purpose work. You
couldn't run Word or Excel from there, for example.
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:27:09 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here.
>
>My MSDOS floppy, only boots into DOS. It has no other magical properties.
That I believe.
>
>But once in there, I can run the setup application in the i386
>folder, and start a WinXP installation. When you start a WinXP
>installation, the first stage is "file copying", where the
>files are moved from the install media, to the new C: partition.
>Once that step is complete (and in this case, done while
>DOS is running), the system can be rebooted and will then
>start running from the contents of C:. Once it does so, it
>continues with the installation, until all steps are finished.
>
I copied the content of my OS installation CD onto the USB. And then
tried an install of that OS, using its setup.exe. Quickly discovered
that the USB boots into DOS mode and that the OS setup.exe as well as
other executables are not executable in DOS.
Now what?
ApeMan
>Only during the first stage of the installation, is my DOS
>floppy running. After that, the hard drive can be used to finish
>the job.
>
> <---- First stage, copies files, D: to C: <----
> Running "D:\i386\winnt.exe" starts this...
>+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
>| New C: partition (FAT32) | D:\i386 (holds files from a CD, FAT32) |
>+----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
>
>+----------------------+
>| A: my MSDOS floppy |
>+----------------------+
>
>*******
>
>You can boot WinXP from a USB hard drive - this requires modifications
>to BootBusExtenders, to prevent problems with the USB bus disconnecting
>in the middle of the boot process. And the resulting hard drive image,
>isn't suited for sharing over multiple computers, because of the
>Activation issues that would cause.
>
>http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic116114.html
>
>You can prepare a WinPE (Preinstall Environment) disc, such as BartPE.
>I've used that to run programs, but you have to load the programs
>onto the optical disc in a particular way (as it's not a full environment and
>has limitations).
>
>The WinXP CD itself, boots into recovery console, which is a DOS-like
>environment suited to doing repair work on the hard drive partition.
>But this too, is of limited value for general purpose work. You
>couldn't run Word or Excel from there, for example.
>
>HTH,
> Paul
Ape wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 19:27:09 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry if I gave the wrong impression here.
>>
>> My MSDOS floppy, only boots into DOS. It has no other magical properties.
>
> That I believe.
>
>> But once in there, I can run the setup application in the i386
>> folder, and start a WinXP installation. When you start a WinXP
>> installation, the first stage is "file copying", where the
>> files are moved from the install media, to the new C: partition.
>> Once that step is complete (and in this case, done while
>> DOS is running), the system can be rebooted and will then
>> start running from the contents of C:. Once it does so, it
>> continues with the installation, until all steps are finished.
>>
>
> I copied the content of my OS installation CD onto the USB. And then
> tried an install of that OS, using its setup.exe. Quickly discovered
> that the USB boots into DOS mode and that the OS setup.exe as well as
> other executables are not executable in DOS.
> Now what?
>
> ApeMan
Did you try "winnt.exe" from the i386 folder. (Use whatever
drive letter your i386 folder is on. In this example, mine was D: )
D: <--- change current working directory to D:
cd \ <--- remove any bogus path from D
cd i386 <--- Now, we'll be in D:\i386
winnt.exe <--- This will try to run D:\i386\winnt.exe
Winnt could be the DOS compatible one,
while winnt32.exe is probably not DOS worthy.
HTH,
Paul
>
>> Only during the first stage of the installation, is my DOS
>> floppy running. After that, the hard drive can be used to finish
>> the job.
>>
>> <---- First stage, copies files, D: to C: <----
>> Running "D:\i386\winnt.exe" starts this...
>> +----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
>> | New C: partition (FAT32) | D:\i386 (holds files from a CD, FAT32) |
>> +----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
>>
>> +----------------------+
>> | A: my MSDOS floppy |
>> +----------------------+
>>
>> *******
>>
>> You can boot WinXP from a USB hard drive - this requires modifications
>> to BootBusExtenders, to prevent problems with the USB bus disconnecting
>> in the middle of the boot process. And the resulting hard drive image,
>> isn't suited for sharing over multiple computers, because of the
>> Activation issues that would cause.
>>
>> http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic116114.html
>>
>> You can prepare a WinPE (Preinstall Environment) disc, such as BartPE.
>> I've used that to run programs, but you have to load the programs
>> onto the optical disc in a particular way (as it's not a full environment and
>> has limitations).
>>
>> The WinXP CD itself, boots into recovery console, which is a DOS-like
>> environment suited to doing repair work on the hard drive partition.
>> But this too, is of limited value for general purpose work. You
>> couldn't run Word or Excel from there, for example.
>>
>> HTH,
>> Paul
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:13:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>Did you try "winnt.exe" from the i386 folder. (Use whatever
>drive letter your i386 folder is on. In this example, mine was D: )
>
> D: <--- change current working directory to D:
> cd \ <--- remove any bogus path from D
> cd i386 <--- Now, we'll be in D:\i386
> winnt.exe <--- This will try to run D:\i386\winnt.exe
> Winnt could be the DOS compatible one,
> while winnt32.exe is probably not DOS worthy.
>HTH,
> Paul
Yes, but no luck. Needs some system setup to make it go - smartdrv,
mscdex, micron, etc. In an effort to do that, I now have an
autoexec,bat file that came from one of the google results I found for
making a bootable UDB. It contains:
@echo off
mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R
set cddrive=R:
call mouse.bat
I can't interpret what mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R means. Can you
interpret this line and if and what I need to make it work? Paul?
Should I download micron in some form? I can't find same.
[Menu]
menucolor=15,1
menuitem=SCSI,For systems with an Adaptec UW (SCSI) CD or DVD
menuitem=LVD,For systems with an Adaptec U2 (LVD) CD or DVD
menuitem=IDE,For systems with an IDE/Atapi CD or DVD (Default)
menudefault=IDE,0
;set menu default to IDE and by pass menu change "0" to = number of
seconds
;[common]
SET ENDFLAG=1
;Flag to denote the end of the config.sys file.
I see 'micron' throughout it also. Maybe you could
interpret/sanitize/correct this config.sys file for me also?
If not, just say so, and I will struggle on further by myself in this
wasteland.
Thanks
ApeMan
>>
>>> Only during the first stage of the installation, is my DOS
>>> floppy running. After that, the hard drive can be used to finish
>>> the job.
>>>
>>> <---- First stage, copies files, D: to C: <----
>>> Running "D:\i386\winnt.exe" starts this...
>>> +----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
>>> | New C: partition (FAT32) | D:\i386 (holds files from a CD, FAT32) |
>>> +----------------------------+----------------------------------------+
>>>
>>> +----------------------+
>>> | A: my MSDOS floppy |
>>> +----------------------+
>>>
>>> *******
>>>
>>> You can boot WinXP from a USB hard drive - this requires modifications
>>> to BootBusExtenders, to prevent problems with the USB bus disconnecting
>>> in the middle of the boot process. And the resulting hard drive image,
>>> isn't suited for sharing over multiple computers, because of the
>>> Activation issues that would cause.
>>>
>>> http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic116114.html
>>>
>>> You can prepare a WinPE (Preinstall Environment) disc, such as BartPE.
>>> I've used that to run programs, but you have to load the programs
>>> onto the optical disc in a particular way (as it's not a full environment and
>>> has limitations).
>>>
>>> The WinXP CD itself, boots into recovery console, which is a DOS-like
>>> environment suited to doing repair work on the hard drive partition.
>>> But this too, is of limited value for general purpose work. You
>>> couldn't run Word or Excel from there, for example.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>> Paul
Ape wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 15:13:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>> ... D:\i386\winnt.exe
>>
>> Winnt could be the DOS compatible one,
>> while winnt32.exe is probably not DOS worthy.
>
> Yes, but no luck. Needs some system setup to make it go - smartdrv,
> mscdex, micron, etc. In an effort to do that, I now have an
> autoexec,bat file that came from one of the google results I found for
> making a bootable UDB. It contains:
>
> @echo off
> mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R
> set cddrive=R:
> call mouse.bat
>
> I can't interpret what mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R means. Can you
> interpret this line and if and what I need to make it work? Paul?
>
> Should I download micron in some form? I can't find same.
>
> I also have a config.sys file containing:
>
> ;DVD/CD-ROM/R/RW Boot Diskette
> ;created 12-01-98
>
> ;[common]
> lastdrive=z
> device=HIMEM.SYS /testmem:off
> device=emm386.exe noems
> ;device=ramdrive.sys 1024 /e
> dos=high,umb
> files=60
> buffers=30
> stacks=9,256
>
> [Menu]
> menucolor=15,1
> menuitem=SCSI,For systems with an Adaptec UW (SCSI) CD or DVD
> menuitem=LVD,For systems with an Adaptec U2 (LVD) CD or DVD
> menuitem=IDE,For systems with an IDE/Atapi CD or DVD (Default)
> menudefault=IDE,0
> ;set menu default to IDE and by pass menu change "0" to = number of
> seconds
>
> [SCSI]
> devicehigh=cdrom\aspi8dos.sys /d
> devicehigh=cdrom\aspi8cd.sys /d:Micron
> ;set cdrom=Micron
>
> [LVD]
> device=cdrom\ASPI8U2.SYS /d:Micron
> DEVICE=cdrom\ASPICD.SYS /D:Micron
> ;set cdrom=Micron
>
> [IDE]
> devicehigh=cdrom\oakcdrom.sys /d:Micron
> ;set cdrom=Micron
>
> ;[common]
> SET ENDFLAG=1
> ;Flag to denote the end of the config.sys file.
>
> I see 'micron' throughout it also. Maybe you could
> interpret/sanitize/correct this config.sys file for me also?
>
> If not, just say so, and I will struggle on further by myself in this
> wasteland.
>
> Thanks
> ApeMan
This page has "mscdex" information. mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R
The MSCDEX command must include at least one /D switch. To install
additional CD-ROM device drivers, specify an additional /D switch for
each device driver.
/E Specifies that the CD-ROM driver be allowed to use expanded memory, if
available, to store sector buffers.
/K recognize CD-ROM volumes encoded in Kanji
/S Enables sharing of CD-ROM drives on MS-NET
/V Directs MSCDEX to display memory statistics
/L:letter Specifies the drive letter
/M:number Specifies the number of sector buffers.
My "CONFIG.SYS" file has this driver line
DEVICE?=XCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
while my "AUTOEXEC.BAT" file contains
mscdex /D:MSCD001 /L:R
which means the XCDROM driver loads first and "registers" MSCD001.
And then, the autoexec picks up the CDROM via the /D switch in mscdex.
You can make up any identifier you want, as long as the two statements
agree on the value. That's my guess as to how it works. The string
should remain at eight characters or less.
Your "Micron" identifier then, would be defined in CONFIG.SYS,
along with a CDROM driver. The "oakcdrom.sys" probably came with MSDOS.
The XCDROM.SYS I use, I got that off the net a number of years ago.
Do you actually need to put CDROM support in your MSDOS
floppy ? I didn't put it in mine, when installing WinXP.
My set of CDROM drivers, is for other occasions. When the
install started, my i386 folder was staged (already copied over)
on the FAT32 D: partition of my hard drive.
*******
There are different flavors of DOS. MSDOS has many releases,
and my copy for the floppy, came from Windows 98SE by doing a "sys"
command. That gave the three basic files. I'd copy things like oakcdrom.sys
off the Win98SE C: drive. But things like XCDROM.sys came off the network,
and that is third party code. More than one driver is needed, to help handle
a wide range of optical drives (you find out, when you test them).
If you're using FreeDOS, you'd want to check the FreeDOS site, to see
if they support FAT32. I expect they would.
When you get a later release of MSDOS, it has support for FAT32. Perhaps
if you go back far enough, it might be limited to FAT16 or FAT12 etc. You
need FAT32, to be able to handle a decent sized hard drive, for the install.
While they make an NTFS driver for MSDOS, the one I tried didn't support
long file names, and is useless for repair tasks. So if I was to install
WinXP again using the MSDOS floppy method, I'd still be preparing blank
FAT32 partitions for it to use during the installation.
*******
MSDOS has "Extended" and "Expanded" RAM, as well as the memory area
below 640K. If you want to run things like SMARTDRV, like I was
experimenting with, I used 32 megabytes of memory for the cache.
And that cannot come from below 640K, which means my floppy
has to define some kind of Extended or Expanded support. Same
would go for things like RAMDRIVEs. Typically, tools like Seagate
Seatools for DOS, specify a RAMDRIVE, as a container to hold their
uncompressed disk testing program. The RAMDRIVE allows a storage
device larger than a floppy to exist while MSDOS is running
(and without stealing space from any hard drives present).
I don't pretend to know all the nuances of Extended and Expanded.
I just tinkered with my setup, until it started working.
I don't think Extended or Expanded, is used to get those two
lines above, working for a CDROM. If you needed to access a CD,
chances are the driver can live in the 640K space.
I still think a basic MSDOS disk would work, as long as the
version of DOS supports FAT32. It just takes longer, if
you don't have SMARTDRV set up. Without SMARTDRV, it copies
a file every two or three seconds, rather than as fast as the
drive can go. The time is wasted, doing a "dir" over and
over again, and listing the 5000 files in i386 and finding
the one to copy. Something like that. Even SMARTDRV isn't
perfect, and every once in a while, the cache in memory
(32 megabytes worth) seems to get purged - then there is a
delay for a few seconds, while it does a "dir" and sees
all the files again. It can't seem to keep directory information
resident while the system is running.
*******
The MSDOS floppy is not the only way to do this. For example,
if you could find a way to put BartPE on a USB stick, that might
be another way to do it. At the time I installed WinXP, I didn't
even know about BartPE. It's another area you might research - I
don't know for sure whether it would work or not, but it is
another "Preboot Environment". Microsoft also has a six floppy
set, used for booting systems before installing, but that floppy
set probably couldn't easily be converted to a USB stick, and
even if you did, all that floppy set does, is eventually start
reading the install CDROM. I'm not sure you can even use it
to grab files of another kind of hard drive. And in any case,
the six floppy boot set from Microsoft, is only available for
WinXP SP1 or WinXP SP2 installation. When I checked, there was
no six floppy set for SP3, and when I tried the six floppy set for
SP2, it refuses to even take a sniff of my legit WinXP SP3 CD.
So I wouldn't even waste my time now, trying to find that
Microsoft web page again. It would be a waste of time.
*******
I'm using the fact that the "HP Formatter" for USB sticks,
comes with FreeDOS files, as proof that MSDOS can boot
from a USB stick.
*******
On my motherboard, I was getting hangs, until I adjusted
some range to not be used in the 640K space. It took many
reboots to define valid values for "X=" in this line from
CONFIG.SYS. Only my VIA chipset needed this. The Intel
chipset didn't seem to mind as much. I can't even remember
how I narrowed it down to this statement, as breaking things.
Perhaps that's why I put the "?" after each DEVICE call,
so I'd be able to see what line in the file was causing it
to get stuck. I think my floppy light just stayed on, when
it hit this line and bad values were present. Good fun.
I learned a lot, about rebooting... It's boring.
On Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:31:53 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>This page has "mscdex" information. mscdex /d:Micron /m:10 /l:R
>
>http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/
>
> MSCDEX /D:driver [/D:driver2... ] [/E] [/K] [/S] [/V] [/L:letter] [/M:number]
>
> The MSCDEX command must include at least one /D switch. To install
> additional CD-ROM device drivers, specify an additional /D switch for
> each device driver.
>
> /E Specifies that the CD-ROM driver be allowed to use expanded memory, if
> available, to store sector buffers.
>
> /K recognize CD-ROM volumes encoded in Kanji
>
> /S Enables sharing of CD-ROM drives on MS-NET
>
> /V Directs MSCDEX to display memory statistics
>
> /L:letter Specifies the drive letter
>
> /M:number Specifies the number of sector buffers.
>
>My "CONFIG.SYS" file has this driver line
>
> DEVICE?=XCDROM.SYS /D:MSCD001
>
>while my "AUTOEXEC.BAT" file contains
>
> mscdex /D:MSCD001 /L:R
>
>which means the XCDROM driver loads first and "registers" MSCD001.
>And then, the autoexec picks up the CDROM via the /D switch in mscdex.
>You can make up any identifier you want, as long as the two statements
>agree on the value. That's my guess as to how it works. The string
>should remain at eight characters or less.
>
>Your "Micron" identifier then, would be defined in CONFIG.SYS,
>along with a CDROM driver. The "oakcdrom.sys" probably came with MSDOS.
>The XCDROM.SYS I use, I got that off the net a number of years ago.
>
>Do you actually need to put CDROM support in your MSDOS
>floppy ?
I wouldn't think so. I am not using a floppy. Just a USB flash drive
that I am trying to make bootable.
>I didn't put it in mine, when installing WinXP.
>My set of CDROM drivers, is for other occasions. When the
>install started, my i386 folder was staged (already copied over)
>on the FAT32 D: partition of my hard drive.
I already have my i386 folder already copied over onto the USB flash
drive.
>
>*******
>
>There are different flavors of DOS. MSDOS has many releases,
>and my copy for the floppy, came from Windows 98SE by doing a "sys"
>command. That gave the three basic files. I'd copy things like oakcdrom.sys
>off the Win98SE C: drive. But things like XCDROM.sys came off the network,
>and that is third party code. More than one driver is needed, to help handle
>a wide range of optical drives (you find out, when you test them).
>
>If you're using FreeDOS, you'd want to check the FreeDOS site, to see
>if they support FAT32. I expect they would.
>
>When you get a later release of MSDOS, it has support for FAT32. Perhaps
>if you go back far enough, it might be limited to FAT16 or FAT12 etc. You
>need FAT32, to be able to handle a decent sized hard drive, for the install.
>While they make an NTFS driver for MSDOS, the one I tried didn't support
>long file names, and is useless for repair tasks. So if I was to install
>WinXP again using the MSDOS floppy method, I'd still be preparing blank
>FAT32 partitions for it to use during the installation.
Actually, before I copied any autoexec.bat or config.sys file to the
USB flash drive, I first formatted it, and loaded files on it, using
HP USB Disk Storage Format Tool. Then I copied the i386 folder to the
flash drive from the XP install CD. Then I tried a few autoexec.bat
and config.sys files from some old W98 installation floppies that have
from the past. This desktop does NOT have a floppy drive, so I did
this last copy on another desktop that does, then used my LAN to
convey them to this desktop and its flash drive.
Today, I looked, and the flash drive's properties says FAT32.
>
>*******
>
>MSDOS has "Extended" and "Expanded" RAM, as well as the memory area
>below 640K. If you want to run things like SMARTDRV, like I was
>experimenting with, I used 32 megabytes of memory for the cache.
>And that cannot come from below 640K, which means my floppy
>has to define some kind of Extended or Expanded support. Same
>would go for things like RAMDRIVEs. Typically, tools like Seagate
>Seatools for DOS, specify a RAMDRIVE, as a container to hold their
>uncompressed disk testing program. The RAMDRIVE allows a storage
>device larger than a floppy to exist while MSDOS is running
>(and without stealing space from any hard drives present).
>
>I don't pretend to know all the nuances of Extended and Expanded.
>I just tinkered with my setup, until it started working.
>
>I don't think Extended or Expanded, is used to get those two
>lines above, working for a CDROM. If you needed to access a CD,
>chances are the driver can live in the 640K space.
As I said, I don't. At least not until XP is finished being
installed.
>
>I still think a basic MSDOS disk would work, as long as the
>version of DOS supports FAT32. It just takes longer, if
>you don't have SMARTDRV set up. Without SMARTDRV, it copies
>a file every two or three seconds, rather than as fast as the
>drive can go. The time is wasted, doing a "dir" over and
>over again, and listing the 5000 files in i386 and finding
>the one to copy. Something like that. Even SMARTDRV isn't
>perfect, and every once in a while, the cache in memory
>(32 megabytes worth) seems to get purged - then there is a
>delay for a few seconds, while it does a "dir" and sees
>all the files again. It can't seem to keep directory information
>resident while the system is running.
I remember reading on the web of a user who tried all this without
SMARTDRV, and it was unworkably slow, to the point where he finally
quit, because it hung. I guess I still could try not using SMARTDRV.
>
>*******
>
>The MSDOS floppy is not the only way to do this. For example,
>if you could find a way to put BartPE on a USB stick, that might
>be another way to do it. At the time I installed WinXP, I didn't
>even know about BartPE. It's another area you might research - I
>don't know for sure whether it would work or not, but it is
>another "Preboot Environment". Microsoft also has a six floppy
>set, used for booting systems before installing, but that floppy
>set probably couldn't easily be converted to a USB stick, and
>even if you did, all that floppy set does, is eventually start
>reading the install CDROM. I'm not sure you can even use it
>to grab files of another kind of hard drive. And in any case,
>the six floppy boot set from Microsoft, is only available for
>WinXP SP1 or WinXP SP2 installation. When I checked, there was
>no six floppy set for SP3, and when I tried the six floppy set for
>SP2, it refuses to even take a sniff of my legit WinXP SP3 CD.
>So I wouldn't even waste my time now, trying to find that
>Microsoft web page again. It would be a waste of time.
I remember a 6 floppy set somewhere in my past. Without a floppy
drive, I think that would be of no use anyway.
>
>*******
>
>I'm using the fact that the "HP Formatter" for USB sticks,
>comes with FreeDOS files, as proof that MSDOS can boot
>from a USB stick.
>
>*******
>
>On my motherboard, I was getting hangs, until I adjusted
>some range to not be used in the 640K space. It took many
>reboots to define valid values for "X=" in this line from
>CONFIG.SYS. Only my VIA chipset needed this. The Intel
>chipset didn't seem to mind as much. I can't even remember
>how I narrowed it down to this statement, as breaking things.
>Perhaps that's why I put the "?" after each DEVICE call,
>so I'd be able to see what line in the file was causing it
>to get stuck. I think my floppy light just stayed on, when
>it hit this line and bad values were present. Good fun.
>I learned a lot, about rebooting... It's boring.
>
>DEVICE?=EMM386.EXE NOEMS X=A000-CFFF
>
> Paul
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:35:56 -0500, Ape <Tarzan@Plaanet.Edu> wrote:
>Paul -
>
>I decided to try a different route, and used PEBUILDER3110A's PE2USB.
>It did not work for me. The result USB would not boot. It contains:
>
>bartpe.iso
>ntldr
>ntdetect.com
>winnt.slf
>
>
>Does that seem right to you?
>
>The 145MB iso file contains the i386 folder and other folders/files.
>Shouldn't it be decompressed?
>
>Not sure what to try next.
>
>ApeMan
I decompressed the ISO file and copied all of the files/folders to the
USB. Same result - no boot.
Ape wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:35:56 -0500, Ape <Tarzan@Plaanet.Edu> wrote:
>
>> Paul -
>>
>> I decided to try a different route, and used PEBUILDER3110A's PE2USB.
>> It did not work for me. The result USB would not boot. It contains:
>>
>> bartpe.iso
>> ntldr
>> ntdetect.com
>> winnt.slf
>>
>>
>> Does that seem right to you?
>>
>> The 145MB iso file contains the i386 folder and other folders/files.
>> Shouldn't it be decompressed?
>>
>> Not sure what to try next.
>>
>> ApeMan
>
> I decompressed the ISO file and copied all of the files/folders to the
> USB. Same result - no boot.
>
> I am cursed I guess.
>
> ApeMan
I've still been working on your problem. Just a few false starts,
like a tool that claimed to do this "easily", and when I loaded it
into a VM for safety, it said basically "sorry, you need WinXP or later
to run this". And I wasted time setting up an environment to run it
and everything (just not WinXP).
Still, I did have some success a few minutes ago. Basically, using this
method, I was able to get the WinXP installer screen to show up on
my computer. (I didn't actually do the install, but stopped at that
point and did a control-alt-delete to reboot.)
I decided on this method, as my own idea, rather than off some
web site. I was thinking about "what other bootable things do
I have around here", and I remembered the Windows 7 recovery CD.
But rather than start with that, I decided to use a Windows 7 installer
DVD instead. The installer DVD, also has the recovery features of the
smaller recovery CD. The recovery CD, if you download it off the
net (via BitTorrent for example), is around 200MB. On the other hand,
if you download a Microsoft Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD, that comes
from an official download site (digitalriver for example, which is
a company that sells software for download). Then, the download is
around 3GB (sizes listed below). The download links for this purpose,
are open, and not gated by credit cards and the like. Links have been
listed before, but Microsoft tries to have the links deleted, thinking that
somehow this will prevent people from finding them.
I have two images I got, using this method. (These are no good without
a license key, so they're otherwise worthless. But I store things like
this, for reference purposes, taking them apart to see what files are
in there, and so on.) I selected these, to be the closest match to
the software on my laptop. My laptop is actually the x64 install, but
there are reasons to keep the other one, which may become apparent in
a moment. If my laptop drive dies some day, these images along with
the key on the label on the laptop, may allow me to reinstall.
Original name = X17-24209.iso
Name on my hard drive = X17-24209__64-bit Windows 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 (bootable).iso
3,319,478,272 bytes MD5sum = 971843a457b6e0db0af61258cbe7256a
Original name = X17-24208.iso
Name on my hard drive = X17-24208__32-bit Windows 7 Home Premium x86 SP1 (bootable).iso
2,563,039,232 bytes MD5sum = c5bb99b2f1a9e7a5b4fbc6e3eff70882
Now, the other tool, is also part of the software download experience
(credit card software purchase, download only model). This tool
converts the ISO9660 file you download from digitalriver or elsewhere,
into a USB stick.
Now, that is one strange tool, in that it doesn't install in the
Program Files folder. It installs itself in the Documents and Settings tree.
The tool has one downfall. To make the USB stick bootable, it uses
the utility "bootsect.exe" (available on Windows 7 install DVDs or
on a Windows 7 computer). There is a copy of this, inside X17-24208.iso.
I think the tool extracts bootsect.exe when it needs to use the tool,
instead of having a copy of bootsect accompanying the tool download.
This is pretty stupid. The thing is, on my WinXP machine, which is 32 bit,
only a 32 bit version of bootsect.exe is going to run. If I were to
run the "Windows7-USB-DVD-tool" and feed it "X17-24209.iso", step 4
will fail and the USB stick won't be bootable. That's because the
64 bit version of bootsect.exe it extracts, won't run in WinXP (my machine).
This is why, for this experiment, I used the X17-24208.iso file, knowing
the limitations of the Windows7-USB-DVD-tool.exe tool. Both of them
are 32 bit and agree with my 32 bit OS, so the bootsect.exe is successfully
(temporarily) extracted and run. There is nothing particularly magic about
this - if you had a copy of a bootsect from some Windows 7 disc, you could
manually do the bootsect step. The parameters you pass to bootsect,
aren't that tricky.
OK, you run the tool and feed it the X17-24208.iso. It copies the
contents of the ISO, onto the USB stick, then as step 4, it
runs bootsect and finishes the job. The progress bar will be
green in color if it works, or sorta orange if it fails.
Now we have a USB stick that boots. I used my 8GB flash, and I think
the last time I checked, it used about 2.4GB or so of it.
Next step, is to just copy the i386 folder from the WinXP CD, onto
the newly minted USB stick, on the top level.
So this recipe has annoyingly large downloads, but simple execution.
When I'm ready to boot that, I press F8 on my Asus motherboard, to
bring up the BIOS popup boot menu, and in there, I can select the
USB key to boot from.
OK, now you're ready to install WinXP :-)
When you boot the USB stick, it looks like this. Humor it, and
pretend to be installing Windows 7. Click the Next button.
On the next screen, it says "Install Now", but you don't want to do that.
In the lower left hand corner, is a "Repair your computer".
In your case, with no Vista or Win7 OS present, the menu here will be
empty. Don't panic. It takes time for the scan to check for these
OSes, and if you have disks with a lot of files, it can take several
minutes. Click the upper button "Use recovery tools..." when it
lets you.
OK, this is where it pays off. Finally, the recovery menu.
Select "Command Prompt". This looks a lot like MSDOS (hehehe).
But it is not actually the same thing. You'll see how that
makes a slight difference in a moment.
The next window (not shown), is an MSDOS prompt. You'll
be sitting in a current working directory of "X:". I think
that is a ramdisk based partition, with the recovery environment in it.
Now comes the fun part. The i386 folder you copied onto the USB flash,
is not in X: ! It is in some other partition letter. I had to sequentially
try partitions, until I found it, like this.
c:
dir i386
d:
dir i386
...
k:
dir i386
I actually had to go all the way up to the letter k: , before I found
the i386 folder with the WinXP files in it. And that's because my machine
has eight other drive letters on two hard drives. (To aid in your search,
you could dump a file with a name like "PICKME.TXT" into the USB
stick, to make it easier to recognize the correct drive letter to use.
You'd do "dir PICKME.txt" until it found a copy.
Once I found K:, the rest was simple
k:
cd \
cd i386
winnt32.exe
Notice, in this case, we use winnt32.exe instead of winnt.exe.
The winnt.exe is for "true DOS, non 32 bit" environments,
while the winnt32.exe is for 32 bit environments. Apparently
the Windows 7 recovery thing is 32 bit.
Ape wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Feb 2012 03:52:42 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:
>
> \
>> Now, I'm looking at a WinXP installer screen.
>>
>> I stopped at this point and moved on.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Paul
>
> Your reply greeted me this morning. Upon my first read, all I can say
> right now is 'Holy Mackerel Annie!'.
>
> You sure did a lot of work - I appreciate it. I will try to digest
> and apply what you said and did. Thanks.
>
> ApeMan
I did some more testing, and while the WinXP installer screen
comes up OK, things don't work normally after that. I hope
you haven't wasted to much time on this.
What I'm finding, is the USB key is being treated as if it's
an existing OS installation. My WinXP OEM CD is not supposed to
"upgrade" a computer, only "clean install".
I think normally, what would happen, is a $WIN_NT$.~BT and $WIN_NT$.~LS
folders are created on the target partition. One is a boot environment,
and the other has the (copied) install files. When I tried to
use the USB key with the 3GB of stuff on it, one of the folders
went to the target partition, the other ended up on the USB key!
On a reboot, the USB key ends up with an additional boot menu
item (something about "WinXP Setup"). This looked like a positive
thing - I was thinking, if I tried to install from that, that is
very close to what an install CD would do. But if I try that,
I end up stuck in a "loop". The target disk won't boot, and
using the USB key, it does the first stage of installation
again (which I don't want).
*******
One reason I tried this route, is because I could see how the
BartPE idea wasn't going to work out. There would be a
conflict, between the i386 folder BartPE uses, and the i386 folder
we'd need for a WinXP install. They can't be dumped into the same
folder. And to get around that, I'd need to figure out a way to
create a second partition within the BartPE RAMDisk or the like.
And even if I did that, there is also a danger the drive letters
would end up wrong for it to work anyway (sorta like the mess
the method above ends up in).
Microsoft makes tools like "WAIK", and there are several versions
released over the years. The tutorial I saw on this, looked
pretty complicated, and I didn't immediately see how this
tool would result in a usable USB key. But it's a tool that
IT people use.
I've got some more experiments to try, but for the time being,
if you haven't wasted the time getting the DVD image, don't bother.
To me, I don't see how I can whip that thing into shape.
If I have more positive results, I'll post back.
One reason the MSDOS floppy works (i.e. the install I did to get
this machine running), is because it doesn't have a "WINDOWS" folder,
and so the installer doesn't freak out thinking there is already a
version of Windows on the machine. I suspect that's why the USB key
is copying one of the two temp folders, into the wrong partition.
(And in case you're thinking "just move the folder where they need to
go", I'm not convinced the processing of the files in there, completely
properly. The boot loader is looking for HAL.dll for example, and the
only file I can find is HAL.dl_ which is the compressed version of
HAL.dll. So whatever the installer was doing when it exited, it
didn't finish.)
Bootable XP USB? 
Linear Mode
