Long hard drive access times...

#1 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 04:48 PM

Hi. Twice today one of my older drives, a Maxtor 80GB 7200RPM
Diamondmax Plus 9 hard drive took about 15 seconds to read/write data.
This is the first time it has taken so long to access data.

The first time was when I was saving a spreadsheet to it. Excel stopped
responding for about 15 seconds, then everything went back to normal.

The second time happened at the Command Prompt, I was doing a "dir" and
it also froze for a while.

Should I start making a recent backup of my data right now?

I've downloaded the Powermax bootable ISO and will run a diagnostic
tonight...

Incidentally this is a replacement drive for a previous 80GB Maxtor,
which died due to SMART failure and the 'click of death'...

If it got replaced about 2 years ago will my warranty still be valid?

#2 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 06:01 PM

On 1 Aug 2005 09:48:32 -0700, "Random Person"
<nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi. Twice today one of my older drives, a Maxtor 80GB 7200RPM
>Diamondmax Plus 9 hard drive took about 15 seconds to read/write data.
>This is the first time it has taken so long to access data.
>
>The first time was when I was saving a spreadsheet to it. Excel stopped
>responding for about 15 seconds, then everything went back to normal.
>
>The second time happened at the Command Prompt, I was doing a "dir" and
>it also froze for a while.
>
>Should I start making a recent backup of my data right now?
>
>I've downloaded the Powermax bootable ISO and will run a diagnostic
>tonight...
>
>Incidentally this is a replacement drive for a previous 80GB Maxtor,
>which died due to SMART failure and the 'click of death'...
>
>If it got replaced about 2 years ago will my warranty still be valid?

Depends on how long your warranty is. Who knows you may be buying a
bad model or doing something weird like not running it cool enough. Of
course theres going to be the usual - its maxtor thats why. And
frankly like I said , I personally havent had any maxtors fail in an
unusually short time yet. My WD was a bit flakey clicking right after
I got it but after doing a low level format its actually been fine.
Also 2 years is a fair amount of time. I expect them to last for a
while but 2 years isnt super short. I have a 6 gig maxtor I still
have that runs and that must be eons old. I have it sitting around
but hook it up once in while when I need a clean WIN XP PRO install to
test. Actually I have neighbors and friends Ive installed mostly
Maxtors cause thats what they sold at COMPUSA on sale and they range
from 40gigs-80 gig and some are 1-4 yrs old and and believe it or not
, none of them have died. Ive taken ancient ones out of PCs ---
different makes , I scavenged from PCs thrown away I used on builds I
made for some not very well off people and they all run too ! I think
the one in a neighbors came from his original PC though he has a newer
one too - but thats about 3 yrs old and the other is ancient , a
maxtor. Only one HD actually became unfunctional that was a WD 80 gig
but it spins. Im still convinced it was locked somehow though I could
be way off base.

Sure I would back it up and run diag. Who knows though it could be
anything. When I had a bad stick of mem my PC ran really weird. Also
some companies give refurbs as replacements so it may not have been as
good as new. All my WDs and maxtors have a 1 year warranty nowadays.
Only my seagate has 5.

#3 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 07:08 PM

On 1 Aug 2005 09:48:32 -0700, "Random Person"
<nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi. Twice today one of my older drives, a Maxtor 80GB 7200RPM
>Diamondmax Plus 9 hard drive took about 15 seconds to read/write data.
>This is the first time it has taken so long to access data.

Check your Windows Event Viewer logs.
Check drive power connector, and both ends of the cables.
Replace the cable if you have a spare, or at least make sure
it's pugged in good.

>
>The first time was when I was saving a spreadsheet to it. Excel stopped
>responding for about 15 seconds, then everything went back to normal.
>
>The second time happened at the Command Prompt, I was doing a "dir" and
>it also froze for a while.
>
>Should I start making a recent backup of my data right now?

Yes that would be good, better safe than sorry.

>
>I've downloaded the Powermax bootable ISO and will run a diagnostic
>tonight...

Best to make the backup first, before ANY further use of the
system. A failure can get worse slowly or rather quickly.
One should always treat their drive use as if it's the last
file they'll ever be able to copy off, once there's an
observed problem.

>
>Incidentally this is a replacement drive for a previous 80GB Maxtor,
>which died due to SMART failure and the 'click of death'...
>
>If it got replaced about 2 years ago will my warranty still be valid?

Their drives have a 1 year warranty on most versions.
I think your drives are overheating, and they shouldn't have
been ran like that at all.

Realize that just because somone makes a case in any
particular configuration, that doesn't make the case fit for
use. Perhaps more fit with old/slow low-heat parts but even
on an old system the case you pictured previously wouldn't
be good for cooling.

You don't meniton your power supply but if it's less than
~400W (Antec?) then it's probably not sufficient for the
parts you listed.

#4 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 07:28 PM

Hmm....it seems it has been going on for a few days. The Event Viewer
Logs show both errors and warnings coming up.

-----------------
Event Type: Error
Event Source: Disk
Event Category: None
Event ID: 11
Date: 04/07/2005
Time: 10:27:25
User: N/A
Computer: WORK
Description:
The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Harddisk3\D.

Event Type: Warning
Event Source: Disk
Event Category: None
Event ID: 51
Date: 01/08/2005
Time: 14:26:47
User: N/A
Computer: WORK
Description:
An error was detected on device \Device\Harddisk3\D during a paging
operation.
--------------------

Warning 01/08/2005 17:33:03 disk None 51 N/A WORK
Warning 01/08/2005 17:32:22 disk None 51 N/A WORK
Warning 01/08/2005 14:27:28 disk None 51 N/A WORK
Warning 01/08/2005 14:26:47 disk None 51 N/A WORK
Error 24/07/2005 12:26:31 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 24/07/2005 12:26:31 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 24/07/2005 12:26:30 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 24/07/2005 12:26:30 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 24/07/2005 12:26:29 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 24/07/2005 12:26:28 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 21/07/2005 09:03:02 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 21/07/2005 09:03:02 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 21/07/2005 09:03:02 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 21/07/2005 09:03:01 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 21/07/2005 09:03:01 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 21/07/2005 08:39:02 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 19/07/2005 18:19:35 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 19/07/2005 18:19:34 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 19/07/2005 18:19:34 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 19/07/2005 18:19:34 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 19/07/2005 18:19:34 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 19/07/2005 18:19:33 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:35 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:35 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:34 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:34 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:33 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:21 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:20 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:20 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:19 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:19 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:18 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 17/07/2005 05:23:17 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 12/07/2005 10:01:26 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 12/07/2005 10:01:26 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 12/07/2005 10:01:26 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 05/07/2005 11:06:14 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 05/07/2005 11:06:14 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 05/07/2005 11:04:00 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 05/07/2005 11:03:59 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 05/07/2005 11:03:59 disk None 11 N/A WORK
Error 04/07/2005 10:27:25 disk None 11 N/A WORK

#5 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 07:35 PM

"I think your drives are overheating, and they shouldn't have
been ran like that at all."

Are there any tools for me to detect my HD temperature? I have 2
IBM/Hitachi 120GB HDDs, 1 Maxtor 80GB HDD and 1 Seagate 160GB HDD.
Would there be any temperature tools for any of the brands?

"You don't meniton your power supply but if it's less than ~400W
(Antec?) then it's probably not sufficient for the parts you listed."

I have an Antec Truepower 350W PSU. My computer is a:
AMD XP 2500+ "Barton"
Abit NF-7 mobo
SB Audigy
Radeon 9800 Pro
4 HDDs (2 in Primary IDE channel, 2 via a Silicon Image ATA/133
controller card)
2 ODDs (1 DVD+/-RW, 1 CD-RW)
3 added 80cm fans.

Current board temperature is 33'C, CPU temp 49'C. I understand your
point about changing the case but I'd like to avoid that if possible (I
just bought 3 fans, after all). It is a major hassle swapping cases...

Thanks.

#6 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 08:12 PM

OMG, I don't believe it. I entered my drive's serial number at Maxtor's
website and I found out my warranty expired midnight yesterday!

I'm still running the diagnostic tool I downloaded from Maxtor (no
errors with the quick scan).

Do you think I can convince Maxtor to RMA the drive (Assuming there is
something wrong with it) on the basis that the errors started appearing
in July?

Random Person wrote:
> Hi. Twice today one of my older drives, a Maxtor 80GB 7200RPM
> Diamondmax Plus 9 hard drive took about 15 seconds to read/write data.
> This is the first time it has taken so long to access data.
>
> The first time was when I was saving a spreadsheet to it. Excel stopped
> responding for about 15 seconds, then everything went back to normal.
>
> The second time happened at the Command Prompt, I was doing a "dir" and
> it also froze for a while.
>
> Should I start making a recent backup of my data right now?
>
> I've downloaded the Powermax bootable ISO and will run a diagnostic
> tonight...
>
> Incidentally this is a replacement drive for a previous 80GB Maxtor,
> which died due to SMART failure and the 'click of death'...
>
> If it got replaced about 2 years ago will my warranty still be valid?

#7 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 08:40 PM

On 1 Aug 2005 12:28:19 -0700, "Random Person"
<nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Hmm....it seems it has been going on for a few days. The Event Viewer
>Logs show ...

<snip>

>Date: 01/08/2005

A "few" days?

It is good to periodically check those logs even if you
don't (know) of any problems.

#8 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 08:47 PM

On 1 Aug 2005 12:35:09 -0700, "Random Person"
<nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>"I think your drives are overheating, and they shouldn't have
>been ran like that at all."
>
>Are there any tools for me to detect my HD temperature? I have 2
>IBM/Hitachi 120GB HDDs, 1 Maxtor 80GB HDD and 1 Seagate 160GB HDD.
>Would there be any temperature tools for any of the brands?

Google?

Feel the drives with your hands- if it feels hot it is hot.

>
>"You don't meniton your power supply but if it's less than ~400W
>(Antec?) then it's probably not sufficient for the parts you listed."
>
>I have an Antec Truepower 350W PSU. My computer is a:
>AMD XP 2500+ "Barton"
>Abit NF-7 mobo
>SB Audigy
>Radeon 9800 Pro
>4 HDDs (2 in Primary IDE channel, 2 via a Silicon Image ATA/133
>controller card)
>2 ODDs (1 DVD+/-RW, 1 CD-RW)
>3 added 80cm fans.

Measure voltages under full load (like 3Dmark 2003 looping).
Your PSU is marginal for the parts. Having the (relatively)
lower-powered Barton will help (unless you're overclocking
it, and raising voltage), but not as much as the Radeon 9800
Pro and the drives take away. It "could" be sufficient
for the system though, I'd consider it questionable and
borderline, not yet a known problem. Measure voltages,
preferribly with a multimeter at each (load), at the power
connectors to each part.

>
>Current board temperature is 33'C, CPU temp 49'C. I understand your
>point about changing the case but I'd like to avoid that if possible (I
>just bought 3 fans, after all). It is a major hassle swapping cases...

Buying 3 fans doesn't necessarily move air past the drives
much. That one drive next to the bottom front fan may be
cooler running than the rest but overall it isn't suitable.
The bottom front fan will typically reduce flow past the
drive in the top of the drive rack too.

The best arrangement will have a case front (metal) wall
with very open areas in front of the drive racks, and
nowhere else! Any other openings simply reduce the flow
past the drives. Likewise the plastic front bezel needs
have same or more intake area or it's even even worse flow
impedance. Indeed, two same-area intakes will reduce flow
more than if the front bezel weren't installed at all (if we
ignored any gaps further up on the case frame, which is
usually not the situation).

It's not a matter of hassle really, just that the case isn't
fit for the use. Hassle or not the case was poorly designed
and now you have a 2nd drive failure. Impossible to know
with 100% certainty that both failures would've been
prevented but there is a clear relationship between
overheating and failure.

#9 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 08:48 PM

On 1 Aug 2005 13:12:23 -0700, "Random Person"
<nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>OMG, I don't believe it. I entered my drive's serial number at Maxtor's
>website and I found out my warranty expired midnight yesterday!
>
>I'm still running the diagnostic tool I downloaded from Maxtor (no
>errors with the quick scan).
>
>Do you think I can convince Maxtor to RMA the drive (Assuming there is
>something wrong with it) on the basis that the errors started appearing
>in July?

All you can do is try... better now than after more time
passes.

#10 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 11:28 PM

I did a full scan with Maxtor's Powermax utility, and came up with no
errors. What should I do now? Just accept the warnings/errors in the
logs as "one offs"?

#11 (**permalink**) 08-01-2005, 11:49 PM

On 1 Aug 2005 16:28:57 -0700 As Androids Dreamed Of Electric Sheep and
then "Random Person" <nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote :

>I did a full scan with Maxtor's Powermax utility, and came up with no
>errors. What should I do now? Just accept the warnings/errors in the
>logs as "one offs"?

I'd suspect the software you are using.Do you have any,"MS office"
software installed?

what O/S?

--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html

#12 (**permalink**) 08-02-2005, 04:01 AM

I used Windows XP when the problems occurred. The drive is actually
partitioned 50-50 with the other half being SuSE 9.2

The problems happened with MS Office, but also from the command prompt
while I was doing a simple "dir".

Thanks.

#13 (**permalink**) 08-02-2005, 06:34 AM

In message <1122927143.375761.61000@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups. com>
"Random Person" <nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>OMG, I don't believe it. I entered my drive's serial number at Maxtor's
>website and I found out my warranty expired midnight yesterday!
>
>I'm still running the diagnostic tool I downloaded from Maxtor (no
>errors with the quick scan).
>
>Do you think I can convince Maxtor to RMA the drive (Assuming there is
>something wrong with it) on the basis that the errors started appearing
>in July?

If you have a receipt showing the date of purchase was later then their
website indicates then you should be good anyway.

Their expiry date is based on when the drive shipped and when it
"probably" sold, and helps you if you don't have a receipt.

--
'Outlook not so good.'
That magic 8-ball knows everything!

#14 (**permalink**) 08-02-2005, 10:49 PM

On 1 Aug 2005 21:01:02 -0700 As Androids Dreamed Of Electric Sheep and
then "Random Person" <nonexistent2032@yahoo.co.uk> wrote :

>I used Windows XP when the problems occurred. The drive is actually
>partitioned 50-50 with the other half being SuSE 9.2
>
>The problems happened with MS Office, but also from the command prompt
>while I was doing a simple "dir".
>
>Thanks.

This old but relevant and also disable your indexing on the hard
drives,
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=winxp+tips&meta=

************************************************** ***********************

This it taken from a post by a valued usenet contributor Aftech.

FindFast is a prog that indexes MS Office documents (reads them for
keywords, author and other parameters) with the general idea of making
Office docs easier to find and open. Unfortunately, FindFast is a
resource
hog that, while making Office apps slightly more efficient, destroys
the
efficiency of the rest of the system.

BTW, Microsoft Knowledge Base article #Q158705, says just taking
FindFast
out of the startup group is not sufficient. Since it was there indices
were
created and Office apps will continue to use them even though they
rapidly
become outdated. Below is the proper procedure as described by MS:

The correct way to disable Find Fast requires that you delete the Find
Fast
index files. To do this, use the following steps:

On the Start menu, point to Settings, and then click Control Panel.
In the Control Panel window, double-click Find Fast.
In the "Index for documents in and below" list, click the first item.
On the Index menu, click Delete Index. In the Delete Index dialog
box,click
OK.

When you are prompted whether to delete the index, Click OK.
Repeat steps 3 and 4 until no more indices are listed.
On the Index menu, click Close And Stop. Then, click OK to stop Find
Fast.

Then, do either of the following:

Remove the Microsoft Find Fast shortcut from the StartUp folder
(typically in the Windows folder in the Start Menu\Programs
folder).

-or-
- Run the Microsoft Office 97 Setup program in maintenance mode, and
remove Find Fast.

--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html