A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for CD's and
DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I have some Avery
labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
"Dave C." wrote:
>
> A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for CD's and
> DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I have some Avery
> labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
>
> What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
It is recommended that you don't use labels because they can cause vibrations especially with newer drives that can spin at 10,000 RPM. I have several disks with labels that were applied perfectly centered and they don't shake.
> Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
I have been using sharpies for eight years and have never had any trouble with them.
I understand. It is a matter of the vibration of labels that might be
slightly off centered rather than the adhesive chemistry effect. That makes
good sense. I do have a fixture that applies the labels, hopefully
centered, but for critical things, I'll continue to use sharpies.....just
checking.
Thanks,
Dave C.
"Mike Walsh" <spamscks@netrox.net> wrote in message
news:45284AE9.A42EE5D9@netrox.net...
>
> "Dave C." wrote:
>>
>> A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for CD's
>> and
>> DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I have some Avery
>> labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
>>
>> What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
>
> It is recommended that you don't use labels because they can cause
> vibrations especially with newer drives that can spin at 10,000 RPM. I
> have several disks with labels that were applied perfectly centered and
> they don't shake.
>
>> Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
>
> I have been using sharpies for eight years and have never had any trouble
> with them.
>
>> Regards, Dave C.
>
> --
> Mike Walsh
> West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A.
> A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for
> CD's and DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I
> have some Avery labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
> What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
Hasnt changed, they arent a great idea.
> Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
They fine, I use sharpies myself.
You can also get printers that print directly on them for peanuts too.
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4or6h4Fg1e88U1@individual.net...
> Dave C. <myaddress.net> wrote:
>
>> A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for
>> CD's and DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I
>> have some Avery labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
>
>> What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
>
> Hasnt changed, they arent a great idea.
>
>> Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
>
> They fine, I use sharpies myself.
>
> You can also get printers that print directly on them for peanuts too.
On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 20:36:33 -0400, "Dave C." <myaddress.net>
wrote:
>A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for CD's and
>DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I have some Avery
>labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
>
>What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
>
>Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
>
>Regards, Dave C.
>
As already mentioned, labels can possibly make the disc
imbalanced. IF you can get a full circumference label on
evenly, such that it's balanced, that should be ok.
As for markers, on CD-R the top layer is exposed, only
covered by a coating. Some hard tipped markers can damage
the data layer, or in theory the market ink might react with
the chemistry of the protective layer or the data layer.
With DVDs, this is not an issue because there is a
polycarbonate layer on top as well as on the bottom.
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Dave C. <myaddress.net> wrote
>> A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for
>> CD's and DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I
>> have some Avery labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
>> What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
>> Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
> As already mentioned, labels can possibly make the disc
> imbalanced. IF you can get a full circumference label on
> evenly, such that it's balanced, that should be ok.
> As for markers, on CD-R the top layer is exposed, only
> covered by a coating. Some hard tipped markers can damage
> the data layer, or in theory the market ink might react with
> the chemistry of the protective layer or the data layer.
> With DVDs, this is not an issue because there is a
> polycarbonate layer on top as well as on the bottom.
Well when looking at the physical characteristics of a CD vs DVD from the
description of them on this website below it appears to indicate that there
are two substrates on a DVD in comparison to only one on a CD. The drawings
seem to clarify that point as well.
--
Jan Alter bearpuf@verizon.net
or jalter@phila.k12.pa.us
"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:ecqhi2l4ode8llgn1boj5hkq6o3c630ohh@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Wrong.
>
>
> Feeling verbose today?
"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:ecqhi2l4ode8llgn1boj5hkq6o3c630ohh@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Wrong.
>
>
> Feeling verbose today?
Rod Speed is right !
Many markers contain alcohol, which dissolves plastic composites. That's the
reason why special CD/DVD markers are available.
Concerning the labels, there's another important potential issue. Many
CD/DVD readers become very hot, and this dissolves the glue of the label,
resulting in air bubbles between label and disc. In that case of course, the
disc becomes unreadable. I' ve encountered this problem with many label
brands, except one, which is Neato. They're more expensive, but work fine.
The best solution is to print directly on the disc (Canon or Epson inkjet
printers). However, be careful with the inks you use, as many (replacement)
inks can smear, even after a few months.
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>>> Dave C. <myaddress.net> wrote
>>>> A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for
>>>> CD's and DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I
>>>> have some Avery labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
>>>> What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
>>>> Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
>>> As already mentioned, labels can possibly make the disc
>>> imbalanced. IF you can get a full circumference label on
>>> evenly, such that it's balanced, that should be ok.
>>> As for markers, on CD-R the top layer is exposed, only
>>> covered by a coating. Some hard tipped markers can damage
>>> the data layer, or in theory the market ink might react with
>>> the chemistry of the protective layer or the data layer.
>>> With DVDs, this is not an issue because there is a
>>> polycarbonate layer on top as well as on the bottom.
>> Wrong.
> Feeling verbose today?
Dont need any more than that, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
That's for dual layer DVDs, not what the OP was actually talking about.
Jan Alter <bearpuf@verizon.net> wrote:
> Well when looking at the physical characteristics of a CD vs DVD from the description of them on
> this website below it appears to
> indicate that there are two substrates on a DVD in comparison to only
> one on a CD. The drawings seem to clarify that point as well.
>
> http://www.teamsolutions.co.uk/tsdvd.html
>
>
>> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Wrong.
>>
>>
>> Feeling verbose today?
> That's for dual layer DVDs, not what the OP was actually talking about.
>
> Jan Alter <bearpuf@verizon.net> wrote:
>> Well when looking at the physical characteristics of a CD vs DVD from the
>> description of them on this website below it appears to
>> indicate that there are two substrates on a DVD in comparison to only
>> one on a CD. The drawings seem to clarify that point as well.
>>
>> http://www.teamsolutions.co.uk/tsdvd.html
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> Feeling verbose today?
>
>
It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a single or
dual layer DVD.
This chart is from the website I published earlier.
CD DVD
Disc diameter 120 mm 120 mm
Disc thickness 1.2 mm 1.2 mm
Disc structure single substrate two bonded 0.6 mm substrates
Laser wavelength 780 nm (infrared) 650 nm & 635 nm (red)
Numerical aperture 0.45 0.60
Track pitch 1.6 um 0.74 um
Shortest pit/land length 0.83 um 0.4 um (0.44 um double layer)
Reference speed 1.2 m/s CLV 4.0 m/s CLV
Data layers 1 1 or 2
Data capacity Approx 680 MB 4.7 GB (single layer)
8.5 GB (two layers)
Reference user data rate 153.6 KBps (mode1)
176.4 KBps (mode2) 1108 KBps (nominal)
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:47:53 GMT, "ElJerid"
<s.vanderhaeghen@pandora.be> wrote:
>
>"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
>news:ecqhi2l4ode8llgn1boj5hkq6o3c630ohh@4ax.com.. .
>> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Wrong.
>>
>>
>> Feeling verbose today?
>
>Rod Speed is right !
>Many markers contain alcohol, which dissolves plastic composites. That's the
>reason why special CD/DVD markers are available.
No, alcohol does not dissolve polycarbonate.
>Concerning the labels, there's another important potential issue. Many
>CD/DVD readers become very hot, and this dissolves the glue of the label,
>resulting in air bubbles between label and disc.
Heat melts, not dissolves. Any properly made label should
not come off from being in a drive, but that doesn't prevent
anyone from not properly affixing it to the disc.
>In that case of course, the
>disc becomes unreadable.
You think a bubble on a label makes a disc unreadable?
Seems pretty far fetched.
>I' ve encountered this problem with many label
>brands, except one, which is Neato. They're more expensive, but work fine.
I don't discount the possibility that some labels are junk,
there are many junk products made only towards lowest cost.
>The best solution is to print directly on the disc (Canon or Epson inkjet
>printers). However, be careful with the inks you use, as many (replacement)
>inks can smear, even after a few months.
IMO, the best solution is not to label them at all, except a
tiny index code in the center.
Jan Alter <bearpuf@verizon.net> wrote:
>> That's for dual layer DVDs, not what the OP was actually talking
>> about.
>
>
>>
>> Jan Alter <bearpuf@verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Well when looking at the physical characteristics of a CD vs DVD
>>> from the description of them on this website below it appears to
>>> indicate that there are two substrates on a DVD in comparison to
>>> only one on a CD. The drawings seem to clarify that point as well.
>>>
>>> http://www.teamsolutions.co.uk/tsdvd.html
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Feeling verbose today?
> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a single or dual layer DVD.
Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
> This chart is from the website I published earlier.
> CD DVD
> Disc diameter 120 mm 120 mm
> Disc thickness 1.2 mm 1.2 mm
> Disc structure single substrate two bonded 0.6 mm substrates
> Laser wavelength 780 nm (infrared) 650 nm & 635 nm (red)
> Numerical aperture 0.45 0.60
> Track pitch 1.6 um 0.74 um
> Shortest pit/land length 0.83 um 0.4 um (0.44 um double layer)
> Reference speed 1.2 m/s CLV 4.0 m/s CLV
> Data layers 1 1 or 2
> Data capacity Approx 680 MB 4.7 GB (single layer)
> 8.5 GB (two layers)
> Reference user data rate 153.6 KBps (mode1)
> 176.4 KBps (mode2) 1108 KBps (nominal)
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 17:47:53 GMT, "ElJerid"
> <s.vanderhaeghen@pandora.be> wrote:
>
>>
>> "kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
>> news:ecqhi2l4ode8llgn1boj5hkq6o3c630ohh@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>> Feeling verbose today?
>>
>> Rod Speed is right !
>> Many markers contain alcohol, which dissolves plastic composites.
>> That's the reason why special CD/DVD markers are available.
>
> No, alcohol does not dissolve polycarbonate.
>
>
>> Concerning the labels, there's another important potential issue.
>> Many CD/DVD readers become very hot, and this dissolves the glue of
>> the label, resulting in air bubbles between label and disc.
>
> Heat melts, not dissolves. Any properly made label should
> not come off from being in a drive, but that doesn't prevent
> anyone from not properly affixing it to the disc.
>
>
>> In that case of course, the
>> disc becomes unreadable.
>
> You think a bubble on a label makes a disc unreadable?
> Seems pretty far fetched.
>
>> I' ve encountered this problem with many label
>> brands, except one, which is Neato. They're more expensive, but work
>> fine.
>
> I don't discount the possibility that some labels are junk,
> there are many junk products made only towards lowest cost.
>
>
>> The best solution is to print directly on the disc (Canon or Epson
>> inkjet printers). However, be careful with the inks you use, as many
>> (replacement) inks can smear, even after a few months.
>
> IMO, the best solution is not to label them at all, except a
> tiny index code in the center.
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:23:32 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a single or dual layer DVD.
>
>Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>
On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 19:31:42 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:23:32 +1000, "Rod Speed"
><rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a single or dual layer DVD.
>>
>>Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>>
>
>
>Yes, writeable DVDs!
>http://www.cd-info.com/tech/media/dl_fig.html
>
>Polycarb on top and bottom.
So I was wrong. I'm almost never wrong. Ask anybody.
kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:23:32 +1000, "Rod Speed"
> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a
>>> single or dual layer DVD.
>>
>> Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>>
>
>
> Yes, writeable DVDs!
> http://www.cd-info.com/tech/media/dl_fig.html
>
> Polycarb on top and bottom.
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4ot1puFg64j0U1@individual.net...
> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>>>> Dave C. <myaddress.net> wrote
>
>>>>> A while ago there was some caution about using stick-on labels for
>>>>> CD's and DVD's in that they could have some effect on the data. I
>>>>> have some Avery labels I wish to use on some backup data DVD's.
>
>>>>> What is the latest opinion on the use of labels?
>
>>>>> Also, what is the latest opinion on using felt instant markers?
>
>>>> As already mentioned, labels can possibly make the disc
>>>> imbalanced. IF you can get a full circumference label on
>>>> evenly, such that it's balanced, that should be ok.
>
>>>> As for markers, on CD-R the top layer is exposed, only
>>>> covered by a coating. Some hard tipped markers can damage
>>>> the data layer, or in theory the market ink might react with
>>>> the chemistry of the protective layer or the data layer.
>
>>>> With DVDs, this is not an issue because there is a
>>>> polycarbonate layer on top as well as on the bottom.
>
>>> Wrong.
>
>> Feeling verbose today?
>
> Dont need any more than that, you pathetic excuse for a bullshit artist.
>
>
Rod-
Sometimes you've given some reasonable responses to questions, but with this
one you've pushed the envelope. Take a breather and review what was being
said. Kony pointed out that there were two polycarbonate layers on the DVD.
>With DVDs, this is not an issue because there is a
polycarbonate layer on top as well as on the bottom.
Your response
>Wrong.
I pointed you to a website that described the DVD as having two
polycarbonate layers.
You responded that this referred to dual layer disks. I wrote back that it
referred to both single and dual layer disks.
Afterwards you said that that this information wasn't applicable to
writeable DVDs. In fact the information was about writeable DVDs.
And your final remark
>More fool you
All this simply gives at least me, a loss of credibility to you dealing with
the facts. What is equally irritating is that you go about it in an
omniscient manner that tells me your full of yourself.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in
news:bk5ji2t6icn6lkgtl7k9r516jjmh3v3hsl@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 19:31:42 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:23:32 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>><rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a
>>>> single or dual layer DVD.
>>>
>>>Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>>>
>>
>>
>>Yes, writeable DVDs!
>>http://www.cd-info.com/tech/media/dl_fig.html
>>
>>Polycarb on top and bottom.
>
> So I was wrong.
Hardly seems possible. Does this mean we get cheated out of a month long
'is not/is too' thread with no one reading it but the is not/is tooers?
Rod Speed wrote:
> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>
>>> Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>
>> ... I have to wonder if you've ever seen a writeable DVD?
>
> Yep, use them all the time, thanks.
>
>> Pretty obvious just looking at one.
>
> Odd, mine dont look any different to CDRs on that stuff,
> and thats a number of different brand writeable DVDs too.
If you lightly scrape the top of a CD-R, you can flake off that top
layer. You will be able to see through the disc in that spot. If you
do the same to a DVD-R, you will mar the top surface, but the recordable
layer remains intact. That can be confirmed by attempting a validated
write to both discs.
Also, if you hold both discs up to the light, you should be able to see
that the DVD-R is two fairly thick clear layers of polycarbonate that
sandwiches a thin layer. The CD-R is one thicker layer that has a thin
lamina on its top side.
If you'd like digital photos I can attempt them, but I'm not sure if my
camera or my expertise is up to the job.
Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 19:31:42 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:23:32 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a
>>>> single or dual layer DVD.
>>>
>>> Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, writeable DVDs!
>> http://www.cd-info.com/tech/media/dl_fig.html
>>
>> Polycarb on top and bottom.
>
> So I was wrong. I'm almost never wrong. Ask anybody.
Never ever could bullshit its way out of a wet paper bag.
Mitch Crane <a-one@a-two.a-three> wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:bk5ji2t6icn6lkgtl7k9r516jjmh3v3hsl@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 19:31:42 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:23:32 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a
>>>>> single or dual layer DVD.
>>>>
>>>> Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, writeable DVDs!
>>> http://www.cd-info.com/tech/media/dl_fig.html
>>>
>>> Polycarb on top and bottom.
>>
>> So I was wrong.
>
> Hardly seems possible. Does this mean we get cheated out of a month
> long 'is not/is too' thread with no one reading it but the is not/is tooers?
Nope, you're so stupid you cant even pick the most primitive faking.
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bk5ji2t6icn6lkgtl7k9r516jjmh3v3hsl@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 08 Oct 2006 19:31:42 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>
> So I was wrong. I'm almost never wrong. Ask anybody.
Your first sentence is certainly right.
Your second sentence is certainly wrong.
Anybody who has read as many of your posts as I
have is likely to favor your first sentence.
"ElJerid" <s.vanderhaeghen@pandora.be> wrote in message
news:dRaWg.118781$oa5.2352164@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
>
> "kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:ecqhi2l4ode8llgn1boj5hkq6o3c630ohh@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 15:02:37 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Wrong.
>>
>>
>> Feeling verbose today?
>
> Rod Speed is right !
> Many markers contain alcohol, which dissolves plastic composites. That's
> the reason why special CD/DVD markers are available.
> Concerning the labels, there's another important potential issue. Many
> CD/DVD readers become very hot, and this dissolves the glue of the label,
> resulting in air bubbles between label and disc. In that case of course,
> the disc becomes unreadable. I' ve encountered this problem with many
> label brands, except one, which is Neato. They're more expensive, but work
> fine. The best solution is to print directly on the disc (Canon or Epson
> inkjet printers). However, be careful with the inks you use, as many
> (replacement) inks can smear, even after a few months.
>
Much of what you say is true, some of it is a little
exaggerated but technically true. But Ron Speed is
totally wrong if he really believes DVDs don't have
a polycarb layer on both sides.
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4ou16kFg4dg6U1@individual.net:
> Mitch Crane <a-one@a-two.a-three> wrote:
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:bk5ji2t6icn6lkgtl7k9r516jjmh3v3hsl@4ax.com:
>>
>>> So I was wrong.
>>
>> Hardly seems possible. Does this mean we get cheated out of a month
>> long 'is not/is too' thread with no one reading it but the is not/is
>> tooers?
>
> Nope, you're so stupid you cant even pick the most primitive faking.
On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:25:16 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 08:23:32 +1000, "Rod Speed"
>> <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> It says in the chart that there are two substrates for either a
>>>> single or dual layer DVD.
>>>
>>> Not with the writeable DVDs the OP was talking about it doesnt.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, writeable DVDs!
>> http://www.cd-info.com/tech/media/dl_fig.html
>>
>> Polycarb on top and bottom.
>
>Thats a dual layer DVD.
>
CD-DVD Disk Labels 
Linear Mode
