One thing that held me back for years dealing with my business’s
network of computers were Geeks. I was convinced just by listening to
these Proffessionals that they were worth every penny to keep the
family businesses network of computers up to scratch.(Logistics and
Transport)
It seemed in a two minute conversation I would grasp 50% of the facts
if I was lucky and simply reach for the check book and send them on
their way.
I found out the hard way that the average tech knows all the easy
things but when push comes to shove data recovery is beyond many of
them . The average computer store tends to diagnose a hard drive as no
good, install a new one, install Windows for you and return your
machine.
Now 95% of the time thats proably OK...But the thing that really
cheesed me off were the Geeks that waffled on doing nothing more than
trying to prove to the world how smart they are yet still offering no
solution to the problem. When a hard drive fails theres more important
issues than being told by a Geek he prefers to call the Controller
board a daughter board or logic board. Further when Windows 2000 came
about I was happy because there was less for me to do installing
drivers etc.
I did not care that the true computer nut was staying with Windows 98
and he thought he was big and tough because he could install his own
drivers etc.
The culture seems to be sometimes that some of these IT people don’t
know how to communicate outside of their cocoon. I mean it’s fine to
communicate within your proffession but at the end of the day they
don’t pay the bills. It’s the average Joe that often doesn’t have the
knowledge and the reason he hired the Geek in the first place is to do
the job. If a Geek is not going to communicate and be easily
understood then why have them.
A classic is on forums when the average person posts and the Geeks
ego gets in the way of things. The person with the problem may not be
familiar with technical terms so the obvious thing to do with 99% of
people is relay it in a language everyone can understand.
However, and I don’t think it’s rare at all, some Geeks can’t do what
99% of the population do when it cdomes to communicating.
I’d love to start this thread and have people add to it. I don’t know
if the Geeks will listen , but never say never
"Captin" wrote:
> One thing that held me back for years dealing with my
> business's network of computers were Geeks. I was convinced
> just by listening to these Proffessionals that they were worth
> every penny to keep the family businesses network of computers
> up to scratch.(Logistics and Transport)
> It seemed in a two minute conversation I would grasp 50% of
> the facts if I was lucky and simply reach for the check book
> and send them on their way.
> I found out the hard way that the average tech knows all
> the easy things but when push comes to shove data recovery is
> beyond many of them . The average computer store tends to
> diagnose a hard drive as no good, install a new one, install
> Windows for you and return your machine.
> Now 95% of the time thats proably OK...But the thing that
> really cheesed me off were the Geeks that waffled on doing
> nothing more than trying to prove to the world how smart they
> are yet still offering no solution to the problem. When a hard
> drive fails theres more important issues than being told by a
> Geek he prefers to call the Controller board a daughter board
> or logic board. Further when Windows 2000 came about I was
> happy because there was less for me to do installing drivers
> etc.
> I did not care that the true computer nut was staying with
> Windows 98 and he thought he was big and tough because he
> could install his own drivers etc.
> The culture seems to be sometimes that some of these IT people
> don't know how to communicate outside of their cocoon. I mean
> it's fine to communicate within your proffession but at the
> end of the day they don't pay the bills. It's the average Joe
> that often doesn't have the knowledge and the reason he hired
> the Geek in the first place is to do the job. If a Geek is not
> going to communicate and be easily understood then why have
> them.
> A classic is on forums when the average person posts and the
> Geeks ego gets in the way of things. The person with the
> problem may not be familiar with technical terms so the
> obvious thing to do with 99% of people is relay it in a
> language everyone can understand.
> However, and I don't think it's rare at all, some Geeks can't
> do what 99% of the population do when it cdomes to
> communicating.
>
> I'd love to start this thread and have people add to it. I
> don't know if the Geeks will listen , but never say never
>
> later
> Please Post
I wonder if there is a decent computer technician in many computer
stores anymore. You see more and more students building systems
and as long as things go to plan that’s OK, it’s when theres a
problem
they don’t have the experience to fix things in a hurry. So you do
without your computer for 2 weeks
"thumper" wrote:
> I wonder if there is a decent computer technician in many
> computer
> stores anymore. You see more and more students building
> systems
> and as long as things go to plan that's OK, it's when theres
> a problem
> they don't have the experience to fix things in a hurry. So
> you do
> without your computer for 2 weeks
To use an old adage "The Penny dropped with me years ago"
I was in dire straits with a hard drive and when the Geek arrives
and confirms nothing that I already did not realise.
I asked questions about the drive.......
Things like.
Can you repair the printed circuit of the controller board?
Can I buy a new circuit board on it’s own?
Can I swap the boards if I have two drives the same ?
Do you have a special tool to do without the Controller board?
He installed a new drive into the system and moreless ignored the
questions I asked and simply pushed he me to data recovery with the
drive.
Not going with that a few days later he called back to pickup the
drive because he now had some yes and no answers for me.
Too late, I opted to do it myself, whats the point if he talks like
a million dollars but has no experience?
I fixed that drive and plenty since.
I used the same principal for internal problems
I find many techs/Geeks hand out vague advice about which software to
use to recover data because they have not physically done it
My guess is that most of us have run into snobbish, poor communicating,
secretive, and insensitvie techs in every field, whether it be computers,
car repair, or even household appliances in addition to other fields. It's
not limited to computers by any means.
In addition to being thoughtful of the people they service a customer
might also hope they'd make every effort to be able to explain what the
problem is and the options that are available to fix the situation. Some
customers don't want to know anything. They just want the problem fixed.
Other customers want to know how to fix the problem themselves. They, (the
customer) actually would prefer to be able to fix the problem entirely on
their own. For the good tech, he or she has that line to walk to not only
be able to solve the problem quickly but communicate just the right amount
of information that the customer wants for satisfaction. How often have you
met a tech of that ability? It's at least something to strive for if one
deals with the public on a regular basis. I hear you.
--
Jan Alter bearpuf@verizon.net
or jalter@phila.k12.pa.us
"Captin" <DoNotEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote in message
news:7_309795_b95881ba4a8970d8a8fc758915e41d20@har dwareforumz.com...
> "thumper" wrote:
> > I wonder if there is a decent computer technician in many
> > computer
> > stores anymore. You see more and more students building
> > systems
> > and as long as things go to plan that's OK, it's when theres
> > a problem
> > they don't have the experience to fix things in a hurry. So
> > you do
> > without your computer for 2 weeks
>
> To use an old adage "The Penny dropped with me years ago"
> I was in dire straits with a hard drive and when the Geek arrives
> and confirms nothing that I already did not realise.
> I asked questions about the drive.......
> Things like.
> Can you repair the printed circuit of the controller board?
> Can I buy a new circuit board on it's own?
> Can I swap the boards if I have two drives the same ?
> Do you have a special tool to do without the Controller board?
>
> He installed a new drive into the system and moreless ignored the
> questions I asked and simply pushed he me to data recovery with the
> drive.
> Not going with that a few days later he called back to pickup the
> drive because he now had some yes and no answers for me.
> Too late, I opted to do it myself, whats the point if he talks like
> a million dollars but has no experience?
> I fixed that drive and plenty since.
> I used the same principal for internal problems
> I find many techs/Geeks hand out vague advice about which software to
> use to recover data because they have not physically done it
>
> later
On 31 Aug 2005 18:40:06 -0400, Captin
<UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>One thing that held me back for years dealing with my business’s
>network of computers were Geeks. I was convinced just by listening to
>these Proffessionals that they were worth every penny to keep the
>family businesses network of computers up to scratch.(Logistics and
>Transport)
yes/no/maybe
There are good and bad IT professionals, just like in any
other line of work, and just like any other profession, they
are _people_ who have their own personalities, qualities,
faults, egos, etc, etc, etc.
>It seemed in a two minute conversation I would grasp 50% of the facts
>if I was lucky and simply reach for the check book and send them on
>their way.
> I found out the hard way that the average tech knows all the easy
>things but when push comes to shove data recovery is beyond many of
>them . The average computer store tends to diagnose a hard drive as no
>good, install a new one, install Windows for you and return your
>machine.
Well, if you go to your family doctor with a brain tumor, do
you expect him to pull out a scalpel and remove it right
there or send you to a specialist? Not only are IT pros
having to specialize more and more, the body of knowledge is
continually growing at an alarming rate. If you find a tech
that hesitates at recovering your data, you might be better
off than finding one that "assumes" they can and goes off
half cocked, doing more harm than good which ultimately
prevents anyone else from recovering the data. This can
vary of course, but consider what a computer store employee
does for the most part:
They sell and install parts. Diagnostics are not their
forte and rightly so, as a good diagnostician is worth over
$50 per hour and some problems take hours. How many people
would pay $500 to get a 3 year old (if not older) box up and
running again? Even when data is valuable, many have to
pause and think about whether results-based-fees are
worthwhile for data recovery. Money is always an issue.
>Now 95% of the time thats proably OK...But the thing that really
>cheesed me off were the Geeks that waffled on doing nothing more than
>trying to prove to the world how smart they are yet still offering no
>solution to the problem.
.... has nothing to do with being a geek though, ever watch
TV? It is a national pastime.
>When a hard drive fails theres more important
>issues than being told by a Geek he prefers to call the Controller
>board a daughter board or logic board. Further when Windows 2000 came
>about I was happy because there was less for me to do installing
>drivers etc.
>I did not care that the true computer nut was staying with Windows 98
>and he thought he was big and tough because he could install his own
>drivers etc.
<geek mode on>
A geek would've preferred Win2k AND installed the drivers
themselves. Windows bundled drivers are old bug-ridden
junk. Manufacturers release newer drivers for this very
reason, to be rid of the bugs in the prior versions. MS
also strips some features out of drivers because it aligns
with their questionable agenda, and other times to simple
cut down on the size of the driver files on the CD.
You can go to windowsupdate, and sometimes find newer
drivers... and should, if you have an aversion to
downloading them yourself. However, MS offers the same
drivers as the manufacturers, except they may still lack
some features.
>The culture seems to be sometimes that some of these IT people don’t
>know how to communicate outside of their cocoon. I mean it’s fine to
>communicate within your proffession but at the end of the day they
>don’t pay the bills.
If you went to your doctor and tried to have an intelligent
converstion with her/him about liver enzymes, would it
surprise you that they started using language, terms you
didn't know? Of course there will be a communication
problem.
"They don't pay the bills" is a pointless argument. It is
not their job to educate you. They are there to do a job,
period... just like anyone else. If the job they're doing
requires more communication skills than your present IT guys
have, then by all means let your recruiter know what kind of
qualifications you're looking for, and make issue of such
things in pre-employment interviews. However, good techs
are harder to find than slick talkers so given the choice,
you might need to emphasize ability at IT over communication
skills, may have to weigh what kind of techs you'll get for
any given salary and job position.
What often happens is that an IT pro comes across person
after person after person who has a PC, running windows, who
can press the on botton, click "OK" or "Cancel", and run
some applications that've been around for years- then
suddenly "some" of these people feel they are computer
experts. Indeed, some of them may be qualified for IT work
themselves, but others would be better off forgetting
everything they "think" they know. Of course there are a
lot of users in the middle of these two extremes, and a lot
of techs inbetween too.
I'll probably never forget what one tech told me:
"Windows 98 cannot use over 128MB of memory. I know this
because it was taught at a school that cost $6000".
Education- always nice, sometimes crucial
Experience- trumps education
Scientific methodolgy- trumps both
>It’s the average Joe that often doesn’t have the
>knowledge and the reason he hired the Geek in the first place is to do
>the job. If a Geek is not going to communicate and be easily
>understood then why have them.
Err, how about to do that job? That was what he was hired
for, right?
Who knows, maybe you just have some bad techs, or maybe they
get hounded and try to avoid explaining everything, or maybe
they're backlogged and just avoid spending a lot of time on
non-PC tasks... or maybe they're axe-murderers and just
don't like people. IT folks are as quirky as anybody else.
Who knows, they might think you don't communicate well.
> A classic is on forums when the average person posts and the Geeks
>ego gets in the way of things. The person with the problem may not be
>familiar with technical terms so the obvious thing to do with 99% of
>people is relay it in a language everyone can understand.
1) This is a usenet technical forum. Along with that comes
many conventions that help to keep things working smoothly,
more often than not. Technical terms are useful... is the
whole reason they exist. The person with the problems may
not even know exactly what the problem is and may be
guessing, or may have already gotten bits and pieces of
(mixed accuracy) information already and weeding through it
all can be essential. "Language everyone can understand" is
a nice idea, but put into practice we are dealing with
(almost, at least from a consumer perspective)
state-of-the-art, highly evolving electronic hardware and to
use common terms everyone could understand, would require
everyone have some sort of basic technical vocabulary.
The above is pretty vague, it has to be taken on a
case-by-case basis. There may be reasons for using certain
vocabulary that are not evident to some, are evident to
others, and could be useful. Perhaps an IT guy realizes why
the difference is important and to decribe something on
generic terms is more difficult. It is hard to "unlearn"
what one knows and even harder to guess at what level of
competence someone else may have.
> However, and I don’t think it’s rare at all, some Geeks can’t do what
>99% of the population do when it cdomes to communicating.
>
I think you're exaggerating, but if you're not, then why did
you hire them? Certainly this was semi-apparent during an
interview?
I also think you're assuming they are supposed to be trying
to describe intricate details of things to common people.
That's not their job- that's a _teacher's_ job. If you
find them ineffective at conveying essential information,
then perhaps they need a sit-down and reassessment of the
job priorities. That's at work though, here on the forums
where it's all donated time, anything goes.... you get every
last nickel's worth.
>I’d love to start this thread and have people add to it. I don’t know
>if the Geeks will listen , but never say never
It you just want to vent about speaking a different language
than IT geeks, this probably isn't the right forum for it,
as it IS a technical (albeit general topic) computer
hardware forum. I suppose when grandma calls the entire
system the "CPU", we could just run with it in the
conversation but sooner or later it'd come back problematic.
I don't recall any threads here where a *geek* used
technical language, where someone wrote that they didn't
understand and could anyone elaborate on something, and
there wasn't further elaboration. If you find that
happening, then ask for elaboration or provide some,
whichever applies at the time. It is to be expected that if
someone didn't know a given topic, solution, (whatever),
then of course there will be some new information, possibly
concepts and terms unfamiliar to them... if not, they'd
already "know". That's what learning is.
The ideal tech guy/gal is not one who carries on great
conversations, they're one who you never notice because
they've made your IT experience "invisible", something you
never have to think about. Maybe if you find it necessary
to converse with them a lot then they weren't doing those
technical things as they should've either... or maybe they
spend too much time trying to deal with people who are less
help than they think they are... every situation varies.
In general, you seem to be stereotyping a large group of
people, but ignoring that many non-techs don't have such
great communication skills either. Those who communicate
the most often, on topics with the most common knowledge
between those having the conversation, will of course find
it easier to communicate on those topics.
On 31 Aug 2005 18:40:25 -0400, Captin
<DoNotEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>To use an old adage "The Penny dropped with me years ago"
> I was in dire straits with a hard drive and when the Geek arrives
>and confirms nothing that I already did not realise.
First of all, trying to stereotype as "geeks" is just
showing your ignorance. They're people... some might be
geeks, but I find it a bit backwards, that geeks are more
likely to gravitate towards solitary activities like
computers, than the other way around, that computer techs
can be assumed to be geeks.
> I asked questions about the drive.......
> Things like.
> Can you repair the printed circuit of the controller board?
Perhaps you should just describe the problem and then stop
there. You seem to misunderstand your need to know or have
control. It is not their job to report to you specifically
is it? Are you their boss? If so, fair enough. If not,
you are being unrealistic to expect them to cater to your
questioning.
As for the printed circuit board, they'd have to examine it
first, even IF they were able to source parts and repair it.
If you are their boss and have discussed time allocation
towards component level repair, then you may have a valid
point. If not, you might want to stop asking what they
"can" do and ask them what should be done instead.
> Can I buy a new circuit board on it’s own?
They'd have to check on that. Did you want them to check on
it, or spend hundreds of hours every year checking on
subcomponent availability for every part your company has?
> Can I swap the boards if I have two drives the same ?
Depends on the drive. If they knew the details, they could
explain them to you, but that would require technical
language that you've already expressed having a disliking
for.
> Do you have a special tool to do without the Controller board?
Rightabout now you seem like one of those annoying kids that
just questions everything to the point of being an
interruption to routine tasks. WHY would you need to know
these things?
You should not be trying to repair hard drives in a
corporate environment. If you were supposed to be making
backups, and didn't, perhaps you should be fired. If the IT
tech was supposed to be doing it, and didn't, they should be
fired. You are proposing a scenario that no tech should
have experience with... repairing a drive is what data
recovery centers are for.
>
> He installed a new drive into the system and moreless ignored the
>questions I asked and simply pushed he me to data recovery with the
>drive.
Was he obligated to answer? Communication is a two way
street... does he ask detailed questions about the work you
do everyday? He could be tired of answering the same
questions over and over again too.
If communication is important, why don't you just ASK him?
Ask why you are being ignored. If multiple people are
ignoring you, it might not be them... it might be you... but
ask anyway... maybe they're overworked and just half asleep.
> Not going with that a few days later he called back to pickup the
>drive because he now had some yes and no answers for me.
> Too late, I opted to do it myself, whats the point if he talks like
>a million dollars but has no experience?
LOL, I wouldn't talk to you either if all you did was pester
and whine. Let the professionals do their job. If they're
not doing their job, find someone who can. If you NEED
someone who can repair hard drives, I suggest you hire
somone with that specific skill, not just expecting some
general IT person to do it. Computers are among the most
complex pieces of equipment you will likely ever come across
and thinking your company can afford a team of IT guys who
do board level repairs is probably done in error. That's
why there are specialists, like in any field.
Getting back to the central issue here, if you have a dead
drive and need the drive repaired, the problem is not
whether the IT guy can repair it, the problem is WHY you
need to repair a hard drive.
Set up standard routines for data backup. If you're in a
position to do so, also compile a list of skills your next
hire will have. You get the person you hired, there's no
point lamenting about that later. If you aren't willing to
pay enough, you usually won't get top-notch
employees/service/whatever.
>I fixed that drive and plenty since.
>I used the same principal for internal problems
>I find many techs/Geeks hand out vague advice about which software to
>use to recover data because they have not physically done it
Some may be hesitant to risk others' data, and they should
be. If someone didn't make backups, didn't know the basics
for data recovery yet, and has no idea what software to use,
it is really a good idea to just name a software title that
they can "point-n-click"? Can we even assume such a user is
motivated if they didn't already come up with some
candidates through a Google search? I don't know about you,
but if I find the same question repeatedly posted a dozen
times in a row, I won't write an essay the 5th through 10th
times. That's what search engines are for.
Can it be assumed any particular tech knows about "all"
recovery software? Can we assume any particular person has
a 100% obligation to solve a problem rather than making a
few comments that might be helpful in the larger picture?
You don't seem to be following the normal procedure for
"communication" as you imply is important- normally you
can't forcibly extract information from people in a free
society.
How much experience would you expect handed out for free
from data recovery experts that charge thousands? There are
lots of little issues but you seem to want comprehensive
knowledge about something- and that's why you pay the big
bucks for someone who spends most of their time on that
subtopic... and of course they're going to use terminology
you find uncommunicative, and be less interested in
explaining it all to you than just getting on with their
work.
Sometimes you will find answers to specific questions are
better found directly. For example, if you want to know
which is the best data recovery software, how about Google
searching for "best data recovery software". If you don't
find any fairly recent threads, post a topic titled
something like "Best data recovery software?"... but of
course you would need specify parameters else you might get
suggestions that aren't quite what you "might've" been
looking for, as some software like Encase is rather
expensive and others like Lost & Found was once free but is
more limited in what it can recover.
I made a suggestion previously that I thought was a good
first choice for someone who didn't know what to use-
Ontrack EasyRecovery... but even then, without having the
drive here and trying it, I can't guarantee it'd get the
data... sometimes it's about trial-and-error... but also
knowing what NOT to do, and there's another reason why some
may hesitate to provide information because it's easy to
suggest what to do, but harder to envision all the possible
mistakes someone might make or any other (non-mistake)
things that could go wrong. Generalizing, the idea of "do
no harm" might apply... better the drive just sits there
till a proper solution is figured out rather than jumping
the gun.
"Captin" wrote:
> One thing that held me back for years dealing with my
> business's network of computers were Geeks. I was convinced
> just by listening to these Proffessionals that they were worth
> every penny to keep the family businesses network of computers
> up to scratch.(Logistics and Transport)
> It seemed in a two minute conversation I would grasp 50% of
> the facts if I was lucky and simply reach for the check book
> and send them on their way.
> I found out the hard way that the average tech knows all
> the easy things but when push comes to shove data recovery is
> beyond many of them . The average computer store tends to
> diagnose a hard drive as no good, install a new one, install
> Windows for you and return your machine.
> Now 95% of the time thats proably OK...But the thing that
> really cheesed me off were the Geeks that waffled on doing
> nothing more than trying to prove to the world how smart they
> are yet still offering no solution to the problem. When a hard
> drive fails theres more important issues than being told by a
> Geek he prefers to call the Controller board a daughter board
> or logic board. Further when Windows 2000 came about I was
> happy because there was less for me to do installing drivers
> etc.
> I did not care that the true computer nut was staying with
> Windows 98 and he thought he was big and tough because he
> could install his own drivers etc.
> The culture seems to be sometimes that some of these IT people
> don't know how to communicate outside of their cocoon. I mean
> it's fine to communicate within your proffession but at the
> end of the day they don't pay the bills. It's the average Joe
> that often doesn't have the knowledge and the reason he hired
> the Geek in the first place is to do the job. If a Geek is not
> going to communicate and be easily understood then why have
> them.
> A classic is on forums when the average person posts and the
> Geeks ego gets in the way of things. The person with the
> problem may not be familiar with technical terms so the
> obvious thing to do with 99% of people is relay it in a
> language everyone can understand.
> However, and I don't think it's rare at all, some Geeks can't
> do what 99% of the population do when it cdomes to
> communicating.
>
> I'd love to start this thread and have people add to it. I
> don't know if the Geeks will listen , but never say never
>
> later
> Please Post
I prefer technical people that don’t dribble out of the mouth, do
their job and don’t impose their theories on how we should all live
our lives!
Captin wrote:
> "thumper" wrote:
> > I wonder if there is a decent computer technician in many
> > computer
> > stores anymore. You see more and more students building
> > systems
> > and as long as things go to plan that's OK, it's when theres
> > a problem
> > they don't have the experience to fix things in a hurry. So
> > you do
> > without your computer for 2 weeks
>
> To use an old adage "The Penny dropped with me years ago"
> I was in dire straits with a hard drive and when the Geek arrives
> and confirms nothing that I already did not realise.
> I asked questions about the drive.......
> Things like.
> Can you repair the printed circuit of the controller board?
> Can I buy a new circuit board on it's own?
> Can I swap the boards if I have two drives the same ?
> Do you have a special tool to do without the Controller board?
>
> He installed a new drive into the system and moreless ignored the
> questions I asked and simply pushed he me to data recovery with the
> drive.
> Not going with that a few days later he called back to pickup the
> drive because he now had some yes and no answers for me.
> Too late, I opted to do it myself, whats the point if he talks like
> a million dollars but has no experience?
> I fixed that drive and plenty since.
> I used the same principal for internal problems
> I find many techs/Geeks hand out vague advice about which software to
> use to recover data because they have not physically done it
>
> later
what do you expect, An electronic engineer? You don't get an
electronics background like you have, in a computer school, or reading
computer books.
electronics is a more geeky subject than computers. It's the holy
grail, since computesr are based on it. But a comptuer geek using a
multimeter on a power supply is really at the forefront of being a
computer technician, he is the best he can be given the subject! What
is basic to somebody that has studied electronics, is well beyond any
computer tech book or school. And computer techs shouldn't be expected
to know what they can't read in any computerbook, or haven't
experienced.
You can flick through Scott Mueller's whole "Upgrading and repairing
PCs" book - over 1000 pages. And the msot electronic it gets is giving
voltages so you can test them with a multimeter.
Troubleshooting is monkey work. And you know what. The stuff you're
talking about is monkey work too but for people with an electronics
background. Just replace the faulty board. don't look for a dead
capacitor, just change the board! Electricians call changing the
board, 'monkey work'. and it's what they have to do nowadays, hey don't
seaserch out for dead capacitors anymore.
I wish it was more of a science. I wish fixing computers wasn't such a
brainless activity. But even doing an excellent job of fixing computers
is not rocket science and involves no electronics work.
Most people don't have the philosophical and communication skills to
explain to you that that is not what their job entails. If you were to
ask me those qusetions, I would have told you straight out, that IT
Techs change the drive, and don't touch electronics, it's well outside
the scope of the subject and thus the job. Furthermore, the subject/job
turned out like this because drives nowadays are relatively cheap.
I wouldn't say you were telling me how to do my job. If you had the
ability to change the faulty board and you wanted to do that. I'd tell
you I can't help you with that, I'd tell you what I can do - put in an
ew drive for you. And you decide what you want to do. It's your money.
The Comp Tech tells you the alternatives, if the alternatives come at a
different cost. they do of course suggest what is best. And changing
HDDs does work when you have a broken HDD!
Regarding data recovery, a computer tech should be able to rattle off
at least one name of a piece of software that'd do it. R-Studio comes
to mind. then company names that might make the software, ilke Norton
and OnTrack.
There is a problem though of catching a tech off guard. Tell them in
advance and they can check google or some reference.
i think you're an asshole who has nothing better to do than stereotype
people as "geeks"
read what kony has to say... be enlightned, that guy has experience.
your post is flaimbait, pointless, stupid etc..
no one cares about you whining about a techie who doesn't have the
ability to repair a broken harddrive, even if the guy had the knoledge
and ability to do it he wouldn't be able to, harddrives are delicate
devices.. you need to be in a special environment to service them.
i think the best any techie could do is replace the harddrive or if
you're not satisfied you'd go to a specialist and pay 10x + the cost of
a new drive to recover your precious data. you need to ask yourself how
badly do you want the data recovered, not if the techie can do board
repairs.
Captin wrote:
> One thing that held me back for years dealing with my business's
> network of computers were Geeks. I was convinced just by listening to
> these Proffessionals that they were worth every penny to keep the
> family businesses network of computers up to scratch.(Logistics and
> Transport)
> It seemed in a two minute conversation I would grasp 50% of the facts
> if I was lucky and simply reach for the check book and send them on
> their way.
> I found out the hard way that the average tech knows all the easy
> things but when push comes to shove data recovery is beyond many of
> them . The average computer store tends to diagnose a hard drive as no
> good, install a new one, install Windows for you and return your
> machine.
> Now 95% of the time thats proably OK...But the thing that really
> cheesed me off were the Geeks that waffled on doing nothing more than
> trying to prove to the world how smart they are yet still offering no
> solution to the problem. When a hard drive fails theres more important
> issues than being told by a Geek he prefers to call the Controller
> board a daughter board or logic board. Further when Windows 2000 came
> about I was happy because there was less for me to do installing
> drivers etc.
> I did not care that the true computer nut was staying with Windows 98
> and he thought he was big and tough because he could install his own
> drivers etc.
> The culture seems to be sometimes that some of these IT people don't
> know how to communicate outside of their cocoon. I mean it's fine to
> communicate within your proffession but at the end of the day they
> don't pay the bills. It's the average Joe that often doesn't have the
> knowledge and the reason he hired the Geek in the first place is to do
> the job. If a Geek is not going to communicate and be easily
> understood then why have them.
> A classic is on forums when the average person posts and the Geeks
> ego gets in the way of things. The person with the problem may not be
> familiar with technical terms so the obvious thing to do with 99% of
> people is relay it in a language everyone can understand.
> However, and I don't think it's rare at all, some Geeks can't do what
> 99% of the population do when it cdomes to communicating.
>
> I'd love to start this thread and have people add to it. I don't know
> if the Geeks will listen , but never say never
>
> later
> Please Post
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www.hardwareforumz.com interface, at author's request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/Genera...pict61366.html
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/eform.php?p=309749
"thumper" wrote:
> I prefer technical people that don't dribble out of the mouth,
> do their job and don't impose their theories on how we should
> all live our lives!
I will keep in mind in future that people with a $6000 course behind
them are on the same plane as medical surgeons. Funny how I could
understand what my GP and surgeon had to say with my lasty leg
operation but I can’t understand how Windows 2000 is better for techs
to
run technical applications.
You said what I was thinking about data recovery issues. It’s no
time to play around if a persons not capable basicly.The beauty of
forums is no matter how weird the challenge, theres usually someone
that can say
"I’ve been there and done that and this is how I did it" Hopefully
if the source is genuine it can take some of the guess work out of it
for yourself
I don’t even reply to people unless I can say that to myself first.
I will not answer Posts for the sake of answering posts
On 2 Sep 2005 01:40:19 -0400, Captin
<DoNotEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
> You said what I was thinking about data recovery issues. It’s no
>time to play around if a persons not capable basicly.The beauty of
>forums is no matter how weird the challenge, theres usually someone
>that can say
>"I’ve been there and done that and this is how I did it"
That would be oversimplified, not the ideal it seems on the
surface because "usually" when there is a data recovery
need, all that can be determined beforehand is that the data
isn't accessible in the normal way it used to be, but WHY it
isn't, can vary, and so can the necessary steps to regain
that access.
Different problems can have the same result, and using a
tool to combat the result instead of the problem isn't
always effective. If someone wrote that they deleted a file
or was infected by a certain virus, it might be clearer what
needs to be done. If they wrote that the drive simply
doesn't work right and they need the data, the time and
tools to do it will be a fair expense regardless of whether
that data is recoverable or not. Most often in this groups
we get posts about drives failing, not some user mistake,
and there is no data recovery software alone that makes a
damaged drive whole again.
"kony" wrote:
>On 2 Sep 2005 01:40:19 -0400, Captin
><DoNotEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>
>
>> You said what I was thinking about data recovery issues. It’s no
>>time to play around if a persons not capable basicly.The beauty of
>>forums is no matter how weird the challenge, theres usually
>someone
>>that can say
>>"I’ve been there and done that and this is how I did it"
>
>That would be oversimplified, not the ideal it seems on the
>surface because "usually" when there is a data recovery
>need, all that can be determined beforehand is that the data
>isn’t accessible in the normal way it used to be, but WHY it
>isn’t, can vary, and so can the necessary steps to regain
>that access.
>
>Different problems can have the same result, and using a
>tool to combat the result instead of the problem isn’t
>always effective. If someone wrote that they deleted a file
>or was infected by a certain virus, it might be clearer what
>needs to be done. If they wrote that the drive simply
>doesn’t work right and they need the data, the time and
>tools to do it will be a fair expense regardless of whether
>that data is recoverable or not. Most often in this groups
>we get posts about drives failing, not some user mistake,
>and there is no data recovery software alone that makes a
>damaged drive whole again.
How much data recovery did you say you have done exactly?(JOKIN)
I’d like to step back to what many refer too as "general hard drive
failure"
There are two sub categories if you like for general hard drive
failure ..
One is either no power or the short circuiting of power.
Call me slow but I usually check this out first because without it
even my brother who is a software junky is going nowhere if the drive
is installed inside a PC without it.I would say that almost 50% of
general failures belong here and the easy answer is to replace the
controller board even if it is tempory to regain your data.
It was posted that it is "Monkeys Work" to replace a board and I
couldn’t have said it better myself and don’t see why people would
suggest we need to pay $50 an hour to have that done if the average
Joe can jump on a forum, get a few tips which make it easy for him.
Maybe I will start a thread about controller boards?
"Captin" wrote:
>[quote:48df802122="kony"]On 2 Sep 2005 01:40:19 -0400, Captin
><DoNotEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>
>
>> You said what I was thinking about data recovery issues. It’s no
>>time to play around if a persons not capable basicly.The beauty of
>>forums is no matter how weird the challenge, theres usually
>someone
>>that can say
>>"I’ve been there and done that and this is how I did it"
>
>That would be oversimplified, not the ideal it seems on the
>surface because "usually" when there is a data recovery
>need, all that can be determined beforehand is that the data
>isn’t accessible in the normal way it used to be, but WHY it
>isn’t, can vary, and so can the necessary steps to regain
>that access.
>
>Different problems can have the same result, and using a
>tool to combat the result instead of the problem isn’t
>always effective. If someone wrote that they deleted a file
>or was infected by a certain virus, it might be clearer what
>needs to be done. If they wrote that the drive simply
>doesn’t work right and they need the data, the time and
>tools to do it will be a fair expense regardless of whether
>that data is recoverable or not. Most often in this groups
>we get posts about drives failing, not some user mistake,
>and there is no data recovery software alone that makes a
>damaged drive whole again.
How much data recovery did you say you have done exactly?(JOKIN)
I’d like to step back to what many refer too as "general hard drive
failure"
There are two sub categories if you like for general hard drive
failure ..
One is either no power or the short circuiting of power.
Call me slow but I usually check this out first because without it
even my brother who is a software junky is going nowhere if the drive
is installed inside a PC without it.I would say that almost 50% of
general failures belong here and the easy answer is to replace the
controller board even if it is tempory to regain your data.
It was posted that it is "Monkeys Work" to replace a board and I
couldn’t have said it better myself and don’t see why people would
suggest we need to pay $50 an hour to have that done if the average
Joe can jump on a forum, get a few tips which make it easy for him.
Maybe I will start a thread about controller
boards?[/quote:48df802122]
Data recovery people often buy hard drives with internal damage to
use the controller boards when they need them.They keep a library of
them. If the job is important, even the purchase price of another new
drive is insignificant especially when you are able to reinstall the
board
and have a good drive as surplus anyway.
Captin wrote:
> "kony" wrote:
> >On 2 Sep 2005 01:40:19 -0400, Captin
> ><DoNotEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> You said what I was thinking about data recovery issues. It's no
> >>time to play around if a persons not capable basicly.The beauty of
> >>forums is no matter how weird the challenge, theres usually
> >someone
> >>that can say
> >>"I've been there and done that and this is how I did it"
> >
> >That would be oversimplified, not the ideal it seems on the
> >surface because "usually" when there is a data recovery
> >need, all that can be determined beforehand is that the data
> >isn't accessible in the normal way it used to be, but WHY it
> >isn't, can vary, and so can the necessary steps to regain
> >that access.
> >
> >Different problems can have the same result, and using a
> >tool to combat the result instead of the problem isn't
> >always effective. If someone wrote that they deleted a file
> >or was infected by a certain virus, it might be clearer what
> >needs to be done. If they wrote that the drive simply
> >doesn't work right and they need the data, the time and
> >tools to do it will be a fair expense regardless of whether
> >that data is recoverable or not. Most often in this groups
> >we get posts about drives failing, not some user mistake,
> >and there is no data recovery software alone that makes a
> >damaged drive whole again.
> How much data recovery did you say you have done exactly?(JOKIN)
> I'd like to step back to what many refer too as "general hard drive
> failure"
>
> There are two sub categories if you like for general hard drive
> failure ..
>
> One is either no power or the short circuiting of power.
> Call me slow but I usually check this out first because without it
> even my brother who is a software junky is going nowhere if the drive
> is installed inside a PC without it.I would say that almost 50% of
> general failures belong here and the easy answer is to replace the
> controller board even if it is tempory to regain your data.
> It was posted that it is "Monkeys Work" to replace a board and I
> couldn't have said it better myself and don't see why people would
> suggest we need to pay $50 an hour to have that done if the average
> Joe can jump on a forum, get a few tips which make it easy for him.
> Maybe I will start a thread about controller boards?
>
> --
Even with monkey work, the monkey still needs to be trained. If you're
willing to spend the time, then I think it'd be great if you put some
of that knowledge online. Usenet isn't a good medium for that though.
Usenet is a good medium for debate, and usenet (at least when accessed
from the google archive) has no graphics or changes of font sizes.
Best way is a either a webpage, 'cos you can put graphics in there. Or
a Word Document - graphics can go there too.
Even if ther's no web or ftp server available to host the file, - and
you dont' have a computer free to use as a web or ftp server . (if you
have a comp free then it's very quick to set up) Then you can start by
just emailing the file to ppl in the newsgroup that are interested.
I'm sure somebody'll host it. There's a gap of knowledge that needs or
would like to be filled.
There are lots of sites that explain how to change a Hard drive. But no
sites I know of that tell you how to change the board of a faulty HDD.
(Even just for fun, with a high risk of breaking the drive!) I had
heard that if a smoke particle gets between the 'needle'(head?) and a
round thing(platter?) then it can cause damage.
So if the data was important, i'd be wary of even opening it up. But
it'd be fun experimenting at least, i'd start with low capacity drive
whose data isn't important.
I'm sure a lot of techies would enjoy that. Remmeber. It may be
monkey work. But the monkey gotta be trained!!!
It'd be interesting to nkow where you learnt your skill (changing
boards within a HDD). #cos an EE or even an ECE degree is 3 years! ANd
to be an electrician requires quite a bit of training too.
I call changing drives monkey work because of the form of diagnosis,
the logic of troubleshooting is monkey logic. Swapping things in and
out. In a conversation with an electrician, he said that they
don't diagnose boards for hours anymore with tools, finding faulty
capacitors. They change the board, he said it was monkey work. I saw a
parallel. He agreed.
On 5 Sep 2005 14:42:17 -0400, Captin
<UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>There are two sub categories if you like for general hard drive
>failure ..
.... or we can call it 1: can't get data
.... or we can further sub-divide or distinguish them
differently.
>
>One is either no power or the short circuiting of power.
Not necessarily, it isn't really so useful to generalize
along a tangent like this but if you want to lump everything
into a generalized "circuit board problem" category, that
could be considered reasonable towards the end of replacing
the circuit board.
>Call me slow but I usually check this out first because without it
>even my brother who is a software junky is going nowhere if the drive
>is installed inside a PC without it.
How do you "check it"?
>I would say that almost 50% of
>general failures belong here and the easy answer is to replace the
>controller board even if it is tempory to regain your data.
50% seems a rather arbitrary presumption, but even so, sure
if you have a bad board and replace it with a viable board-
replacing a bad subcomponent with a working one is an
age-old practice.
> It was posted that it is "Monkeys Work" to replace a board and I
>couldn’t have said it better myself and don’t see why people would
>suggest we need to pay $50 an hour to have that done if the average
>Joe can jump on a forum, get a few tips which make it easy for him.
>Maybe I will start a thread about controller boards?
You claim "monkeys work", but then that you need more
information. Threfore, you have classified yourself as
having lower skill than a monkey for this task and
therefore, for this task you should hire a "monkey" to do
it.
What task doesn't seem like mere monkey's work if you only
consider the easiest/obvious parts and then decide all you
need is all the rest- the parts that aren't so easy or
obvious? What profession doesn't have "easy parts"
intermixed with the actual details, skills needed to get
that job done? Certainly it's not rocket science to swap a
drive's circuit board, but then rocket science must also
have mundane issues as well as that part about "rockets".
Sure, you can do almost anything if you pay attention to
detail, if the information is available and you spend the
extra time. If any of these factors are missing, you may
have less satisfactory results and hopefully instead of
doing something outside of your own profession, you could
simply spend the time doing something you ARE skilled at,
leaving those things you aren't, to someone who IS skilled
at them.
Where does it end? I'll bet most of the work you do every
day is "monkeys work" except for those parts that aren't!
So why would anyone pay you to do that work if they can get
someone who doesn't know how, to do it cheaper? After all
that other somone only needs the skills they don't have that
you do, right? Clearly we should just do away with all
professions and be jacks-of-all-trades? No, in general that
would result in a lower quality of life and specific to HDD
data, your best course is to find a professional and pay for
not only their obvious actions but the experience they have
in dealing with the not-as-obvious details. However, when I
write "professional" I don't mean a general purpose computer
technican.
That is, IF the data is actually valuable, which I contend
it was not else you'd have backed it up already, this would
be an implausable scenario to begin with, except if we
consider someone thinking backups are "monkeys work" and
that they know better. Apparently some things are best left
to professionals.
"" wrote:
> Captin wrote:
> > "kony" wrote:
> > >On 2 Sep 2005 01:40:19 -0400, Captin
> > ><DoNotEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> You said what I was thinking about data recovery issues.
> It's no
> > >>time to play around if a persons not capable basicly.The
> beauty of
> > >>forums is no matter how weird the challenge, theres
> usually
> > >someone
> > >>that can say
> > >>"I've been there and done that and this is how I did it"
> > >
> > >That would be oversimplified, not the ideal it seems on the
> > >surface because "usually" when there is a data recovery
> > >need, all that can be determined beforehand is that the
> data
> > >isn't accessible in the normal way it used to be, but WHY
> it
> > >isn't, can vary, and so can the necessary steps to regain
> > >that access.
> > >
> > >Different problems can have the same result, and using a
> > >tool to combat the result instead of the problem isn't
> > >always effective. If someone wrote that they deleted a
> file
> > >or was infected by a certain virus, it might be clearer
> what
> > >needs to be done. If they wrote that the drive simply
> > >doesn't work right and they need the data, the time and
> > >tools to do it will be a fair expense regardless of whether
> > >that data is recoverable or not. Most often in this groups
> > >we get posts about drives failing, not some user mistake,
> > >and there is no data recovery software alone that makes a
> > >damaged drive whole again.
> > How much data recovery did you say you have done
> exactly?(JOKIN)
> > I'd like to step back to what many refer too as "general
> hard drive
> > failure"
> >
> > There are two sub categories if you like for general hard
> drive
> > failure ..
> >
> > One is either no power or the short circuiting of power.
> > Call me slow but I usually check this out first because
> without it
> > even my brother who is a software junky is going nowhere if
> the drive
> > is installed inside a PC without it.I would say that almost
> 50% of
> > general failures belong here and the easy answer is to
> replace the
> > controller board even if it is tempory to regain your data.
> > It was posted that it is "Monkeys Work" to replace a board
> and I
> > couldn't have said it better myself and don't see why people
> would
> > suggest we need to pay $50 an hour to have that done if the
> average
> > Joe can jump on a forum, get a few tips which make it easy
> for him.
> > Maybe I will start a thread about controller boards?
> >
> > --
>
> Even with monkey work, the monkey still needs to be trained.
> If you're
> willing to spend the time, then I think it'd be great if you
> put some
> of that knowledge online. Usenet isn't a good medium for that
> though.
> Usenet is a good medium for debate, and usenet (at least when
> accessed
> from the google archive) has no graphics or changes of font
> sizes.
>
> Best way is a either a webpage, 'cos you can put graphics in
> there. Or
> a Word Document - graphics can go there too.
> Even if ther's no web or ftp server available to host the
> file, - and
> you dont' have a computer free to use as a web or ftp server .
> (if you
> have a comp free then it's very quick to set up) Then you can
> start by
> just emailing the file to ppl in the newsgroup that are
> interested.
> I'm sure somebody'll host it. There's a gap of knowledge that
> needs or
> would like to be filled.
>
> There are lots of sites that explain how to change a Hard
> drive. But no
> sites I know of that tell you how to change the board of a
> faulty HDD.
> (Even just for fun, with a high risk of breaking the drive!)
> I had
> heard that if a smoke particle gets between the
> 'needle'(head?) and a
> round thing(platter?) then it can cause damage.
> So if the data was important, i'd be wary of even opening it
> up. But
> it'd be fun experimenting at least, i'd start with low
> capacity drive
> whose data isn't important.
>
> I'm sure a lot of techies would enjoy that. Remmeber. It may
> be
> monkey work. But the monkey gotta be trained!!!
>
> It'd be interesting to nkow where you learnt your skill
> (changing
> boards within a HDD). #cos an EE or even an ECE degree is 3
> years! ANd
> to be an electrician requires quite a bit of training too.
>
> I call changing drives monkey work because of the form of
> diagnosis,
> the logic of troubleshooting is monkey logic. Swapping things
> in and
> out. In a conversation with an electrician, he said
> that they
> don't diagnose boards for hours anymore with tools, finding
> faulty
> capacitors. They change the board, he said it was monkey work.
> I saw a
> parallel. He agreed.
First of all I would like to say I don’t mind abit of "Tongue in
cheek"
> >> You said what I was thinking about data recovery issues. It’s no
> >>time to play around if a persons not capable basicly.The beauty of
> >>forums is no matter how weird the challenge, theres usually
> >someone
> >>that can say
> >>"I’ve been there and done that and this is how I did it"
> >
> >That would be oversimplified, not the ideal it seems on the
> >surface because "usually" when there is a data recovery
> >need, all that can be determined beforehand is that the data
> >isn’t accessible in the normal way it used to be, but WHY it
> >isn’t, can vary, and so can the necessary steps to regain
> >that access.
Most people are capable to determine whether a hard drive is
receiving power or not.If you don’t know yourself why don’t you ask
people rather than state how much training is needed to work it out?
There are some very basic steps. Hey even without a multimeter
> >Different problems can have the same result, and using a
> >tool to combat the result instead of the problem isn’t
> >always effective. If someone wrote that they deleted a file
> >or was infected by a certain virus, it might be clearer what
> >needs to be done. If they wrote that the drive simply
> >doesn’t work right and they need the data, the time and
> >tools to do it will be a fair expense regardless of whether
> >that data is recoverable or not. Most often in this groups
> >we get posts about drives failing, not some user mistake,
> >and there is no data recovery software alone that makes a
> >damaged drive whole again.
I expect some help from Kony and yourself when I come crying about
software. That’s clear up a few things and have a look at whats at
risk replacing a controller board.
1: If I attempt to exchange a controller board will I lose what data
is on the drive anyway?
Answer: No
2: If I exchange a controller board even though I am not 100% certain
it is in fact the problem will it create any other problems?
Answer: No infact even Pro’s try the easy way first and if the
symptoms
could be caused for several reasons then it is not silly if you can
rule some of the possibilities out you are one step closer.
3: Is it expensive to replace a controller board?
Answer: That will depend on the person.
At worst you will pay the price for a new drive as a donor usually for
a tempory loan of it’s controller board.
4: Can I be electrocuted doing this?
Answer: You would be the first one.Please give me your full name and
address so we can make a cartoon character out of you if it happens.
5: If it is as easy as you make out why don’t more people seem
familiar with it?
Answer:
Broadly speaking drives are reasonably reliable.
If the data is important most people have a backup anyway.
New drives are so cheap etc etc
> How much data recovery did you say you have done exactly?(JOKIN)
> I’d like to step back to what many refer too as "general hard drive
> failure"
>
> There are two sub categories if you like for general hard drive
> failure ..
>
> One is either no power or the short circuiting of power.
> Call me slow but I usually check this out first because without it
> even my brother who is a software junky is going nowhere if the
drive
> is installed inside a PC without it.I would say that almost 50% of
> general failures belong here and the easy answer is to replace the
> controller board even if it is tempory to regain your data.
> It was posted that it is "Monkeys Work" to replace a board and I
> couldn’t have said it better myself and don’t see why people would
> suggest we need to pay $50 an hour to have that done if the average
> Joe can jump on a forum, get a few tips which make it easy for him.
> Maybe I will start a thread about controller boards?
>
> --
Even with monkey work, the monkey still needs to be trained. If
you’re
willing to spend the time, then I think it’d be great if you put some
of that knowledge online. Usenet isn’t a good medium for that though.
Usenet is a good medium for debate, and usenet (at least when accessed
from the google archive) has no graphics or changes of font sizes.
I just hope you are as smart as my 15 year old nephew. I managed to
run through it with him over the phone while it was happening. I know
software people can still be dumb in some ways but I don’t believe you
are dumb
Best way is a either a webpage, ’cos you can put graphics in there.
Or
a Word Document - graphics can go there too.
Even if ther’s no web or ftp server available to host the file, - and
you dont’ have a computer free to use as a web or ftp server . (if you
have a comp free then it’s very quick to set up) Then you can start
by
just emailing the file to ppl in the newsgroup that are interested.
I’m sure somebody’ll host it. There’s a gap of knowledge that needs or
would like to be filled.
There are lots of sites that explain how to change a Hard drive. But
no
sites I know of that tell you how to change the board of a faulty HDD.
(Even just for fun, with a high risk of breaking the drive!) I had
heard that if a smoke particle gets between the ’needle’(head?) and a
round thing(platter?) then it can cause damage.
So if the data was important, i’d be wary of even opening it up. But
it’d be fun experimenting at least, i’d start with low capacity drive
whose data isn’t important.
I’m sure a lot of techies would enjoy that. Remmeber. It may be
monkey work. But the monkey gotta be trained!!!
It’d be interesting to nkow where you learnt your skill (changing
boards within a HDD). #cos an EE or even an ECE degree is 3 years!
ANd
to be an electrician requires quite a bit of training too.
I call changing drives monkey work because of the form of diagnosis,
the logic of troubleshooting is monkey logic. Swapping things in and
out. In a conversation with an electrician, he said that they
don’t diagnose boards for hours anymore with tools, finding faulty
capacitors. They change the board, he said it was monkey work. I saw a
parallel. He agreed.
"kony" wrote:
>On 5 Sep 2005 14:42:17 -0400, Captin
><UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:
>
>
>>There are two sub categories if you like for general hard drive
>>failure ..
>
>.... or we can call it 1: can’t get data
>.... or we can further sub-divide or distinguish them
>differently.
>
>>
>>One is either no power or the short circuiting of power.
>
>Not necessarily, it isn’t really so useful to generalize
>along a tangent like this but if you want to lump everything
>into a generalized "circuit board problem" category, that
>could be considered reasonable towards the end of replacing
>the circuit board.
>
> Kony, nobody worries to repair controller boards that I know of.
Even
>if it is possible it’s not worth spending hours on it anyway.
>Therefore it becomes immaterial what the exact fault with a board is.
>You could actually spend hours sometimes trying to work out the exact
>fault and still not know. It’s a printed circuit , if it’s
>faulty and it’s cheap throw it away.
>
>>Call me slow but I usually check this out first because without it
>>even my brother who is a software junky is going nowhere if the
>drive
>>is installed inside a PC without it.
>
>How do you "check it"?
>
>>I would say that almost 50% of
>>general failures belong here and the easy answer is to replace the
>>controller board even if it is tempory to regain your data.
>
>50% seems a rather arbitrary presumption, but even so, sure
>if you have a bad board and replace it with a viable board-
>replacing a bad subcomponent with a working one is an
>age-old practice
>I’m happy that at least you can see a little logic with
>replacing a controller board.You are not cheating anyone to use the
>age old practice of exchange. Anything to cut out needing a software
>genius I say
>
>
>> It was posted that it is "Monkeys Work" to replace a board and I
>>couldn’t have said it better myself and don’t see why people would
>>suggest we need to pay an hour to have that done if the
>average
>>Joe can jump on a forum, get a few tips which make it easy for
>him.
>>Maybe I will start a thread about controller boards?
>
>You claim "monkeys work", but then that you need more
>information. Threfore, you have classified yourself as
>having lower skill than a monkey for this task and
>therefore, for this task you should hire a "monkey" to do
>it.
> Kony, you are the person to diagnose drives as I think you called it
>" General failure". That’s fine 95% of the time. Simply install
>a new drive and move on. You said yourself that’s all your
>trained to do?
>
>What task doesn’t seem like mere monkey’s work if you only
>consider the easiest/obvious parts and then decide all you
>need is all the rest- the parts that aren’t so easy or
>obvious? What profession doesn’t have "easy parts"
>intermixed with the actual details, skills needed to get
>that job done? Certainly it’s not rocket science to swap a
>drive’s circuit board, but then rocket science must also
>have mundane issues as well as that part about "rockets".
>
>Sure, you can do almost anything if you pay attention to
>detail, if the information is available and you spend the
>extra time. If any of these factors are missing, you may
>have less satisfactory results and hopefully instead of
>doing something outside of your own profession, you could
>simply spend the time doing something you ARE skilled at,
>leaving those things you aren’t, to someone who IS skilled
>at them.
>
> I think many people cannot afford to pay for data recovery or their
>data is not that important.
> If you are talking to someone that cannot afford data recovery but
>their photo’s are very important then the person themselves
>might consider giving it a go themselves. I notice this forum has
>thousands of postings regarding hard drives? Lot’s that end up
>in a dead end
>
>Where does it end? I’ll bet most of the work you do every
>day is "monkeys work" except for those parts that aren’t!
>So why would anyone pay you to do that work if they can get
>someone who doesn’t know how, to do it cheaper? After all
>that other somone only needs the skills they don’t have that
>you do, right? Clearly we should just do away with all
>professions and be jacks-of-all-trades? No, in general that
>would result in a lower quality of life and specific to HDD
>data, your best course is to find a professional and pay for
>not only their obvious actions but the experience they have
>in dealing with the not-as-obvious details. However, when I
>write "professional" I don’t mean a general purpose computer
>technican.
>Business’s supply about 95% of work for data recovery people.
>Clearly the cost involved for many people is what rules it out.
>I think sometimes the internal failure of a drive gets much more down
>the Pro’s when drives are dismantled and reassembled in air
>tight rooms.
>
>That is, IF the data is actually valuable, which I contend
>it was not else you’d have backed it up already, this would
>be an implausable scenario to begin with, except if we
>consider someone thinking backups are "monkeys work" and
>that they know better. Apparently some things are best left
>to professionals.
Of course it depends on how valuable the data is. If you have a person
with many tears of family photos and can’t afford the Pro’s are you
suggesting they don’t try anything. I mean Pros’ start at around $500
Oh and guess what. They do not guarantee anything
Can IT people communicate with the rest 