In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35964@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott says...
> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
> with the power turned on?
>
>
>
USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers up the
motherboard PS2 port.
On Jan 11, 8:30*am, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35...@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott says...> Canthe keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
> > with the power turned on?
>
> USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers up the
> motherboard PS2 port.
>
> --
> Conor
>
> I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:24:39 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
<PeteOlcott@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 11, 8:30*am, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35...@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott says...> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
>> > with the power turned on?
>>
>> USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers up the
>> motherboard PS2 port.
>>
>> --
>> Conor
>>
>> I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
>
>Meaning that it damages the motherboard PS2 port?
Meaning that it could, but more often the problem is it
isn't designed to be redetected.
On Jan 11, 9:33*am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:24:39 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
>
> <PeteOlc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 11, 8:30*am, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35...@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott says...> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
> >> > with the power turned on?
>
> >> USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers up the
> >> motherboard PS2 port.
>
> >> --
> >> Conor
>
> >> I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
>
> >Meaning that it damages the motherboard PS2 port?
>
> Meaning that it could, but more often the problem is it
> isn't designed to be redetected.
>
> Simple answer - don't do it.
Already did it, and trying to see if this is the cause of my problems.
What problems can this cause? If this is the cause of my problems
would replacing the keybarod with a USB keyboard fix the problem?
PeteOlcott wrote:
> On Jan 11, 9:33 am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:24:39 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
>>
>> <PeteOlc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Jan 11, 8:30 am, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35...@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott
>>>> says...> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
>>>>> with the power turned on?
>>
>>>> USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers
>>>> up the
>>>> motherboard PS2 port.
>>
>>>> --
>>>> Conor
>>
>>>> I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
>>
>>> Meaning that it damages the motherboard PS2 port?
>>
>> Meaning that it could, but more often the problem is it
>> isn't designed to be redetected.
>>
>> Simple answer - don't do it.
>
> Already did it, and trying to see if this is the cause of my problems.
> What problems can this cause? If this is the cause of my problems
> would replacing the keybarod with a USB keyboard fix the problem?
If the only thing you managed to bugger up is the PS2 keyboard controller,
possibly. Can't hurt to try though.
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:39:30 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
<PeteOlcott@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 11, 9:33*am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:24:39 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
>>
>> <PeteOlc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Jan 11, 8:30*am, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35...@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott says...> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
>> >> > with the power turned on?
>>
>> >> USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers up the
>> >> motherboard PS2 port.
>>
>> >> --
>> >> Conor
>>
>> >> I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
>>
>> >Meaning that it damages the motherboard PS2 port?
>>
>> Meaning that it could, but more often the problem is it
>> isn't designed to be redetected.
>>
>> Simple answer - don't do it.
>
>Already did it, and trying to see if this is the cause of my problems.
>What problems can this cause? If this is the cause of my problems
>would replacing the keybarod with a USB keyboard fix the problem?
Try keyboard with another system. Try another keyboard with
that system.
Yes a USB keyboard should still work, it is only coincidence
it is a keyboard as the port is different.
On Jan 11, 11:16*am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:39:30 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
>
>
>
>
>
> <PeteOlc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Jan 11, 9:33*am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:24:39 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
>
> >> <PeteOlc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Jan 11, 8:30*am, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35...@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott says....> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
> >> >> > with the power turned on?
>
> >> >> USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers up the
> >> >> motherboard PS2 port.
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Conor
>
> >> >> I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
>
> >> >Meaning that it damages the motherboard PS2 port?
>
> >> Meaning that it could, but more often the problem is it
> >> isn't designed to be redetected.
>
> >> Simple answer - don't do it.
>
> >Already did it, and trying to see if this is the cause of my problems.
> >What problems can this cause? If this is the cause of my problems
> >would replacing the keybarod with a USB keyboard fix the problem?
>
> Try keyboard with another system. *Try another keyboard with
> that system.
>
> Yes a USB keyboard should still work, it is only coincidence
> it is a keyboard as the port is different.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Would both types of keyboard interfaces (USB and PS2) use the same
keyboard controller on the motherboard?
On 11 Jan, 17:16, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:39:30 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
>
> >Already did it, and trying to see if this is the cause of my problems.
> >What problems can this cause? If this is the cause of my problems
> >would replacing the keybarod with a USB keyboard fix the problem?
>
> Try keyboard with another system. Try another keyboard with
> that system.
Best not to risk doing that. Although it's never happened to me I
have heard stories (from trustworthy sources) of damage being passed
from system to system in this manner. The keyboard is unplugged and
the system is damaged. The system then damages any keyboard plugged
into it. The damaged keyboard then damages any system it is plugged
into. For a cheap keyboard I doubt it's worth the risk. If you had a
premium or particularly treasured keyboard, maybe - keyboards are
highly personal things after all - but test it on a scrapper first.
I'd generally throw out the keyboard as a bad risk and seal off the
mobo's keyboard port with e.g. epoxy to prevent anything being
inserted in future. Just make sure it isn't one of those graphite or
silver loaded conductive epoxies.
On 11 Jan, 19:42, PeteOlcott <PeteOlc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 11, 11:16 am, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes a USB keyboard should still work, it is only coincidence
> > it is a keyboard as the port is different.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Would both types of keyboard interfaces (USB and PS2) use the same
> keyboard controller on the motherboard?
No. FWIW the keyboard controller is actually embedded in the
keyboard. The two different standards use completely independent
systems. From memory even the scancodes are different.
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 11:42:23 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
<PeteOlcott@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try keyboard with another system. *Try another keyboard with
>> that system.
>>
>> Yes a USB keyboard should still work, it is only coincidence
>> it is a keyboard as the port is different.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Would both types of keyboard interfaces (USB and PS2) use the same
>keyboard controller on the motherboard?
No, the PS2 ports generally have the controller in the
superIO chip. The USB ports are a separate controller which
is (depending on the age of the board) in a discrete USB
controller on older boards or the soutbridge (or northbridge
on single chip, chipsets) on newer boards.
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:45:04 -0800 (PST), Andrew
<andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
>On 11 Jan, 17:16, kony <s...@spam.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:39:30 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
>>
>> >Already did it, and trying to see if this is the cause of my problems.
>> >What problems can this cause? If this is the cause of my problems
>> >would replacing the keybarod with a USB keyboard fix the problem?
>>
>> Try keyboard with another system. Try another keyboard with
>> that system.
>
>Best not to risk doing that. Although it's never happened to me I
>have heard stories (from trustworthy sources) of damage being passed
>from system to system in this manner.
It is possible but IMO, if one were to always throw away any
suspect part instead of retrying it, there would be a lot of
trash unnecessarily.
>The keyboard is unplugged and
>the system is damaged. The system then damages any keyboard plugged
>into it.
Not likely. If the keyboard controller were damaged it
would just not work with another keyboard, not damage
another keyboard.
>The damaged keyboard then damages any system it is plugged
>into.
While possible, it is also unlikely... remembering that the
two parts did work together already, rather than one or the
other being grossly defective.
> For a cheap keyboard I doubt it's worth the risk. If you had a
>premium or particularly treasured keyboard, maybe - keyboards are
>highly personal things after all - but test it on a scrapper first.
>I'd generally throw out the keyboard as a bad risk and seal off the
>mobo's keyboard port with e.g. epoxy to prevent anything being
>inserted in future. Just make sure it isn't one of those graphite or
>silver loaded conductive epoxies.
Seems a bit extreme. When the controller is damaged it's
just be the logic circuit burnt out which doesn't generally
subject connected parts to damage. It might be different if
it were a manufacturing defect.
>> USB has alwasy been hot pluggable so you're safe to
>> plug in whenever you like.
>
> There are several exceptions to that. You can certainly plug it in, but
> the results will be far less than satisfactory.
>
> http://www.dkimages.com/discover/pre...751/956536.JPG
Pussy again!
--
Peter.
You don't understand Newton's Third Law of Motion?
It's not rocket science, you know.
"Peter Olcott" wrote:
> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in with the power
> turned on?
While not a good idea, I've done it on about every system I've ever owned.
The current one falls out every few weeks or so, at which time I plug it
back in and go about my business.
The only thing that is noticeably different is that the typematic rate
changes, at least until the next boot.
Peter Olcott wrote:
>
>Can the. keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
>with the power turned on?
>
You can usually get away with it, but except for the USB ports, the
hardware isn't designed to tolerate that because its chips can't
handle current surges very well, and there are almost no protection
devices placed between the MOS chips and outside world. The situation
was usually better with old designs, where every outside connection
would have a resistor in series (and perhaps an inductor), a capacitor
to ground, and be clamped to ground through a diode and clamped to Vcc
through a zener diode. And between those components and the expensive
chips would often be a generic buffer chip that was not only rugged
but could be replaced inexpensively.
On 2008-01-11, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 12:45:04 -0800 (PST), Andrew
><andrews@sdf.lonestar.org> wrote:
>
>>The keyboard is unplugged and
>>the system is damaged. The system then damages any keyboard plugged
>>into it.
>
> Not likely. If the keyboard controller were damaged it
> would just not work with another keyboard, not damage
> another keyboard.
I agree it is unlikely and it has certainly never happended to me
personally, however it _has_ happened that way in the past. At
the very least it is an issue to be aware of, save you end up
destroying more and more equipment in the attempt to diagnose what
has gone wrong. A simple £10 fix for a new USB keyboard could end
up costing hundreds.
>> For a cheap keyboard I doubt it's worth the risk. If you had a
>>premium or particularly treasured keyboard, maybe - keyboards are
>>highly personal things after all - but test it on a scrapper first.
>>I'd generally throw out the keyboard as a bad risk and seal off the
>>mobo's keyboard port with e.g. epoxy to prevent anything being
>>inserted in future. Just make sure it isn't one of those graphite or
>>silver loaded conductive epoxies.
>
> Seems a bit extreme. When the controller is damaged it's
> just be the logic circuit burnt out which doesn't generally
> subject connected parts to damage. It might be different if
> it were a manufacturing defect.
I do see another possibility, using a disposable keyboard (a £5
type, or one that has been replaced because some of the keys are
tempremental) to test the system. If it works, great, you've
isolated the problem which was the original keyboard and it needs
junking. If not, then conservately regard _both_ keyboards as
suspect and junk them and block of the port (now known to be
defective) to prevent any further possibility of damage.
"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:uv2fo3taj7o7av424rd95jab1td6t6rudg@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:24:39 -0800 (PST), PeteOlcott
> <PeteOlcott@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 11, 8:30 am, Conor <conor_tur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> In article <hyKhj.43459$1C4.35...@newsfe10.phx>, Peter Olcott says...>
>>> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
>>> > with the power turned on?
>>>
>>> USB, yes. PS2 - well some can and some can't. Usually it buggers up the
>>> motherboard PS2 port.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Conor
>>>
>>> I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.
>>
>>Meaning that it damages the motherboard PS2 port?
>
> Meaning that it could, but more often the problem is it
> isn't designed to be redetected.
>
> Simple answer - don't do it.
Indeed! I' ve done it before (PS2 port on old Asus CUSL2-C)) and the
keyboard controller was definitively dead. Fortunately, I could still use an
USB kbd.
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:49:44 -0800, "Jon Danniken"
<jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>"Peter Olcott" wrote:
>> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in with the power
>> turned on?
>
>While not a good idea, I've done it on about every system I've ever owned.
>The current one falls out every few weeks or so, at which time I plug it
>back in and go about my business.
>
>The only thing that is noticeably different is that the typematic rate
>changes, at least until the next boot.
>
>I wouldn't recommend it, though.
>
>Jon
I have two Win9x systems connected to a passive KVM box. Whenever I
switch between them, the typematic settings are lost.
To work around this, I have a desktop shortcut which I access with
Ctrl_Alt_K and which executes the following command line:
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MODE.COM con rate=32 delay=1
I don't know if a similar technique will work for Win2K and above.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 07:54:20 -0600, "Peter Olcott"
<NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
>with the power turned on?
I have a passive KVM box that connects two computers to an old
AT-style keyboard. AFAICS, switching between PCs is akin to
hotplugging the keyboard. I've done this hundreds of times without
incident. I would think that a properly designed KVM box should make
the power contacts before making the signal contacts, as is the case
with USB, but my box appears to have only a simple multipole rotary
switch.
- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
On 2008-01-13, Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
>
> I have a passive KVM box that connects two computers to an old
> AT-style keyboard. AFAICS, switching between PCs is akin to
> hotplugging the keyboard. I've done this hundreds of times without
> incident. I would think that a properly designed KVM box should make
> the power contacts before making the signal contacts, as is the case
> with USB, but my box appears to have only a simple multipole rotary
> switch.
ISTR AT style keyboards should be hot pluggable, in practice even
if not by design (similar to serial and parallel ports). It is
PS/2 ports that are potentially troublesome. Even then, many
mobo/keyboard combinations are perfectly happy with hot-plugging,
it is just there is no way of knowing if yours happens to be one
of them before trying it, by which time it may be too late.
Of course, I've no idea how this relates to the fact the two types
are electrically identical and you can easily adapt AT to PS/2 and
vice versa... the connections on an AT keyboard are standard 5-pin
DIN AFAIK, there's no differentiation in contact length. Maybe it
is simply standard practice that AT keyboard sockets have the
necessary protection in place.
"Franc Zabkar" wrote ,
> "Jon Danniken" put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>
>>While not a good idea, I've done it on about every system I've ever owned.
>>The current one falls out every few weeks or so, at which time I plug it
>>back in and go about my business.
>>
>>The only thing that is noticeably different is that the typematic rate
>>changes, at least until the next boot.
>>
>>I wouldn't recommend it, though.
>>
>>
>
> I have two Win9x systems connected to a passive KVM box. Whenever I
> switch between them, the typematic settings are lost.
>
> To work around this, I have a desktop shortcut which I access with
> Ctrl_Alt_K and which executes the following command line:
>
> C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MODE.COM con rate=32 delay=1
>
> I don't know if a similar technique will work for Win2K and above.
Thanks, Franc, I'll give that a whirl the next time my cord becomes yanked.
"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:5v17noF1jtgovU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Franc Zabkar" wrote ,
>> "Jon Danniken" put finger to keyboard and composed:
>>>
>>>While not a good idea, I've done it on about every system
>>>I've ever owned.
>>>The current one falls out every few weeks or so, at which
>>>time I plug it
>>>back in and go about my business.
>>>
>>>The only thing that is noticeably different is that the
>>>typematic rate
>>>changes, at least until the next boot.
>>>
>>>I wouldn't recommend it, though.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have two Win9x systems connected to a passive KVM box.
>> Whenever I
>> switch between them, the typematic settings are lost.
>>
>> To work around this, I have a desktop shortcut which I
>> access with
>> Ctrl_Alt_K and which executes the following command line:
>>
>> C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MODE.COM con rate=32 delay=1
>>
>> I don't know if a similar technique will work for Win2K
>> and above.
>
> Thanks, Franc, I'll give that a whirl the next time my
> cord becomes yanked.
>
> Jon
The fact that the keyboard was not designed to be hot
pluggable was apparently the root cause of my problem. My
keyboard was destroyed. The PS2 port worked OK with another
keyboard, but, the optimal solution that I chose was to
switch to a hot pluggable USB keyboard. I have been using a
USB mouse for years.
"Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> wrote in message
news:hyKhj.43459$1C4.35964@newsfe10.phx...
> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in with the power
> turned on?
>
I do it all the time on both my computers with PS2 ports.
No problems whatsoever.
I would not hesitate to do it on a brand new computer.
"Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> wrote in message
news:hyKhj.43459$1C4.35964@newsfe10.phx...
> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in with the power
> turned on?
Yes. Well PS2 is for sure, I have done it on both my computers
with no problem.
Hard to see how any hard couldbe done
"Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:y1Pij.48210$Hc3.7150@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> wrote in message
> news:hyKhj.43459$1C4.35964@newsfe10.phx...
>> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in
>> with the power turned on?
>>
>
> I do it all the time on both my computers with PS2 ports.
> No problems whatsoever.
> I would not hesitate to do it on a brand new computer.
>
It ruined my keyboard to I switched to a USB keyboard.
"Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> wrote in message
news:13onj0sj56o6346@news.supernews.com...
>
> "Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:y1Pij.48210$Hc3.7150@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Peter Olcott" <NoSpam@SeeScreen.com> wrote in message
>> news:hyKhj.43459$1C4.35964@newsfe10.phx...
>>> Can the keyboard be safely unplugged, and plugged back in with the power
>>> turned on?
>>>
>>
>> I do it all the time on both my computers with PS2 ports.
>> No problems whatsoever.
>> I would not hesitate to do it on a brand new computer.
>>
>
> It ruined my keyboard to I switched to a USB keyboard.
??? how can you ruin a keybooard?
All you are doing is plugging it it, ie giving it power, which is
the same as you so when ou power your computer up.
I fail to see how any device can not be hot pluggable, to be honest.
>> It ruined my keyboard to I switched to a USB keyboard.
>
> ??? how can you ruin a keybooard?
More likely he meant it ruined the keyboard port on the PC.
> All you are doing is plugging it it, ie giving it power, which is
> the same as you so when ou power your computer up.
>
> I fail to see how any device can not be hot pluggable, to be honest.
Plug is half way in... the 5v and data lines have made contact, but not
ground. All power is shunted through the data leads - *POP*
Is the keyboard hot pluggable? 
Linear Mode
