Laptop Advise

Hello,

My neice is in grade school and wants a laptop to fool around
with (browsing the internet, and email ect...). I am looking at a
refurbished Dell Latitude C600 with a 1ghz CPU, 256mb ram, windows
2000, and a 20gig hard drive. Does this sound like a good option? I
can't find out what type of graphic card it has. I don't know much
about laptops. Any help or advise would be appreciated.

Thank you!

Breck Fontaine wrote:
> Hello,
>
> My neice is in grade school and wants a laptop to fool around
> with (browsing the internet, and email ect...). I am looking at a
> refurbished Dell Latitude C600 with a 1ghz CPU, 256mb ram, windows
> 2000, and a 20gig hard drive. Does this sound like a good option? I
> can't find out what type of graphic card it has. I don't know much
> about laptops. Any help or advise would be appreciated.
>
> Thank you!

That's a fine system for what you're gonna use it for.

paulmd@efn.org wrote:

>
> Breck Fontaine wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> My neice is in grade school and wants a laptop to fool around
>> with (browsing the internet, and email ect...). I am looking at a
>> refurbished Dell Latitude C600 with a 1ghz CPU, 256mb ram, windows
>> 2000, and a 20gig hard drive. Does this sound like a good option? I
>> can't find out what type of graphic card it has. I don't know much
>> about laptops. Any help or advise would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thank you!
>
> That's a fine system for what you're gonna use it for.

whats the price of it?

Win2k on a laptop PC is good for internet, MS Office, etc., but is not good for games because Win2k was designed for business, not gaming, and it is rare for a laptop PC to have a good 3D graphics card.

"paulmd@efn.org" wrote:
>
> Breck Fontaine wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > My neice is in grade school and wants a laptop to fool around
> > with (browsing the internet, and email ect...). I am looking at a
> > refurbished Dell Latitude C600 with a 1ghz CPU, 256mb ram, windows
> > 2000, and a 20gig hard drive. Does this sound like a good option? I
> > can't find out what type of graphic card it has. I don't know much
> > about laptops. Any help or advise would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you!
>
> That's a fine system for what you're gonna use it for.

--
Mike Walsh
West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A.

Thanks for the advice. The price is $225.00 to $240.00, plus shipping.

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:43:16 -0400, Mike Walsh <spamscks@netrox.net>
wrote:

>
>Win2k on a laptop PC is good for internet, MS Office, etc., but is not good for games because Win2k was designed for business, not gaming, and it is rare for a laptop PC to have a good 3D graphics card.
>
>"paulmd@efn.org" wrote:
>>
>> Breck Fontaine wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > My neice is in grade school and wants a laptop to fool around
>> > with (browsing the internet, and email ect...). I am looking at a
>> > refurbished Dell Latitude C600 with a 1ghz CPU, 256mb ram, windows
>> > 2000, and a 20gig hard drive. Does this sound like a good option? I
>> > can't find out what type of graphic card it has. I don't know much
>> > about laptops. Any help or advise would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > Thank you!
>>
>> That's a fine system for what you're gonna use it for.

Breck Fontaine wrote:

> Thanks for the advice. The price is $225.00 to $240.00, plus shipping.

I would be careful about buying some thing online but for that price not bad
it would have been better if you could test the laptop but in the end it's
your choice and your risk. Are you able to send it back if some thing goes
wrong?

On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:43:16 -0400, Mike Walsh
<spamscks@netrox.net> wrote:

>
>Win2k on a laptop PC is good for internet, MS Office, etc.,
>but is not good for games because Win2k was designed
>for business, not gaming,

Depends on the games. I've played quite a few of the more
popular games on a Win2k box.

Older games might be a problem, those best suited to Win9x,
but we can't know about a given title. In general modern
games meant for XP do run on 2K fine.

To Darklight,

There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy something
local. My only other option is to buy from a online source. The prices
are or seem to be better (online). But your correct about the risk
factor. I can't find a local seller or computer shop with this item I
am looking for. Thanks for everyone's help.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 04:47:14 -0400, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 10:43:16 -0400, Mike Walsh
><spamscks@netrox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Win2k on a laptop PC is good for internet, MS Office, etc.,
>>but is not good for games because Win2k was designed
>>for business, not gaming,
>
>Depends on the games. I've played quite a few of the more
>popular games on a Win2k box.
>
>Older games might be a problem, those best suited to Win9x,
>but we can't know about a given title. In general modern
>games meant for XP do run on 2K fine.
>

Breck Fontaine wrote:
> To Darklight,
>
> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy something
> local. My only other option is to buy from a online source. The prices
> are or seem to be better (online). But your correct about the risk
> factor. I can't find a local seller or computer shop with this item I
> am looking for. Thanks for everyone's help.
>

Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store price. It's
hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class, that work. People
retian laptops longer than desktops for 2 reasons: the initial cost,
and since laptops aren't generally gaming machines, they still
continue to suit their purpose longer. Hence the high price on the
machine you're looking at. And the seller CAN get that price, too.
Much more, too. Not finding a local seller on that item is no surprise,
either.

If trust is an issue, there are factory refurbs. For example:

http://www.dell.com/content/products...=22&l=en&s=dfh

paulmd@efn.org wrote:
> Breck Fontaine wrote:
>> To Darklight,
>>
>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy something
>> local. My only other option is to buy from a online source. The
>> prices are or seem to be better (online). But your correct about the
>> risk factor. I can't find a local seller or computer shop with this
>> item I am looking for. Thanks for everyone's help.

> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store price. It's
> hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class, that work. People
> retian laptops longer than desktops

That is VERY arguable.

> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
> gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.

In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
be cheaper than replacing just the battery.

> Hence the high price on the machine you're looking at.
> And the seller CAN get that price, too. Much more, too.
> Not finding a local seller on that item is no surprise, either.

> If trust is an issue, there are factory refurbs. For example:

> http://www.dell.com/content/products...=22&l=en&s=dfh

On Mon, 7 Aug 2006 19:41:15 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>paulmd@efn.org wrote:
>> Breck Fontaine wrote:
>>> To Darklight,
>>>
>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy something
>>> local. My only other option is to buy from a online source. The
>>> prices are or seem to be better (online). But your correct about the
>>> risk factor. I can't find a local seller or computer shop with this
>>> item I am looking for. Thanks for everyone's help.
>
>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store price. It's
>> hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class, that work. People
>> retian laptops longer than desktops
>
>That is VERY arguable.
>
>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
>> gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.
>
>In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
>no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
>be cheaper than replacing just the battery.


That is VERY arguable, but the sentiment is partially true.
It's usually far cheaper to buy a new battery BUT the
battery is expensive enough to make people think about just
replacing whole laptop at that point.

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>> Breck Fontaine wrote

>>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy
>>>> something local. My only other option is to buy from a online
>>>> source. The prices are or seem to be better (online). But your
>>>> correct about the risk factor. I can't find a local seller or
>>>> computer shop with this item I am looking for. Thanks for
>>>> everyone's help.

>>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store
>>> price. It's hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class,
>>> that work. People retian laptops longer than desktops

>> That is VERY arguable.

>>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
>>> gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.

>> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
>> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
>> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.

> That is VERY arguable, but the sentiment is partially true.
> It's usually far cheaper to buy a new battery

Not necessarily, particularly with the low end laptops and
those who prefer to only use the manufacturer's batterys.

> BUT the battery is expensive enough to make people
> think about just replacing whole laptop at that point.

Which is what I said in different words.

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 05:22:09 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:

>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>>> Breck Fontaine wrote
>
>>>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy
>>>>> something local. My only other option is to buy from a online
>>>>> source. The prices are or seem to be better (online). But your
>>>>> correct about the risk factor. I can't find a local seller or
>>>>> computer shop with this item I am looking for. Thanks for
>>>>> everyone's help.
>
>>>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store
>>>> price. It's hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class,
>>>> that work. People retian laptops longer than desktops
>
>>> That is VERY arguable.
>
>>>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
>>>> gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.
>
>>> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
>>> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
>>> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.
>
>> That is VERY arguable, but the sentiment is partially true.
>> It's usually far cheaper to buy a new battery
>
>Not necessarily, particularly with the low end laptops and
>those who prefer to only use the manufacturer's batterys.

Oh?

Supposing a low end laptop, do you know of any costing under
$250 unless it's one of those special 3rd world
laptops-for-kids projects?

I think not, but that those "manufacturer's batteries" are
well under $250, usually closer to $100 unless you want the
higher capacity upgrade pack, which is as much upgrading the
battery as replacing it, so we can ignore the additional
cost over the regular battery.



>
>> BUT the battery is expensive enough to make people
>> think about just replacing whole laptop at that point.
>
>Which is what I said in different words.
>


Not quite, you imply the battery costs a lot more than it
usually does. Out of curiosity I just went to Dell's site
and looked up the battery for a laptop that may need a
replacement soon, a Dell Inspiron 8100 battery is $124.
While that is steep enough I'd be tempted to find a good
aftermarket battery instead (which IIRC, ran about $60-80),
I'd more likely buy the battery and a large/fast new HDD
than replace the whole thing as for some uses the HDD is the
biggest bottleneck... and of course because it still runs
ok.

Rod Speed wrote:
> paulmd@efn.org wrote:
> > Breck Fontaine wrote:
> >> To Darklight,
> >>
> >> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy something
> >> local. My only other option is to buy from a online source. The
> >> prices are or seem to be better (online). But your correct about the
> >> risk factor. I can't find a local seller or computer shop with this
> >> item I am looking for. Thanks for everyone's help.
>
> > Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store price. It's
> > hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class, that work. People
> > retian laptops longer than desktops
>
> That is VERY arguable.
>
> > for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
> > gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.
>
> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.
>
What often happens, is they continue to run the laptop on AC power, and
never replace the battery. The less money they have, the more likely
this is to happen.

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>>>> Breck Fontaine wrote

>>>>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy
>>>>>> something local. My only other option is to buy from a online
>>>>>> source. The prices are or seem to be better (online). But your
>>>>>> correct about the risk factor. I can't find a local seller or
>>>>>> computer shop with this item I am looking for. Thanks for
>>>>>> everyone's help.

>>>>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store
>>>>> price. It's hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class,
>>>>> that work. People retian laptops longer than desktops

>>>> That is VERY arguable.

>>>>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't
>>>>> generally gaming machines, they still continue to suit their
>>>>> purpose longer.

>>>> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
>>>> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
>>>> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.

>>> That is VERY arguable, but the sentiment is partially true.
>>> It's usually far cheaper to buy a new battery

>> Not necessarily, particularly with the low end laptops and
>> those who prefer to only use the manufacturer's batterys.

> Oh?

Fraid so.

> Supposing a low end laptop, do you know of any costing under $250
> unless it's one of those special 3rd world laptops-for-kids projects?

Doesnt have to be that low if the buyer insists on the
replacement battery from the manufacturer of that laptop.

> I think not,

You did manage to get that bit right.

> but that those "manufacturer's batteries" are well under $250,

And even with those, those new low end laptop
has to be a lot lower than that to be 'far under'

> usually closer to $100 unless you
> want the higher capacity upgrade pack,

Or if thats what it always had and you want another of those.

> which is as much upgrading the battery as replacing it,

Not when its one of those that has worn out.

> so we can ignore the additional cost over the regular battery.

Not if it isnt the regular battery that has worn out.

>>> BUT the battery is expensive enough to make people
>>> think about just replacing whole laptop at that point.

>> Which is what I said in different words.

> Not quite,

Fraid so.

> you imply the battery costs a lot more than it usually does.

Like hell I ever did. All I implied is that while ever the replacement
battery from the laptop manufacturer is only say half the cost of
the replacement low end laptop, most have enough of a clue to
go for the laptop with the inevitably considerably better specs
than the one that the battery wore out in.

> Out of curiosity I just went to Dell's site and looked up the battery for a
> laptop that may need a replacement soon, a Dell Inspiron 8100 battery is $124.

The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

> While that is steep enough I'd be tempted to find a good
> aftermarket battery instead (which IIRC, ran about $60-80),

Irrelevant to those who will only use the manufacturer's batterys.

> I'd more likely buy the battery and a large/fast new HDD
> than replace the whole thing as for some uses the HDD is the
> biggest bottleneck... and of course because it still runs ok.

And plenty have enough of a clue to get a whole new laptop
with much better specs than the one its replacing, when the
whole new laptop is only say twice the price of the new battery.

Yes, that isnt necessarily the cheapest approach, but we werent
discussing that, we were discussing what most users actually do.

paulmd@efn.org wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>> Breck Fontaine wrote

>>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy
>>>> something local. My only other option is to buy from a online
>>>> source. The prices are or seem to be better (online). But your
>>>> correct about the risk factor. I can't find a local seller or
>>>> computer shop with this item I am looking for. Thanks for
>>>> everyone's help.

>>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store
>>> price. It's hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class,
>>> that work. People retian laptops longer than desktops

>> That is VERY arguable.

>>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
>>> gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.

>> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
>> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
>> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.

> What often happens, is they continue to run the
> laptop on AC power, and never replace the battery.

Not even possible if there isnt any mains power available.

> The less money they have, the more likely this is to happen.

Irrelevant to what the majority do.

The reality is that low end laptops particularly are now so
cheap that few bother to fart around once the battery will
no longer run it for an adequate time and just replace it.

Rod Speed wrote:
> paulmd@efn.org wrote
> > Rod Speed wrote
> >> paulmd@efn.org wrote
> >>> Breck Fontaine wrote
>
> >>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy
> >>>> something local. My only other option is to buy from a online
> >>>> source. The prices are or seem to be better (online). But your
> >>>> correct about the risk factor. I can't find a local seller or
> >>>> computer shop with this item I am looking for. Thanks for
> >>>> everyone's help.
>
> >>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store
> >>> price. It's hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class,
> >>> that work. People retian laptops longer than desktops
>
> >> That is VERY arguable.
>
> >>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
> >>> gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.
>
> >> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
> >> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
> >> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.
>
> > What often happens, is they continue to run the
> > laptop on AC power, and never replace the battery.
>
> Not even possible if there isnt any mains power available.

You *can* run a laptop sans battery. As long as there's external juice,
it works just fine.

>
> > The less money they have, the more likely this is to happen.
>
> Irrelevant to what the majority do.

The majorty of used laptops that come my way are very old indeed. Maybe
the people in your town have more money.
>
> The reality is that low end laptops particularly are now so
> cheap that few bother to fart around once the battery will
> no longer run it for an adequate time and just replace it.

Cheap is relative. The dirt cheapest Dell will STILL run $450, not
counting shipping. Toshiba won't talk to you for less that $550. Where
I come from, that's still a big hunk of cash. The machines that go at
these prices are decidedly short on RAM. Only 256MB.

Right now, what i see people giving up, (as coming in through my door)
are Pentium 2 and older for laptop (that still works). And most of the
p3s and newer need some form of repair before I'd dare to resell them.

For desktops, It's mostly p3s that still work, and the p4s that have
to be fixed.

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 13:23:00 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


<snip>

>Like hell I ever did. All I implied is that while ever the replacement
>battery from the laptop manufacturer is only say half the cost of
>the replacement low end laptop, most have enough of a clue to
>go for the laptop with the inevitably considerably better specs
>than the one that the battery wore out in.


Well we could "say half the cost", but it isn't really. I
was being overly generous with the $250, in actuality most
low-end laptops are nearer $400 if not slightly higher (else
you end up buying more memory at least, so there's still
slight addt'l cost).

So "IF" the user insists on the manufacturer battery, and
"IF" the manufacturer battery is unusually high priced, say
$160, then whole new laptop still cost 250% as much.

Now back towards reality, batteries are available for half
that, we don't have to go lower, skimming the bottom of the
barrel and risk a shady manufacturer.



>
>> Out of curiosity I just went to Dell's site and looked up the battery for a
>> laptop that may need a replacement soon, a Dell Inspiron 8100 battery is $124.
>
>The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

Or "real world example", "highly applicable since I have the
old beast". Would you care to go to Dell's site and enter a
different model #? I'll do it for you.........

We did an Inspiron, now a Latitude or two,

100L - $107
C500 - $125

How about a Precision M90? $135

Toshiba's prices look a little higher, average around $150
BUT that's still below the $160 I'd mentioned above.


>
>> While that is steep enough I'd be tempted to find a good
>> aftermarket battery instead (which IIRC, ran about $60-80),
>
>Irrelevant to those who will only use the manufacturer's batterys.

Relevant if they find the source of the manufacturer's
battery and cut out the middleman.



>
>> I'd more likely buy the battery and a large/fast new HDD
>> than replace the whole thing as for some uses the HDD is the
>> biggest bottleneck... and of course because it still runs ok.
>
>And plenty have enough of a clue to get a whole new laptop
>with much better specs than the one its replacing, when the
>whole new laptop is only say twice the price of the new battery.

If they need better specs, sure. That was obvious, and it's
not something someone would typically wait on to get the
last drops of juice out of their old battery.... and of
course, it is't ever "say twice the price" in reality.



>
>Yes, that isnt necessarily the cheapest approach, but we werent
>discussing that, we were discussing what most users actually do.

Yes, most users won't replace a working few years old laptop
(can't be TOO old, else the battery would've already been
too low remaining capacity to use before then) with one at
the absolute lowest end to try to reach that $400, not $250,
price-point.

How can we know? Where are all these laptops for sale?
There are some, but certainly not anywhere near the volume
being sold and we cannot assume they all broke and are thus
unsellable.

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> kony <spam@spam.com> wrote

>>>>> BUT the battery is expensive enough to make people
>>>>> think about just replacing whole laptop at that point.

>>>> Which is what I said in different words.

>>> Not quite,

>> Fraid so.

>>> you imply the battery costs a lot more than it usually does.

>> Like hell I ever did. All I implied is that while ever the replacement
>> battery from the laptop manufacturer is only say half the cost of
>> the replacement low end laptop, most have enough of a clue to
>> go for the laptop with the inevitably considerably better specs
>> than the one that the battery wore out in.

> Well we could "say half the cost", but it isn't really.

There is no nice tidy percentage.

> I was being overly generous with the $250, in actuality most low-end
> laptops are nearer $400 if not slightly higher (else you end up buying
> more memory at least, so there's still slight addt'l cost).

Not necessarily, depends on what you do with it. I chose to
leave it at the standard memory because that was all that it
needs for what I do on it and I prefer the longer time on battery.

> So "IF" the user insists on the manufacturer battery, and
> "IF" the manufacturer battery is unusually high priced, say
> $160, then whole new laptop still cost 250% as much.

And plenty will pay that when the new laptop will inevitably
have considerably better specs than the one it replaces.

> Now back towards reality, batteries are available for half that,

Plenty dont bother with other than the manufacturer's batterys.
Particularly when Li ion batterys are a significant fire risk, to
say nothing of what they can do to your lap if they catch fire.

> we don't have to go lower, skimming the bottom
> of the barrel and risk a shady manufacturer.

Sure, but plenty arent prepare to use other than the manufacturer's batterys.

>>> Out of curiosity I just went to Dell's site and looked
>>> up the battery for a laptop that may need a replacement
>>> soon, a Dell Inspiron 8100 battery is $124.

>> The technical term for that is 'pathetically inadequate sample'

> Or "real world example", "highly applicable since I
> have the old beast". Would you care to go to Dell's
> site and enter a different model #? I'll do it for you.........

> We did an Inspiron, now a Latitude or two,

> 100L - $107
> C500 - $125

> How about a Precision M90? $135

Still a pathetically inadequate sample and you are
dishonestly ignoring the high capacity batterys too.

> Toshiba's prices look a little higher, average around $150
> BUT that's still below the $160 I'd mentioned above.

And plenty will go for the new laptop and
the inevitably higher specs at those prices.

>>> While that is steep enough I'd be tempted to find a good
>>> aftermarket battery instead (which IIRC, ran about $60-80),

>> Irrelevant to those who will only use the manufacturer's batterys.

> Relevant if they find the source of the manufacturer's
> battery and cut out the middleman.

Not feasible for most to do and most dont even try.

What was being discussed is how long people
keep machines for, not what they can do instead.

>>> I'd more likely buy the battery and a large/fast new HDD
>>> than replace the whole thing as for some uses the HDD is the
>>> biggest bottleneck... and of course because it still runs ok.

>> And plenty have enough of a clue to get a whole new laptop
>> with much better specs than the one its replacing, when the
>> whole new laptop is only say twice the price of the new battery.

> If they need better specs, sure.

Few dont with laptops as even just the hard drive speed is
noticeably better than it was when they bought the first one.

> That was obvious, and it's not something someone would typically
> wait on to get the last drops of juice out of their old battery....
> and of course, it is't ever "say twice the price" in reality.

It can be.

>> Yes, that isnt necessarily the cheapest approach, but we werent
>> discussing that, we were discussing what most users actually do.

> Yes, most users won't replace a working few years old laptop
> (can't be TOO old, else the battery would've already been too low
> remaining capacity to use before then) with one at the absolute
> lowest end to try to reach that $400, not $250, price-point.

Plenty do now that the low end laptops are perfectly adequate for most use.

> How can we know? Where are all these laptops for sale?

Everywhere, including Walmart and Aldi type operations.

> There are some, but certainly not anywhere near the volume being
> sold and we cannot assume they all broke and are thus unsellable.

Thats just the price you have plucked out of your arse.

paulmd@efn.org wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>>>> Breck Fontaine wrote

>>>>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy
>>>>>> something local. My only other option is to buy from a online
>>>>>> source. The prices are or seem to be better (online). But your
>>>>>> correct about the risk factor. I can't find a local seller or computer
>>>>>> shop with this item I am looking for. Thanks for everyone's help.

>>>>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store
>>>>> price. It's hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class,
>>>>> that work. People retian laptops longer than desktops

>>>> That is VERY arguable.

>>>>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't generally
>>>>> gaming machines, they still continue to suit their purpose longer.

>>>> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
>>>> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
>>>> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.

>>> What often happens, is they continue to run the
>>> laptop on AC power, and never replace the battery.

>> Not even possible if there isnt any mains power available.

> You *can* run a laptop sans battery. As
> long as there's external juice, it works just fine.

Not if there isnt any mains power available.

>>> The less money they have, the more likely this is to happen.

>> Irrelevant to what the majority do.

> The majorty of used laptops that come my way are very old indeed.

You need to get out more, most obviously
with ex lease laptops and those sold on ebay.

> Maybe the people in your town have more money.

Nope.

>> The reality is that low end laptops particularly are now so
>> cheap that few bother to fart around once the battery will
>> no longer run it for an adequate time and just replace it.

> Cheap is relative. The dirt cheapest Dell will STILL run $450, not
> counting shipping. Toshiba won't talk to you for less that $550.

There's plenty of those for lower than that with the best prices available.

> Where I come from, that's still a big hunk of cash.

It isnt for the bulk of most modern first world countrys.

> The machines that go at these prices
> are decidedly short on RAM. Only 256MB.

Thats fine for what plenty do on their laptops.

> Right now, what i see people giving up, (as coming in through my door)
> are Pentium 2 and older for laptop (that still works). And most of the
> p3s and newer need some form of repair before I'd dare to resell them.

Which is why most dont just replace the battery.

> For desktops, It's mostly p3s that still work, and the p4s that have to be fixed.

Its a tiny subset of what is in use out there.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>>>>>> Breck Fontaine wrote
>
>>>>>>> There is a 30 day warranty on the laptop. It is hard to buy
>>>>>>> something local. My only other option is to buy from a online
>>>>>>> source. The prices are or seem to be better (online). But your
>>>>>>> correct about the risk factor. I can't find a local seller or
>>>>>>> computer shop with this item I am looking for. Thanks for
>>>>>>> everyone's help.
>
>>>>>> Don't forget shipping when comparing online price vs store
>>>>>> price. It's hard to find used laptops in the upper p3 class,
>>>>>> that work. People retian laptops longer than desktops
>
>>>>> That is VERY arguable.
>
>>>>>> for 2 reasons: the initial cost, and since laptops aren't
>>>>>> generally gaming machines, they still continue to suit their
>>>>>> purpose longer.
>
>>>>> In reality plenty of laptops are discarded because the battery
>>>>> no long has a decent storage capacity and a replacement can
>>>>> be cheaper than replacing just the battery.
>
>>>> What often happens, is they continue to run the
>>>> laptop on AC power, and never replace the battery.
>
>>> Not even possible if there isnt any mains power available.
>
>> You *can* run a laptop sans battery. As
>> long as there's external juice, it works just fine.
>
> Not if there isnt any mains power available.
>
>>>> The less money they have, the more likely this is to happen.
>
>>> Irrelevant to what the majority do.
>
>> The majorty of used laptops that come my way are very old indeed.
>
> You need to get out more, most obviously
> with ex lease laptops and those sold on ebay.
>
>> Maybe the people in your town have more money.
>
> Nope.
>
>>> The reality is that low end laptops particularly are now so
>>> cheap that few bother to fart around once the battery will
>>> no longer run it for an adequate time and just replace it.
>
>> Cheap is relative. The dirt cheapest Dell will STILL run $450, not
>> counting shipping. Toshiba won't talk to you for less that $550.
>
> There's plenty of those for lower than that with the best prices
> available.
>> Where I come from, that's still a big hunk of cash.
>
> It isnt for the bulk of most modern first world countrys.
>
>> The machines that go at these prices
>> are decidedly short on RAM. Only 256MB.

> Thats fine for what plenty do on their laptops.

>> Right now, what i see people giving up, (as coming in through my door) are Pentium 2
>> and older for laptop (that still works). And most of the p3s and newer need some form
>> of repair before I'd dare to resell them.

> Which is why most dont just replace the battery.

And you obviously dont see the laptops that
are discarded when they are replaced either.

>> For desktops, It's mostly p3s that still work, and the p4s that have to be fixed.

> Its a tiny subset of what is in use out there.

> And you obviously dont see the laptops that
> are discarded when they are replaced either.

Now those I DO see. I work at a nonprofit computer recycling center. I
see those every day. Living and dead, and every stage inbetween. Day
in, day out. Some of our favorite people scavenge the dumpsters, by the
university, when the college kids leave for the summer, and many other
dumpsters beside. I KNOW what people discard in the way of equipment.

A typical donation comes in 3 main flavors.

(1) Obsolete or Arcane. This isnt a major problem, there's always ebay,
and materials recovery. There's a market for it.

(2) 5 years old or so. These are meat and drink, they mostly still
work. These are a typically re-gifted, after being wiped, upgarded, and
a new copy of Windows 2000 installed. A lot of these are resold, too.

(3) New and dead. Half can be revived, the rest is parts for the other
half. The survivors are mostly resold at our thrift store (like
goodwill, for electronics) to keep the lights on, and the rent paid. We
are located in a low-income part of town, our customers would otherwise
never be able to afford a computer.

We survive entirely on donations. We can't buy product from people or
we would get higher end stuff, but we can't. It goes against the grain
of being a community supported orginization.


>
> >> For desktops, It's mostly p3s that still work, and the p4s that have to be fixed.
>
> > Its a tiny subset of what is in use out there.

It's a very typical subset of what I see. Few people toss a perfectly
good P4.

paulmd@efn.org wrote


>>> Right now, what i see people giving up, (as coming in
>>> through my door) are Pentium 2 and older for laptop
>>> (that still works). And most of the p3s and newer need
>>> some form of repair before I'd dare to resell them.

Which is why they got discarded. The ones that got discarded
and are still viable mains powered you clearly wouldnt see.

>> Which is why most dont just replace the battery.

>> And you obviously dont see the laptops that
>> are discarded when they are replaced either.

> Now those I DO see.

No you dont, you only ever see a tiny subset of them.

> I work at a nonprofit computer recycling center. I see those every
> day. Living and dead, and every stage inbetween. Day in, day out.

And you never ever see FAR more of the discarded.

> Some of our favorite people scavenge the dumpsters, by the university,
> when the college kids leave for the summer, and many other dumpsters
> beside. I KNOW what people discard in the way of equipment.

No you dont, you only ever see a tiny subset of those that get discarded.

> A typical donation comes in 3 main flavors.

> (1) Obsolete or Arcane. This isnt a major problem, there's
> always ebay, and materials recovery. There's a market for it.

> (2) 5 years old or so. These are meat and drink, they mostly still work.
> These are a typically re-gifted, after being wiped, upgarded, and a new
> copy of Windows 2000 installed. A lot of these are resold, too.

> (3) New and dead. Half can be revived, the rest is parts for the
> other half. The survivors are mostly resold at our thrift store (like
> goodwill, for electronics) to keep the lights on, and the rent paid.
> We are located in a low-income part of town, our customers
> would otherwise never be able to afford a computer.

Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
get discarded instead of having the battery replaced.

> We survive entirely on donations. We can't buy product from
> people or we would get higher end stuff, but we can't. It goes
> against the grain of being a community supported orginization.

Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
get discarded instead of having the battery replaced.

>>>> For desktops, It's mostly p3s that still
>>>> work, and the p4s that have to be fixed.

>>> Its a tiny subset of what is in use out there.

> It's a very typical subset of what I see.

What you see is a tiny subset of what is out there.

> Few people toss a perfectly good P4.

Duh. Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
replace a laptop instead of replacing just the battery.

Rod Speed wrote:
> paulmd@efn.org wrote
>
>
> >>> Right now, what i see people giving up, (as coming in
> >>> through my door) are Pentium 2 and older for laptop
> >>> (that still works). And most of the p3s and newer need
> >>> some form of repair before I'd dare to resell them.
>
> Which is why they got discarded. The ones that got discarded
> and are still viable mains powered you clearly wouldnt see.

A large percentage of the laptops I see *do* have working batteries.
>
> >> Which is why most dont just replace the battery.
>
> >> And you obviously dont see the laptops that
> >> are discarded when they are replaced either.
>
> > Now those I DO see.
>
> No you dont, you only ever see a tiny subset of them.
>
> > I work at a nonprofit computer recycling center. I see those every
> > day. Living and dead, and every stage inbetween. Day in, day out.
>
> And you never ever see FAR more of the discarded.
>
> > Some of our favorite people scavenge the dumpsters, by the university,
> > when the college kids leave for the summer, and many other dumpsters
> > beside. I KNOW what people discard in the way of equipment.
>
> No you dont, you only ever see a tiny subset of those that get discarded.

IT's a representave sample.


> Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
> get discarded instead of having the battery replaced.

If the battery is dead, it typically died long ago. A few are discarded
just beacuse of dead battery, but not a huge percentage.

>
> > We survive entirely on donations. We can't buy product from
> > people or we would get higher end stuff, but we can't. It goes
> > against the grain of being a community supported orginization.
>
> Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
> get discarded instead of having the battery replaced.
>

ibid.


>
> What you see is a tiny subset of what is out there.

ibid.
>
> > Few people toss a perfectly good P4.
>
> Duh. Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
> replace a laptop instead of replacing just the battery.

ibid.

paulmd@efn.org wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> paulmd@efn.org wrote

>>>>> Right now, what i see people giving up, (as coming in
>>>>> through my door) are Pentium 2 and older for laptop
>>>>> (that still works). And most of the p3s and newer need
>>>>> some form of repair before I'd dare to resell them.

>> Which is why they got discarded. The ones that got discarded
>> and are still viable mains powered you clearly wouldnt see.

> A large percentage of the laptops I see *do* have working batteries.

Working and a decent time on the battery are two entirely different matters.

And like I said, what you see is a very atypical subset of the laptops out there.

>>>> Which is why most dont just replace the battery.

>>>> And you obviously dont see the laptops that
>>>> are discarded when they are replaced either.

>>> Now those I DO see.

>> No you dont, you only ever see a tiny subset of them.

>>> I work at a nonprofit computer recycling center. I see those every
>>> day. Living and dead, and every stage inbetween. Day in, day out.

>> And you never ever see FAR more of the discarded.

>>> Some of our favorite people scavenge the dumpsters, by the university,
>>> when the college kids leave for the summer, and many other dumpsters
>>> beside. I KNOW what people discard in the way of equipment.

>> No you dont, you only ever see a tiny subset of those that get discarded.

> IT's a representave sample.

You dont know that. And its unlikely give what you say at the top.

>> Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
>> get discarded instead of having the battery replaced.

> If the battery is dead, it typically died long ago.

You dont know that either, and what matters with
most laptops isnt whether the battery is dead or not,
its whether its still got a decent time on the battery.

> A few are discarded just beacuse of
> dead battery, but not a huge percentage.

See above.

And you likely dont see most of the ones that do get discarded
because of a useless battery, because most are likely still usable
on the mains even if that isnt adequate for the original owner who
chooses to give it to someone who can use it on the mains.

>>> We survive entirely on donations. We can't buy product from
>>> people or we would get higher end stuff, but we can't. It goes
>>> against the grain of being a community supported orginization.

>> Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
>> get discarded instead of having the battery replaced.

> ibid.

>> What you see is a tiny subset of what is out there.

> ibid.

>>> Few people toss a perfectly good P4.

>> Duh. Irrelevant to what was being discussed, how many
>> replace a laptop instead of replacing just the battery.

> ibid.

Just chanting ibid cuts no mustard.

And have fun explaining why the sales of laptops is MUCH higher
than the sales of replacement batterys. There cant be that many
using a laptop for the first time now, and those who do use laptops
have usually gone thru quite a few more than they have with desktops,
essentially because laptops arent as economically repairable as desktops.

On Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:16:38 +1000, "Rod Speed"
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:


>And have fun explaining why the sales of laptops is MUCH higher
>than the sales of replacement batterys.

Is it? Maybe but this has yet to be established.

>There cant be that many
>using a laptop for the first time now,

That seems as likely as any other factor, I know quite a few
people with only a desktop, or that waited till the recent
plunge in laptop prices (or rather, that you can now get a
laptop for cheap that has enough muscle to do all the
typical things without longer wait time on WinXP) made them
more desirable.


>and those who do use laptops
>have usually gone thru quite a few more than they have with desktops,
>essentially because laptops arent as economically repairable as desktops.

There are companies that primarily sell laptop batteries,
and are able to do so because they cost less than the OEM
replacement battery. Perhaps _you_ would only consider
either the OEM battery or a brand new laptop, but many
others obviously choose the aftermarket battery... and I
would too, there's no point in throwing away a perfectly
working P3 or newer class laptop simply because the
replacement battery would cost $80... I'd sell it first then
the buyer would buy the replacement battery (since few
people buy a laptop to have it only usable tethered to the
wall).

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote

>> And have fun explaining why the sales of laptops is
>> MUCH