Intel Core duo E4500 2.2G
Asus P5GC MX/GBL--2G RAM
running XP sp2
Reliable old machine but recently the cursor would just freeze
randomly. During the freeze I notice that the HD spins continuously.
After a few seconds everything goes back to normal.
(Just found out that when it freezes it is not just the cursor, the
whole system freezes. But it recovers, all the typings are
"updated"---i.e. the machine remembers what I typed during the
freeze.)
On 10/25/2011 5:11 PM, ABC wrote:
> Intel Core duo E4500 2.2G
> Asus P5GC MX/GBL--2G RAM
> running XP sp2
>
> Reliable old machine but recently the cursor would just freeze
> randomly. During the freeze I notice that the HD spins continuously.
> After a few seconds everything goes back to normal.
>
> (Just found out that when it freezes it is not just the cursor, the
> whole system freezes. But it recovers, all the typings are
> "updated"---i.e. the machine remembers what I typed during the
> freeze.)
>
> any clue?
>
> ABC
Have you done the 'usual' stuff yet?
1) Physically cleaned out the accumulated crap out of all the heatsinks,
fans, nooks, crannies, etc? It's amazing how many pooter problems are
caused by this.
2) Removed and reseated all cards, memory sticks, and major cables a
couple of times?
Even if this didn't cure it (and it often cures the "random freeze"
problem), it's just good preventative maintenance.
--
"**** this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me mother****er?"
Jim “Dandy” Mangrum
ABC wrote:
> Intel Core duo E4500 2.2G
> Asus P5GC MX/GBL--2G RAM
> running XP sp2
>
> Reliable old machine but recently the cursor would just freeze
> randomly. During the freeze I notice that the HD spins continuously.
> After a few seconds everything goes back to normal.
>
> (Just found out that when it freezes it is not just the cursor, the
> whole system freezes. But it recovers, all the typings are
> "updated"---i.e. the machine remembers what I typed during the
> freeze.)
>
> any clue?
>
> ABC
If "all the typings are updated", then only the user interface
or a portion of the system is becoming non-responsive. It would
not be a total system freeze, as then, keyboard input would get lost.
When is the last time you checked your hard drive SMART statistics ?
SMART is an interface, that can warn of impending hard drive failure.
For a free tool to evaluate that, you can use the free version of
HDTune. Click the "Health" tab, to see the smart info. I tend to
use the "Current Pending Sector" indicator, where a good row of
numbers is "100 100 0 0". If the "Current Pending" statistic has
grown, it means the drive is in trouble.
Similarly, the manufacturer of the hard drive, provides diagnostic
programs for testing the hard drive. Those programs can also
check the SMART statistics and warn of impending failure.
At the very least, make sure you have an up-to-date backup of
the system, in case there is a new surprise very soon...
Like no boot at all...
On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:25:57 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrotd:
>If "all the typings are updated", then only the user interface
>or a portion of the system is becoming non-responsive. It would
>not be a total system freeze, as then, keyboard input would get lost.
>
>When is the last time you checked your hard drive SMART statistics ?
>SMART is an interface, that can warn of impending hard drive failure.
>For a free tool to evaluate that, you can use the free version of
>HDTune. Click the "Health" tab, to see the smart info. I tend to
>use the "Current Pending Sector" indicator, where a good row of
>numbers is "100 100 0 0". If the "Current Pending" statistic has
>grown, it means the drive is in trouble.
>
>http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
>
>Similarly, the manufacturer of the hard drive, provides diagnostic
>programs for testing the hard drive. Those programs can also
>check the SMART statistics and warn of impending failure.
>
>At the very least, make sure you have an up-to-date backup of
>the system, in case there is a new surprise very soon...
>Like no boot at all...
>
> Paul
Thanks. See this link for the Hdtune report of the system drive. What
does the yellow shade mean?
ABC wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:25:57 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrotd:
>
>> If "all the typings are updated", then only the user interface
>> or a portion of the system is becoming non-responsive. It would
>> not be a total system freeze, as then, keyboard input would get lost.
>>
>> When is the last time you checked your hard drive SMART statistics ?
>> SMART is an interface, that can warn of impending hard drive failure.
>> For a free tool to evaluate that, you can use the free version of
>> HDTune. Click the "Health" tab, to see the smart info. I tend to
>> use the "Current Pending Sector" indicator, where a good row of
>> numbers is "100 100 0 0". If the "Current Pending" statistic has
>> grown, it means the drive is in trouble.
>>
>> http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
>>
>> Similarly, the manufacturer of the hard drive, provides diagnostic
>> programs for testing the hard drive. Those programs can also
>> check the SMART statistics and warn of impending failure.
>>
>> At the very least, make sure you have an up-to-date backup of
>> the system, in case there is a new surprise very soon...
>> Like no boot at all...
>>
>> Paul
>
> Thanks. See this link for the Hdtune report of the system drive. What
> does the yellow shade mean?
>
> http://atm.cyberec.com/~hello/pictures/Clipboard01.jpg
>
> I used Hitachi's Disk Fitness Test. It was reported as a "defective
> device"---Excesive Shock.
>
> You reckon it is bad? I am still using it to type this posting.Of
> course there is already a backup using Acronis.
>
> ABC
I would replace it.
I replace disks before they have a chance to go bad, due to my track record.
I've lost two disks over the years, one a 2GB drive, the second
around 40GB. The 40GB one, perhaps I could have saved some of the
data on it, if I'd made a backup as soon as it indicated troubles.
But I shut down the computer and went to bed, and it was
dead on the first boot in the morning.
The 2GB one went rather nice in that, there was a giant "sproing"
sound from the drive housing as the drive was starting up. I didn't
need any diagnostics on that one :-( That was the head assembly
being ripped to shreds, while attempting to come down the landing ramp.
The old drives have a head lock, which unlocks with a "click" sound,
and I suspect it just didn't release.
*******
You have both reallocated sectors and you have a couple "current
pending". The current pending sectors, will be tested when the
next attempt is made to write to them. Seeing that number build
up, means some fresh bad sectors were detected recently while
reading the disk. I suppose it isn't a serious thing, in an absolute
sense, but it indicates the disk is going to fail, and it's just
a matter of when now. If the numbers were larger, I'd be
really concerned.
On my drives, I have a "yellow shading" on my Spin Retry Count,
but I've been seeing that on disks here, whether new or old. There
are only certain parameters I get alarmed about, because some
of them don't appear to be interpreted properly. There don't
seem to be good standards for these things.
*******
I've got one other story to share with you. I use Seagate drives
here, so I download and try the Seagate diagnostics. A couple
weeks ago, I downloaded "Seatools for Windows". It worked, in the
sense that it did do the basic tests I asked of it. I didn't have
a disk problem at the time, but was just testing the tool to see
what options it offered. Normally, I use the MSDOS version for
testing, but the MSDOS version doesn't work on my new motherboard.
So I decided, against better judgment, why not try the Windows one.
The fun began, on the next reboot, after my testing was done.
My USB optical drive disappeared. The Cypress controller chip in
it had a problem. After a little research, I discovered the EEPROM
connected to the Cypress had been erased. And it looks like Seatools
did it! Luckily, cypress.com has a recipe to repair it (and Startech,
the enclosure manufacturer, did not). I followed the Cypress recipe
and my USB enclosure controller chip is working again. What happens is,
the EEPROM is erased, and the enclosure no longer reports it is
USB Storage Class. Without that, the Microsoft driver won't load
in response. Even the BIOS couldn't "see" the optical drive. Once
the proper Class info is loaded into the EEPROM, it works again. I
woulda been shitting bricks, except I've heard of this before.
I thought I didn't have the affected chip, but damn if that isn't
what's in my enclosure :-) As they say, "good times"...
Um, if you had a Seagate drive, and happened to have a Cypress based
enclosure connected to the computer, unplug it before using Seatools :-)
That is the first time I've had a rotten surprise, from a diagnostic.
Since you're using Hitachi right now, that won't be a problem for you.
On 26/10/2011 12:31, Paul wrote:
> ABC wrote:
>> On Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:25:57 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrotd:
>>
>>> If "all the typings are updated", then only the user interface
>>> or a portion of the system is becoming non-responsive. It would
>>> not be a total system freeze, as then, keyboard input would get lost.
>>>
>>> When is the last time you checked your hard drive SMART statistics ?
>>> SMART is an interface, that can warn of impending hard drive failure.
>>> For a free tool to evaluate that, you can use the free version of
>>> HDTune. Click the "Health" tab, to see the smart info. I tend to
>>> use the "Current Pending Sector" indicator, where a good row of
>>> numbers is "100 100 0 0". If the "Current Pending" statistic has
>>> grown, it means the drive is in trouble.
>>>
>>> http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe
>>>
>>> Similarly, the manufacturer of the hard drive, provides diagnostic
>>> programs for testing the hard drive. Those programs can also
>>> check the SMART statistics and warn of impending failure.
>>>
>>> At the very least, make sure you have an up-to-date backup of
>>> the system, in case there is a new surprise very soon...
>>> Like no boot at all...
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Thanks. See this link for the Hdtune report of the system drive. What
>> does the yellow shade mean?
>>
>> http://atm.cyberec.com/~hello/pictures/Clipboard01.jpg
>>
>> I used Hitachi's Disk Fitness Test. It was reported as a "defective
>> device"---Excesive Shock.
>>
>> You reckon it is bad? I am still using it to type this posting.Of
>> course there is already a backup using Acronis.
>>
>> ABC
>
> I would replace it.
>
> I replace disks before they have a chance to go bad, due to my track record.
>
> I've lost two disks over the years, one a 2GB drive, the second
> around 40GB. The 40GB one, perhaps I could have saved some of the
> data on it, if I'd made a backup as soon as it indicated troubles.
> But I shut down the computer and went to bed, and it was
> dead on the first boot in the morning.
>
> The 2GB one went rather nice in that, there was a giant "sproing"
> sound from the drive housing as the drive was starting up. I didn't
> need any diagnostics on that one :-( That was the head assembly
> being ripped to shreds, while attempting to come down the landing ramp.
> The old drives have a head lock, which unlocks with a "click" sound,
> and I suspect it just didn't release.
>
> *******
>
> You have both reallocated sectors and you have a couple "current
> pending". The current pending sectors, will be tested when the
> next attempt is made to write to them. Seeing that number build
> up, means some fresh bad sectors were detected recently while
> reading the disk. I suppose it isn't a serious thing, in an absolute
> sense, but it indicates the disk is going to fail, and it's just
> a matter of when now. If the numbers were larger, I'd be
> really concerned.
>
> On my drives, I have a "yellow shading" on my Spin Retry Count,
> but I've been seeing that on disks here, whether new or old. There
> are only certain parameters I get alarmed about, because some
> of them don't appear to be interpreted properly. There don't
> seem to be good standards for these things.
>
> *******
>
> I've got one other story to share with you. I use Seagate drives
> here, so I download and try the Seagate diagnostics. A couple
> weeks ago, I downloaded "Seatools for Windows". It worked, in the
> sense that it did do the basic tests I asked of it. I didn't have
> a disk problem at the time, but was just testing the tool to see
> what options it offered. Normally, I use the MSDOS version for
> testing, but the MSDOS version doesn't work on my new motherboard.
> So I decided, against better judgment, why not try the Windows one.
>
> The fun began, on the next reboot, after my testing was done.
> My USB optical drive disappeared. The Cypress controller chip in
> it had a problem. After a little research, I discovered the EEPROM
> connected to the Cypress had been erased. And it looks like Seatools
> did it! Luckily, cypress.com has a recipe to repair it (and Startech,
> the enclosure manufacturer, did not). I followed the Cypress recipe
> and my USB enclosure controller chip is working again. What happens is,
> the EEPROM is erased, and the enclosure no longer reports it is
> USB Storage Class. Without that, the Microsoft driver won't load
> in response. Even the BIOS couldn't "see" the optical drive. Once
> the proper Class info is loaded into the EEPROM, it works again. I
> woulda been shitting bricks, except I've heard of this before.
> I thought I didn't have the affected chip, but damn if that isn't
> what's in my enclosure :-) As they say, "good times"...
>
> Um, if you had a Seagate drive, and happened to have a Cypress based
> enclosure connected to the computer, unplug it before using Seatools :-)
> That is the first time I've had a rotten surprise, from a diagnostic.
>
> Since you're using Hitachi right now, that won't be a problem for you.
>
> Paul
Thanks for the heads-up on Seatools for Windows! Like you, I normally
use the DOS/bootCD version but if it doesn't work on a particular mobo,
I will certainly now avoid trying the Win version..
At least Hitachis's DFT works with non-Hitachi drives, so while perhaps
not ideal for testing a Seagate (would it interpret SMART properly, ie
do all drive manu's have their own interpretation of SMART data?) it
should be better than nothing when seatools for DOS won't run (I also
use HDtune.)
Cheers,
--
Rob
>
> Thanks for the heads-up on Seatools for Windows! Like you, I normally
> use the DOS/bootCD version but if it doesn't work on a particular mobo,
> I will certainly now avoid trying the Win version..
> At least Hitachis's DFT works with non-Hitachi drives, so while perhaps
> not ideal for testing a Seagate (would it interpret SMART properly, ie
> do all drive manu's have their own interpretation of SMART data?) it
> should be better than nothing when seatools for DOS won't run (I also
> use HDtune.)
> Cheers,
Well, the only harm would be to the enclosure holding the drive.
The Seatools for Windows includes the ability to access USB enclosure
based drives, while apparently the MSDOS version doesn't.
Now, if you actually needed to test a Seagate, inside a Cypress based
enclosure, I'd think twice about doing that. As long as the recipe is
available on the cypress.com site, to reload the EEPROM, it's not a big
deal. I found one other posting, where the author of the post didn't
put 2+2 together, but once I read that post, that kinda provided the
"cement" for what I was seeing. (He mentioned using Seatools, and then
the next day, had a problem.)
I didn't try it a second time, to verify :-) Call me lazy...
I don't want to discover how many write cycles it's rated for.
Back when I first heard about this problem, there wasn't
a cause known at the time. Just that the EEPROM was
getting erased. Now, a question for the geniuses who set this
up would be, why is the damn EEPROM not write protected ?
Surely they could load it, then cut a strap at the
factory to protect it from overwrite. The procedure I used to fix
it, is similar to how they would load it at the factory. The only
question is, why they didn't come up with a way to protect the
EEPROM after loading it. There must be a way... It's not like
the definition loaded in there, needs to be changed or anything.
They could even have used an OTP (one time programmable), as that
would prevent writing to it a second time.
*******
For anyone else who runs into this, this is an example of the solution
to the problem.
Replaced with a new 500G Seagate. All is well and in fact running
faster. The only complaint is that they do not sell smaller drive
anymore. I do not need 500G.
I have picked up bad HD from almost any brand ,except WD. Do you think
WD is actually better?
ABC wrote:
> Done.
>
> Replaced with a new 500G Seagate. All is well and in fact running
> faster. The only complaint is that they do not sell smaller drive
> anymore. I do not need 500G.
>
>
> I have picked up bad HD from almost any brand ,except WD. Do you think
> WD is actually better?
>
> ABC
Check hard drive reviews on Newegg. You can compare brand performance
that way. It's better than no statistics at all. Both brands have failures.
*******
As for the new drives, the only problem with them, is the usage of
4KB sectors internally. This can have some annoying side effects,
which you may discover at some point. If you see transfer rate
anomalies, they may be related to 4KB sectors with 512 byte emulation.
"In order to maintain compatibility with legacy computing components,
many hard disk drive suppliers will support Advanced Format
technologies on the recording media coupled with 512-byte conversion
firmware. Hard drives configured with 4096-byte physical sectors with
512-byte firmware are referred to as Advanced Format 512e, or
512 emulation drives."
Note that, the advertising material for a drive, will never admit to
what's inside. For example, have you ever seen this logo in practice ?
I can't say I've seen it. Only the "fine print", may hint at it. And
after the 4KB Advanced Format launch, this concept has "gone underground",
hidden from view as best as possible. That's how I ended up with three
crappy 500GB disks :-( Nothing on the outside of the drive, hinting
at the contents.
There was an announcement, that the industry would be completely 4K sector
internally, in a relatively short period of time. So it's not like you
can entirely avoid the topic by careful shopping. Perhaps some legacy
capacity drives, like buying an 80GB, could avoid it, but for any decent
sized drive (500GB single platter or above), you're likely to have
4KB sectors internally. Even if that fact is not printed on the label.
The "512e" concept may be at work inside.
On 10/26/11 00:11, ABC wrote:
> Intel Core duo E4500 2.2G
> Asus P5GC MX/GBL--2G RAM
> running XP sp2
>
> Reliable old machine but recently the cursor would just freeze
> randomly. During the freeze I notice that the HD spins continuously.
> After a few seconds everything goes back to normal.
>
> (Just found out that when it freezes it is not just the cursor, the
> whole system freezes. But it recovers, all the typings are
> "updated"---i.e. the machine remembers what I typed during the
> freeze.)
>
> any clue?
>
> ABC
I have a clue it's called Windows booting up you ****ing moron.
Mouse freezes, HD spins.... 
Linear Mode
